Syncing DAW to Tape Reaper and Fostex R8

[@valleywoodstudio7345]

Good video and explanation - you need more subscribers as you explain with clarity. I've setup my old Fostex E16 to sync with ProTools with Fostex as master for my students to experience working with the limitations of tape. The sync is to enable a safety copy to be tracked into the DAW. This system works - to a fashion! - but the best way is to get the tape machine to lock to the DAW as a master as you unfortunately do get noticeable drift after about 6-7 minutes. The problem is that whilst LTC is locked with transports, resolved to whatever frame rate, the digital needs a word clock master lock too for its PCW and the comparatively high sample rate, so is in a sense the audio is freewheeling. The Fostex 4030 did this - so I'm on the hunt!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! Yes, I only synced shorter songs for the demo so it would be simple enough for the video. I am sure it would have worked better with the MTC-1 that was made for the R8 but it worked relatively well probably due to the small reel size of the R8. The transport doesn't have to handle as much weight as the E-16 so that might be part of the difference. I ran an E-16 for a few years in the early 2000s. Always thought it was a very good sounding machine. I'm not sure why I don't have more subs but I think it's due to the fact I don't advertise or so click bait style videos. I wanted all my subs to be genuinely interested in the topic so we can have a cool community for analog and hybrid mixing that's not over commercialized. Thanks so much for your comment.

[@michaeloconnor1041]

Hi Greetings from Scotland. I bought a Fostex R8 when they came out many moons ago...1989 in my case. I had the machine for around 15 years.and loved the results I got from it. That machine is long gone but only today I purchased another R8. I am so looking forward to revisiting the dozens of master tapes I still have. I am so glad that I found your channel. I am lucky that I have the MTC 1 sync unit too. A friend gave it to me as a gift yeras ago. I am also a long time user of Reaper and found this particular video that you uploaded extremely interesting. These machines are pretty old now and I know that I have taken a chance on purchasing one....I just hope it has been well looked after and I don't have any nasty surprises in store when it arrives in a few days time. I can see that you are a knowledge with regard to old analogue gear and I look forward to watching your videos over the coming weeks. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I know who to come to if I require any assistence. Love that you have created this channel...very appreciated. No hesitation in subscribing. Awesome !

[@TwinCreekAudio]

The R8 is a great machine! It sounds great, is very reliable and easy to work on. I replaced the reel pulleys and fixed a few other things and mine worked perfectly after that. I really appreciate your comments. I work very hard on the videos and always try to help people with their analog setups. I went to college and got a degree in audio engineering shortly before the recording studio business went downhill at the end of the 90s. My goal has always been to use my education to help other people with their analog gear and the techniques I learned. Thanks again!

[@Chevroletcelebrity]

was it a piece of crap or did it turn out ok? the suspense is killing me. 😐

[@coloso71]

Great video! BTW I got an R8 and I do just the opposite, my DAW is the master and the open reel is the slave, syncing with the 4030 synchro, with a perfect match

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I didn't have a synchronizer or I would have done it that way. I'm sure it's much more flexible.

[@Electricowlworks]

Super cool! I'll have to try this with my old Fostex E16 1/2" 16 track machine and Reaper. Thanks so much for sharing. You rock! -*_chaz_*

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I bet it will work well with the E-16. I love those machines too.

[@os3223]

Génial ! I like this video (from Versailles - France)

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I have relatives in France. My family origins are in France as well.

[@michaeloconnor1041]

Thanks!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I really appreciate it and thank so much for watching!

[@louismarinrenaud416]

Thanks for all your videos !

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I'm glad you like them. Thanks so much for watching!

[@louismarinrenaud416]

@@TwinCreekAudio I have a very similar setting (Tascam 58 + TSR 8 reel to reel and Tascam M512 console) so it's very cool to see how you're using it !

[@rager1969]

Good to know that Reaper can provide this functionality (maybe other DAWs). I remember in the 80s/90s that recording FSK to tape allowed control of MIDI devices, usually a keyboard.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I recorded an entire album using FSK and 3 ADATs. I synced the synth with all the tracks programmed into and then I could mute parts and record each to separate tracks for mixing. Actually worked really well. That must have been about 1998.

