(Drive-able) CyberCab VS Aptera

[@craigmerrow225]

I have an Aptera reservation, and really excited to see the PI builds coming together. It's been a long process for them, but very impressive when you consider what they have accomplished on a shoestring budget.

[@RivMike205]

Aptera’s support of right to repair is a major factor in my differentiating Aptera from Tesla. At this point I can’t be sure how the consumer will be supported by Aptera, but I am very interested how this comes out.

[@southerncyan4098]

I hope they consider including air bags/compatibility in the future, and other mods like for heated/cooled seats I hope they make an official rollout for~

[@jacksonburger2081]

I didn't even think about this, but you could probably upgrade your car as you go along! I know Aptera isn't doing heat-pump on their first model, but since they support rtr, you can probably (hopefully) upgrade after. That would be DOPE!!!!!! Literally perfect car.

[@codespanker]

And what is crazy and frustrating is for the amount of money Tesla spent on the 10/10 event, Altera could fund the next 2000 cars of production

[@BlindedByLogic]

Aptera is far more exciting because it would solve the charging infrastructure problem for a lot of people... I would basically never have to refuel again. ALSO, if Aptera is successful, I suspect China will copy the design and can deliver a solar EVs to the developing world. That will completely change humanity for those who don't have access to electric infrastructure to charge. Autonomous cars and buses already exist in China and with Waymo. I would be cool Tesla figured out autonomy too at a cheaper cost, but they're trying to solve a problem that others have already solved... it's just a matter if regulations will allow for FSD on a larger scale. Both are revolutionary, but solar EVs will revolutionize everything if they can be successful.

[@garywozniak7742]

FSD is not "there" yet. It will probably take years.

[@oj9886]

It can’t charge to full just using solar .. it doesn’t work like that

[@aurora9726]

Solar charging barely does any charging

[@Harrythehun]

Solar power with today's technology isn't great but in a couple of years and better technology will be a thing.

[@nomercy4521]

@@oj9886 Why can it not fully charge using solar?

[@benjaminnead8557]

My vote strongly goes to Aptera, for all the reasons you mention here. Yes, Aptera is embracing a Right To Repair philosophy, where Tesla never did and never will. Also, didn't Gavin Newsom just sign a bill stating that all EVs sold in California have to be equipped with bidirectional charging (V2X) from 2027 moving forward? That's another blow to the Cybercab's "no cables allowed" induction-only charging. Before we ever see a human driven (much less an individual human owned) Cybercab with a steering wheel and pedals, Aptera will have been here for years. We'll also see very soon, on a more mainstream level, a relaunched Chevy Bolt with an LFP pack that will probably be available for $25K or less. The Chinese are another factor. They will probably have to build a factory here before we can buy, say, a BYD Dolphin in the US. But that's only a matter of time. The only other thing I have to advance is a personal dislike of Elon that only grows stronger with each passing day. And I'm sure I'm not the only long time electric vehicle advocate in that camp. I'll leave it at that.

[@toyotaprius79]

Aptera by miles

[@glike2]

They both will compete but I suspect Aptera will be available sooner, that is if the Cyber cab is available to buy at all for retail consumers and not just rentals

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

"They both will compete" For what should they compete?

[@glike2]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 different markets

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@glike2 Different customers, different markets. Yes

[@garywozniak7742]

I'm a big Aptera fan and you did a great job of making the case for it. I think the cost of both vehicles will be a factor. If whatever the driveable version of Tesla's smaller car is going to be called is cheaper, by lets say $5k, people might look past the efficiency edge that Aptera has. I'm hoping Aptera makes it and that the efficiency and solar charge projections they have made are real. I'd even be comfortable with the 250 mile battery version. It would be a bit lighter, cheaper, and even more efficient. I also don't want to pay the extra $8k or $10k for FSD, or $100/month for the subscription version. Aptera is planning to use OpenPilot. It is much lower cost and provides the level of driver assist that I'm interested in at the right price point. And I like the fact that it is opensource.

[@tyranelewis7763]

💯 Aptera for the reasons you said!!!!

[@daryltemporary]

and no elon :)

[@duncancairncross]

Back in 1998 as an engineer with 20 year of experience in the automotive industry, I was "volunteered" by my boss to help the local High School with their solar racer at that point I was sure that something like the Aptera - and there were several predecessors - was ideal Then I actually studied "Low Drag Vehicles" - and I found that the Aptera concept is NOT NOT NOT a good one for low drag And our solar racer won the "World Championship" Then in the early 2000s I was designing my (very basic) electric sports car - I looked at a three wheeled layout but it was really bad from a space POV - you needed a much larger vehicle to get the two seats I wanted We can see that with the Aptera - its eight inches WIDER than the CyberTruck!!! - its bloody HUGE - and its only a two seater The ADVANTAGE of a three wheel layout is that it sidesteps all of the safety laws - NOT an advantage for the poor suckers driving it

[@bobhellman8676]

@duncancairncross I'm sorry I only had one up-vote to give you for your comment!

[@ΒύρωναςΛαδιάς]

Yea it can’t be safe

[@Angus4277]

Just imagine a tiny 2 seater hatchback version of the Telo vehicle. that would be AWESOME!

[@stevendunn264]

When the 30K (50K on release) model 2 comes out it will have 4 seats.

