Tapestry board game review - A civilisation building board game by the designer of Scythe

How many Dicebreaker video producers does it take to review a board game?
Apparently 3 in this video as Alex, Wheels AND Johnny all give their two cents on the latest Stonemaier creation.
Get Tapestry here (UK) - www.amazon.co....
and here (US) - www.amazon.com...
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"Mountain Emperor" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons...

[@mynar_lenahan]

I really like the different structure of this review and the different bits of information each perspective gives in the review. I hope it wasn't too difficult to put together, because I'd like to see more like it.

[@mandoschMUh]

That. Please?

[@laterkater4213]

Me: Dropping off to sleep as Wheels discusses the intricacies of scoring. Johnny: HELLO! Me: 😳

[@brocksisson7128]

Not too crazy about the game, very crazy about this new review format.

[@ragingrhino101]

This sounds like a game I would love to play, if someone else bought it

[@whyyouhere4039]

Lol

[@little-earth-star6]

Me: Tapestry sounds like a really nice game. . . but where are the caveats? (Wheels comes on screen) Me: Ah, there they are.

[@alexixeno4223]

i quite like the format you guys did for this review, creative and funny transition between the hosts and a range of views in one video giving it a more fair and honest review. so... I'll wait till they put out a discount version that uses paper disks instead of the plastic before I think of picking this up. because yeah I'm frugal... I'm cheap enough that hearing that a large amount of the price comes from next to useless models is a turn off. now I would like to play the game but... Price matters a lot.

[@CWRoach]

love this new review format...i hope it stays... not only do we get a solid perception of what each individual truly thinks of the game...but also the next person coming in to tell the last to get lost was hilarious :D

[@wackamack9829]

Ah! A wild grumpy Wheels appears! ^^ I've got to say, I really like this three-way review format. I think I'll give this a miss. I enjoy Scythe immensely but this doesn't really excite me, especially not with that price tag

[@carolinelabbott2451]

This reminds me of Civilization, but as a board game rather than a computer game.

[@pikabuki]

It doesn't feel like it, however, because the theme never shines through the resource management.

[@godribbon]

There is actually a Civilization board game, although I'm not sure how good it is as I've never played

[@carolinelabbott2451]

@@godribbon 😲 I did not know that.

[@poshboy4749]

@@carolinelabbott2451 Two.

[@AnubisEchelon]

i love the style of this video, with the 3 different views, hopefully will see more in the future

[@shizuyori6173]

Cool video, good looking game, i want that t-shirt!

[@danielhooper152]

I definitely fall into Wheel's house on this one. Between the price point, the seeming imbalance of some of the tapestries, and the generally, "Meh" look of the components and game play, I think I'm gonna give this one a hard pass. I do love this review style though; wouldn't mind seeing more reviews like it.

[@Timberella3003]

Maybe give it a soft pass, instead? Don't buy it, but play someone else's copy if it's offered? Agreed on the review format!

[@davidpercik3956]

This was a very good way of reviewing a game when the team has differing views. Thank you for the thoughtful approach. It does seem to have become rather easy to spend a large amount of money on games, and it's good of you to include cost and assess value for money.

[@theodorepinnock1517]

"Invent time travel." You know. As you do.

[@Naeddyr]

I've played it once, as a Futurist playing against the owner (and veteran player) and another player who would probably play TTA every time they got the chance, and I think I'll keep my completely unfair winning streak going by not playing a second time. It was... fine.

[@MoriMemento117]

It certainly does appear the very definition of fine. Sad about the price point. Fine can go a long ways if it's affordable.

[@bobwhite3291]

I liked the fact that Wheels and then Johnny take over the game review.

