Talking About Calvinism | Leighton Flowers |

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, sits down with Keith Foskey of Conversations With A Calvinist to talk about Calvinism while at the Why Calvinism? Conference.
Check out the full video on the Conversations With A Calvinist channel here: • Talkin' Calvinism with...
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#Calvinism #WhyCalvinismConference #WhyCalvinism

[@thomasthepromise8430]

I appreciated Keith's disposition and humility in this conversation. Kudos to both of you for listening to each other in effort to understand.

[@HJM0409]

Wow good job Leighton. Every answer so quick and Clear and KIND

[@bridgetgolubinski]

I noticed the same, Leighton was sharp!

[@fionamillar6842]

How refreshing to listen to two brothers discuss so congenially and with such love and respect for each ither

[@jacobsnyder2781]

You nailed every question. God bless you Dr. Flowers!

[@5Solaservant]

This was a great video to see two brothers speaking with grace and love. Jesus has really done a work in Leighton.

[@trebmaster]

THIS needs to be floated as how Calvinist vs. non interactions should go. Thank you both so much for this conversation and being willing to share it! (Unless Keith was not told his conversation would be shared. LOL)

[@jolookstothestars6358]

Loved this talk Leighton, great job and a gracious host!!👍

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

It's interesting at 12:20 Keith tries to make his point using an example given by an Atheist. When have you ever heard an Atheist describe his understanding of God without using Calvinistic terms? The atheist rightly rejects these terms, but throws out the God who loves them with the frame in which Calvin paints him. Pastor Foskey's argument is much more revealing than he realizes.

[@leenieledejo6849]

​@SolaAndTotaScriptura*its punch. No apostrophe. Because it's a possessive pronoun. When "it is" is contracted to "it's" then yes, we use an apostrophe. The apostrophe is usually there to indicate a letter is missing. It's only used in possessives when the subject is a name eg. Leighton's glasses. I can tell you're trying to sound intelligent but your lack of basic grammar (which I learned in 6th grade) lets you down.

[@calvinpeterson9581]

Right on Leighton! Well said!

[@DaysofElijah317]

To say that GOD spoke the universe into existence is not to affirm determinism but He willed the universe as it is; with creatures both man and angel that can freely choose Him. Otherwise you cannot have love; and GOD is love and we are made in GOD’s image.

[@kevinevans5921]

Good debate, and both were respectful to each other.

[@SonToTheKing]

What interests me is in order to believe in Calvinism you have to be predominantly taught it. In my earlier years just being taught the Bible normally I believed that we have a choice and we will be held responsible for what you chose rather than your eyes have to be open and you have to be chosen by God before the dawn of time. It wasn’t till I switched churches that I started believing in more Calvinism. But after doing more research I solely believe again that each and every one of us has a choice and will be responsible for that choice…

[@Yaas_ok123]

Great talk !

[@eugenejoseph7076]

I once had a conversation with a Calvinist and realized I was talking to tape recorder on a loop. It just kept saying, "God is sovereign, God is sovereign" over and over again! It was weird. Then I sat in front of Calvinist for real and my first question was, "How ya' doin?". "God is sovereign!"

[@clintd3476]

This is a good, though partial, conversation.

[@daltonbrasier5491]

I really love your attitude and demeanor. It changes the tone and allows for better discussion.

[@yobabybubba]

This was great, thank you, Leighton.

[@J-ky8qg]

Truly impressed with how this conversation went. I really appreciate the guest ans his cordial nature and humour.

[@Jeremyburroughs777]

💯🔥Thank you Leighton!

[@yobabybubba]

This was great. Thank you, Leighton. They both have great beards too.

[@ekklesialifeapplicationbib7352]

Great discussion 👍

[@davidhudson8334]

I appreciate the humility displayed by two believers who see things differently. I think James White could learn a thing or two about humility from you both.

