7 Marks Of A Questionable Doctrinal System | Leighton Flowers | Calvinism | Soteriology 101

When it comes to discerning what doctrinal systems are true or false, there are a few things you can look out for that could be red flags. In this video, Dr. Leighton Flowers walks through 7 Marks of a Question Doctrinal System, a list that was submitted by a Soteriology 101 listener. What would you add or remove from the list?
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• John 6:29: Is Faith a ...
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[@IlovetheTruth]

I hope you read this Leighton. Unless the Lord Himself tells you, NEVER stop speaking for the true gospel and against Calvinism. Thank you so much for your hard work and faithfulness to God's word.

[@user-zs2ly5qu3f]

Calvinism is the Goliath of our Time. And it's a shame that many Christians are standing in the camp of the philistines.

[@jimyoung9262]

Good stuff. The first time I ever heard Calvinism taught I was overwhelmed by the fatalism of it. I've always rejected it on a more intuitive level, because it is inconsistent with the character of God expressed in the whole of scripture.

[@a.k.7840]

the fact that they have to defend God so much is evidence that they started with the "doctrines of grace" and worked backwards instead of actually doing what they claim they did and start with God as revealed by scripture.

[@unitedstates3068]

@@a.k.7840 yep "doctrines of grace" = dog... got it backwards as you say😵‍💫

[@a.k.7840]

@@unitedstates3068 hah! What a coinkydink!

[@douggarrett5288]

@@a.k.7840 a what ???

[@douggarrett5288]

I just had a Calvinist tell me how lost I am.

[@bobthrasher8226]

8) Excessive appeals to "mystery" in comparison with other systematics which don't invoke mystery quite so much. Such overuse of mystery may be an indication of a faulty systematic.

[@trebmaster]

Conflating contradiction with mystery is one of their hallmarks, as is changing definitions of words like "sovereign".

[@RR-ue4im]

Bingo they ignore scripture

[@ironleatherwood]

Definitely

[@salvadaXgracia]

This!

[@martyt62]

Because they can’t reconcile contradictions in Biblical logic, they punt to “mystery” and quote Paul when he says “who are you oh man to argue with God.” (They use this passage out of context).

[@salvadaXgracia]

This is great. I would love to find 2 more to make this "9 Marks" 😂 I saw many of these problems when I was in Calvinism but I thought the Bible clearly taught it so I had to accept it. As soon as I learned the real meaning of Romans 9, and saw it was consistent with the rest of the Bible, I kicked Calvinism to the curb and got back to the Bible.

[@Swiftninjatrev]

now that's funny.

[@lancesteinke3732]

I’m actually appalled by how bad Calvinism is theologically and how adamant Calvinists are and have been of its ultimate truth. It’s mind boggling to me. 🫤

[@TheRomans9Guy]

Absolutely. My mission is to disprove it to them using their own scriptures. Kill this beast once and for all.

[@jeffreybomba]

There are plenty of isms based on the same number of fragmented, context lacking passages that are driven into the minds of people until they can see nothing else. It is basic brainwashing.

[@Pacheenee7]

I think it's more like Islam or Mormonism and they are afraid of shame or rejection if they change their stance. I've never met someone who became calvinist by reading the Bible, only people who were raised in it or taught it in seminary.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

@@Pacheenee7 completely right, in more ways than you even meant maybe. But the pride of association is key for them. They feel like they’re in the smart club. And they have all their idols. To reject Calvinism would be to have to admit that all of their heros, and everyone that all of their friends look up to have been so badly wrong about God and the scriptures. Idol worshippers like that have zero percent chance of growing enough stones to stand up to the kind of criticism that would come along with calling James White wrong about the Bible.

[@dfischer5878]

@@Pacheenee7 so Islam does not believe Christ is Lord….. Mormonism has many gods..,. Reformed theology believes in a Trinitarian God who is all powerful ; all knowing ; all loving and thrice holy! Sovereign in all things including salvation. Be charitable in your accusations

[@cvent8454]

Salvation is so simple to understand that even a child can understand it...and that's the point. Thank you Dr. Flowers.

[@dfischer5878]

Sure and salvation via a reformed person is just as simple.

[@cvent8454]

@@dfischer5878 but I highly doubt a child could understand the convoluted explanations of Calvinism.

[@markshaneh]

@@dfischer5878 Sure, only if God meticulously controls every single aspect and decrees it, only then will it be “ as simple “ Right?

[@dfischer5878]

@@cvent8454 the gospel is the same and that’s what’s to be understood. The doctrines of grace are biblical and come as we grow in grace and knowledge.

[@dfischer5878]

@@markshanehno not “ meticulously controls “ just reveals truth to a dead in trespass sinner

[@elteacher6410]

A Master Class delivered with humility. Thank you, brother Leighton. Thank you, Lord God, for the life and ministry of your instrument.

[@filipcruz7688]

This is great, Leighton. Calvinism has done tremendous damage to the Church of Christ. I have met far too many Christians whos say "God predestined me to be saved so I don't have to do anything". And that produces Christians that are lazy an feckless thinking that it's all been predestined anyway. If the disciples were like today's Christians, the Gospel would never have ever made it beyond the borders of Jerusalem.

[@dfischer5878]

That’s not reformed theology or “ Calvinism “ no one teaches “ I am if the elect so I do not have to do anything “ That’s hyper Calvinism and it’s unbiblical. No one knows who the elect are so we offer the free offer if the gospel to all men and Yes Mr. Flowers , God then does His work. It’s funny prayer is mentioned; do you all honestly believe prayer changes God mind? No it changes us to conform to His will.

[@raymatthews4319]

​@@dfischer5878You may call it Hyper-Calvinism but that is what is being taught today by the majority of its leaders. New Calvinism is especially guilty of doing that, they place their doctrine to the point of worshipping it over God.

[@jolookstothestars6358]

​@@dfischer5878Let me start of by said I just have some questions and I'm hoping you can answer them. Or a least maybe say I don't know. Q) If God elects all believers then if no one ever shared the gospel the elect would still get saved. This is extreme but sometimes thats where we need to go to get clarity. Any thoughts?

[@filipcruz7688]

@@dfischer5878 Most Calvinists and Calvinists of convenience: they adhere to Calvinism because all their friends are Calvinists. They simply buy into predestination on a gut level because it makes them feel good just going to church once a week and then living the way that they want without fear of consequences. It's not what the doctrine says, it's what they believe it says and act accordingly.