[@shinjial]

I've watched a lot of reviews of this game prior to my brother acquiring it. Most of the arguements on it are in the neighborhood of this video. After having played it, I have some points that I agree with, and others I don't. My biggest gripe with it is how the theme conects (or rather doesn't conect) to the game mechanisms. The tapestry cards and the technologies are dealt randomly, which means the progression of any given civ is bonkers. You might have reached the point of space travel, and still you're developing glasses, or type writers. Or you can go from the age of fire straight to capitalism, and back to something centuries prior to it, and still the game is progressing. This could be easily have been fixed by just having separate tiers for each tapestry/inventions decks (1st era, 2nd era, 3rd era). This way the progression could make much more sense thematicaly. Given how much was spent on this game, this seems like a very minor thing to consider and would make a gigantic difference, also helping fix imbalance issues in the game. I disagree with Wheels on the capital city role in the game. I've played it targeting the development of the capital as my core strategy and it was just as effective as my oponents strategy (he went for a explore/conquer strategy). So by the end our boards illustrated the different ways our civs developed: mine had gone the way of urban development, with my capital map packed almost to the limit, while his was lighter; on the other hand, he had covered far more ground in the central board, showing how much he had explored, as a pioneers or adventurers. I lost by only a 7 poing difference, which could have gone either way if some tapestry cards or techs had or hadn't shown up for us. Also, having huts next to science labs or whatever is a minor thing, really. Looking at most of the biggest capital cities in our world you can easily see how city centers, suburbs and marginalized, low income neighborhoods, are tied together, and overlap. Finally, I agree with Johnny that this is an euro game at its heart. And it's a very smooth one at that. Plays easy, it's fun and fast, not overstaying it's welcome. Looks good, the components look and feel nice, the overall production is up to par with what SM offers, which is part of their branding anyway. I haven't tried a SM game that I didn't like yet. But if the player wants a proper civ game, this ain't it, for sure.

[@jimhawkins7077]

3:45 Was getting worried about you getting a bit stiff on the presentation, until that came along, made me chuckle out loud :) Interested in that t-shirt you had on, being a Hawkins. :)

[@kaushtubhchauhan]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it the first individual review Alex did on the channel?? If is is true I can understand the little stiffness at the start

[@Stephen-Fox]

From the coverage of Tapestry I've seen, I'm generally somewhere between Johnny and Alex. Not had opportunity to play it myself, yet, however, but I've watched a lot of solo plays of it on various youtube channels, and while I know I'd enjoy the game, and perhaps more importantly my husband will enjoy the game... $100 is always a lot of money to spend on a game. Meanwhile, as for balance - The first balance patch was released earlier this month, and is available as a pdf online (mostly via adjustments to starting points and resources) .Because balance patches are now a thing in tabletop games, apparently (...But then, haven't they been for a while? Blood Bowl's "Living rulebook" and the like? MtG is another decent example - removing manaburn in iirc 2010, replacing interrupts and batches with a system that actually is comprehensible by human beings in 6e, and so forth)

[@MoriMemento117]

Love the style of the review! From going from least complicated/nuanced critique to most complicated really aids the viewer in following along (considering you guys had 3 fairly diverse and isolated viewpoints in the video). Also, love how Alex jumped right into reviewing the game. Many reviewers feel the need to go over the rules before reviewing, and while that's nice, it's also time consuming and completely unnecessary for Tapestry as I think I've heard the rules explanation about 40 billion times now. Besides, there's always Mr. Rodney at Watch It Played. ;)

[@rybec]

