Talking New Priest Talent Trees w/ Growl, Rivenz, Ceredas & Publik

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& Ceredes!
Hey guys! Blizzard recently released talent trees, for all 3 Priest specs - so I decided to invite on 4 Priest players to talk about their experiences and thoughts on these new talents. In this video we'll be going over all 3 specs, and their potential strenghts/weaknesses, alongside potential changes that we might think Blizzard needs to make.
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Introduction & Going over the Priest Talent Tree: 0:00​​
Power Infusion: 9:05
Holy Tree: 34:55
Discipline Tree: 52:40
Shadow Tree: 1:17:18
#maximum​​ #liquidmaximum

[@Fermented554]

Thank you Max for taking the time to put together these talks. Much love

[@Kevinator1996]

These types of conversations are sooooo helpful. I remember when Bay from Finalboss TV (god what a shit show that situation was) was doing it back in alpha and beta for legion and BFA and for a little while in SL until he got cancelled. These are so helpful for those of us trying to pick a main for next xpac.

[@Mindseas]

This was indeed an excellent discussion, learned a lot! Look forward to more of these, thank you

[@calvinhobbes5524]

Love the video, hopefully you do this for the rest of the classes. Also for sure for shamans!

[@darkwhisperings4641]

I always feel like blizzard is unsure of what to do with shadow, like is it a multidotter, a burst funnel, a 2-3 target cleave spec? Must make it hard to balance when a.) your not sure what it’s supposed to be and b.) there is already better options with class utility that they bring versus shadow…but the class theme is so strong and has so much potential. Kinda sucks that the class tree has so many dead branches, and is arranged so weirdly.

[@endocry]

Shadow is good

[@tiyangina3571]

​@@endocry shadow is a spec that they have been trying to get "right" for years now, they revamped it at the start of sl only to immediately nerf it to the ground. shadow lifted off again with 4set, only to be nerfed to the ground. Shadow is treated like the unloved stepchild of casterspecs in the game and if you take one look at the kind of sugar moonkins and warlock have been getting for years now you'd see that. Shadow feels good to play, its buttons are fun to press. On a single target training dummy. When i dont have to give away my pi, when i dont have to move and are in competition with hunters and firemages, or have a single add that literally everyone else benefits more from cleaving on than me, because my spreadable dots do jackshit and my big dot is only really worth it if stacked on a single beefy target. And the best about that is that even at my super small "nieche", being a single target monster, im not even the best at that. enhance shaman are better at it than me, and they can cleave better, are more mobile and more durable. Oh and if a fight is even ever so movement intesive, Im immediately bottom of the barrel vs the other st specialists. So yeah, Shadow is good, only when it not. which is currently.

[@endocry]

@@tiyangina3571 QQ

[@ughitstravis9243]

Yeah the tree is really ineligant

[@krentzza]

Really inciteful discussion. Thanks for organizing this Max. And thank you to your guests too

[@wolfstien1337]

Thank you for taking the time with our class experts, I hope Blizzard listens to this and take it to heart.

[@mindermast25]

every video I've watched has had different play styles and talents used and picked. Excited to see how it pans out

[@whostheree]

Thank you max for your stream and your videos on content with WoW. I get it, that there isn't a whole lot going on but this keeps my interest and sure it does others

[@RupeeNL]

I'm kind of hyped for Shadow to be honest, despite it being a bit of a weird spec tree right now. Disclaimer: I'm a casual player, not a WF raider. We have a lot of tools: quick DoT spreading with Misery, Unfurling Darkness and/or Damnation, great cleave with Mind Blast via Vampiric Insight and Psychic Link, group off-healing with VE and San'lyan, single target burst with Mindgames, Mindbender, Monomania and Void Torrent, group utility with Mindgames, Mind Restrain and PI, own sustain with Shadow Mend & Masochism (10% DR) and Mental Fortitude shields, and - with Shadow Crash and Idol Of N'Zoth - uncapped AoE that's not dependent on Mind Sear or Searing Nightmare (thank God). Maybe a bit of a 'jack of all trades, master of none' spec, but I like it. Sims might prove that choosing Void Eruption > Hungering Void > Ancient Madness in the middle row is the best DPS choice, but I appreciate the option to not choose it. I could see myself going for a full Shadowy Apparition buff build for example. Not for topping DPS, but just for fun.