[@PrantoKoX]

Well done! 👏🏼👍🏻 Old skool - that's the way we'd do it. (BTW you can use the adjacent tape track to record some audio, just make sure it's not a source blasting with high frequencies like a hihat, and keep the recording level not too hot, especially if it's a signal with a lot of low end) On a side note, that Harmony Flying V "copy"sounds GREAT...and better intonated than most Gibsons! 😉💯

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I set this V up myself. It's all original except the tuning machines too. I used to sync to tape out of necessity back in my commercial studio days. It's fun but I'm glad I don't have to do it all the time anymore.

[@franciscoescobedo9699]

Thank you for sharing you knowledge God bless you

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you so much!

[@erikbrul7011]

Very very nice video !

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I love the Fostex R8!

[@Zogger-Rogger]

Nice Video!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you!

[@corystevenponzo7007]

Thats rad! Stepped your studio up a few notches. I didn't even know that was possible.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I hadn't tried before since the 90s with ADATs and a sequencer. It worked pretty well with the R8 and Reaper. There were more settings I could have tweaked but it just kinda works so that was cool. I try to keep upgrading and changing things a lot to keep it interesting. I've been buying, selling and trading gear for years. lol

[@corystevenponzo7007]

@@TwinCreekAudio I've always paid my bills buying selling equipment so I know how it goes. Now I got 40 channels in&out using RME pci, Lucid converters and a Wheatstone Broadcast Console full of transformers. So I decided I wont be selling any of my current gear as Its a DREAM Come True. Awsome VIDEOS G>

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@corystevenponzo7007 thank you! I've been working on the KZbin videos for close to 3 years now. In 2020, I really increased the number of videos because I had so much extra time. I started out just showing cool stuff that I've accumulated over the years and it grew to include mixing videos and now analog gear. I wasn't sure if the R8 master to Reaper would work either. So I tested the theory before making the video. It really does work surprisingly well with minimal effort. I think the fact that I just refurbished the R8 made a difference since it plays very steadily now. With a well maintaining tape machine, things like this are possible. Not sure how many clients would call for something like this but it's a useful tool when you need it.

[@byronlawrence6887]

Well hell yeah brother !!!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you!

[@jubilee1420]

Thanks for sharing! Very interesting

[@TwinCreekAudio]

It was fun using an offer method of synchronizing audio sources. Thanks for watching!

[@aftertheendtimes]

Great demo of sync with daw,..Thanks a lot for great explanation,..the playing was great keep doin it 😃👍💚 Love cheers

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! It's been a few years since I've had to sync anything using older techniques but I'm glad I was able to present it well. I think it's still useful in a lot of production work if you want to use analog equipment. Thanks again!

[@aftertheendtimes]

@@TwinCreekAudio I have a AKAI MG-614, it got Sync so o vill test it Love Cheers dear TCA =)

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@aftertheendtimes I've used the 1214 years ago and it sounded good. I don't remember syncing anything to it but it's great if it has that option. Thanks so much for the comment!

[@ER-yq1lc]

Love Reaper. I love the way drums sound on tape, but mostly recording by myself drums usually come after guitar and bass like in your example so you can't just bounce drums in and play along. This is a great fix. A two way synch box would be great so you could trigger the tape machine from reaper. I just found out about the web address transport controls you can set up in reaper to start/stop/record with your cell phone or a tablet, a two way synch would let you use that feature to put drums to tape. I was just complaining to a friend the other day about having long preroll, running to the drum room, racing to put headphones on and hope I don't screw up the take. Thanks Grady!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! If I had the MTC-1 that Fostex made for the R8, Reaper could control the R8 and the R8 would try to lock to the DAW. I am hoping to get an MTC-1 and try it. Reaper is absolutely the best, most reliable and professional da I've ever used. It seems to have every option and should be able to sync to anything. The Tascam 1/2" 16 tracks also had a synchroniser unit made for them and the narrow gauge formats don't get enough respect. I think they sound great. I love drums on tape too! When I can't do that, I'll use some tape plugins. 😂

[@epromenator]

Great video. Thnx

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you!

