TEARDROP IN THE TRAFFIC PATTERN? Flying at non-towered airports and how to enter the traffic pattern

[@johncrabb806]

As a private pilot, I sincerely appreciate your efforts to make flying safer.

[@jonathonhinson2070]

When I hear "tear drop entry" I think an instrument procedure to establish yourself on a fix for an instrument hold. I appreciate your original and this follow up video.

[@AeroRamer]

I am with Jason. I do not use the word 'teardrop' in my radio calls. I indeed use '...entering the 45 L/R downwind...'.

[@stevespra1]

​@RetreadPhoto Using the word "teardrop" as a pattern entry is the confusing part. That's a foreflight term, not a procedure.

[@stevespra1]

@RetreadPhoto The term teardrop is an instrument procedure. The problem with entering the pattern with that maneuver is that there is none of the protections provided by the procedure. Doing a teardrop in visual conditions into a traffic pattern requires non-standard turns not designed for the phase of flight. Making a right-hand turn into the standard flow of 45 to downwind traffic is the problem.

[@Flying_Snakes]

Same.

[@JavaSQL]

Much better explanation Jason and I love you for the clarity. I still don’t agree that the word “teardrop” is the issue though. Rather, we just need more emphasis and instructions on flying out far enough perpendicular to the runway before initiating a descending turn to enter the 45 for the downwind. Nonetheless, I embrace the safety aspect of your fine point.

[@craighill2696]

This is a good point… to add to it, when you pass the pattern by two miles there is plenty of time to turn perpendicular no matter which direction it was started from…

[@craighill2696]

@RetreadPhotojason specifically mentions a situation he encountered and his experience is fairly common die to the poor understanding of this procedure…. Certainly “should” is the key word…

[@shindagin]

In Europe, when approaching the field from the quiet side of the pattern, aircraft enter the upwind leg, then join the crosswind over the departure end of the runway. This approach provides excellent visibility of the field, departing traffic, and traffic in the pattern for sequencing.

[@glennwatson]

He discussed that in the last video. Although they more do it midfield rather than the departure end. That is the other valid join the faa allows. I didn’t really understand the “teardrop” until now. Joining on a 45/oblique angle seems to offer similar advantages not so much downwind which I thought a teardrop was doing.

[@gmcjetpilot]

In USA you can enter anyway you like (not saying a good idea just FAR's don't forbid it). The FAR's only say if turns are to be made in the pattern they will be to left unless otherwise noted, and fly 1000 agl piston and 1500 agl turbine. The AIM is not regulatory but regulatory in nature gives recommended pattern entry (45 mid field) and recommended departure, straight out or 45 to the left. See AIM figures are 4-3-2 and 4-3-3. You can enter on upwind (off set to quiet side), or enter direct on cross wind, enter straight onto down wind, base or straight in on final.... Not illegal. However if there is a conflict, accident, violation, you will be blamed in court. Judges see the AIM "recommendations", as REGLATORY IN NATURE. So 45 to down wind mid field is the "Gold Standard". How you get into position is PILOT discursion and must be safe. There is no need to announce TEAR DROP, call it a 225 deg turn. No one cares. You should be outside the traffic pattern away from airport. By all means announce your position and altitude. It is a matter of everyone following the SAME RULES OF THE ROAD so we know what to expect. Is it efficient always, no. Say you are on "quite" side towards the approach end of the runway. To avoid violation of "If a turn is made must be to left" just maneuvering out of the pattern to make a 3 mile straight in would be "legal". If more towards to departure end enter direct on the cross wind, and fly downwind, base, final. Both not prohibited... BUT most expect you to fly MID FIELD Pattern +500 or more. Go out away from airport, turn around and enter 45 to midfield downwind.

[@glennwatson]

@@gmcjetpilot We do a mid-field (closer to the DER) join in Australia commonly, but our CASR Part 61/91 only rules is you must "give way/yield' when doing a straight in approach to traffic already in the pattern/circuit (which FAA only does on a advisory level). Our part 91 does state that you need to do radio calls for the safety of the flight but doesn't have any prescribed format, but there is a advisory on the standard calls that emulate the FAA ones, eg "lilydale traffic, archer romeo charlie romeo. joins left downwind runway 36, lilydale"

[@mattj65816]

This is just a far, far more sensical way to enter the pattern from the "active" end of the airport than doing the "cross the field and reverse course to enter 45 to the downwind" bit. You're looking straight into the pattern you're entering, you're not maneuvering in or near the pattern, and it is very easy to slot in behind other traffic by timing your turn to crosswind. We have a local airport that is vertically restricted, you can't cross 500' above pattern without violating the overlying class C, and from many directions entering upwind is the only way you can do it without having to time your slot way too far out.

[@gmcjetpilot]

@glennwatson I'll keep that in mind if flying down under mate. As a pilot and engineer I worked in Geelong Australia for 3 Mos to assist Australians as a Boeing Rep. Got time to visit Melbourne and Sydney (only one day in Sydney). Went to Sydney zoo. Loved Australia and the people. However disappointing to see a Tasmanian Devil in person at zoo. Looked like a rodant (but is a marsupial). I grew up with "Taz", a Looney Tunes cartoon character from Warner Brothers, very popular in the 1970's. Taz spun around like a tornado 🌪 (clockwise of course). Yes I expect to see a cartoon character. Ha ha. The other shock the big colorful money of many sizes. Not a fan. I do like the dollar coin, but 50 cent coin is rediculiously large and heavy. The other no thanks is British inspired mutton and organ meat 🥧 pies 😝 gross. Nice folks, beautiful country 👍. Now throw another shrimp on the Barbie and have another "tinny" of grog for me (not before flying of course).

[@JamminJaminK]

Great clarification, thank you. I learned more from this video than the original one.

[@jasonchipkin]

Alternatively, if it's not busy just cross the upwind (NOT departure leg) midfield at pattern altitude and enter the left downwind.