[@calvinhobbes5524]

growl is right. My guild is only an aotc guild and we all love to compete against each other on the meters.

[@AlexanderForsman]

PI is like master looter: It's great as long as you're not playing with petty assholes.

[@Damocles450]

I mean, you can say that about any aspect of the game lol.

[@ARGOS-THOR]

these videos make me so happy to watch

[@aidanrezvani9295]

For these moving forward I think it would be cool to make all your expert guests have what they think is the best build for x content (before the show) and then they all reveal theirs and see the differences if any….then discuss.

[@llopgee2601]

Yes they don't know what their on about half the time

[@Moistureyes]

@@llopgee2601 They're*, If you're incapable of spelling a word when there's no pressure, imagine trying to consolidate your thoughts and put across exactly what you mean while on a livestream and in a call with 4 other people bud.

[@shacysuo4642]

As a priest player (quit after sanctum) thank you max and everyone else who were involved to produce this. Really excited for this new approach of giving all combined borrowed powers as permanent powers! Lets see what happens. Love or hate wow, I can't think of a better dig out of the hole they themselves created.

[@Tyler-os3mc]

This is my favorite video I've seen about WoW in a while. I got into priest this expac and enjoyed it a lot. Really looking forward to it in dragonflight.

[@laurensderuiter4595]

Really like these talks, can you also do it for the other 2 classes that have been released already?

[@alexis1156]

If legion shadow had a way to spread dots in aoe, it would have been great, and maybe a little less ramp up time. I definitely preferred the voidform mechanic.

[@tobiasnilsson9661]

Disc priest is finnaly becoming everything ive dreamed of for le last 5 years

[@Nightfury2ssIG]

I really wish they'd remove searing nightmare and making shadow crash multi-dot everything. And make the majority of damage come from apparitions, which is by far the coolest thing about spriest.

[@RealTastyApple]

For starters, I think putting PI in the Disc (and Holy?) talent tree only would be an improvement, at least for the quality of life of raiding Shadow Priests. (It used to be like this in past expansions.)

[@Kryptic712]

that pvp talent for holy priest where they make the angel you spawn into when you die, there is a pvp talent that just makes that an on use bubble effect, you can't lose health or mana, you also can't move... but for 8 seconds you're invulnerable and can free cast. that would be dope to see as like an S tier talent at the bottom row

[@riichardbmc]

Not even 5 seconds into Growl intro and i'm dying laughing. Dude funny af don't know why

[@oliassoliass5622]

I like the idea that PI give you a forbidden like debuff

[@jqd209]

Make mind sear a spender and give it a %chance on tick to spread and/or extend dot effects as like a 2 point talent upgrade instead of searing nightmare. The longer you channel it, the more insanity it drains

[@ShellyBBird]

Yes!

[@senimaru8669]

We need this round table for dk and druid!

[@danpopa1182]

Fun thought for a devouring plague rework, casting devouring plague costs a full bar of insanity. A and starts with 10 stacks…does small amount of dot dmg and lasts 1 min. Each full channel of mind flay, mind blast or every time a shadowy apparition hits a target with DP a stack is dropped and does a burst of dmg. Change SN to be plague nightmare and make it so that mind sear will spread DP to a target that doesn’t have Dp with each pulse. Make shadow priest built around having the plague devour the enemy. Kind of like popping the pimples with UH DK!

[@ExoKiller4]

The thing about Disc is that every damage talent is a healing talent, I can't imagine you do much for raid healing other than take all the atonement stuff and then as much DPS as possible.

[@some_day_soon]

I'm kinda sad they have never revisited Mind Spike. DoTs have always been an issue for shadow, so I feel like offering an alternative playstyle that removes some of the DoT aspects could enable it's damage to be more relevant in different scenarios. That being said, I've always enjoyed the DoT aspects of Shadow. Thanks for setting this up, it was a great watch!

