A tech company you can actually like!

[@You_are_wrong99]

Just remember, never simp for a company. The ''evil'' company we know was good until they become too big.

[@Krishna-pt3yu]

That is why corporations and Unions are always bad they are only incentivized to care about their bottom lines and share holders and do nothing for average consumers. We need small Enterprises and a lot of competetion.

[@vidyajamesu]

@@Krishna-pt3yu You have a really serious misunderstanding of Unions. Are there bad unions that abuse their position? Absofuckinglutely but don't forget that most unions work very hard to protect its members from corporate exploitation. Edit: I say 'most', but maybe 'many' is a fairer way to say it.

[@burhanbudak6041]

​​@@Krishna-pt3yuunions in the states got a bad reputation because of the State letting mafia taking them over. Union are supposed to be company's. Union in Europe do good job in Collective Bargaining Deal. Even if the employee who buy workforce is good, a deal is the bair minimum so if the CEO goes bad he can't take steps back, like Elon.

[@Adrot]

​@@vidyajamesuIndeed, this mindset is unsanitary and immature. A lot of competition? How will you incentivize it when the huge corporations have solidified power? Best you can do is to innovate in other sectors and also hold the giants accountable via the government. Good unions also hold the companies accountable so that the workers don't get treated like slaves. And even then, it's not secure that good unions last. If the company isn't seeing max profits while a union exists, then the shareholders will replace the CEO with another that is anti-union and bust it up.

[@alexisdumas84]

The Proton Corporation is owned by the nonprofit Proton Foundation, which has a very explicit charter detailing their values of freedom and democracy and security and privacy for the internet. And that nonprofit is incorporated in a country that legally enforces its charter so that it will be forced forever to act in accordance with its stated goals and intentions.

[@dhillaz]

Craigslist is my 'good company' - 250 million monthly visits, $500m+ revenue, and just 50 employees. Simple, user friendly and stable since 1995

[@d3xmeister]

You’re clueless. Craigslist is huge, and very complex, both technically, legally etc. Craigslist is a Behemoth

[@loganwenzel1615]

User friendly? 😂

[@JohnClarkW]

@@loganwenzel1615 maybe if you hate the UI being updated, ever, I could see that.

[@alexdev404]

"User friendly" is questionable

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

@@loganwenzel1615 It's not pretty, but if you can read and operate a mouse, it's the easiest website in the world to use.

[@drdonut2564]

About the French activist: He used the normal webpage for the email, which is why Proton had to give his IP address to the authorities. Proton does operate a TOR service, where you can access your email without your IP address being exposed, so if he would have used that, the authorities would be left empty-handed. Furthermore, Proton's yearly transparency report does state how many government requests they received, how many they contested, and how many they ultimately complied with. You cannot operate a company in a western country without abiding the law, but I think in this regard, Proton is as good as it gets.

[@amunak_]

You cannot operate a company *anywhere* without being at a whim of whatever country you're running it from. And if you want to (legally) accept money, you always have to do that.

[@Stilllife1999]

As a proton user, I'm not a fan of proton marketing

[@alexisdumas84]

There are a lot of claims about Proton's marketing being misleading, but honestly I don't see it. If you actually read what they say instead of half-assidly skimming it and making nonsensical assumptions about what email has a protocol that's capable of doing, it's extremely clear what they mean.

[@TheLouisXXI]

I got banned from their email, for no reason

[@wrentubes1886]

I first saw marketing for Proton on an adult web site with sketchy ads lol

[@Jose04537]

That's because in some US states (Texas for example) you need to use a VPN to be able to watch p*rn. ​@@wrentubes1886

[@Tempires]

at least they are not as annoying and pushing like tutanota

[@mx338]

ProtonMail does also work with other encrypted mail services which use PGP or where the user themselves sets up PGP, so this isn't a closed eco-system.

[@BillAnt]

Google would never allow PGP handshake cuz they want to read all your mail for ad purposes. lol

[@amunak_]

@@BillAnt It's not about the handshake, you encrypt message contents in your mail client, and you can do that with Google, too. But they still get to see the metadata (and subject!).

[@DjSapsan]

As a proton user I confirm this - it allows to run all Steam games with 1 click

[@1.0]

Unless anti-cheat :(

[@proCaylak]

funny.