[@jmatt5152]

Acts 17:26-31 sermon on mars hill answers the question for me about those that have never heard the gospel. And also Romans 2:14-16 helps me understand what the issues are.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Leighton looks so healthy. The weight loss and the associated changes seem to suit him. Define, "fair." That's the problem; we have different beliefs about, "fair." So this discussion is unlikely to reach a group consensus.

[@SisterBaby]

He does look healthy, right? Although a person can go overboard on grooming and attire, Leighton always appears professional.

[@Nobleeagle100]

One of the best debates I have seen so far againts Calvinism, good job Flowers!

[@Godprovidesjohn316]

LF spot on! ❤

[@longislandtrainer]

Appreciate this conversation and the way you both spoke. The last few videos you've posted have cemented my belief in calvinism. I thank you for that even though we hold opposing views. May the Lord bless you.

[@GThePreacher]

Where is the debate between you both would love to see it

[@MadRedCarnelian]

Every single person is placed in space and time where they have the best chance of coming to Christ, period.

[@AndrewKeifer]

Custom suited to each individual so that regardless of their lot in life, they have AMPLE opportunity.

[@wesleydahar7797]

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Even the people born before Christ? Seems like they would have had no chance at all.

[@AndrewKeifer]

​@dahar7797 Salvation has always been by God crediting the believer with righteousness. That's why Romans 4:23-24 says we too (Christians) will be credited with righteousness when we believe in Christ. The atonement was for all sin, past, present, and future.

[@wesleydahar7797]

@@AndrewKeifer I agree. I was just hoping to hear what the original commenter thought. I know that all are without excuse, but I haven't heard that all are optimally situated to believe.

[@AndrewKeifer]

@dahar7797 I believe Romans 10:17-18 and Acts 17:26-27 say as much. I think he's basing his statement on the character of God as providing abundantly. Sorry, I know you didn't ask me and of course I don't speak for him.

[@paulklenknyc]

We still live in the flesh while we are alive, even if we’re saved.

[@jjphank]

Both! sin is a choice and we have a sinful nature, but it’s not totally depraved to the point the Calvinists define it; it’s not depraved to The point that we don’t have free will!

[@jayrodriguez84]

Any idea how many lies you have told in your life using your free will? White lies, commission, and omission?

[@brianschmidt704]

correct. We are dead in our sins but not to the point of being a corpse. This is why Paul goes on later in Romans. To remind us that faith come sometimes by hearing the word of god. What a calvinist has to say is that we are somehow made alive apart from christ. And before believing. So god gives us the faith without us doing anything. This is contrary to the rest of scriwe're god continually places a choice before people.

[@jjphank]

@@brianschmidt704 True, predestination nullifies the necessity of the cross, and the necessity of the pain that Jesus went through is nullified!

[@jayrodriguez84]

​@@jjphankCan you be justified and not be born of the Holy Spirit?

[@jjphank]

@@jayrodriguez84 no! If you mean spiritual gifts, that could be a different baptism, but it takes the Holy Spirit to be saved 1 Corinthians 12:3

[@tylerbird606]

Keith has to be one of the kindest Calvinist 🤣

[@jackdabbs1633]

This is what happens when you have a valid system. These polite questions with an intent to show contradictions come up with nothing.

[@nesto2851]

Full video please?

[@SETGL2010]

We aren’t as bad as we could be, but we are as bad off as we can be - without Christ. I’m so thankful He made a way for all men to be saved, if only we will repent and turn in faith to Christ. ”And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,“ ‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬ ‭ ”And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”“ ‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭32‬ ‭ ”Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.“ ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭18‬

[@JohnQPublic11]

There is no point in debating isolated issues with Calvinists. There is only one thing you need to know. The issue *IS NOT* fairness, or nature, or desire, or freewill, the issue *”IS”* the irrefutable fact that the sovereign Calvinist potter God, for no known good or plausible reason, randomly plucks names out of an Abe Lincoln hat prior to Creation and fatalistically predestines “Totally Depraved”, invincibly ignorant, people to Hell for no other reason than his own good selfish glory and his own good sadistic pleasure!

