Teaching Lily Orchard About Nuance in Writing

[@Lobomaru02]

"You don't have to be evil or insane to do horrible things to other people. You just have to believe you're right." - Yoko Taro

[@KaiserShounen]

Based quote from Taro

[@leithaziz2716]

For context, the inspiration for Yoko Taro making some of his games is that he experienced the events of 9/11 from afar and wanted to understand why people would do horrible acts in the name of something good. Yoko Taro actually often talks in interviews about real world disasters that occur currently and struggles to deal with feeling that he can't do anything about it. It's rather sad in a very human manner.

[@zeogold]

At the risk of sounding like Playmaker, allow me to point out three things about Lily Orchard. 1. Lily Orchard is a left wing zealot with delusions of grandeur. Which is why she sees her personal opinion as the same thing as objective fact, and why her way of doing things is the best way to do them, and why she sees moderates as people who don't want to change things for better out of fear of rocking the boat, and sees nuance as childish. 2. Lily thinks that just because she puts all the stuff she's really into in her stories (IYKYK) that all writers do the same thing. 3. Lily is sees all things as a means to an end including art and relationships. Those three things are why Lily not only doesn't like any character with depth especially villains, but that she is a villain herself.

[@kerwinbrown4180]

Still evil.

[@alexey635able]

I remember Yoko was applying this quote when writing the first Nier

[@ajthewildwolf]

Lily hates nuanced villains because they represent the biggest truth she doesn't want to face. That trauma doesn't automatically absolve you of guilt. Lily has done a ton of the worst things imaginable to innocent people and she uses her trauma to dodge responsibility in her own head. She hates that people make these traumatized characters and then treat them like villains because they do bad things. Lily doesn't want to admit she's done anything wrong, even when it comes to the tiniest things. It's probably why she hasn't matured at all since she was 14. You cannot self improve if you don't admit you have a problem.

[@iain9757]

Incredible comment!!!

[@mynameisambertoo7379]

Lily doesn't like nuanced villains because she isn't one. She's just evil.

[@ajthewildwolf]

@@mynameisambertoo7379 Damn. Shots fired

[@noodleh945]

Lily feels like the embodiment of media literacy is dead.

[@multilad816]

Is Critikal Drinker and Turf Nation a part of this media literacy is dead mindset

[@hype5456]

Hardly ​@@multilad816

[@kostajovanovic3711]

​@@multilad816always

[@RedSunUnderParadise]

​@@multilad816 Lily is CritDrunk but for us leftists.

[@leithaziz2716]

Can someone explain what Media literacy means? Apologies.

[@sharkjumpingwalrus6744]

Lily literally excusing magneto becomes even worse when you realize she dismissed Hunter from the owl house as an "angry white boy", a victim of abuse who was desperate to appease said abuser because not doing so would mean death. She intentionally downplays his story by claiming people have rebelled against Belos before, intentionally leaving out the fact that they were either killed, or turned to stone for it.

[@Castersvarog]

Similarly she does the same thing with N, a character famous for being popular and having alot of nuance to his character and growth. How fitting that the woman infamous for being an abuser hates the character who eventually escaped an abusive situation. But she loves Lillie who also goes through something similar to N

[@mittag983]

​@@CastersvarogBecause Lillie has basically no flaws and has a similar name.

[@Ballslover18]

@@mittag983 it's because Lily is sexist as hell lmao. She did the same shit to Gladion and Arven.

[@davidegaruti2582]

​@@Castersvarogok that is mind numming : Lillie and N are basically the same caracter , Exept that N is more philosophically driven while lillie just wants and out ... Yet N is a pretentius debate bro , While lillie should be the main caracter ... Also her complaint of N having a ton of dialogue is dwarfed by the fact lillie also has a lot of dialogue , but she just points it out at the beginning ...

[@Ballslover18]

@@davidegaruti2582 she complains about Lillie having a lot of dialogue too. Which is funny because she's playing an jrpg which are known for being very wordy...

[@skyslasher2297]

18:01 She also clearly doesn't actually reads X-Men comics because while they do want to establish peace between mutants and humans they also don't take the humans crap lying down. Not even just fighting hate mobs and sentinels but also playing the political game to protect the rights and liberties of mutant kind that are always at risk of being taken away. Other times creating safe havens for mutants to go and be themselves without fear of being oppressed.

[@rimfire8217]

Which is exactly what the real Civil Rights Movement did.

[@kap1618]

And If you go check out those comics*, you'll find Magento actually works with the X Men more than ever. Heck, sometimes Magneto does come up with peaceful solutions, but his more violent followers ruin it.

[@ionasappy2732]

tbh based on what people say on the internet, i think people don't really read X-Men comics, they just base their ideas on them on headcanons and crap the movies / shows spout.

[@princekyle4132]

If I wanted to start reading said comics… where would I start? 0-0

[@skyslasher2297]

@@princekyle4132 my only recommendation is just pick a series that interests you and start reading. If you’re confused google it.

[@kingbash6466]

I've been pretty vocal on how concerning it is that a lot of people glorify Magneto as a champion of the oppressed while ignoring that the whole point of his character is that he turns into the very thing he hates, but even they understand that he's a character with a ton of layers to peel. The fact that Lily doesn't understand this is somehow both impressive and unsurprising.

[@jacksonschoon-lz9tw]

He literally says he became like the Nazis who murdered his family after he nearly murders Jewish X-Men member Kitty Pryde for no good reason

[@ariwl1]

@@jacksonschoon-lz9tw Even worse he was so one-track-minded while he did it he didn't realize until after that she was very obviously a kid.

[@jacksonschoon-lz9tw]

@@ariwl1 he also reveals the fact that he is a holocaust survivor to Storm

[@thunderflare59]

It's hilarious that she hates Nazis yet makes all the irrational mistakes they made to lead them were they ended up.

[@Air_Serpent]

It always confused me as someone who was into X-Men for a while. Especially when Magneto isn't even the biggest x-men villain, just the most iconic one. Ironically Magneto becomes a good person when he leads the X-Men and becomes kind to humans.

[@Jack-sy8mr]

“His big moment of turning to evil is...killing a nazi” Did Lily skip the part just before that where he’s like “Hey I totally agree with your mutant-nazi ‘kill all humans’ stuff, I only hate you personality for killing my mom”? Or the part after where he tried to murder a fleet of people, tried to murder Moira, then took Shaw’s evil henchmen to go do a bunch of murder and terrorism?

[@dubuyajay9964]

Oh...and Magnus was a survivor of the H010caust internment camps? Really, the modern term people throw around to villainize a person you don't like-a "Yahtzee." And Magnus goes "teh bad" because he offed one after months or years of suffering in an internment camp. You can't make this stuff up. #MagnetoWasRIGHT!

[@SpikeJet2736]

I'm sure she didn't actually bother to watch the movie, just look for clips to prove her point and called it a day. We're talking about the same moron who thinks John McClane in Die Hard 1 counts as a Gary Stew

[@Grf1556]

Pretty sure Lily didn't watch the movie and just looked at small clips on KZbin, or didn’t do any research on Magneto at all.

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

Not to mention, the arc of that movie was him wanting revenge on SS (what an apt name). Remember the famous "Peace was never an option" line? It proceeds the line "Killing Shaw will not bring you peace". It's basically his admittance that he knows that he's not looking for catharsis, but wants to kill him anyway for the sake of it. But more importantly, what signifies the turn to evil is how he takes the viewpoint of SS whilst also taking his helmet and making a very similar "Join me!" speech that SS made to the other mutants. Not to mention, using the same "I'm gonna count to ten" saying, only here obviously SS is even more helpless than Erik was. The movie makes it blatantly clear that this is the moment that he's started taking the wrong lesson from his life's enemy, it's not just as simple as "he kills someone, now he's evil"

[@Grf1556]

@@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168 that’s too much for Lily unfortunately, who only engages with art on a surface level and doesn’t understand metaphors or symbolism. Your post was brilliant btw, VERY good!

[@slimer44producciones3]

Honestly the "revolutionary becomes what he choose to destroy" is one of my favorite tropes in fiction and one of the reasons why I like Magneto as an antagonist, an while yes he has a point in that humanity sucks for creating things made for hunting mutants (aka. Sentinels) you can't tell me that the world would be better under his regime, he would just invert the roles with humans being the oppresed group and mutants being the oppresors (hello house of M) It's just funny and tragic to me when bad guys start like "I hate nazis" and end up acting like nazis

[@joshridinger3407]

it's also extremely realistic. it's how most revolutions go.

[@dubuyajay9964]

90's Mags was best Mags.

[@dugonman8360]

It's also that magneto doesn't step back and understand that, while Humans being hostile to Mutants is shitty, they do have a legit reason to be terrified of you. It's not like mutants are just another ethnicity or nationality or something, these are beings who could legit level cities and kill millions if they wanted to. You have the right to be afraid of that.

[@GaryNac]

@slimer44producciones3 "Can't tell me that the world would be better under his regime" Unless of course you count better for mutants at the expense of humans as being better.

[@slimer44producciones3]

@@GaryNac true But still not an overall better system than the current one

[@leavemealone802]

Oh honey... you can't teach Lily things... *whispers" she is not very smart

[@C4MG1RL]

Lily's opinions on what counts as a villain gives context to her take on sympathetic villains. She doesn't believe that a victim can become as bad or worse than their abuser and she believes that an oppressed group fighting for their freedom are inherently good no matter what means they take to achieve it. Hence the Dr. Doom comment. If you wrote a story where the bad guys are a bunch of slaves that are fighting for their freedom but the means that they go about it is a complete genocide of the oppressing race, she doesn't see them as villains. If you wrote that the rebellion that rose to fight the fascist are turning fascist, then it's a toss up between if she'd say it's bad writing because that would never happen (it would and has) or she'd defend it because they can do no wrong in her mind. Likewise, if she's already deemed someone is evil but then you reveal that it isn't so black and white, she gets mad about it and calls it bad writing. Because now you're challenging her world view.

[@EE-iv5ej]

"I want fiction/media that only perpetuates my narrative."

[@avivastudios2311]

​@@EE-iv5ej Which doesn't make sense at all. Especially if you're a child and you don't even have a worldview let alone a worldview that anyone should be forced to agree with. Lily Orchard has that childish worldview and no writer should be forced to bend to her standards. We have better standards.