[@JeepYotaAdventure]

​@@filipcruz7688​ Just curious, how many "Calvinists" do you personally know? How familiar are you with the actual tenants of "Calvinism" ie Reformed Theology? While I find Dr. Flowers very interesting as I struggle understanding the conflict that lies in this discussion, I find it stunning that so many of his followers think Calvinism is dumb or makes no sense. Well, there are also PhD level Theologians who adhere to "Calvinism". They're not all idiots. I'm not saying they're all correct, I'm saying they just didn't wake up one day and say "I think I'll be a Calvinist". I've wrestled with this doctrine for many years. Sometimes embracing it, other days fearful I'm not one of God's elect. Some days, I hope Dr. Flowers is correct. I think Calvinism needs to be seriously challenged, but not by the ignorant arm chair quarterbacks who simply think Calvinism is dumb, makes no sense or there's not even a hint of God's Sovereignty in Election doctrine anywhere in scripture. Seriously???? John 6:44.. No one comes to me unless the Father draws them... Rom 3:11... There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God... Acts 13:48... And as many as were appointed / ordained to eternal life believed... John 15:16... You did not choose me, but I chose you… So tell us how you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ if you are dead? How do you become alive? How can you "accept Jesus" when the Bible says you don't have the ability? Let's at least have some honesty and integrity discussing this. "Most Calvinists..." Your entire statement about Calvinists was incorrect, dishonest and very disingenuous. You didn't further the discussion in any matter. Go back and study history & theology then come back and give an informed opinion. Perhaps go to a Reformed church and actually meet some "Calvinists". They're actually some pretty nice folks, but yes, all sinners in need of a Savior.

[@nickmeltonmortgageman4814]

Thank you so much for this explanation and the beautiful picture of a God who sacrificed Himself to give us the chance to choose Him.

[@juanpablocastromora]

Amen. Thanks for fighting for this thruth.

[@raymatthews4319]

The only verse in Scripture that I can find where God took pleasure in a death is Isaiah 53:10 "yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him." That refers to Calvary where Christ died for our sins.

[@loricarl9261]

mic drop

[@robertmwangi1452]

"True power is about sacrifice and selfless love for those who are your enemies" Amen !

[@josiahbristol6973]

@Soteriology101 Dr. Flowers, my brother in Christ. I am 19 years old and have grown up in a reformed church that mostly identifies with Calvinistic doctrine. I became a member of my church at the age of 10 and was baptized the same day. The Lord God has led my footsteps and guided my path all my life. I've always agreed with the Biblical viewpoint of Calvinism my entire life, as that is all I've really known. Thank you, Dr. Flowers for your videos and the arguments you bring against Calvinism. While I haven't watched very many of your videos, of the handful that I have watched, your videos have greatly challenged my Calvinistic beliefs and challenged the beliefs that I've always grown up with. From the videos that I have watched, I have pondered greatly in my mind whether what I had grown up believing was actually true. I always pause your videos at least twenty times and rewind certain parts many times to understand what you are saying and to make sense in my mind the two arguments and which one makes more sense to me in accordance with the Scriptures. I've gone over the Scripture you bring up in your different videos and read them over and over again to dusect them word by word to see what I believe these certain passages in the Bible that cause such controversy are saying to me. After much deliberation through reading the Bible and considering the arguments you bring against the Calvinistic beliefs that I had grown up with Dr. Flowers, I truly believe that the doctrines of Calvinism are Biblical. I've wrestled with this controversy ever since I discovered your channel a little less than a year ago, but I still stand in the Biblical beliefs that I have grown up with. Even though we have doctrinal differences Dr. Flowers, I truly believe that you are saved, as you profess your belief in the Gospel of Jesus Christ in all of your videos that I have seen. Thank you again, Dr. Flowers for your videos and thank you again for challenging my faith. I will continue to watch the content you release in order for my faith to be challenged. You are my true brother in Christ, Dr. Flowers, and if we don't meet in this life here on earth, I will see and meet you in glory in the presence of our Lird God in Heaven above. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you now and forevermore, Dr. Flowers. Amen.

[@climatematters6632]

Methinks he doth protest too much! 😮😂

[@dfischer5878]

Soli Deo Gloria!

[@JamesS805]

I once asked my Calvinistic pastor “How do I know I’m among the elect?” when in a deep period of doubt. He told me that even among hypercalvinists, that’s not really a question. Even at the time, i saw that that answer isn’t satisfactory in the slightest. Thanks for all you do, Leighton.

[@reg7916]

That is a great point you make that determinism is easy, flat, basic to understand by really anyone.... except when you try to make it fit in the Bible... hmm big red flag 🚩 and definitely NOT a good idea🌻

[@jolookstothestars6358]

Amen to your opening statement!!😇

[@paulinerelph]

Calvinism perfectly explained, thank you. The Emperors Clothes; a great analogy with what Calvinists do.

[@twaho]

Love you brother Leighton, like a soldier of God, the more they push, the more you hit back in love. Peace

[@John-Christchurch-NZ]

I've finally realized what Calvinism is about, its about defending Calvinism not the Bible. You have to follow their thought process to understand what they believe. If you just read the Bible you never will. It's like going down the rabbit hole, theology in a tube. You can't argue with them, because they can't see out of their hole. The Bible is a Narrative, God's Story, from Genesis all the way through to Revelation. We have an invitation to be part of it. Calvinism is a usurper that tries to impose it's own ideas on to the message, completely ignoring the story.

[@daddyrock9159]

Leighton knocking down threes!!

[@johndisalvo6283]

WEEDS!

[@gintas38]

Great summary. I like the most the part on how simple the determinism is and on how it becomes complex when you try to force it on Scripture. Great work

[@Steve-og4ii]

Without doubt, one of your best videos! I hope to be able to memorize those 7 points!

[@janetdavis6473]

What do people say when you ask them what part of Calvinism they think you don’t understand?

[@allieoop2908]

Yes! We arent victims, but willing participants "So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? “If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but YOU SHOULD RULE OVER IT" (have dominion)

[@dfischer5878]

Sure through the Spirit we can mortify sin, but we will continue to do this till glory since scriptures teaches we are not fully rid of it till then.

[@deewitt3746]

Amen, Brother!

[@beehive9851]

Amen keep preaching brother!

[@loripassos4514]

**QUESTION, COMMENT** HELLO 👋 I hope you see this and possibly comment. Love your videos and thank you because after 20 yrs as a Christian and just two weeks thinking Calvinism was accurate I started to watch you and as God intended I was led away from Calvinism and gleaned a correct understanding! I was watching a few of your videos the last few days. Just watched your debate with White (😖 grrr) from 8 yrs ago. I completely agree with your teaching on provisionalism. God has really been teaching and directing me over the last few years and giving me a lot of discernment. I thought about this analogy relating to total depravity and inability to choose. How about AA? I actually after years of alcohol and drug abuse God led me to AA. The first three steps of AA are Admitting powerlessness, Understanding that there is a power greater than ourselves who can restore to sanity, and submitting to that higher power. Now I well know that AA is not Christian but their literature clearly speaks of God as Higher power (although AA does appeal to all by saying people can use anything greater as their higher power but the intent of God is specific) There have been many many people who've had victory over their alcoholism (sin) through AA. I did. And I've also seen many people come to Christ afterwards. Exactly how God led me to Jesus. Basically the first three steps are kind of like coming to Christ in Humility. So it's my thought that AA kind of blows Calvinism out of the water. If mankind is totally depraved and has no ability to go to God on their own then how does AA even exist and work for so many people??!!! If we are so depraved and have no ability on our own then how do so many go to AA and admit their sin of alcoholism and recover? I just thought that was interesting. For me I was in AA for 7 yrs when I was introduced to a Christ Centered support group for addiction at a Baptist church. At that time AA wasn't really enough for me and all my issues of sin. I was invited to church at that meeting and I attended that Sunday and I finally got the Jesus piece of the puzzle I had been missing for 30 yrs! Ever since I was little I believed in God but went the way of the world. And I sure did fear God on many times I just didn't understand it all. But in hindsight 40+ years later I see how God continued to lead me to the Cross and prepare me to humble myself in repentance. Someone I was quite fond of in AA who had been sober almost 20 yrs also finally came to Christ. So Awesome how God works in everyone's life. God wishes no one should perish but that ALL would come to repentance!