[@SisterBaby]

Yes! And don't forget the other main issue, which is from where do they get their theology: Scripture? or theological philosophy?

[@thiagoemanuel8607]

What you said proves that your faith only goes so far as your knowledge. You dont know why God would "arbitrarily" choose people apart from their works, so its autmatically random and unplausible.

[@JohnQPublic11]

@@thiagoemanuel8607 --- lol! Please explain to the class how a, just and merciful, omnibenevolent God “arbitrarily” chooses people, *PRIOR to CREATION,* he is going to barbecue in Hell?

[@MisertheWizer]

God must've predestined the man for the hat instead of the hat for the man, must've been a very powerful hat

[@MisertheWizer]

​@@thiagoemanuel8607but approving the calvinistic understanding proves you do have more understanding? As far as we know both may be wrong

[@xneutralgodx]

To answer his first question on fairness. Fairness in hearing the gospel of a person one time versus many times is determined by GODs knowledge of reception (ears to hear). Secondly once or many times a man hears the gospel is basically saying loving a little or alot. But either way its still love none the less

[@xneutralgodx]

@@BiblicalTeachings that's a trick question . Every single human after Christ will here the good news at least once in there lifetime except for those too young . as for detirmism I am not a Calvinist. There is a huge difference the way I used the word determine . Don't get triggered by the word

[@bobbyadkins6983]

My greatest desire is to make it to Heaven. That effects so much of what I do and don't do.

[@JoeBloggs-4096]

Romans 4:4-5 KJV Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

​​@@JoeBloggs-4096 Matthew 7:21 [21]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 2 Peter 3:17-18 [17]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

[@JoeBloggs-4096]

Hi. Let's not just throw Bible verses at each other. Verses without context will just send us chasing our tails. I have a simple question. Are you saying we are saved by our works?

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@JoeBloggs-4096 Are you saying we can live just anyway we want, not obey God, live like the devil, and be saved? We are saved by the grace of God if we do what is required for us.

[@JoeBloggs-4096]

My Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works so no one can boast. We are saved unto good works, not because of good works. If you trust your works to get to heaven you are relying on your righteousness, not the righteousness of Christ. Trusting yourself to work your way to be saved is the opposite of the gospel. But you still haven't answered my question. Do you believe we are saved by our good works?

[@Yaas_ok123]

When we see the debate ?!

[@illadvized7623]

C.S. lewis put it like this, a father wants his child to clean his room and keep it clean because its his will, but the child doesnt keep his room clean or doesnt listen, its still all within the fathers will to allow the child to disobey. He doesnt want him to, its the childs choice, but its still within the fathers will

[@TimBunch]

The Calvanist changes the Jewish concept of yetzer hara (evil inclination) to mean total depravity. Having an inclination is not the same as being unable to do the opposite. We are inclined to sin, not required to sin.

[@jayrodriguez84]

Nobody has been able to do the opposite in life.

[@jayrodriguez84]

Can you be justified and not be born of the Holy Spirit?

[@leenieledejo6849]

​@@jayrodriguez84 Regenerate Christians are enabled to do the opposite by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. (John 8:34-36, all of Romans 6, half of Romans 8, 1st John chapters 3 thru 5). It's the carnal nature ("sarx/sarki" in Greek) that leans towards selfishness (sin is essentially worship of self) which is why Jesus says in John chapter 3 "you must be born again/born of the Spirit".

[@leenieledejo6849]

"We" meaning the lost and unregenerate. Regenerate believers (the only kind: John 1:12-13, Romans 8:9 etc) are slaves to righteousness, according to Scripture.

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@leenieledejo6849 You're a confused person.