[@poro9084]

oh yeah, that was fun during pvp on cata

[@Kyrones]

This new format of videos makes me PI my mom

[@thunder9236]

I think it would be cool for a talent for holy/disc with power infusion that causes like 10% of the targets damage to heal your group.

[@Shadowxjen]

Happy that as disc priest i get renew back. It feels so bad not to have anything to heal over time without a mobtarget.

[@tobiasnilsson9661]

Pi can be fixed by just putting a stored dmg on a priest spell based on a % of the dmg the target does. So for example you PI a lock and 5% of the dmg he does ofer 15 sec gets stored on the priest PI. You can then use PI again on a friendly or enemy trget to heal/dmg the stored value as a dot.

[@_ViIe_]

Max, not a pro WoW player but has anyone suggested that PI be a full buff for the priest, and a small % haste raid wide, instead of a singular target? Would that remove the element of "selecting" a receiving player, whilst maintaining the damage addition to the group? [I'm envisioning some type of debuff preventing too many applications back to back so you couldn't stack half a raid team of Spriests but how would that core idea work out do you think?] Example: Raid wide 5% haste stacks with Lust/Warp/Heroism default. Twins Talent: Raid wide + priest gains original personal PI haste buff]

[@bobisadrummer]

I'd love to see Searing Nightmare have its damage removed, but spread VT, SW:P, and DP to nearby targets as well as proc Shadowy Apparitions. That'd be such a welcomed change.

[@ricolasalle8836]

That is exactly what they need lmao. I was saying a similar thing for feral Druids too

[@rivas623]

Max I would love to see you go over the trees with top pvp'ers, I think bringinf in mes for dk and whoever else for the other classes would be great. Because a lot of these choices are actually great in a pvp perspective

[@NateLyell]

This. It blows my mind how these PvE'ers just completely ignore that aspect of the game sometimes or the possibility of a spell that they deem pointless having purpose in PvP situations. I had this thought when they were talking about PI and discussing removing it completely as a spell simply because PvE guys get frustrated over the meta game of how the spell is commonly used in raid.

[@Kryptic712]

imagine vampiric embrace for disc... there used to be an older version of vampiric embrace back in cata, 3% of all damage is seen as healing for the entire raid. so if VT hits for 100 per second, SW:P hits for 100 per second, DP hits for 100 per second. 3% of 100 is 3, so you would see 9 health gained per person per second. it's insignificant but it put shadow priests as a fraction of a healer. shadow would routinely come just under the healers and some tanks. i'd like vampiric embrace to take on that old style, with the on use effect to be what it is now. and to have that as a baseline talent would be sooo coool

[@MistressOP]

man his dog is going to work behind him lol

[@EthelbertCoyote]

Still waiting on priest changes, anyone have any idea if anything is being adressed?

[@antonkoch1634]

Hello Max Imagine if they turned PI into a raidwide buff (budget BL on 2 min cd) It could scale kinda like Devo aura used to with the haste% decrecing the more people that are affected.

[@ac833]

Please please please do this with every class!

[@vruteo2077]

100k!

[@scottyoung6564]

Other problems with the shadow priest tree: There are at least 10 talents you can take without taking vampiric touch (at least two that are mandatory to make it to the 20+ section) that do not work if you don't have vampiric touch. There are even more that only partially work without it. No shadow priest will ever not take it, so it shouldn't be a talent (same with devouring plague) It has 10 (?!?!?!) more points than the frost DK tree There is no synergy between passive talents and utility talents like vampiric embrace Most of the air talents assume you are taking shadowy apparitions, but half of those don't require you take it. Some solutions: that shield from over-heal could be used on VE with a path too it including buffs to VE to make that feel better, damage buff could apply to anyone you've shielded via VE too VT should swap with mind flay. DP and searing nightmare should be dependent on mind flay and mind sear respectively. Damnation should be in the same choice node as Misery. Dispersion should move to the main tree (as stated in video) path into mid tree should come from either mind flay side (into vampiric insight) or mind sear side (into spirits). Middle of mid tree should focus on void eruption as it does now. Insight side should split into VE w/ healing to shield and shield to damage buff (making one or more SP a support DPS) or the void torrent w/ dot buffs on mind flay target. Spirits side should split into the VE sub-tree and a spirit focused tree. Move around bottom tree so you are picking between the path to C'thun/Yogg-Saron or the path to N'zoth/Y'Shaarj, with spirits going to C'Thun/Yogg-Saron, void torrent going to N'Zoth/Y'Shaarj and VE getting buffs to pick between the two (though obviously never taking Yogg-Saron

