Tanks Are Getting Griefed in WoW Timewalking Dungeons

[@Zantetsudex]

DPS: Treats tanks like shit. Also DPS: "Where are the tanks?? These queues are taking too long!"

[@Mythansar]

This is more about this problem rather than tanks having a problem. In fact, I'm literally having a blast with this xpac!

[@Zantetsudex]

@@Mythansar Precisely. In spite of the treatment commonly described here tanks do have all of the leverage. They don't like the attitude from pissy dps players? Easily find another group while letting them wallow in the queue.

[@alpha-0874]

Speaking as someone who has leveled 5 characters to 80 in the past couple weeks entirely on timewalking dungeons. I can confidently say that most runs are fine, but once in a while you'll get a player that just doesn't mesh with the pace that the tank is setting. Or a tank that doesn't quite know what they're doing and is either pulling well beyond their means, rushing ahead of the group (DH), ect. I don't think anything really needs to change that's specific to Timewalking. The game overall is just extremely antisocial.

[@covetousclub910]

I recently did a TW dungeon and the tank was new. You could tell because they were going slow and opening up the map a lot. A ret paladin kept pulling groups so that he could speed up the dungeon. He jumped down a ledge to pull the entire room with his bubble up. We got out of it fine, but I really wanted to tell him that if he wanted to make things faster, be the tank rather than over pulling. No one but him was rushing the tank. We were all being chill but some people just want to go fast even when they decide to not be the tank. Let the tanks play at their own pace, damnit.

[@spinach6802]

I'm a new player who loves to tank and if I know I'll get " lost" in a dungeon I'll just say it at the start and usually someone will ping for me after room clears. I'm glad there are more people willing to help newcomers feel comfortable :) it doesn't always need to be hard

[@FurretTails]

I really wish for TW they would give a toggle option or something for people who want to just rush through it or go at a slower pace for learning/casual. For the most part people are pretty good/kind but as a 'newer player' to wow i've come across seeing folks getting absolutely berated/kicked for being low level/low level gear/etc just because some folks wanna be try hards or just rush through a dungeon. Even leveling alts of the same class i main on; on i've people try to kick me with the reason: low level as what they put in for trying to kick it's so absurd.

[@scuttlebut]

Oh the irony. New tanks want to go slow to learn the class and role. Everyone else wants to go fast. Tank gets to m+, get the same abuse. They get called that they suck, but didn’t get a chance to learn. M0 isn’t really a good learning experience either because everything falls over too fast.

[@Max-9871]

its not like you control it in m+... just invite people with similar or worse score/gear that arent twinks and you get a cool chill run. if you invite 4 people with 620+ gear and 2000+ score for a +4 you can expect that they want to blast cause they are ridiculously overgeared

[@braer240]

I feel like time walking is to level. So be fast. Heroics is to learn. Mythic is to push.

[@Netherstrasz]

@@braer240Pretty close. Heroics are still there to rush and farm gear. Mythic 0 is intended to learn. There are still differences between Heroic and Mythic that can catch others off guard

[@notlikethis-zf7xm]

cant learn in TW either due to scaling, while getting my blood dk up to speed, i took 0 dmg lv10-70 while topping dps meter got 1shot 70-77 and bottom of the barrel dps. then took normal dmg with normal dps 77-80 aside from when i had extremely low lvl players in it. Same experience rn with my brew-monk attempt + my 633pala gets shredded too when i do tw with a friends alt they want to lvl while i do weekly

[@ShawnSetGO]

It's more forgiving, but definitely still somewhat negligible

[@jorgiotoldo8636]

to avoid this problem go to custom group finder then put 5 timewalking dg quest ,im new tank ,slow pace no rush . you'll find players who agree with it and usually you can keep the same group for the 5 dg. you can spam advertise for this group in main city channel to find more easily players. Blizzard should have created chill realms for players like me who hate to rush content.

[@VHBGaming]

I'd realm swap my entire roster if that became a thing

[@rowdyrager-9403]

I pug tank TW and Heroics so it's pretty basic. All I expect is people follow me. I have 2 accounts and over 30 characters go ahead and kick me. People aren't stopping me in anyway. And may get me as their tank again on my alts lol. If blizzard offered the same bonus XP in follower dungeons or made delves XP better hey I'd be there and you all can sit waiting for that perfect tank.