[@johnknight3529]

"And I sure did fear God on many times I just didn't understand it all." He sure does seem to me to want us to understand for ourselves, and so be able to love Him, not just fear Him.

[@SavedByFaithInChrist3681]

My Pastor (ThD, Baptist, Pre-Mil Disp, inconsistent Calvinist) was teaching the Total Depravity as literal dead bodies must be raised from dead. Exact analogy he uses. Then says we have freewill but God is Sovereign (Calvinist version). I wish I’d found Leighton earlier as it took me 2 years to figure out. I’d look into what the guys he named believed, many weren’t even Baptists but yep, one thing in common-Calvinism. Sitting under an inconsistent Calvinist is torture on the mind then the constant gas lighting, bullying, strawmanning, Red Herring, just makes things worse. He’d never want to debate me though. I’d ask him how can libertarian freewill and determinism co-exist. I was like a dog chasing my tail. Never get answers to any of this, just more gas lighting, bullying, etc. He once told me to be a Baptist I had to affirm the “Doctrines of Grace”, I said well you don’t affirm all the doctrines of Grace, so does that mean you aren’t a Baptist..? I expect consistency from my teachers. One reason, while not agreeing with, I do respect John Gerstner and R.C. Sproul. They understand what they teach. I only wanted to spread the Gospel but he wouldn’t help me. Wouldn’t let me on board but his son in law on board and came to church about once every 2 months. Of course he’d be at board meetings to vote however pastor wants him to. Then put his son in law’s mother on board. Told me I couldn’t be on board cause I questioned some of their (meaning his) doctrinal beliefs. I finally told him, all these guys you name, Arthur Pink, Jonathan Edwards, John MacArthur, J.I. Packer, Whitefield, Zwingli, John Knox, and so on would say your God isn’t Sovereign at all. He can’t stand people like Arminius and Wesley btw 😒. He doesn’t speak to me much anymore nor does much of the congregation. I feel a bit like a Leper there now cause I was so zealous about wanting spreading the Gospel. My wife and I were two of most active members there. I had thoughts on splitting the church but glad I never acted on them. My wife and I are currently looking for a new church but we (and he) are in California and a lot of strange doctrines there. Unfortunately this ordeal has caused me resentment, anger, almost derailed my walk for awhile, and has caused me to not be anywhere as zealous for the lost. I literally used to put on my 3 piece suit I was married in to read scripture and Pastor required us to pray afterwards. I’d beg God in prayer to let us come together to do His Will, to spread the Gospel. I made a sign with John 3:36 on it and stood at the road since beside major road with lots of traffic. Wrote a tract and did 700 door hangers. Crickets when I’d walk into church. John Bunyan forgot the “Pit of Theology” in his book Pilgrim’s Progress. Took me 3 years to get out but I’m still working on getting my walk with the Lord back to where it was at. Thank you Dr. Flowers for making these videos, you’ve helped this wondering Pilgrim.

[@ChaplainPeter1]

Read the biography of John Bunyan. He was the most tormented person, unsure if he was one of the elect. Yet because of his faithfulness, contending for the faith, the Lord honored him with dreams in prison and wrote Pilgrim's Progress

[@Steve-og4ii]

Calvinism is spiritual darkness! It's no wonder people have difficulty seeing their way out! Please be encouraged, and keep listening to people like Flowers,who have been freed from that doctrine. There are many like him. One principle that helped me determine what is true,is ; discover the ROOT,OR ORIGIN of a doctrine. If it's roots are evil,that's all you need to know. That might sound like over simplifying, but there is great light displayed in it!

[@cjphillips90]

Thank you for the video. Commenting for the Algorithm.

[@larrybedouin2921]

Calvinism thinks to makes God double minded.

[@caroldonaldson5936]

In short, Calvinism is not faith but fatalism! But they don't see it because *they don't understand Calvinism!* 🤦

[@wesleycardinal8869]

Thanks for your work in putting all this together, it's really appreciated. One comment on your delivery, I felt you were tripping over your words a little and almost leaning into the camera. I had to suppress then urge to lean back :) Take your time, you know the subject, breathe and keep your feet on the floor. Thanks again. 👍

[@kevinteichroeb6997]

Anyone who says, "I am a Calvinist," is saying, in essence, "I am of Calvin." I am not of Paul, or Apollos, or Christ, but of Calvin.

[@timothyrauscher19]

This was a good one, brother. Compelling points made.

[@annakimborahpa]

1. I never encountered Calvinism in my life until a few years ago when I came across Dr. Flowers' witness on youtube during the pandemic, so the following is my own intuition as from an outsider looking in. 2. The distinctiveness of John Calvin's theology appears to me to be that he combined what heretofore had been two separate creative principles of good and evil existing in some ancient religions like Manichaeism (meaning that were was an author of good and an author of evil) and posited both principles into one Godhead, i.e., that there was only one God who was both the author of good and the author of evil: A. In Manichaeism, the followers of the author of good were predestined to be members of the kingdom of light and the followers of the opposing author of evil were predestined to be the members of the kingdom of darkness. B. In Calvinism, those who were predestined to be members of the elect were saved and those who were predestined to be reprobate were damned, both by the same one God. 3. As John Calvin wrote in his preface to the French edition of his Institutes of the Christian Religion published in Geneva in 1545, the reading of the Bible was to be understood only after first reading and memorizing the Institutes. Today, memorization of the Dr. Loraine Boettner's TULIP, also known as "the doctrines of grace", suffices to program one's mind to Calvinism. 4. In establishing this doctrine of deterministic dualism in one God in his Institutes of Christian Religion, John Calvin claimed these writings were (A) actually authored by the same one God and (B) therefore not of his own authorship. 5. Everything that follows after this basic deterministic and dualistic premise of Calvinism, as commented on in this video by Dr. Flowers on the list submitted by one of his listeners, is a lot of hemming and hawing on the part of Calvin's followers in the attempt to justify his teachings, since his followers are convinced that they are (A) the members of the elect and (B) therefore saved, preeminently.

[@VictorFelipe82]

Excellent video!

[@gene4231]

Some Calvinist teach that God does evil. The bible teaches that this is close to blasphemy.

[@dfischer5878]

🤦‍♀️

[@bobthrasher8226]

In Systematic Theology, has anyone undertaken to come up with a set of rules to ferret-out bad systematics? Maybe this work has already been done? It would be nice if there was a compact list of powerful rules....