[@jamesengland7461]

Cybercab is designed for autonomous taxi use, so the inductive charging may only be for that model, and it has very narrow tires and flat seats, suggesting that it won't be quick or fast, or designed for sporty driving, as one would expect from a taxi. This will enhance efficiency. They didn't forget to have cabin access to the trunk; they walled it off for a reason. This could allow for a lighter, stronger structure, obviously no back windows are needed, and perhaps they don't want passengers climbing around to the back while underway? Just guessing on that last part. A customer- car version may change several of these aspects. I personally think it would be cool, since the car needs no controls, to offer interesting alternative controls, like joysticks, foot controls, gaming controls. Aptera is clearly the more exciting and efficient car, but who knows if a customer version of this Cybercab might be designed to be more sporty. Aptera is still my favorite!

[@johnbullers8647]

Aptera!

[@user-yj9cm5kj5u]

The CyberCab/CyberCar could also have solar panels on the roof back hatch area. This could technically be done since there’s no rear window.

[@charangohabsburg1]

Years ago Elon said that solar panels on a car would not make sense. Sadly, re-evaluating and even changing his own opinion would hurt his small blustered ego more than he can take.

[@Wordsmiths]

@@charangohabsburg1 Elon’s ego seems to blind him only to sociopolitical and interpersonal issues, not engineering issues. He has changed his mind and welcomed pushback in lots of things regarding SpaceX’s engineering challenges and many Tesla engineering details too. (Sandy Munro points this out at length in several videos, te: Tesla; I know from personal networking about many Falcon, Merlin, Raptor, Starship and “Stage Zero” changes Elon has welcomed because of critique and feedback. Tim Dodd recorded one such example that happened in real time, due to a question Tim asked while interviewing Elon, about ullage pressurization) Solar photovoltaic panels don’t make much sense for the S3XY cars because their roofs & trunks are relatively narrow and small, bounded by glass. Tesla made certain fundamental design decisions that just leave so little room for sky-facing panels that the benefit is just too small to justify the cost. (Maximizing profit per vehicle is a design decision too). The solar panels might make sense on a Cybertruck or Cybervan, which have plenty of panel-ready surfaces, but which have such huge battery packs that solar “trickle charging” might not make much difference for daily drivers. The Aptera, though, was designed and engineered from the beginning to make the most of solar charging. For Aptera, it will be a significant factor in ways it will never be for the S3XY lineup, and probably the Cyber lineup too when there is one.

[@jacksonburger2081]

Wouldn't really make sense tho. Aptera can only do it because they get 10 miles per kilowatt. You might only get 5-10 miles on the cybercab.

[@jacksonburger2081]

​@@charangohabsburg1tbf tho, he lost BIG on Twitter. That's def a blow to his ego. Also, started running ads. (Don't think he'll ever do solar still, but who know with him)

[@TecnamTwin]

Yes! This is the video I was looking for. Thank you. And yeah, the Aptera is clearly superior as a car BUT repairs and replacements would be a challenge for a few years and its software and infotainment are unknowns.

[@keithjacobson4493]

I’m very supportive of Aptera as an investor and mid 20k reservation holder. I did originally expect my vehicle about now so I did lease an EV6 for a couple years. But that has been a nice introduction to EV driving.

[@danharold3087]

Just as the original Ford Mustang is built on the Falcon platform I see a model 2 being built on the cyberCab platform. They can and need to be very different presentations. While some maybe happy owing a non taxi cybercab Tesla will sell millions more cars if they build the 2 to attract buyers.

[@craigarnold1212]

So since making this you may have seen the vid of Sandy M looking at a CC and talking to the engineers. When he walked back towards the crowd someone asked what he thought. He said the body is made of carbon fiber! So one other thing in common, smc body. I made the assumption that was the case when the cybertruck bed turned out to be cf-smc. It is the way to disrupt the assemble line because the body parts are consistent within microns and do not bend and twist like steel. You don't need a hammer to make it line up. I was thinking they would be more like 7 miles per kW. To me the only thing that reminds me of the cybertruck is on the backend of the cab. Which creates a lot of drag as you noted, but no mirrors. I think Aptera has about 0.02 drag because of theirs. The Aptera is a drivers car, cybercab is a nanny at best with limited range. This is going to take a long time to get each state to allow it. In each states legislature which will more than likely set up who is liable for what. They may foresee a lot of jobs disappearing and figure out they need to tax automation just to cover lost wage taxes or sales tax as fewer people will have a job to buy much at all. But it will need to be a lot more than that...

[@concentricholdings6029]

I believe the CyberCab wall is structural at this point… Charge Port can easily be added for individually owned vehicles.

[@ab3000x]

i definitely like the Aptera more for all the same reasons plus I’d rather spend my money with Steve and Chris than Elon.

[@santanumaitra3962]

I agree in general and believe Tesla's 2-door, 2-seater Robotaxi may help validate Aptera's format that I have been concerned about. Every time I drive our 2000 Insight, I am reminded what can happen to a 2-seater, 2-door car in the USA.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

I believe Aptera will begin low volume shipping next year. There is no way that the Cyber Cab is going to ship before 2028 or 2029, despite Elon's promises.

[@bluetoad2668]

Even Aptera say they won't deliver anything until 2026 but based on their track record they will never deliver a vehicle.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

@@bluetoad2668 Aptera has one vehicle, so we don't have a "track record". Tesla, on the other hand, does, and they have consistently delivered much later than promised and at significantly higher price. So....