[@bwc6520]

Maybe someone can help me here. I started watching the recent James White (can't recall the name of the other gentleman) debate that Leighton, Kevin, and others attended; and because of time constraints I couldn't watch the whole debate at once. I was somewhere in the middle of the second man's opening statement and had to stop watching for a while. I stopped the video and turned my screen off for probably 2 to 3 hours but when I came back the video was no where to be found; not in my history, not by any way I tried to search for it, it just seems to be gone. I'm not very techy so what am I missing here? Sorry about the long explanation but if anyone can help I would appreciate it.

[@ejt3708]

Seems clear to me that we can pretend to act morally in view of others, but "cheat" in the dark (John 3). When this is brought into the light, we can either repent, deny, or pretend it was right all along. Animals cheat - lots of science behind that. Humans are given the ability to realize that all things are made plain before God, and so we can choose the good and refuse the evil. I don't understand how Fatalists can imagine that they are forced (their strongest desire) to do good. Humility says that we understand our inability to do good and choose to become a slave to righteousness, but this is an every-day and every-minute choice.

[@Provision463]

Leighton have you read John Chrysostom’s commentary on Romans? It’s good.

[@ingela_injeela]

It's the same dynamics with the unbiblical 'Pre Tribulation Rapture' teaching. When asked where it is found in the Bible, John MacArthur shakes his bible, pages fluttering, and says with a wry smile: "it's between the lines!"

[@Snymansboer]

Would you please exegete Luke 24:13-35, specifically verses 16 and 31 from a provisionist perspective?

[@sheilasmith7779]

Exactly, it's human desire God created in humans, without ANY limits on desire. We are free to choose what desires we indulge, i.e., eat the cake or lose weight. To argue that the deck is stacked against us, ASSUMES the desire for cake is MORE powerful, than the desire to lose weight. Don't know how that can be proved.

[@jayrodriguez84]

It can be proven by how much sin is in your life. How many lies have you told in your life? When you look at how much sin you have committed in your life, would you say the deck is stacked against you?

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@jayrodriguez84 It seems the question Sheila proposes is not the existence of sin in one's life, but the source of the decision to sin. From the Calvinist perspective, is there any more or less sin in one's life than God has already ordained? Their contention is ultimately the source of Sin is God. Calvin is uncomfortable with it but claims ignorance as to how it cannot be true. We're told to accept it as a "mystery" and move on. “Let him, therefore, who would beware of such unbelief, always bear in mind, that there is no random power, or agency, or motion in the creatures, who are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that NOTHING happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (The Institutes of Christian Religion, Bk. 1, Ch. 16, Sect. 3)

[@sheilasmith7779]

@@jayrodriguez84 No, I wouldn't. Because one choice is easier than another, or one choice is harder, the d3ck is not stacked against me. When one discovers the benefits of virtue in daily living, concrete benefits, choices for good become easier.

[@wesleydahar7797]

Genesis 6:5 seems to indicate there is a not insignificant pull towards sin. If people really do have the freedom to choose to not sin, then the obvious benefits of righteousness must somehow be irrational in man's eyes.

[@leenieledejo6849]

Someone brought up in church, hearing about Jesus every day and having access to Bibles (physical and online) actually has a huge, huge responsibility. Imagine, despite this start in life, he faked belief, never repented (in a true Godly way: 2 Corinthians 7) and thought himself "chosen" and above everyone all his life, remaining unchanged and unregenerate his whole life. I wouldn't swap places with him on Judgment Day for anything 😳 To whom much is given, much is required...

[@wesleydahar7797]

Wait. Do you seriously think that Calvinists think of themselves as the "special chosen elect" that don't have to live out real Christian lives?

[@leenieledejo6849]

@@wesleydahar7797 I wasn't actually specifically referring to Calvinists in this comment. I was referring to the part in the video where the guest talks about those who grew up hearing the Gospel and those who never heard it. (Did you watch the video?)

[@MotoandReformed]

Keith literally looks like he’s scared to say anything to upset Daddy White.

