TBE Character Sheet Overview!

[@nathanculver9252]

Your rules for weapon reach are great, love it. One suggestion: as soon as the shorter reach weapon hits and wounds, the bonuses shift to the shorter reach weapon. This is a good reflection of real combat and doesn't add any extra cognitive load or bookkeeping. This game is awesome man, keep it up.

[@MagnificentDevil]

That isn't a bad suggestion, it represents getting inside the opponent's guard where the long reach is a hinderance and not an advantage. Even if not an official rule, I'd be tempted to try it as a house rule. It also then forces a choice on the long weapon user of trying to reposition or dropping that weapon to draw a short sword or something.

[@Nezarus0]

It is super fun to see a theme in ttrpgs of weapon reach mechanics returning. Stangely enough, I remember a rule and a chart, I think in ADnD 1e, that laid out a rule for initiative always being won (or a huge bonus or something) 1st round by the weapons with the most reach, but then switched to the weapons with the shortest reach on subsequent rounds. This was to be resolved for every time combatants came together or clashed. Suddenly the fact that fighters have proficiency in every weapon and carry a lot of weapons actually meant something.

[@nathanculver9252]

@@MagnificentDevil yes, great explanation. I 💯 agree. It'd be my house rule too. This is how it works in the TTRPG The Riddle of Steel, love that combat system. They got reach right.

[@nathanculver9252]

@@Nezarus0 yeah, reach mechanisms are great. Didn't know that, thanks.

[@matheusm.8784]

This character sheet got me way too excited! It made me adjust my pledge by adding more stuff. My wife is going to kill me, but that's fine, as long as I can play the game before that. I love how Forbidden Lands deals with resources, and I really liked that you adopted this here. In my games, we always try to come up with reasons why the resources went down too fast-like a hole in someone's bag or it being too hot, so everyone drinks more water. It always creates interesting narratives that you wouldn't get if you were just managing numbers on a sheet. As a graduate in economics and a nerd on the subject, I'm not so sure if I dig the abstraction level you're aiming for on the wealth aspect. In the campaigns I run, the economy and players' wealth are always major aspects, specially when it comea to the actual material aspect of it. But with that said, I like how you described that wealth is more than just the number of coins; it's also a social asset, gravitas, access, and other intangible benefits, and hey, I trust you, Trevor, I want to see what you come up with. I can always adapt or "homebrew" that aspect of the game to my liking. Great stuff as always, my friend! It got me super excited, even more than I already was.

[@SeekersHollow]

Like how you have broken the skills into categories: Combat / Adventuring / Social / Lore. I love wounds and hit location systems, too! Also, big fan of the abstracted resources, simplifies the counting and induces tension. There's nothing more boring than knowing you need about 20 rations, buying 40-50 before the trip and just managing the bookkeeping while knowing you will almost certainly not ever find yourself with too little rations for the given time / distance you plan to travel because you bought 2x more than you need.

[@MrCQrity]

Sounds to me like the consequences aren't fully played out. Who is carrying all those resources? How does that affect things? Also, why didn't the GM threat those rations in some way? Create challenges around keeping those safe and intact? Ofc you don't need rations in the game if you don't let them inform gameplay.

[@CantRIP9389]

I'm the sort of DM that sees that as an opportunity to run games where those resources matter. They just want to buy excess rations? Encumbrance and expiry dates 😈

[@rickyrivera5316]

So excited to play this ! Really love streamlined everything looks, I wasn’t confused by anything on the sheet

[@vigilantgamesllc]

This is even more streamlined than I expected. It looks great!

[@darecarrasquillo]

loving how it's still largely based on human interpretation - which is creative/fun. i always hate when mechanics/stats limit my creativity to solve a problem/task

[@mattreagan4347]

So excited for this game, especially the Wound system (and magic system) which look so fun! My only question with wounds is whether that level of detail is also tracked for each enemy/NPC in combat? For a boss fight it seems fine, but for a band of 10 goblins I can imagine it feeling like a difficult amount of bookkeeping. Just curious how that is handled for lots of enemies. Thanks for sharing this preview of the character sheet

[@MeMyselfandDieRPG]

2 things about that: 1) there is book keeping, there’s no way around getting detailed results without it. But 2) there are ways to help. There is something called Ferocity which basically tells you how many wounds a creature will take before they quit the fight.

[@jcraigwilliams70]

@@MeMyselfandDieRPG I would imagine that tracking wounds is really only important if the enemy chooses to continue in combat. If they take a wound and decide to flee/ surrender, it probably doesn't matter much if they surrendered after a leg wound or gut wound.

[@CScott-wh5yk]

Partitioning the skills by category is genius. I don’t usually like skill-based games because it’s a lot to remember, but this format makes it really intuitive.

[@agrayday7816]

Thank you for sharing. For me i think Ride would be "Mounts", Sail/boat would be "Navigation", Tools & Traps would be" Mechanics", and sleight of hand as "Trickery". Thinking about broader terms for the same type of skill that is inclusive of other uses.