[@unitedstates3068]

@beyondthefundamentals may interest you on this topic

[@kvelez]

12:50 Good story.

[@gracemercywrath8767]

9:40 yes and amen

[@brich2542]

Two of everything. In opposition. Sounds very dualistic.

[@gk.4102]

They do this to make Calvinism unfalsifiable.

[@primeobjective5469]

Yes, Calvinists theologians have made Calvinism unfalsifiable and, therefore, unable to be tested to see if it is of God: 2 types of God's will: Will of Decree vs Permissive Will 2 types of God's love: General Love vs. Salvific Love 2 types of God's grace: General Grace vs. Irresistible Grace 2 types of God's calling: General Call vs. Effectual Call 2 types of faith in God: Non-salvific Faith vs. Salvific Faith 2 types of death & resurrection: Non-atoning sacrifice for the Reprobate vs. Atoning sacrifice for the elect. 2 types of divine life: Regenerational life before faith vs. Eternal life after faith. Their implications generate a false god who commands obedience, but has SECRETELY decreed DISOBEDIENCE, for the GOOD PLEASURE of His Will to glorify Himself.

[@kevint4412]

Your content has blessed me. I never followed Calvinism, but I find it odd when some Calvinist are more committed to their calvinism beyond what seems appropriate. Your arguments are mature, gracious, logical, compassionate and helpful! Keep up the good work! By the way, if you know of some good churches in the Cypress/Houston TX area please let me know.

[@alexanderhuang4333]

I lived in Houston for two years and had the honor of being able to serve with Ashford Community Church in the Energy Corridor. We also had good friends who served at Victory Christian Center near Cypress and Launch Houston closer to downtown.

[@greenbeans4796]

Calvinist apply their man made systematic framework to the text and then turn around and say things like scripture alone.

[@penbenner2319]

Should calvanism be called satanism 😮 instead

[@johndisalvo6283]

YES, ABSOLUTELY

[@DamonNomad82]

I would say so. The "god" of Calvinism has much more in common with Lucifer than with God as He is revealed to us through the Bible.

[@AidenRKrone]

I was an Amyraldian for some time. But three logical problems inherent in Calvinism were always at the back of my mind: 1) the declamation that unregenerate sinners are to be held responsible for not accepting Jesus as their Savior, despite being literally prevented from doing so; and 2) the insistence that Jesus's death on the Cross was intended only for the elect, despite the Bible clearly saying that He died for the whole world; and 3) the claim that God doesn't directly damn people to Hell, only to election, but if He doesn't allow some people to come to Christ, then by deductive reasoning we must conclude that He _is_ sending them to Hell. Those three problems eventually broke my "faith" in four-point Calvinism and led me out of it.

[@duanewilliams3061]

Another awesome video! I had a question, do they believe in what scripture say about apostasy? ... because the term itself rejects calvinism.

[@joeysanx1]

That's one they try to evade. It's like you said, the definition of the word itself, rebuke Calvinism. ἀποστασία - apostasia - ap-os-tas-ee'-ah Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake. Cognate: G1370 (dichostasía), G646 (apostasía), G868 (aphístēmi) And scripture like this confirms it: Luk 12:45-46: "But and if 👉that servant👈 say in his heart, 👉My lord delayeth his coming;👈 and shall begin to beat the 👉menservants👈 and 👉maidens,👈 and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 👉The lord of that servant👈👉 will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware,👈 and will cut him in sunder, and 👉will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."👈

[@dfischer5878]

How so? I john 2:19.

[@gk.4102]

Well, Calvinists and OSAS people believe that apostasy means unbelievers falling away from salvation they never had; or unbelievers stop professing faith they never had.

[@larrybedouin2921]

​@@gk.4102 True! Which is totally irrational.

[@dfischer5878]

@@gk.4102it aligns with the wheat and tares. There will always be unbelievers mixed in with believers and if they don’t fall away , God will sort them out.

[@kevinteichroeb6997]

Now, apply this list to Dispensationalism...

[@rickyc-bolt2331]

Amen!

[@Azurewroth]

Redefinitions for me is the biggest red flag. When you have to redefine common words to enable and protect your doctrinal system and then go on to redefine more terms to enable previous redefinitions I think it's probably time to reconsider if your doctrine is actually sound. They redefined "All". Really? What's next, 'World"?

[@shredhed572]

Yes, they quibble over that word too Also, every, whosoever, whatsoever... Kind of like a lawyer would do (Calvin was a lawyer)😅

[@kuhatsuifujimoto9621]

yes. they say that "world" means it includes all the nations but not everyone from all the nations.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

Does God ever fail? I would argue that He never fails. If it's His plan that none perish, but some clearly do, does that mean God fails? It must mean that it is not God's plan that all are saved, because God can't fail.

[@kuhatsuifujimoto9621]

@@TheMaineSurveyor thats cool logic, but it simply doesn't follow scripture

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@kuhatsuifujimoto9621 God is love. 1 John 4:8 Love never fails. 1 Corinthians 13:8

[@andrewmorse2181]

I had always tried my best to read my bible as plainly and clearly as possible, letting the words speak to me. It wasn't until I was exposed to Calvinism, and started discussing it with my Calvinist friends, that I started reading my bible with presuppositions. I was looking for and rediscovering verses that spoke of God's design and plan to work with and even despite our own free will, to bring a savior to the world, a savior who would be rejected by those he was trying to save and still did it with love and Grace. I was constantly looking for things to "prove a point" or disprove Calvinism. Its an unfamiliar feeling and I don't like it. I'm looking forward to getting back to just reading the Bible plainly, and to just plain learn about God.

[@paulinerelph]

Yes, Christianity from the God- inspired apostolic gospel writers survived for 1500 years before the doctrines of John Calvin and His followers.The faithful Holy Word of God is all we need and can trust. Psalm 146 3 John 14 6🎉

[@andrewmorse2181]

@@paulinerelph Thanks for this. I've been told to my face that myself, the Holy Spirit and the Bible are not enough for me to understand the Gospel.

[@paulinerelph]

@@andrewmorse2181 And no one reading the bible alone, like you say, would ever come up with an understanding remotely like Calvinism. Psalm 146 3

[@binusnbayothegrey]

Please is there a written article on this video podcast? I will love to have it in written form

[@edsnyder2801]

Jude 1: 3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was Once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept into unawares , who were before of Old Ordained unto this Condemnation. Old- ancient, a great while ago, of old, in time past. Ordained- applications of above, ago, before and ever. Condemnation- to avenge, condemned, damnation, go to law, judgment. Ordained- To write previously, prescribe, before ordain, in applications of: above, ago, before and ever.

[@lilylev830]

Do you have a teaching on PSA?