[@Dcawthon41]

Just make the ability give either bonus holy/shadow damage (dependant on spec) and then just give it a proc chance, so it's relatively even for everyone. That way if you give someone PI as a holy/disc then it's dealing holy damage and then if you're shadow make it deal shadow damage. That way it shows up on details/logs as a damage type that can be attributed as the priests damage.

[@emocatte]

Would be cool yeah, my exact thoughts. Coming from both playing FFXIV and WoW, dragoon has a buff that gives themselves damage, and you target another player to give them a buff aswell, but can completely just not give it out. It would be cool to see PI stay a haste SELF ONLY buff for priest, but can target another player with the talent, will make it so you get haste, and you give a "Infused" buff or something that just gives like a % bonus holy or shadow damage buff to the targeted player. Something that wont massively change a playstyle and be universally usable. PI on haste targets is way too valuable, changing to just raw % damage would be easier, just give it to your highest dps target for max value. Haste has massive impacts on rotation situationally specifically on spec's like assassin burst windows, demonology imp count etc etc... Would be easier to just change it from haste for consistency reason and stopping the /whisper spams for PI. THIS or change PI to be lust. Give another healer ability to lust and gut PI. Worse option but, would be useful for M+ melee comps.

[@ZomgZomg007]

i 100% see in dragonflight classes also getting hit hard with a nerf bat due to PI stacking

[@stewart1155]

No flash concentration? I really enjoyed that play style

[@Time4N3R0]

man i love growl that intro keked me out

[@chrisness]

I love PI how it is hehe. Also the priest tree is amazing. Dispersion in the class tree would be nice

[@Uko980]

PI should be a self buff it would be so weird if you could put a warriors recklessness on someone else or any other classes major cooldown on someone else. Its annoying dealing with people going gimie PI its a hassle.

[@Damocles450]

I mean, you hit the nail on the head: "It's annoying dealing with people who want PI." PI, itself, is a perfectly fine ability. It's the people that make such a big deal out of it, because of how it elevates classes throughput that make it feel bad; NOT THE ABILITY ITSELF. It's like Max said: If people stopped caring about logs and meters so much, then PI would become a non-issue.

[@Uko980]

@@Damocles450 Lets be honest though we have a better chance of working together to stop world hunger or global warming than get people to stop being petty about things like PI lol.

[@duvelfav5189]

Nice gathering

[@SHSscorp82]

Maybe they could make PI a raid wide 5% or 10% haste buff? I feel like this is the kind of thing they dealt with when it came to Dark Intent which they changed to a raid buff & then removed all together.

[@DiegoVelayarce]

Kind of disrespectful fronk didn't put GIGACHAD Hanz in the thumbnail

[@skrabio]

I always thought PI should be enhanced to a group buff like from Urh, or even just make it a lust.

[@Yvaelle]

I'm thrilled they took my recommendation to lean into the talent tree model: I've been saying that's the cure to borrowed power for the last 2 expansions! In classic fashion they take my main recommendation and made it shit. I said they should stick to the 3-choose-1 system and just give us 20+ rows of customization options, and instead we have: a fever-dream of 2004 design. Always love the priest-chat, I was so excited to hear they are redesigning talents for Dragonflight and... now I'm still glad I quit. Probably not coming back, but happy to follow along from the post-wow shadows. Good luck to all my priests! I hope they hear all this feedback.

[@Darksoulsfail]

twin suns should be baseline pi, so even if you have to give it, you always atleast get the bonus yourself

[@eonarose]

Warcraftlogs devs need to implement the fflogs system or something like it, and at the very least the parsing issues for PI would be dealt with.