[@inky5574]

@@C4MG1RL So is that why she hates Attack on Titan? Because Eren is portrayed as the bad guy for committing genocide on people who wanted him and his people dead but he also brings in other countries who had nothing to do with Paradis subjugation?

[@williammorahan4907]

@@EE-iv5ejCosmoshidan in a nutshell.

[@micromints1735]

"She doesn't believe that a victim can become as bad or worse than their abuser" This is probably why she refuses to take responsibility for her actions in real life. I imagine when she does find a narrative example of it that she happens to like, she'll twist it into justifying her own whims. Simon Laurent from Infinity Train is an abuse victim who became worse than anyone who ever hurt him. This is just objectively the case, but I imagine in Lily's mind since she likes that show she'd twist it so that he was actually never abused and he's just a whiny white boy.

[@kylejones8289]

Something worth pointing out: the writer who made Magneto a Holocaust survivor, Chris Claremont, was Jewish. I'm not saying that makes his work above criticism, but she might consider that maybe a Jewish writer born in Europe and probably had relatives who died in the Holocaust, might be saying something more nuanced than "Holocaust survivors bad?" That sometimes trauma can drive people to do horrible things? That sometimes activists can do horrible things that are actually counterproductive for the cause they support? Nope. It has to be the most surface level, basic reading humanly possible that ignores basic things that happen in the story.

[@BlisaBLisa]

he also served in ww2 😭 lily shut uppppppp

[@kylejones8289]

@@BlisaBLisa Claremont did not. He was born in 1950, so that would have been mathematically impossible. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, who created Magneto, did serve in World War 2, so that might have been who you were thinking of.

[@senhor_errante]

claremont also made kitty pryde, a jewish girl that disagrees with magneto. kitty also lived in a holocaust like event in an alternate timeline (days of future past), and she still sided with the xmen, cause she is not an asshole like magneto. another thing that lily forgot to mention (or maybe she just didnt knew, cause shes just shit talking about a franchise that she clearly has little to no knowledge about) is that magneto's sympathetic traits are not villanized, but in fact are his redeemable qualities. charles tries to take eric to the good side and show him other ways to fight for the mutant cause, so this saying that the xmen are defenders of the status quo is so fucking dumb

[@kylejones8289]

@@senhor_errante Very much so. The X-Men have used violence against the status quo when they have thought it was necessary. Fighting against Steven Lang's Sentinels (which unlike the previous Sentinels, were a government project), infiltrated the Pentagon to wipe all digital records of the X-Men, fought back against Reverend William Stryker and his Church of Humanity when they tried to do a genocide against mutants, fought against Freedom Force when they tried to enforce the Mutant Registration Act, and helped overthrow a nation's government (Genosha) because they were using mutants as slave labor. The difference between the X-Men and Magneto is that the X-Men view violence as a last resort, and that they will not use it against innocents, only those actively oppressing mutants, and even then as a last resort. They're not going to threaten or hurt Senator Kelly even if he is passing anti-mutant laws because they know that is not going to solve the problem, and is likely going to make mutants look bad.

[@fz3043]

I would hate to see her take on the Isreali-Palestinian conflict.

[@WeakFreak]

"If you don't agree with me, you're wrong!" "If you find evidence to prove me wrong, you're a f*cking moron!" "if you don't agree with me, then you're ignorant to the truth!" I think the only reason Lily has such a strange mindset about villain characters is because she is one herself, and she only defend the ones that share the same mindset as herself.

[@NintendoMeister2260]

Whenever she gets comments proving her wrong she always deletes them unless she thinks she can disprove them but most of the time she can’t even do that and it just makes her look stupid. EDIT: Stupider.

[@littlebabyman8494]

An IRL villain who thinks there is a cutoff for redemption tries to downplay atrocities committed by fictional characters under the guise of it being justified due to some “greater evil”… There’s a plot in portraying someone like her in a fictional setting who actually has power to cause mass change and is shown to be crazy due to more than her hyper analytic moral based mindset when it comes to something as low stakes as fiction made purely for entertainment.

[@Josue-mv2fo]

I thought you were writing The Narcissist Prayer for a moment there

[@mr.selyumor5402]

Lily’s view on what makes someone a villain is very telling.

[@daraghokane4236]

I'm guessing the lich a pure evil guy

[@cosmozone271]

In hindsight, I get WHY she likes them simplistic. She doesn't like to question whether something is wrong. She just wants to believe that it is without thought. In this case, everyone that doesn't agree with her is a "classic villain," evil, they just don't know it, and hey, they attack her anyway for her takes, so she's justified in perceiving them as "villains".

[@multilad816]

The first sign was hurting joshscorcer and that horrid My Little Pony fan fiction

[@theabsolutetrashman3708]

​@@multilad816Haven't heard that name in a while, what did she do to him ?

[@chrismoran501]

It also is one of those self-justifying things for her view of heroism. That is, she unambiguously views the idea that because something is evil, any action that might otherwise be judged as awful is justified if it is used against them. If evil is simple and uncomplicated, then her uncompromising mercilessness is easy to justify. Not so much when there is nuance. In short, nuance undermines her worldview, so she attacks it.

[@GravityFaiz]

The boom of people slamming Lily for her shit takes on media has been fun to witness, and also a reminder that Lily is indeed a monster that had hurt people.

[@gdassspar6nar]

Wait,her?I can clearly hear male voice.

[@Dixieladd]

​@@gdassspar6nar Lily's a trans woman

[@cosmicwooloo]

@@gdassspar6nar you can keep using “he”, the actions lily has done does not warrant respecting anything of them

[@gdassspar6nar]

@@cosmicwoolooSadly, it's not as bad as "we".Who calls himself like this?

[@tarvoc746]

@@cosmicwooloo That's not how respecting trans identities works. If you disregard the self-identification of _some_ trans people on the basis of "I don't like them, they've done awful things", you effectively hold the self-identification of _all_ trans people negotiable with yourself as the ultimate arbiter, that all trans people have to earn their status in your eyes. You can call out the person for the bad stuff they've done, but this is simply a line that shouldn't be crossed. It inadvertently harms all trans people, including the majority of them who've done nothing wrong.

[@Devilsblight86]

Anytime KZbin sends me a reaction on a Lily Orchard video (which is honestly rare since I don't go searching her up cause I don't like her), I can't help but say, "Ah fuck. What stupid shit did she say or do THIS time?" ...this is new.

[@rimfire8217]

Tragedy does not absolve you of moral responsibility.

[@heartnet40]

Lily's whole shtick about complex villains is a pretty bad facade for her just having a low-tolerance for media in general. She has gone on tirades recently about how bad Full Metal Alchemist is and when *finally* cornered for an answer her reasoning was...the villain did a completely 100% no beating around the bush evil thing that the story universally accepts as an attrocity. So even when the villain is as blatantly ink-blotch stained black in mortality Lily will find ways to put your work under intense scrutiny.

[@LordTyph]

Which villain, to note? And which FMA are we talking about? 2003 or Manga/Brotherhood?

[@ShadowWolfRising]

@@LordTyph I'm gonna guess Father and not Dante, as Dante at least had a very human reason for doing what she was.

[@Birthday888]

Wait... Was she expecting the shadow-y Illuminati-esque figure behind the Military Dictatorship, implied to have created the an entire kingdom and orchestrated several wars/genocides.... To have a humane reason for his actions? Like, does she think people wouldn't gleefully commit genocide if you dangled immortality or godhood in front of them? Cause certain people definitely would.

[@aegisScale]

She really doesn't seem to like to have big thinks about whatever she watches, nor is she open to challenging herself with media. She's always hated anime that isn't, like, Hamtaro (aka old kids anime, Hamtaro's just the most obvious example I could think of), so if anything that implicit hatred of anime is probably a bigger reason why she doesn't like FMA than whatever someone managed to wring out of her mouth. If Lily doesn't like you, she really doesn't need a reason to pick you apart--all she needs is deceptive editing and the first justification her worm-ridden brain can concoct.

[@heartnet40]

@@ShadowWolfRising No, I'm talking about Shou Tucker. The guy did an evil, the show treated him like the monster he was, the situation was taken 100% seriously, and he had lasting trauma and consequences thanks to his actions. Lily called it gratuitous and then said the show was stupid. Like many others have pointed out, FMA did something that she says she wants out of her media and she punished it for it. She really is that hypocritical.

[@LatterDayPup]

There’s something very disturbing about Lily refusing to address Magento’s open desire to genocide the entire human race.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

It's hard to talk about Magneto because he's just a badly written villain.

[@Somerandomjingleberry]

@@Alex_Barbosadepending on who’s writing him and when, anyway. Like practically every big legacy comic character, he has his moments while also having a lot of utter shit alongside them

[@fionn_mac_ribs]

@@Alex_BarbosaAre you directing that statement to any specific version of Magneto?

[@ClassicKrak83]

I'm with Magneto and all on killing all of humanity. But what happens to a child that is born from a mutant simply human? Oh wait. Do you sit back like Omni-man with a gun to the head for the next potentially 20 years?

[@EGV88]

She's against portraying Magneto as a villain because, if she were in his shoes, she'd do the same thing.

[@williammorahan4907]

She’d do a lot worse if she had any sort of power. And everything about her sense of moral absolutism is self serving and narcissistic.

[@littlebabyman8494]

@@williammorahan4907 We’re lucky she’s restrained to being a small scale “media analysis” channel on a platform as vast as this and not some big social activist.

[@williammorahan4907]

@@littlebabyman8494 Still, she *has* managed to do a lot of damage on young, impressionable nerds’ sense of media literacy and self worth with her platform. To say the very least……

[@RMDragon3]

I'm slightly terrified of her view of "there's no such thing as going too far as long as your cause is good". First of all, there absolutely is. If you don't keep that in mind, you can easily become worse than what you are fighting against. But more importantly, most people view their cause as good, whether you agree with them or not. Getting a bit political, I would say that terrorism is bad and we should try to stop it. However, genociding an entire population trying to achieve that is going way too far. Reality is nuanced, and the right answer is not always obvious or simple. That's also true for many good stories, and it's not a bad thing.

