Dog Shows How Easily Reward Training FAILS!!

[@ericcrozier2667]

Been following Jamie for years love his work and is eloquence , as a E collar trainer who works in dog rescue and takes his fare share of abuse from the uneducated and ill informed always great to see e collar training done correctly 😊🐶

[@lisamariemckenna7841]

As someone who has been through this with my doberman, who would not only chase birds on the street but in flight too ....THANK YOU !! People need to wake up. Dog training is NOT a case of one size fits all !

[@JamiePenrithDogTraining]

🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@kaycampbell8508]

This is exactly my Doberman….

[@fionasilk]

@@kaycampbell8508 Mine's a dobie x GSP x English Setter - absolute nightmare! just like the nutter in this video!

[@keithcrackett1992]

I’ve had this exact scenario. I talked the owner into using an e collar and the dog gets to run and hunt safely. It recalls easily and happily. It’s littermates are still on the lead. Which for this breed is cruelty. It was a litter of gsp brought over from Romania and allowed to run in a two acre fenced off paddock until they where 10 months old then rehomed. By then they had invented all sorts of fun behaviours

[@convidtruthshallout]

I live in rural France. I rescued two chasse dogs. They weigh over 40 kg each! Big dogs. It was impossible to take these dogs for a walk because they behaved just like this dog in the video. If they caught a scent or worse saw a deer I would literally be pulled flat on my face and they would be gone for hours. The only thing to control this urge was an e collar. I could enjoy the walk and the dogs could have the exercise they needed and we all were safe from harm.

[@LauraHopkinsCDL]

Not a chance when the dog is in hunt mode. Love it when you show it so clearly. Thank you Jamie. I was walking my Service dog just before dark when a huge dog comes charging up, hackles up all the way. Owner says "he's only 6 months old , do you want me to take him away"? Hell yes. I don't care how old the dog is. That behaviour is totally unacceptable and the dog should not be off lead. Why does the average dog owner think charging is acceptable??? Had my dog reacted in any other way then totally disinterested it would've been a fight. I do despair Jamie at the lack of control most dog owners have. Sorry for the rant.

[@nigelpriest6326]

I've only just started watching Jamie's videos and applying them to my 9 month old GSP.I was abit stand offish about e collars but after listening to his explanations and training my dog I can see what he means.Shes is doing amazing so far and loves to please.More repetition first and more studying Jamie's videos and then maybe the collar will be purchased..Many thanks Jamie for sharing your knowledge.

[@leztfl]

This is one of the best videos I've seen that demonstrates that when dogs have hunting on their mind (and in their genes) no amount of food will bring them back. thank you.

[@jimbutler6925]

We have a 21 month old Parson Jack Russell Terrier who has such a strong prey drive for birds etc that no amount of food offerings would stop him trying to get to them. He has climbed fences in our garden (just like you or I would climb a ladder!) to get to pheasants in a neighbouring paddock - I'm watching your videos with interest, thank you. We now have a former police dog handler and trainer who has just starting working with us and who has recommended an e-collar, which is how I found your channel by searching for e-collar training (previous trainers have only wanted to use +ve reinforcement with high value foods - it doesn't work for our dog). Our dog needs to be let off the lead so that he can enjoy the environment and fulfil his needs, but until such time that I can trust that his prey drive is suppressed (perhaps the wrong word) enough for him to safely do so (for him and other animals) he will have to stay on the long lead. Thanks, it's so refreshing to see a dog trainer who isn't totally fixated on the one training method, which doesn't work for all dogs.

[@666gwp]

Great video Jamie and exactly what I expected would happen when I saw your facebook post about this video. Hopefully this might persuade some treat type folks that that dog has 100% focus on hunting , that leaves 0% for anything else including steak, liver cake, lobster etc. Once in this red zone they are hunting machines, not to be underestimated, she looks lovely dog too if she was controllable. Zero chance with treats, the only thing I have seen work is your video with E collar with the sheep driven dog. I will interested to see if you can get this dog to ignore pheasants etc to be honest but if you can you will have proved beyond doubt it works as this dog is really into prey hunting, level 10/10, looks like slick GWP as determined and ruthless as they come hunting wise. As you say is average person took this dog on it can only end in disaster. Keep up the good work.

[@springertim5246]

Like walking my Springer 🙇🏼‍♂️ Great example and the reason why force free trainers have failed to help. Thanks Jamie.