[@bbsizzlegirl54]

Leighton says the Calvinist understanding reduces man to just an instinctive animal making choices based purely on desire (implying that that is incorrect), but that’s exactly how the Bible describes man apart from the grace of God. Animals are symbolic of mankind.

[@jeffreybomba]

Leighton has made this point, but does so infrequently, and it really is where convertible Calvinists get hung up. We must be open to and accept the gift of salvation, but does our profession or ritual seal salvation? NO! God seeks hearts that are humble and contrite, and His judgments are perfect, and not everyone that says LORD LORD is save. It is not the hearers, but the doers. When we make a profession of faith God knows your heart and chooses those that have come to Him according to His definition of faith, belief, humility and contrition. Those characteristics alone would prevent someone for them bragging because they were humble, unless God’s judgement failed. So like scripture says, both man and God must choose. The extreme opposing sides simply subjugate one choice to the other, rendering choice on one side moot.

[@fingerzfrienemy2226]

Proverbs 16:4 KJV THE Lord has made all things for himself. Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. 😊

[@livingforjesus8551]

Everything was created for his pleasure, and he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that they turn from their evil ways and live. Jesus said, everlasting fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Isaiah said, hell hath enlarged herself to accommodate men. God made men to bring pleasure to himself, and that means he wants them to live, and not die and go into everlasting fire, that was prepared for the devil and his angels. Why does hell have to enlarge herself, if men were meant to go there? They were nevereant to go to hell, that is why it hath enlarged herself. Revelation 4:11 King James Version 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Ezekiel 18:23 King James Version 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ezekiel 33:11 King James Version 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Matthew 25:41 King James Version 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Isaiah 5:14 King James Version 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

[@livingforjesus8551]

Everything wad created to bring pleasure to God, and God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that they should turn from their evil ways and live. Jesus said, everlasting fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, and Isaiah says hell has enlarged herself to accommodate men. Men were never meant to go to hell, they were meant to bring pleasure to God, and the way God gets pleasure from them, is if they turn from their evil ways, and live. Why does hell enlarge herself to accommodate men, if they were meant to go there, shouldn't it already be large enough for them? Revelation 4:11 King James Version 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Ezekiel 18:23 King James Version 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ezekiel 33:11 King James Version 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Matthew 25:41 King James Version 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Isaiah 5:14 King James Version 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

[@bellie888]

Funny how the conversation progressed to discuss sin. It is a big topic in the New Testament and many Christians focus on sin or not sinning whereas we are called to walk in righteousness by walking in the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us we are either slaves of sin or slaves of righteousness. Righteousness is not just 'not sinning' rather it is a gift imputed to us and we are called to be a slave to that righteousness. Not our own righteousness but the righteousness of Christ. Sin will still hurt us and will hurt those around us, but the Lord has dealt with and forgiven sin and ended the Law. We are dead to the Law, and are called to a much higher walk in righteousness where every decision is considered for its maximum benefit for the Lord and those around us. This sort of righteousness has no limits but sometimes requires consideration of competing 'right paths'. This way Christians become loving, sincere, and 'perfect' in the Bible sense of the word. It's not about sin, that is Old Testament thinking, it is about righteousness, the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. I enjoy your discussions on Calvinism, thanks. 🙂🙏🙏🇦🇺🇦🇺🦘🦘❤️

[@HerreraFamilyAdventures]

"I think it's unfair of God"- Dr. Flowers And this my friend tells us all we need to know. Dr flowers along with every other non-calvinist will always take the sovereignty away from God and place man in the driver's seat as judge and ruler.

[@leenieledejo6849]

Here's the answer to the atheist comedian the guy quoted: "You must be born again/born of the Spirit" (Jesus in John chapter 3).