[@EE-iv5ej]

There's also the classic "We must stop terrorism, through mass surveillance and removal of personal freedom/privacy", seriously there's the old saying of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" not ring any bells to her? Or likely she intentionally discards it based on how she twists shit. Also this mindset is literally like Eren Yeager (or at least his cult Yeagerists believe in).

[@wren_.]

“I used terrorism to fight the terrorism”

[@Grf1556]

It's also hilarious that Lily is a big believer in "retributive justice", but if she was ever at the other end of the stick and someone wanted to invoke retributive justice on her (for all the people she's hurt in her personal life), she'd probably cry about how "unfair" that would be. Lily is just a sociopath who in her ideal world she would be able to hurt/kill anyone she wants without consequence.

[@Somerandomjingleberry]

@@Grf1556”well obviously the hurt that I caused can be excused because- b-because-… because it’s not the same!” “How?” “It should be obvious!” “If it’s so obvious why don’t ya just say it? Go ahead. Spell it out.” *she proceeds to not spell whatever it is out*

[@samlerf]

Palestine again, huh?

[@skootz524]

"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old woman?"

[@trip9845]

the same amout for eric cartman

[@Tacom4ster]

I remember Lily paradoxically criticizing and dissing Schafrilla Productions for wanting classic villains too, Lily just likes to be a contrarian just for the sake of being antagonistic

[@NintendoMeister2260]

She made a couple pot shots at KZbinrs in her Pokemon Retrospective. I think Lily is such a narcissist that she’s mad that she’s not the only KZbinr on the internet.

[@Tacom4ster]

@@NintendoMeister2260 Also she's a not a leftist, as pointing out in her Korra review dissing anarchism, Im not sure if she's a Tankie or just a very particular lib

[@NintendoMeister2260]

@@Tacom4ster She simplifies Zaheer’s motives to just “Anarchism. Which is dumb.” When his motives are more nuanced than that. He studied Guru Laghima’s teachings of achieving freedom and enlightenment so he thinks the best way to bring freedom to the world is to get rid of all leaders.

[@Tacom4ster]

@@NintendoMeister2260 Check out "Kay and Skittles" essays on Korra, those are better

[@Tacom4ster]

​@@NintendoMeister2260 Check out "Kay and Skittles" essays on Korra, those are real political analysis

[@toganium4175]

What Lily seems to miss is that Magneto is a lot more than a Malcolm X inspired guy who’s just a bit of a “violent boy.” He’s actively a mutant supremacist. I’m not even an X-Men fans, and yet I could tell you that.

[@Ophelia381]

Lily is probably an accelerationist. Accelerationists are looked down among activists because they don't realize that if you urge people to open violence, the first people who will suffer and die are the marginalized. But to an accelerationist, they're just seen as an "acceptable cost".

[@megamasher3]

Ooohh…so, like Magneto?😂

[@alvedonaren]

Actually accelerationist are when you actually promote the thing you're against even more in the belief that this will cause it to collapse faster. So an accelerationist communist would promote extreme free market capitalism as hard mercyless as possible, in the belief that this will accelerate the collapse of capitalism.

[@aegisScale]

@@megamasher3 Yeah pretty much💀

[@woodlefoof2]

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@elijahhayter3026]

@@megamasher3that would be an insult to magneto. I’d say more along the lines of Adam Taurus.

[@zachm5485]

Lily’s issue when it comes to media is that she thinks her opinions are objectively correct and is shared by most people. To her, not liking a troupe or show is the same as them being bad

[@sharplosion1]

The idea that the character who has one of their first defining lines be 'I always get my way' suddenly goes 'a step too far' when getting into a giant death robot to get their way is truly stunning.

[@Cityweaver]

Nooooo, you don't understand! All of the very real crimes she committed were only foreshadowed as rumors, so she clearly, especially in hindsight, ONLY went a step too far when she got a giant death robot! ... Especially since the logical implication would be that her previous consolidation of resources was a build-up so that she'd have the materials to build a giant death robot. XD

[@TheBowTizzle]

“The ends justify the means” is almost never a good justification for committing atrocities in the name of noble goals. Either she was never taught this, or she sees herself in these kinds of villains and refuses to learn these lessons as a result.

[@ultra6671]

Twilight Guardian: That's a nice argument, Lily. Why don't you back it up with a source? Lily: My source is that I made it the fuck up!

[@apophis7712]

Imagine a world, Twilight Free of cancel culture

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

​@@apophis7712 Where no-one can call me out for my outlandish claims! A world where I can say the n-word!

[@balsasjekloca9308]

​@@apophis7712Where no one can call me out for my outlandish claims

[@TheMongral]

Hearing how Lily views Magneto makes me wonder what she would think about Megatron from the transformers series. A character who, at a surface level, is incredibly basic and one who is very similar to Magneto in how he seeks to achieve his goal. On the surface he is a stereotypical war-obsessed character, but when you dig into it, you realize that he’s actually quite a complex character. He literally started out trying to achieve his goals peacefully, as at the start the Primes, the bots who held leadership positions, were largely corrupt (Yup, the “Good Guys” were actually villains at first). He wrote a manifesto, not calling for war, merely for change, a peaceful form of protest. The response? The primes attempted to have him assassinated during some routine maintenance. That set him off, believing that there could be no peaceful resolution as long as the corrupt leadership was still in place and thus kicked off the Autobot vs Decepticon war everyone knows about the series for. By the time humans enter the story, the war has gone on so long that Megatron has literally forgotten why he started it. He’s a warmonger, now solely because he’s been one so long that he can no longer see the path back to his goal (literally lost in the sauce), completely oblivious to the fact that his direct opponent, Optimus Prime, is the exact type of leader he wanted to be in charge all along. He eventually remembers his original motivation, and you know what happens? He immediately decides to become an Autobot. Yup. He joins the good guys. Why? Because he realized he had become the very thing he originally rose against. He then goes on to nearly sacrifice himself to save the galaxy… as an Autobot. He started as a good guy, became a villain, forgot why he became one, and then became a good guy when he remembered why, and proceeded to selflessly risk himself for others. He was never a bad guy, merely a good person pushed to the point that he felt evil was the only path to do good until he forgot he was a good person. If that kind of character is bad by Lily’s metrics, then I’ll take more “Bad” characters, please! This incredibly “simple” character ended up being a complex example of how people can become so obsessed with a goal that they lose sight of the goal in the first place, and how, given enough effort to achieve peace, to attempt to open a dialogue, one can eventually do so successfully (while they were opponents, Optimus pretty much always gave Megatron the choice of peace before war in conflicts). It can take time, and effort, but it’s doable even with the most ruthless of people. Megatron is also literally a direct counterpoint to her claim that someone has a hard cutoff on redemption, that after enough evil, you cannot redeem someone. This turnaround literally happens after millions of years of war! But I’m sure Lily would call him a bad character cuz “ermahgerd, war bad! Oppressed minorities bad!” Or one of her many other reductive opinions. Lily orchards inability to properly understand media is staggering. Edit: For Clarity, I am specifically referring to the version of Megatron used in the IDW Comics with this comment (Some versions of Megatron are quite simple, but this particular one is one of the most complex versions of the character).

[@griffinkimball2454]

Not fully disagreeing here, but I would like to point out that that is specifically IDW Megatron's story. Other Megatrons are much more classically pure evil. The biggest examples would be the original G1 Megatron and Prime Megatron. While Prime Megatron has the backstory, he seems much more to have used injustice as an excuse to be horrible rather than losing his way.

[@TheMongral]

@@griffinkimball2454 That’s totally fair. I mostly picked this specific version of Megs (IDW’s) as it is one that still has the warmongering aspect to the character, he still falls into the stereotype, but also shows many similarities to Magneto, a Good Man becoming a villain because evil seems to be the only path forward, a late stage redemption, etc. Megatron as a character has loads of different iterations, but if you showed Lily this particular one, she’d probably reduce him to some pathetic label like she always does. Basically, she’d probably look at IDW megs and call him bad just because G1 is more stereotypically just a bad guy, that kind of thing.

[@griffinkimball2454]

@@TheMongral No disagreement here, I mostly just commented because I felt like the fact it was IDW Megatron should have been specified in the first place

[@TheMongral]

@@griffinkimball2454 Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that originally. That's what I get for typing all that on my phone at work in a rush I suppose.

[@leithaziz2716]

Starscream in Transformers Armada is another tragic character who instead was controlled through abuse.

[@justinbowers2749]

I would also like to point out this…just because they are the rebels, doesn’t automatically mean they are the good guys or are in the right.

[@nuotatorre8741]

11:44 As someone who watched all of MLP. YES even MLP is too complicated for her. Oddly enough MLP has a very similar villan to Kindom Heart's villan, who very much acted on the same principals. Her name is Strlight Glimmder but she later got redeemed and, even if the redemption itself was a little rush, she over time became a fan favorite due to the effort she put in bettering herself. Lilly, ever the contrarian, however hated her to what most people agreed was an unjustified degree.

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

I really wish that her initial redemption was longer then a montage but I do really love season 6's expansion on that. She did that little redemption montage but still had a lot to learn. She would occasionally backslide into some villainous habits but she's still committed to being better. Her real redemption spanned all of season 6.

[@rsj2877]

​@@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816yeah, like what additions would you have to Starlight's initial Redemption? Like she would be at first be doing community services under heavy watch from the royal guards at first. (like she pledges to be better but considering her capabilities and its just being recent, precautions are taken at first) Then once she is let to be free it goes on.

[@Somerandomjingleberry]

As an outsider to MLP, I’ve never heard of this one. I had thought that FIM had had three main antagonists over several seasons with many episodes not really focusing on them (or on good vs evil conflicts in general, that not being the point of the show necessarily), those being Discord, that insect tribe, and Nightmare Moon. Is Glimmer a smaller antagonist, or is she also a bigger one but didn’t have as much cultural osmosis as the ones I mentioned learning about despite never seeing the show? Or is she the leader of the insect ponies or something? I really need to see this show one of these days

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

@@Somerandomjingleberry Starlight is the antagonist for the season 5 premiere and finale. Mlp has quite a few antagonists but it seems the ones that stick out the most for non-fans are season 1 and 2 villans. Look up Starlight's song "Our Town" and you'll get the idea of what was up with her.

