Why E-ink innovation is so slow

[@Pedro7526]

The big bezels are actually a good thing on an e-reader in my opinion. It gives you flexibility on how you want to hold it, just like a book does.

[@marsdeat]

I've been making this argument for years on tablets too. I personally prefer bezels on my phone but I can at least understand people not wanting them... but for tablets and ereaders, I just don't get why you would reduce the bezels on something that you're going to WANT to hold by its bezels at some point.

[@ChrisBeard]

Hard agree. Still on my kindle 3 with keyboard. 12 young and going strong. Got annoyed when they disabled the Amazon Kindle store though.

[@louououou]

Exactly! Totally agree. And also very important, they provide structural strength. Plastic is a cheap material but when used in great amounts it provides flexibility and strength. Reducing bezels to thin air reduces strength by a lot. One way companies achieve that is by using metals, but that increments the costs and the final consumer price...

[@unicorn7234]

@@marsdeatfor tablets the smaller bezels, the more area is accessible by a thumb or even an index finger. This is very important for on-a-go usage when a tablet is always in hands.

[@torresalex]

I honestly think the obsession of bezels on any touchscreen device borders on the ridiculous. 5 or 10 years ago, every smartphone had significant bezels and no one outside hardcore phone nerds gave a flying f*ck

[@trulsdirio]

Honestly they didn't change much because they are pretty much where they need to be. Big bezels help with holding the device, slow refreshes don't really matter when reading, 16 GB is hundreds of ebooks and a plastic construction makes them light and sturdy for daily use. I never felt like I needed more from mine.

[@Locomamonk]

yet kindle devices are really fragile. I have a Sony e-reader from 2010 which is still working, and at the same time two kindles which I had purchased have died, and prior to dying presented defects on the screen.

[@whenhen]

The only thing I want is color eink, since I read a number of science and design books with tons of illustrations. This will probably come with the next Kindle iteration. Other than that, the Kindle is excellent, especially given it’s low price.

[@kbhasi]

"16 GB is hundreds of ebooks" Yes, for regular plain text novels (edit: so it'd be fine for most people). The kind of stuff I read, like graphic novels, illustrated novels, and heavily illustrated non-fiction, tend to take up more space.

[@JohnMcLusky]

This is exactly it. My Kindle is old enough to no longer receive software updates from Amazon, but it's still everything I need from an e-reader. I don't run into any limitations or frustrations with it, it just works well! I'll replace it when it dies and not before, I don't need anything fancier.

[@PianoWolfg]

I agree, there are only some minor nitpicks that amazon could improve like allowing folders instead of forcing collections to organize your books, covers for pdfs and sync with google drive or dropbox(I know that they aren't going to do this last one) but for the most part I like how simple and dumb my kindle is, no need for bells and whistles

[@uptown3636]

It's always funny when tech reviewers treat e-readers like underperforming tablets. There are certainly other uses for e-ink (and I am excited to see what they are), but e-readers don't need thinner bezels or more interactivity. They're made for people who enjoy reading. What a concept! I recommend it.

[@blackgoon6906]

Yep, as someone who reads a lot of books that are free through prime and Amazon Classics, getting a Kindle has been a huge money saver. I hated reading books on a phone/tablet so I was just sinking $100+ monthly on physical copies of books I had through kindle for free just because I refused to use it until I got an actual Kindle.

[@abigguitar]

While reading is certainly a good use of the ePaper display technology, it isn't the only use case for it. The difficulty is, ePaper is not as flexible as LCD (or OLED) technology. Meaning, the answer to this tech reviewer's question is really buried in the limitations surrounding the technology itself. The ePaper technology has not proven itself to be useful as a general purpose display technology, even though it has been on the market for many years now. Many tech reviewers incorrectly assume, but like to postulate that ePaper could somehow replace an LCD display. The ePaper technology's designs (and underlying physics) simply prevent it from ever replacing LCD or OLED as a general purpose display.... thus relegating it to being useful for such niche purposes as reading, drawing and price tag use. Until some brilliant breakthrough occurs that allows ePaper to gain full RGB color with refresh rates that rival LCD, ePaper devices will remain limited to niche applications, which likewise limits exactly how much money can be made from devices using this technology.

[@kohai-kun9261]

​@@abigguitar not everything is about making money, y'know. Some things can just exist for the sake of it. They can serve a purpose without trying to do anything outside of its niche use case. E-ink works great for e-readers; so what if it doesn't work as a replacement for other screens? It doesn't have to.

[@romanblahynka4536]

And storage!! What about storage!? :D You really need at least 256GB of storage for.... books.

[@UkiyoIkou]

​@@romanblahynka4536it should be at least 50gb. I try and use mine for manga and it's just not enough space

[@krzysamm7095]

As someone who suffers from intractable migraines e ink has been a game changer for me as far as reading. On the recommendation of my neurologist I was instructed to read using an e ink device and to curtail the amount of time on a computer screen even with blue light glasses. So for me I will enjoy what I got as it does the job it is an e ink reader not a tablet ,doesn’t cost an arm and a leg and is easier to read.

[@salahidin]

Yep me too. E-ink is a god send.

[@SLDoughts]

I'm a little surprised you didn't mention Kobo. I am a rabid fan of my Kobo. I also have two e-ink tablets that write, because I got so tired of how quickly I'd go through notebooks. I get way, way less eyestrain on my eink devices, and they make reading accessible with a visual impairment.I love them, and I really hope e-ink devices to continue to exist.

[@apfelschorle1988]

Colour E-Ink has huge potential for digital photo frames. Those displays in the shops looked awesome. And photo frames don't need a good refresh rate.

[@Steamrick]

I don't see it. Maybe it's from being used to older e-ink generations, but e-ink is low on contrast and vibrancy, both of which is needed for photos to look good. It'd be like printing photos on regular paper instead of photo paper - it just isn't nearly as appealing. When I really need a digital print, I order the print from a dedicated company that does it in high quality. If that's too much, I probably don't need it at all.

[@apfelschorle1988]

@@Steamrick the quality of those donuts looked really great.

[@NatTanYZ]

Yeah, an E-Ink Google Nest Hub would be great!

[@Rooftopaccessorizer]

And lower power draw which is attractive for a decoration.

[@apfelschorle1988]

@@Rooftopaccessorizer exactly. The power draw is also the reason why I don't get the Samsung TVs that look like paintings.

[@ktuluftagn4eva]

Yes to big bezels, I have no idea how would I hold it with my fat fingers. Also, while everything here is true, I don't mind lack of features. I use my Kindle to read books and it works. I don't miss anything.

[@Protecter117]

My tab s7 already has small enough bezels, I don't understand how someone who actually lives with a device can think no bezels is good for larger devices.