[@gustavadolf3754]

@@1.0 unless the developers have explicitly chosen not to have their games anti-cheat work with proton

[@rikachiu]

Not anymore :(

[@RealBrokoli]

Lol that is a different tool

[@WURO98]

I am not sure why there are so many negative comments here. Of course, we have to see what happens in the future and if Proton stays as ethical as it seems right now, but I am quite excited that there appears to be a company that tries to build a eco-system of so many different useful features in a privacy focused way. We can always complain when it goes the wrong way and discontinue using it but for now let´s cheer it up and support it!

[@Elemblue2]

Yes. Thank you. They actively lobby the government to enforce freedoms and privacy. So hopefully that government will continue to hold them accountable.

[@andrijnovak6367]

A lot of people seem to thing the downfall of such a company is inevitable. I think it all comes down to the intention. If the company structure makes it impossible to deviate from the original values, then we have a good basis.

[@Hexagonian]

@@andrijnovak6367 I don't think its quite as much the lack of trust in the company as it is today, but rather skepticism towards a heroic all-good company coming to the rescue. It sounds too good to be true. But for as long as the foundation controls the company and stays true to it's mission, I prefer supporting them than any other alternative.

[@simpleadi2190]

Completely agree.

[@Desalnietteminimaal]

If the company turns evil or not, will depend on the businessmodel. If they can realize healthy growth without selling out on their values, we might have an actually 'good' company whose interest arent against the interests of their users.

[@BuggiEU]

They didn't go public, so that's a good start...

[@jeslinmx22]

Counterpoint: you can always realise more growth by opening up to the possibility of evil, so it’s ultimately up to the company’s leadership whether or not they keep to the path.

[@Redmentoos]

Proton is proof that companies can be trustworthy, affordable, open-source-based, and still be profitable.

[@Redmentoos]

P.S. still don't ever trust them. As they get bigger, their greed will grow in proportion to their size. And with companies that wealthy, greed will always win.

[@Jose04537]

Until they get too big or go public.

[@Redmentoos]

@Jose04537 Yeah, i was a bit stoned on the second one

[@CloudPhase]

@@Redmentoos Man that took a 180 real quick, but yeah, honestly I think some companies really can be trusted, but regardless it's still good practice for them to act in a way where you don't need to trust them to still have privacy whenever possible. For example: Mullvad, I trust that they aren't gonna spy on me, but it's still really good that they operate in a way where even if they did want to spy on me it would be very difficult

[@Marcusdamascus]

First of all they leaked personal data of an activist from France 3y ago towards the swiss authorities think again they are just the same as Google and other tech companies

[@korakys]

Proton is what Mozilla should have been.

[@spiritofstar]

Exactly

[@Kaya-bp5mv]

Yea I always wished for Thunderbird to become a proper email provider, but Mozilla tried to axe it on multiple occasions instead. They don't even advertise the client on their website anymore. Also killed their passwords app, it's like they're evolving but backwards..

[@Jose04537]

Proton is paid. Firefox is free. There's no way to monetize a browser without selling your data.

[@Kaya-bp5mv]

@@Jose04537 Firefox is not the only product Mozilla has. In fact, it also has subscription services, the same monetization model Proton uses.

[@Qwertworks]

A wild Kora spotted!

[@nikkehtine]

Proton has been surrounded by some controversy, but a channel called "Default" made a pretty good video talking about that. In short - it's 100% fine to use for the privacy aware, you just need to remember that email as a technology wasn't designed with privacy and security in mind and you should use other, more secure forms of communication if it's necessary.

[@Ahmed-eu4yb]

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking. This comment should be pinned

[@MauroFire]

For me the most important thing is that Proton is not an American company and this is why I don’t think it will end up like the other giants.

[@jerry.berumen]

spotify?

[@Ezel_00]

I never understood the issue when Proton handed over their users IPs to the authorities being controversial. They initially didn't comply which caused such a huge issue that their government "had to" step in from my understanding. I'd trust them more for that than other companies that would've handed user information to the authorities without any resistance.

[@xynonners]

I agree, but the best is to have absolutely 0 logs in the first place, but there are laws against that

[@username-mb2qh]

Well they do also offer a VPN service with a pretty good free option now so as long as they don’t reveal the IP that’s concealing there is a pretty easy way to get around that issue at least.

