TATA Tiago EV Makes sense? | Problems with electric cars

[@subhobose0003]

Hello Mate, first of all I would like to appreciate you for making this video. There are a lot of points you made in the video that I don't agree with and some that I do agree with. But as you mentioned in your video, so would I like to mention, all of this is my personal opinion and what I believe. these are just counter points to the points you laid in your video. I suspect you do not own an EV, but I have no way of knowing that for sure. For myself, I do own a Nexon EV (Prime) which I got in July of 2021. So far I have clocked some 32K Kms on the car and so I can talk about some of the finer details of the vehicle and EVs in general. I am no way an expert and there are a lot more people far more educated than me in the topic. Coming to the point now: 1. People in India do not usually care about EVs impact on the environment and tend to care more about the economics - absolutely true in my case. So not argument here. 2. Battery replacement cost of EVs is huge - absolutely true. They constitute of about 40% of the total cost of the car (today). I don't see it coming down by a lot either, not because the cost are not going down, but because people are demanding bigger batteries. 3. While reselling, if the battery health is at 50% of its original capacity, this would depreciate the resale value - Absolutely true. But herein lies the problem. Nexon's battery is rated for 3000 recharge cycles. I get a range of about 230kms per 100% battery recharge. That means if we consider no degradation of battery, it would come to a total of 690000kms on the odo. But this is unrealistic. Let us factor in degradation as well. A Lithium polymer battery, which is the type of battery used in Nexon EV, and with active cooling does not loose 10% to 15% battery capacity in a year (saw a comment pinned by you under your video calming this). In the extreme case it loses about 2% to 3% in a year. The best figure based on studies is about 2.3% depletion rate per year. When I got my vehicle I was initially only getting about 170 to 200 kms per charge cycle. With software updates to the BMS, it has gone up significantly in the last year of me driving the vehicle. Also another thing to know is, this degradation starts to speed us after you battery has completed about 70% to 80% of its rated charge cycle. for our calculation let us consider 70% charge cycle for rapid degradation. Once your battery has completed its rated charge cycle, it is still capable of holding charge is about 40% of its original output. It does not happen that it simply stops one day. Now, getting to the calculations: Note: all the calculations are rounded to the closest ceiling value. If my vehicle is rated for 3000 charge cycles and is capable of doing a total of 690000kms and I drive about 24000kms in a year, that is about 105 charge cycles in a year (104.347826087 to be exact). Adding 2.3% degradation for the 1st year, my range would drop by 6kms, so in 2nd year I would get about 224kms per 100% charge. Extrapolating this to reach 70% charge cycle (2100 cycles), please find the table below: Year kms per 100% charge Charge cycle in year Total Charge Cycle Total kms 1st year 230 105 105 24000 2nd year 224 108 213 48000 3rd year 219 110 323 60000 4th year 213 113 436 88000 5th year 208 116 552 120000 6th year 203 119 671 144000 7th year 198 122 793 168000 8th year 193 125 918 192000 9th year 188 128 1046 216000 This goes to show, after 9years and 216000 on odo, I still am just 1/3 of my batteries life. When the company clams 8 years is the warranty of battery, it does not mean the battery is dead or you need to replace it. An average Li-ion battery used in EVs life cycle is about 12 to 18 years and even then it holds about 40% capacity, ie 12kvh in case of nexons battery. That alone if you use or go out to sell would fetch quite a lot. A lot more than a 9 year old 216k on odo diesel or petrol nexon I guess. Sure you sited a person who had a battery replacement to be done after 68k and I have heard about many who had to change batteries even before 10k from our pan India nexon group. However, these are edge cases. If this is what we are to take, we also need to say we need to take the cost of replacing the petrol or diesel engine after 24 months or 75K period (or whatever is the warranty on ICE nexon). And there is a lot more, but I am tired now, so I will stop here. If you need any further clarity on how I reached the numbers or find any errors, please feel free to connect. Thank you

[@autocritic]

This is amazing info, and so kind of you to share this with everyone to help them out..do connect with me on Instagram would love to have a call with you regarding your experience..god bless

[@amankaushal9516]

True.. Also even if you go for full replacement of battery its not utterly useless with no resale value.. Places which have solar panel installed can use these batteries as the cost of these batteries would be comparable to the big lead acid batteries being used by them even at half capacity..