[@darylehret]

Protocol would be called "Etiquette" in Warhammer Fantasy

[@adalada5933]

Very nice thanks for the sharing. Couple of thoughts for improvements: idealy everything to be rolled should be on the front page, language skills could be where Piety is, with Piety moved up just below "witness" ; and ressource die would be nice also on the front page but space is expansive obvisoulsy^^. Also I see the alphabetical order is chosen for skills, but it feels odd at first impression to not see related skills next to each other (ex: track and survival, or all elements of the strands). Continue the good work :)

[@BaltazarQc]

I feel also that fraying should find a way near binds and stands as it appears related, even though I'm sure sure what it is yet 😊

[@MagnificentDevil]

​@@BaltazarQcIIRC, Fraying is permanent magical damage from weave backlash, not a skill.

[@SaintSolo]

Very exciting to get an actual feel for the game

[@ARKavli]

I like the idea of expressing stats as skills, especially when many BRP type games have you roll DEX x 5 for a % target anyway.

[@YannMiollan]

The cool thing about stats is that it can answer questions like "is my character smart? is my character strong?"

[@ARKavli]

@@YannMiollan I think you can get the same if you have a "might" skill or a "reason" skill. One of the things I like about stats is that generally they are random while skill points are distributed. I'm curious to see how the stat/skills will be determined in TBE: randomly, point buy, or via the life path system Trevor mentions. I actually prefer random or partially random character creation.

[@YannMiollan]

@@ARKavli Yes, I've seen in Mythras you roll your stats first, and to me that is like being "born" with a potential to be strong or dextrous or smart etc, and the skills represent what you choose to learn or practice.

[@MagnificentDevil]

In a large number of games the actual stat doesn't really matter beyond character creation. It always irked me that attributes had such prominence but almost no mechanical impact after chargen. If you want a descriptor like strong or intelligent, invest in skills that communicate that to you. It doesn't need to show it on a glance to someone else. YOU made the character, you already know who they are.

[@ArkhBaegor]

I'm just really excited you're including solo rules given your experience with solo play

[@Spacemutiny]

I’m most excited about the combat and magic system. I will incorporate those into my solo gaming sessions for sure! The skills are pretty awesome too.

[@aaronabel4756]

Love what you are doing. I am digging everything about this game, and for the first time in a long time I am caring about the art in an RPG. Please keep the current art direction.

[@astrolama-p3o]

Looks amazing! If I would suggest something, maybe to put "Starting Piety" with the main descriptors, maybe after "Career"? After all, this is not a skill that the player tracks, but rather a character's background. This way, you will have a lot of space for the languages below "Binds", although this would break the nice separation for magical skills ...

[@astrolama-p3o]

also I would separate Shield from Armor Penalties, doesn't feel like it belongs there

[@adalada5933]

100% agree

[@primusinterpares5767]

Very good point

[@JamalBakari]

The algorithm brought me here and I don't know what game you're talking about until @0:55

[@alderaancrumbs6260]

I immediately thought how cool it would be to spy on a group of bandits at their camp through Witness Fire. I love the magic!

[@Stephen-Fox]

My immediate thought on that lines was 'could I use witness beasts to see through the eyes of a specific animal for scouting?'

[@Nezarus0]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the intention is you would just sense or see and understand the fire. A bandit isn't a fire, so you would the ability to sense fire show you the things around it. Honesty if I recall from Ars Magicka (the main inspiration Trevor used for his magic system), scrying without actual line of sight (by modifying your own eyesight) is fairly convoluted and difficult.

[@CantRIP9389]

@@Nezarus0 That's how I'd view it too. But I could imagine, through a lucky role perhaps, how senses could be extended through that point of contact. Feeling when someone is adding wood to the fire, for example, or a large animal being roasted over that fire. Perhaps even a Daredevil-like interpretation of available info... the wind blowing into the fire disturbed by the bodies standing next to it (that'd be pretty high skill borderline superhero stuff though)

[@Mankcam]

Thanks for posting this Jeff. Great to see a version of the character sheet and the skills. Looks pretty cool!!!

[@JakubWojtowitz]

Melee: Might - is this your raw strength? Not only to fist fight but to lift heavy objects? If I'm correct I would change name to Might and in description I would refer to unarmed melee combat.

[@astrolama-p3o]

Good point

[@Thanaeon]

I think it's probably more like two-handed swords and axes, big weapons like that.

[@Nwise916]

@@Thanaeon I think he specified that those would be under the slow weapons

[@MagnificentDevil]

I think it would cover fists and other impact weapons, like clubs.

[@ARKavli]

You should use some cool olde tyme type personality traits, like wrathful, sanguine, and choleric. A lot of folks won't be familiar with those terms, but it would sound cool to me. :)

[@007nikster2]

Imo Craft should be customizable like the "wises." Players should be hyper-specific crafts like, armor crafting, weapon smithing, boyer, etc.

[@MagnificentDevil]

I think Trevor specifically did not do it that way to keep it "Sim Light". There are already plenty of Sim games with granular skills. Mythras already exists.

[@007nikster2]

@@MagnificentDevil that wouldn't make the game more difficult at all. It would be just a customizable skill.

[@CantRIP9389]

Perhaps that would work if coupled with more abundance of skill points to gain? Personally, I'd like the general categories with less benefit from having them paired with specific skills for specializations which have really more powerful benefit but focused application. Make everything a bit more difficult and make room for them both to work together. ... but... yeah: "-lite"

[@rikwilliams6352]

Yup very excited about this, if I hadnt already backed it I would now after watching this. Very cool.