[@pastorthomaso]

While I enjoy the lofty discussions on the finer points of doctrine, I suspect there is a much simpler explanation for the allure of Calvinism. The idea of determinism/predestination essentially appeals to one's pride because the idea that they are "chosen" in the sense that Calvinists use the term, makes them feel special and superior to those who are excluded on a deeply subconscious level. I really believe it's that simple. This is why they have such a difficult time admitting their error...because they are bewitched by the notion that they are more loved, important, chosen, etc...than those who are not predestined. I truly believe this is where the discussion needs to start with most Calvinists. But pride is a powerful thing. :/

[@SSNBN777]

Yes. The average Calvinist cannot tell you what double predestination is, and their jaw drops to the floor when informed. The U in TULIP should also include Unconditional Rejection.

[@kuhatsuifujimoto9621]

i think much of it is just due to trying to make God the most powerful thing possible and trying to iron everything else out logically.

[@labsquadmedia176]

Not enough thumbs to put up.

[@williammarinelli2363]

Sorry. Need to put the thinking cap on and come up with two more...so a 9 Marks of a Questionable Doctrinal system could be published.

[@getrit3007]

Just believe what you read on both sides. 1 Timothy 2:4-6 (KJV) 4 Who will have 👉all men to be saved👈, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a 👉ransom for all👈, to be testified in due time.

[@BPond7]

My English to Calvinism Dictionary says that the definition of all is some.

[@getrit3007]

@@BPond7 obviously

[@lmorter7867]

I could believe in divine determinism if I didn't read and study the Bible.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

The kind of determinism Leighton argues against is not "Calvinistic."

[@lmorter7867]

@@TheMaineSurveyorIf you are referring to Compatiblism, it still contradicts scripture.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@lmorter7867 I don't know what that is. I just know that God is not the author of sin and that we have an ability to make choices, in contrast to Leighton's claims about what "Calvinists" believe.

[@lmorter7867]

@@TheMaineSurveyor Calvinism, a form of reformed theology, teaches divine theological determinism - God determines every event that occurs in the history of the world. It is impossible for God to determine every single event that happens and for humans to determine what happens at the same time. Either we have freedom to choose to go against God's will or we don't. Can't have it both ways. Those of us that do not agree that scripture teaches divine determinism would disagree on the definition of what absolute sovereignty means. We believe that God has absolutely sovereign and has absolute authority which allows Him to decide what level of freedom He will give His created beings and how He will accomplish His ultimate plan of redemption. Ultimately His plan will be accomplished despite of our unwillingness or willingness to cooperate with Him. This is why there is evil in the world. It comes from sinful creatures.

[@philipmusser3136]

This isn’t on-topic with this discussion, but I’d really like to a response to my question and comments below: Explain to me WHY Calvinist biblical scholars or learned Calvinist Christians would WANT to believe in the TULIP principles? There is such an overwhelming amount of scripture contrary to their belief system and so fundamental to the Bible that I believe that Calvinists WANT to believe their systematic structure for their own messed-up personal reasons. I would like to see a light shined on these messed-up reasons and the negative impact it has on their ability to live an effective, joy-filled Christian life. The Calvinist Christian life seems so devoid and limited. Their modus operandi would seem to be almost exclusively focused on the edification of pre-destined Elect believers (their own kind). The rest of the world is just out-of-luck, and they would only share the Gospel with them in case any of them are among the Elect and don’t know it yet. Although if they don’t share, no big deal, God will reach them with irresistible grace anyway. I feel like Calvinists are NOT really co-laborers with me in Christ and this is grievous. They can only give Hope to the pre-destined and have a jaded view of the rest of the world as souls destined for destruction. How sad is that?

[@shredhed572]

I found a list online of 100 calvinist proof texts. I wanted to give calvinists a fair shake. If I had found the claims true I would be a defender of calvinism today. What I found was that in every case but one, if I included the context, ex: who is speaking, about what specific issue, to whom...etc, that the passage NEVER even implied what they claimed, but the contrary of their claim. And the one odd verse was ambiguous at best. Calvinists never use context. So it would seem easy to fix - just show them their error. Easy peasey. Right? No way Jose'! To the true believer, there's what I call a mind virus, or brain washing, they act like ppl who are in cults, where no amount of persuasion seems to break through. It's truely baffling and fascinating at the same time.

[@philipmusser3136]

@@shredhed572 It is truly baffling

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@philipmusser3136 I believe what I believe simply because Scripture demands it. God said it, that settles it. Therefore, I believe it.

[@dfischer5878]

We believe it because it’s all throughout scripture . We are called to believe it and share it . A true believer ( yes reformed believers are truly regenerate) longs for God to show others the same mercy He showed us; since none of us deserve it. We then give Him all the glory. How can someone give God the glory ( He actually demands) if we had a part in obtaining His gift of faith? The answer is we couldn’t; He’d have to share it with us.

[@philipmusser3136]

@@dfischer5878 The amount of scripture that says that salvation is for everyone dwarfs the amount of scripture that implies anything that could infer limited atonement. The gymnastics required to overlook or twist the amount of scripture that says that salvation is for “all”, “everyone” and “whoever” is astounding. Why would you long for God to show others mercy? Do you think your longing is going to change God’s sovereign predetermined will? Your belief says that God is in total control, and He’s already predetermined who’s going to heaven. Why would you long for something that could be contrary to God’s predetermined will, since you don’t know who is Elect and who is Reprobate? Can’t Christians give God the glory for giving us a role in leading others to faith? The role and responsibility are given by God, so how would that diminish any glory due Him? God did share His truth (the Bible) and power of His Word so that we will use His Word to show everyone that faith in God is available to all if you choose Him (thru belief in Jesus’ redemptive sacrifice).

[@jaonatohinirina565]

Calvinism's idea of glorifying God is to make Him unreachable which is coincidentally similar to the Pharisees. It transform salvation into a mystery. You either comply or you were never a believer.

[@climatematters6632]

If Leighton has made a mistake with this topic … it's that he has chosen the wrong number of attributes to watch out for. I think the '9 Marks' of a questionable doctrinal system would have been far more appropriate! 😮😊😂🤣 or 29 Acts which will characterise bad systematic Bible teaching! But that's just the way my crazy brain works I'm afraid! 😊

[@garybonz]

To believe in Calvinism is to believe God is doubleminded !

[@T.Ravikumar]

Calvinism is easily one of the most stupidest systematic. Anyone who's truly saved (after realising his own sinful nature & the value of Christ's work) will outrightly reject the BELIEFS of Calvinism.

[@dfischer5878]

Or be made humble because we see the depths of our sin and the mercy of God.

[@T.Ravikumar]

@@dfischer5878 That's the point I was making.

[@SantaFe19484]

"You don't understand Calvinism". If it so hard to understand, you just gave me another reason to not be one.

[@jeffreybomba]

Aren’t there entire Calvinist denominations founded on the idea that active evangelism is an affront to God’s sovereignty?