[@94leroyal]

I have a smart phone which can do all the things that old kindles could do but way better. My backlight paperwhite is fantastic

[@Kalvinjj]

The only real lack of feature I don't like on the Kindle is the lack of storage upgrade. The extra price for a higher storage device just isn't justified for me, all I want is just not to worry if that manga I wanna read (what actually eats storage. Books are really small) will be there when I want.

[@MarcusBuer]

I love my kindle, but I wish it had Bluetooth so I could connect a simple Bluetooth button (like the ones used for taking photos on a smartphone) to turn the page. I hate having to reach the screen to turn the page, specially during the winter when I'm too comfy to move. A SD card reader would be nice too, so I could have my entire library there instead of having to manage what books are on it.

[@Kalvinjj]

@@MarcusBuer Funny enough, they do have Bluetooth, to listen to Audible books, but no idea if support for anything else on it. The software limitations on the Kindle are quite annoying. It was only last year I think when they started showing the cover of what you last read on the standby screen even, and no wallpapers there either.

[@RemotHuman]

Maybe they are losing features because the actual point of e-readers is simplicity and lack of features. If you wanted features you could get a tablet, but features can be distracting if you want a device that only allows you to read. I mean thats part of the appeal of a kindle for me. Just like that product "the light phone", sometimes less is more

[@imakro69]

That's just like saying that a car with only essentials is actually what's needed, and screens and soundsysyem are distracting

[@EugeneBuvard]

Yeah but you don't have the same reading experience with a tablet. With a full Android experience for example you could add newspaper app and dictionaries. If I'm not mistaken Kindle dictionary only do definition in one language. (Like no Chinese to English for example)

[@JuanCAraujoS]

@@imakro69 Well, that's the magic of an old WV Beetle: Less things to go wrong. No electronics, no complications.

[@موسى_7]

Let the invisible hand of the free market sort this out and see what consumer segments exist for e-readers. The hand now has options other than Kindle to choose from. Time will tell how many people want an e-reader which is minimalist and cheap, and how many want an expensive one.

[@EugeneBuvard]

@@موسى_7 invisible hand of the free market got us notch and the removal of the headphone jack. They could make awesome functional phones but they don't do that. I'm really not confident on that one. Financial priorities of greedy companies don't always align with good products for the customer.

[@PlasmaJunkie]

I will NEVER understand why the Pebble didn’t take the world by storm. It was a wonderful product. I still have it in a little plastic baggie in my tack drawer and look at it longingly every once in a while.

[@Lucas_Antar]

Because no one wants an e reader watch.

[@lukasg4807]

@@Lucas_Antar well garmin instint works but it has signifigantly longer battery life and caters mainly to outdoors people.

[@trevorsmith4109]

Im there with you bro

[@mugsofmirth8101]

My old Etch-a-Sketch works better

[@ProudiPhoneOwner]

I had a Pebble but got rid of it once they shut down the servers running much of the watch's services. I miss that watch but Now I have a Fossil Gen 6 Hybrid watch, also has an E Ink display. Sort of feels like a successor to the Pebble as far as the screen tech goes at least

[@OnlyEpicEmber]

Ever since I first saw a larger E-ink display, I thought an E-ink monitor was the way to go. They now exist, and they're a little laggy but I think that could be a real future segment of the display market. They're very easy on the eyes and much nicer to read so if your main job is document, spreadsheet or perhaps coding work then this is a great future segment to look out for.

[@umrasangus]

But wouldn't you need it as a separate display? Kind of like a secondary display. Because if you're programming an app or a game, you can't troubleshoot as easy with the slow refresh rates. It is a good idea, tho, I like it

[@OnlyEpicEmber]

@@umrasangus yes, you wouldn’t necessarily *have* to have a second monitor, but for colour accurate work (even when we have colour e-ink displays I bet the accuracy will be horrible for many years to come) or high refresh rate works like a video game then having a secondary display makes perfect sense, but the nice thing is you don’t have to constantly look at it, thus sparing your eyes.

[@umrasangus]

@@OnlyEpicEmber exactly, great idea

[@darrennew8211]

@@OnlyEpicEmber The way Mirasol works, you ought to in theory be able to set it to any color you want, if you could manufacture it with enough precision. I.e., the color is basically an analog component. But it's too hard to make in a bigger size.

[@Stefan-pj3oz]

@@umrasangus a lot of the people who would find it useful already use more than one monitor, so maybe it wouldn't be that big of a problem

[@SeanRosairo]

So here in Canada, Kobo has a larger marketshare. They really worked on ergonomics (incidentally making bezels larger) for comfort in holding. It also syncs up with the Toronto Public Library using overdrive/Libby so it saves me a ton of money on buying books. It also syncs with pocket which is extremely useful for long form articles. I think they were pretty early into the waterproofing and adjustable light game as well. I personally like how it really only has basic features so that I can focus on reading without distractions.

[@swecreations]

Plus you don't support Amazon's monopoly

[@chrisconnors7418]

Agreed. My kobo is connected to a big city library in another province (my small home town library selection isn’t great). Useful. I seldom use the bells and whistles (badges, reading stats). I just want to read.

[@098765432qwertyuiop]

Same in europe kobo feels like it has a similar or bigger marketshare.

[@sophiagonzales8974]

Here kindle has a bigger marketshare but I opted to go kobo instead since sideloading and pirating feels easier

[@brownwallet942]

Thank you Canada for making Kobo. I'm a huge fan! Bought a 10 yr old Kobo touch from fb market, it's still working mint condition :)

[@TheDivinepromise]

Less features in these e-readers make them better because it lessens the distractions. Unlike other devices, reading requires active attention. If every now and then, there will be other things you can do from these, you will definitely not able to finish what you are reading. That slow refresh rate doesn’t matter when your image is stagnant.

[@harpingon]

As my eyesight gets worse, I need large font size on my reader (kobo). This means also though that I’m really needing 2 page flips per second which starts to really struggle on the refresh and responsiveness on current e readers.

[@harpingon]

As my eyesight gets worse, I need large font size on my reader (kobo). This means also though that I’m really needing 2 page flips per second which starts to really struggle on the refresh and responsiveness on current e readers.

[@Alias_Anybody]

I'd argue that 3.5mm and good Bluetooth Audio for audiobooks and internet/apps to read news are still something I'd want.

[@rrwholloway]

@@Alias_Anybody so get a tablet....

[@alexanderg1935]

-stagnant- static

[@Bane_Amesta]

To me the only thing e-readers are missing is the book format. There's one from Japan with two screens (edit: is called eOneBook) that looks exactly like a book (even with dummy pages to add in the illusion) which is dedicated exclusively to manga. Is literally the coolest thing I've seen and I wish that format makes it to the rest of the world someday.

[@DivyeshVartha]

Can you name the device?

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

Like a Surface Duo?

[@casaraku1]

@@DivyeshVartha eOneBook

[@Kevin_Street]

That is definitely getting closer to the ideal Uber reader.