As someone who has done some game design, I can tell you that custom pieces are expensive. There is a reason that wooden meeples are a popular component, and that is because they are mass produced extremely cheaply (as are wood and plastic cubes). Custom buildings, even small ones, command a fairly high price, because even with high sales of your game, it almost certainly won't be enough to get the cost benefits of large scale mass production. Larger custom buildings will be many times more expensive than small ones, because there is more detail, and the size limits production options. Custom coloring on the pieces adds even more cost. I've not played Tapestry, and all I have seen of the contents is what was showed on this video, but based on what I saw, I would estimate that half of the price of the game is those custom game pieces. They might even represent well over half the price. I can honestly say, I have changed the design of games over things like this. $100 for a game like that is almost _absurdly_ high, especially when the majority of the cost is probably the custom game pieces. I agree that they look really cool, but ultimately they are an unnecessary cost. They are the kind of thing I might include in a deluxe version of a game, either as a higher tier Kickstarter reward or for a game that has already proven itself to be very successful with a much cheaper set of components. Wheels brings up a really good concern. In addition to actually designing games, I have also taught college Video Game Design, and the first half of my course has the students designing a tabletop game, to learn the general principles of game design. One of the fundamental principles of tabletop game design is limiting scope. In video games, having a bunch of side quests and mini-games can be really fun, but in a game where the players have to manage the mechanics themselves, instead of letting a computer do it, having a bunch of extra elements can be very problematic. Ultimately this sort of complexity depends on your target audience, but the way Wheel described the capital city mechanic sounds like a superfluous mini-game that has no business being in a tabletop game. More options for getting points is fine (as it can increase the number of viable strategies), but when it ends up being a distraction that consumes a lot of time without making the game more enjoyable, that's not good game design. Like I said though, I haven't played the game. I am basing this entirely on your reviews, so maybe there is something I don't know. Wheel is right on, however, when he says that I would expect those large buildings to provide their owners with unique advantages, and if they don't, I am quite definitely very disappointed, not just at the poor design, but also at the missed opportunity. Based on this review, I would say that the game would probably be much better without the capital city mechanic. Eliminating that mechanic would also eliminate the larger building game pieces, dramatically reducing the price. It would also eliminate at least some of the smaller buildings, further reducing the price tag. (Based on some parts of the video, I assume they are also used as markers for technologies gained, which means some would still be required. Though if this is the case, those clear plastic cubes Pandemic uses might be a good, much cheaper replacement.) In short, it sounds to me like the game could have been made with _better_ design _and_ costing half the price, merely by eliminating a single, low value mini-game element. Like I said before though, I have not played the game. This is based entirely on what I learned about it from this review. There may be elements of the features I have discussed that I am not aware of, which would change my opinion if I was aware of them. I would also like to point out: If the target audience enjoys excessively complex games with not quite meaningless mini-games on the side, then this design is perfect for the target audience. If it was intended for a more general tabletop audience though, or even if it was intended for players who enjoy rich games with high but _meaningful_ complexity, it sounds like it missed the mark.

[@robjones8567]

Great review format.

[@Danny_DaKid]

I really liked this review format, keep up the good work! You guy should do best IP board games, like war of the ring, rebellion, etc. It’s easy to get suckered in a bad board game just because it’s your favorite IP.

[@shawnheatherly]

The video on Scythe was my introduction to the game and sold me on wanting it. Tapestry here... I feel like I'm with Johnny. It sounds like a good time, but that price is a steep hill to climb.

[@marekhaase]

I applaud the review format including different points of view for the game. I am slightly biased as I have risked the pre-order but I do not regret it, the game is cool and I like it as I like Scythe and this means I like it more the more I play it :) This game, in my opinion, does what players usually do to their own copies of games from get go. It has all the nice addons that are not necessary for the core game but make the experience so much more pleasant. I have spent a lot of money getting silly little accessories for my games because I like nice things, it makes me happy. In this case it was taken out of players hands though and this might be a con for some not wanting to spend so much money on the game. On the other hand, I know that I would, probably, spend more buying the extra pieces than difference in price would be. The steep price point though. When you compare the price of the game to an evening out... a meal for two with a drink is more than a half of the cost of this box. I bet the game can provide more than two evening of the entertainment and the production value is definitely there.

[@MoriMemento117]

I used to be a Stonemaier skeptic... then I learned to be less of a contrarian dillweed and have since massively enjoyed the design behind Viticulture, Scythe, Wingspan, and Euphoria. Not all equally, mind you, but certainly at least 3 of those are top notch designed games (and one or two are frankly top 25 games of all time caliber). Aaaand then Tapestry arrived. Wheels nailed it on the head with the city boards. I'm not a big fan of games with polyomino minigames attached to them (that seem to be taking over the games industry right now)... but if I were... wouldn't I just get Patchwork, Barenpark, or A Feast for Odin where the polyominoes are cardborad, diverse, plentiful, and tied to the core game play? If Tapestry were the price of Viticulture (and I really don't see why it can't be, Viticulture is *GORGEOUS*) I'd have bought it in a heartbeat. But as it is I can't see myself putting 110 CAD down for what amounts to a simple Eurogame.

