The TRUTH About Compass Turns - Learning to Fly Old School Flight Instruments Like a Magnetic Pro!

[@iNcog_AoE]

Not only are those turns via compass so precise, the aircraft is trimmed perfectly. Altitude didn’t move at all. Great flying

[@TheFinerPoints]

🙏🙏🙏

[@tomdchi12]

I've been trying to get this into my head in abstract terms. Great to see those side-by-side videos of this happening in real time!

[@jb-qi8fz]

My training in a J-3 in 1960 was with a wet compass only. Exclusively navigating this way laid a solid foundation for climbing up the ladder of more modern equipment . I think it should be emphasized more in todays flight training.

[@robinrother1799]

Timed turns work for me. Leaving Guernsey, I was climbing through FL090 in IMC, hand flying. ATC said that if I strayed any further east, I'd be in a danger area. During that moment of confusion, the Garmin screens developed red crosses and then went black. I had a standby attitude indicator, altimeter, and compass. The reality is that ATC, once they knew the problem, were very helpful. All turns were on the level. And descents were in a straight line. Timing the required turns worked out just fine and was followed by finessing once the compass settled again. I was back in VMC at 2500 feet.

[@jmann8842]

Great video for students and CFII applicants

[@LTVoyager]

My instrument instructor taught me to use timed turns when flying on the compass. Works great and takes the lead/lag computation out of the question. It is pretty easy to calculate a standard rate turn based on time and then roll out level and check with the compass. To me, this is far more accurate than compass only turns, particularly in turbulence when the motion of the compass combined with lead/lag makes in nearly useless where I live at 42 degrees latitude. I am seldom off by more than 5 degrees which is easily corrected with a second short timed turn.

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

Yes, I am a student pilot for Private Pilot doing checkride prep and CFI is putting me under the hood, covers up my heading and attitude indicator. So I am only flying by instruments, and he has me turn to different heading using the compass. I was doing a standard rate turn and Flew to my north heading and when I turned out on N on the compass, I was at 30 degrees Ugg. I was off somewhere. I am going to have practice this a bit under the hood flying by instrument.

[@MalcolmRuthven]

I learned to fly a long time ago, mostly in Champ 7AC planes with only a mag compass for heading control. I never bothered with lead/lag, but instead used times turns. Of course after that the heading often needed to be adjusted. Once you determined the displayed mag heading you need to fly, it was essential to hold that heading very closely so you could determine (by looking at the ground and sectional chart) if it needed to be adjusted (due to change in wind, etc).

[@scottpatterson4105]

In '75 did a complete comprehensive training flight at night with fogles on and nothing but compass navigation in the pattern during heavy air force pattern practice. Never used the compass afterward other than cross checking the cdi.

[@jannepeltonen2036]

Yay, I was just flying yesterday and trying to remember how to actually use the compass most efficiently :D (I remember I had been told in primary training that the lag/lead will be smallest at easterly and westerly directions, the tip was that it was easiest to stabilize on an easterly or a westerly heading because there won't be lag/lead.) Will be practising this the next time!

[@tedgarcia]

Love the little dig on Track Up for aviators who don't need to know where they are....North Up always!

[@gerardmoran9560]

Blast from the past! My CFI made me calculate a lead heading to account for a smooth rollout onto the assigned heading. Never had to do one in decades of flying, but like turns around a point, it builds basic skills. Cheers

[@thebadgerpilot]

Maybe it’s just how my brain is wired, but I find timed turns easier to do when I’m practicing partial panel opposed to trying to remember lag/lead and by how much. But this is a good additional tool to have

[@ssmith7779]

Very helpful elucidation of this maneuver!

[@TheFinerPoints]

Glad it was helpful!

[@neependse]

This one was a great one … I know I have posted nuances on some other videos, so wanted to let you know … this one is a good one!

[@gol3tron]

Continuously impressed, Jason. Nice video.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Much appreciated!

[@LarryBillHomes]

Nice video Jason. Will you discuss that acceleration errors are due to revised CG of the compass card caused by the tilt caused by magnetic lines not located at the equator? This concept helped me understand the mag compass much better. I didn't find this explanation in your ground school. I watched a video that explained this completely. Let me know if you want the link.

[@LarryBillHomes]

Eating some crow here. You do cover magnetic dip in the "Navigation-Flying the Magnetic Compass" section of your ground school!

[@scottbeyer101]

Thanks Jason. Funny, while I had to learn about the compass lead/lag for the written, I was never instructed on how to actually fly/navigate via the compass. Nor did it come up on the checkride. TIL.