[@formbi]

@@username-mb2qh Mullvad VPN is confirmed to not store logs

[@naervern2107]

In their terms, until that incident, they claimed such data wasn't logged. When it happened, they silently changed the ToS to cover that. So, basically, you can put very little trust in a company like Proton.

[@Sollaze]

​@@naervern2107 But the thing is that the data wasn't logged. They had to get the IP from a live connection. And it's quite difficult to not know the unobfuscated IP address of a person directly connected to you for communications.

[@LastSecBloomer]

Let's hope they won't take after Mozilla, which is an absolute mess of a company and will end up ruining the only competitor Chrome has...

[@beefox__]

the issue is that mozilla is a weird thing of a company, firefox is open source however the board of mozilla is not, which is why even though no users want ai, ai can make it into the main browser.

[@swecreations]

@@beefox__Plenty of users want AI in their browser... have you never even used it before? Why do you think ChatGPT is so popular among people? It's useful.

[@nikkehtine]

Zen Browser came out to push the needle and make Firefox better, and if things go haywire I believe that it, LibreWolf and Mullvad Browser can pick up where Mozilla would have left. Not to mention there is also Ladybird which is completely independent of Chromium, Firefox and WebKit.

[@robspiess]

I wonder if Proton can purchase Mozilla. To be the "google replacement", an owned browser should be in their toolbelt.

[@fabianletsch1354]

Mozilla went downhill when Brendan Eich left the company

[@tiagom]

WE NEED PROTON MAPS!! just make OSM but with a good interface so i can ditch Gmaps and make it easy to suggest edits so the community can help it be better!!

[@alexisdumas84]

Organic Maps is 1000% what you want, it's truly excellent.

[@delamcode]

@@alexisdumas84or osmandmaps or magic earth, all great

[@manveroo1340]

I love OsmAnd. Especially since open street maps have POIs like toilets 😅

[@gung-hochang9573]

@weekendwarrior3420 I think it's pretty naive to think that Garmin doesn't track users. Also, it's pretty bad use of money. Not only are the devices pretty bad but you already have devices that can do navigation. Most people have their previous phone, I don't understand why people aren't finding ways to use their old phones. There are several open source and privacy-friendly navigation apps for Android. If you run GrapheneOS then you're much better off privacy-wise than a Garmin product.

[@TheWhitePianoKeyProductions]

Openstreetmaps has sone good apps that makes it very easy to suggest edits. Also the osmand app is pretty good? Google will always be better, as using so much data from people, just makes searches faster. Also only google will have reviews and pictures. But osm is already better for finding specifics loke water or toilets, and for walking or biking. Which is crazy that an opensource thing does it better than a big giant company

[@RussellBeattie]

*Consumers don't care about privacy*. Any service that focuses on privacy will never get beyond a niche service. Privacy is a feature that everyone says is important, but when it comes to actually spending money, it's not a priority.

[@bad_dragon]

proton is free ! enterprise features are under a paywall

[@ThePlayerOfGames]

3:22 Proton's solution in the meantime is you can send an "encrypted mail" to someone that actually sends a link to a note that they need a password to open. The note is email-formatted and doesn't leave their servers, so if you send the password via something like Signal then Google/Microsoft/Yahoo etc can't read your private emails to non-Proton users

[@MrChubib0]

Remember when google has this motto (Don't be evil)

[@matthi9384]

*had

[@MrChubib0]

@@matthi9384 sorry English is not my first language :D

[@alexisdumas84]

Yeah, except this time, the corporation in question, as I've said in a bunch of other comments on this thread, is owned by a non-profit foundation with a very explicit charter, and that foundation in turn has been incorporated in a country that actually legally enforces non-profit charters, such that it can't just change its mind and start doing something else.

[@drink666bleach]

@@MrChubib0Maybe consider correcting your comment then instead of misleading everyone who sees it.

[@t.r.2283]

In china Google is banned. Apple not. And we know china has full access to every company and service that is allowed there.

[@fuseteam]

I feel like we don't just need a good ecosystem from a company, we need a good ecosystem of companies. Like why not build proton mail support directly into thunderbird? Why not interoperate with other encrypted mail service providers?