[@llamabing5215]

Love the format, game seems expensive at half the price, and the seemingly superlative buildings are a bit wasteful

[@johnleach8553]

It sounds like the type of game I’d like. I loved Catalan and even wrote a set of rules to combine all four versions we have. Price point for one game is pretty steep but considering what goes into game creation and production probably fair just a little off putting for me. Would definitely need to plan before buying. Love the 3 reviewer format great video ,!

[@brianschoner3350]

I pre-ordered Tapestry as a big fan of Stonemaier Games, but I'm afraid I'm on Team Wheels for this one. The main problem I have is the incredibly random and swingy nature of the Tapestry cards...getting the right one at the right time can be a MONSTROUS advantage, and others may be more or less useless. Add to that the imbalance between civilizations (which there are already official fixes for) and the big expensive useless landmarks, and it just seems like it could have used another year in development.

[@MoriMemento117]

Agreed! I wonder if the success of Wingspan got to their heads on this one. It struck me as odd that in Jamey's Tapestry announcement video he said they had already finished testing it at that time and had no plans for external testing. For a civilization game (of which there are not that many good ones) that was a brave move.

[@Brian0033]

Tapestry is an overpriced collection of Happy Meal toys attached to a middle of the road Euro game with large balance and luck issues. A recent errata balanced the factions by, for example, giving one half the starting resources of the others and giving another up to 60 extra starting points depending on player count. Thats about what you need to know for balance.

[@zendalexander]

Sounds like civilization in a box

[@richardscales9560]

it's recognised that it is unbalanced. Stegmaier Games have posted some adjustments on the website and are monitoring recorded games results to see if further are needed. this really is something that should have been picked up in play testing though. . For me the game itself is fine if rather overproduced and i'm not keen on the sculpts of the buildings. I'd rather have less whiz factor and it priced around 50- 52 quid. I have similar thoughts on the Wingspan Expansion, game content is fine but uneeded extras just push the price up. Still , its good business if you can get away with it.

[@craigmartin8230]

Great fair review. We really enjoy the game, yes not civ game and more euro. First couple of plays we were a bit concerned we may not like it but after 30+ plays we still enjoy each play. Yes civs are unbalanced but new official tweaks has addressed some issues, and we just don't play futurists anymore. I think we have got our money's worth out of our game.

[@chadstilson8804]

Stonemaier Games recently produced a "Civilization Adjustments” printable PDF Based on the results of MANY MANY plays reported on BGG. It balances out the Civ Cards. You can download and print the document from his website: stonemaiergames.com/games/tapestry/

[@rmsgrey]

Maybe work a little on the dynamic balancing of the next video - I had to turn my volume up significantly for Wheels' section, then drop it again for Johnny...

[@kirstybookwyrm]

I agree with Wheels, tapestry really did not click with me and at $100 it s way overpriced

[@jayraysai]

More video like this

[@citriccomics]

I'm with Wheels, the game seems like a mess thematically in spite of the great art by Andrew Bosley, and the buildings don't really do anything for me either, although the original clay buildings that they were inspired by are charming, you can see Rom Brown's originals here cultofgame.blogspot.com/ but something is lost in the conversion to pre-painted plastic and it doesn't help that they feel completely at odds with the rest of the art.

[@Groegselmaschupp]

Big Box, big price tag, big hype..... That's it. No, thank you.

[@princesszelda1997]

is this game sort of trying to imitate a computer strategy game?

[@lightwire123]

i saw this game new for $40 online xD

[@AD_Gray]

The price is really prohibitive :/

[@tahsinshamma2369]

I like the review, but the set really needs some dynamism. Just people sitting in a white studio is just bland. You don't have to have to the typical board game wall, but something to give the visuals some life.

[@derkneier4058]

Can someone please explain the difference between an eurogamer and ameritrash? I heard it a few times now but i'm too lazy to look it up ^^

[@comanaut9566]

Der Kneier - Ameritrash: High theme, characters/heroes , factions , player to player conflict, lots of luck. Eurogame: indirect player interaction, abstracted theme, emphasis on individual development rather than conflict, usually considerable depth, less or no luck.

[@rmsgrey]

Ameritrash tends to have little fiddly rules that are there purely for theme; eurogames tend to skimp a bit on theme in order to have rock-solid mechanics.

[@jaednhowlar2359]

Total miss.