[@mordirit8727]

@Lurch I hear you, but it being built for manga does make sense. Imagine reading something like Berserk, famous for its double paged spreads of art that are absolute masterpieces that probably would be worthy of being a full on painting framed on a wall on their own, but having to see each half of that at a time...

[@clovis_the_spook]

Honestly my main criticism for the e-ink market is that no one has honestly tried to target the art market. While yes, e-ink will never compete with an Ipad or an android tablet (even if many e-ink devices can use android), I know so many artists who would kill to have a decent digital sketchbook, that is thin, light, and easy to see in most lighting. It wouldn't even need to have that many colors to be honest. Sadly, e-ink devices are just a little too expensive, and a little too limited for that right now.

[@NonJohns]

Yeah this was one of the key reasons i wanted an e reader, is to have a massive library of long lasting references it is perfect imo

[@Blackbird90]

Remarkable 2?

[@benenwren4110]

This was my first thought as soon as I learned about the technology. I'm so impatient to get my hands on an e-ink sketchbook, but they're currently too expensive for a piece of tech that you're going to be taking out and about with you.

[@clovis_the_spook]

@@benenwren4110 Exactly!

[@PainterVierax]

traditional sketchbooks are still unbeatable. You can get them at any size, quality, color and any thickness for quite cheap. And once you digitalized the pages you can recycle them very easily, even making an infinite cycle of DIY paper.

[@darrennew8211]

As someone with "ins" at Qualcomm, the Mirasol color e-ink panels didn't go anywhere because manufacturing one bigger than a watch face without flawed pixels was extremely expensive.

[@makatron]

For me the kindle increased the amount of books I read, being able to carry a whole library with me at all times. Also over a month of battery ensures there's no need to even worry Bout bringing a charger of you're traveling for a week or two.

[@amarissimus29]

I easily read three times as much on digital than I ever did on paper. The most frustrating thing is having the entirety of the written words of humanity available in seconds, and people are playing infantile games instead. It's depressing.

[@makatron]

@@amarissimus29 I still buy physical books, but first I mostly buy digital and start reading right away.

[@MarnixUwU]

When you said "the first kindle came out 16 years ago" I was thinking like. Wow Kindles have been out since almost the 90's???? Yeah 2007 hits different now huh.

[@TechAltar]

yep, lol

[@UltimateEightnine]

I had the original ReMarkable and absolutely loved it. When they came out with the ReMarkable 2, I instantly bought that one. If you're someone who writes a lot, needs to carry around a lot of documents, wants a battery that lasts forever and doesn't need the extended functionality that a tablet offers, these things are amazing.

[@turk639]

Maybe look at boox in my opinion better then a remarkable

[@wilmersandstrom2826]

If you had/have both. How would you say the quality was and how well have they held up long term. I've been thinking about getting one but I might wait for another 1 or 2 models since I've heard folks saying mixed things about them.

[@UltimateEightnine]

@@wilmersandstrom2826 They seem to be holding up well enough. I use the Remarkable 2 every day in the office as my daily driver. There is some signs of wear on the area where the pen magnetically clips on to the unit. The paint has pretty much rubbed away there. Functionally, the screen texture is still fine, the writing experience is still fine, operation is still fine, battery is the same as far as I can tell... I have the leather on mine- that seems to hold up pretty well unless you get it wet. A spot on it got wet and deformed permanently. Outside of replacing tips, I've lost one pen and have replaced it with no weird issues. One of the things that I was honestly most surprised with was the regularity of updates for the device. It seems like I'm always getting new and useful features every couple of months. Little useability improvements and the like. I wasn't expecting that. The original Remarkable has held up pretty well, but has not aged as well. It's white and has retained stains from much of the yuck that has touched it and the physical buttons don't feel as good anymore. They feel a little loose or sloppy. Operationally, seems fine. Screen is still fine, original pen still works fine, it is slower than the 2 and has less battery life. Hope this helps!

[@wilmersandstrom2826]

@@UltimateEightnine Alright awsome. Thank you so much for giving a more detailed answer!

[@Never_again_against_anyone]

Are there things you still miss in that user scenario? -I am just waiting for my remarkable 2 to be delivered and I am not sure it will be easy to decide on whether to keep it in the 100 day trial.

[@harigovinda7180]

Every one of the cons mentioned are actually good for e-readers. I feels they're a mature category. The thick bezels help in holding, black and white screen with distractions removed help in concentrating while reading. They're meant to be a simple gadget. Slow progress doesn't mean bad product...

[@gre8]

The only downside of the black and white screens are for books with pictures or illustrations. I usually read books on art and I have to do it on my tablet because the ebook can't handle the pictures.

[@0Synergy]

Yea all they need is colour and that's it stay exactly as they are besides that.

[@vertqqq]

I have severe autism

[@twist3d537]

muh pictures@@gre8

[@sedwarg]

Any slowness is totally offset by efficiency and eye comfort. Bezels aren't a bad thing when you're holding a 'book'.

[@cizd]

I think the main issue with epaper devices is that it's not the type of device you would want to replace every 1-2 years. It's probably closer to laptops where people are more likely to replace them every 4-8 years. I also think a lot of people struggle to justify such a huge upfront cost, but I think that actually makes a lot of sense. Personally I've saved a lot because ebooks/comics are cheaper than paperback and I buy fewer notebooks.

[@cizd]

@GaiaThink vs MoneyThink That makes no sense. I get my books from many different sites. They're usually cheaper. I don't want the books I buy to be tied to an app. Also my local library has an app.

[@gbennett58]

My Kindle is 9 years old and still going strong. What do you mean by replacing every 1-2 years?

[@doc8125]

@moneythink6977 it's probably a case of the physical edition being lowered in price because they need to get rid of old stock (stock taking place in a warehouse costs money after all). The Ebook does not take up any space so no need to do that

[@amentco8445]

no computer should be replaced every 1-2 years.

[@doc8125]

@@amentco8445 i agree, and I don't think most people do. With phones however it's a lot more common to replace them every two or so years

[@Okand2]

I love my Kobo. Great for reading on and it is easy to buy epubs from elsewhere and just copy over to it, shows up as any other USB storage device does. This flexibility is the reason I went for it over a Kindle primarily, but I also try to avoid Amazon in general anyway.

[@ShreyRupani]

I wanted to avoid amazon as well, so I traded spare earphones for a second-hand kindle, and use Calibre for books. I've 15k books in my library now!

[@rokko_fable]

I had a kindle and have a kobo now for that exact reason. However, Kindle does have one big advantage in my use case. when studying foreign languages, I can email a txt doc to my kindle, and easily touch words to bring up the dictionary/translation. can't seem to do that on the kobo.

[@ThalassTKynn]

I've had a few kobos over the years and I really like them. My only complaint is that now that my kobo mini has finally died (after about ten years of use, and it only broke because of my teenager kid) I can't buy a similarly sized device anymore! The mini fit in my shirt pocket at work so was perfect for bringing places. Oh well.