[@lotli83]

For now.... Give it enough time

[@Soguwe]

I wonder how long it takes for this video to age like milk My guess is 5 years

[@smallqwaro]

I give it 3

[@2failepic]

As long as they don't get significant market share they won't be able to enshitify their services without using signficant amount of users. Just pray as a Proton user that they stay niche and don't become big and greedy. It's kind of messed up, but it's basically a law now that when your tech company is big enough you will eventually make your platform/service worse because you have the market power to do so without losing the userbase. So as a consumer you basically have to root against the success of the service so they stay hungry and bleeding edge.

[@username65585]

It is owned by a non-profit foundation.

[@TheDuzx]

It could definitly go either direction at this point. I hope they'll solidify the foundation's power over the coming years. Also I never trusted their VPN service. If you're paying for Proton Unlimited you might as well use it, but if you're not I would reccomend going for another VPN service right now.

[@Soguwe]

@@username65585 so is FIFA

[@MoyDee]

Services like Proton and Signal are critical to our society. They should be funded and encouraged to grow.

[@rapacious_rapscallion]

Proton is great but they need to work toward improving their current products rather than rolling out new ones. There’s a long list of feature requests from customers which have been unmet.

[@Temperancefp]

I got to meet them in an type of event fair at EPFL in Lausanne when they launched a few years ago, I’ve been using them since then and I don’t regret it!

[@elamperti]

Proton user here. The company has been expanding into a lot of different products lately and there are still a bunch of basic things (like syncing contacts with mobile, calendar stuff, etc) that are missing. Performance of the email client compared to gmail and others is painfully slow. And their marketing posts are bs, they don't seem to be written by people aware of real privacy and security concepts. I don't think this is a "company you can actually like", it's perhaps the lesser of current evils.

[@simpleadi2190]

When he showed the gmail and protonmail logo side by side, I just then realised their logo seem completely opposite. I don't know if that's on purpose but protonmail's logo seems like it's made from the negative space of gmail's, almost. Like it's signaling that they are giving everything gmail isn't. Pretty interesting.

[@jojodroid31]

You mean at 2:50? They look nothing alike. Google is clearly a M, with multiple contrasting colours. Protonmail is a vague with very sharp corners and purple gradients.

[@freedomgoddess]

​@@jojodroid31 exactly. what a great logo!

[@cjxgraphics]

7 years ago, TechAlter put out a video, “Why enthusiast brands will betray you.” As much as I hope to be proven wrong, that video outlines why Proton is great for now, but once they get big enough…

[@kil-roy]

Sadly it's inevitable.

[@arcticpilotshow4440]

I have been using Proton for several years and have an unlimited plan. My biggest fear is that this company will be swallowed up by some big US company, but then I will go somewhere else.

[@BillAnt]

But you can't take your precious email with you unlike mobile numbers. :(

[@XGD5layer]

​@@BillAnt You can, if you have used your own domain with proton

[@BillAnt]

​@@XGD5layer - Well yeah, but relatively few have their own domains.

[@youtubeus3rname]

This video is a complete nerd-out for me! I'm of pretty much identical views on Proton, and I'm glad to see them being recovered like this. By the way - valid points about ownership!

[@PXAbstraction]

If you want a VPN, don't use whatever service the KZbinr you're watching is shilling (most of which are owned by the same, dubious company) and get Proton VPN. If a KZbinr is shilling it, there's almost always a better alternative available.

[@namm0x326]

ProtonVPN is ok. Mullvad is better IMO

[@ILoveTinfoilHats]

Remember: KZbin promos are way more expensive than ads. If a company can afford shill time, they are probably making a *lot* of money off it.

[@PXAbstraction]

@@ILoveTinfoilHats The profit margins on VPN services are crazy high.

[@ILoveTinfoilHats]

@@PXAbstraction yup. That and every other scam and/or fear mongering service on KZbin.

[@username-mb2qh]

I wonder what’s the general consensus on Cloudflare WARP. It seems like another pretty good free VPN option. I was split between the two options but I like how WARP doesn’t require a login.

[@tengkualiff]

As a Malaysian, i got confused for awhile 😂

[@cryonuess]

elaborate? :D

[@proCaylak]

@@cryonuess there is a malaysian car manufacturer named proton.

[@user-wz8hp2ix9f]

Now I know why it sounded so familiar initially.

[@jun_suzuki42]

Fellow Malaysians, that explains….. Whenever I share my Proton email address to Malaysians, they were like “you working with Proton ah”?

[@Gigusx]

@@jun_suzuki42 Oh man, that's a social engineering angle if I ever saw one.