[@maximenadeau9453]

No one talks about the fact that you can have spirit shell + rapture now, SS doesnt replace raputre now

[@TheGamedMind]

THe problem is more that there is nothing that is competitive from the priests perspective. If you had PI and it gave maybe just 15% haste, but you had to choose between having PI (which you could cast on yourself OR someone else) vs something that gave yourself even more damage than selfcasting PI, but it was only for you, then it would be fine as a talent. But this way it's basically a no brainer.

[@ryanbuckland5378]

give shadow priest priest the old dk ability Pestilence where mind sear spreads all their dots and maybe another ability on top of that. idk i think that would be neat

[@TURBOGABBA]

I got a question. So this talk is with the perspective of a high-level player, where these changes probably have the most impact. So what would these changes mean to a more casual player, are they even noticable?

[@foxsraidvideos1297]

personal cooked take for pi: give it 3 charges and a 1m cd, applies 10% haste which cannot stack on other players, but does stack--additively, not multiplicatively--on the priest. would allow flexibility for raid dps cds, spread the buff out at a lower individual effectiveness so dps would be less butthurt, priest gets to have fun, and in m+ it would allow you to either juice all 3 dps at once during lust on a boss or alternatively go pack to pack juicing whichever dps happens to be popping off, albeit by a smaller amount

[@DeathSusanoo]

Did this get re-uploaded ?

[@DeathSusanoo]

Ah bruh I wanted to watch the video before this lol this just got uploaded right when I clicked on his channel so I was like "why are all the comments gone" lmfao

[@DeathSusanoo]

@@MikiiWay yeah man i wont hide my stupidity 😂

[@cafeLumes]

Change PI so it gives main stats instead, so it doesn’t matter as much who you give it to.

[@KaX321]

Using PI for healing... If, instead of haste, it gave versatility, or just flat damage/healing then the possibility of using it on a healer using cds (maybe you) or a tank, or a dps doing aoe burst for adds, or whatever opens up.

[@MissMarvel_]

I don't think you've done a talk on feral with an actual feral druid, but feral's tree suffers from the SAME issue of having AOE and ST just thrown out all over the place. We have to take ST talents for AOE and vice-versa. Also that Berserk (very bad CD, not worth being a 3min) is spread out all over the place as 4 different talents. And we are maybe just not going to pick it at all. We'll play a spec without a main CD because spending talents elsewhere is more DPS.

[@OorVona]

If PI in its current for is so polarizing, why not make it still external but more of an "aura" buff. Blizzard mentioned they thing the support buff play style is traditional in RPG's and i agree. But why not make it tied to say the playstyle of spec using it. Disc can by tied to your shield, The effect would be weaker but it infused all your shielded targets with there highest secondary state, Holy can be tied to renew, and shadow can be a party 40yard style buff like windfury and the new rouge stuff. This still provided the "aura master/bard" style gameplay, allows the priest to enjoy pressing the button as well as removing the polarization. Would require a huge rework and reduces to numbers like 5-10% over 25% but could fix a lot of issues while facilitating potentially multiple healing builds. Could have 2 holy priest in a raid, 1 is speced to get "buffs" and heal and the other is just 10 billion% on heals.

[@Jimmothytv]

Feel like the only way to make people happy with PI is to make it a bloodlust effect. I personally enjoy giving people PI as a healer but too many people get upset about it.

[@kirstysadler3816]

No one talking about missing flash conc, its such a fun playstyle idk if I can go back to holy without it

[@LifelessIsBeat]

I see a lot of this sentiment, but I dont understand it. Flash conc doesn't really seem to change your gameplay in a meaningful way, and, to me, it just seemed more like more mindless buff upkeep for more throughput. What about it's playstyle appeals to people? Not trying to be shoot down others' preferences, just curious why it appeals to folks.

[@budlifegreenhouse]

Yea greater heal in pve was fun while it lasted.

[@Markus-zb5zd]

flash conc is only good because the rest of the baseline kit of holy is so underwhelming,... flash heal, heal, Prayer of Healing, they all suck hard

[@ceredas8184]

Didn't get to talk about it unfortunately. While i like playing with it to some degree, mostly because it makes your spothealing extremely impactful, I'm not too surprised that they didn't turn it into a talent. The issue with flash conc is that it pushes other spells out of your rotation: PoH, CoH, Renew, even PoM (if you're not running Benediction) are barely worth pressing in shadowlands.