[@b.lloydreese2030]

Looks like a lot of stuff, makes my ADHD a little nervous. I hope it will end up being simple, and/or we can get a good tutorial. I do like that the skill based theme, kind of motivates you to find solutions beyond combat Still excited for the game

[@YannMiollan]

Yea, this is one of the reasons why Trevor hesitated to show the character sheet: we don't have all the explanations we will have in the book and it's still a work in progress...

[@b.lloydreese2030]

​@@YannMiollanyeah, as he explained it, it seemed easier to get, so i hope to see that its sinple. I am easily overwhelmed by TMI so hope its simple, especially for solo play

[@MagnificentDevil]

The sheet seems well-organized which is key in it being easy to use and comprehensible. A lot of games have a character sheet that looks like a tax return. This seems much more intuitive.

[@afBeaver]

Like it. Looks like it really takes the best parts from the different BRP implementations!

[@gandalf970]

I have been using Central Casting: Heroes of Legend for many years to create a detailed rich background for my characters.

[@_grumpytoad]

Love this character sheet, Trevor! As you said in a previous video: a lot can be learned about a game system by looking at the character sheet and I, like you, tend to do this first. I have loved all your vids about TBE so far, but THIS ONE has been the most informative for me, personally. So thank you! Will you be doing a video on monsters for your system? (I think you mentioned the core book will have a small bestiary.)

[@Epik3270]

Loving everything so far! You mentioned Heal is very powerful. I wonder if splitting it into something like Heal Trauma (wounds and such) and Heal Disease could be a good way to keep from making one skill a kind of no-brainer skill. Just a thought should it become necessary.

[@JainaSoloB312]

That's a great idea!

[@anathamon]

can’t wait till october 2025!

[@JonasSusara]

Hi Trevor, Yeah, the charsheet looks so far, so good! I do have a couple of questions... 1. What's the connection between the Weave and the Divine? Could it be the gods became so powerful, they were able to carved ( or sew) out their own "patch" on the Weave? Just speculatin' here, haha 2. I like Resolve being the "meta currency" because it's directly connected to one's goals. What's the base number of boxes, how does it refresh/increase, and how is it related to goals and experience points? Thanks for the vid 🙂

[@SkittleBombs]

Just change it to flattery

[@JonasSusara]

​@@SkittleBombs ?

[@JediMasterYoda66]

Congrats on reaching $300,000!

[@vortakgames]

Hey Trevor, awesome as always, are the life events a random thing in character creation?

[@astrolama-p3o]

I like that the resources are abstracted. The tension introduced by supply dice e.g. In The Black Sword Hack is amazing, and I think that counting exact amounts of money is completely unnecessary, especially that most of the time this are small amounts that make no difference at all.

[@roelandbeukenkamp319]

Hey Trevor, I backed and look forward to this RPG!. Important to me is that you have some achetyps charachter sheets to get a feeling for the system. And a lot of npc's to start as a GM!

[@Kyrnsword]

Interesting. At least the character sheet so - far is just 1 page.

[@antoyal]

I like what I see! This goes a long way toward showing the game's influences and the core principles of your design. Also, I feel like the character sheet is a hugely important part of a game's first impression, so good job on that. 5:41 A quick question here though, regarding stat-less skills. I'm quite used to games like Aftermath!, Harnmaster, and others that use core attributes to determine a skill's Skill Base -- that is, the starting skill level, as you describe -- but also as indicators of the character's innate talent. A higher skill base doesn't just give a character an initial bump to their skill level, but also contributes to the character's maximum skill level as well as how easily they will be able to improve it during the campaign. So that made me wonder how TBE handles skill improvement. I apologize if you've covered this elsewhere, but does it use improve-by-doing, self-study and training, book learning, teacher-led instruction...?

[@Nezarus0]

I don't know if details have been put out somewhere, but it has been mentioned several times that advancement is unlocked via making progress on the goals.

[@keithmcgrath687]

I like the approach you are going for. I'd like to see a let's play to show off the system.

[@DanischDutchDad]

The system sounds great. One thing for solo play: would it be possible to have piety as a resource die? So when you do pious things, your die increases. If you do things that go against your god, it decreases (not rolling). If you ask for a miracle, you roll. Keeps it unsure, but you can also track it on your own. And you only have to explain the system once.

[@RangerJackWalker]

I think you should have a couple of blank spaces below each column of the skills so groups can add more skills if they want, like you did with '_____wise'.

[@Stephen-Fox]

Love the categorization of skills, that's a lot more sensible of an organization schema than other skill based games I've played with pure alphabetical. ...And I can't help but wonder if 150 skills is a dig at GURPS specifically or if there are other games with similarly... Expansive... skill lists.

[@Nezarus0]

Looks super cool! The amount of times I tried to scroll down is embarrasing. I think it would be best to try and squeeze skill penalties into the main skill list. Having to remember there are penalties from armor encumbrance somewhere near the bottom left feels odd. I get why you didn't, but I would encourage you to stick the languages on the front, potentially above the binds so they don't feel like part of the magic grouping. The only real negative impression for me is the resouces section. I'm stunned you went with such abstracted concepts for resources, wealth and ammunition. This seems totally against the grain with the sim-lite. How does it track that I have armor on my left arm in particular, but if I grab some candles out of my backpack suddenly I have no rope? How do you track encumbrance, which is usually a big deal in sim systems, if I don't even know what I am carrying? Heck, I half-expected multiple currencies and exchange rates based on coin material and weight. Yes, these little die mechanics are super cool, but they belong in a system where my character sheet fits comfortable on an index card and we are using the die to find out if I had previously packed something after the fact. In a sim style game, choosing what to pack is part of the game IMHO. Wealth and investments like businesses and rental property sounds awesome...for an expansion book that handles more options for long-term play. In that expansion, you could include bastions and strongholds, mass combat, options to simulate business activities and economies, etc. etc.