[@v_kk90]

Thank you!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thanks for watching! Im always glad when the videos are helpful.

[@hughlindsay4409]

Wow! Thanks for this. I still have my Fostex G16 in storage. I,m going to find some tape and give the machine a whirl.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I used to own a Fostex E16. Always thought it sounded good and was pretty reliable.

[@hughlindsay4409]

We seem to have similar taste in gear, I have a Soundcraft DC 2020 which is in the process of being overhauled by a good friend and tech expert, why Soundcraft saw fit to put a computer in charge of the desk operation without an override switch beats me.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@hughlindsay4409 I was lucky when I found my Sapphyre that is was the model with no automation though it does have mute groups. The DC 2020 is supposed to be a great sounding console too. I'm obviously a huge Soundcraft fan. I've owned a Ghost, a Live 4.2, and my Sapphyre. I'm still looking for a Series II or 3 to be a more vintage sidecar for the Sapphyre as well.

[@c.m.obrecht]

How about fast forward/rewind, does the DAW start at the same position then? I have a 4050 but never tried this 🙊🙊🙈

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Yes, Reaper will jump to where the tape is when it starts playing again and receives time code. The tape machine is the master here in this simple setup. With a synchronizer, you can probably make the tape follow.the DAW according to the synchronizers instructions and where the machine has control connections.

[@c.m.obrecht]

@@TwinCreekAudio Cool :)

[@analogstandard4524]

Great channel! Very informative and inspiring stuff...thanks!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! It's a lot of work making videos with analog gear but I enjoy it a lot

[@TheLordcasio]

Thanks for this...are those some old school Echo Layla firewire interfaces sitting in the bottom of your rack? I have WAY too many of those.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Very close to the Layla, they are Echo Audiofire interfaces. 2 AF 12s and 1 AF 8. I use the 2 AF 12 together and the 8 with a separate DAW to capture console outputs or auxillary outputs etc. Echo actually updated the drivers for the Audiofires so they will work on macOS up to Monterey and Windows 10. I love them because of the way they work. They also sound good.

[@stefanpaul4181]

I think this is the video I've been looking for! I used to record on my Tascam 424, a nice 4-track cassette machine. But recording my 3-piece band on there has some major limitations. So we've been using a Zoom R16 then dump those tracks to Reaper and do overdubs and vocals on the computer. But I'd like to get the tape sound with the 424 and make useable with the best of both worlds approach. I once tried to bounce a digital track from Reaper into the 424 to get that "tape sound." I tried this with the drums first. I played the DAW drums into the 424, then bounced the 424 cassette tracks into Reaper and tried to A/B compare the DAW vs. tape sound. But the 3-minute song is now 10 seconds shorter on the cassette. I don't get it. When the digital and tape tracks are played together it starts to drift to the point when it sounds like a little delay and then the difference is so great it's unusable. Maybe we can master the digital tracks on the tape machine. Thanks for the video! I didn't know Reaper had the external time code snych feature. Love using Reaper, I just wish the controls looked more like knobs on outboard gear. I'm more of a "turn the knobs til it sounds good" kind of guy.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Analog tape formats drift a bit like that. Sync can work but transfers need to be all tracks at the same time due to this drift. More expensive tape machines will likely have less drift as well as machines that are well maintained. I believe time code will still work with high speed cassette especially. Make sure not to use noise reduction like dbx or Dolby on the sync tracks though. The Tascam 688 midi studio is made for this and might give you more if the bottons and knobs type control you like. Be mindful that if the 424 is drifting too much then using sink with the DAW following the tape machine might cause unwanted digital artifacts as the DAW struggles to vary the audio to keep in sync. In most cases, the software like Reaper can correct for this and there are even some settings that can be fine-tuned, however an extreme cases, digital artifacts could become a major issue. The Fostex R8 seems to work really well for sync as it was built with syncing to MIDI in mind and also uses small 7-in reels so the transport is very quick and responsive. I guess this quickness and responsiveness also helps it to stay in sync with an incoming time code source. If I had the MTC-1 synchronizer for my R8, then the R8 could chase the DAW which would avoid any kind of digital artifacts at the expense of possible analog artifacts from the tape speeding up or slowing down to stay in sync. Lol! It's a crazy world when you start syncing things like this. Gives you a lot of respect for how this was done in the old days when it was the only way.