[@amankaushal9516]

Subhasis buddy I am also planning to buy an ev.. Is there a way I can connect with you?

[@subhobose0003]

@@autocritic Hi, Sorry but I don't have an Instagram really. We can try telegram though. Thanks!!

[@subhobose0003]

@@amankaushal9516 Sure bro, if you have telegram, share your ID and I will get in touch. Thanks!!

[@vikramreddykj]

All batteries have a cycle life, number of times you can have a delta of 100% capacity (let's say you start the car with 75% charge, and use till 25%, it's 50% of a cycle. If you again charge till 75% and discharge to 25% next day, that's the remaining 50%, and you just completed one complete cycle in 2 days) Rated cycles usually mean you have 70-80% SoH by the time you reach that many cycles. A phone has about 500 cycles. So a phone gives at most 1.5-2y on daily charging. Most laptops have 1500, but since it's used mostly plugged in (as suggested), you can easily use one for 5y+ without substantial effect on battery life. LFP batteries in most EVs have 3000 cycles. If you keep driving 100% daily (one cycle per day ie 250km in case of Nexon), you'll take 3000 days to reach 70-80% SoH. And it would be 7.5L on the odo. SoH essentially mean effective capacity, like rubbing a bucket on its brim everyday, the capacity of the bucket will reduce similarly, the battery with 80% Health has only 80% of the original capacity, ie 24kWh instead of 30kWh in case of Nexon. Found this comment on reddit by user: _7567Rex

[@SrinivasPrasadJayaram]

Lithium battery price should come down definitely. More over Tata or Mahindra will come with Battery Swapping facilities. Regarding battery availability it will be there at least for 25 years. Reason I say is still we manage to get battery for mobile like 1100 in market.

[@RnR1001]

Prices won't come down.

[@malaybarupal]

मैं सोचता हूं कि तुलनात्मक रूप से कम प्रदूषण के कारण ev को प्रमोट किया जाना चाहिए। तकनीकी उन्नति के साथ साथ battery cost कम होने की भी संभावना है।

[@pronagpur4762]

Bhai pradushana kaise kam hoga, jo tum battery charge karte ho, bijli kaha se ban rahi hai

[@malaybarupal]

@@pronagpur4762 हम बिजली सौर ऊर्जा से भी पैदा कर सकते हैं।

[@pronagpur4762]

Mein abhi jo ho raha hai uski baat kar raha hu bhai, abhi battery charge karne me indirect pradushan ho raha hai... Karne ke liye toh paidal bhi ja skte car ki kya jarurat..but karta koi nhi na

[@jigneshpatel-mv3go]

I already Installed 4 KVA Solar system,so there no problem of pollution and light bill

[@roger1857]

I couldn't come to conclusions whether to opt EV or not from your clip. You have just focussed on pollution, battery cost & resale value. Have you thought about diesel & petrol cost? Whether India is 100% self supported? or have to spend money on import? Whether EV will save on the import? Is it possible to use solar energy for charging which will minimize the cost of charging too. By opting EV, whether we are maintaining ourselves in the world stream?

[@shivaranjanb3006]

Being from younger generation I don't know why you are so negative about EV. While the points you laid out are valid, at the end if the day apart from the low end cars every other car is just a luxury and expensive affair. I will counter your negative points with below. 1. Cities like Delhi should definitely ban ICE vehicles immediately otherwise health and life of people is under threat. Though net net it may not make global warming zero EV is net positive effect on environment especially cities. 2. You say about battery. I am sure Tata realises this and hence giving warranty of 8 years or 1.6 lac kms. Isn't that sufficient? I am sure in 8 years time there will be better battery which can be plugged in to the existing cars. India is still a better EV market than hugely expensive international market.