[@bluetoad2668]

@@JustWasted3HoursHere so...Tesla deliver and Aptera doesn't, by the way the Model Y (best selling Tesla vehicle so far) was delivered early and cost about what they said. Oh, and Aptera have zero vehicles in production, not one.

[@robwalker4548]

You hit on many of the same points of why I prefer the Aptera. That does not mean I have been convinced yet that Aptera will have long term durability like my Toyotas and hard to believe it myself but even with my 17 years now Jk Jeep that has seen some hard trails over the years that I know I can never take my Aptera to. I optioned the over package for the Aptera just for the bad pavement in our areas and I still suspect those wheel shirts on the Aptera are going to end up being a common item being damaged. The other Aptera durability point I worry about is the same thing I think is cool - those doors. While cool I fear the doors long term might have issues long term ans source of wind noise. I am not sure because it could be lighting in filming but the passenger door on one early test build goes not appear to close flush with the body.

[@bobhellman8676]

- The closest concept out there to what a RoboTaxi should be is the Telo MT-1. - They (Telo) may be all about their compact truck for those of us that appreciate that and ordered one, but there are more options for that platform and thinking. It is as volumetric efficient as the Aptera isn't. At all. - A 2-seater approach to a ride service is as fringe as it is to the mainstream vehicle world. - Conversely, a Tesla 2-seater (given that their 4-seater is already down to $34K) could be very popular @ $26-28K base (but with the same long range, dual motor, and performance variants of its sisters). - On the Tesla, I could not find dimensions anywhere, but it appears larger than necessary for a coupe. I'm a CRX Si fan as that did everything I needed it to do when I was not in family mode. Let's say for a M2P: 95" wheelbase, 70" wide max, 150" long max. On Aptera, it's game over. - The 88" wide over the cosmetic wheel pants is a worldwide deal breaker (metro US and anywhere in the EU, UK.) It shows how shortsighted their design team was/is. Sidebar: Drew: How in God's name can you stand next to the Telo crew intelligently explaining why a truck the size of a Mini Cooper is a move forward, and then stand next to the behemoth width 2-seat Aptera and think there's an excuse for that? Or maybe ask them where's the actual worst place to put a large and inviting cargo area on a consumer 3-wheeler? Only a group as ignorant as Aptera would choose to combine the 2 worst paths in a single 3-wheeler. - The $150 mil spent, has never had the development of the product as a priority. No full system mules, no real testing since Beta, no continual improvement in partnership with the eventual vendors, no intelligent designing for the price point, no effort on the manufacturing front. Total cupboard bare as regards what viable manufacturers consider prepping for production. - The lack of test data speaks for itself, as does the $30K USCG BOM. They are not going to be viable @ even 2X the current LE price. - Simple math, if they got their overhead down to $1 mil./month and build 60 vehicles next year, that's $300K each. - Who is going to cover their losses? - And where are they headed? And how much does it take to keep them on that heading? And what's behind the oncoming headlight when they get there? It's over. They lost the farm in '21, sorry.

[@mimo5383]

This is why I'm considering a Fiat 500e Arbarth down here in Sydney as my first EV. Owning a Subaru BRZ I'm only interested in a light weight, two door sporty fun little EV and the Arbarth is all we have for now. Its FWD only weighs 1335kg, looks cool (in that acid green) and is built in Italy, which explains part of its eye watering price (for what it is). Price aside, its perfect as a small, fun city car, with 0-60 of 7sec and 253km range. Sadly I believe the US will not see the Arbarth model, but oddly AU has it, so yay us!

[@MichaelMillerJ]

With Aptera I will be excited if it even ships at scale. Hopeful, but in reality this isn't the first time they've tried this. We'll see.

[@WolfX1120]

Tesla is looking more and more like Apple, and Aptera, Alpha Motors and TELO Trucks is looking more and more like Microsoft... I very much prefer Microsoft over Apple.

[@Harrythehun]

Microsoft, yikes.

[@WolfX1120]

@@Harrythehun I didn't say i was a fan... I said i prefer Microsoft... Apple is way too controlling of it's products, I look at that Tesla like an iPhone, a great product but no overall choice in layout or added features, I had iPhone and i hated it, Now i have a Samsung Galaxy s22 and it's way more customizable and it's less controlled, and features I like aren't disappearing off of it like they did on the iPhone... That is the comparison i am making here.

[@jacksonburger2081]

​@@WolfX1120would compare more to framework than Microsoft.

[@witext]

I’ve been hyped for aptera for a long time, it’s such a good concept & it will be perfect on European roads that are sadly being overtaken with American style cars cuz ”bigger is better” or smth dumb like that We really need a small car revolution & I think aptera it’s part of the solution

[@DanaVastman]

Great contrast and comparison! I've been following Aptera since it was first introduced 20 years ago. As a Model Y owner I would love one. Keep hoping it will come out soon. I no longer have faith that Elon is driving Tesla in the right direction. Plus I cannot stand his radicalized lying propaganda anymore. He was my greatest hero but I now realize we've all been deceived. Maga? The final straw. While I love all the amazing people who have created Tesla products..😢. I now consider their CEO to be a little more than a psychopathic traitor. I'll continue enjoying my Model Y with its amazing FSD but I will never buy another product from an Elon company.