[@redballoon9007]

I think her turning over a leaf was rushed. But her actual redemption lasted for at least a season or two. One thing that I love about Starlight’s redemption story was how realistic it was. Starlight didn’t just change overnight (*coughLikeSunsetShimmer*cough) She had moments of reverting back to her old mindset and she dwelled on her actions a lot. It wasn’t until much later in the show where she stopped blaming herself for her actions and completely moved forward as an individual.

[@lulu_TheWitchBoy]

lmao magneto just has a complicated history- it really depends on the writers whether he’s a villain or not. But continuity likes him being in the grey area like X-men 97, sometimes writers ignore that continuity.

[@twilightguardian]

Yeah it seems like no matter what if there's more than 20 years of history of a single comic book you're gonna get some wild stuff to deal with and flip a coin on separate or contradictory continuities.

[@creed8712]

@@twilightguardianinvincible had less than that and even it had to basically retcon it existed in the same reality as the savage dragon and Spawn

[@avivastudios2311]

Thank you for bringing up the bad protestors that cause harm. The fact that Lily is not aware of that shows she's not ready to discuss important things like this. Did you know people in ambulances sometimes die because of those protests. It's horrible. People are so disappointing.

[@justinbowers2749]

Indeed, I live in Oregon, I saw the CHAZ revolt unfold on the news, and yet despite all the violence, despite people within the zone essentially forcing people to buy products from certain shops, despite acting like full blown terrorists in open rebellion, the news constantly tried to get us to sympathize with them as “peaceful protesters. I was at a community college for three years, I saw actual peaceful protesters. They weren’t loud, they weren’t obnoxious, they didn’t have giant megaphones, they had placards, and when you asked what the deal was they would tell you in a respectful manner and if you disagreed, they were cool with it. I think the reason people like Lily, and even people unlike Lily, always paint rebels as good is because the USA was founded on a rebellion, and everyone likes the scrappy underdog. The trouble is, just because they are rebels or insurgents saying all the right words, that doesn’t mean they are necessarily in the right, after all, ISIS was a rebel group, and in the 20’s the Nazi’s were scrappy underdogs, can we honestly believe that they were in the right?

[@BlisaBLisa]

i feel like some ppl dont understand that the violence in the civil rights movement, or many other liberation movments, was strategic and not just retributive. a lot of the violence that was utilized during the civil rights movement was the violence against black activists who would do something like sit in a whites-only diner, expecting to be attacked for it, and making sure it got filmed when they were. like ppl trained to be able to put themselves in these situations without fighting back just taking the violence and letting the footage speak for itself. the black panthers utilized threat of violence by attending protests and rallies visibly armed to deter police from attacking black protesters.

[@MalcolmAlexander-q3q]

I think the thing about lily is that she overcompensates. It is completely reasonable to point out that there is a moral difference between the oppressed using violence to secure their freedoms and oppressors using violent force to preserve their power. Indeed most movements require disruption or harm to actually push equality forwards, be it union workers striking or rioting for better wages or suffragettes using disruptive tactics to secure the vote. HOWEVER, the mistake Lily makes is she inverts the dynamic, she assumes that those using violence against their oppresors are inherently good, that said use of violence can't be flawed. This is also stupid. Yeah, violence is an important method of disruption for many resistance movements however it also harms the innocent and the vulnerable as well as enabling people to misuse said violence for their own self interest.

[@AN474-e1o]

Her screed about how oppressed people have the right to do terrorism to their oppressors is ironic and disturbing. I read a book called Parallel Journeys which was written by a Holocaust survivor and a former Hitler Youth member about their respective experiences. The former Hitler Youth member was talking about Kristallnacht and how he asked his mom why their Jewish neighbors had to be taken away, she said something to the effect of: "we can't let them exploit us anymore". He talked about being taught that if they didn't do something drastic the Jewish-Bolsheviks were going to enslave them and how The Allies had subjugated them with the Treaty of Versailles. They saw themselves as victims who were under attack from all sides, just like Lily sees herself.

[@aegisScale]

Yeah. For as much as she dislikes the right, she always covets their extremists' iron boot without fully realizing why they wear it in the first place. Only difference between her and a Nazi is the group of people she hates, really . . .

[@thegarunixking1101]

I'm genuinely curious what Lily thinks was redeemable about Kuvira that her unleashing a superweapon on a civilian populace was character assassination and not the direction she was headed the entire time.

[@twilightguardian]

@@thegarunixking1101 She’s a badass? She finds her hot? She genuinely couldn’t see the red flags? Who knows.

[@Nockgun]

@@twilightguardiansome stuff is beyond redemption if you were force like conscription or didn't know it gets this bad like enlisting in war, You can be redeemed as long you didn't do horrible acts

[@katkitcrazy618]

From what I remember of Lily's videos on Kuvira (its been years) her basic argument was that since we are only told and not shown her crimes it is thus ooc of Kuvira to do this. Also there was a part where she talks about how Kuvira is justified in taking the United Republic(or at least it's reasonable to her) b/c it was stolen land during the 100 year war and so belongs to the earth kingdom.

[@brandonsabado9140]

Yeah i think she said this recently, she really tries to tie real world politics into fiction...when the fiction itself doesnt even agree with her or even uses the ideas she parrots. ​@katkitcrazy618

[@Hawkatana]

Which is ironic, considering out of all of Korra's villains to declare as in the right, genderswapped metalbender Hitler was probably *the* worst choice.

[@wind64a39]

The pony show starts with a villain created by the unjust ire of the masses and then goes into a multi-seasonal plot line about how some are able to be reformed by being open to kindness while those who only see others as tools plunge further and have to be imprisoned for the good of the many.

[@Rathdrgnknight]

As a pegasister/brony who watched Lily back in the days of MLP, her opinions were contradictory and interpretations of facts incorrect back then, too. She hasn't changed in her inability to interpret media.

[@GaryNac]

@Rathdrgnknight She seemed to reem the crap out of it and to reem the crap out of the fandom but she did seem to care about MLP to some degree (or at least she cared enough about it to make a creepy fan fiction based on it) Overall I think that Lily seemed to have a bit of an ambivalent love hate sort of relationship with MLP and I would hated to see what MLP would have looked like if Lily Orchard was in charge of MLP and had the power to overhaul stuff.

[@Rathdrgnknight]

@GaryNac I remember her constant complaining during Glass of Water. Except who was it Sunset Shimmer who could do no wrong?

[@MelonTartVA]

@@GaryNacunfortunately she dropped that care after season 4 when MLP really started getting serious and her hatred of Starlight Glimmer got really out of control. Not understanding that Starlight Glimmer and Sunset Shimmer were basically counterparts. Both did evil things, both were given a chance to make things right and took it, both felt like outsiders, both were ultimately sympathetic and you could see them trying. And yet Sunset Shimmer is a good character while Starlight is terrible?

[@Cityweaver]

It's especially painful because she sticks to children's media. Like... we are enjoying McDonald's and playing with our Happy Meal toys and she's just shitting on it all. XD

[@GaryNac]

@Cityweaver Lily Orchard being in charge of any studio or network devoted to the making of kids content seems like it would definitely make for one big fat dystopian effing nightmare.

[@dekuisagreatmaincharacter]

*“When education isn’t liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor.”* - Paulo Freire, Brazilian educator and someone Lily Orchard probably would not like or understand.

[@symphomoon9943]

Arthas is the guy next to Xehanort. He is King Arthur twisted to evil. In a video titled "Arthas is the Least Redeemable Character in Warcraft (Glass of Water)," she discussed him. In essence, he was forced to commit numerous unethical deeds in order to defend his people, and to top it all off, an evil sword named Frostmourne corrupted him (oversimplifying it). Lily disregards the tragic aspect of his character in order to support her beloved, Sylvanas Windrunner, who is also flawed.

[@KaiserShounen]

Sounds pretty cringe. I wish a Warcraft fan can just break this shit down to me because there is an untapped goldmine of what to criticize Lily about

[@symphomoon9943]

@@KaiserShounen I've always wanted to be a KZbinr. Making a video analyzing her assertion that "Arthas is the Least Redeemable Character in Warcraft" would be amusing. That might be interesting, but I would have to watch/replay Wrath, play Warcraft 3 again (I haven't played in a long time), and *sigh* do some research on the current Warcraft.

[@ecyor0]

To quote from the moment in the game where Arthas claims the cursed sword that fully corrupts him: "I would gladly bear any curse to save my homeland." And to be clear, after this he almost immediately goes off the deep end and becomes a servant of the Lich King (who is basically what you'd expect from a name like that) and returns home to slay his father and conquer his former homeland in the name of the undead legions, so he ends up a pretty unambiguously evil guy. But to say he's an unsympathetic villain is... let's say it's unsupported by the text.

[@praatzelwurm8578]

Lily is just salty that Arthas is one of the most beloved characters of the franchise.

[@ADADEL1]

@@KaiserShounen Sure, very short version is that after a city became infected with the disease that causes undead (the video calls this part the trolly problem) Arthus decides to kill them before they turn to zombies. After that he chases the demon who caused it, gets possessed by a sword, and kinda becomes the big bad of the setting while the physic remains of his human self is screaming helplessly unable to stop himself.

[@kamikazelemming1552]

A person who likes Digimon and Primeval, and hates Lily's bad takes? Consider me subscribed!

[@GaryNac]

"Teaching Lily Orchard about nuance"Trust me Lily Orchard is most likely not even listening in the first place but either way interesting video nonetheless.

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

Oh no no no see since she's being directly called out she'll notice, but she won't actually watch the video.

[@NintendoMeister2260]

She probably thinks ‘nuance’ is an obscure French cuisine.

[@DangerDan64]

Liliy Orchard is the embodiment of everything wrong with the mindset of the people on Twitter. I'm not exaggerating, aside from people more right leaning and individual more extreme than Liliy, you know what I mean when I say this.

[@Hunterofyeets]

My favorite bad take is when she said that N deserves all of the abuse in her pokemon video, which just....... says alot about her and the ongoing allegations.

[@dragonheart967]

I'm kind of new to this drama, what allegations?

[@cryamistellimek9184]

@@dragonheart967SA’ing their sister kind of allegations.