[@redbeardak]

As a healer main i am sick of the speed clearing bullshit mythic timing is so stupid in every other aspect of the game

[@panthrax555]

Speed clearing should be done with a group who agreed to do that, not in random LFG.

[@ryanjanson1202]

As a tank, I've had quite a few people try to pull before I do, and even pull more than I can handle. Very easy to convince others that the jerk pulling needs to get kicked.

[@sinz1875]

Let them pull when they die grab aggro and tell em gg's.

[@ryanjanson1202]

@@sinz1875 Yeah I've done that a few times as they ran ahead to pull more 👍 Funny every time.

[@blackestmamba]

I think it's because timewalking is a limited time event, same way as we used to have "push weeks", altoholics have "level weeks". And so once timewalking is out its a race against time to level as fast as possible, and the more you level, the less enjoyable it becomes and the more of a chore it turns into, and anyone that is "slowing them down" is an obstacle.

[@johnalvar6566]

I hope they totally remove the ping thing, it is always annoying when some random mongoloid ping you to do this or that, i am the tank i go w/e i want and you follow me, dont like it then you should start tanking.

[@yetisensei]

Ima prot warriors and I stop giving a damn to people tell me how to go fast. I do my best to be unkillable with a lot of absorption time.

[@TakaChan569]

I mean that hunter has a point, people who play wow have the "everything needs to be done in a hurry" kind of mentality. Anything that's not 100% efficient makes some lose their damn minds, heck it's not just wow feels like all mmo's or heck just multiplayer games in general has this issue.

[@ShawnSetGO]

Patience isn't exactly a feature commonly used, true lol

[@jethrodark2372]

The WoW playerbase has been extremely toxic for a long time. People like to believe that removing the timer from M+ will solve toxicity in M+(it won't). WoW toxicity is and has allways stemmed from zero accountability. From Vanilla to Wrath you had servers and everyone knew everyone. It was like a small town that played video games together. So if anyone started ninja looting or grieving they were ostracized. But when they made everything cross realm, nobody knew anyone anymore. There was no community punishment's, and Blizz put no real punishments in for being a toxic player. That lead to the evergrowing toxicity in WoW.

[@isiseungella4688]

Player since vanilla and I agree. It was always toxic but once the realm accountability was taken out, the scale went ballistic. As players became less guild orientated and guilds less invested in maintaining guild activities and rules, the game became a solo venture with occasional grouping. Guilds now expect players to be equipped and know raids or mythics before they join vs we took a player under our wing to teach him everything from gold farming to mechanics. It's not just Blizzard, it's the community.

[@powerplay074]

Theres no toxicity s1 havent experienced it myself havin 2x ksh this season. Maybe if your boosted and join runs absolutely clueless.

[@ShawnSetGO]

I think this is what happens when you just give something to players like speedy leveling without implementing anything else

[@RoseOfSharyn18]

As someone that has been trying to level up using timewalking with a warrior and a druid. Last few times i have tried I just get bitched at constantly because I want the badges and so I am getting all the bosses and just people wanting to get the last boss asap. Annoying and I haven't really played since.

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

My fav thing is when DPS puts "Pings" as to where to go, and tries to get me to hurry. I've had many dps go off on their own like I'm supposed to follow them. They get themselves killed after pulling, then they have the audcaity to say "tank? why are you not helping?" As me, and the entire group are sonehwere else. i say "Why are you not following the tank?" They'll be like "Ccause this is faster, this is the right way" I then say "You don't follow the tank, and die, that's completely on you. I'm the tank, you follow me, I don't follow you"

[@brelshar4968]

Tanks no longer have the "main character" privilage. You are replaceable.

[@benjaminlear1619]

​@@brelshar4968 Counter culture in WoW is interesting. All of you are replaceable. All of you. DPS are easier to replace than Tank. It's not Main Character nonsense you spew. It's just facts. Difference is, people used to not dispute facts with feelings and opinions. 😂

[@VHBGaming]

This happens WAY to often

[@VHBGaming]

​@@brelshar4968lol not at all. I'll sit in the corner and watch the group wipe 😂

[@sinnis4993]

@@VHBGaming lets not pretend that timewalkings need a tank, okay?