[@peterellison2220]

Yeah in Canada the standard circuit entry is to fly overhead the field for the mid left downwind. Very predictable and never had an issue

[@peterellison2220]

@RetreadPhoto if the aircraft is approaching from the side of the airport with the downwind leg, then we cross over the circuit at 500’ above circuit altitude, do a tear drop on the “upwind side”, then cross over for the mid left downwind. This is for uncontrolled airports. At controlled airports we join the circuit as ATC directs us

[@tyethescrybe3807]

what if some else (student) is doing an early go around, for what ever the reason, and is near pattern altitude at the same time? I don't get this concept and will always overfly midfield +500 and do the 45 entry to the downwind.

[@peterellison2220]

@@tyethescrybe3807 traffic on an early go around has to pay attention to traffic overflying the field and either pass behind them on level off early to maintain separation

[@jasonchipkin]

@RetreadPhoto 91.113 When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.

[@vr0ssi46]

Sounds like the problem isn’t the “procedure” but actually sloppy, unskilled pilots.

[@SoloRenegade]

the procedure is the problem too this will not work at busy echo airports. don't even try it.

[@johnkiger1123]

I see a bunch do a descending 270 into the downwind. 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@skysurferdude]

I think it’s both actually.

[@MarkMorgan-b3z]

I don’t see the point of this maneuver. If there is someone else entering on the 45 or already on downwind, why not just enter the up wind on a 45, then fly the pattern, any procedure that keeps everyone going the same direction , ie counter clockwise (for normal left traffic) seems like a better option.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@MarkMorgan-b3z exactly right. I do exactly as you describe all the time at busy echo. I NEVER cross the pattern mid field. I enter on teh side I came in on and it has proven FAR safer especially in busy airspace.

[@HollyWik]

Thank you for both videos. As a new pilot barely past 100 hours, I am hyper-focused on safety and always looking for ways to fly smarter. Your recommendation to overfly at 1,000 is solid and I will be adopting that. I will also confess I have also struggled with my "teardrop" entry (both not flying far out enough and once flying out so far I lost sight of the field), so I am actually relieved to drop this idea of an "ideal shape" and giving myself permission to fly farther out, uncouple my descent from my turn, and just focus on making a clean 45° entry to downwind. I appreciate it!

[@protomake1349]

It sounds like people just aren't doing it correctly. At the airport I did my PPL I was taught to overfly 500' above pattern perpendicular to the runway, then once well past the Downwind (1 mile offset from runway) then start the descent maintaining course to pattern altitude. Once at TPA then start the right teardrop, this will lead to you being in a perfect position to enter downwind at a 45 degree angle about 2.5 to 3 miles from the airport. At no time are you descending while turning. I don't like the idea of joining the crosswind as there might be an aircraft climbing up into me.

[@darrylday30]

Good idea!

[@terjehansen0101]

@RetreadPhoto There are a lot of old pilots with bad habits. That they've learned through wives-tales or "some guy" - or themselves. Just like car drivers, who had their driving lessons 50 years ago.

[@craigsanders6925]

I understood, and I was taught the "teardrop" as a student. But I was also instructed to fly 2-3 miles out and be at pattern altitude which I do when turning into the 45.

[@lamarethington]

I have only been Flight instructing for a mere one decade, not two, but I 100% agree with this video. For all you haters, so does the FAA. AC 90-66c does not mention teardrop. The Airplane flying handbook clearly states that when approaching from the up wind side of the airport pilots should announce the intention to cross over midfield at 500 feet above pattern. It also has a note about crossing at 1000' above pattern if turbine aircraft may be present. No mention of the word teardrop. This would not be a problem if it were being taught correctly. However, it is universally not being taught correctly. If your not 3sm past the runway at pattern altitude flying straight and level for a minute to get back to the downwind, then your doing it wrong. If you or your student are unable to adjust things so that your able to consistently work into the pattern without needing to reduce separation from those already in the pattern, your wrong. This is nothing to be embarrassed about, a good pilot is always learning, so humble yourself and listen to these more experienced instructors try and save your life.

[@jamespickens7281]

To borrow from another arena, "If you're explaining, you're losing". The key passage is between 3:45 and 3:55 in the video. If you do it wrong, of course it's dangerous! Teach it correctly. Communicate it correctly. Perform it correctly. Safe. If the problem is "In my experience, too many pilots don't do it correctly", that's not an indictment of the maneuver. Perhaps we need fewer incompetent pilots. DPE's...?!!! Perhaps we need instructors who know what the heck they're doing, how to teach the maneuver correctly and how to ingrain those correct procedures in students and Flight Review clients. I hate these " semantical crusades". "All pilots please report". Change for the sake of change. Nothing gained. Love your content, Jason!

[@jimallen8186]

Compliance for the sake of compliance… no thought to context and circumstance

[@healerf18]

Completely agree.

[@jacobroy8353]

100% agree. Quit letting crappy pilots slip by with crappy airmanship.

[@jimallen8186]

@RetreadPhoto search for “The Contrarian Aviator Sometimes Turns Right.” When you’ve read it, tell me how compliance has nothing to do with it. Daily Kos version has better comments with interesting thoughts though the Medium version has a little more in the introduction. Compliance will have you believe there is only one correct.

[@wicked1172]

@@jimallen8186 Compliance is for the sake of Conforming. If one is complying for the sake of complying they may not understand the reasons for their actions, or may not care. In this discussion I agree with @jamespickens7281.

[@iadcrjca]

You’re not wrong. Back “in the day”, it was called a 45. A Teardrop was a holding pattern entry, not a traffic pattern one. One issue we see today with this”teardrop” entry is, like you point out, we don’t know where this aircraft is going to really be. And on top of that, some of these aircraft in the pattern are flying patters so wide that an aircraft doing a “teardrop entry” can find themselves nose to nose with an aircraft flying bomber size patterns. It would be better if we left the tear dropping to the IFR guys, and stuck with the midfield crossover to join the downwind, or a standard 45 entry into the pattern.