[@clarendoncrusader]

This video is superb! Perfectly sums up my own situation and difficulties with, and subsequent moving away from, positive only, with my pup.

[@stephenparry172]

Loving the videos, keep them coming. Honest no nonsense training tips with great footage to clearly demonstrate the point. Top job.

[@chrisr-m6568]

Jamie, I'm a dog behaviorist in the states Good video!

[@Roxanneiswonderful]

This is such a powerful video. I would not have believed it unless I saw it. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I hope other dog owners see this too.

[@gazgibster]

the minute i saw the dog and how he was hunting i knew that steak meant zilch nothing not a dickie bird and if that dog escapes the owner because we all know that a lead is only a restaint that dogs gone and no telling what damage the dog will do i have had this with clients dogs we all know the answer to this dont we and its not a rib eye steak. great video again Jamie keep up the great work.

[@neilrobinson8101]

An interesting video. We have a rescue Brittany with a very high prey drive and a very high level of wanderlust. We've trained her to be a lot better than this dog on lead but off lead, she likes to go far. Her recall is good enough to come back a decent amount of time, (although sometimes it's hard to know if she's just checking in, which she's good at). But her recall is completely lost if there's an animal present. It seems no amount of long lead training will teach her not to go far though, it's what she's bred for.

[@JoJo_GSD]

Amen to this. This is a brilliant explanation, thank you 👍🙌

[@forbesdogtraining]

Brilliant video Jamie, one of your best! Love it! 😂

[@JamiePenrithDogTraining]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@rossgriffiths4034]

Very good demo it's going to be hard work just to get her to walk properly on the lead let alone recall from distraction I know the purpose of the vid is to highlight the impracticality of posative reinforcement but would be interested to see what you do with her stabilisation wise

[@rensha8635]

Imagine that dog in the wrong hands 🤔 that dog is a serious liability.

[@sarahmckee3356]

Well said !

[@JG-mv5qn]

Jamie another great video, that dogs on another planet, patience going to be needed there am sure Victoria S could handle it 😀 😉 in her dreams.

[@nejakytulak3226]

hi, thanks for all information in your videos, i have few questions take the dog in this particular video as an example, after you have taught him recall, heel position and release to freedom, what do you expect the dog to do once you recalled him? do you follow up with a heel signal so that it becomes a habit for him to get into heel position after he comes to you? once you recall him, and you dont intend to give him any more specific signals, do you always give a signal to release? as i see it, to make it as clear for the dog as possible, the structure has to be: if i give a signal to release(break), dog is free to go as far as he likes in any direction (unless i create invisible, non-cued bounds) if i give a signal to come (recall), dog must come to me and wait for either another signal (heel, down, sit), or a signal to release, what the dog does and doesnt do during his released state will be manipulated through the ecollar without giving any audible cues so that he will not choose to make dangerous decisions in future regardless of my presence this also means that he will make a habit of checking back with me on his own because the enviroment/competing reinforcers have been downranked enough through this type of training and he will anticipate a signal from me every so often please say where if i am wrong in anything

[@timearp8185]

My lab won't stop hunting for anything. He's on an extender which probably makes it worse but was recommended (for training recall) by a trainer. Next will probably be an e-collar.

[@lornacrook89]

This is my pointer to a Tee. Only with the use of an ECollar and balanced training have me and my girl been able to actually enjoy walks. Previously she has chased birds (grounded and in flight) as well as other animals. She has also cut her leg open down to the cartilage whilst in chase and didn't realise or feel it until she had stopped chasing and did "the shake" Thank you Jamie for another brilliant video! Ps what a beauty of a pointer 😍

[@akaiakira]

My won't take RAW MEAT or any food when he's around dogs or high level distractions. Yes, I'm working through it in small steps,but i had to get an E collar and prong in order to actually get a response. Of course it will rake training,and conditioning,but otherwise there's no thing valuable enough. This is were consequences come in place.

[@bernieconlin7343]

My lurcher would eat the steak and then carry on hunting tbh

[@barbaravanerp4598]

My dog has done amazing with positive training but…rabbits, deer, strange person she switches. E collar gives her a free life and I keep her and critters safe. It’s the only thing I need it for. Can get her to do everything else with positive reinforcement.