[@Ballslover18]

​@@dragonheart967her sister accused Lily of SA'ing her while she was asleep. That's the most I'm willing to write about it because holy shit does that make me really uncomfortable

[@kanchomerocks12]

​@@dragonheart967 Sexually assaulting her sister as a child... Grooming fans...

[@bbgrl-l1s]

Also she wrote Stockholm, fanfiction that almost glorifying child sa, abuse, incest and many other things like this about fucking my little pony + made a game where you can rape a child as cosmic nazi invader who she paired with twilight later (plus tried to make her somewhat likeable/redeemable if i am remember correctly which is very funny in context of the video) AND made all of that with pretty young auditory of her without even hiding it and actually pushing it at some degree to them for a loong time soooo she kinda cant be trust around kids and make any takes about them regardless of if situation with her sister is real (it probably is) lol@@dragonheart967

[@Kingbeat1]

Here is a fun fact Lily thinks the white fang stuff happened after Monty death

[@littlebabyman8494]

??????

[@BJGvideos]

​@@littlebabyman8494At about 31:15, the late creator of RWBY. Since she had dismissed the plot as being the result of "sheltered white guys"

[@matthewmccoyd2578]

Need I remind you that Lily actually PRAISED the Hazbin Hotel pilot. If that doesn't scream hypocrisy, I don't know what will...

[@brandonlyon730]

Didn’t Viziepop also liked someone’s video that broke down Lily’s Steven universe video? I wonder if Lily is aware of that and is wanting to take back all the good things she’s ever said about her work?

[@matthewmccoyd2578]

@@brandonlyon730 Wouldn't surprise me

[@NintendoMeister2260]

@@brandonlyon730 Yep. Hiding in Private or H.I.P. She said that the video was the most satisfying thing she ever saw.

[@Somerandomjingleberry]

Given the context of Charlie basically challenging Christian views of moral judgment, or at least some contemporary flavor of those views that run counter to the doctrine that anyone can potentially repent… I could easily see Lily interpreting it as “oh I get it, because the angels and stuff are all bad guys, the ‘bad people’ being redeemed by Charlie’s actions in Hell were never the bad guys in the first place but instead the victims of angelic oppression!”

[@matthewmccoyd2578]

@@Somerandomjingleberry No, it's a metaphor for the American Prison system

[@jerbear8884]

Lily's takes on how media functions is really bizarre, almost like she thinks "Well I'VE seen this before, so therefore everything else is copying and can't be done ever again" And it's hard to parse her end goal of a video initially cuz it never makes sense as a standalone project. It's only when you realize "oh this is all wrapped up in her personal life" do the takes start to have a perspective But I do think this was a good and measured response! ❤

[@LordTyph]

Just as a correction on the X-Men thing, Stan Lee originally just meant them, if anything, as representatives of 'outsiders', people who didn't fit in and so on, the prejudice aspect came later as an expansion of things. And while there was suspicion and prejudice in the initial era, it was because there were outright evil mutants in those days, which lead to fear of mutants in general. Bad Apples spoiling the bunch and all of that, or at least the viewpoint of them. Thus, Xavier wanted the X-Men to both have a place where they could live in peace and learn to better control their extraordinary abilities and to be able to fight the evil mutants who threatened humanity (back in those days, Magneto was a more 'general' evil villain and the leader of the evil mutants, his holocaust survivor backstory hadn't been made yet). Bonus points, the X-Men did actually get along with regular people in those days too, the prejudice angle only came up in the relaunch stuff... which similar to the movie, probably came, in part, due to Magneto's initial aggression. Easy to see Mutants as something to hate when you've been victims of evil ones. Gotta love self-fulfilling prophecies, huh? Also, regarding Monty, I'm pretty sure no one will argue that the first 3 seasons he was a part of were rough, even regarding the old fans (the first two seasons and half of season 3 were done by him, the remainder of season 3 was based on his notes with his wife helping). The big issue that gets taken regarding him (and why he gets attacked less) is more due to the writers, from what I've heard, disregarding his notes and plans for the story after Season 3 and... well, you see the result of such. That's not to say he would have automatically been better but it would have at least still been his story still. For some fans, that ends up being the biggest sticking point and probably the real reason why he doesn't get criticized as much (note, AS much).

[@Animogx]

Its kind of funny you mentioned Lolita at the end because Lily literally wrote a thing that took base concepts of Lolita but portrayed the 30+ year old woman shacking up with a teen girl, living out of the older woman's strip club, as the morally upstanding character and anyone who disagreed would either "See the Light" or were horrible people. That doesn't even cover the rest of the mess in that but that's not for me to dump here

[@leithaziz2716]

I've never watched any of Lily's content, but I randomly stumbled on this video in my recommendations. I commend you Twilight for being (for lack of a better word) one of the most human analytics of media. It's very clear how much you value compassion for others. It's admirable to be frank, especially with how jaded the world can feel at times.

[@john_o]

11:45 You're right. Even My Little Pony is too much for Lily to comprehend. Like there was one episode where a former villain creates a nightmare entity to punish themself for being evil in the past and it's a very obvious "don't beat yourself up for who you were or what you did in the past, you're a changed and better person now" message that most kids would easily get. Lily thought it was a metaphor for self-harm (i.e. cutting yourself with razor blades). And don't get me started on the times she compares villains to school shooters.

[@LegacyComics100]

I’m a guy who believes that sympathetic villains are being watered down and overplayed, but Lily’s arguments are unimpressive, and his scary moral framework raises more concerns than questions. If I’m willing to discuss, if I was told what was wrong with today’s villains or why there’s no stakes when it comes to the Mary Sue, girl boss, and the lack of ver similitude. It would be due to placing a crude need to "humanize" rather than provide competency or integrity to the villain’s plans or motivations. I believe MCU Thanos is overrated compared to his comic counterpart because the MCU doesn’t present any integrity with his plans to wipe out half the universe for “the resources” that even he isn’t convinced it can work; he gets talked down to by Black Panther in five minutes (noted in a what if story, but still). The comics, however, create an argument that’s a lot more interesting considering he uses examples from other worlds to illustrate his philosophy that life is a cancer; if you leave an invasive, seemingly harmless species to roam free without any natural opposing forces, that destabilizes the cosmos. Folks want to be simple and say he’s a Death Simp despite the fact this Simp managed to fight Odin to a standstill (without the gems) that he forced Odin to push himself and he shows more respect for his enemies like Captain Mar-Vell by being willing to cure his cancer and give him a blaze of glory warrior’s death. If you want a case of a villain where you can utilize both the ruthless and the sympathies, look no further than Rampage from Beast Wars. A twisted predicon created to recreate Starscream’s immortal spark breaks out and destroys an entire colony (and implied to cannibalize people) before he was placed in a dumpster pod before he was found and required against his will. He claims he regrets everything, yet he takes pleasure in the terror of his opponents, and his only comfort was a mangled protoform for sharing a similar spark to his own. So in other words, yes, Lily, you have these in multiple ways than yours; heck, you can even have a situation where the muscle of a villain team manages to outsmart a super genius in terms of combat strategy, creating engaging dynamics.

[@x-inks8558]

thanks so much for this, lily makes writing so limiting and boring it makes me sad sometimes how many people follow her mindset for approaching stories

[@raximone2872]

I love a minimalist video title.

[@twilightguardian]

@@raximone2872 hahaha oops I’ll have to fix that once I’m back home

[@KaiserShounen]

The real Nuanced Writers are the friends we see along the way lol Jokes aside though, great video. I especially think MHA's usage is very poignant because it shows that no matter what cause someone is fighting for, it can be co-opted and manipulated by bad actors who wish to use it for their own ends. However, I guess in Lily's mind, that scenario just doesn't exist or we shouldn't write about it.

[@avivastudios2311]

She doesn't know enough about politics and activism to know that it can be bad.

[@Cityweaver]

MHA has someone like Stain, who was angry about a very real issue, have his whole name and prestige co-oped by Shigaraki, who doesn't care at ALL. And then the yakuza try to co-op Shigaraki. And then the MLA tries their hand, and ends up eaten by Shigaraki and turned into the PLF. I think its very interesting that the author Horikoshi ONLY uses this very cynical tactic, of different groups trying to use each other's status and reputation without regard to their actual beliefs. It by-passes the usual storylines of people switching sides because they changed their ways and focuses on just the need to survive..... It kinda reminds me of The Transformers comics, back in the day. According to some ways of writing the backstory of Transformers, "Autobots" was the name of the faction that controlled everything and everyone else simply was a non-Autobot, or Cybertronian. When Megatron created the concept of a "Decepticon", the bots that rallied under that banner didn't agree about anything and just unified under their willingness to fight Autobots. Which explains why Autobots are a very specific range of types of Transformers, while Decepticons can be literally ANYTHING. And 50% of Transformer stories are "the devil you know" stories where some bad actor is trying to climb the ranks of the Decepticons to steal their influence for themselves and Optimus Prime would much rather deal with Megatron, Shockwave, and Soundwave than an usurper. XD

[@Vavalry]

God Im trying to imagine Lily looking at my story where the freaking core theme is about the dangers of radicalization and how it can turn even the most well intended good hearted people into horrible monsters, and her going “ah yes, the mass murderer whose now killing the people he swore to protect in the name of taking down the status quo is clearly the good guy! Why are the heroes not letting him blow up the city?”

[@twilightguardian]

Honestly kinda same. My novel, (later on in the series, mind you) while not focused on radicalization, does have themes about letting anger take you to places you never thought you'd go. It's understandable he'd go to those places but actions still have consequences. I don't think Lily would enjoy it what so ever.

[@Vavalry]

@@twilightguardian yeah I think she’s a “the ends justify the means” person. Thats why she touts simple villains as the better, since in her eyes the only way a villain can be a villain if their ends in no way justify the means. Ozai wanted world domination so what he did was evil, but since Kuvira is fighting a perceived injustice all of the evil stuff she does is totally A-Ok.

[@CodeBlazeFate]

If Lily wasn't an aggressive anime hater, I genuinely wonder what the fuck she'd even think about Code Geass, a franchise that ultimately posits a need for systemic change in the case of totalitatian authoritatianism even though it's still a heinous, bloody affair while attempts to chabge the system from within are similarly flawed for usually different but sometimes equally bloody reasons. Eh, Lily would probably hate it because people on all sides, knowingly and sometimes otherwise, have all sorts of blood on their hands, and because the ideological conflict, while favoring her views, is actively meant to be rendered farcical by episode 16 so she'd question its purpose.