[@marksainsbury2422]

I have just learned something and while that is very valuable, I think I was most impressed with this message: language and how we use it is not as simple as we often think (even in everyday usage). If we are not used to being very particular about our use of language, then that in itself is a vital skill to recognise and to actively cultivate. Precision in language and awareness of how what we say will be interpreted by others is very important. Congrats for taking feedback on board and expanding on the concept. Hopefully this is two lessons in one now!

[@mannypuerta5086]

As a long time CFI (1968) and retired professional pilot, I’m with you on this. This entry is a disaster waiting to happen.

[@satellitechaser]

Yo dudes, Those of you saying crossing mid-field and into the midfield downwind leg, you had better be sure you don't have an a/c on a longer downwind. That's a no bueno. If you trust yourself to clear that longer downwind area, I say good luck to you doing the midfield left turn into the downwind. I choose to do the overflight above PA, extend beyond (north in this instance) and then do the descent and turning onto the 45 at PA. We are talking about accident prevention. No need to rush things. The 45 entry gives you much more time to scan the entire downwind pattern for traffic.

[@ah0377]

You still have to clear that same area either way. I actually find it easier to clear traffic entering the downwind directly from a midfield crosswind because all the traffic is in front of me.

[@lechstryzewski9350]

@satellitechaser - AGREED 100%

[@MarkMorgan-b3z]

Agreed! Turning INTO oncoming traffic on the downwind ( when most pilots don’t fly far enough out) is nuts! Its like getting on the off ramp ! Keeping everyone going the same direction, ie down wind, on the downwind side of the pattern is better, IMO.

[@skysurferdude]

@@ah0377agree 1000%

[@StopRoguePilotsNow]

I assume you saw the midair this week that backs up your point and reiterates the safety risks of poor deliniation of entry

[@leighehrmann1285]

In Canada, we cannot join on the 45. You either descend to pattern (circuit) altitude on the inactive side, cross overhead and join perpendicular, or join straight in downwind.

[@xDefender11]

Yeah it just confuses things. I normally just cross mid-field and join the downwind.

[@peterellison2220]

@@sncy5303 you don’t descent into the pattern. We descend on the “upwind” side, that is the side of the airport across from the downwind leg. Search “tc uncontrolled circuit procedures” and it’ll show a picture

[@eds.173]

@@sncy5303 I don't think he meant descending into the pattern but rather descending to pattern altitude some distance out.

[@nottoolatetofly371]

There’s no ‘descending into the pattern (circuit in Canada)’. You do all the descending on the ‘non-pattern (circuit) side, away from the airport, then cross at pattern altitude midfield, perpendicular, and join the mid downwind - just like in the US, when this entry method is used.

[@darrylday30]

The 45 entry is a thing in Canada under certain conditions. In a MF area when airport advisory information is available: Aircraft may join the circuit pattern straight-in or at a 45˚ angle to the downwind leg or straight-in to the base or final legs. See TC Aim 4.5.2 (vi). If you’re talking to FSS (flight service) on the MF (mandatory frequency) and you’re getting an advisory, you can use these entries and expect others to be using them as well.

[@df0813]

Y'all instructors that just got their ticket last year shut up and just listen to this man. This bass ackwards industry has the least experienced instructors teaching new pilots, and a lot of instructors do it because there aren't all that many alternatives to build their experience that may fit their lifestyle. That gives instructors the responsibility to teach to the best of their abilities, and LEARN from the 20 year veterans of this field. Jason, thank you for this video. I've flown from non-towered airports exclusively from private to commercial, and this video (and the last one) made think about how sloppy some of my 45 entries were in the past and I didn't even realize it.

[@Noturmoney]

So you’re not a CFI

[@aeroviewnz9237]

In New Zealand, we descend on the non traffic side from 500 feet above the circuit altitude. To join the circuit, orbit the field in a left hand circuit, at 500 feet above the field, descend non traffic side within the length of the runway, then call "Joining down wind from the non traffic side" at circuit altitude.

[@jeremyfarley423]

I was on student solo at KLZU and the wind shifted. I took off from 7 and had the pattern to myself. Tower told me she was flipping the field and to make left crosswind and teardrop onto final runway 25. I had never heard "teardrop" before. my CFI never taught me "teardrop"!! Lucky for me that evening, I was on tower's watch and with a little common sense, I knew what she was trying to ask me to do. It was a new and fun experience that I will never forget.

[@mikestanzel1192]

OK, I’m not an ace pilot, but I never fly parallel and against the 45 degree entry while crossing midfield. I’ve never seen anyone else do it either. The last video suggested crossing mid field at pattern altitude and turning into the downwind. If someone else was just turning into the downwind from the crosswind or was already on it, you’ve got nowhere to go.

[@SoloRenegade]

yeah, talk about asking for midairs and fatal accidents....

[@MarkKelley-b1h]

You are 100 % correct . A 45 entry is known and easy to place the other airplanes position as a tear drop is inconsistant with too many varibles .

[@MarkZinkel]

Jason, you continue to inspire me to be a better CFI. Although I agree that you're being particular, being particular and understanding the finer points matters in aviation. I'll be changing the way I teach my students in the future because of these last few videos.

[@paragbatavia]

Our local FAA FAST folks came to our flying club - and explicitly asked us to *not* use the *phrase* teardrop when calling this maneuver for entry - they had no issue with properly using this entry pattern, but they hated that we all called it a teardrop entry, since that's technically an IFR hold entry only. Of course, they didn't have a great short alternative, but asked us to not call it a teardrop entry. Even though foreflight also labels it that way.

[@asho1735]

what's interesting is that if you picture 45° to the downwind as the IFR hold pattern inbound course, and you are flying perpendicular to the runway - the teardrop entry is the right choice. however I agree that NO ONE flies the VFR pattern with that kind of precision. In addition the IFR hold pattern entry method has nothing to do with traffic avoidance, it is just to minimize the angles of the turns. It's really not applicable for VFR flying. I hear aircraft "teardropping" all day long at a busy untowered field and when you look at the adsb track those "teardrops" are pretty random and way too close. Just fly over field at 1000 above TPA, go out 4 miles from center line and maneuver carefully to the 45 while announcing your position. forget the "teardrop" stuff.