[@devaraft]

Companies aren't inherently evil but it's always about profit. Sometimes they have to do something evil to get more profit and sometimes they have to do more good.

[@visaaa16]

Great video as always. Keep up the good work man

[@Pro720HyperMaster720]

0:17 I missed Framework there

[@QuantumFantasy]

I'm so glad this was a positive vid. I've been a proton member since 2019. It's awesome how they've grown in the past 5 years

[@Totto70770]

They are good enough for the normal person wanting to limit their reliance on Google/Apple/Whatever. Just don't rely entirely on the promise for privacy and security. Their apps are good enough for me, some functionality is missing, but still better than having lots of useless bloat.

[@diegosvfx]

I miss the old studio! This background purple-grey is a bit too boring

[@10xscience]

Current background feels like brilliant logo

[@Fuad_]

The background is a green screen

[@Brahvim]

At least the name is back!

[@tec4303]

I actually kind of like the background in this video

[@DiversionG]

10:20 If they have +50% of the shares, that's probably enough to keep the company safe from adapting non-user friendly practices

[@raideveloper]

Even if proton get shittier over time and probably will, it cannot get too bad because there will be no difference compared to the other players. Also even if the privacy features are not perfect just the fact that is not one of the FAANGs and that we have a decent alternative that is always relying on paying and not on ads is a good thing.

[@cavemann_]

If it exists, it will undergo enshittification. Rule #36.

[@texanplayer7651]

There is also p..rn of it #34

[@rausb]

@@texanplayer7651 I am pro Proton porn (Proporn). If there is Amateur Proton porn, then I am pro Pro Proton Porn.

[@Sammi84]

Depends on who the owners are. Companies funded by VC money and publicly traded companies will squeeze every drop of good out of everything. However private companies owned by one or a few people will do what those people believe in. And they will survive enshittyfication as long as the owner is engaged. See Valve as an example.

[@nuttbaked]

Ah yes, a rare promising company is trying to go big and still has its values so let me call it a future evil instead of supporting (or even being neutral) That mentality won't help you bro

[@Hexagonian]

@@texanplayer7651 Protondaddy, please protonate me. :3

[@Mexicomank2]

Its funny because I used simple email and standard notes before proton acquired them but I was using proton mail $5 plan . So over time as they expanded their ecosystem I was already a user of the apps they acquired

[@davidtindell950]

Thanks ! I have been avoiding 'Proton' but now I will, at least, check them out !

[@Triro]

Proton is a great company, don't get me wrong. But true privacy is always in self hosting all of these services yourself. As well. You're the one in control of it. A good VPS is only about 5 bucks a month (depending on the provider). Or have control over the hardware as well, and self host it at home, for free. apart from electricity and internet.

[@alexisdumas84]

And a VPS won't work as a VPN, because you'd be the only person using that VPS as a proxy and not only that, but Anyone watching any site you might want to disguise your visit to could easily take your VPS's IP address and trace it back to your account on whatever company like DigitalOcean or whatever you got the VPS from and from there get your PII trivially.

[@tec4303]

Of course self hosting gives you full control and has some benefits (but also disadvantages like not having a team of security experts checking your system). But most people just lack the skills to do so. My parents and grandparents would be incapable of doing something like this and I choose not to, just because I don't want to spend my time troubleshooting my own server. With mass surveillance we also need privacy for the masses.

[@Triro]

@@tec4303 Self host is honestly, incredibly easy with software like "Yunohost". Just do a single command in ssh, and you're server is setup for you, with good security practices. Anybody can gain a skill, you just have a try.

[@fghsgh]

it is also hard to self-host email because many big email providers block entire blocks of IPs to avoid spam

[@AbteilungsleiterinBeiAntifaEV]

So let me get this straight, I try to hide who I am, so I change the IP of my computer, which is tied to me, by routing my traffic through a virtual server which I also own, which is also tied to me? Even better, just put the VPN server in my own home so that it has the very same IP as my computer? Thank you so much, this is genius.

[@caskadestudio]

I remember I first heard of proton mail a couple years ago when an investigative journalism podcast I was listening to said that listeners could send secure tips to their proton email - rather than an email of the media organisation. Cool that it has this potential, as others have pointed out being under the Proton Foundation with a clear ethical charter, and being open-source, means it will have at least some longevity.