[@aviduke]

I'm only here for the steak

[@JJ-vb1sv]

Sorry but this isn’t a fair representation of how positive reinforcement training works. Nobody expects a dog in a state of high arousal with no previous conditioning to behave any other way than responding to its natural drives. The point of positive reinforcement is to build conditioned responses starting with in a low arousal state and building up. Always setting a dog up for success not failure as in the example. I suspect Jamie knows this perfectly well and it’s very disappointing that he’s using such a disingenuous example. I’m not even a die hard adherent to positive only methods, I tend to think there’s a time and place for many different approaches. However I have lost a lot of respect for Jamie for what is basically a knowingly inaccurate representation/ straw man attack. And I do own a HPR and am well aware of the struggles of getting them to listen when in hunt mode

[@JamiePenrithDogTraining]

There’s nothing disingenuous here. Unless the dogs are lying? What is the point in bullshitting people into believing that a proven dog in the process of chasing or hunting will break that chase for food - irrespective of the conditioning history - if the dog is unwilling to take that same food reward option for absolutely zero behavioural requirement whatsoever? Why on Earth does anyone need to condition a dog to eat free food, right under its nose? The fairytale is just that. A con. A hoax. A dangerous and disingenuous narrative, peddled by people who are neither willing nor able to demonstrate the bullshit that tumbles from their mouths and costs thousands upon thousands of animals, their lives. Do not feel disappointed. Feel discovered. Or enlightened - Educated. Feel uncomfortable. But reserve any disappointment for the realisation that the bubble is burst. Owning an HPR is something entirely different to taking someone else’s HPR that has a history of hunting unimpeded and having that dog respond to command instantly and reliably using food as a reinforcer. Thank you for your thoughts.

[@batesnpenny2020]

There is a process to training dogs with food just like there is a process to training dogs with ecollars. You don't just slap a collar on the dog and expect them to know what to do. You break it down, systematically teach the dog what to do, work on your own timing and mechanics, there's a lot more to it than just putting a collar on the dog correct? So why are you pretending that using food in training is just chucking food at the dog? It's not and any trainer worth their salt knows that. It's building value for the handler, it's the mechanics of food delivery, it's varied reinforcement schedules, it's layering in environmental rewards and so much more. Very disingenuous example.

[@louisrassinfosse5860]

People find it comforting, even Jamie, to not exit their confort zone and stick to the knowledge they have without questionning it... Here is just another perfect example of it. I guess another major problem is that his only succes metric is based on visual results. Might as well teach the dog with a prong collar then, the dog will comply; and will obey, guaranteed.

[@captmicha]

And yet people who are competent at positive training do it every day. Maybe you can hire a qualified trainer to teach you how to do it correctly.

[@mosheyda]

This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen, throwing a rare steak at an untrained dog, lol. Positive reinforcement training only works if the dog has been TRAINED which this dog OBVIOUSLY has NOT. Positive reinforcement works when you put the work in, building up with distance and distraction.

[@volancydogs]

How are you going to gradually build up distance and distraction with a variety of wild prey animals? Do you need to be friends with someone who has a menagerie of wild animals and practise on their property for a year? I'm not trying to be snarky, but it's just not realistic.

[@clairegriffiths9284]

I disagree. We've been doing the positive reinforcement "force free" training for years, it doesn't work with every dog. There is no balance, there is no consequence if the dog gets it wrong. My dog has zero interest in food or toys, he won't even look at me or respond once he sets foot outside. I'm sure it works for lots of dogs, just not dogs with a huge prey drive

[@barbaravanerp4598]

I’d agree, but I can get my dog through time and training to come etc…95% of the time. I only need e collar for these sorts of situations and rarely use but to keep critters and people safe I think it’s necessary for our dog

[@DaveDEF82]

"Standard rescue dog" continues the video with an OBVIOUS pointing breed mix (probably lots of GSP genes)... Ain't nothing standard about that. Also a rib-eye steak is not a high value reward if the dog gets raw meat regularly but yeah... It's not like you really try to make a real point here. That dog was most certainly used for hunting wherever it came from and not in the way that a pointing dog is used in a ritualized hunt with its owner where it is pointing and flushing the bird on cue. Don't be disingenuous. It's rather ridiculous really.

[@TheBeachloveriow]

Lol .. this is funny. Or it would be if it wasn’t so tragic.