[@franklee7943]

8 Calvinistic Beliefs vs.THE BIBLE : What's The Difference???... Calvinism : Jesus Died ONLY for the Elect alone. BIBLE : Jesus Died for ALL (2 Corinthians 5:14-15, cf. John 1:29, 6:33, 6:51, Colossians 1:20-23, 1 Timothy 2:6, 4:10, Hebrews 2:9, 1 John 2:2, cf. 5:19), including those who DENY Him (2 Peter 2:1, cf. Luke 22:14-21, Hebrews 10:26-29, Jude 1:4). Calvinism : Jesus is The Propitiation ONLY for the Elect alone. BIBLE : Jesus is The Propitiation NOT ONLY for the Elect alone, BUT ALSO for the WHOLE WORLD (1 John 2:2, cf. John 1:29, 6:33, 6:51), which includes ALL UN-BELIEVERS (1 John 5:19, Revelation 3:10, 12:9, 16:14). Calvinism : God Gives Saving Grace ONLY to the Elect alone. BIBLE : God Gives Saving Grace to ALL (Titus 2:11, cf. Isaiah 45:22, Luke 3:6, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, 4:10), but some Receive It in Vain (2 Corinthians 6:1), and Fall Short of It (Hebrews 12:15), and Pervert It (Jude 1:4-19), and Reject It (Galatians 1:6, Hebrews 10:29). Calvinism : God has Mercy ONLY on the Elect alone. BIBLE : God has Mercy on ALL (Romans 11:32, cf. Psalm 145:8-9). Calvinism : God does NOT Want All to be Saved. BIBLE : God DOES Want ALL to be Saved (1 Timothy 2:4-6, cf. Isaiah 45:22, Ezekiel 18:23, 18:32, 33:11, Matthew 23:37, Acts 17:30-31, Romans 10:21). Calvinism : It is God's PLEASURE to Doom the Wicked to Destruction. BIBLE : God takes NO PLEASURE in the Death of the Wicked (Ezekiel 18:23, 18:32, 33:11, Matthew 23:37, Romans 10:21). Calvinism : God has Decreed ALL Things. BIBLE : God has NOT Decreed All Things (Jeremiah 19:5/ESV, cf. Isaiah 10:1, 30:1, 55:8-9, Hosea 8:4, 1 John 2:16), but He has ALLOWED All of the Nations to Walk in their OWN Ways (Acts 14:16, 17:30). Calvinism : Election is According to a Mysterious Secret Un-Conditional DECREE of God. BIBLE : Election is According to The FOREKNOWLEDGE of God (1 Peter 1:2, cf. Jeremiah 1:5, John 6:64, Acts 2:23, Romans 8:29, 11:2).

[@somethingtothinkabout167]

True power is about being willing and able or capable of regulating and limiting the exercise of that power. Nature does not have this ability.

[@jamesjohnson8918]

Before Jesus. Eye for eye. Tooth for tooth. Cash register religion. After Jesus. Empty tomb .Saved by grace. Forgive wrong doers. How can that be improved?

[@penbenner2319]

Every time I’m hearing or thinking of the false misleading narratives in the name of Jesus my blood boils

[@carlandre8610]

Thank God Jesus died so we cpuld get our inheritance, the Kingdom of God. JESUS is the heroe in this story and rightfully to be praised a King who came to serve.

[@timmy1tap678]

If Calvinism is true what's the point of spreading the Good News?? What's changed? You still will be saved cuz God predetermined it or he didn't. The Good News means absolutely nothing to us since we have absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. We just sit and wait to see whether irresistible grace shows up, or it doesn’t. WOW!! What great news!! Yeah let me share the Gospel with u!! Oh btw, u can only believe if God decides to force u!! If He chose to not allow u to believe, then soon he'll torture u forever for not believeing that which He chose to not allow u to believe!! Amazing news huh??

[@ChristDiedForYou_liveforhim]

See salvation is kind of like a birthday party and cake or something

[@alvinservana7655]

Sadly, this dogmatic blindspot contributes to the confusion in contemporary culture, creating a whole lot of straw-men for Christianity. All this religious hegemony of Calvinists should be properly confronted.

[@gmbgmb]

Calvinism comes off as cultish to me, and anyone who happily follows it comes off as non-empathetic to me. i am so tired of hearing "just be grateful that God chose you even if others were not chosen"...... that is an absolutely disgusting, greedy, selfish, lack of empathy way to think.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

Cultish? What leader would I be defending from criticism? I’m merely defending my understanding of Scripture.

[@dfischer5878]

I know of no one who believes biblical reformed theology that does what you accuse. They instead are grateful for God’s mercy ; knowing how undeserving we all are. We long to see unbelievers saved and plead with God on their behalf. If I’d be honest it seems cultish to me for someone to believe they had the ability to chose God before He opened their eyes. Must be some kinda superpower! Oops then they have reason to boast.

[@gmbgmb]

@@dfischer5878 a Calvinist pastor said not too long ago “if God only had 70 plain tickets for 70 people to go somewhere nice and you were given the last ticket then just be grateful that you even got a ticket”. Sir…… the world is about to end, the flood is coming (not a literal flood but I like to use that wording. We all know that what’s about to happen is far worse than any Noah’s ark days). Be grateful that I got a ticket? We need to get EVERYONE on the ship, forget about me getting a ticket! I am willing to lay down my life for everyone who did not get one…. So much so that I’m even willing to give someone mine, I’ll take someone’s suffering. This mentality is selfish, greedy, and lacks empathy. And when the pastor was saying it didn’t even look like he cared about anyone who wasn’t getting a ticket. This is terrible, my heart is CRUSHED.

[@nicknovello5589]

MacArthur has done much damage to the body of Christ. I’m not angry with him, but I’m concerned for him. His theology is all human construct.

[@keepitrealoriginal]

The only reason why I can see you persisting with the calvinism is you truly believe they are lost and you know that lordship salvation is false and you're trying to wake them up gently that they follow another gospel but I think the Bible says we're supposed to mark and avoid them and I understand there's people in the churches that don't understand it and that's why we have perpetual infants all over the place being led by perpetual tweens .you get what I say or you don't but satan managed to use a great revival to keep everyone in infancy not undetstanding growing up. Deeo dive in your strongs and GODS wotd>> stewardship Inheritance Faithfulness Prize Reward Reach Outer darkness Servant Churches Watchman

[@Gablesman888]

Is this now Leighton Flowers' mea culpa? His teachings appear to fall into most if not all seven of his seven marks of a questionable theology. You be the judge. I think this may go back to Leighton's Romans 9 debate with Dr. James White. White gift wrapped Flowers in that exchange and Flowers just has not recovered. Today, Flowers appears to be going off the deep end.

[@truthseeker5698]

Deep end delusions from you again G888. You’ve been hooked cult , line , and sinker. The deprivation of your experience is showing. Be more self-aware if you’re willing G888.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@truthseeker5698 This "cult" charge is not becoming. Agreement with "Calvinistic" doctrines is not akin to being in a cult.

[@truthseeker5698]

@@TheMaineSurveyor Absoluteky cult like. Do a quick google search and you will find more than several positions /arguments that demonstrate cult worthiness of calvinists/ reformers. Sola de exposed more everyday .

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@truthseeker5698 I believe what I believe because Scripture demands it, not because of people at the other end of a quick Google search. Additionally, I'm not responsible for any of the misapplication or behavior of others who claim to believe the same things as me. I could say Leightonists are cultlike. Does that make Leightonism wrong? Not necessarily. We must go to Scripture, rather than Google.