[@BPlarg]

I'd guess she just doesn't want any fiction that isn't purely didactic tracts, that says in no simpler terms "these are the good guys who do good things and those are the bad guys that do bad things." I wonder how she'd react if she were to ever come across Legend of the Galactic Heroes. A story of interstellar war that alternates its focus between both factions, with sympathetic and unsympathetic characters on both of them, and, most unusual for most action-adventure fiction: does not require you to root for one side over the other. I mean, it is war. It's a war that could have ended within the first dozen episodes of the show, but continued because politicians wanted to use jingoism to win their next election. I'm guessing she'd try to shoehorn it into "Alliance Good Empire Bad" and then be mad about the scene where the Imperial citizens complain to the 'liberators' that they want food on the table before they want democracy. All while the Alliance military actively makes everything worse for them.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

You should question the purpose of all media tho

[@CodeBlazeFate]

@@Alex_Barbosa Not wrong but also nothing about anything here implies that you shouldn't. However, there's a huge difference between trying to understand the point of a work and its makers are going for, and whatever the fuck Lily's doing.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

@@CodeBlazeFate you ended your comment saying "she'd question it's purpose" which I thought implied it was a bad thing.

[@CodeBlazeFate]

@@Alex_Barbosa She'd question the purpose of a conflict out of frustration and call it bad because she wouldn't understand why it's there. The phrase is used as more of a criticism and matter of doubt or dismissal, like when people go "I question why x thing is even here", or when you don't like someone and go "why is this guy even here?"

[@thearrivalcyberseignister8898]

It baffles to me how my 10 year old cousin can understand that kuvira is a nazi and yet a full grown person cant get it, lily made a good choice on only watching animated media because i cant imagine what would she think about anything beyond the most basics of subtext

[@williammorahan4907]

@@thearrivalcyberseignister8898 Hottake: Kuvira represents Extreme Nationalism, not Nazism.

[@failuretv814]

​@@williammorahan4907 1) She quite literally sent people of different ethinicities to work camps in an attempt to make a more pure Earth Empire 2) She stated when trying out her spirit cannon that she wanted the Earth Empire and its people to be Strong 3) She has pursued a highly expansionist and militaristic foreign policy by invading the United Republic and conquering it before marching to Republic City That is the text book definition of a Nazi

[@Alex_Barbosa]

​@@williammorahan4907it's the same thing

[@Alex_Barbosa]

Let's not downplay animated media

[@williammorahan4907]

@@Alex_Barbosa Wasn’t trying to - I just don’t particularly see Kuvira and the Earth Empire as Nazis.

[@daltronius]

its crazy that lily cant understand that good ideas dont justify horrible actions, the whole point of magneto is that his fear of another holocaust, and his actions done to prevent it, can be seen as its own form of holocaust, and justifying the murder/enslavement of hundreds of thousands of innocents as ok bc the goal was noble, is sickening, hope she never tries to become an activist, with her opinions here im scared what will happen. Not to mention the whole point of umon is that hes a liar, he claims to be a non bender, starts a race war and all bc he wants political power, hes not doing it for the non benders hes grifting off them. i find it shocking how much she complains about people fighting oppressors being the bad guy, when they critizied xahier for doin this exact same thing, only they were successful

[@williammorahan4907]

I disagree Magneto is meant to be example of the cycle of revenge between Mutants and Ordinary Humans which I believe is a major theme of the entire X-Men franchise. He’s also a cautionary tale about how Also you fail to mention that Amon’s blood bending technique and entire philosophy is the result of the horrific abuse that he and his brother endured at the hands of their father who wanted to mold them into instruments for his revenge.

[@daltronius]

@@williammorahan4907 yes, his technique is based on his abuse, but im criticizing his actions and beliefs specifically, hes a bender causing the avatar equivalent of a race war so he can gain political power, whetger he had that power bc a magical unicorn doesnt affect his motives as the leader, its a deeper part of his character sure. And yea, magneto is an example of that, hence why bc hes so worried humans will commit another holocaust he goes on a genocide, which all it foes it make it more likely for humans to fear them.

[@williammorahan4907]

@@daltronius Magneto is admittedly not always written consistently (an issue of mainstream comic books) but he’s only not the only Mutant perpetuating the cycle of fear and revenge. I’m also pretty sure that Noatak/Amon genuinely did believe in the Equalist cause he preached, even if he was delusional about it from the beginning.

[@milesreid-lobatto4092]

They’ve been flip-flopping Magneto since the 80s when they retconned in the Holocaust survivor stuff. Every time they’ve tried to make Magneto a villain again has had mixed results and it has boiled down to ‘they keep killing us, why shouldn’t I kill them, no matter their power and level of complicity.’

[@ninacohen1132]

Yeah I don't like him as a villain most of the time. Claremont wrote him well like this, making him a true extremist with good intention with whom you coild really empathise with him while understandiding how he was in the wrong, but the others authors' way of making him "complex" were basically "yes he's pure evil but look at his tragic backstory"

[@milesreid-lobatto4092]

⁠​⁠@@ninacohen1132it’s one of the low points of the Morrison Run, but I think elements of what Morrison was grabbing at, interesting. I loved what they did with him with the Krakoa-era.

[@ijbdawg9]

I can’t say that I watched much of Lilly Orchard, I just had one video of hers that I liked. And at the time I saw it I noticed that she seemed way too heated/invested about the topic at hand for some reason. So it wasn’t that hard of a pitch when someone told me she had a little “cult of personality”. No idea how or why, just a general mind boggle for me. Also on a positive note, I really like your Digimon style for your avatar.

[@twilightguardian]

Thank you! The Digimon style is very different from my normal one but I was pleased with how it turned out. I hadn’t watched much of Lily either. I remember watching her two big videos and I don’t remember much about them other than I largely disagreed. I mostly forgot about her until recently.

[@ijbdawg9]

@@twilightguardian Actually now that I think about it, the video I saw was about her view of “evil”. Using Mass Effect’s genophage plot line to show that evil is a choice. Funny how she applies that logic there, and not here. 🤔

[@joshridinger3407]

@ijbdawg9 that's funny because the genophage is basically like 'what if The Indigenous found a way to control white colonialism'. the krogan are like the yts. ultra-violent mercenaries who breed like rabbits because they're from plague-infested europe/predator -infested tuchanka. the krogan would have killed or colonized everyone if they weren't stopped.

[@justinbowers2749]

Lily is one of those people you watch for the train wreck, or as TV Tropes puts it, Bile Fascination

[@MaskedMike]

43:05 Wait hang just a minute! If Lily believes that what the writer creates reflects their personal beliefs, then the same applies to her. And since Lily wrote Stockholm (a story containing grooming a minor), then that means...that means m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXKrl42EhdR_jZI&pp=ygUOUGVkbyBiZWFyIHNvbmc%3D

[@imgkaizer]

I just feel like pointing out that, when I was a 12 to 13 year old, I played ace combat zero, and I noticed the nuance of the final boss, because he wanted to end the world's borders, something I really think isn't that bad of an idea, but he was doing that by killing a bunch of people, I undestood why what he was doing made some sense, but still disagreed to his means of attaining said goals. A game about fighter jets is probably too complicated for lily. The game is awesome btw, you guys should play it.

[@reinweissritter]

God, I love ace combat, I wish they would remaster 4, 5 and Zero.

[@imgkaizer]

@@reinweissritter That's so fucking true bro, I want a remake or a remastered collection of the ps2 ace combat games. Also, a remake of the og ps2 super robot wars games would be pretty awesome. Got the ideia from your pfp

[@reinweissritter]

@@imgkaizer Heh, my /m/an. I also would like one too, but at this point I'd rather them just give us OG 3rd, at least OGs got translated and there's only Gaiden left, 2nd just needs someone to patch the already translated script and Moon Dwellers needs actual translators instead of the MTL crap they did.

[@imgkaizer]

@@reinweissritter Moon dwellers should be in steam already ngl

[@reinweissritter]

@@imgkaizer I agree, but again, it needs to be retranslated because of the official one is trash. Hopefully one day we can see the OG collection on steam.

[@R0-83-RT]

My god thank you so very much. I saw this video years ago, and wow it was a take I fundamentally disagreed with. Anti-Villains are one of my favorite tropes for villains, I love the nuance of there being a difference in motivation vs actions. I will also say I can like pure evil villains, force of nature villains, villains who have tragic back stories yet are still undoubtedly evil, and any flavor in-between. Heck having multiple types of villains in A story of varying mortality can help show a change in tone or scale, while adding variety to a story.

[@flydrop8822]

7:55 The High-Evolutionary is probably MCU's greatest pure evil villain and a good example as to how make a non-sympathetic villain.

[@CassiusStelar]

Wait the guy from Spider Man Unlimited was added to the MCU?

[@fabioherrera859]

​@@CassiusStelarYep. In Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3. And eyyyy, someone remembers that show. You made my day

[@eeveefan132]

@@CassiusStelarIt always brightens my day whenever someone remembers that show

[@watchface6836]

God after listening to this I'd love to see what Lily thinks of Dune, specifically what she thinks of the Bene Gesserit. Then again, Frank Herbert's writing and Denis Villneuve's movies are far above Lily's reading comprehension level.

[@Hilipinapixili]

I mean... To be completely fair, Dune can be a challenging read for people with normal reading comprehension. He's not James Joyce, but Herbert's style is hard to grok for many people. Mix that with someone who doesn't understand nuance and you've got a recipe for disaster... And probably one more voice claiming that Dune is a "white savior story".

[@Grf1556]

That's true, Lily can't even comprehend children's shows, let alone adult literature.

[@avivastudios2311]

I had an interesting thought. It's almost like Lily is approaching morality in the same black and white way that people accuse Christians of doing.