[@larrybedouin2921]

The nature of sin comes from our living in a fallen world. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. {1 John 2:16} For Christ is the end [objective] of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. {Romans 10:4} That the righteousness of the law *might be fulfilled in us* who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but *they that are after the Spirit* the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but *to be spiritually minded is life and peace* Because *the carnal mind is enmity against God* for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. {Romans 8:4-7} I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then *with the mind I myself serve the law of God* but with the flesh the law of sin. {Romans 7:25} Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or *of obedience* unto righteousness? {Romans 6:16}

[@JuanGonzalez-kb3gm]

I know nothing about Calvinist, I hope I don’t offend or exaggerate anything with my question? Is it possible to think you are saved as a Calvinist yet die and not be one of the predestined chosen? Meaning can a Calvinist affirm their salvation? Is there a paragraph or web page that would support your answer. Thanks.

[@wesleydahar7797]

Assurance of salvation is something every Christian struggles with. It's part of the process of sanctification where we have to place our faith in the finished work of Christ and trust the promises of God to save all who call on the name of the Lord. There are also people who have false professions of faith, either by not taking their faith seriously and only participating in the outward motions or by not understanding the essential doctrines of Christianity in order to have true faith. The situation you gave could be a result of a false profession of faith for these reasons, but it has nothing to do with Calvinism. The idea that one could be a true Christian and also find themselves to be "unelect" on judgement day is not possible, because the doctrine of election states that election is the precondition for a person to desire and express true saving faith.

[@JuanGonzalez-kb3gm]

@@wesleydahar7797 The last thing I want to do is assume I know what they believe, and cast unfair criticisms. Thank you very much for breaking it down. It makes sense.

[@HJEvan]

God could be partial and still just because he owns us, we are his creation. God can do whatever he likes with his creation. I personally believe God does ensure things arrive at His intended destination for those things and so, in that way God does meet a higher form of justice. Yet, I don't think God owes people that much. When God talks about being good, I can only affirm that in a meaningless way... it's a 'goodness' that's different to what people usually think are good. Yet, piety will mean I will still affirm God is good, even though I can't tell how. I think God is both good and sometimes less good. The Bible says something like God is the author of both good and evil. We can't choose the good, right decision except God first gives sufficient virtue to us and places that in our soul.

[@melodybarbour3218]

James 1:13-15 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God;" for God cannot be tempted by evil, not does He Himself tempt anyone. [14] But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. [15] Then, when desire has conceived , it gives birth to sin; and son, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5). "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33)-and if that is true, He cannot in any way be the author of evil. Occasionally someone will quote Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) and claim it proves God made evil as a part of His creation: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (emphasis added). But the New American Standard Bible gives the sense of Isaiah 45:6-7 more clearly: "There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." In other words, God devises calamity as a judgment for the wicked. But in no sense is He the author of evil. Commentary from John MacArthur

[@kenfroehlich444]

“His wanters broken”….. and we can’t want good?…. but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die……. Seems God spoke otherwise.

[@demarleroux3766]

Already being inherently good judging by my good desires and free will to follow God make the notion of having to be born again redundant. Man has no idea how corrupted he is, only revealed until he is born again.

[@eric_sandstrom]

The problem flowers, your choices byproduct has to produce a supernatural miracle done only by God.

[@saraircrew8517]

If sin wasnt a choice then we wouldn't sin after being born again. We definitely are born with a sinfully nature but its still a choice. Even after regeneration.

[@wesleydahar7797]

That's not a strong argument against total depravity. To say that because people who have been born again and received the gift of the Holy Spirit are able to choose not to sin, doesn't imply that they had that choice to begin with. I would argue that the gift of the Holy Spirit actually implies more about our new condition being more able to choose to not sin than our previous condition.

[@saraircrew8517]

@@wesleydahar7797 I wasn't arguing for or against total depravity. I was simply saying that sinning or not is a choice. We are not forced to sin nor forced to make any of our decisions. A choice between two or more options are always in the cards.