[@paragbatavia]

@RetreadPhoto Our uncontrolled airport is in between two other airports (one towered, one uncontrolled) that both have heavy flight training ops. So we get the FAST folks coming by fairly often for various training topics as part of our monthly flying club meetings. This time it was to focus on pattern entry, and the whole teardrop thing was a part of that.

[@KenHerrmann]

From your previous video I had an opportunity to put your tips in practice. I think it was taught to me as a standard maneuver, when in reality it should be considered a safe way to cross to the pattern side, and then enter the pattern as you would normally.

[@lextrait]

I struggled with the previous video but this makes total sense. I understand now how the term teardrop can be confusing and actually pretty imprecise if we have a lot of possible interpretations.

[@SmittyPilot]

Thanks Jason for all you do for the aviation community

[@ArcticMayhem]

Thank you for putting this out there Jason. I've been the minority CFI in my area, fighting to eliminate the term "teardrop". Like you said, it's not the shape that is the issue, it's the language. Also, I see a lot of pilots "teardrop into the downwind" which is a dangerous, descending 270 into the downwind leg. Many times they don't get to TPA until actually in the downwind.

[@Catpanl]

There is a prescribed procedure. Fly out past the field 2 miles, descend to pattern, then turn 270.

[@Bill-iu7fn]

the first video was clear to me. I communicate my Altitude, Location , Intention (A.L.I.) well before entering the 45 left or right downwind

[@jamespowell1213]

Jason you’re spot on. Thanks for highlighting this issue. It is a refresher/reminder for me to fly accurately in the pattern when calling the teardrop entry. Don’t be dismayed by the naysayers. Great content..

[@BrianSchiff]

I'm with you, Jason. I have nearly been hit head-on, but for my awareness and ability to see the head-on traffic making a "teardrop" to the downwind. Pilots - call it what you want - it's a non-towered airport, but imagine that if you survive the mid-air collision, what will be your conversation with the NTSB and, more importantly, with the attorney in court who is suing you for carelessness and recklessness. BOTTOM LINE: The FAA recommends being 2 miles from the downwind leg on a 45-degree leg at pattern altitude. The FAA also tells us that the pattern can be up to 2 miles from the airport, and big airplanes do this. What else to they do? They fly a pattern at an altitude 500 feet above yours. (Think about that). So you'd better be on a 45-degree starting 4 miles (at least) from the airport. I'd prefer you use the common language -- 45-degree entry, but if you insist on saying "teardrop" -- at least be far enough away! I hope ForeFlight (and I believe they will) re-names and depicts that entry differently. Many old-schoolers won't know what "teardrop to the downwind" means -- and you can find many old-schoolers at non-towered airports. STAY SAFE!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

If no hills around airport, you can also enter on the Upwind Leg opposite the Downwind Leg. Plenty of time then to check the wind sock, other traffic taking off so you can join on the crosswind leg. Retired Aerobatics and EFATO CFI. Was that all the 1990's.

[@skysurferdude]

I commend Jason for addressing this topic and highlighting the inherent dangers involved when this procedure is performed with any “incapacity, carelessness or neglect.” Spend some time observing the pattern at any moderately busy (or busier) non-towered field and you will likely note a veritable fruit-salad of angles referred to as a “45 degree entry to downwind”. I would even suggest that it is only the most astute among us that accurately execute a midfield downwind entry at a 45 degree angle with adequate precision. This presumably simple procedure is actually a task that must be properly taught and practiced to proficiency. On top of this (quite literally), now add the other entry procedure: crossing midfield perpendicular to clear the vicinity, descending and then maneuvering via a 225 degree turn to position oneself to join the 45 degree for a midfield downwind. Given the fact that pilots of aircraft using either of these procedures are humans (many are likely students still honing their skills) flying in the wind, there will undoubtedly be variances in their ground tracks which cause them to stray from the desired ground tracks, creating ample opportunity for conflict, however well intentioned they may be or which terminology they use to describe their flight path. Entering the pattern at a non-towered field comes with some inherent risk. No entry procedure can completely mitigate the risk. I personally believe that this crossing, descending, turning around to join the 45 degree leg, exposes you to more risk than the alternative entry of crossing midfield at TPA to turn directly to downwind. Why? For one, in part, I believe the nearer to the airport a pilot is, the more vigilant he becomes with regard to his communications and see-and-avoid scanning technique. Secondly, when crossing midfield at TPA both pilots (you and the pilot joining on 45) are looking directly at the traffic pattern. You stand a much better chance of seeing and avoiding the aircraft entering on the 45 (that is broadcasting on the wrong frequency or not talking at all) as he will be in your field of view, rather than approaching to intercept your path at some obtuse angle. Additionally you will be in his field field view, increasing the likelihood that at least one of you will be aware enough to mitigate conflict should it arise. It seems like our Canadian and European friends share this perspective. Whichever course you choose to fly when joining the non-towered pattern, please perform it with precision and extreme vigilance.

[@davidvancina4478]

I think the key teaching points here are to 1) overfly perpendicular to the runway, 2) descend to pattern altitude, 3) THEN make the not-a-teardrop right turn to the 45. I'm pretty sure I've not paid sufficient attention to the descend-THEN-turn part of this in the past, so it's a good callout. (If that sequence is followed it seems the cited problems go away.)

[@novemberbravo3749]

Thanks for the clarification. I don’t think I’ve ever considered the conflict a poorly flown “tear drop” could create with someone else on the 45.

[@SoloRenegade]

keep in mind there can be multiple different pattern altitudes. 500ft for helicopters, 1000ft for GA, 1500ft for jets, etc.

[@EchoKilo]

I was taught the same thing by my instructor, “ overflying the field…right teardrop into the left downwind for 15…”

[@FougaFrancois]

For me the proper call is something like "10 miles out normal call" then, 2 miles away "airport, call sign, fly over 24 at midfield perpendicular 2000 and will turn to the 45 for 24 3 miles west, airport" , then a call when you are on the 45, the rest is normal. I am not native speaker, so, i trend to add too much, the pressure when it is busy push you to shorten, but it is in fact, this is when you have to say more.