[@justinbowers2749]

And that’s why you need to be wary of people who say “it’s not all black and white” because 10 out of ten, they are a hypocrite

[@crazycookie4645]

Which is ironic because Lily is quite a staunch (and rather obnoxious) atheist. Her opinion on The Prince of Egypt was.....certainly a take. One of the many things she complained about was God punishing Egypt and getting away with it, but see, here's the thing..........He's GOD. Human moral standards don't apply to Him, and to act like they should is just the wrong mindset to have whether you believe in Him or not. She's basically trying to apply the same logic she uses with kid's shows to an ancient Abrahamic tale and those two things just don't mesh.

[@justinbowers2749]

Also, speaking as a Christian, we need to remember the context to God’s various actions. Her talk of “God punishes Egypt and gets away with it”, did she forget that Egypt was *ENSLAVING THE JEWS?!* I figured she’d be over the moon about the retribution God places on the Egyptians, that would fall in line with her whole “if they are oppressive then it’s ok mentality” and i agree, God’s ways are not our ways and his way of thinking is beyond our comprehension, but we also have to remember when God gets angry, it’s always justified when you look into the context.

[@crazycookie4645]

​@justinbowers2749 She also asked why God didn't just free the Hebrews Himself. This completely ignores the very prominent idea in religion that humans have to put in some of the work themselves. If God did everything for everybody, people would be spoiled and never learn anything.

[@justinbowers2749]

Exactly! Thats the thing with people like Lily, they hate the idea of an all powerful, all knowing, all loving God because they don’t like the idea of answering to a higher power, but the minute things get tough, they suddenly decide he’s the perfect scapegoat and blame him and demand why he didn’t do anything…even though he was respecting their free will; they can’t decide whether God is a Big Brotheresque Tyrant who rules us with an iron fist, or a Deadbeat dad who never does anything. They want to have their cake and eat it too; freedom without consequences, Freedom without responsibility

[@theguyishere249]

Interesting to see a Channel from 2006 not make many videos. Then years later come back swinging. Great stuff.

[@balisongguy8479]

Lily seems to completely ignore the parallels that magneto has with Israel, a state that I have no doubt that she hates. Magneto uses the idea of "never again" to justify atrocities against innocents and without any discrimination between actual hostile parties and non-hostile parties. The fact that Chris Claremont is jewish, had lived in a kibbutz in Israel as a kid, and literally modeled magneto off of Israeli politician Menachem Begin, who's parents were murdered in the holocaust, further supports this. Even if Claremont didn't intend for this to be the case, the idea that hurt people, even ones who were the victims of horrible atrocities, can do terrible things is not a new or even rare thing portrayed in media.

[@samlerf]

Another palestine apologist.

[@Nameless-ln5mr]

@@balisongguy8479 There’s an old saying that deserves to be repeated, no matter the point in history. “Hurt people hurt people”. Even if you are a victim of some terrible deed, you are more than capable of committing atrocities yourself, especially ones aimed at those who hurt you to begin with… A pity Lily will call whoever said that an “uneducated turd”, then go on to rant about how “victims” can do no wrong, even if they, oh I don’t know, target their aggressor’s family (even if said family is innocent outside of the original perpetrator, and they didn’t know about said perp’s deeds).

[@raccoonwarlock]

Lily's real argument is "A minority character using violence against their oppressor should never be framed as the villain," which is SOMETIMES a fair statement when made in a vaccuum. The problem arises with her argument. Magneto USED to be a villain because he used to be a subtextual Zionist before reforming. From what I gather about Rwby, the White Fang was a non-profit support group before 1 guy took over & turned them into terrorists. Amon was a child abused with bending as the tool, so he saw bending as inherently abusive; ergo, if he takes bending away, he takes the weapon away from abusers. & he had no political ideology, that was a result of audience interpretation

[@roberthebert2826]

tbh the RWBY stuff with the White Fang is more just the writers had no idea what they were doing with that plot line and it makes no sense (this is coming from a fan of the show).

[@Broomer52]

Lilly just seems like a legitimately evil person when they explain their logic like she did with Magneto and it scared me how many people like her exist

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

She's like Moviebob, who outright said that the people that picked on him at school were just afraid of his brilliant intellect and that Magneto was right. Outright going "If the X Men were real, I know what side I'd be on" whilst putting a Magneto helmet over a profile picture of him. Not to mention, Magneto's helmet is kind of symbolic, it's a helmet that covers the head. Whilst this in universe is so that Charles can't mind control him or influence him, in reality it's a metaphor for being close minded and self centered, not letting anyone in and not letting anyone convince you that what you're doing is wrong.

[@Tabletopcloud20]

Another internet user criticizing comic book characters without actually reading comics? Why am i not shocked?

[@fabioherrera859]

Must be tuesday

[@agustinberto6138]

That's not even the main problem. Heck, it's not one of the main 5 problems going on on her mind

[@willow1601]

Why is it important to read source material to criticize the adaptation? It’s important to have points of view separated from source material as well as attached to source material. This way you get both perspectives. Like Legend of Korra is much worse with the history of AtLA attached to it than not. (Arguably very little wrong with it when ignoring AtLA beyond “edginess” and cringey teen drama)

[@DuskyPredator]

Magneto is tragic in the sense that he is a traumatised man, who let's his trauma define him in see the worst and then doing horrible things in response. At his worst he hates humanity and does not use it responsibly. And yet his character is so cool as we can see versions of the character that he can believe in Charles' vision. Or sometimes there is a point that Magneto's hate is not that special, and terrible things can be done from the human side.

[@TheNerdWithASuit]

I wanna talk about the views Lily has on characters like Catra one day when I do a video essay all about the cat and what She-Ra says about abuse. One of the most insanely ironic things I have seen in all of media analysis is how Lily can't seem to grasp the idea somebody would make a story about an abused child who displays their trauma in an uncomfortable way finding the needed mental mechanisms to break the intergenerational cycle of violence and find a happy ending, and instead just shrugs her off as a heartless irredeemable monster, then you go look up stuff about Lily and you find out she herself is an abuser who refuses to own up to what she has done. The irony is just absolutely stunning.

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

I know your main analysis on the show did talk about this, but an individual video expanding on it would be really cool. It would be great to respond to her and lots of other people who call the show "problematic" because of this. Like pointing out how the romance only starts after a season of growth (and one season of Catra facing personal consequences for her actions) or that the show rejects the notion of a swift, easy redemption via her seemingly sacrificing herself, since Adora decided to come back for her. And yeah, Lily viewing her that way is ironic.

[@Flummoxyn]

Oh dont worry Lily wasnt good at critizing MLP either from what I remember The plots still went over her head a lot of the time, especially if they were about characters she didn't care about or if characters were being mean to her bias

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

Oh I see Lily's not mad there's sympathetic villians, she's mad their even called villians in the first place. There's a fantastic quote from Fairy Tail I love to keep in my head, "There's a victim inside every villian that does'nt absolve us of our crime." I love that because it's the perfect argument for why a villian is called a villian. It does'nt matter how tragic a charachter's backstory is, if their fully in control of their actions and choose to hurt innocent people that's inexcusable no matter what. Xehanort for example messed with innocent children repeadetly for the sake of his own goals and was willing to genocide the whole universe in the name of being right. Also as someone who loves My little pony I can confirm that Lily's takes on that show are no less annoying and she's got plenty of people who hate her in that fandom too. She's always been an insuffrable bitch but people were ignorant of her then, thanks to fabolus roasts like yours though people can see through her BS more easily.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

You understood Xehanorts' goals? I didn't understand Xehanort at all. And I tried.

[@underconstruction6436]

Magneto: Literally says he agrees with a fucking Nazi on human supremacy Lily: "I'll pretend I didn't hear that"

[@michaeldorsey9231]

Stuff like this is what makes me happy that Lily never got into One Piece, I couldn’t stand to see her takes on Arlong or Hody Jones or the Fishman subplot in general.

[@BJGvideos]

She would probably also get *really* ranty about how Arlong is played by a black guy in live action too even though that's sorta the POINT, that any and all racial supremacy is wrong no matter what

[@Dragonlordofthunder]

I think the issue is that Lily orchard sees the world as purely black and white with heroes and villains and therefore when fiction has shades on grey then this is the writer choosing the wrong side. The french revolution is probably the classic example of an antiquated, deeply unfair and innefficent system goes through a very bloody upheavel that caused alot of suffering but also the system being changed. Its a very complex moral period where heroes and villains are tricky to find. Lily orchard though would probably just say revolutionaries good regardless and showing their attrocities makes you bad. Edit: I will steelman Lily's kuvira take slightly. I definitely disagree with her perspective that adding insane evil to a not pure evil antagonist like kuvira means that the writers are trying to defend the status quo oppressions. But there is a point of it often being fairly lazy. Infinity war thanos was more nuanced than Endgame thanos because IWT's plan (while flawed in practicality) had logic and reasoning based on thanos' experiences, ET on the other hand was just kill everyone and recreate everything because well we need another stake because IWTs thanos' plan worked. It felt lazy just like how kuvira's mech or amon being a hypocritical bloodbender felt lazy. I prefered the final boss of Lost Judgement who was similarly sympathetic but was logical and going too far.

[@twilightguardian]

I hope I was able to properly convey in the video that things are a lot more complicated than what she desires. Though throughout this video at least - which is all I was basing her opinions on, she never made that distinction in order to give her opinion the nuance it should have to start that discussion. If I watched Korra I might very well agree with you, but in this video she never talked about being upset that the culmination was unsatisfying, just the fallacy that an otherwise reasonable human being suddenly became crazy to justify their evil because the writers are white and also evil. Just because she happens to also land on the correct conclusion doesn’t mean she understands why it’s bad or thinks it’s bad for the same reasons most other people would. And she seemed pretty happy with Kuvira as a heroic figure until then so we can only assume she didn’t view her as the dictator most people say she is. That view might change upon a rewatch of her LOK content but I tried to not use much outside knowledge for this video and show how a video can come off cut off from other videos. I’m not a Lily fan, so it’s from an outsider’s First Video perspective as much as I could make it with only the occasional reference to knowing more.

[@Dragonlordofthunder]

Yeah it was a great video, with good argumentation, backing up and bringing up points and split well into sections for ease of use. Its an interesting topic with sympathetic villains that lead themselves to more discussion than lily brings up(due to her black and white views).