[@stefanpaul4181]

@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the info! Transferring the entire track is def the way to go. Maybe we can dump the music track from the DAW into the 424 and then cut the vocals on the 424 and then dump all that back into the DAW for whatever else we need to add. Tape and limited inputs force us to not mic every inch of the drum kit, but it still sounds pretty good. (even the digital Zoom R16 can only record 8 tracks at once - so with a live scratch guitar, scratch bass and scratch lead vocal track and a click, that leaves four to five inputs for the drum kit, but the R16 has 2 nice built-in condenser mics that we use to capture the room). I run all the real mics through a preamp or compressor before it hits the R16, so there is some outboard gear involved, and it's essentially treating the R16 or DAW like a tape machine. It just captures what we put into it. I just wish I could turn the EQ knobs and faders on a real board to control what happens in Reaper in real time, or at least for some kind of mixdown. I'm seriously considering getting a Tascam Model 12, 16, or 24 and just say to hell with tape (even though I still love the sound). Thanks!

[@nathanielweise9932]

Awesome content.

[@drfonta]

Saw in the video to turn Dolby NR off when striping the tape. Do you turn it back on when recording the audio tracks? I set this up and it worked ok with Dolby on when I tried it but that was just an hour or so of playing with it.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

The manual doesn't say to turn the Dolby off specifically so it should work with it ON. I think I was having trouble getting it to work and tried without Dolby. You really can't use the R8 without the Dolby as it's too noisy. I sold my R8 a year or so ago or I would have a better answer. I know some multitracks had a switch to turn Dolby off for just one track.

[@drfonta]

@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for that. I got one in near new condition and am changing out the plastic suspect parts with metal ones. Actually works very well! Just want to do hybrid recording with 5 or 6 analog tape tracks and the rest in Logic. I also have a Tascam 238 that I like alot. Thanks for the videos!

[@wehappyfewmusic]

Interesting video and very informative! Would the timing start to drift a bit with this method on a longer track, or does reaper follow the tape sync track and adjust itself accordingly?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

This may work better with a synchronizer that can control the tape machine but Reaper will follow the tape reasonably well and it has settings for different algorithms for time stretching the digital audio if needed. I didn't notice much correction going on. This probably works better on shorter material but it works well enough. I wondered if with a synchronizer if it would affect the pitch of tape tracks while I know digital wont change pitch but may have other artifacts trying to sync. Interesting stuff for sure.

[@nicwahter]

@@TwinCreekAudio hello i have a question that would be big help if you can help solve. so i have a Teac 80-8. No sync built in to the tape machine. Basically what i want to do is record 6-7 tracks on the 8 track, bounce them into reaper and then record more tracks on the tape while my other tracks on reaper are in sync with the tape. i tried your method with this video, and it almost works but im having an issue. i recorded a 2 min demo song to get it a try. So i recorded an LTC onto track 8, around -5 DB. I filled up 6 channels on my tape with drums, synth, bass guitar. i bounced those 6 tracks onto reaper. My issue is this. i kept synchronization enabled, and press play on my tape machine which enabled play on reaper. i listen to the tracks from Reaper and compared the drums that are still on tape to the drums that i bounced from tape to reaper. i noticed that when it plays, very slowly it goes off time. like the drums from the DAW after a while start to drift out of time. I'm wondering if you have any ideas, soultions? i noticed in your comment you said "Reaper will follow the tape reasonably well and it has settings for different algorithms for time stretching the digital audio if needed." so maybe there is a way to work around this?? I just want to be able to re-use the tracks on my tape. so fill up 6-7 tracks, bounce to reaper and then record more on my tape machine, playing along with the first set i bounced into reaper. let me know if make sense. this will be a huge help!! Thank you!