[@rokko_fable]

@@ThalassTKynn Hisense makes a couple of small e-ink devices. some are phones like the A5 and A7, and then there are the Hisense Touch and the Hi Reader. all phone-sized with e-ink screens. i wish the Yota Phone had been successful. it's a fantastic idea.

[@ThalassTKynn]

@@rokko_fable these days my dream phone would be a slightly larger Nokia N900 with a colour eink screen haha

[@ChalidRaqami]

Great summary! I've been covering E-Ink devices for over 12 years now and loved reviewing every device along the way. But as you said - progress has been slow for quite some time. But over the past 2-3 years E-Note devices became very popular and now with E-Ink Gallery 3 (real color E-Ink) on the way, I believe the market will change significantly in the next 3-4 years. Wouldn't be surprised if it will gain traction as fast as it did last time when E-Ink became popular with the first Kindle generations. Don't underestimate people's desire to move away from backlit screens to something more traditional - without completely giving up digital flexibility.

[@thediaclub4781]

I think a focused epaper like remarkable would be great for school. My school is curruntly experimenting with iPads and there's a lot of distracting things, like airdropping memes around. And even if this is also possible with normal backlight lcd I think that eInk is much pleasant for the eyes. EInk displays could also be used as black board replacement instead of backlight lcds because they have good visability even on bright days.

[@EbrahimRamzat]

There is also E Ink display or computer monitor. Which as Andrew Folts it is relaxing and ease eyestrain.

[@abierosete09]

I think the lack of other features (distractions) is what I love about my kindle. It’s mainly for book reading. I just want the pages to flip smoothly on the warm lit screen when I wanna read at night and that’s it.

[@igor.vysoky]

I hate that Kindle has cold led backlight

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

Yeah I agree. I don’t want all the extra features, I want to just read. If I wanted the extra features I’d just read on an iPad.

[@vertqqq]

I have severe autism

[@Corroyeur]

I think many serious readers, especially at a time when we are looking at computer screens all day for work, would never abandon their ereader for any other device. I have a phone, an ipad, many physical books, but my ereader basically never leaves me. The comfort and focused usage is irreplacable. Does an eink tablet has any potential outside of this narrow public? Probably not much, and that may be the explanation of the slow changes. It may not be obvious from the outside, but from a daily user perspective, ereaders have drastically changed in the past 20 years.

[@Otome_chan311]

Personally I got super excited when I found out about e-ink android tablets. As it's exactly what I've been wanting. I love my kindle, but *damn* do I love my onyx boox. Especially with color as well. I use phone+laptop so often that I get eyestrain. It's nice being able to pull away and just sit with an e-ink tablet that doesn't hurt my eyes.

[@Emanuel-sla-h5i]

Other than the ad supported lockscreen all the others don't seem like issues at all! It's a book. Never in my years of owning a kindle did I wish for a keyboard, a headphone jack, faster refresh rate, or a huge amount of storage, like EVER! And the huge bezel I can hold onto with one hand and flip pages at the same time, why would you want to remove that? o.O In this specific case things have been going in the right direction IMO. The device got streamlined by trimming down useless features. Again, except for the ads on the lockscreen. That's because it is a book...

[@msj7872]

I don't have a problem with ads on my lockscreen. As with anything digital since I am in the Amazon world with Prime and Alexa the ads are targeted and I have had some great suggestions for reading.

[@whenhen]

Agreed. The first Kindle was designed before the era of modern smartphones, and it obviously shows. Once smartphones were able to reliably browse the web, have enough storage for audio books and podcasts, all of those features were dropped. Now most e-readers excel at being a book replacement, which is all they have to do, since it's assumed that we all have far more capable devices for those other stuff that e-ink isn't well optimized for.

[@MarkReed-smokindeist]

Of course if you want to spend $20, you can get the ads on your Kindle removed--it just depends on how much it annoys you and if you think it's worth blowing $20 dollars. I can still do that for my old Touch today. I just got the Paperwhite SE as a birthday gift and the ads are switched off by default though you could get a $20 price break if you switch them on. Instead of the ads, I see the cover of the last book I was looking at on the lock screen (this can be turned off even.) I actually like seeing that.

[@DanKaraJordan]

The feature that I deeply miss, though, were the physical page turn buttons. Removing them actually decreased my enjoyment of the experience of reading on the Kindle.

[@AbdallahTeach]

He's not talking about ebooks but eink, the display technology. One of the devices shown in the video was marketed as a note taking business device which would be better if eink developed faster refresh rate and better vibrant colors. Old black and white eink displays for your kindles and kobos won't go anywhere

[@flavoursofsound]

The B2B market for e-ink technology is definitely much larger and has way more applications than the B2C market. Where I live they’ve started to use them at bus stops as departure boards and to display timetables, all powered by a solar panel. I’d love to get my hands on an e-ink notebook. I had no idea this existed, and would be game changing for me.

[@vertqqq]

I have severe autism

[@theprogressivemichigander6588]

Fascinating video on E-ink. What I think it misses with regards to e-readers is that they are already a basically perfected technology for most readers. I used my first ereader (a Nook) for years until its page turn buttons wore out. By the time I bought the second (a Kobo Aura H20) which I bought used, I only wanted three innovations the backlight you mentioned (which is somewhat more complicated than you described), a waterproof device so I could read in the bathtub, and a touch screen so there were fewer buttons to wear out. I used that one for 5 years until I literally wore out its power button. And I didn't want any improvements. I just bought a Kobo Clara 2e. The only difference I wanted was a sleep cover so that I would touch the power button less and it would hopefully live longer than 5 years. And my Aura H20 already had that option - I just didn't use a sleep cover on it. In my search, I was actively hostile to any devices with new features like a better processor or higher refresh rates if they burned battery life or increased cost. I already have a phone for that. I considered buying a used e reader. But I didn't like Kindle because of its monopolistic practices, didn't want a Libra H20 because I didn't want physical buttons that would break eventually, and didn't want another used Aura H20 given the price because they are already so old and I was afraid the power button wouldn't have many years left in it. So I got a new Clara 2e which I don't want any major improvements from but expect has some minor tech improvements. This fundamental satisfaction of most ebook readers with their devices and the saturation of the market with most people having one already meant the only innovation that mattered for most was a lower sticker price. Kindle temporarily delivered that with their ad subsidization style (which I dislike because it costs users more in the long run). Some manga readers might care about color e ink and some people might like being able to take notes in their books more easily, but they are tiny portions of the market. I don't think there is much room for better E-ink tech in the general ereader market. What will be interesting to me is if it ever gets to the point where an E-ink computer or tablet is viable not as an e-reader but for typing and browsing the internet outside. And given the refresh rate people expect from those devices, that's a daunting technological challenge.