[@animeshrose]

Bro it’s all about costs. Cars have become necessity now a days, they’re no more a luxury. EVs are good but understand, that to mine rare earth metals you need to spend fossil fuels, in order to charge you need electricity that too comes from fossil fuels. Most of the pollution comes from heavier vehicles and industries that release untreated exhaust into air. Now, if you use smartphones, you must know that there is no huge difference in batteries technologies that has come, instead they’re doing away with the protective barriers to increase the capacity. EVs are for future but why a normal middle class would bear the load, why not tighten the grip on big industries and HMVs before catering to LMVs. I would prefer Hydrogen cars that emit water as a byproduct rather pitching for EVs and the costly replacements of Batteries both to the user and the environment.

[@chaitanyag.8415]

Brother prices of ev battery will reduce overtime. If you see Lithium ion battery prices from 2010 to 2020, prices have reduced by over 90%. And main benefit is pollution will be reduced inside Cities(Pollution may happen in Li Mines and Power stations) and our imports for Arab Countries will reduce. And Lithium will get recycled after battery dies so we save on lithium mines pollution as well.

[@SriHarshaaa]

Congrats buddy, Now you are eligible to buy Hero Cycle.. 👏 👏

[@rajoosolanky780]

Agree with you fully. According to me Battery Kms range would reduce by 10-15% per each year. After 5 years the Battery range inspite of being full charge might offer you 50% less kms Range. EVs Cars also requires once a year Regular Servicing which might be close to ICE Cars. You got to also consider higher Insurance Premium calculated because EVs are ₹ 3.5 - 5 lacs more expensive than ICE Cars. So overall EVs Cars will turn out to be Expensive only on paper when you count per km cost comparision with ICE. Would say EVs are PAPER TIGER Only.

[@sudhakark1868]

I do agree the technology is dynamic…but if we wait to get some thing new today that may be old tomorrow, so be happy and adopt the technology that is available today and make life comfortable rather than thinking for technology of tomorrow’s and The charge cycles for lfp battery would in in between 2000 to 3000 charge cycles with linear degradation of 10 to 20 percent.

[@rajoosolanky780]

@@sudhakark1868I agree with you completely. But EV is an evolving Technology in present state. Lot of exploration of newer development of Batteries & Charging technologies are very much on. Maybe by 2025 they might be Made in India Batteries & chances of affordability will be a reality. That would be the time to invest in EVs.

[@rakeshshastri2487]

Source for the 10-15%/year claim?

[@rajoosolanky780]

@@rakeshshastri2487 Your Source it would not. I have been using Li-ion Batteries & technology for Photography in my Cameras & Flashlights for more than 3 decades & from my experience I can say its life deteriorates by 15-25% per Year after its charged for the 1st time. So these Batteries would show full charge in 4th year as well. But power output drops to less than 15%. Practically we got to discard those Batteries. Lets consider the technologies are improving everyday but check Co. Warranty please. If the EV Car Co. offers warranty for 8 Years or 1,60,000 kms. It says it all. You got to understand the reason as well. Chances are there would certainly be few cells which needs to change from the group of cells. That's to minimise the entire battery replacement in short time, due to reduction in range after full charge. Hope I have been able to clear your doubts a little in my way.

[@animeshrose]

@@sudhakark1868 why you don’t understand that it’s a costly affair. Why to adopt a evolving technology?

[@shambhukumarray3733]

मैंने इन बातों पर पूरा मंथन किया है। मैन्युफैक्चरर्स से संपर्क भी किया है।उनका कहना है कि ईवी व्हीकल्स की बैटरी अनेकानेक सेल्स से बनी होती है और सारे के सारे सेल्स का एक बार ही डेड हो जाना संभव नहीं है।डेड सेल्स को बदलना बहुत मंहगा नहीं है और बैटरी का बैकअप फिर से बढ़ जाता है।

[@manu7815]

Dear lot of lithium deposits are in RAJASTHAN AND OTHER STATES IN INDIA BATTERY PRICE WILL COME DOWN. I THINK SO. PAPER BATTERIES ALL WILL COME IN CARS AND UPGRADED. BATTERY PACKS. TOO. JIE AISA DEKA TOU KOYIE GADIE NAHIE NEKALAKA. HAHAA. YOURS OPION IS ALSO RIGHT JIE👍