[@Nicola-cg1rg]

Don’t know if I agree, Martin. Having different providers for different services is actually a good thing. Ecosystems tie you to a single company way too much. Proton pushing for one so hard makes me not want to use their mail service anymore.

[@finnderp9977]

Ecosystems tends to be more convient and easier to use specially on mobile, sso with single credentials, less payment info to manage etc. I think it will attract more people than alienate.

[@Anything_Anthony]

It’s arguably a more ethically run ecosystem, but @Nicola-ch1rg you are right. De-coupling would be de-risking

[@nikkehtine]

I really don'y think they "push" you towards their ecosystem, you don't have to use it, it's just there to be convenient for people coming over from Google, Microsoft and Apple.

[@formbi]

it's quite easy to integrate free software with other free software, which means you have lots of replacements for the ecosystem apps

[@whulum]

Indeed good to place eggs in different baskets, but bad for mass market adoption. If users are gonna be brain dead and follow the path of least resistance, then this is a good way to get them onboard. And for the rest of more privacy concious people, they still have that option. I pay gor proton for example, but I dont use all of the services I get, only a select few and use other services for the rest

[@2livenoob]

Finance bros be like, "Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Jack Welch?"

[@Panakotta000]

I prefer private companies over public companies. Sure their financial Reports are not public but especially in the case for companies on the stock market, private companies don't have to grow so agressively and become hostile. It's "okay" to loose some money, especially in a ressesion (obviously always taking a loss is bad, but its not so "overly feared and problematic")

[@arunbalakrishnan2694]

Proton VPN is among the better options available, and its free service is quite impressive

[@Jasonlhy]

If you starts from all free, it is difficult to ask people to pay….. I have worked in similar scale company before. Private, profitable company, no VC money, selling product for global scales. It is much better to work in there than most places. The company is earning the $$$ most people will consider enough for life, not that much pressure come from management, no crazy deadline, smart people to work with and we can focus to improve the product. But things just become bad when it is sold to public traded company, management style change, smart people left, good people retired, and some evil people want to maximise the profit, hire bad people for less cost etc

[@Majso]

I’d love to use proton, but it’s way too expensive for me to justify it. I’m not saying the price isn’t fair, considering they only rely on income through subscriptions, but for me personally I just can’t spend that much on a mail suit.

[@bad_dragon]

the free tier of proton mail is basicly equivalent to gmail

[@teodorhagiu7945]

You and Mental Outlaw probably need to have a chat.

[@PinikRahman]

hes just shilling

[@MapsaiLiv]

Why exactly? Proton is superior for now and I don't see any issues with it. I agree with this channel

[@HelloOnepiece]

Tbh Mental Outlaw is the other extreme of privacy discussion. His videos are too obsessed with privacy to your average internet user, may as well just get off the grid

[@ErmandDurro]

Great video! Thank you for all the details. I like Proton a lot and I am using it since a few years now as my email

[@-Rishikesh]

proton can pay a small donation to signal and maybe incorporate a version of signal into proton for business video calls and p2p calls within their service. This increases the network effect for both the players.

[@bearpitrock]

For those of us that just want a consumer level of privacy, I'm happy with my Proton Unlimited package. Like many others here though, the existing products (Android, in my case) do need better attention. The mail client is fine but the calendar needs a lot of work. I so want to use it, but it just lacks too many basics.

[@DeKempster]

Proton needs to make a browser based on the Gecko engine

[@spiritofstar]

Yes, we need better Firefox, or in future create Browser based on servo or ladybird

[@formbi]

@@spiritofstar Librewolf

[@spiritofstar]

@@formbi no

[@d4n93r]

@@spiritofstar lol

[@hclyrics]

I'll just continue waiting (impatiently) for the Ladybird browser.

[@psammiad]

Even if the "Foundation" 100% owns the company - who runs the Foundation? That's another important question. People can be bought.

[@TechAltar]

You can read their blog post, it's explained there

[@d11ita]

Thanks for this video! It's good to know that we still have some hope in terms of privacy. I will consider these services.

[@Pandacier]

"You either die as a hero or live long enough to be the villain" Mozilla is already going through this phase. I wouldn’t be surprised if Proton was going towards this direction too in a few years…

[@cyrilio]

Request to do a video about email providers other than the big mega corps.