[@kaasmeester5903]

My CFI went over it once during a flight, mainly to demonstrate the effect (which was very noticable). We practised making a few turns on the compass, takes getting used to, but if you are navigating then I suppose over / undershooting a turn is not a huge deal and you just correct for it.

[@darrylday30]

I’m studying for the IFR written. This was very helpful.

[@TheFinerPoints]

You should get our app!

[@epiren]

Every time I see a video about the compass, I am reminded of a movie where the dude is driving in the outback. He is heading in the wrong direction because he had his tin cup up on the dashboard next to the compass. I wonder if more electromagnetic-intense equipment messes with the old school compasses more than the old school pump and gyro equipment?

[@johnopalko5223]

Any time anything is done that would change the magnetic signature of the aircraft the compass should be recompensated and swung. You read the magnetic deviation off the correction card and you're in business.

[@jamostew]

How about a video about North-up vs Track-up? Enough with the winks and grins, let's get into it! To be clear, I am a N-up preferring student but must fly Track-up during training due to my CFII's preference. As for the video, great example that filled a KZbin void. Bravo!

[@mostafametwally1]

Thanks. what happens if you are turning south from a northerly to a less northerly heading ? Say if you were turning from 350 to 290, would you overshoot the 290 because you are turning south or would you undershoot because 290 is still a northerly heading?

[@notsoancientpelican]

Plenty of instrument flying was done with needle ball airspeed and wet compass in the thirties.

[@NorthwestAeronaut]

Thanks for the “track up” gouge lol. It’s a constant battle trying to get other students and instructors to just teach NORTH UP! lol.

[@studentpilotlookinahh]

Im having trouble holding a turn in standard rate and maintaining altitude. My airplane has a G500 with ASI, ALT, AH, and a MC on standby. When I do turns based on the g500 I get them within 10° but when I do partial panel, I have to use a specific bank angle to hope that I am at standard rate. Maintaining altitude based on the G5 and stby instrument is a pain for me. Any tips and tricks would help thanks.

[@cyberfiche]

Wow! Magic!

[@Hunator]

If you want to find a new appreciation for the magnetic compass, try to fly instruments on a glider, especially if you fly without an artificial horizon or DGI - only with a rate-3 turn indicator, magnetic compass, speed indicator, altimeter, and VSIs. Flying this EASA CLOUD RATING for gliders was a great school and also fun to do. And if you wonder; yes, it's legal in Europe. ;-)

[@dlsmallenginerepair]

Instead of calling it pulling it in, I remembered it as pull you're tail around to the heading. ( I'm still a student pilot so hope it makes sense) 😀

[@TheFinerPoints]

That sounds confusing to me ... but whatever works for you consistently is something I'd be fine with

[@glennwatson]

All good except you got it all the wrong way around. ONUS and SAND I believe. Overshot north, understood sound. South acceleration, north deaccelerating :) Us southerners making your life difficult :) (southern hemisphere compass navigation is inverse)

[@TheFinerPoints]

hahaha 😳😳😂

[@Fly_The_Sky]

I am on the fence about the mag compass. I personally think it's junk(Day time sure, night IMC. Forget about it.). In the middle lats it's fine(sort of) outside of that, forget about it.

[@triboarder06]

Love the Track up comment...haha. I just don't understand people using that. I't North Up folks lol

[@TheFinerPoints]

🙌🏻

[@davidbsac]

I teach and prefer Heading up. That keeps the left/right orientation of things on the ground correct. North up puts left/right backwards if you're headed southerly.

[@Freeze-O]

I’m not a pilot, so I’m not surprised this makes no sense to me, but this makes no sense to me. Why are the compass and the heading indicator different?

[@kene8895]

Great video again Jason. Sure wish your ground school was available for windows and android.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Thanks! Have you considered an iPad for flying?

[@kene8895]

No, not now, because it's the learning that's far more important than venturing into other technology for flight training and beyond.@@TheFinerPoints

[@davidbsac]

You might as well get the iPad. You’ll need it for ForeFlight. I don’t know a single professional pilot who doesn’t use ForeFlight.

[@kene8895]

Monopolies are not for me plus there are great platforms doing the same thing on Android and versions of all EFBs should be made available as such.@@davidbsac

[@annn.3615]

✈️🧡✈️

[@aaronhammond7297]

You went back to the long repetitive intro rather than deleting it entirely? We're subscribed, we're watching, you don't need to tell us who you are for 30 seconds each time.