[@nandanschool4477]

आने वाले समय में जब battery भारत में बनने लगेगा तो अपने-आप ही price कम हो जायेगा।दूसरी बात पूरी battery भी बदलने की जरूरत नहीं है बल्कि cell भी बदली जा सकती है।

[@ashu1432003]

aapne jo analysis kiye hai kafi had tak sahi hai lekin future unpredicted hai, India jaisi country mein 10 or vikalp mil jaate hai, maruti cars ke parts ghar ghar banne lag gaye the or duplicate parts etne genuine milte the ki company walo ke genuine parts bhi nakali lage. Ek baar eV ka market ban jaaye to wahan humare local mechanics sab sambhal lete hai, traditional cars mein to fir bhi hazaro parts hote hai ev mein to kuch 100 components hai to log bilkul dusara vikalp dundh hi lenge jisse hum jugaad bolte hai.

[@UdayKumar-xo8ey]

First and foremost.... lithium ion battery cost has come down by 60% in past 4 years...... And will further come down every year. Infact EV ka daam bhi Kam hoga har saal. Secondly...... Lithium ion battery ek pack hota hai...... Non availability ka sawal hi nahi uthta..... Even single cell can be replaced ar all cells can be replaced. Third point is...... Aaj jo EV hum dekh rahe hein... Actually pure EV nahin hai. It is basically the same car with engine removed and motor installed. Actuall EV mein 4 hub motor hoga har wheel pe..... Controlled pro strategically by electronic speed controller (ESC) unit . In this case no differential system is required and still it will be AWD full time. This will also reduce the vehicle weight and indirectly increase the range also. Fourth point is.... Baar baar jis extra ki baat kar rahe ho..... Don't forget that is extra mein pure automatic gadi mil Raha hai .... True auto mode better than CVT .....( Not AMT type). And also remember 7 litre engine oil ka paise har saal Bach Raha hai. Periodic service cost is only 1000/_ Also Break pad will last for 6+ years which is double the duration compared to petrol/ disel car. Also...Registration of EV is valid for 25 years... Ie. 10 years more than normal car. It's is very easy in lithium ion battery to read the life cycle / battery age. A simple potential rush timing of ions from anode fetches the life of battery.

[@bibek-basu]

Insurance companies don't offer coverage to batteries in case of damages due to accident. This is a big concern. I'll never consider an EV until this is addressed.

[@yourtv2711]

The whole video had only 2 points 1.resale 2.battery.. first thing people buying evs are not thinking of ev resale they are just like use and save but not resale second battery prices will go down and companies will mange to fit more capacity battery to old vechile

[@RnR1001]

On what basis do you say that battery prices will go down? Just check a a normal car battery, has the prices gone down? We are using does types of batteries like forever.

[@goodhuduga]

EVs need another 2-3 years to mature and outsmart Internal combustion engines (ICE)

[@manulakhanpal6568]

Kindly do the research about TATA. THEY ARE GIVING WARRANTY ON BATTERIES FOR 8 YEARS / 160000 KM whichever achieve earlier. So kindly go through your thoughts again. Cost of replacement of batteries after 8 years will be low as new technology is always costly. Remember the era of mobile phones. How the reduce the cost over the time period. Also when the ridership will increase it will decrease the cost of production. So I disagree with you.

[@Nursing_Officer_RML]

Ya that make sense it is like spending your all money at once and then milking it slowly at end everything has pros and cons

[@RnR1001]

Has India really sorted out its power problems?

[@ashwinisonwane688]

अरे भाई, कुछ सेल बदलने पडते है... घबराना छोड... गाडी खरीद लो...गाडी टाटा कि खरेदी कैसी होती है..वह व्हिडीओ बनाना...

[@VGwareSystems]

barometer testing , battery - gravity test.