[@pressrepeat2000]

Great comment. Lower price and better battery is all the “innovation” we need for readers. I want a 10”+ reader but these remain extremely expensive. Btw, the Kobo Aura H2O is a great reader, although for some reason they keep draining battery quite fast despite not being used.

[@TheInfectous]

not to be a pest but kinda an innovation isn't really about improving a product, it's more about change that provides a better experience or different experience. So for example, it could be eye tracking which marks your line progress, some sort of text analysis to provide commentary on themes, an integrated community for discussions, a reader with a focus on foreign languages and integrated translations and pronunciations for help with language acquisition stuff like that. it's not so much about improving on an existing product so much as changing the experience. those were just off the top of my head so they're probably not all that great but you get the point. as you said, the current ereader product is already really good at fulfilling it's role an innovation would be a change to the role and thus a product with different features would fill that role better.

[@vertqqq]

I have severe autism

[@Vousie]

I've been considering getting an e-reader, but also dislike the monopolistic practices of Amazon. So, where do you get your books to read if not Kindle? And is it possible to still read Kindle books on non-Kindle devices? Eg with a Kindle app or something on them?

[@PtrkHrnk]

I would like to see more e-paper in *passenger information systems* and I think it's the ideal technology for this. This industry is stuck with _monochromatic LED displays_ and rarely seen combined RGB-mono or DOT-LED displays.

[@abc98114]

Absolutely nothing wrong with current eink devices. I've had Kindles ereaders for years and they're the perfect devices for distraction-free reading and I can carry thousands of books anywhere I want. The battery life is fantastic.

[@Alex-mc5yn]

Also, why is he single-mindedly focusing on Kindles? I've been using PocketBook devices, and they never got some of the flaws he mentioned in the first place. I've never seen a single ad on my devices, not even on the 2020 one. It wasn't even more expensive than a Kindle, just what is the appeal? Proprietary format? Are there any Amazon exclusive books now? I know there are other brands as well that aren't overpriced and don't have ads.

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

@@Alex-mc5yn I think there’s some exclusive books but they’re not big releases or anything. The kindle just wins because it’s integrated with Amazon which most people have.

[@raisofahri5797]

​@@Alex-mc5ynblame amzon ecosystem, like amazon are the biggest bookseller on the world

[@no_fb]

It's not a stagnation, the e-readers simply don't need more features, I'm actually glad that they have reduced the features and optimized the device. Usually devices and software get bloated and become bugged and unreliable. You have to realize that the public for those devices are not necessarily more comfortable with a lot of useless features. Also, it's not true that Amazon wiped out all competitors, there are a number of alternatives that have been there for a long time (Nook, Kobo, Pocketbook, Cybook, ...) for e-readers and other applications (Notea, ...).

[@fearsomefawkes6724]

I don't use an e-reader, but that was my thought. In a world where every piece of tech seems to be getting more and more complex, the fa t that e-readers have simplified is it's own progress. It might not be innovative, but not everything needs to be. Ereaders seem better than innovative in some way. They're refined. They're just what they need to be and not much more. I would love if more things were like.

[@endezeichengrimm]

They need to improve the contrast on the screens though. The contrast seems to be getting worse with additional layers they add.

[@no_fb]

@@endezeichengrimm I didn't notice that. My Kindle Paperwhite has a good contrast, better than a previous device, but it's 9-year old so I can't tell for new versions. A contrast that is too high isn't automatically better anyway.

[@endezeichengrimm]

@@no_fb It is. It has to be as good as paper. I went back to paper books because of the weak contrast. One problem is the layers they add to the screen for touch and lights and waterproofing.

[@no_fb]

@@endezeichengrimm Ask a replacement, you must have received a faulty device.

[@logicalfundy]

1:00 - well, there is one category I can think of - graphing calculators. Probably because of strict requirements to be used in standardized tests, as they can't cross the line between a calculator and an actual personal computer. Of course, if they were to become more powerful they'd also get to the point where you might as well buy a cell phone. I imagine that is its own rabbit hole, maybe for a future video?

[@MistyMountainMedia]

My daily used Kindle Voyage is still going strong after almost 8 years and the difference to todays Paperwhite in menu speed is really not that big to sanction an upgrade.

[@rrwholloway]

And the buttons on the side are fantastic.

[@MarkReed-smokindeist]

My old Touch is working well but I am considering replacing the battery. There is a company that sells replacement kits and even includes the tools and a video showing you how to do it. My Touch is no longer my main Kindle but it is a good back up device now since it still works. I just got a Paperwhite SE for my birthday earlier this month.

[@JorgeAFlores]

I like the big bezels, it's easier to hold without touching the display, for a book I think it's better to keep it simple, instead of turn them in a tablet.

[@Darhan62]

I worked at Borders while they had a relationship with Kobo in the late 2000s. We kind of thought E-ink and readers based on other paper-like reflective screen technologies were going to become a bigger thing than they ended up being, now over ten years later. It never got to the point where I felt I was wasting money by continuing to buy old-school physical books made of cloth and paper. Time will tell whether "synthetic paper" will catch on, or make a significant dent in the market for books made with real paper.

[@dwsel]

I recently got ONYX and I love to use it. I use it majorly for reading musical score when I don't want to turn on the computer (blue light sensitivity). I started learning piano recently, so it's a lot of short, 2-3 staff exercises. I decided it's easier to keep everything in PDFs rather than print every one of these exercises on the paper. I can take seamlessly notes about what I play, how far did I go during the learning or other things like "focus more on this thing". For the second use I'm happy to do occasional session of Sudoku and Nonogram - it's great experience for a pen accuracy it offers, and Android system allowed me to install the applications I like the most. So it's the openness and writing features for me. Also looking forward wider adoption of transreflective monitors in the future.

[@GalaxyFur]

With Amazon having such a massive head start and having by far the most robust book and audiobook marketplace in the world, most competitors have found it nearly impossible to compete with Kindle. Plus Amazon just has by far the biggest pockets to fund their E-readers. And it's the market that has shaped the Kindle. The whole fact that the Kindle is super simple is why book lovers like it so much. The last thing bookworms want is distractions. They don't want a ton of features and applications that give out notifications. If you want that, that's what tablets like the iPad Mini are for. The only competitors that are viable apart from the Kindle today are basically just the Barnes and Nobile "Nook" and the "Kobo" E-readers. The Nook at least does have a decent library behind it since it has access to Barnes And Noble's catalog of titles which is quite extensive to be fair. And Kobo is more popular outside of the U.S. market since some Kindle features are not available outside of the U.S. marketplace. But the Kindle still dominates globally. And especially in the United States which is by far the largest E-reader market in the world. The Kindle has full access to the world's largest online book retailer and it's fully compatible with the U.S. public library system with E-pub files and the Libby app. And the tech that Kindles do have, is on par or is better than competing E-readers. All Kindles now have the latest E-Ink displays available with 300 PPI displays across the entire range now. They have water resistance on some models. Dark modes and warm lights. Very nice note-taking abilities and other features a bookworm would want. But again they only give the features a bookworm would want. And Kindles keep it simple because that is what readers want. So a competitor needs to know this and tailor their devices to readers first. Not tech enthusiasts. Because otherwise, the public won't buy into them. The reading public wants the best reading device. Not the fanciest tech devise. Again that's what tablets and cell phones are for.