[@kamikosoulight3125]

I wanted to learn to tank, as blood dk, I went on timewalking dungeon because that was the only option with the extra reward of a guaranteed armor piece. I got all the dps that pull in my stead because i'm "too slow" and realized that everyone just go for the last boss if he's out in the open. Because they do not want to clear out the same dungeon for the 523th time, and there is "Time" In 'timewalk dungeon', they do a Timespeedrun dungeon. And I still suck at tank. I noticed through leveling Alts That you absolutely love being a low level Healer and dps, because the scaling is off you do a lot more that what you're supposed to do, but tank does not bask in the same glow.

[@notlikethis-zf7xm]

just do solo delves to learn tanking tbh at like 560 youre able to solo t8s when you do propper def usage etc

[@mintx1720]

The problem with tanks in timewalking is actually scaling. A lot of friction has to do with a few brackets where tanks feel weak. For example in lv 73 tanks feel pretty strong but in lv 74 you are very squishy unless you are around ilvl 500. Also if you don't have fully upgraded heirlooms you can fall off and need gear replacement from the AH.

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

Yeah brew master up till like 70-73 I could full heal with a vivify instant. 74? heals literally, literally like 6% health lol. It was tough.

[@benjaminlear1619]

Huh. Interesting 🤔. Actually makes me want to relevel a Tank just to see how it affects me personally.

[@benjaminlear1619]

​@LibertarianGalt Congratulations. That doesn't affect me personally though. 😂

[@benjaminlear1619]

​@LibertarianGalt Easy stuff. Easy, so easy I can do it while asleep.

[@Valkaneer]

That's weird, because when I was doing healing it was the tanks that caused me the most problems, they want to pull the whole freaking instance and think I can keep them alive.

[@benjaminlear1619]

You do understand that is because of the griefing on the Tanks yeah?? Makes them want to pull faster. Or makes them quit. Eventually, they just quit anyways, but yeah.

[@deseanroot75]

Because if the tank dosent pull fast they will get flamed or a dps will just pull instead. Take 2 seconds to think about why tanks have to pull fast.

[@assaqwwq]

​@@benjaminlear1619you do realize that a DPS can roll a tank spec for leveling without understanding what a tank is. I've seen plenty of tanks that I'm sure only tank to get to max lvl.

[@benjaminlear1619]

​@@assaqwwq I don't understand how this response actually has anything to do with my comment. What I said is true.

[@geekmp3]

Is it possible dps view it as a meme at this point? Was the hunter just trolling? Problems really started when dungeons became Diablo: pull big and cleave down. CC is gone. Interrupts are M+ only.

[@ShawnSetGO]

I think that's a fair possibility

[@Netherstrasz]

It's very true-tanks are mistreated in TW and you can never please everyone. I commend the DK for trying out tanking, but TW is the worst place to learn how to tank or just start it in general. It involves some of the worst tanking habits: going too fast and ignoring mechanics. And when you actually go to do something like mythic plus it'll be a reality check and a sobering experience, followed by toxic comments from DPS and/or healers. I firmly believe the best way to learn any role or any activity is to progress through difficulties and master them before going to the next level. To get used to the increasing challenge better prepares you for what's to come. It's something that's been missing for quite a while, especially in mythic plus. I once had a tank in a Dawnbreaker 6 who was 626, heroic raid geared. Admitted he never even done this on M0. It was a disaster because he didn't take the time to learn anything. Not really a bad tank thing, simply a bad player thing.

[@ShawnSetGO]

Yeah, definitely best to start at the bottom for these things and overcome the challenges. A lot of people like to skip this, but that's a different discussion for sure

[@Omnavor]

When time walking was a limited thing, the majority of people doing it still wanted speed but only for 5 for the quest completion. Now people are running the same few dungeons 10s of times each. All they care about is fast but won't queue as a tank or healer to support that. Then they take their frustrations out on those of us who do.

[@panthrax555]

The true issue is people. People with differing goals who have no patience or empathy. Attacking healers, calling them the problem really doesn't help anyone.