[@RRStudioVelsao]

Title says Tiago but reference in video on nexon

[@umeshkanaujia9221]

आप। ये कह सकते हैं कि बैटरी के रेट बढ़ जायेगा बैटरी टेक्नोलॉजी बढ़ने से आने वाले समय में रेट कम होंगे

[@nitinpuri]

Plz make extension video in context with tiago ev too

[@babbarsher413]

Tata gives 8 year battery waranty Petrol diesel cars gives 3 years waranty Winner is ev

[@TheMdsami777]

Thanks, informative video

[@chintu77pintu]

You didn't talk anything about warrenty, 160000 kms or 8 years. So long as that is there you don't really need to worry What research have you done about vacation mode under which battery stays dead yet fully alive when u come from vacation and switch to normal mode. Battery cost for Nexon EV. 6.5 LACS. PETROL IN CITY @105 PER LITER FOR 160000 GIVES PER KM COST RS7 to 8/ KM. Petrol cost for petrol car = 160,000 x 7.5 = 12,00,000/- !!! And still rising.! Even the inflation in general or of LITHIUM ION BATTERY IS BASED ON FUEL OIL PRICE. why not make Li Ion base of survival instead petrol when it is comparatively free. Atleast in city areas. Everybody must reduce pollution atleast in city, we ll have couple of decade more to leave. Tigor EV COST ONLY 8 TO 9 LACS ON ROAD. RUNNING COST IS UPTO RS 1 PER KMS. FOR EV THAT TOO SERVICE INCLUDED. AFTER DRIVING 160000 KMS YOU ONLY PUT PUT IN RS. 160000 RUPEES. GET A 3.3 KW SOLAR ROOF TOP., WHICH LAST FOR 25 YAERS (ADANI), YOU GET RS 2500 RUPEES PER MONTH IN TERMS OF ELECTRIC POWER THROUGH PANEL. BHAI YOU ARE USING YOUR NEXON OR TIGOR FOR FREE IN CITY. THINK WETHER YOU WANT TO BURN 12,00,000 FOR 160,000 KMS (with some breathing problems in future) OR INVEST IN EV TO TRAVEL "FREE" TO LEAVE COUPLE OF DECADES MORE.

[@autocritic]

Appreciate your effort to share your views. Very well explained

[@andy4dude]

bro not that informative u missed a lot of points

[@subashtechnical5927]

Bhai ya future hai Petrol khatam ho jana sa kya karoga

[@juandase5929]

There is no way this can be future, it is just another option. Petrol is reduced going forward, because of bio fuel coming to picture. There is no way IC vehicles going out of market as well.

[@ashishsharma6089]

@@juandase5929 ekdam right

[@vatanmaan1779]

बैट्री सस्ती होंगी ना की महंगी।

[@vatanmaan1779]

India में तुम जैसे लोगो को लगता है ये अभी आई हैं। दुनिया में ev 15 साल पहले से चल रही हैं

[@jhj951]

Bhai battery puri change nhi hoti sirf kharaab battery change hori hai

[@bimalray6038]

Bhai fullbattery change karne ka koi ja 8:35 roorat nahi hoga .cell change karke bhi samadhan ho sakta hai.negetivity ko chorie.Miss guide mat kijie.

[@myclass7938]

Home men charge ho sakti hai kya?

[@anshulkumar9724]

ho sakti h

[@jhj951]

Aane wale time mein battery ssti hogi

[@ravindrasinghchauhan2262]

Technical 💯 Persent ✅ ✌️✌️ 👏

[@abhishekgautam456]

Superb video like always

[@autocritic]

Thank you so much sir 🙌🙏

[@kirankumarmrjain]

@@autocritic sir ignis zeta or baleno please suggest

[@juandase5929]

@@kirankumarmrjain Baleno for space, seats comfort, modern features. If budget is the only factor, then go for Ignis or else wait for new modal ignis, which is getting launched.

[@ayush885]

@@autocritic You overlooked one aspect of EV battery in the future: price decrease due to easy availablity. 10 years back, an 8 GB pen drive used to cost ₹1000, now I can buy a 64GB one for ₹1600, when rupee has devalued from ₹60 to ₹80 a dollar.

[@hiiiiii6486]

नेगेटिव reporting

[@manindersv]

Bro u r ill informed.

[@autocritic]

Ill informed about what? Price of battery? Resale? The time needed to improve execution?