[@CrazyMonkeyNinjaNerd]

While you're waiting, you can check out the LTT series "De-google your life"

[@santiagorivera9934]

Proton's much better, but they do have many red flags, recently they rug pulled their own paying users, posting offers and saying that if you bought them, you would get premium features, and after a few weeks changed their ToS removing said features. Their official account made the comments so yeah.

[@silvanverhoeven]

My question after that video is: How? How did they manage to get a solid business model as an email provider that is only secure when communicating with other customers?

[@Sloff1155]

I also use proton and I love it. I love what they do and I really wish they offered a full disc encryption for my computer.

[@mAny_oThERSs]

I like all the tech companies i make use of. If you dont like a tech company but use their products, you're a hypocrite. "I hate this company, they are so bad. Also i just bought the thing they created, because i think it's so good. What they do is bad though." Doesn't make sense now, does it?

[@CarrotConsumer]

It depends entirely on how much you hate them and how much benefit you get from their product as well as the availability of competing products.

[@mAny_oThERSs]

@@CarrotConsumer if their existence is a netgain to you, you shouldn't hate them.

[@BuggiEU]

Doing some thing good doesn't make the company good, it just means that the product is better than the alternatives.

[@mAny_oThERSs]

@@BuggiEU if their existence is a netgain to you, you shouldn't hate them. Otherwise you're an ungrateful hypocrite.

[@BuggiEU]

@@mAny_oThERSs This is a business, they provide a product and earn money from me as a user, I don't owe them any gratitude. I don't know if their existence is a net gain to me, because i don't know what alternative services would have been developed if it wasn't for a dominant position of a product I currently use.

[@Xynic48]

One thing that should be noted is that, while they do open source their codes, they only show what they want to show so you cant really 100% say for sure that they are being truthful. Their vpn for example is using another open source vpn library like can we say for sure that their commercial vpn is also using that open source vpn library.

[@giomjava]

I'm a Proton user, even though they have issues -- I'm sticking to it. Not loving too many products too fast -- some of the core products need love (email, calendar app, etc).

[@paprisake_07]

Imagine a fusion of Brave + Proton + CalyxOS + Signal + TOR would be such a crazy feat. ProCaSiTOR vs GAFAM

[@smallqwaro]

Hold up, they bought standard notes too?

[@Fayknol]

Big fan of Proton, good pricing and it's permanent as long as you don't switch and great product that gest closer to Google by the week (the calendar is still not there yet though)

[@thunderbird3694]

Don't know if its same company, but I owned high-tech Proton Monitor and Pulse Code Modulator over 50 years ago

[@KazrBrekker]

Watch this video in about 3-4 decades and see if Proton is still the almighty privacy saint protector or not 🤣

[@SimonVaIe]

Wait... Things can change? Oh my god, who knew?!

[@aarocka11]

Proton mail is a fed honeypot and Swiss privacy policy, requires them to keep records of all emails You’ve sent for three years.

[@joh2434]

I like Proton's products but they're also paywalling things like biometric auth on Proton Pass for desktop while moving to a nonprofit model. It's a mixed bag 🤷‍♀

[@formbi]

freedom-respecting software can be commercial

[@Ytargentina]

The only company where I pay "big" money for their services.

[@gptBreeze_io]

00:00 Tech companies face trust issues. 01:00 Demand for encrypted services surged. 02:00 Proton Mail uses automatic PGP encryption. 03:00 Email privacy is challenging without collaboration. 04:00 Ecosystem includes VPN, calendar, and drive. 05:00 Proton claims over 100 million users. 06:00 Sustainable subscription model ensures independence. 07:39 Mozilla relies heavily on Google payments. 08:39 Signal's funding struggles with sustainability. 09:49 Proton created a governance foundation. 10:50 Proton complies with Swiss legal demands. 12:01 Strong privacy features promote usability. Summary by GPT Breeze

[@cajal6]

The problem is that all of their apps are half baked. They don’t even have search in calendar on mobile or full text search for mail on mobile. It’s hard to attracts new users when their products are so limited. They need to stop launching new half-done products and focus on the existing ones.

[@contentlyshane]

Proton should make a competitor to signal or merge with them and create a premium version to bring in revenue

[@Bhethar]

I love proton, they are not perfect and at times need some time to iron out things but they do try. Their possibly the most easy to use private service provider.