[@drthompson65]

As a tank if you aren’t pulling like a mad man, and know the perfect routes people give you a hard time.

[@Zxorcon]

part of the issue with time walking is Twinks.. There is no lvl 80 tank that can go more than ~2/3 the speed of a 11 twink.,. they can kill the entire instance pulling everything faster than a mythic raid geared tank can kill just the bosses

[@kcato8459]

Stopped tanking Timewalking dungeons on both of my druid tanks (Ivl 80 & 75) because you can't seem to please everyone, even got vote kick on my LvL 80 for going too slow. So can't be assed with the toxicity any more.

[@AgentFranks16]

People run into the twink lvl 10 fury warrior who runs the whole way and clears it out for you. And think every tank should be able to do the same.

[@voidflux]

Some of what you mentioned is more just leveling dungeon problems, time-walking with an alt levels you fast (think i was getting 3-4 levels per run). from leveling a few alts via time-walking, for me it was how bad some classes felt starting out. you rush through to 70 so the class starts to feel "ok" then rush to 80 to start your loot progression. there is also odd scaling where you might have a healer nuking whole rooms , so it just becomes a running simulator for others. Tempo of TW/Leveling also has a lot to do with the mind set the game doesn't really start till your max level. faster we go, faster i get to the real game. so zerg the TW/Leveling Dungeons and we can get to the real game. bad logic but have seen it to many times.

[@braer240]

As a tank. I kind of agree with healers have it easy. I’ve gotten so frustrated with healers. Sometimes you get a good healer and the key goes good. Next run you are like what in the world is happening, everyone is dying. Which as a blood dk tank, you survive, but if the boss is too high of hp…. You might as well just die and try again. Got so fed up with it I just rolled a disc priest. I’ve never healed. Never played priest. Figured let’s try it, see if I can have a little better control with how keys go

[@D2Mephisto]

the players take their cues for how to treat tanks from blizzard blizz nerfs tanks and makes them suffer? players take their cue from that and also treat tanks like crap they need to BUFF tanks. period.

[@DoublebrutalCS2]

OK to fill you in, until this patch 11.0.7... you could run some old gear with sockets on max level characters, and be scaled down to timewalking, and be around 4-10 times the power of the average end game geared player. I was tanking timewalking as havoc demon hunter with ilvl 150 ish bis timewalk gear, and same with my 80 prot warrior. This patch switched the scaling to chromie time, similar to MoP Remix. If you played mop remix u may remember level 20s carrying dungeons/raids.... well thats where we are now. My old twink sets on my level 80s are dead and buried. Years of cool items R.I.P. Now a level 11, setup in < 24 hours /played, can have 20 sockets or so and is literally 50 to 100 times the power of the average end game geared player. Blizzard quickly hotfixed enemy health in timewalking +66% this patch in response... which once again makes it MORE required to have a level 11 twink to complete the dungeon in 1 to 3 minutes, instead of 10-30 minutes. This is partly to blame for the "hurry up" "pull faster" no doubt... as when you are leveling a character (boring, mindless) the speed of having a twink is incredible. I use my 3 twinks to just farm timewalking badges so i can full clear future timewalk vendors. I am back up to 30k badges on my 13 blood DK twink already.

[@zangetsuzabimaru]

Honestly I like the follower dungeons and wish they would extend that to high tier dungeons. Make story-mode raids also cuz I'm thoroughly enjoying just playing alone at this point. The only wall I've hit is Zek'vir's Lair. I can't get him past 11% solo on my fury warrior. I do great then after while it's like the damn cocoons get more and more health and can't get them down in time then get stunned 1 time and dead

[@brianl.876]

Did you really just make a whole video talking about things you've never done? I'd like to you explore the issue before making a video about it. That would be great.

[@ShawnSetGO]

Why be so bent out of shape about it though?

[@DrFrankenschtein]

@@ShawnSetGOThey’re not bent out of shape. They’re criticizing your numbnuts “umm I guess, I guess” speculation-filled video. Great idea for a video by the way - hey gang! Let’s all gather ‘round while I read Reddit posts and speculate about an experience I know nothing about! Lmfao

[@chrisbarnes367]

@@ShawnSetGO Is it really being bent out of shape by asking a question? Or are you talking about the people asking you to go faster in dungeons? If people want others to conform to your playstyle.... queue with your guild. Never ever EVER expect people in a PUG/LFG queue to just do what ever you want to do.