[@leons.kennedy4596]

I know this is a year later but its exactly this if I wanted fancy stuff I can happen to read a book on I’d have just got a regular ol’ tablet I wanted something specifically for reading. Everything he complained about, the storage, the bezel I love. 16 gigs is more than enough for me and the bezel gives be something to hold without blocking the page.

[@wyprutas]

Let's look at the "cons" that you mentioned: - Slow, black & white screens - I don't need beautiful and fast screen to read ebooks. If I want one, I'll just grab iPad - Fat bezels - it's definitely a pro, not a con. You need them to hold your ebook reader properly. - Cheap plastics - don't mind that if the price is right - 16GB storage - almost nobody needs more that this because it translates to about 7000 ebooks on my device.

[@gailcbull]

E-ink technology has potential as a brainstorming tool. I'm a writer who has given up on brainstorming apps because they just don't seem to work for me. When brainstorming ideas, I always default to pen and paper. If you could also make them compatible with book composition apps (such as Scrivener and Ulysses), I -- along with many writers -- would happily make the switch.

[@Kallasticot]

There are e-ink monitors like Dasung or Onyx Mira so I guess your can do that.

[@陳毅澂-c3h]

I believe some technology that can integrate traditional media (e.g. pen and paper) and technical devices is another possible and potential choice. For example, something can sync your notebook (the thing you use in school, not the computer you carry around) with, say, Notion. Whatever you write on paper there will be a page automatically generated on your Notion. It will be amazing but I cannot imagine any technology capable of doing so.

[@marsdeat]

It's funny you mention e-ink 'finally' hitting the pricetag space, because i know electronic pricetags definitely hit France in the late 90s during the Franc/Euro changeover... Most of them were 7-segment LCDs, but I was sure I saw some eink tags in a couple of shops in the early 00s in France too.

[@TechAltar]

Yeah, they existed for a long time, but were sold in small quantities, so they drove no real innovation. Now with better wireless chips and better software, it has become easier to manage all the price tags from a central computer and have them update automatically and reliably, which drives higher volumes, and in exchange more progress in display technologies

[@93dzrv24]

In my opinion e-readers don't need too many functionalities. Having too many features might be distracting. I don't need a keyboard, but I wish they had better refresh rates.

[@Inkling777]

The bezels are fine. They make holding it easier. Where Amazon has failed is adding support for a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. The former would make taking notes easier. The latter would be great for page turning, particularly for those with mobility issues.

[@Draconicrose]

I bought an eReader early this year and I absolutely love it. It is THE way to read ebooks for me. I do feel the lack of color though, especially when books include illustrations, but not enough to rush out to look for a color eInk device. The device I ended up buying was the Onyx Boox Poke 3. It runs a customized Android with a relatively simple process to activate the Play Store, which was important to me because I've cultivated a varied ebook ecosystem that avoids Kindle as much as possible. That said, the Kindle Oasis has such a nice form-factor that I seriously considered trying to get one set up with a custom ROM. In the end I could not justify the price for that. I think if Onyx copied the Oasis' form-factor, in a device around the 200€ mark, they would have a lot of success.

[@sergeyts3350]

Onyx has Leaf 2, it looks almost like Oasis

[@skirata3144]

@@sergeyts3350 It looks like it but at 300€ it’s sadly ~50% to expensive where I am to get to that 200€ mark.

[@jetseverschuren]

My e-reader can last a month on a single charge. I only need it to read books, nothing more. For all other stuff I have my phone and laptop

[@darrsil]

I am looking at a ReMarkable or Kindle Scribe simply for note taking. I think that should be the main focus for companies going forward - there are a lot of people looking to ditch paper notes and eInk tablets make the best case for that. The problem is they're still a little pricey, but I hope as more competitors come onto the market the prices will fall.

[@furmek]

Price is not the only problem here. If you are thinking about going digital with your notes you would probably like to take an advantage of the features that going digital offers. While remarkable hardware is really good their software, compared to something like OneNote from Microsoft, looks like a students weekend project. I've sent remarkable back and just went with an ipad + onenote + paper feel screen protector. This market, digital note taking devices, requires both the hardware and software to be good, hopefully we will get there one day.

[@TMAC_burninator]

I bought both generations of the ReMarkable tablet. It's great for note taking or simple sketches (I'm no artist). A device focused on doing a few things well is sometimes the better solution.

[@kevinfisher5492]

Ah so THAT's what those digital price signs are...they all just appeared at my local hardware store and it hadn't even occurred to me that they were e-ink based.

[@vertqqq]

I have severe autism

[@AindriuMacGiollaEoin]

Books are largely black and white and the new kindle is great for reading in restricted areas. The latest Kindle is a great experience, wide bezels are useful, utilitarian

[@drachna]

For the price and the size, I really think that the basic Amazon Kindle is a fantastic deal. You complained about 16GBs of storage not being enough in 2022. My Kindle has 8GBs of storage, and that's enough space to store more books than I own physically (300+) with maybe a library's worth of free storage space left over. The ads also never activate unless you turn on WiFi, and you can easily side load books with the included usb cable. Kindle has viable competitors like Kobo, and while it does definitely have a massive share of the market, this has hardly stopped them from creating more advanced devices. When it comes to high resolution, coloured e-readers for comics or whatever, I'd agree that your options are limited, but at that point I think you'd have a much better experience on a cheap tablet either way.

[@babylemurman]

Kindle didn't change much because it didn't need to. Not every product category needs constant innovation and updates. If the product does the thing that it's supposed to do well, then that's good enough.

[@Harsh-mg2em]

It's true, but I also think that however he phrased it, he meant it more like E-ink technology, rather than just Ebook readers.

[@MammothBehemoth]

E-ink screen manufacturers should targer all the smaller led displays like in appliances, clocks, calculators, POS, ATMs, photo frame or even car media system. Small incremental improvements over a large forgivable market is what made LED what it is now. Sure e-displays can make that move too

[@splicetape9435]

Personally I've been hoping for a decently priced e-ink computer monitor. Spreadsheets, writing, reading code, etc would have their advantages.