[@wesleydahar7797]

@@saraircrew8517 I agree with that. I was just confused by the arrangement of your initial comment.

[@saraircrew8517]

@@wesleydahar7797 cool!

[@larrybedouin2921]

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you *life and death* blessing and cursing: therefore *choose life* that both thou and thy seed may live: {Deuteronomy 30:19}

[@andrewvandever2094]

13:23 - YourCalvinist identifies the comedian he quotes with the libertarian view, but is that apt? It seems to me that atheism entails determinism.

[@mlauntube]

How does the Calvinist view Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them-do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? Do they think that God just had a hankering for killing off some people with a tower with no regard to justice or righteousness? Or do they think that God decided not to control every last thing on the earth?

[@seansimpson1133]

Love leighton but I really feel like he’s not taking the influence of desire on determining what our actions will be serious enough.

[@thirdplace3973]

Don’t even enter philosophy, always revert to scriptural authority. The Calvinist wants to steer the discussion to philosophy.

[@Apollos2.2]

Totally agree! Also, I generally don't speak in relation to "fairness" but rather what does the Bible say. Chpt and verse

[@clintd3476]

In the voice of Helen Boucher (Waterboy’s mother) : “Oh, Bobby, Philosophy is the Devil.”

[@peterfox7663]

It's impossible not to use philosophy

[@thirdplace3973]

@@peterfox7663 No it’s not. Absolutely not. The debate isn’t about which position is more “fair” it’s about what does scripture say. Calvinists will always try to get a Bible-believer to take the bait on the “fairness” question so they can immediately run their script on the prison analogy. All this time it only matters what the Bible says.

[@Apollos2.2]

@@clintd3476 haha, bad philosophy can be... C. S. Lewis: “Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy must be answered.”

[@built4speed101]

3:52 Is this considered "unfair" according to Leighton Flowers? 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 KJV For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[@eddiesblacksmithingkjv9185]

God does not owe anyone eternal life.

[@decayedduck1miles464]

I lean towards Calvinist/Reformed Theology of scripture. I wonder if Leighton Flowers tries preaching the gospel to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons or Muslims as much as he tries to settle a debate that’s been going on for the last 16-1700 years. You can disagree with and debate James White and Jeff Durbin all day long, fine, but at least they’re out preaching the gospel to these groups. All I ever see Flowers doing is “trying to bring people out of Calvinism”. His words. Why doesn’t he try bringing people out of these true cults. When he does that, I’ll listen to what he has to say.

[@chrisswanepoel3842]

Read up on what Dr Flowers does in his 'day' job. You will see that preaching the gospel and helping other followers of Christ also do so, is what he spends the majority of his time on. Refuting Calvinism is a side gig for him that for better or worse gets a lot of airtime. I don't have a dog in this 'fight' but just trying to be fair...

[@chrisswanepoel3842]

By your own statement you do now need to listen to what he says...😊

[@IronSharpensIron127]

If a person is forced to a Calvinist building every week for 18 years he never hears the Gospel. 😮

[@randybrandt6459]

Apparently you were forced into the wrong Calvinist building. Every Calvinist church that I've attended clearly presented that we are sinners in need of a Savior and only Jesus Christ can save us from our sin, by grace, through faith alone, apart from our works.

[@IronSharpensIron127]

@@randybrandt6459 I was a Calvinist, it is an evil doctrine of demons, a false gospel. It is not the God of the Bible.

[@eric_sandstrom]

I don't believe flowers harbors the Holy Spirit. I got three reasons off the top of my head.

[@eric_sandstrom]

Praising a friend of his when he wrote a book about annihilation ism. Outward rebellion to God/The Bible 2. An unbeliever said flowers wouldn't come to God due to the doctrine of "Calvinism" 3. Speaks of Joel Osteen as if he is a Christian. 4. Has never made clear whether or not God wrote all the names of those who will be saved before time began. Even as a flowers are signed off during this video he downplayed SIN

[@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi]

You're joking, right?😅

[@bobbyadkins6983]

Sin a not a nature. A nature can be sinful but it's not sin. Sin is disobedience to God.