[@dannydaniel8975]

Will this work with Cubase and a tascam 688 cassette recorder (which has build in midi ports and a built in tape sync on board)? I bought a JL cooper Fsk Mtc box..Cubase has a built in smpte generator but I could not get it to work with my 688.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I think the 688 is designed to work with MTC and not SMPTE. I have never used one before but from what I understand you would use the MIDI ports on the 688 to sync to a MIDI sequencer. I would think cubase would be able to use MTC this way. I used to use a JL Cooper PPS model back in the day to sync sequencers to ADAT as well and it worked pretty well. I'm pretty sure it used FSK too but it was a different model than yours. I think the 688 manual would be your best resource to get this working. Just substitute cubase where they are talking about sequencers in the manual.

[@dannydaniel8975]

@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks...I just downloaded the 688 manual, and oddly, it mentions SMPTE,

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@dannydaniel8975 It may support it then. I only knew for sure that it would support MTC since that's what it seems to have been made for. Let me know if it works for you.

[@dannydaniel8975]

@@TwinCreekAudio Will do. But you know, I was thinking, if it has built in midi ports, and a tape sync and my audio interface has midi ports, what else would I need? I mean, theoretically, it has to work. But you never know...right?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@dannydaniel8975 yes, I would think it should work that way. It might take some trial and error and the transport on the 688 needs to be really stable.

[@domdraper3221]

Nice

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you!

[@limbophonic1]

Hi, I'm trying to do similar thing, I have a number of songs on tape, fostex R8 machine, there is 7 tracks of music plus track 1 MTC, this timecode was originally generated by my Roland MC50 sequencer, my task is transfer these songs to reaper, but was hoping to use external sync , I tried options/ external timecode sync, and using track 1 as input, tried various frame rates as well , but when I hit reaper record, it is waiting for timecode, I hit fostex play, but reaper doesn't record, can you advise please,

[@TwinCreekAudio]

You might need the MTC-1 synchronizer that Fostex made for the R8. Are you still syncing a synth to the recorded tracks and want to transfer them to simultaneously? If not, then you could probably just do a straight transfer of the eight tracks and that would also keep the original MTC time code but it would be recorded to digital.

[@limbophonic1]

@@TwinCreekAudio hi I have transferred all audio to reaper, but my original aim was to sync reaper to the tapes time code, so during transfer it would be recorded at the correct tempo , I want to remix these old songs, so I will need to find the correct tempo of each song before remixes, does this make sense?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@limbophonic1 try to find an MTC-1 synchronizer. That will make transferring in sync pretty easy supposedly. I have never tried it myself as I don't have a synchronizer.

[@BeesWaxMinder]

Can I sync my FostexA8 to REAPER without any External Gadget/Gizmo?!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@BeesWaxMinder maybe but I have never tried it with an A8. I think it should work the same way but the R8 is newer and may have a more stable transport.

[@blaowrecordings8885]

Do you know if I can do this in Logic Pro X?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Yes, you should be able to. To sync Logic Pro X to SMPTE, you can use the General Synchronization pane in the Advanced settings. This pane allows you to link the absolute time display (SMPTE) to the bars and beats display. The tape machine needs to be in good condition with proper setup, calibration and tension for it work well though.

[@greenbranch2936]

It was cool! Thanks for this tutorial. Can this technique work with another tape recorder like Tascam 38? Also, is Fostex R8 a reliable machine?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Those are great questions. Yes, if the tape machine is in good condition and there are no speed issues, it should work with most tape machines. Make sure to turn off the noise reduction Dolby or dbx on the sync track though. The R8 is a very reliable machine overall thought the plastic reel pulleys can get old and crack so replacing them makes the machine more reliable. The good thing is that the R8 is pretty easy to work on. Replacing the capstan belt and the reel pulleys was really easy on mine. They are really well designed and easy to get into for maintenance. I have been really impressed with my R8. It sounds better than it should with 1/4" tape. The 38 is also a good machine but an older design but wider tape. The Fostex Model 80 or E-8 are other good Fostex options with the Model 80 having less features and the E-8 a less known 8 track version of the E-16 and it's much larger than the 80 or the R8. Tascam also made some great models like the 38, 48, and 58 with the 48 and 58 being balanced I/O but similar to the 38 with more features.