[@christophstocker9826]

Love all about this game! How is food and water handled in the resources section? Is that part of the gear dice? Imho, that would deserve its own dice type...

[@CantRIP9389]

The abstracted wealth fires the imagination for a survivalist situation where business is done more by barter than state currency. Going to be a bit of a struggle for accepting that "you randomly run out of ammunition" situation, though.

[@lorepastor186]

I love everything you're working on here, brother! Just a thought, why not call "Divinity" "Theology"?

[@MeMyselfandDieRPG]

‘Cause Divinity sounds kewwwwler 🥸😁

[@lorepastor186]

@@MeMyselfandDieRPG Got me there, haha. You are a much cooler dude than I too, ha. Thanks for an awesome Kickstarter!

[@astrolama-p3o]

Would it make sense for the supply dice levels have encumbrance as well?

[@fredericjaquet3729]

If I remember well what I heard in the video, I think Trevor said each supply dice is worth 2 encumbrance points.

[@YannMiollan]

When talking about "sleight of hand", Trevor mentioned "jeu de mains", but I'm not sure what the later means in English?

[@MeMyselfandDieRPG]

“Legerdemain”.

[@007nikster2]

He mentioned "legerdemain". It's a fancy term for sleight of hand

[@fredericjaquet3729]

Hi, french speaking guy here ! As Trevor said, it's not "jeu de main", bit *if it was* it would mean, litterally translated, "game of hand".

[@ArkhBaegor]

@@007nikster2 Fancy, aka French. "léger" means light. So literally "Light of hand'. It is potentially a mistranslation, as in Middle English "sleight" was also an alternate spelling of "slight" "("sleight" in "sleight of hand" is more related to "sly"). It is unclear which term appeared first.

[@drdryg7278]

A couple of reflections: Firstly the personality part. If you crit and shift your personality then the change will be exponential and force personality into only extremes. It feels odd to have a trusting person trust more and more despite maybe getting decieved more and more. Maybe either make the shift in the opposite direction or have a clear mechanic to shift personality if the PC has his/her personality challenged, for instance being trusting and then face the consequences of having been tricked etc. Secondly, hit locations. If you count body surface area the chest and abdomen is approximately 37%, each leg 18%, an arm 9% and the head 9%. If you would be hit by a random, unaimed object the body would be hit on a 1-4 on a d10. In a melee fight one tends to protect the body and head, using your arms and legs and if you hold forth a sword, there is a much larger risk of getting hit on that arm. Getting the statistics right is probably minutia which does not suit your system but maybe a slight tweak might be ok? Maybe change the arms to Main arm and Second arm? Give the Body 1-4, Main arm (or Front arm ) 5-6 and second arm 7? Looking forward to playing your game later on. Good work!

[@MagnificentDevil]

Personality system does not mean it will be forced to the extremes because roleplay always trumps the personality system, which is itself optional. The player can always decide how the PC acts. They only roll personality when they are unsure how the PC would act. Players can choose to never roll personality traits. However, an easy house rule is to allow the player to shift the personality trait in either direction on a crit as they see fit for the character.

[@drdryg7278]

@@MagnificentDevil Sure! I understand. I merely point out that if the system is used as described, the exponential shift towards extremes is a consequence.

[@aaronhumphrey3514]

I'm considering backing this, but is there any word on if we'll get some playtesting material soonish afterwards or are we just going to have to wait until full release to try the game out?

[@gunner22484]

@3:50 Probably more of a GM/Table thing but will there be mechanics for a player to manually trigger a score roll outside of critting? For example if a plot event like an extremely trusted and beloved NPC betrays the party could the GM allow players to trigger a shift roll 1d4 (or even 1D10 if the player feels EXTREMLY slighted) and those players move towards suspicious or maybe even vengeful?

[@Finniganmydog]

Please Please include the option of non-abstracted wealth!

[@Rhawin]

Just found the kickstarter and thinking of backing before closing, How developed is the solo mode?

[@MeMyselfandDieRPG]

The game is not explicitly designed as a solo game, but the solo tools are being created by Tana Pigeon of the Mythic GME and Shawn Tomkin of Ironsworn.

[@MrDowntemp0]

seems like there's no reason to spend resolve before the roll, better to just do it after the roll so you don't waste any? Or did I miss something? If not, maybe the before roll resolve should be worth more, or you can spend more before than you're permitted after, or some other way to balance it. Or are you allowed a total of adding 3 before the roll and another 3 after?

[@MeMyselfandDieRPG]

Resolve either adds +10 before the roll, increasing your chances of success; or it adds +1 SL to a successful roll, having no effect on a failure. Lower skills benefit more from Resolve before the roll, higher skills from Resolve after.

[@MrDowntemp0]

@@MeMyselfandDieRPG Interesting! I bet those nuances will be more clear once I get to roll my own checks :)

[@danielv6906]

Stagger stagger, fall, crawl crawl, roll, get up... 😂

[@matthewbrown4137]

I'm really interested in seeing Pendragon's traits system. I love this in Pendragon and haven't seen it in other games. I really like that aspect of Pendragon, though, because in that game, you cannot be selective. If you say you are brave, then you have to act brave to keep the trait. Will it be the same in Broken Empires?