[@harriettanthony7352]

This comment about Mr. Musk is amazing and heard often. As long he was an obedient , quiet Democrat; the whole world loved him. As soon as he abandoned the Commies; suddenly he is labeled Public Enemy Number One. And worse, a 'flock of two legged sheep' heard CNN give the 'hate Elon' order and followed it. Just like lemmings over the cliffs and into the sea. How about people THINK for themselves for once. Mr. Musk IS the Henry Ford of our Era, there would be NO EVs without him.

[@slowercuber7767]

17:31 Oh yeah, baby! Aptera's advertised attitude toward right-to-repair is a huge plus. Not that I'd be working on mine that much, regardless, but it is in principle possible for any mechanic to use the info and parts available from Aptera to fix just about anything on the car. I've heard Tesla is getting better about its support for third party maintenance, but Aptera has been claiming it is open to it from day one, or day negative one, perhaps.

[@outlawNumberone]

I love these beast's and will likely buy one , mainly cause it's NOT a car , it's a bike . Three wheels licenses it as a bike . NO license needed. No driver licence , and if the fed changed that already then it's Anarcy coming! Revolution CALLING YOU !!!! Yes, Geoff Tate is my voice coach!!!!!!

[@johnpoldo8817]

I’ll buy whichever is available first. Both are excellent.

[@juliahello6673]

They are both efficient in different ways. Aptera is efficient in energy per mile and even more because the solar will supply most or all of your energy. The Cybercab is efficient because if it is used as a cab one Cybercab will displace 5-10 ICE.

[@glennturner1057]

Just as I finished watching this, an Aptera update was put out on UTUBE stating Aptera now won’t be released until 2026. Go figure! Tesla has a chance to get theirs out first.

[@jackstrange6360]

One thing I don’t see mentioned in favor of Aptera is the FSD drawback where 1) sometimes the navigation takes you weird or incorrect paths and 2) navigation won’t be able to work on all roads (ie camping or dirt paths)

[@joshuarosen465]

I've had an Aptera reservation for several years and I'm on my second Model 3 so I have a foot in both camps. Aptera has moved their deliveries to 2026 and the Model 2 hasn't been announced yet so it's an unknown as to which vehicle will happen first and the final specs for both are still guesses. If Model 2 ever happens and it's a Cybercab with a steering wheel then my guess is that's it's efficiency will be much better than 6.5 miles per KWh and the Aptera is going to be less than 10MpKWh. My new Model 3 has gotten 208 WH per mile over it's 3500 miles life and over the last 1400 miles it's getting 200Wh per mile, that's 5 miles per KWh in a 4000lb car. The Cybercab is composite like the Aptera so it's weight will be much closer to the Aptera then to the Model 3. It looks pretty aerodynamic, might not be as good as the Aptera but still better than the Model 3. My completely unscientific guess is that a Model 2, if it ever happens, will be closer to 8 miles per KWh then to 6. As of Aptera's solar panel, that's a California centric thing. It worthless outside of the South. I live in Massachusetts, I'm attracted to the Aptera by its efficiency not the solar. I don't think the solar panels will do anything for me. We have trees in the summer and we have a long winter. There is a mighty oak shading my driveway, I barely get enough sunlight to charge my solar lights in the summer and they don't work at all in the winter. What's more most people keep their cars in a garage in the winter, I don't have a garage so I use a car cover. Either way there is no solar energy to be had.

[@slowercuber7767]

16:41 Aptera better for road tripping? For me it would depend heavily on how good its ADAs was. I am a big fan of Autopilot (beta plus TACC of course) and FSD (supervised). Simple lane holding with TACC is my minimal requirement for any car I ever drive on a long trip, and I prefer one with Tesla's FSD (though I acknowledge it's flaws and that its kryptonite seems to be tire-popping-potholes and possibly other road hazards, thanks for that video which you shared discussing your experience).

[@royying]

I think Aptera is the new Honda Insight, CyberCab is the new Toyota Prius.

[@slowercuber7767]

As far as I know, Tesla has not said that the rumored "model-2" will have any components in common with the cybercab. The Cybercab is optimized for providing safe, cheap, autonomous transport for passengers, and Tesla seems to be resisting the idea of cluttering it with things (like charging ports, steering wheels, rear view mirrors, etc) which might be desirable in a driven vehicle but otherwise totally superfluous. We'll need to wait for Tesla to reveal its budget driveable vehicle before we can meaningfully compare it with the Aptera. Even so, at 11:41 I'm enjoying your vid, as always.

[@boroqcat]

If Elon was serious he would just fund Aptera in exchange for being named cofounder and be done. 😂😂

[@robertkirchner7981]

God help Aptera if he did.

[@jacksonburger2081]

He would lose the company 36 billion dollars in two years if he did tho.

[@boroqcat]

@@jacksonburger2081 😂😂

[@JaceTran]

Both are beautifull❤ I will buy both, Aptera for me and Model 2 for my wife

[@didierpuzenat7280]

In Europe, the CyberCab would be great while the Aptera would be almost impossible to drive. But I guess in the US streets are way larger so no issue.

[@chilis_guest_wifi]

You can’t make an efficiency argument for the tesla without accounting for how inefficient the wireless charging is compared to wired charging.

[@TailosiveEV]

You haven’t researched EV wireless charging have you? Watch Bjorn Nylands video

[@chilis_guest_wifi]

@@TailosiveEV yeah, I did watch it and wasn’t impressed. They were charging at like 52 kW and the charger was using like 63 kW, so thats a lot of loss. There is no way it can be as efficient as wired charging, and even a difference of like 10% efficiency can scale up to a massive number

[@stuwilliams3035]

With more aptera delays, wish there was a Tesla version of the old Honda CRX...small and ready to go with long range. The cybercab with steering and pedals, and a big ass battery would be my buy and stop waiting for my aptera unicorn.