[@vertqqq]

I have severe autism

[@Meower68]

What I would like to see (related) is a laptop with a full-color LCD / OLED (as currently made) plus a couple e-ink "shutters" which swing out. If you're working on a spreadsheet, you might use the LCD for that but data to which you're referring could sit on one of the shutters; they would be slow to refresh but, honestly, do you really need a high refresh rate for reference info? Put your calendar / schedule one one of the shutters. Maybe have a your group chat on one of the shutters; mine tends to update a couple times per minute so a low refresh rate isn't a killer. This would give you a laptop which feels like it has multiple monitors (large, widescreen in the middle with a couple portrait-orientation "wings" on either side). Assuming the hinges were designed properly, you'd fold the shutters in over the display, then fold the display / shutters down over the keyboard (the hinge between upper and lower sections would have to accommodate the thickness of the shutters). E-ink tends to be pretty thin so this wouldn't add much thickness / weight to the laptop and e-ink is very power-stingy so minimal impact on the battery. Even if the e-ink shutters were greyscale, not color, that would still be very useful.

[@mdjey2]

If someone manages to get just one thing perform exceptional with e-ink, it will be a game changer. Imagine if someone makes great colours, it doesn't matter how bad is refresh rate, you can use that for photo frames alone and it will be available in every store that sells random stuff.

[@012vinc]

7:55 I think one important factor why the remarkable was more successful than sony's device was the price. I remember the latter being of A4 size and costing nearly 1000€. The remarkable on the other hand has a smaller (more or less A5) form factor and costs less than half as much. I'm quite exited about how the industry will develop and hope the next generation of products will have a color display build in.

[@Ghi102]

Black and White Android is the next step for me. There are some apps that I use to read (RSS for blogs, apps for books other than Kindle but still in a proprietary format, pdfs, etc.). Being locked to Kindle or pdfs is what I don't like about my Kindle. More flexibility is what I want

[@jackmaxwell3134]

ONE simple explanation: People don't read that much. So: not so many sales, not so many makers: By the way, Eink is in fact a BRAND: electronic paper screens of ALL READERS are produced by ONLY ONE Taiwan company. That explains the lacks of innovation.

[@Voxavs]

Bought a boox note air 2 a month or so ago and I love the device. There are some wrinkles to it, but I like that I can use it as a notebook\sketchbook. The drawing experience is way better than I expected and compared to something like iPad it is a much less demanding device. The only real downside is weight, it is kinda heavy and best used on a surface. That being said unlike the traditional tablets you should have at least a couple of good reasons and use cases in mind before you buy one of these. I bought one primarily for drawing and reading and it does what I need it to do.

[@succusage3966]

If they ever release a color version im getting it instantly

[@bradleystone6498]

You do knowe that the color version is out, right? @@succusage3966

[@cameroncz3197]

@@succusage3966 You have now color version. Boox Note Air 3 C is the successor of NA 2 but with colors and Boox Super Refresh.

[@Jmcinally94]

This is quite anecdotal and probably doesn't account for much of the market share, but the DIY smart home crowd are really embracing e-ink as well! With the price of these displays going down and the energy consumption of the ESP32s needed to display on them, they're a really energy efficient way to quickly display information that can run off batteries on a relatively small form factor!

[@FisherGrubb]

Onyx actually made note taking readers since Sony released their 1st one around 2012 or so. Remarkable came later 😉

[@yadisfhaddad722]

I would definitely buy to one of these e-paper tablets if: 1. Become compatible with Google's AI character recognition, so I can see my notes either in sketch mode or typed mode. Recognition is crucial if you want to quick search your notes 2. Is fully compatible with Notion I hate ipad screens, as my eyes are very sensitive, and this would be a great alternative for productivity.

[@samp.8975]

What about boox devices which support android OS ?

[@HopelesslyDetermined]

E ink is for reading it's enough when you are reading and flip through pages, you have to understand the benefits of something through assessing its functionality in its intended use, it's more than enough for reading

[@olafzijnbuis]

I got myself a Kobo Clare 2E a few months ago. I use it for reading and I don't care about extra features. 16 GByte is a lot for e-books. My Kobo came with some extra features, but they are easily ignored and do not interfere with my reading. What I care about: - Good display - Adjustable font type and size - Adjustable margins - Long battery life - A nice, even front lighting of the display with warmer colors in the evening and night An E-ink display is perfect for this.

[@jbaidley]

I still feel like the missing link is 60fps. Once you can make a 60fps ePaper it can be used in monitors, in normal tablets, in phones, etc. I think people will find that passive lighting is just so much nicer on the eyes that some compromise will be accepted, but it needs to play good looking video or it just ain't going to hit the mainstream in the big way.

[@Arcad3n]

Wow, I have never thought about this before because you always think of e-paper as a totally separate thing from normal screens, but if e-paper screens were as fast as regular ones, you could totally use one as a full-on replacement. Not only would it be nicer on the eyes, no backlight means battery life on phones would be essentially solved without even making any changes to the battery. That could actually be a good enough use case to justify a place in the market for that type of device. I don’t think the Pebble failed because of its non-backlit screen, it was outside market factors and being from a tech startup (a very difficult place to start from in the phone and smartwatch fields). So I think an e-paper smartwatch that could give you an extremely long battery life would be super useful for so many reasons too.

[@andrevc85]

I think you didnt watch or didnt understand the video: e-Ink wont ever be high refresh rate since it was designed to save battery, not to compete against lcds. you cant move the ink fast enough, as it is swimming in oil, there is a physical limitation. this restriction is by design . as the technology matures we'll get more colors , smoother transitions and less flickering, but never high fps.

[@ScooterCat64]

@@andrevc85 Never say never when it comes to technology, perhaps they will find better ways to move it around/discover a better material for the job. Even if it wouldn't be as power efficient, there is still lots of appeal for a non-glowing screen you can actually see. I would personally buy one for my pc if it could do 60 fps

[@maywe9]

still clinging to my Pebbles! Love it, and sadly my Kindle! But my wife has gone into Pocketbook E-reader and its impressive as well!

[@SimonNeilScott]

I personally don't mind what the Kindle currently is. I bought a newer USBC one this year and still love it. The ease of pulling books from Amazon directly in seconds and as a device, it works and looks beautiful IMO. I appreciate the simplicity of what it is, in an age of everything needing to be overly engineered and complex and "smart". But... It is long overdue to have colour eink Kindle screens for reading comics or graphic novels and the UI on Kindle could be better. But honestly, that's my only gripe. My last Kindle, before my new one this year, lasted around 4-5 years. I only replaced it for the battery and USBC charging.

[@MarkReed-smokindeist]

There is a company that has battery replacement kits for Kindles. They even have kits that include the tools and a video on how to change the battery. The process doesn't look too difficult. That way you can keep your old one as a backup or gift it to someone who could use an e-book.

[@A2ne]

"I don't know of any other personal computing device category that has been so slow to progress" Graphing calculators...

[@mistersparrow]

Echoing a lot of what others have said here: I love the thick bezels and the fact that my kindle can pretty much only do one thing - let me read with ease. I've been heavily using my kindle for 10 years and its perfect the way that it is. I would love an e-ink display for other things for sure, but for books I'm glad to have this separate, single type of use device.