[@MagnificentDevil]

No, not as Trevor explained it. He has said the personality system is both optional and voluntary. The player can choose to roleplay the character however they want, only using the personality traits when they are unsure how the PC would act. Players never need to use them.

[@matthewbrown4137]

@@MagnificentDevil-I think it would be cool to make it more akin to your reputation, so characters can behave however they want, but then the world pushes back and reacts to those choices. If it's just personality and is optional and even voluntary, even if you use the option, then giving it valuable space on the character sheet seems an odd design choice. Of course, it's Travor's game; he can do what he wants.

[@MagnificentDevil]

​@@matthewbrown4137 I personally wouldn't want to add another vector of bookkeeping to the game, but it seems like it would be easy to house rule if thats what you wanted.

[@CantRIP9389]

Not gonna lie, no stats/ability scores is challenging to my infantile clinging onto legacy habits. I haven't fully processed that transition yet. Part of me sees how stats in BRP are a bit awkward and not neatly sitting in my conceptualization. That problem is indeed an opportunity to consider something entirely outside of that box. Wanting to GM that online for strangers kind of brings up a bit of panic, though. The homebrewer in me is already considering how these various skills could be used in synergy. Binds/Strands adding a mystical component to a Perform or Inspire, for an example. Body Magic with Healing Lore or Melee. Yes, I am that preemptive gamer that reads ahead before even trying to understand the first few pages.

[@ronniabati]

I would change Protocol to Etiquette. Also, in your “Trust” example, why should the character’s trust increase or decrease based on dice rolls? Shouldn’t it change based on the outcome of the situation? Basically, if the character trusts another, but then get betrayed, then that character’s trust would decrease.

[@aydentisdale4116]

how does TBE handle nonlethal damage from hand to hand combat or other sources? is it tracked the same as wounds or is it measured by fatigue?

[@stochasticagency]

In the loss of reach, a purely narrative distinction or mechanical in the same vein as Circumvent Shield?

[@JakubWojtowitz]

Are skills connected with each other? For Example having high value of Melee: Medium other Melee skills should have more points, high value of Athletics should influence Endurance.

[@astrolama-p3o]

I would do that in character creation process but not after that. Otherwise these skills could be just one.

[@MagnificentDevil]

I imagine this would happen through culture and profession choices in character creation.

[@joerijean2240]

Is there a Brawling/Martial arts skill for Wresteling and unarmed strikes

[@MeMyselfandDieRPG]

Yes, Might.

[@alderaancrumbs6260]

Do infected wounds need to be tracked individually, or once infected is that all that’s needed? If the former, will a box be added to each wound line to track that?

[@Kalosj]

Magic seems pretty much ars magica techs and forms :)

[@SNWWRNNG]

It's not a big issue unless you roll on Personality a lot, but criticals on Personality rolls shifting the balance towards the result permanently has weird long-term implications. Statistically, all characters will become more one-sided in their Personality at an increasingly fast pace, unless there's other ways to influence the stats (like what consequences acting Trusting or Suspicious had for the character in the story). If I start with 1-80% Trusting vs 81-100% Suspicious, most criticals will occur in Trusting's range statistically. I'll end up with 90% Trusting which skews the odds even more, meaning that I'll end up moving from 90% to 100% in less time than it took to go from 80% to 90%. And having a character who's already very Trusting become even more so seems like the less interesting direction to go in, generally.

[@MagnificentDevil]

Considering it is both an optional rule and even then is only used when the player is genuinely unsure how the PC would react, it is unlikely to matter much, as you can always just decide how the PC reacts through roleplay.

[@SNWWRNNG]

​@@MagnificentDevil I agree. But if the justification that comes to mind for a rule is that it's probably not going to matter much, it might be that the rule is not worth the printed and mental space it requires. But I can't make any kind of firm judgment without playing the game.

[@Catninjas]

What skill is used during a hand to hand combat?

[@rikwilliams6352]

Apologies if this has already been addressed... How does the system lend itself to solo play? with or with out a GM emulator?

[@LihimSidhe]

The most interesting thing about this game is that it can so liberally borrow from Ars Magica and Mage: The Ascension and not get sued. Broken Empires has become the canary in the coal mine for the rest of the ttrpg world to borrow from some of the best magic systems ever printed. The next most interesting thing is the social mechanics. For that alone I’ll support Broken Empires. I don’t like the attributeless/skill only representation of characters though. Not even one bit. ESP for something that skews towards the simulation side of the spectrum.

[@GeneralBonobo]

Systems seems interesting, but I always find it really strange when these systems set dodge to only be against ranged attacks, when I think it's much less believable and sensical to be able to dodge bullets, arrows, and bolts than some one throwing a punch at you.

[@MeMyselfandDieRPG]

You can dodge any attack.

[@GeneralBonobo]

@@MeMyselfandDieRPG Oh okay I think I completely misunderstood what you said watching it back again, my bad

[@Kalosj]

Great to find a system that drops attributes/stats - very bored of the attribute + skill setup - backed :)

[@risusrules]

This looks pretty epic. Some thoughts on the character sheet as you run through it: 1) Personality. I would rather have it have something like: ____ % ____ for values on both sides. If I can't tell just looking at a Character Sheet how it works it throws me. No distinction on what the %, as is, applies to (which side). I read left to right, so I'd have thought it was for the 'negative' side. 2) Skills. "Locks & Traps" seems more granular than the other skills. Maybe "Mechanical"? Same with "Sleight of Hand". Maybe "Deft"?