[@thomasaltruda]

If you are calling it “10 miles out” without specifying a direction, you might as well not make the call. A better way is to say “10 miles to the west” or east or north west.. ect..

[@tedgarcia]

I have never liked the teardrop language for the pattern entry - largely because I spent so much time figuring out holding pattern entries for my Instrument rating where the teardrop is a valid entry into a hold. Now I realize words can carry different meanings sometimes but it just kept it cleaner in my head that you enter traffic patterns on the 45 and holding patterns have teardrop, direct, and parallel. Different patterns, different traffic issues, different entry. And since a traffic pattern at a non-towered airport is such a hot spot for traffic convergence, I much prefer a one way in, one way out methodology.

[@lowdowndan]

I report that I am maneuvering to enter the downwind on a 45. I make sure to be >3 miles away from the airport and state my distance away from the airport and the direction (e.g. 4 miles south of the airport) while I orient my plane and altitude to enter the downwind on a 45 entry.

[@mhilderbrand7693]

Having some situational awareness of the traffic at a given airport helps. If I am able, I will cross over midfield and go directly to the downwind seventy percent of the time. If traffic flow is too heavy, I will just stay high and overfly the field until 5 miles out (on the correct side of pattern) and announce my position and intentions at that point.

[@wyatt92563]

When I’m flying back to F70 from KAVX, I’m entering the pattern from the non-pattern side. I always call 10 miles out declaring that I will be passing over midfield, joining the left downwind entering at a 45, runway 18. I will make this call at 2 miles out and when over mid field. I will now start using the term ‘passing over midfield perpendicular’. I’m also going to have my altitude over 500’ above PA, just in case there’s a high performance/turbine aircraft at that altitude, just to be safe. I really appreciate AC-90-66C. I wish more aviators would reference it for their pattern entries.

[@grimlobo12]

If the shape itself is fine (like you said), the language/name is changed, but people still continue to fly it improperly then the problem still hasn’t been addressed

[@YaroslavNechaev]

In the case that you've described in the beginning, where you've almost collided with another aircraft doing a "teardrop" maneuver, you would have been at fault (also dead) the same way as the other aircraft. If you hear that a person is entering the pattern at the same time as you - you gotta be damn sure that you either (i) see that aircraft, (ii) clarify relative position on the radio or you gotta bail out and fly away. Same is true for the other aircraft. I would never approach a pattern unless I'm 100% sure where everyone is. Just because you approach the pattern at the 45 to the downwind doesn't give you any right of way or make your entry any more or less predictable than the person doing the "teardrop". The issue here is not the procedure (or lack thereof) the problem would have been lack of communication and the lack of visual scan. Indeed, in your first example if that pilot were to "enter" the 45 to the downwind line as you suggested - he would have been in a right turn, left wing up merging into you. It's the same exact problem but now at least people won't blame you for flying a "wrong" teardrop, so I guess you'll get that going for you (but you'll still be dead). I find that people somehow think that they get a moral highground and are immune to midair collisions if they just follow their interpretation of AIM and bully everyone else to agree with them. This is not the case and the main problem here is not minor semantics of a pattern entry. Rather we need to put more emphasis on see-and-avoid, improve pilots situational awareness skills, and outright ban flying without the radio. It's almost 2025 folks if you don't wanna have an electrical system, fine, buy a freakin handheld, don't be a hazard.

[@brentsheldon8667]

I generally don't over fly the field because sometimes we have parachuting, and it doesn't have a warning that shows on forflight. So I have gotten in the practice always entering on a 45.

[@JoseRivera-lt2cc]

Believing in the concept of always ‘willing’ to learn, I am forced to rethink the accuracy of my teardrop procedures. I use several resources in debriefing my flying, but I don’t recall ever verifying that my teardrop entry was initiated precisely ‘midfield and perpendicular’ to the runway’. As always, I appreciate your experienced insight. Thanks for the reminder.

[@darrylday30]

I just finished reading, ‘Understanding the Mythical “Teardrop” Traffic Pattern Procedure’. It’s amazing how a few small errors on a diagram can lead to so much misunderstanding. There’s an excellent FAA scale diagram included in the essay that graphically shows the written requirements. Perhaps Jason could include this diagram in a future video.

[@kurtheil439]

I am sure you have covered a great deal on traffic patterns but I want to add that the depiction of the teardrop entering onto the downwind also can cause a problem with a departing aircraft following recommended guidance to depart the pattern depending on how far they go out. Have a lot of students in my area taught to turn crosswind and depart the pattern right through the 45 pattern entry. Asked a local CFI and he thought that was the way to do it! just a "wow" for that one.

[@SoloRenegade]

yeah, this teardrop BS is going to get people killed. I fly into a lot of busy Echo airports and this is extremely dangerous.

[@flyvxy]

Well said, in my humble opinion. I don't use the word and more importantly I don't perform that maneuver. Cross mid-field direct is what I do if coming from the "quiet side" of the pattern. Otherwise a normal entry at 45 into the downwind with plenty of calls starting 10 miles out.

[@hillcrestannie]

I agree the term and maneuver of the tear drop can be dangerous. I’ll actually overfly the runway and make the call that I’m going to fly my present heading 3 miles from runway then turn back to airport to enter traffic pattern. To me 3 miles is a safe distance. My call, Nxxxx 1 mile west overflying runway at 2500’ will continue east for 3 miles then turn back to airport for left downwind to 19. Then as I approach the pattern I announce entering left downwind for 19. At this point I would be happy if pilots would make radio calls !

[@craighill2696]

100% agree , FAA wants us to “manuever to enter the 45” and more specifically this maneuver starts above the pattern altitude and the entry must occur at least two miles outside the pattern. And yes words matter….. again , cross airport 500 above All patters, pass by at least two miles , then manuever to enter on the 45…. (Make sure you descent to pattern is outside of the 45, is controlled, and safe from all collision hazards.