[@MegaLokopo]

In some states pregnant women driving alone count as a high occupancy vehicle. Even if they are driving to the abortion clinic.

[@ThomasShields-s1v]

And?

[@jacksonburger2081]

Proof? Would love to see this hold up on court.

[@StevenGresser]

I would love to see Tesla build a two door 4 seat cross between the Robotaxi and the Y. I had a Ford Explorer Sport back in the day and loved it.

[@darwinskeeper421]

This may not be a competition. Has Tesla even announced that a consumer version of the CyberCab, a CyberCommuter if you will, will be offered? If it is, we can only guess at how this car will differ from its cab counterpart. Aptera has been far more open about their plans, so I can be pretty sure what I might be getting if I were to pony up for one. The only advantages I could see the Tesla have are trunk space, initial price and possibly safety. Beyond that, Aptera is the GOAT here.

[@apterasolar]

Is the RBTX even a competitor? Great comparison: ADVANTAGE Aptera!

[@ronaldclarkson1146]

So, you're saying these are nice ideas, but wait, and wait...

[@DenieBernier]

Cybercab… or the model they release based on this with a steering wheel and pedals ( they can’t talk about it right now because of the Osborne effect on their current model 3 and Y). Again, I wish you and Aptera good luck to actually see production. You remain quite the optimist- a good personality trait.

[@h20dancing18]

Are you implying that the models will overlap too much and Aptera can’t compete? Take a look at how many suv models there are. 30+? And almost all of them are profitable and sell well enough to cover their own rnd? It’s not an issue I think. SUVs are just one example but the same is true of all model categories

[@diamond_h0us]

It’s a 2 seater and it’s not a sports car. There’s not a good market for this other than as a taxi so there’s no reason for a steering wheel equipped model.

[@wesdiezy]

Tesla should totally cover the robocab in solar panels. They could easily get 20 miles a day out of that. But I'm still definitely getting an aptera. Can't wait for the freedom of free driving and not relying on any other infrastructure to go places.

[@slowercuber7767]

15:31 I trust my 2023 MY LR AWD to properly maintain its NMC (or NCA, not sure) battery to help it last longer and to be less likely to go all fiery. Even so I'd prefer LFP because I'd rather have the additional safety and potential number of charging cycles than the extra rubber ripping power and longer range energy available with NMC/NCA. I am not yet convinced of Aptera's ability to manage battery temperature and charging, so other things being equal, I would definitely choose the potentially lower power and slower-charging but safer LFP-chemistry-powered vehicle over the car or autocycle with NMC -- at least at this time, may change my mind at any time, but not likely to do so soon.

[@richpalmisano1740]

If Tesla did make the Cybercab as a consumer version (meaning with pedals, steering wheel, charging port) and it had the efficiency it claims (5.5miles/kwh) are real, this vehicle at $25k-30k will be very appealing. It only needs a 250-300 mile range. That will increase the battery size, meaning more weight, thus reducing the efficiency...I dunno. Is the 'cybercab' form factor the Tesla 'model 2'? Likely.

[@Angus4277]

I don't understand why the US Auto market killed off the 2 door hatchback in favor for the much larger SUVs that are being pumped out. I wish that the US Auto market would start investing in a plethora of city cars like they have in England, Japan, and China. I would love a tiny second car.

[@garywozniak7742]

Marketing and possibly the fact the many of us Americans have gotten fatter. The new EV platforms allow for a design that put the rear wheels as far aft as possible giving more rear seat comfort. I've watched reviews of Hyundai's Inster. It has a surprising amount of room for a small car. I could see a two door version working.

[@tonydeveyra4611]

because US automakers couldn't figure out how to make 2 door hatchbacks and other cheap cars profitably. And Chicken taxes prevented the Japanese from bringing in their Kei cars to compete.

[@benjaminnead8557]

I'm still driving my 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV and loving every minute of it.

[@jonevansauthor]

@@garywozniak7742 it's not that they're fatter. My 25 stone (350lbs), 6'2" flatmate had no problems getting in my Smart car. Actually the big puffy jacket he used to wear then was a bigger problem than his obesity, or mine. It's just because their profit margins are higher on an SUV, and Americans are gullible enough to buy that stuff, but no-one has a choice if they stop making and importing small vehicles. Since Ford et al aren't actually good at engineering, they can't make any car profitable at the moment.

[@garywozniak7742]

@jonevansauthor try fitting into the back of seat of 62 VW Beetle

[@teodor4ik183]

CC wall make structural rigidity. It act as safety cage. And yes. If it is used as taxi, you ll have no time to get hairbrush

[@dscarty]

I was excited about the phone booth that Clark Kent stepped into & was transported over the wires to his destination. Talk about efficiency. What, you didn’t see that episode?

[@IndigenousEarthling101]

I think Tesla will likely make and sell a supercharger adapter for a standard portable wireless charging pad.

[@jonevansauthor]

Fair, that's an obvious option. It wouldn't be that hard and it'd be faster than upgrading the supercharger parking spots. However, Tesla would do that very quickly if and when they needed to and it seems likely they'll deploy them city by city anyway unless any country gives nationwide permission for them to be run everywhere, which seems unlikely.