[@MagnificentDevil]

Why do you need the percent on both sides? It is an over/under roll. If it is under or equal, it is the left trait, if over it is the right trait. Adding a second percentile is superfulous.

[@ballelort87]

Well, aktwually, skills are also stats - stats are just you numerical statistics 💁‍♂️ any number on your sheet is a stat, really.

[@vintagezebra5527]

Seems silly to waste word count on “stats” if they don’t actually do that much. The skills already account for the traits that stats define.

[@rhagvenalt]

I'm not crazy about the lack of stats... I love the skill based design, my favorite TTRPG is old school Deadlands which was loaded with cool skills, but in your example, Strength gets replaced by the Melee: Might skill. Ok, so every strength based character has to wield "Might" category weapons? Or fight with the "Might" combat style? Whatever the skill use is primarily for. Seems a little bit pigeon hole-y. So I thought "Well, I could just use something like Athletics instead for my campaign," but a Ranger or Thief or Monk-like character can be very athletic and not strength based at all, yet have an equal chance of succeeding at a strength based activity as the Barbarian or Fighter because it's the same skill. Delta Green has a REALLY basic stat system and I think something like that would be more than enough to cover the minutia of "Alright, there isn't an EXACT skill for this, but it would be using this stat" and even translates from random rolled 4d6 stats into percentile chance, which I thought was really easy to understand and generate.

[@skrzynkapanamarcina]

Good but too complicated for me

[@shacharashkenazi6910]

I see some common skills that are missing, such as "disguise", "forgery" and "handle animal". Would i be correct in assuming that disguise and forgery would use the deceive social skill and handle animal use the survival skill?

[@astrolama-p3o]

I think that "disguise" and "forgery" could be just "craft:practical" and "handle animal" could be "naturewise"

[@shacharashkenazi6910]

That makes sense. So creating the disguise is craft: practical but trying to convince someone you are the person you are disguised as will be decive.. perhaps if you roll well on crafting the disguise you can get bonus SLs on relevant decive rolls

[@astrolama-p3o]

@@shacharashkenazi6910 yes, and also now when I think about it again, "sleight of hand" may be more appropriate for "forging" stuff

[@MagnificentDevil]

​@@astrolama-p3oIt would depend on what you're forging. Forging legal documents may be slight of hand, but forging a valuable painting would be craft: art. Context matters to determine the skill used.

[@Nezarus0]

@@astrolama-p3o slight of hand is literally what magicians do: make coins appear and dissapear. It also would cover pickpocketing. This skill should have nothing to do forgery. Really, forgery would be a scribe skill and if we assume similar medieval analogues that would be craft: art. You need to know how to match inks, do fine caligraphy, deal with carving or making a false seal for the wax.

[@Lord-Bubyan]

I think every RPG should include some kind of stats to quickly visualize the characters. It can be something simple with just 3, like Vigor, Mind, and Spirit (similar to The One Ring). If you don't want them to be the central focus of the characters, they can be used for tests where the characters lack proficiency or for saving throws.

[@jeffwhittingham5314]

Looks great. Not sure if it's too late to make suggestions on rules changes/ideas - and what I have in mind is a bit of a rework - but I think it's something you should at least consider. Here's my suggestion: Move away from turn based combat and instead use a second based system. I know it sounds like it adds a bunch of complexity to do this and will be just too much granularity for sim-lite, but I promise you it doesn't and it's not. It's clean in practice and it actually solves a lot of gamey problems with turns (specifically, the unrealistic way each participant does 6 seconds worth of stuff while everyone else is literally frozen in place - nothing about that is realistic and it creates dissonant scenarios in play). Take the classic standoff between two groups just out of melee range of each other. In the typical turn based game, the group that wins initiative can move and use their action to move again , engaging the enemy. But doing that gives up the initiative, since the other group acting second now no longer needs to move and can simply just attack first. So, if you want to keep the initiative, you can't move forward and instead have to wait for you opponent to move to you. Not saying this isn't tactical - it is - it's just unrealistic. How this should work is the two groups of participants simply engage each other in combat in a clash. Who acts first is largely decided by the conditions of the fight (high ground, what weapons are being used, is one side mounted, etc). So this concept (second based combat) comes from Hackmaster (maybe another game did it first tbf, I just know it from Hackmaster). The idea is that all actions take a certain number of seconds - you declare an action and then it completes after that amount of time. Your initiative roll is the second on which you can first declare an action. If someone does something to you before your initiative (like attack you), you are surprised and cannot react to it. There are no special surprise rules - it's all a natural consequence of initiative. Seconds are counted up from 1. If you act on 4, then when the count gets to 4 you declare your action - lets say you want to engage and attack a target. That will take 5 seconds to engage let's say (based on distance to the target). Once engaged you can attack. So your next action will be on second 9 in this case (adjusted for reach of weapon - see below). Everything is adjusted based on events happening in real time. If the target you are charging is also charging you, you won't clash on 9 you will clash earlier. This is easy to see and adjust for on the fly as the action unfolds. Weapons have speeds. Smaller weapons are faster. They attack more frequently but do less damage (generally). Big weapons are slower but hit harder. Big weapons also generally have a reach advantage. When two targets engage - assuming this happens after each of their initiatives - the longer weapon attacks first with the shorter weapon attacking on the next second after engagement. In the example above, if you had the longer weapon (halberd against a sword), you would attack on second 9 and your opponent on second 10. Should the reach advantage be reversed, so would the attack order. Two weapons with equal reach attack together. Swings are then exchanged based on weapon speed in prolonged conflicts. Sword might be 7 seconds and Halberd say 9 seconds. So the sword user would potentially get two attacks in between the first and second swing of the halberd (but that halberd hits for a lot more, so it works out). This is the most elegant solution I've seen for handling different weapon types/sizes. Again, on paper, second based play sounds way more complicated than just using turn orders, but it's really not. You always know what second your next action happens (no different than tracking turn order). And because there is no turn order, you can change your mind at any moment - this keeps players engaged. Say you are planning on charging a group of enemies but halfway to them they get killed by a hail of arrows. No problem, on that very second you simply declare a new action - different target or whatever - calculate how long it will take to complete and move on your merry way. Second based combat is organic - it flows so nicely. Everyone is always paying attention too because as things change everyone can (and usually has to) adjust what they are doing. Having personally experienced second based combat, I always struggle going back to turn based. The game play is just so much less dynamic using turns.