[@chrisbarnes367]

Inb4 some one says, "but that goes both ways" No Shit.

[@VHBGaming]

​@@chrisbarnes367bum rushing a regular as dungeon simply because you jldont enjoy and and just to xp farm is a ridiculous thing to try and force onto a group of random ppl. Ppl with that mindset will be what kill the game. It's SUPPOSED to be fun

[@VHBGaming]

I took a decade long gap from warcraft and this was first thinf i notcied when i came back and started tanking. So many dps running ahead trying to pull the entire dungeon. It got to the point i started sitting down and waiting for wipes. Makes tanking in randoms damn near not worth the effort. Rather heal anyways 🤷‍♂️

[@LuckyFoxes789]

I told one dps this is my high gear you don't wanna see my next one. I slowed down so much 1 pack at a time.

[@staryoshi]

Tank gameplay in combat is my favorite thing to do in wow. Tank gameplay in terms of the extra responsibility of being the group's quarterback is not. The tank has to do too much pathing and guiding and management.

[@dracoknight9066]

I levelled 7 chars to 80 during anniversary event, most as heals or tanks. It's not players, it's the super wonky 69-75 bracket scaling. You have over 200 ilvl gap between 69 and 71 alone. With how high xp percompletion is, people cannot upgrade their gearfast enough. This results in extremely slowdungeons, because either tank has1/30th of hp heshould have, and they haveto go super slow and struggle with aggro,or healer doing 5% heals on tankwith their big cds and 0.5% with spammable heals. People come from previous 68 levels expecting dungeons to be a breeze as before and get bitchslapped bythe difficulty spike. The actual optimal TW leveling path is to hit 69, the do dragonflight wqs for gear before queueing up again. And if you think gearing a healer is easy you're wrong. They are the most substat dependent class. You can have 615 healers pulling lv 72 hps if they don't have gear properly matched to statweights. And you're competing with everyone for trinkets since for some reason healing trinkets are more garbage than dps ones.

[@DoublebrutalCS2]

The only real fix for the whole timewalking situation is for blizzard to fix scaling for the whole game. If you have tried leveling 1-80 anytime since BFA you have probably felt the "I am getting weaker as I level up" - mobs take longer to die, your secondary stat % go down every level you gain... Chromie time scaling has the intent of letting low and high level players play together in grouped instance content, but with extremely flawed scaling formulas resulting in this backwards upside down group experience of being carried by a level 11 fury warrior running at 191% speed. I personally would barely play timewalking if I couldn't make some kind of strong twink to make it fast... it's not supposed to be slow grindy sweaty content it's just old dungeons. Yet last night leveling my warrior in timewalking all the way to 80 was horrible. Some dungeons took up to 30 minutes, and even had 3 wipes on a final boss in one of them. Meanwhile on my twink dk for example I can pull Postmaster Malowne, Hearthsinger Forresten and The Unforgiven on top of each other and kill all 3 at the same time alone while the group is fighting the rats in the cage trap lol.

[@steampunkpixie2643]

I main a level 80 healer but my a;us are mostly D.P.S. Something I have found is a good tank will get you threw a timewalking dungeon especially if the healer is good. I have had a few where the tank pulled to much or ran past too many aggressive nobs and we wiped.

[@keats27]

I havent had too many problems as a TW tank even at low levels because I ACTUALLY TANK, even if it's tryhard.

[@voodoo1069]

I just spend all night min - maxing a level 11 twink fury warrior it is a ton of fun to carry and god mod timewalking for randoms. Reminds me of TBC and wrath days when I'd do the same thing with my bis raid characters. They take like 2-3 mins to clear solo as everyone else tries to keep up with my 50% movement speed. I'm pretty sure this is why some people have some fucked up expectations of how fast these things should be.

[@brelshar4968]

Wow! You're the main character!