[@kurt16950]

Is one better than the other? Actually, they are each in their own lane. One is a 3 wheel, which for mainstream may be a tough pill to swallow, yet it has efficient design and solar. Tesla cybercab ... you don't need to drive it, and it can make you money, and it can charge itself on inductive pad if you are not around. So both may cost similar, one makes you money even if you aren't around, the other needs to be charged on rainy days, cloudy days, and it remains to see how much charge real life will give it . We only here 'optimum' charging not for the majority of the world. I think both are interesting... and to compare them is like comparing an apple and a orange, each is quite nice and exciting, but you don't have to say one is better than the other. Tesla's experience in taking things to volume production will certainly be a big factor, and if Aptera can do that , then congrats to them. We will see.

[@robertkirchner7981]

On every Aptera post, someone inevitably comes along to scream "IT"S A DEATHTRAP". Weird that when a car looks conventional like the Tesla no one seems to have that anxiety.

[@glike2]

Bro science 😂

[@southerncyan4098]

I mean, apparently the Aptera won't have airbags? What's up with that, maybe I've misheard?

[@deanmcmanis9398]

Aptera does have to get to production ASAP, but not because of Tesla. The Model 2 has become the RoboTaxi as far as I can tell. All of the automakers are relaxing a bit because the Chinese tariffs are easing the urgency to get into a EV price war here. And most legacy automakers are using it to extend their feet dragging on producing economical, affordable vehicles, and go to hybrids, pickups and crossovers. Even though Elon said that they are targeting 2027 and $30K price, look at the Cybertruck. When it was announced in 2019 it was going to have 250 miles of range and a price of $40K! When it finally came out it was the end of 2023, and the real starting price was $125,000+ to get one in your driveway. Elon is focused on Robotaxi more than Tesla as a company, so he is not rushing to bring out a $25K "Model 2" any time soon, and he has made the buy-in for the cheapest Tesla without a steering wheel or pedals. I honestly think that he is going to have serious issues getting past regulators in California. Especially because he has not shown working Level 3 ADAS, let alone Level 5! I think that Musk will win this war against the regulators ultimately and succeed with the RoboTaxi. I am just not sure that it will happen before 2030. Aptera's demand will exceed its production capability for years to come. But Aptera have to start production ASAP to get out of this waiting room, primarily limited by financing. Aptera's solar charging and long range still set it apart from everything else. But that opportunity for unique advantage is not going to last forever. 🏎 🌞

[@glennturner1057]

I hope the new cheaper version Tesla IS just a drivable cyber taxi! Just needs more range, or you might as well have a Bolt.

[@jonevansauthor]

I get it, but everyone would still rather have the Tesla software, full Supercharger access, and proper engineering.

[@fernandozenomiranda9470]

10:10 if u leave something in the trunk, you probably most likely need to get out. Your hand doesn't reach the end of the trunk which is where things will go when accelerating. Plus, it's an extremely uncomfortable position. Better to just go out and open the trunk. Not a big deal.

[@franciscog9635]

Excellent comparison of the two most efficient cars (if and when either comes to market). I’m an Aptera fan but you didn’t mention Tesla’s supervised full self drive or better vs Aptera maybe Comma AI cruise control.

[@douggolde7582]

Elon said people will be able to buy the robotaxi. He never said it would have a steering wheel.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

He never said it has NO steering wheel...

[@truhartwood3170]

If Aptera had autonomous driving, then I'd choose the Aptera. If not, then I'd choose the cybercab. Also, you could just not get a vehicle and summon a Cybercab whenever you need one and not ever think about how it's charging.

[@glennturner1057]

If the Tesla doesn’t get decent range, then I would choose Aptera. You know that’s, getting the range.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

Tesla offers a cybercab for taxi service providers and Aptera is a fun vehicle for the enthiusiast. Maybe one day Tesla offers a Model 2 with steering wheel? But then this is a car, the Aptera is not.

[@bnight.7996]

I have not gone to see the Aptera in person but have been following it from the beginning. I am having a tough time with the trunk area because the depth closest to the back is so narrow. I typically place boxes or bags in that location and would rather not crawl into the back to secure and retrieve my items. Anyone else see it live and can tell me what they think or how they see this issue is resolved?

[@jasonburke5503]

I am pretty sure melon husk does not want to make a drive able version on the cab(I could be wrong). Either way I would rather walk than support that guy.

[@techyjames1945]

Difference in Cybercab versus Aptera is one point target. Aptera is designed for niche market where you don’t have family or extra car for too from work. Not fixing car ownership. Cybercab is fully autonomous taxi designed so 80% of all metro type of trips where car ownership is limited due to parking and other limitations. My problem with Aptera is for me while 80% of my trips are just me and wife. The other 20% would require a bigger car for us and grandkids. When we have them over for weekends. How is being required to have 2 vehicles a solution to problem? It means double insurance, additional parking area.

[@FutureVisionAI-x9o]

Good stuff.

[@glike2]

LMFP batteries will maybe takeover with so many advantages

[@ccibinel]

The open cargo area of the Aptera is also a safety hazard. Anything heavier than a tissue box is a potentially dangerous projectile. A strong cargo net at a minimum is absolutely critical.

[@garywozniak7742]

Aptera has said they have anchor points in the cargo area.