[@leenieledejo6849]

Sorry but it's such a red flag 🚩 when anyone calling themselves Christian instinctively refers to Romans 7 (always a misreading of) when asking a question about sin 🤦🏻‍♀️ Why not reference Romans 6???? Or the numerous other verses in Paul's epistles which back up what he says in *Romans 6*

[@marialamb6781]

You know, instead of using words like libertarian, just go to scripture. FREELY we have received......... the definition of freely denies determinism, does away with determinism. TOZER in his book, "the knowledge of the holy", tells us that we need to be very careful to believe everything that God says in the word of God. The word of God does not contradict itself. Calvinists ignore the word FREELY........ and that's just one verse that takes care of Calvinistic soteriology.

[@myselfpoker88]

calvinists remind me of the jews who crucified and rejected Jesus, blinded by their own so called wisdom

[@MadRedCarnelian]

If we are not able to Respond, we are not Response Able, aka responsible. Since we are responsible, we are able to respond.

[@mikelyons2831]

You can see how Calvinists approach everything in scripture with the presupposition that Calvinism is true, now prove to me it's not.

[@jayrodriguez84]

Can you be justified without having been born again?

[@mikelyons2831]

@@jayrodriguez84 I don't see how that would work?

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@mikelyons2831 Does regeneration precede justification?

[@mikelyons2831]

@@jayrodriguez84 Calvinism teaches it does. But I've never seen a single scripture to prove it. You believe, then you're saved. See Romans 1:16-17, 10 8-13, Ephesians 1:13 & 2:11-13, Galatians 4:8-9, 1 Corinthians 1:21, John 3:18, Titus 3:5

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@mikelyons2831 So your answer is no. You can be JUSTIFIED(DECLARED NOT GUILTY) AND NOT HAVE HIS HOLY SPIRIT SIMULTANEOUSLY? YOU CAN BE JUSTIFIED (HAVE CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS) AND NOT HAVE HIS HOLY SPIRIT?

[@user-oj7rr2tm8s]

This Calvinism/ Armenianism debate crap happens outside the Presbyterian and reformed denominations, just saying

[@koraegis]

It sounds like pride. There’s a way that seems right to man but leads to destruction. Leighton sir you are deceived.

[@Britt863]

It seems to me that our desires come from purely physiological factors, I don’t think we could possibly have freewill at all. Sam Harris and Robert sapolsky explain this pretty well. So freewill to me just sounds very fairytale-ish. It’s a nice thought, and it certainly sells lol. But logical? Nah

[@CosmicalChrist]

Have you read a counter argument from Dr Craig, Platinga and the likes?

[@Britt863]

@@CosmicalChrist well what’s the counter? I’m listening

[@CosmicalChrist]

@@Britt863 I'm actually a compatibilist like most philosophers. I'm simply saying don't read a source and think "slam dunk"

[@Britt863]

@@CosmicalChrist good advice. Can’t argue with that! I guess I should say freewill doesn’t *seem* logical to me. Could I be misunderstanding something? Absolutely 💯

[@leenieledejo6849]

Nonsense. Sin is a choice from the moment you are accountable for your choices and KNOW right from wrong. Everyone has a conscience and you cannot pretend that you do not. Sin is selfishness: choosing self above God and others and the more a person makes that choice, the more it becomes like an addiction that *seems* natural or that he can't control. If he's older and has ignored his conscience since forever - so that it's "calloused" - and feels like he's being controlled by his now corrupted nature, he can still cry out to God. I've heard many testimonies where people did just that. To hear them speak of being forgiven, healed, restored (made new) and *no longer* a "slave to sin" is always very moving.

[@MoBorbon]

What's with Calvinists and bow ties? lol