[@bobr4024]

Trevor, you MUST include base stats. A good example for stats is neurosurgeon Ben Carson “Gifted Hands”. His high intelligence and superior manual dexterity affected his ability to do things as a neurosurgeon no one else could. Also, if for some reason a base stat is modified it would affect all skills associated with it permanently or temporarily. In my opinion, it just gives me the heart of the character and why their skills are as they are. By the way, I joined the kickstarter and I’m getting your game.

[@JainaSoloB312]

Uh, I think that'd just be Sleight of Hand, and Heal lore. Trevor is not going to add base stats, that's a very core part of his vision for this game. Also, I dunno why you had to make it political😅 Could have just said a neurosurgeon

[@bobr4024]

Please make a “printer friendly“ version. Just outlines with no colors. Some of these colors will translate to the same shade of gray on a monochrome printer. Also, you may want to make the male fighter genderless or have a female version. Just saying… I don’t care.

[@timparks9833]

This all looks great. If you care for any criticism, the only one I’d give is that I don’t like having seduce as a skill. If it’s used at all, it would be extremely niche, and it could always be replaced by any other social skill depending on the situation. I’m going to just cross it off the list when I get the game anyways, but I wouldn’t even want to take this game to a convention or something and have players even see that it’s on the sheet. 99% of games it will never be used, or only used like once, but that 1% playing with the creepy dude who turns RPG’s into creepy fantasies where they think it’s funny to have sex with everyone and everything in the game, are going to ruin games because the game would seem like it encourages it since it’s a skill that can be rolled.

[@RebelChum]

Play with more mature people then...problem solved.

[@MagnificentDevil]

Don't play RPGs with creepy people. If someone is a creep, no amount of rule changes will stop them from being a creep. Play with well-adjusted normal people and it will never be a problem.

[@primusinterpares5767]

Seduction is something that basically never shows up in my games. It's a strangely specific skill

[@joeg451]

IMO it would be better to call it "charm" which currently isn't well represented. More generic schmoozing rather than a specifically sexual skill

[@MagnificentDevil]

​@joeg451 Charm would be Persuade. Seduce isn't the same thing, it is the ability to offer someone something they desire (not just sex, any vice is seduction).

[@bobr4024]

I like so much of what you’re doing here, but I don’t like the abstract wealth. I never did like that in any game. Like you said it doesn’t seem to go with the simulation motif. In a fantasy game so much of what you want from success is treasure and a big bottomless sack of gold pieces! Also, your description of the wealth system you were developing is more like REPUTATION. IMO People who play Fantasy Games LIKE counting their gold pieces.😊

[@JakubWojtowitz]

I'm not a big fan of mixing different weapons from different ages in a fantasy world. I rather prefer abstract names of weapons, like for example Orcish Blade, Imperial Sword, Inquisitor Hammer, Dwarvish Axe.

[@astrolama-p3o]

I like the way it would expand the setting with a little cultural details.

[@JakubWojtowitz]

Rapier is a heavy onehanded long cut&thrust sword, it's not as fast as people think, they often mistake it with Smallsword, which is light, short and very nimble and quick. Veil definitely fights with a Smallsword not with a Rapier.

[@Funsopolis]

And just to make things confusing, smallswords were also called rapiers.

[@JakubWojtowitz]

@@Funsopolis and rapiers were called swords ;)

[@MagnificentDevil]

The epee would like a word..

[@Nezarus0]

Hey can I pile in and also point out that rapiers are not at all 'good for disarming'? I don't know why this persists with HEMA being so popular. Disarming is almost always some sort of grapping or taking advantage of an entanglement.

[@MrDigitsu]

THANK YOU for not adding a pronouns field in the sheet. I’m sort of getting sick of seeing it in all these new games.

[@primusinterpares5767]

So true

[@MagnificentDevil]

I agree, I am so tired of the radical left language police infesting every single thing.

[@RangerJackWalker]

Why does it bother you so much?