[@glennwatson]

I sometimes fly in the U.S. usually with an instructor but overseas pilot. I definitely kinda agree with Jason just due to the fact the terminology had me thinking until this video thinking you tear drop onto downwind. A 45 degree overhead join makes it much more explicit

[@craighill2696]

One commenter mentioned that improving our teaching of this subject will help… and to add to it, when you pass the pattern by two miles there is plenty of time to turn perpendicular no matter which direction it was started from…

[@dzurisintube]

Jason, I listened to both your last video and your podcast on the issue and in both cases you mention that both the FAA and your personal teaching indicates that the alternative to this maneuver is to "enter on the dead side at pattern altitude, overfly the airport, and enter the downwind by folding into traffic". In your description of the flight that you said initiated this conversation with your daughter you said that you were "approaching auburn at pattern altitude to enter downwind for runway 7". Given the sensitivity around the whole concept now, I do wish that you had made abundantly clear that you had just previously executed the overflight of the airport above pattern altitude (2+ miles) followed by a return on the 45 because your language (which I agree matters) makes it seem as if you were "approaching the airport at pattern altitude to enter downwind for runway 7". Anyway, thanks for following up...I'm sure it's not the last we hear of this in the community.

[@audiotek103]

Also, it took a bit to find the link you mention in the video for the upcoming webinar. I was thinking it would be mentioned as a separate link. I tried both of the ones mentioning poscast and webinars. One takes you to the page for the geound school app, the other for your podcast, but neither take you to a page for that soecific webinar. After a few minutes I did eventually find it on the ground school page after clicking on the separate webinar link there.

[@RaceMentally]

I tear dropped in while crossing mid field meanwhile the bonanza 500 below me made left traffic. Worked out great 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Phat776Tiger]

Thank you for the great explanation of how to properly perform this entry. Now if we could only convince folks of the dangers of a long, straight-in approach to an uncontrolled airport, especially at high speed, we might be able to prevent further fatal midair collisions like that which occurred at Watsonville.

[@Boomerxl2-qu9vt]

Jason I’m with you on this one, I don’t understand why these pilots are confused calling the 45* to the down wind entry a teardrop entry, I learned it that way over three decades ago and that is how it should be called, teardrop for me an instrument procedure involving an instrument approach.

[@josephroberts6865]

The only way that so-called tear drop entry is proper is after you overfly the runway toward the traffic pattern side you continue outbound, well away from the downwind leg which could be large for a private jet before making the course reversal commonly called the teardrop and establishing traffic pattern altitude again well outside the downwind leg. Establish the 45 degree track to the midfield downwind at traffic pattern altitude with landing light on, make appropriate radio calls to potential traffic and establish whether you are number 1, #2 and so on and coordinate with other traffic as appropriate. It’s much easier to just circumnavigate the field and establish the 45 degree entry.

[@xplayman]

This provided some important context missing from the first video, but those angled crossings seem made up by pilots around you. The documentation from the FAA shows a perpendicular midfield crossing, which is why ForeFlight probably draws it as a perpendicular midfield crossing, so I've only ever done it and seen it as a perpendicular midfield crossing. We have over a dozen flight schools that use this one airport by us in NY and when they say "teardrop into the 45" no one is confused. Even if they only say "teardrop" we all know what is going on. I have never seen anyone fly over midfield at any angle other than 90 degrees to the runway (sure it may not be perfect +/- 10 degrees) when announcing that they are flying over midfield for the teardrop entry.

[@spatstat435]

In Australia this manoeuvre is not permitted, because the aircraft turns in the opposite direction to the circuit and descends on the active side of the circuit. 45 degree entry to downwind is allowed if you're already established on the 45 degree track when you arrive in the vicinity of the airfield.

[@mikevonbertouch]

As an Australian pilot flying in Australia, the ‘teardrop’ entry is not a term or indeed really an action. If approaching from the dead side then a midfield crosswind at circuit altitude is the norm. If a lot of traffic about then you have options to join upwind or normal crosswind for spacing. All rules followed, no trying to judge when you’re 3nm past the runway to turn back, no turning blind back toward the runway. And it’s faster and easier as you join from the direction you approach the aerodrome (/airport). A “teardrop”, if you’re going to fly the additional miles and take a bit more time, perhaps should be talked about more in conventional terms of overflying above circuit altitude to 3nm past the aerodrome then turn, descend and join from the active side as you normally would, and traffic in the circuit would be expecting. Just a thought

[@AlyssaM_InfoSec]

I can throw a bigger incendiary device into the room, I generally don't use this entry to the pattern at all. My preference is the overfly and direct 45 entry. Why? Because the "teardrop" maneuver puts you belly-up to the traffic you're supposed to be looking for both in the pattern and entering on the pattern-side 45. If you're in a high-wing, it's even worse because you've got your wings blocking visibility to those areas through the course of the turn as well. Crossing over the field and directly entering the pattern, you have clear vision of the pattern and that opposing 45 entry path all the way until you make your short 45 degree turn onto the down wind (as opposed to a long sweeping 270 degree turn). Just my thoughts, not a CFI and only having 800 hours as a pilot so take that for what it's worth.

[@gregpdx]

Jason - You're 101% right.

[@jakew9887]

Great presentation.Thanks

[@ebro9317]

I couldn't agree more. The term "teardrop" entry to an aircraft pattern has only recently appeared and many experienced pilots like me (20K+ hours and 3K small aircraft) don't know what to expect from those who use the term. Where is this "teardrop" going to be? How about: "crossing overhead the airport at (X) altitude to enter downwind on a 45", as you suggest? Everyone knows what that means.

[@davidpinon2070]

I'm glad to hear that you and your daughter were able to safely land at Auburn. If we were able to get ForeFlight to change or remove the term "teardrop" today, what would actually be different? What radio call should pilots make to inform others of their intentions when using this maneuver to enter the pattern?

[@usmcmech96]

I almost always fly a direct left turn onto downwind. Simple, quick, predictable, safe. Flying out and back to the 45 just wastes time and leaves you in the high risk area of the traffic pattern. Also making radical turns while looking for other traffic is prime distraction potential.