[@shiftey8]

The true issue is dpsers have it took easy. As a healer main with tank alt (which I had to stop playing because of the amount of abuse I got) and dps alt, let me tell you, we need a system to introduce dps down mechanics. If a dpser takes avoidable damage, they get a damage reduction debuff, every time they take damage it stacks and has like I don't know 30-60 seconds cooldown. Therefore if you as a dpser do not focus on mechanics and doing things right and put undue pressure on your tank and healer for being a terrible team player, you also get shit dps and your meter will suffer. Cause we know dpsers only care about meters. More dps more better, more speed, more dps, more better mentality. Healer and tank roles are exceedingly difficult compared to what dpsers have to do in dungeons, it's too easy for them, they got no skin in the game.

[@ShawnSetGO]

Stand in the fire, dps higher mentality basically lol

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

Blizzard needs to stop making dungeons mini raids. Make it only have one path, mobs cleared 100% of what's there. NO extra packs you can skip or pick up. Solves two big issues instantly !:not knowing where to go 2:Pathing/tactics. Ion is just not good I think. I think he's an incredibly stubburn man, and his team is too. He is obssessed with one shots, and complication that no one is asking for.

[@Caligulove]

Before watching the video, I must say: I don't think I have quite enough self-hatred to ever tank for the WoW playerbase again. Tanking in FFXIV and ESO do plenty scratch my tank itch, and the playerbase is far more pleasant to do that for.

[@spinach6802]

in LFR you can be the dumbest healer on the planet but still get rewarded as there is 14 other healers there who can pull through, same as Dps. but if you're an inexperienced tank who doesn't do the raid correctly, everyone will know it and you WILL be flamed for it and kicked if it causes a wipe. tanks got it hard

[@shaunybonny688]

Didn’t say anything in this video.

[@ShawnSetGO]

Man and I thought I was speaking

[@gordonvincent29]

Tank delve guide? For all 40 of em?

[@xaulted1]

It won't be long, all tanks and healers will be AI followers and players will have no one to scream at.

[@infernomaster2702]

I NEVER group with people to do delves, makes it take way to longer, where u can solo it in less than 5 minutes

[@spricko28]

Depends on class.. shammy for example have harder times than DK or rogue

[@edin1912]

@@spricko28 bro anyone who needs help in a delve should stay in normal dungeons. literally a +8 was a 10 minute run even back at 610 item level.

[@brelshar4968]

I have never grouped once for a Delve 🤣

[@spricko28]

​@@edin1912 I didn't say it's impossible I said it's harder to do on some classes.. and yes I play all classes to compare

[@kurtisschnepp8605]

I'M A TANK AND I DO WELL IN MY DEL

[@MikeyJ28]

The only tanks queuing for TW dungeons are level 11 warriors lets be honest lol

[@YusufKhan-dh5yq]

Look people wanting to rush through content is fine by me if anything it gives me a little challenge but the one thing I hate is dps (hunters) without misdirect or someone who just unloads all there cooldowns on pull and dies and just says tank ?

[@vaylox09]

It's all blizzards fault they buffed health in TW because people were breezing through the anniversary dungeons. They nerfed the tw system to no longer scale. Tw has no point tbh the gear isn't good it's just for leveling.

[@danthewatcher9681]

Not my xp in TW, and if I get a to xic dps I just invite them to lrave and find a group to their liking 😂

[@LordsMobile080]

I heal TW for fun and trade leather gear with everyone who wants it to gear them up 😂, hunters are the worst pulling crap all the time making it hell to heal sometimes

[@pop2561]

bet these people are lvling bot accounts hunters that wanna lvl fast seems sus when its already fast and a easy fix would be make trash mobs give 50% xp then you're gonna wanna finish all trash and dungeon for exp and gear bonus.

[@mistakai4226]

Meanwhile over in classic hardcore I'm happily following my tank as she pulls 1 mob at a time in an hour long ago run. Retail is cooked.

[@apointtomake1517]

Timewalking was a speed fest before Delves were a thing. Stop trying to make any comparisons. And if a tank said they were going fast, but were being told they were going slow, they were going slow. I have to tell tanks on a semi-regular basis the you need to pull packs not 2-3 mobs at a time because you waste everyone cooldowns.

[@highbred]

Tank dictates pace. You're not wrong about cooldown pacing for sure, but if the tank isn't comfortable doing that yet, either slow down with him or grab a shield yourself.