[@frankr111th]

I've moved to quite a few of Proton's services. Email, drive, and password mgr

[@bradbeckett]

There is something very wrong with Proton. I think it’s a honeypot. Their product design is the same as HushMail and that was backdoored for the US.

[@RenderingUser]

the title had me confused lmao yall gotta stop making a full sentence combining thumbnail text and title 😭

[@johanngambolputty5351]

Even if proton didn't do encryption between proton users, or didn't have open source client side code, or was just as bad as the other guys in every way, there's still a case for giving some of the resources to a third guy, rather than just continuing to contribute towards the empire of the first two...

[@joostoons8001]

I was waiting for you video

[@BareSphereMass]

I hate proton. I got the vpn for 1 month and used a virtual credit card. I use virtual credit cards for things that are hard to unsubscribe to and I stick a limit on it so I never get charged for more than the 1 month. At the end of the month, instead of sticking me back on the free tier, my proton account got banned. In order to get it back I would have to pay a fee + another month of the paid version to get it back. That is complete BS. It should just revert back to the free tier. I hate the company and would never recommend it to anyone.

[@KirbyNPenguins]

Pretty sure that can be seen as suspicious enough to lead to wire fraud, so they're only protecting themselves from losing money. Sure, their response with a ban is a bit harsh but understandably so. Honestly I have never had an issue cancelling subscriptions paid with my direct credit card numbers, save for some non-profit donations (looking at you, Wikimedia).

[@csibesz07]

@@KirbyNPenguins bs, they claim they respect privacy and don't accept virtual card? wtf

[@pospile]

Proton mail also allows you to send email with password instead of just plaintext to gmail or other unencrypted servers. This means other user just receive link with prompt to enter password (you have to tell them that password). This atleast mitigate the gmail automatically reading the email content.

[@RandomDeforge]

unfortunately as the past 20 years or so have shown us, anything that you don't host yourself that claims to be something like this is essentially a honey pot,.in a long enough time line anyway. especially a company that consolidates several sensitive products into one account.

[@crypticTV]

2:18 Pretty good 3:00 both need Proton

[@Emmysmithsnr]

Good until the get bigger and the Feds decides it's time to ask for user data like Telegram.

[@SimonVaIe]

At least proton encrypts their users data by default lol.

[@TommyCrosby]

One annoying thing is that Proton being more private also used more by criminals and some sites are banning signups by Proton emails domains...

[@zargis]

Just got their vpn sub this month, works well. Haven't tried other products tho.

[@felixsteininger]

Proton Pass is amazing, not just random passwords but random email-addresses as well.

[@false_positive]

VPN, Drive, Mail are structures that are on trust and reputation. I trust Proton. I'm in the ecosystem

[@GrandTerr]

I will save this to my Watch Later and use it when I want to listen to a fairy tale.

[@LeMatt87n]

“A tech company that won’t last”

[@Smokewith_Jesus]

The CEO name looks very Trustworthy 😂

[@KaptenMel]

i really hope they release a browser. that would be so cool

[@slinegaming3836]

Their ecosystem is kind of a mess. Like the made a bitcoin wallet with the gimmick being you can send btc via email. They were asked to implement monero as it is actually known for its privacy and security. But the admin on twitter said they’re “not interested in shitcoins” indicating they’re bitcoin maxies? It’s just a bit of a mess really

[@sleepingiv]

Alternative title - A tech company you can actually like , for now !

[@BeefIngot]

The thing about proton and something I've been sitting on with them, Is ai wish I could pay once, for say 10 years, and not worry about my email accounts going kaputz

[@kuromad]

I have been thinking about switching from Google Workspace to Proton. But the 'ecosystem' is something that I find to be the biggest turnoff. Proton Mail is expensive because of the rest of the features. I have VPN, I have cloud storage, I have a password manager. I intend to keep using those, and not switch to the Proton features that are included. I don't care if its only a 1 euro discount... its the principle. This kind of behavior is not something that fits in my definition of consumer friendly. Also arbitrary limits like having 15 e-mail aliases in the unlimited plan... thats not unlimited and there is no reason to limit them on the highest tier subscription. So yea, I'll continue thinking about it for the forseeable future.

[@DanKaschel]

The alias limit is to prevent commercial abuse

[@lores996]

AFAIK the CERN in Switzerland is also the same place where the first mail (maybe?) was sent or something similar.

[@TheRunpoker]

I have used protons products for 6 years and love the company ❤️