[@greenbranch2936]

@@TwinCreekAudio Wow, what a response! Thank you for your time! I thought Fostex R8 take larger tape like 1/2" Do larger tape for 8 track recorder sounds better? Do you know if there is a difference in sound quality between for example Tascam 38 and Fostex R8?

[@retropeanutlad]

Hey Grady, Thanks for the informative video! I have a fostex x-30 4-track cassette machine that I want to record tracks independently into Reaper with, and I just have a couple questions about getting this set up in my home studio: -When I record the timecode onto a track on my machine, do I need to keep that track with the timecode on it during the whole recording process, giving me only 3 tracks on my machine? Like when you recorded that, did you only have 7 tracks available to record on your R8? -For the drums you recorded, did it record simultaneously into the R8 and Reaper, or did you need to record to the R8 first and then bounce to reaper later? I essentially just want to use my x-30 to record each of the tracks into Reaper independently and simultaneously without having any timing issues inside the DAW. Is this possible if I follow all the steps in this video? Thanks so much! -Dalton

[@TwinCreekAudio]

My first 4 track was an X-30. I still have tapes I recorded with it. You don't need to keep the time code for any reason once you are done recording the items you synced unless you're wanting to use the time code later. The X-30 has 4 separate track outputs which should make it really easy to transfer all 4 tracks simultaneously. This will definitely avoid any sync issue since they are all playing back at the same time. Once they're in the DAW, anything else added will also stay in sync if they were recorded to the original tracks that were transferred. When I made the video about the R8, I printed the output of the console I was monitoring through to Reaper at the same time as I was recording to tape. I had intended to use the Reaper digital recordings since the digital would likely sync with the video better however I ended up using a number of the analog tracks that I transferred later as the R8 turned out to be very steady and caused no timing issues when syncing to video. Almost all of the audio in my videos is recorded through the studio equipment, microphones, preamps etc. The camera audio from the one or two cameras I will use is just used to sync the other audio from the higher quality devices. I hope that makes sense and helps you out. I'm not sure I understand how you're using the time code on the X-30 so feel free to let me know if you need any more detail. Thanks again and enjoy your X-30. That was the machine that started my whole recording journey in the late 1980s in my parents barn!

[@retropeanutlad]

@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the detailed response! My intention is to use the x-30 on the front end of my DAW, kind of like a channel strip/preamp before my interface so I can record my parts through the x-30 and into Reaper one at a time. So the signal flow would be instrument/mic ---> x-30 ---> interface ---> Reaper, and then I could record each track separately into the DAW, rewind the tape, and overdub as I would normally with just the interface. I'm assuming what you're saying is recording a full session into the x-30, and then dumping the tracks into Reaper at the same time? I'm open to that, but I want to see if I can get more tracks out of using the x-30 and Reaper together in the way I described above. I'm not too sure if that's possible, and I'm wondering if syncing them would make it possible.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@retropeanutlad it might be possible. You'd have to sync the X-30 to the DAW using SMTE like I did with the R8 and when you are done recording the analog tracks, transfer them back into the DAW individually or mixed together using the x30. Whether it will work well or not depends on how steady the speed is on your x30. It was no problem with the R8 however the x30 runs at a lower speed. I would imagine it has more to do with the condition though.

[@retropeanutlad]

@@TwinCreekAudio Gotcha. Thanks so much!

[@mirkomarkovic3438]

i was very excited but sadly it's always resyncing and stopping playback

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Leave a track in between the sync track and audio tracks. Then you can print the timecode a little hotter. Make sure noise reduction is off at least for the sync track. As long as the frame rate matches, it should work. Inconsistencies in the transport may also cost problems as well as tape with dropouts and things like that.