[@glike2]

Any 4 seat car has the same risk if people put luggage in the back seats without seatbelts

[@KyleHubb]

Trunk space, interior space, safety, unrivaled user experience with infotainment, reliability (mobile service, access to service centers, parts, support, ease of booking an appointment on Tesla's app) makes Tesla Cybercab the undisputed champion here. Aptera might be more efficient, but if Tesla comes close to the 5.5 miles/kWh mark they're shooting for, then the efficiency difference between the Aptera and the Cybercab will be very negligible.

[@elertus]

Thanks Drew. I supposed the Aptera is Pillsbury Dough Boy approved I.e., It has a cute belly! Aptera is an “ autocycle “ registered as a motorcycle in most places, so maybe less expensive to insure(?). Yes HOV lane compliant with only one person… Aptera.. Lean manufacturing… Less complicated with Right To Repair. We are expecting a simple Level I charging included with Aptera 🤞 🤔Will a self driving car carry more liability in a insurers mind…passed on? At this point Aptera is like a small friendly family. I never owned a Tesla / experience what you/those owners do. I understand “ IF “ you can get a wide enough tow dolly an Aptera can be towed behind a vehicle ( huge inefficient ) RV , where the rear wheel will, be free wheeling.. How sweet wiuld that be, tapping that market ( rather than having a full flat bed trailer ) I think of Aptera as the “Captain’s Gig” departing the huge ship !😉

[@Ripsticker45]

I would be 100% Aptera but the super large front tire width makes it very unpracticed to drive in a city. Because of that I am team Cyber Car.

[@charangohabsburg1]

Drew, are you sure you wanted to say that the Cyber Cab might be more efficient than promised (+6mi vs. 5.5mi / gal)?

[@witext]

Right to repair is a HUGE thing for me, always hated how Tesla treats servicing & while it has improved, & there is def something to be said about Tesla making stuff such that it doesn’t need servicing in the first place, I almost wanna buy an aptera to support their right to repair stance

[@joewilder]

What about if they put solar on the Model 2? What would your choice be then?

[@garywozniak7742]

I don't think that it has the surface area for as much solar as the Aptera and it probably won't be as efficient as Aptera, particularly if it has FSD. But I think Tesla should do it.

[@benjaminnead8557]

Yes, you could stick flex panels all over any Elonmobile. But when you start the process of integrating the PV with the vehicle's electronics, Tesla will void all your warranties.

[@robertkirchner7981]

At a predicted 5.5 miles per kWh, Model 2 isn't efficient enough to make practical use of solar panels.

[@vic321344]

If that would be of any real use, Tesla already made it.

[@IndigenousEarthling101]

The Aptera will likely get you there more efficiently and faster, with fewer and faster charging stops. The CyberCab will likely get you there more quietly, less shaken, less stressed, better connected, better entertained, and less road weary.

[@Jacob99.]

I have a hunch that what Tesla lacks in range/ efficiency will be made up for in safety testing. I’m a big fan of aptera, but the safety rating would more than enough to convince buyers to lean towards Tesla

[@Ken69690]

They already said it will be tested as a car for safety

[@Jacob99.]

@@Ken69690 Just because it’s tested, doesn’t mean it will be safe. I remember the unique “safety” feature of the Aptera is that it’ll bounce/ roll like beach ball in a collision due to its shape and weight. I couldn’t imagine that going too well in safety testing lol

[@Ken69690]

@@Jacob99. Well, one really doesn’t have to think about it until the crash results are out. It’s like judging a book by its cover.

[@Jacob99.]

@@Ken69690 that’s a good point, hopefully we’ll get to see some actual data soon

[@TheFrumpyDad]

The cyber coupe would be killer. It looks like what an Infiniti G35 would look like now if it were a truly modern EV…. And as a sports coupe…

[@slowercuber7767]

At the end of the day, I'd probably go with Tesla ahead of Aptera, at least until the Aptera has proven itself and maybe come down in price a little. I'm also a little concerned about those low, wide out-riggers being brutalized by other vehicles, I'll be wait to see what the statistics on nacelle-bender accidents amount to before I take the plunge, even were I going to get an Aptera.... Dang, though it's look appeals to me -- it looks like the future more so than any other vehicle I know of.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

Aptera with Tesla FSD would be a hit.

[@richpalmisano1740]

When is the launch edition going to come? It's been delayed again to 2016. I love the Aptera's concept...but man, the actual production of this thing is proving to be a really difficult hurdle for them.

[@ShihanQu]

If you're road tripping, you'll want a model 3 with FSD. Unfortunate that first gen Aptera won't have any proper driver assist

[@josephharoun2780]

So... you like Aptera? ;)

[@robertkirchner7981]

He has a reservation.

[@andRwhoo]

If Tesla added solar for passive charging to that entire top section, would you change your mind?

[@tinycmo]

If the tesla came with a xbox controller interface for driving..that would be cool.

[@garywozniak7742]

Of it cane out with a real steering wheel and pedals it would ne even cooler. I'd prefer not having to pay to have to babysit sit my vehicle to make sure it doesn't screw up.

[@HablaCarnage63]

If you need space you use an autonomous Model Y.

[@aftonline]

I am actually skeptical that Tesla will release a Model 2 at all, as Elon is so obsessed with the robotaxi he is likely to keep stalling on the affordable Tesla. He wants the rich driving a S3XY or Cybertruck, and the poor to ride in his robotaxis. He is all about getting cars off the road, not encouraging the masses to own their own vehicles.

[@SpeakerKevin]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and with that said, I'll go with the Tesla over the Aptera.