[@davidklassen2805]

I have never heard of someone tear dropping into the downwind, I was always taught to tear drop into the 45 to the downwind but I see the danger in someone doing that. When I fly and I plan on doing this maneuver, I try to be very clear about my intentions. For example I will say, I am 2 miles west of the field, I’ll be crossing over midfield and doing a teardrop to enter a 45 to the left downwind runway 17

[@healerf18]

Really appreciate your content Jason. I've followed you for years. But I feel like I'm missing something here. Are you saying to perform the "tear drop" maneuver properly (cross mid-field at 90 degrees and above pattern altitude, extend and descend to pattern altitude a couple of miles past the pattern, then enter the downwind on the 45, but don't report that you're doing a "tear drop"? Or are you recommending another approach when there's too much traffic to directly enter the down wind from the off side of the airport.

[@tomdchi12]

This objection - that people often don't cross mid-field perpendicular to the runway - makes a lot of sense. Maybe because I'm a noob still trying to do everything by the book, maybe I am an "ace pilot" (laughing emoji) but it seems to be an obviously bad idea to cross mid-field other than perpendicular. It also seems pretty easy to do with the slightest planning ahead and care. Isn't that part of the whole point to set you up to 1) avoid the standard elevation traffic pattern, 2) get a view of the airport and conditions, 3) travel off to the side of the runway/traffic pattern itself, so that you can then, clear of the pattern, 4) descend and 5) enter the downwind at traffic pattern altitude, near mid-field at a 45 degree angle to the downwind leg to see and merge with traffic that may be in the pattern. People doing dumb, lazy stuff is the problem, not the world "teardrop." Nonetheless, there are clearly people who hate the use of the term in this context (some for well-explained reasons like this, others... for less clear reasons...) Specifically when it comes to radio calls, I have zero problem NOT using "teardrop" in that context on the radio. (But when casually describing the shape? Yeah, it's a useful term for describing that 225 degree turn..)

[@JasonRosewell]

This is a reason I appreciate the Canadian circuit entry procedures. We always approach from the “dead side”. If your route has you approaching from the active, then you’re 500’ above circuit, cross midfield, turn around in the descent, and cross again to join the mid downwind. Essentially, dead side approach = cross mid field and enter the downwind. Active side approach = cross twice. No angles to calculate and no blind spot. Until you get a cirrus pilot on the 15 mile straight in of course!

[@darrylday30]

MF area when airport advisory information is available: Aircraft may join the circuit pattern straight-in or at a 45˚ angle to the downwind leg or straight-in to the base or final legs. See TC Aim 4.5.2 (vi)

[@JasonRosewell]

@@darrylday30 yep… MF when advisory info available. I’ve entered straight in at an MF for sure. Not the Transport Canada’s instructions for an ATF unless I’ve missed something (possible). Were we talking about MF’s?

[@darrylday30]

@@JasonRosewellThat’s correct, MF (with advisory) is good for all entries while ATF is limited to the midfield cross entry and straight to downwind entry if clear. If you’re taking to FSS, you’re on a MF, you’ve got advisory and you’ve got more options for entry.

[@JasonRosewell]

@@darrylday30 sooo…. Yeah. Glad we’re clear on that 😆

[@darrylday30]

@@JasonRosewell Redundancy is both of my middle names.😀

[@fredgordon8481]

Jason I don't use the word teardrop I over fly the airport above pattern and enter the 45 or downwind at pattern altitude looking for traffic all the time

[@JustinJackson11]

This issue isn't the "teardrop;" it's the issue of people flying it wrong, not crossing perpendicularly across the runway, and waiting to begin descending straight ahead to pattern altitude until they are beyond the traffic pattern. I always taught my students to verbalize that they were entering on a 45 to join left downwind, never that they were tear-dropping to the left downwind.

[@Romanellochw]

My instructor told me it's perfectly OK to do the teardrop but to cross above TPA and then turn while decending to TPA then enter the 45 at TPA.

[@PghGameFix]

We have a few uncontrolled airports local that have requested "No Teardrops" because they are busy. (and don't want people turning into traffic) So.... it is a mid-field entry to downwind. But this is why we make our radio calls. The call in this case is " xxx Trafic, Cessna xxx flying over midfield to a downwind entry for runway xx, XXX Trafic" This way we know where to look for that trafic. We will look over the airport and not out, and away from the airport. Regardless..... make calls, and keep looking around in busy, uncontrolled airspace. Now, sometimes we have to make allowances. I was overflying an airport to look at the wind sock. (no weather at the field) I also heard 2 other planes coming in. I wound up making a turn over the departure end to enter the downwind for the runway I chose to use. Because I was overly detailed with my calls (some CFI's may not have liked it since they want it short and sweet) the closer of the other 2 aircraft could see me (knowing exactly where I was) and said he would do a 360, and be #2 behind me. And the 3rd was a Cirrus, and made a 6 mi straight in to the runway I called. LOL.

[@acirinelli]

I heard someone make a call “overhead entering a right teardrop entry for the left downwind” … that’s not confusing to process

[@johnsealey3990]

1:42 flip side of that situation - three times in the last 18 months i have had someone descend into the downwind almost directly on top of me, in one case about 100 yards off my nose. So why is that better?

[@geekmug]

FAR 91.126(b) "When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace- (1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right" You MUST fly out far enough after crossing midfield to argue that you are no longer approaching the airport to land. If you are flying out that far, then I shouldn't need to know about it. If you are doing it so close to the airport that you think other planes need to know about it, then are you too close to the airport and you need to keep flying straight until you no longer think you are doing anything interesting.

[@lamarethington]

Also, calls with the word teardrop in them tend to be unnecessarily long. All I say is, transition midfield 1800 eastbound. Once I turn around I make another call, 3 miles east 1300 feet joining the 45 left downwind...

[@coldnebo]

I don’t have an issue with getting rid of teardrop pattern entry - I agree with everything Jason is saying - but the AFM literally had teardrop pattern entry a couple years ago, so I understand why it’s still out there. FWIW, in the UK they join the downwind flying across midfield as shown in the first video. They don’t teach teardrop either afaik.