[@kittenfan7664]

the nuke mech was just to make kuvira a stronger opponent. Kuvira was allready insane evil. Kuvira was useing nazi talkingpoints about "restoreing the glory of the earth kingdom". she was going to do wahtever she could to capture or destroy republic city becuase it was ours once, so it needs to be ours again. we MUST recapture the glory of the earth kingdom.

[@Dragonlordofthunder]

@kittenfan7664 National renewal isn't just a nazi idea. Many nations such as revolutionary france, attaturks turkey and KMT china were engaged in national renewals against very antiquated kingdoms who were then forcefully modernised with force. The nazis on the other hand took over from a very cutting edge nation that was democratic and was cutting edge even back during the imperial german days of having advanced unions, proto welfare state as well as some democracy. There is some inspiration there but I see it as flawed. The "reeducation camps" were a good way to make kuvira explicitly villanous with them being a logical successor to the Dai Li camps. the "submit or else" mentality combined with providing development, stability and resources to the citizens(remember that the earth kingdom is atleast 100 years backwards by the time of korra) makes her rule more morally grey. The attack on Zaofu makes sense given its earth kingdom territory and the moral question is more about sovereignty(zaofu being developed by beifongs but also it is earth kingdom territory). I think that sympathy should be with the beifongs because they built it up but kuvira also has a legitimate claim. With the attack on republic city is where it seems that the writers got a bit confused. It makes relative sense why kuvira would want to attack the city but also its illogical because of its multibender nature and being almost impossible to rule, also there is no equivalent hereditary monarch to oppose. I think a more logical target would have been the fire nation as a kind of revenge for the war during avatar as well as wanting to replace the fire lord(this being their explicit claim with revenge being the said reason). This is somewhat inspired by napoleons mission too. P.s I think amon's U turn was alot worse than kuvira's which is generally a good descent into villainy but who could be done better(especially near the end).

[@kittenfan7664]

@@Dragonlordofthunder I wouldn't call it illogical. She would have removed all non earthbenders. Restore the city to glory. Then those people are now the enemy.

[@rafaynoman1180]

40:30 OK that's just unfair. Bulls are extremly careful in a china shop, so you're giving Lilly way to much credit here.

[@dubuyajay9964]

Yeah, Mythbusters proved that. 😂🤣

[@aegisScale]

She's more like the trolley problem trolley in a china shop, that thing doesn't care what's in its path and it certainly won't care if said things get destroyed💀

[@rafaynoman1180]

@@aegisScale She's the type of person who would do a drift with the trolly to kill the people on both sides.

[@leoncritiques]

Excellent video Twilight! You hit the nail perfectly on the head, and snuck in some hilarious digs against Lily. More than anything else, Lily Orchard hates the concept of nuance, preferring instead to view the world from her incredibly narrow, shallow, black and white view. And beyond how hypocritical that makes her and how disturbing her perception of reality is, actually taking any of Lily’s advice would more than likely make your story more dull and bland. Can’t wait to see more content from you in the future!

[@rjrowley3887]

Lily orchard having a bad take? Must be a day ending in y

[@machmach2461]

Since you don’t remember the Legend of Korra that well I should tell you that by season 4 episode 5 Kuvira being a villain/bad person was completely revealed to the members of the audience who somehow didn’t notice yet. And it had nothing to do with the Big O style robot. We don’t find out anything about the fact she made the robot until she uses it 5 episodes later.

[@DTux5249]

That's certainly one hell of a warm up, Twi lol. While it certainly isn't hard to criticize the extremist level absurdity that is Lily Orchard, you did so in an extremely thorough, and well articulated way. In a world that's flooded with short-form content, I'm glad I could find an hour long deconstruction of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

[@Ra88ful]

One of my favorite " troops" in anime, TV, and extra is when a happy-go-lucky character becomes evil, even if it's for one episode, because it shows that even good characters can be evil.

[@TheAbigailDee]

Also, as another Canadian, we have a rich history of being absolutely terrible to Indigenous people (the bougie Toronto people coming to the pipeline protests made me know you'd know exactly what I was talking about 😭) and it drives me nuts to see Lily talk about only violent protest are good but lots of quiet long term difficulty work is why we know what we do about residential schools. WHICH she never speaks up about! Never seen her talk about missing and murdered indigenous women either... Impactful long term protests done using all sorts of non violent methods that have garnered so much public favour that even some of the most right wing people I know agree we should continue looking into the residential school issues and wearing orange shirts on Truth and Reconciliation day. Like it's a good real life example of long term activism.

[@twilightguardian]

From what I've seen of her tumblr, she has some pretty wild takes about indigenous people and places like reservations. I would not be surprised if she actually doesn't care about any of that other than how it affects her personally as someone who might be able to claim status if she ever dared to. I've met another person like her irl, bragged about all the 'free money' he got that he wasted on partying and all that. As someone who was struggling through college at the time and who had a friend who struggled getting money and red tape or whatever with his band, I thought it was very wasteful. Lily also seems to be of the camp of people who think that violent protest is the only way to get results, which as we've seen with everything going on with Truth and Reconciliation, isn't true. We still have a long way to go and I think it's ridiculous there is a lot of humming and hawing over it. Maybe I just never got over the fact that I saw my entire town as one big family as a very little kid and we were all in some way 'native' whether by blood or symbolically, but I always thought it was ridiculous that basic human respect couldn't be upheld by some people to them and it goes double for someone like Lily. It just baffles me.

[@TheAbigailDee]

@@twilightguardian I agree with you 100% here! People not using what they have well is so brutal and you're right that some of the more violent Truth and Reconciliation protests have been the ones that didn't help. The ones that have done a lot of the most valuable work and results were the more "quiet" hard activism. And totally communities like yours where everyone is seen as people and their histories mattered would be more important and beneficial. I think you're totally right. She would never see it that way or use her platform like that of course.

[@dragonwatter]

nice video sorry for your suffering, can't stands people like lilly. and some of us engage in fiction to get to know the characters and have experiences we could not have in the real world.

[@ducciomori46]

Thank you algorithm, i must say. Didn’t know anything about the original video or any controversy at all, but it has been interesting to hear these “peculiar” assertions on villains and writing in general

[@MalevolentDivinity]

I think the guy next to Xehanort is Arthas Menethil from Warcraft. The Lich King. I don't know much about him, having never played anything Warcraft, but from what I recall, he's actually a fairly complex villain. Was once a paladin, some weird undead shit happened and he made a huge sacrifice for the greater good which wound up corrupting him long term until he became a baddie. That or the undead wiped out a city and his inability to prevent it caused a descent into madness. Or both. Or neither.

[@GaryNac]

It's not necessarily entirely the desired ends which make Magneto bad its sort of more so the means and the means not fully justifying the desired ends.That's kind of the point of Magneto.

[@LukasJampen]

Nobody should ever take her input on writting seriously. She treats her preferences as if they are gospel and the way she wants for example autism to be represented has to be the exact version of autism she has, as if it wasn't a very broad spectrum of people and behaviours.

[@classicrockkid345]

As a former brony, I can tell you that there were only 2 simple main villains throught the series. Discord, who became somewhat good. And Tireck. A villain who's evil cor the sake of being evil.

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

Also King Sombra, but he's honestly a bit of a nothing burger all around.

[@ARCtheCartoonMaster]

@@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816 Dude, a meat patty is something. You said nothing. Fizz, is a meat patty something or nothing?

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

@@ARCtheCartoonMaster What does this even mean?

[@CreativaArtly]

Btw she is an irl villain ngl and her takes on writing shouldn’t be taken with any grain of salt considering the thing she’s best known for in brony is writing an MLP cp fic so yeah…

[@BJGvideos]

Writing fiction isn't a crime and should never be seen as such. Look at her real world views and actions for your points instead

[@maroontiger1361]

​@@BJGvideos Lily's sister has made allegations of sexual abuse against her. Specifically, the things written in the fic are the abuses Lily inflicted on her sister. So you may want to rethink your stance

[@BJGvideos]

@@maroontiger1361 So focus on THAT and not a fanfic.

[@maroontiger1361]

@@BJGvideos Unfortunately, those two things are connected. I am looking at her real world actions being depicted in her fiction

[@BJGvideos]

@@maroontiger1361 Plenty of people who AREN'T real world predators write identical stories though.

[@avwillis5269]

One of the most popular movies today in many circles, "puss in Boots and the last wish" uses all three villain types, simplistic, complicated, and force of nature.

[@soraheart520]

I know whatever is said in this video I can use in my own writing

[@Cole205]

Okay, Twilight Guardian, I kneel. You are queen.

[@rafaynoman1180]

20:38 Well I mean with all the allegations about her out there.... yeah I dont think she likes to take no for an answer.

[@samlerf]

Allegations aren't evidence just because you dislike her.

[@rafaynoman1180]

@@samlerf I never said if they were true or not, hence why I used the word "allegations" which means "a claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong without proof". But hey you were spot on about me not liking her so you were atleast half right.

[@TheRecession5075]

Now I want to give Lily a copy of The Watchmen to see her brain short-circuit.

[@223Drone]

I'd like to see her react to KOTOR: 2 TSL. I don't think she would grasp the motives and reasoning of the three main villains (especially Kreia).

[@electricangel4488]

"Lily acts like how the right thinks the left acts" ... sadly that was me. I wouldnt be surpriced if my opinion of "the left " got more negative because of lily's. Intresting takes

[@BJGvideos]

She doesn't represent us at all She doesn't represent anyone but nitwits

[@johngrace1312]

Ok, I was already on board with this channel from the obviously Digimon inspired avatar, but 29:47 has earned you a subscription. That interjection was too fuckin funny.

[@johngrace1312]

Ok, you referenced Birdy the Mighty, you might officially be my favorite person in the world right now

[@SpikeJet2736]

There's a subplot in one of my favorite games Red Dead Redemption about rebels fighting against the Mexican government. The leader Reyes says all the right things like fighting for freedom and all that bullshit but the reality is that he is no better than the people he's fighting against and he'll become a dictator once he gets power. John Marston in one last effort even says to Reyes "I doubt you'll even remember me" and "When you win power, remember why you wanted it" but John knows deep down that it won't change anything I use that as example because it's also incredibly naïve of Lily to think that just because someone might be an activist or rebel or what have you that their goals are always going to be noble