[@TheFinerPoints]

And for the new folks?

[@LTVoyager]

It isn’t that hard to hit the 10 second skip ahead three times on my iPad.

[@aviatortrucker6285]

When it comes to flying the compass, I’m lost. I’m probably just an old magnetic dip.

[@TheFinerPoints]

HAHA, you can't be lost after this video! Come on man! LOL

[@aviatortrucker6285]

@@TheFinerPoints Here’s a challenge. Fly an NDB approach with only a turn coordinator and the compass. Did it in a Redbird Sim.

[@Parr4theCourse]

Pass….🤣😂🤣

[@MrAlwaysBlue]

This is nonsense. For VFR flying, you don't consider lag/lead if you just have a compass. You estimate turn using a visual reference point. When you level wings look at compass. You should be within +/- 10 degrees. Make fine correction to get on desired heading.

[@tdkeyes1]

You lost me on "leads"and "lags." Please define what you mean by this.

[@TheFinerPoints]

The compass leads the turn to the south. Meaning as the heading of the airplane moves through the horizon the compass will indicate headings ahead of it.

[@arip9234]

@@TheFinerPoints​​⁠Thanks the clear words. I wasn’t sure what lead/lag means. So when turning North the compass lags and will show a headings before it

[@LTVoyager]

Lead means the compass gets to the heading before the airplane gets to the same heading. Lag means the compass is behind the airplane and thus the airplane gets to the heading before the compass does. This is due to the construction of the compass and most private pilot instruction books have an illustration that shows why this happens. And I think at least one FAA publication shows it also.

[@danielreuter2565]

Wait wait wait... You're talking smack about north up now?? The only people who don't know where they are are the track up people 😎

[@TheFinerPoints]

No! Did I get that backward? I was talking smack about TRACK UP ... or at least I thought I was

[@danielreuter2565]

@@TheFinerPoints that's what I thought your position was! Ok so we're agreed that North up is the best and track up is inferior potassium. Phew now I can sleep easy.

[@LTVoyager]

And the only people who don’t know where they are going are the north up people. 😂

[@danielreuter2565]

@@LTVoyager how can you know where you're going if you don't know where you are?? 😎

[@Mistamannfour]

The wet compass should be eliminated: the wet compass is bad engineering now but the best instrument available at the time of aviation start. All planes should use magnetometers to eliminate the induced errors that wet compasses provide.

[@freddyfreeloader1200]

But it’s simple and needs no power to run. Unless you live too far north or south latitude it’s not hard to master with some practice.

[@Mistamannfour]

@@freddyfreeloader1200It's not simple! You have to constantly apply UNOS and ANDS to properly use the wet compass while maneuvering the plane. With all the other things that us pilots are thinking about, the last thing I want to do is increase mental workload. Why are you concerned about power to run an instrument or device? Almost all GA pilots navigate using GPS on an iPad/tablet that have internal batteries in conjunction with panel Nav equipment; therefore, loss of electrical power is no big deal from a navigation perspective.

[@chrisschack9716]

So long as your gyrocompass or glass panel is working, that's going to be more accurate (barring precession), but what if that fails? There's not much to go wrong with a magnetic compass. Same as running your attitude indicator off vacuum and turn coordinator off electric.

[@LTVoyager]

Wrong. The wet compass is fantastic engineering that operates in all conditions, with or without electrical power. It doesn’t get much better than that.

[@Mistamannfour]

@@LTVoyager Agree to disagree! I'm an engineer as well as a pilot, and as an engineer you never engineer in clear errors in any device and consider it "good" engineering. It's one thing for an instrument to have reading tolerance errors, but a device that provides gross errors during turns to the North or South or erroneous turn indications when accelerating/decelerating is just bad engineering, period! As I stated in my original post, the wet compass was the best instrument available for navigation during aviation's heyday. However, new tech that eliminates the errors of the wet compass via the magnetometer is superior. A compass heading using a magnetometer is correct regardless of aircraft maneuvering or speed changes and removes the need to think about the instrument readings. Far too many pilots worry about loss of electrical power! How many times have you really had a loss of electrical power? You are worrying about poor MTBF of old aircraft and old designs and systems. Even if you lost electrical power you can still navigate with your iPad/tablet with it's backup battery and Stratus/Sentry or Dual XGPS devices that are independent of the aircraft power bus. There is no reason to keep the error prone wet compass!