[@1dullgeek]

Assuming the correct flight path of 2 (or more miles passed the field) and then maneuvering into a 45 to the downwind, what call do you make? "Stanly traffic, N12345 overflying midfield at 2700. Will enter a 45 for the left downwind for runway 22L"

[@1dullgeek]

@RetreadPhoto So what should people do and say to be clear? Simply saying "don't say this" "don't do this" is not enough. What is TFP suggesting as the safer behavior and phraseology?

[@warren5699]

The problem isn't the terminology but a misunderstanding on how to do the maneuver which I think is primarily due to the diagram in the Handbook showing the 225 degree turnback too close to the downwind. I don't think it will be resolved without a change in the overhead diagram and probably needs a horizontal perspective added like there is for the landing approach. But anyway, appreciate your efforts.

[@kevindennis9227]

This is a very common maneuver at the local airport. Lots of student pilots and seasoned ones do not do this teardrop entry correctly. I have seen and been involved with near misses due to the improper pattern work that is becoming way too common. The biggest thing for me is that the student pilots are not always doing what they are telling the CTAF they are doing. I've been on downwind from crosswind and have had 2 different students report a teardrop into the 45 but they are turning directly into the downwind. And these are not solo students. Too many new CFIs out there that are not paying attention. Thank god for ADSB and my complete distrust of other people.

[@hu5116]

I agree Language matters, a lot! Say what you mean and mean what you say. “Teardrop” is just too ambiguous, and anything ambiguous is an aerial hazard. How about “crossing the runway perpendicularly westward from the east and the going to enter the pattern going northward”. With addition of altitude that pretty much nails your position and flight path.

[@darrylday30]

Thanks Jason! The teardrop thing isn’t a thing here in Canada and I was a bit confused when I saw it on FF. I’l be listening and watching for this the next time I’m flying in the US.

[@audiotek103]

This has been a great discussion item and has provided a lot of content for thinking through safety of flight, how to instruct, and making sure pilots know exactly where we are and what we are plannig on doing. I guess to be explicut, when entering the pattern with other aircraft already in the pattern (so probably shouldn't do a direct entry to downwond), I could say that Im crossing midfield at [500-1000 above traffic pattern] heading 2 miles north then right turn to enter the 45 for left downwind 9 . That seems a bit long but lets people know exactly what Im doing. Thoughts?

[@dh-flies]

I never use the “Teardrop” approach. Normally I over fly midfield and simply turn downwind. I also announce my intentions. That's how you avoid pattern issues. ALL PILOTS HAVE THEIR RADIOS TUNED TO THE RIGHT FREQUENCY AND FOLLOW THE SIMPLE RULES THEY LEARNED DURING INSTRUCTION!

[@scottruchek]

Another excellent video. Thank you!

[@josbren8943]

Well said. I also would prefer the word tear drop not be used. Most pilots don’t go out far enough to be at pattern altitude before entering the 45.

[@robertdouglass1703]

The comment that was highlighted is important to point out. That guy was saying he knew exactly where the aircraft would be, after the teardrop, he would be in the downwind. Not necessary that is how the teardrop is supposed to work.

[@ItsAllAboutGuitar]

ADSB is the solution. I can see everyone around the airport and I don't care what they say. Standard arrival and departure procedures to the airport are also a solution. Some airports even have unwritten rules. For instance at my home airport it's pretty common to stay north of the lake on departure and south of the lake on arrival. At another it's from the south cross over the shopping mall enter the downwind on a 45, from the north cross over the dam, cross mid-field, enter the downwind.

[@ItsAllAboutGuitar]

@RetreadPhoto GET IT! Your life and the life of others is worth a couple thousand bucks or whatever the cost was. I don't remember, so it's not that much (unlike my $800 beacon)

[@TheFretman2]

I just always cross midfield and do a left turn into the down wind. I can see traffic better that way as my airplane is a high wing Cessna 172.

[@cgtbrad]

I prefer this as well. I don't like making steep turns so close to the airport. I don't like being low so far from the airport. I don't like burning extra gas.

[@theangrypc4642]

@@cgtbrad The 45 entry does not come close to a steep turn if performed correctly. I'll spare you the math, but assuming the maneuver is flown in accordance with AC90-66C's preferred entry procedure. Then you will fly about 3 - 3.5 miles from the field before beginning to maneuver unto the 45. If you made a normal 30 degree banking turn, then you would roll out on an ~83 degree entry, not quite a 45. If you wanted to maintain a bank all the way to the 45, then it would require a tad less than 5 degrees of bank (assuming no wind). Far from a steep turn. Certainly fair that you don't want to get low while ~3.5 miles from the airport. If terrain or obstacles (trees, mountains, water, or buildings) preclude safe low altitude maneuvering, then this is certainly a case where the alternative entry shines. Another note about time. This maneuver ends up creating a track of about 7.5 miles. At 90 knots, you will be in the downwind in about 5 minutes. Excuse to fly a plane for an extra 5 minutes doesn't sound bad to me.

[@reyesben]

The FAA doesn’t teach Jason’s “Lindbergh Reference” but that’s OK and Teardrop isn’t? It’s forever been described the maneuver to enter the downwind on the 45° after crossing over head. Changing the name in Foreflight won’t change the mistake you are afraid of. The point you made clear is that you should finish decent before the start of the “maneuver” (vague term) to enter the 45.

[@zn105]

One of the comments said if everyone is announcing properly then I will know where everyone is. Not Everyone will have a radio, not advisable, but happens like a cub with no power.

[@LarryPortouw]

You're spot on.

[@kohersh]

Agreed!!!! 45 entry, well outta the pattern and not at turboprop and jet TPA

[@110knotscfii]

At least 2+ miles prior to turning inbound. Otherwise, you’ll end up head to head with downwind traffic. I prefer the overhead approach.

[@110knotscfii]

We don’t always agree, but on this one, I’m with you 100%