[@astaheller9961]

When aptera was originally going to have iwm, it's quirky front wheel pants made sense. But since they're going with a fwd layout, the closed fenders like the cybercab looks a lot better

[@raymondwong2521]

I though I was the only person comparing the two. Thanks for your video and now I can show to my co-workers how similar they look and Elon could have stolen some of the design ideas from Aptera.

[@HablaCarnage63]

Obviously a fully autonomous Aptera.

[@jonevansauthor]

An amusing thing about the steering wheel version of the Cybercab form factor to me, is that it would still function perfectly well as a robotaxi. I would happily get in the driving seat of a vehicle with a steering wheel, and let it drive me, once it's proven it can do that safely. They may well just start building it, if they believe Giga Mexico is worth going forward with. I think he'll make his assessment on that after the US election. He clearly believes, and his literally stated now that Biden's 'you led Mary' comment and horrific attitude toward electrification in general, has offended him. Imagine if you told someone their baby was ugly, but they'd already seen the signs that their baby was a budding Einstein. That would not go down well. Imagine that person has emotional control issues because they're on the spectrum. Imagine they've made their life work achieving big goals for humanity, and you think it's going well but someone then takes a giant ahem, movement, on your work, insults you personally, gives credit to the total lack of competition and then you become genuinely worried that your Giga Mexico factory. Trump is a clear and present danger to Tesla. If he'd got in, and Elon backed Harris or did not back Trump, Trump would seek revenge against him because he backstabs his friends but certainly will do anything to his enemies. He's a spiteful, petty, ignorant man and Elon may not have the highest EQ, but he recognises that. So he's cosying up to Trump to protect Tesla in the horrifying event he gets elected. But.... the Democrats could have had him eating of his hand by just letting Pete Buttigieg manage that relationship. Completely crazy that they didn't make overtures to him and make it up with Tesla. You can disagree with Bill Gates, and still use his Office software. You can buy armaments for the military but make those illegal for private citizens. I fear the Democrats are going to lose the election (both houses, and the White House) and that'll be hugely damaging for the world, all because they're too daft to realise how to handle people like Elon. Once the election is over, and he knows whether or not Trump is going to punish Mexico, and hamper Tesla's ability to build and export from there, I think he'll make a decision to push forward with it. He wants and needs to build there, but he could put a Gigafactory in other locations and focus his funding where it'll be welcome and more effective. At the point Mexico is underway, they'll be able to devote production to Cybercab or Cybercab size vehicles as we believe that's where they'd build them. I'd love him to ship a steering wheel version, because I believe they should be able to build them so fast, that their production capacity with outrun the legislation - in other words, not enough places will permit them to do a massive open beta test of Cybercab as a fully autonomous, or even a Waymo style, robotaxi so they'll quickly run out of places to use it. But they can make that decision at any point between now, and having a production line ready. They also needed to prep politicians for the idea that this *is* happening. He's not going to Osborne his potential sales, by making firm announcements on any of it until he knows what's going to be permitted, who the government is, and what places will let him run Robotaxi in any form (supervised or not). I sincerely hope we'll get a) a steering wheel version of cybercab or b) a similar, but shorter vehicle for the non-FSD permitted market. We simply won't know any of this for a year or two though. And yes, I'd love to see Aptera style solar panels available as a panel option. If they can go into production and prove it, perhaps that will happen if the system to enable it is light enough and cost effective. I want those panels to be incredibly cheap, and cost effective, because we could use them all over the place. If they hit parity with the normal body panel anyway, and if Robotaxi is using 'plastic' panels (the Smart car did that and it worked very well, you can change colour of vehicle fairly cheaply and very quickly, you can repair panels easily, and they were easy to put company livery on) then bolting on a solar panel one, would be super easy, even if all it did was run the air con and entertainment side of things.

[@jonevansauthor]

Side view mirrors is a thing as well - I'm pretty sure those are a legal requirement in most countries, so until they accept we don't need them - and how many politicians are clever enough to understand how bad the drag they cause is - even robotaxi would have to have them. At the point it wouldn't, I'd expect no car would need them. Just because they let a robot drive, wouldn't mean they wouldn't insist on mirrors....

[@jonevansauthor]

The wall in the boot of the cybercab should remain, because a) it's cheap b) it massively reduces noise and c) if it is a cab, you do not want to leave anything in it, so it needs as little storage in the cabin as possible. You aren't planning to be in it that long, unless you have to get to an airport and travel a bit further and get stuck in traffic. Plus, it will pull over when you ask it to... but yes, for a passenger car, it'd be nice to have an option. I just don't think they should deviate in any area that they don't have to.

[@Dr.Gehrig]

Aptera 💯

[@josephgallagher1440]

Aptera!!

[@johntrotter8678]

As much as I like Aptera, I think the biggest difference is money. Tesla has the funds to engineer details far better than Aptera.

[@daryltemporary]

isn't wireless charging slower and less efficient than cable charging?

[@4jochen]

I think, Testla might not release a "Model 2" within the next 5 years. They need to implement production lines for the CyberCab with a radical new and fully implemented "unboxed" process = focus here on one product and the most cost efficient way to produce exaktly that one. The RoboCab with steering and paddles is not attractive - as discussed - a open cabin with trunk access would be prefered -> a new design needed = unlikely. So, maybe, most (all) of the points here - are right - but meaningless as there will be no model 2.