[@truthseeker5698]

@@TheMaineSurveyor and when the google search brings up scriptures to support the. i’ll of calvin them what ?? What a self-absorbed response that your theology demands . Sola de keep surveying !

[@edsnyder2801]

I Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offensive, even them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto they also were appointed! Disobedient- to disbelieve (wilfully, perversely), obey not, not persuadable, the idea of not being able to persuade true or false through argument. Peter says that these false teachers were also appointed! Appointed- to close the eyes, ordain, before, katabolla, to throw down, to cast down. These false teachers have no understanding of The Oracles of God, nor The Doctrine Of Christ!

[@robinq5511]

Quoting from a commentary re "appointed" [G5087]: Here tithēmi is normally translated in a predestinarian sense-appointed, destined-as if God foreordained people to stumble. A. T. Robertson in a quote says: "Their disobedience is not ordained, the penalty of their disobedience is." God as to His very nature cannot damn apart from judiciary action! People are judicially damned for wickedness, not by decree (cf. Rom_9:15; Rom_9:18; Rom_9:22; Rom_11:20; Rom_11:23 and notes) [LNT, fn s]. 1Pe_1:2, Exo_4:21, +*Deu_10:15, Job_23:14, Pro_16:4; Pro_19:21; +*Pro_21:30, +*Isa_30:33; Isa_37:26; Isa_49:6, Mat_24:51, Luk_2:34; Luk_12:46, Act_2:23; Act_4:28, Rom_9:17; Rom_9:22; Rom_16:26, *Gal_6:8, 1Th_5:9, 1Ti_2:4; 1Ti_2:7, 2Ti_1:11, *Tit_2:11, Heb_1:2, Rev_17:14.

[@edsnyder2801]

Peter understood the covenant theology of Our Lord from Genesis to Revelations! Peter and Paul were very much of the same mind and the same spirit striving together for the faith of the Gospel! Peter completely understood the parable of the wheat and of the tares. Peter completely understood that the tares were and are the children of the wicked one! Peter completely understood that the enemy which soweth them is the devil! Peter completely understood that The Lord was building His Church, And that the gates of hell, shall not prevail upon His Church! 2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not, and shall utterly perish in their own corruption! Peter understood that the tares in the church world today would depart from The Way Of The Truth "Jesus ". Peter completely understood that the tares in the church today would wrest the scriptures unto their own destruction! They believe that the Lord came to save the tares, the false prophets, these workers of Satan who truly believe that the tares are also the children of promise? These teachers and All who follow them are very confused! And are unable to rightly divide The Word Of Truth! For they are speaking evil of The Way Of The Truth, All In The Name Of John Calvin! As if these are John Calvin's Words? Roman's 16:25-26 Teaches that "God ", has "Commanded " for the Preaching of Jesus Christ to be according to the revelation of the mystery of the Gospel, which hath been clearly made known unto All Nations and All Men! So any thing less than The Word Of Promise, to The Children Of Promise, that the purpose of God according to election might stand? IS ANOTHER GOSPEL!

[@edsnyder2801]

I guess you also believe that the ungodly men of old, spoken of by Jude, who have apostisised from the faith that was Once delivered unto the saints, were not ordained unto this condemnation? It sounds like you do not understand the Oracles of God from Genesis to Revelations, which also is The Doctrine Of Christ. The church world today is walking in transgression of The Doctrine Of Christ! And the masses are deceived! Just as Jesus and His Word hath warned Us! For anyone who truly believes that Christ came to save the ordained false prophets? And All who follow them? Have departed from the faith that was Once delivered unto the saints, as found in Ephesians. Peter says that these people were made (ordained), to be taken and destroyed!

[@KISStheSON...]

Unbelievers are victims of God... the fact of the matter, indeed 😢

[@jasont2986]

The 1 mark of a questionable doctrinal system is the existence of the doctrinal system. The Bible is the biggest source of inspiration for your walk with Christ. Read it.

[@davidhorvat700]

God showed no mercy to angles and only 8 were saved from the flood. Quit twisting what you think God clearly says . Gods ways are not man’s ways nor His thoughts our thoughts.

[@caleschnell]

God is a doctor who wants to perform spiritual heart surgery on us all for us to be like Him in method, motive, character. The Calvinist position perverts this-says man has a 'totally depraved' human nature and are now 'legally guilty' of Adam's sin for robbing God 'of His due honor.' This is again-in complete contradiction with Ezekiel 18:20 and the following verses *as well as other places* that are hearts are naturally distrusting of God as it says in the book of Romans-He has set eternity into our hearts according to the book of Ecclesiastes. Mankind are naturally theistic at heart-it's merely the fear, distrust, and lies we believe about God that lead us away from the healing balm His Spirit is trying to supply unto us for complete unification with Him. God does not give us a Spirit of fear-but a Spirit of love, power, and self-control. He wants to restore autonomy into His people. Christ Himself told the Pharisees that *IF* they were the children of Abraham they would have committed themselves to the *works* Abraham had done. But because of the Augustinian penal-legal lies original sin, satisfaction theory, and penal substitution theory tells about God-people are *destroyed* for a lack of knowledge. They do not understand that God *already* forgives but not does He already forgive-He's wanted to righteousness into *ALL* of His people-right motive, right intent, right thinking, and right doing. The penal-legal model of salvation has no cleansing power. It merely has a form of godliness that denies the power thereof as 2 Thessalonians 4 says it does. You can thank Augustine, Anselm, Martin Luther, and John Calvin for developing this blasphemous wine of Babylon doctrine that it is. Christ will *never* come back if we continue to lie about His Father's character of love and make Him out to be a Father who needs the blood of an innocent human sacrifice to 'propitiate' His wrath then declare that person who accepts the 'legal payment' to transfer His legal standing in some heavenly legal transfer by God from a 'transgressor' to 'innocent.' That is silly and is not consistent with reality itself; it is *fantasy.* God is a God of reality-not fantasy. God's law is *design law.* Any sin whether of a physical or spiritual nature will persistent, testable results where we are out of harmony with the laws of physical and spiritual health are built upon. This isn't hard to understand but much of Christianity-especially those of a Western, Augustinian bent will suggest God's law works like human laws do. A system of rules without inherent consequence that the rule-giver is required by 'justice' to punish those who break His law/rules. God's law is as immutable as God Himself. The sinner brings himself out of harmony with the laws of physical and spiritual health leading unto death both spiritually and physically. If you actually look at the immaculate conception of Mary doctrine that the Roman Catholic Church espouses-you will see clearly that it came in origin from Augustine of Hippo from the adoption of original sin-the idea that all mankind was in Adam and are now held legally guilty and are now have a totally depraved human nature that only the Holy Spirit can regenerate which of course complicates the incarnation of Christ. This this doctrine then developed into the satisfaction theory of atonement developed by Anselm of Canterbury-the theory that Jesus' death satisfies the just wrath of God incurred by breaking His holy law. This in turn developed into the penal substitutionary theory of atonement four hundred years later by leaders of the Reformation by Martin Luther and John Calvin; both of them being a great admirer of Augustine-Luther himself was an Augustinian monk. Thus, these doctrines of men have perverted the Gospel by making a divide between the Son from the Father and the Spirit; made justification by faith merely a transition of legal standing from guilty to innocent and then stating said person who is set right with God do not have a new heart and right spirit because they are not saying the quiet part out loud. They are basing that God's law functions no different than the laws human beings make. A system of rules without inherent consequence that require the rule-giver to police breeches in the rules by enforcing imposed penalties to law-breakers. God's law is *design* law-God is Creator-His laws are the laws upon which reality operate. Every deviation from His design protocols whether physical or spiritual always have consistent, predictable results that does not require the rule-giver to police breeches and pull up record of said breeches to assign a certain amount of punishment to. Anyone promoting the penal-legal model of salvation is distorting the character of God and making it harder to see the Creator but much easier to assign God as a divine Roman Caesar who must be propitiated or His just law. However, when we come back to design law-it is us who must be in harmony with His design laws and have His law-His character-written upon our hearts as Jeremiah chap 31 states. Let me know what you think of this. So much of Western Christianity, Protestantism and Catholicism, espouses this imposed law construct of God and His law which makes so much harder to see Him in His true light. “The great men who built up the Western Church were almost all trained Roman lawyers. Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine, Gregory the Great (whose writings form the bridge between the Latin Fathers and the Schoolmen) were all men whose early training had been that of a Roman lawyer,-a training which moulded and shaped all their thinking, whether theological or ecclesiastical. They instinctively regarded all questions as a great Roman lawyer would. They had the lawyer's craving for exact definitions. They had the lawyer's idea that the primary duty laid upon them was to enforce obedience to authority, whether that authority expressed itself in external institutions or in the precise definitions of the correct ways of thinking about spiritual truths. No branch of Western Christendom has been able to free itself from the spell cast upon it by these Roman lawyers of the early centuries of the Christian Church.” Thomas Lindsay, _A History of the Reformation,_ vol. 1, pg. 168 Zechariah 4:6 - Not by might, nor by power, but by how my Spirit works, saith the Lord.