[@Markus-zb5zd]

@@ceredas8184 yeah but the problem is that Heal is jsut too weak and slow and flash heal is just too weak as well and too expensive, with either of these fixed there is no need for flash conc.

[@igbl108]

My perspective on the shadow tree is that yes it is bad, but if there were less 2 and 3 point talents you would be able to pick utility. why is shadowcrash 2 points lol Edit: i love shadowflame prism and it very fun unironically

[@themanhands5599]

PI option 1: Infuses your target with power, granting you and them X rating of their highest secondary stat and a chance to proc extra damage or healing with all abilities. Cannot be cast on self. PI option 2: Infuses your target with power, giving them a chance to proc extra damage or healing with all abilities. When they proc damage or healing in this way, you get X haste rating, stacks to Y. Cannot be cast on self. You get all the upsides of a buff like PI existing, but it's useful for everyone, and you can track the damage/healing under the priest. Done. Fixed.

[@pietsnotty8283]

The passives of renew make it so that you dont cast renew because its applied freely

[@b3tuki]

Redesign mental fortitude and make sanguine teachings give a stackable dmg buff (3 stacks) whenever you get healed/overhealed by vamp touch/DP

[@ciaranm3083]

Is Hans Nobbel87?

[@Izuall69]

One of the things you didn't talk about PI is the fact that now ALL SPECS will MOST LIKELY have the double PI talents. even Holy wich was not a thing frequently seen during Shadowlands. A raid with one of each specs will mean a lot of PI available for everybody. I see it as less of a headache to manage.

[@riichardbmc]

Missed JB with the crazy takes btw.

[@justinmarzan8599]

Hotw should be the most powerful version simply because you have to actively press healing spells to do that healing instead of just pressing a button and doing passive healing off dmg

[@Misspickless]

no druid tree discussion? :(

[@slapstick9047]

Maybe it’s just me but i think it’d be sick if you could get a pvper to come in and talk about the tree as well. I know you don’t. Are about it at all but maybe comparing the ideas from these talks (like dispersion on the main talent tree) and seeing what they think. Plus i love listening to mes talk about dk, it’s a good time

[@Aggrofool]

Is Holy going to be bottom-tier with Mist again?

[@thunder9236]

I'm glad to see Lightwell come back, but the initial version was trash. It required players to click on the well to receive healing. I always got trolls who spammed it and players who avoided it. You had to spec in to it automatically being used on players and it was alright then

[@Lapouchy]

I think that Blizzard shot themselves in a foot with Legion Shadow, because it's quite clear to me that whatever they do in the future with the spec, it will always be compared to Legion and Surrender to Madness. And nothing since S2M was gutted can compare to Shadow when it got S2M rolling. Probably the only spec that would make your adrenaline rise that high. Most fun in PvE I've ever had.

[@drakedbz]

Waiting for all the people that put a point into the emotion talent, then macro their shadowfiend with /y EMOTIONAL DAMAGE

[@xXJellimanXx]

Max, could you do a new video where you guys workshop a new design for shadow? #1 Issue impacting playability of the spec: Shadow AoE just cannot be allowed to go live in alpha / ship in Dragonflight in current state. #2 Is not offering anything above what a healing priests bring to raid that trumps Barrier or Symbol of Hope. As far as the tree itself, obviously the top of the tree is over weighted as well (15 points!) in addition to two whole useless utility wings on the tree (dispersion, VE, Hallucinations, etc) being abilities both core to shadow's current kit yet having no business being in a dps tree. Could it be possible to cut up the tree on stream and sew a new one together?

[@michaliskz8319]

Just change Twins so that instead of PIng your self when you PI another player you get another PI spell that you can only give to others. That way you won't have to hold cds to lign up with others.

[@dustinfidalgo915]

What if PI just gave a debuff similar to Bloodlust to the person who just received it (Excluding the priest if casted on themselves). It would make thinks more interesting giving other players a chance to get the buff.