[@_midinette_]

@@RangerJackWalker noooo, let them, the image it paints of nerds sitting in their basement getting mad at the mere thought of, and putting whiteout over, a text field on a character sheet for a game 5000 people own because they think its saving western civilization or something is absolutely hilarious

[@trollsmyth]

I'm trying to decide if I like having Deceive, Intimidate, Inspire, and Seduce, or if I'd be happier just calling all of that Persuade. I'll probably just have to play with it to see what works for particular genres I'm playing.

[@astrolama-p3o]

From my experience it makes the social interactions more subtle and diverse

[@SkittleBombs]

Ironsworn calls it compel and there are 5 approaches based on the core stats . Each has ~3 examples of how to compel someone using one of the 5 approaches . Meaning it could be broken down int 15 “skills”. He’s going for medium level detail here. Where persuade would be low level details

[@MagnificentDevil]

Having different social skills is vital to the roleplaying first approach Trevor has described, where the words the PC speaks matters to informing which skill they are using. If you're good at intimidation but bad at inspire, and you give a rousinh speech, you'd be at a disadvantage over if you tried to put fear in them. This means you have to think about the words you speak which gives better and more nuanced roleplay.

[@christopherkrueger5948]

*Sigh* and so it begins… Trevor if you’re going to replace Race, I’d suggest “Species” which is the technically correct term, or “Lineage” which gets the jobs done. One game did “Lineage/Heritage” to replace Race/Culture. Kind of clever I thought. Drop Sex, Gender, whatever. Let people handle that themselves in the manner they prefer.

[@MagnificentDevil]

The Radical Left Language Police just HAVE to stick their nose in everything.

[@Valkenvr]

@@christopherkrueger5948 How about NO!

[@christopherkrueger5948]

@@Valkenvr If he wants to change anything. If not, that’s fine too.

[@christopherkrueger5948]

@MrDigitSu Let’s keep it on point, the Gaming Culture War doesn’t need another beachhead. Let’s get one game out without the bloodletting.

[@MagnificentDevil]

Why aren't you calling out the multiple radical leftists making comments trying to change the character sheet to reflect their obsession with race and gender instead of scolding the one guy who is happy they haven't already imposed their weird religion on it?

[@MaidofBoats]

Character sheet is looking good! As long as the skill list is sufficiently broad, I don't think lacking attributes is an issue at all. Just going to echo what I've seen in the backer comments and here: I know they are "old school" terms, but I would suggest replacing sex with gender, and race with another term, like species, ancestry, etc. The former because a character's gender is going to be more commonly relevant than their sex, and is just generally a more inclusive term. The latter because "race" has a lot of unnecessary baggage, and, even if you're trying to be more accurate or pedantic, "species" is the more accurate word, anyway. They're small things, but there is a reason I've been calling it species for most of my GMing career - even if that reason is mostly due to pedantry.

[@vast3394]

why have sex but not gender? might as well not include that distinction on the sheet

[@tinymutantsquid]

it's fanstasy, not absurdist

[@vast3394]

@@tinymutantsquid Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself! It's fantasy, not absurdist, so why limit characters with rigid boxes like ‘sex’ alone? If we’re going to include it, why not add ‘gender’ too-or maybe leave them both out entirely? Fantasy’s supposed to free us from those constraints!

[@tinymutantsquid]

@vast3394 🌽

[@vast3394]

@@tinymutantsquid 💋

[@manderse12]

Thanks for sharing, Trevor. One thing that I immediately flagged as perhaps needing attention for your BE game design was the idea of "Race." Personally, I think it's long overdue that we retire this concept, as the real-world baggage that the term evokes is unsavory and distracting from gameplay. "Race," traditionally, has had a lot of racist implications; and the history of the term is only avoided when players and GMs are acting in bad faith. ...BTW: I also find the "Oh, you're just being 'woke'" discourse about such reactions as beyond mind-numbing. "Woke" is a non-starter term whose typical use is to shut down dialogue; it is usually also a thin veneer for an otherwise ugly unwillingness to confront historical realities that we all need to learn how to deal with (hopefully in a gracious way). Labeling people as "woke" or as "social justice warriors" or whatever to avoid thinking about the idea strikes me as dull, tedious, and cowardly. One might say that my opinion here is some kind of PC language policing that should be left behind when joining a TTRPG. However, this too seems like a lazy sidestepping of our shared responsibility to think critically about the words we use. Consider how a Native American or Black person--especially in Canada or the U.S. with those countries' horrid history of racialized identities--might feel when they saddle up to join a BE game, and one of their first experiences in creating a character involves having to shoehorn their character concept into a "Race" box. It seems like a needless turnoff to insist that "Race is just a recognition of biological differences, no more!" These reactions assume that what I'm trying to do here is to "Intimidate" (to use a BE skill term); rather, I'm actually appealing to your moral imagination by way of "Persuade." 🤨 Maybe consider what other TTRPGs are doing by using terms like "Ancestry" or "Species"? I know that you are trying to differentiate "Culture" influences from "Race," so words like "Heritage" or "Clan" probably won't work. Yes, there are unavoidable biological realities to consider when designing a character, and your game can and perhaps should emphasize those. On the other hand, why not leave behind all the negative baggage of "Race" by designing a creative way to recognize those factors? Just a thought. Cheers. Looking forward to playing BE soon.

[@tinymutantsquid]

too woke, didn't read