[@dfischer5878]

🤔He wants to? He somehow can’t? By no means, He does so to whom He choses

[@larrybedouin2921]

​@@dfischer5878 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. {Acts 10:34-35} Again... But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God. {Romans 2:10-11}

[@caleschnell]

@@dfischer5878 More Calvinist drivel. You are presupposing Augustinian anthropology where man is completely spiritually dead and legally liable as man was in Adam when he transgressed God's command. Everything God makes is upright and innocent; the recapitulation model of salvation clearly shows that through Christ is the destruction of death, sin, and Satan himself-Hebrews 2:14, 1 John 3:8, and 2 Timothy 1:10 clearly outline this reality. Reject this neoplatonic Gnosticism you've grown accustomed in believing and cleave unto Christ the true Branch wherein we have a newness of life.

[@dfischer5878]

@@larrybedouin2921agreed , how does God saving sinners ( since we are all dead in sin and trespass; all deserve hell) go against that verse? It supports the fact that He saves sinners not for anything we have done but for His own pleasure.

[@larrybedouin2921]

@@dfischer5878 And he said to them all, "If any man will come after me, *let him deny himself* and take up *his cross daily* and follow me.” When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

[@HeavenGuy]

God never died.

[@dfischer5878]

One God in three distinct persons coequal; coeternal . Jesus humanity died

[@HeavenGuy]

@@dfischer5878 - 1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

[@seangreen1992]

I'm a Calvinist and a determinist. I challenge @Soteriology to a friendly debate. Right here right now.

[@shepherd7744]

I hope all bible believing Christians are done debating all of you calvinists, all of you are so past even desiring truth, I pray NO Christian ever debates another calvinistic leader again, simply we keep right on exposing the lies and contradictions of this Augustinian philosophical system, that is nothing more than post-hoc rationalizations on why the bible isn't true. The ones pushing this false narrative gave up on truth, it's their own arrogance and love of their systematic, they are unspiritual, lacking faith, and are filled with arrogance and pride, completelyblinded and deceived to the ABSOLUTE natural and simple reading of scripture in context. We continue to expose the truth, and watch the gradual FALL of this lie, as I have been watching the tide slowly shift as their lies are being exposed, meticulously, and using using clear spoken explanations of scripture IN CONTEXT through rational thought processes . We were asleep at the wheel, and the calvinists, very studiously used the internet to grow this lie, but the same tool you used to build this lie, is the same tool that my Father in heaven is using to destroy the lies against His Gospel of PROVISION for ALL that humble themselves before Him. Wake up, open your eyes, be willing to look at the truth, until that moment happens, you will NEVER see the truth.

[@unitedstates3068]

feel free to upload a vid explaining how you make Calvinism and a determinism fit scripture. Make another one on Luke 10 (The Parable of the Good Samaritan) as to why the "god" of Calvinism looks more like the priest and levite, (having already caused the man to be robbed, beaten, left for dead) than the good samaritan which is who Jesus says to go and do likewise..... hypocrisy???

[@seangreen1992]

@@unitedstates3068 I'll answer your questions here if you stick to one thing at a time.

[@seangreen1992]

@@unitedstates3068 Anything that God does is good simply because He does it. We have no right to judge Him. Secondly, why don't you try defining the word choice without using a synonym of choice.

[@bornagainbeliever1429]

@@shepherd7744 Amen 🙏🏻

[@rodneytruitt9335]

As if the provisonist does not have a problem with prayer, when it comes to salvation. You say God does not effectually call a person. God does not cause a person to be saved. Then you pray that God would save someone. So you pray to God to save someone and believe God does not actually save people by His doing, at the same time you do this. At least a person who believes that, it is by God's doing we are in Christ, 1 Cor. 1:30, prays knowing it is God who has to do something in order for anyone to be saved. It would seem we both have a problem. I believe in a God who saves according to His choice and if I understand you correctly you believe in a God who does not actually save people by His doing, meaning He is the cause of it. And yet we both pray. So please explain. Thanks

[@robertwheeler1158]

Well, I guess we'll have to write off the Apostle Paul as a false teacher. Instead of just simply accepting the simple, easy to understand gospel of Provisionism, he spent 11 chapters in Romans delving into such abstruse topics as human depravity and predestination. And then, at the end of it, he concluded by saying "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!" (Rom. 11:33). If only Paul had just simply read John 3:16 and left it there, he would have been a Provisionist!

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

The meticulous control/determinism that Leighton argues against is a strawman.

[@lifelinesoutreach]

Are you Born Again?

[@ArborReal_Life]

These seven things could reasonably be applied by non-trinitarians to trinitarian positions. The hellfire doctrine could equally be scrutinized. Also, I can't stand CS Lewis, as a paragon of Christianity. I watched dozens of these videos and I truly can't see how the exhortation and instruction found at 1 Corinthians 1:10-29 can be realized. No way I will throw my cash at this or similar channels.