[@acid7662]

Would be good if they swapped shadowfiend and pi in the talent, make pi only castable on self and leave it out for healing roles or just make it another healing CD

[@PendlayRoe]

I can't wait to inspect every dps in Mythic+ to see if they picked Interrupt/CC xD

[@bratwurst7308]

been doing this with warriors for 4 years now :D stormbolt kekw.

[@saraw5271]

PI concept: its a self buff that builds power when used and give you a second buff you can give out. This way the priest can use it on self when best for themself and the better they are at using it then more powerful it is when given away.

[@teddyfields2754]

What about a 1 min PI at like 15% haste or something?

[@Damocles450]

10% would be better. Otherwise a 15% haste buff on a 1min CD would be giving you more haste on average than the current PI. (assuming it was casted on cooldown)

[@PearseNation]

I kinda think PI should become another form of lust. Makes it global and gives m+ players more group flexibility

[@Hunzyplus]

Prayer of mending jumps should apply atonement for disc. Otherwise its a borderline useless button

[@Damocles450]

Give it the same reduced atonement duration as PW: radiance.

[@eliotness107]

You could have invited a PvP player also in this discussion to have all angles of end-game play

[@100kPineapple]

i like how DK has all their defensives/CC/heals on the left class tree. and Priest has it all on the right. Take out the Mind games column and sprinkle in the CC. Def feels like we have so many CC options to over compensate for the lack of AOE damage. PI should change from 25% down to 10%, and it can give 2% to all party members. so its less OP and less friendlies begging for it for logs. Maybe take all the CC out of the spec tree, put it into the class tree as competition against the PI line. 22 points in the last line is absurd. I feel like there is 2 types of shadow priests....The dot weavers, you want to keep dots up on as many targets as possible and fill with only mindflay. Then the voidform-ers, who want voidform to do peak damage and extend it as long as possible. and the class is currently failing to fill both desires.

[@Lachithor]

I want Mind Spike back, please (I had so much fun in Panda playing RBG with my Mastery Mind Spike spec) and giving shadow a caster spec where you perhaps change how some other spells work (maybe mind spike consumes VT and then gives a 5 sec VE effect or SW: Pain increased Spike damage for 10 sec or something like that) Blizzard gave us propper talent trees back, please do something crazy fun with them, or why even give them back?

[@Stopskii3]

I'm a shadowpriest that looks forward to burst healing :,(

[@nathanpayson9859]

If PI is such a big issue just give preist a different form of utility like a 10% haste buff to all people within 15 feet for 10 seconds, like a mini-lust.

[@aMereObservationwithVibe]

Yeah I really enjoyed this. I would’ve loved to seen a pvp priest involved in this as well. A 3s priest and a rbg priest. Like Cdew & Falsegodx for example. Subbed thanks!

[@jourfriend]

What is even the Problem with PI? it embraces the rotatin of priest to check for casted CD´s of your mates and PI them, without PI Priest would missing a very fun minigame!

[@brotholomew13]

I think PI needs to go just because of the balancing problem it creates. My raid has like 4 warlocks and 1 priest, should the 3 who aren't getting PI really get nerfed because of damage they can't do anyway?

[@ReatuKrentor]

If PI was something like "25% of all damage or healing dealt by the target is duplicated as holy(or radiant)damage or healing" would make it possible to attribute it to the priest while functionally remaining close to how it works now.

[@Hoiver1]

Not really. Having a 25% haste buff on specs like Demonology and Fire mage makes them play quite different and has very good scaling on some specs. Also 25% haste != 25% damage, but i get your point for sure.

[@poorwowgameplay]

It would need to be far more than 25%. Although that’s the interesting thing about PI. Depending on the class, spec and where they are with their CDs it can be absolutely enormous. Truthfully it is good gameplay that’s very strongly choice driven. It’s only been super painful for shadow since it’s not that fun giving such a powerful CD to another class. For holy and disc though it’s either scripted out by the raid leader or a personal choice.

[@glenndoiron9317]

I have to disagree with the dps meters being the only problem with PI. Not only are you buffing someone else's meters, you're debuffing your own. The fact is, Blizzard balances priest spells around your entire toolkit. This means, as a healer, you are forfeiting ... say 5ish percent of your healing throughput, something that a healer of any other class will never be required to do.