[@Chris-yc3mm]

I've looked into this a couple of times over the last few years and what put me off getting one was drm and different library's only supporting one or another format (never all) and some are now mandating android/ios apps. The whole point of using a ebook reader is that its as quick as a book and with eink is less strain on your eyes with a battery that lasts for ages. + thick bezels make it easier to hold. I use my tablet vertically and thin bezels and a camera now the side in portrait mode means you are always pressing something you don't mean to, or the camera triggers auto lock or brightness adjustment

[@IMBlakeley]

Have a look at Calibre, it will convert between most formats and with the right plugins remove DRM. I always strip the DRM from my books so I am not reliant on Amazon et al.

[@GiulianoReali]

Like others have said, the kindle is perfect for reading books and it doesn't really need any bells and whistles. What a strange take for a guy so knowledgeable like you.

[@Thomas-yv5yw]

it's not about ebooks getting bells and whistles, it's about finding new products that use eink screens / finding other purposes for eink.

[@GiulianoReali]

@@Thomas-yv5yw I understand, but he's criticizing e-readers for not evolving, as if they are lacking features which in fact they aren't (for reading ebooks).

[@oneniggo]

I find it odd that you've ignored the fact that in your and my country, Germany, tolino is the leading ebook reader brand, which is interesting because it isn't a product from "Big Tech" but sold by the German book retailers. So it isn't really marketed towards tech but reading enthusiasts which makes a lot of sense

[@KikiYushima]

I won't say I was an early adopter of e-ink (2019) but I'm a complete shill for the market. I was originally on Mobiscribe but that was too small for me, so I upgraded to reMarkable like six months later. I was a happy user for a while until they introduced the subscription model. I switched over to Supernote in June of this year (after having preordered the A5X in March due to the Shanghai lockdowns) and I'm happier than ever. I'm so glad I don't have to use paper anymore with as much as I tended to go through the stuff. I also carried a ton of it everywhere. Literally over 5lbs of it went with me everywhere. Now I just carry a single-shoulder bag with my SN in it.

[@_alexanderd]

What I really don't understand about the modern e-ink readers is that why the screen background have become so grey??? I have an 12 years old Kindle 4 which has a better screen contrast than modern Kindle Oasis(sold it) and Kobo Libra H2O(will sell it too). And the backlight on these vanishes the feeling of paper(which is the main benefit of e-ink to me). So my good old Kindle is old and I'd love to upgrade it to have large screen and larger ppi. But I can't because there's literally no replacements for it on the market. The mentioned DES technology doesn't have that contrast issue. It looks promising but it may take a few years for it to find it's way to the consumer devices.

[@niyikes]

I agree that the innovation of e-ink readers has been slow, but that's one of the things that I love about them. 16GB of storage is more than enough for me, as it can hold thousands of books, which is perfect for my needs. Plus, I prefer the simplicity of e-readers as it minimizes distractions, allowing me to focus solely on reading. If I wanted more features, I'd just buy an iPad. But for reading purposes, an e-reader is all I need. Keep it simple and stick to what's important, reading.

[@joeonejoeone]

This is my friend's second Kindle. kzbin.infoUgkxOnUR4NaproSbBbD2sdI4XcDZ58Jz8GOx The first one which is about 5 or 6 years old quit charging because the bottom connector went bad. When I saw they upgraded to a USB C connector I knew it was time. I think the old USB Micro connectors are a PIA. Her new one is great. It synced right out of the box and connected to WiFi immediately. The thing is perfect! Sooo mine will arrive tomorrow. (Been reading off an old Fire) What bugs me are the reviewers that give this product one star because it didn't work out of the box or they were too dumb to figure it out. If it doesn't work send it back and get another one. It couldn't be easier with Amazon. Giving it one star because it didn't work says nothing about a good one that does work. I bet a bad one is one in a thousand or more. Give it a break...just get another one.

[@khoonibilla]

Yes i am one of those 9 people who loves my amazfit bip watch with same transreflective display as it can easily do 10-15 days with all health tracking enabled and Always on display which I believe to be the most essential feature of a watch. I don't understand why everyone else settled with having these black blank dials on their wrists and charging watches every goddamn day. I wish they made a more premium version of my watch as it looks like a toy watch compared to what market has these days.

[@darcieclements4880]

Biggest issue with kindle is it blocks third party books or doesn't make them accessable. I don't know if it is all models but my Mom returned hers because it didn't work with the library nor did it work with the big free book databases.

[@LA-py2iu]

If the library uses Libby, it will work with the kindle. It definitely stinks it doesn’t run all “kindle” books like textbooks, but it works with more library books at my library than I expected.

[@ak19910716]

I'm still rocking my pebble time after all these years and it still does exactly what I need it for: telling time, getting push notifications to see if I can ignore the messages and last a few days before needing to recharge.

[@tno1990]

Everyone sharing thire warmth with him was really touching 😭

[@cheetoritos]

Was going to get up in arms and defend the recent improvements, but then I watched the rest of the video. EInk has really come a long way. I think the main issue is that Kindle (the only real interaction most people have with the technology) has not. I got an Onyx BOOX device this year (the Nova Air C I see you also have}, and while it's not on the same level as an iPad, it blew me away! You could actually scroll through UIs instead of a big flashing mess or the full refresh that Kindles do. And the frustrating part is that the different display/refresh modes are baked into the display. There's no reason other than complacency/laziness why Amazon can't take advantage of this to make their Kindle devices a better experience.

[@timweckerle2420]

I am personally very interested in e-ink Smartphones. The downsides of low refreshrates are clear, but an eInk display on an an otherwise normal Anroid would in my opinion provide most of the convenience of a modern smartphone while removing a lot of the distraction of a brightly coloured, flickering screen. There some option on the chinese market like the Hisense A5 etc. but unfortunately there will be now google support for these, soon.

[@dragontears]

I have the boox Nova Air C, and while it isn't perfect by any stretch, since it runs android, I can fully see how it would and could replace my Google Pixel if given the chance and I wish I had the option. Losing the camera would suck, but I would fully consider it to save my eyes some strain. And maybe I'd get the Polaroid Ive been talking myself out of.

[@Soguwe]

Never understood why color e-ink didn't proliferate earlier It would be perfect for comics

[@ricksandstorm]

I guess it's because most manga is black and white, most manwa is design for scrolling and most people who read western comics want physical copies.

[@Soguwe]

@@ricksandstorm true, true But ebooks already attract the kind of people who prefer digital bookshelves Giving them more options of things to buy wouldn't hurt Especially when you're the company selling to them

[@Otome_chan311]

The big issue is that color e-ink is expensive af. $400 for the cheapest devices. The colors are really muted/washed out as well. but I love my color e-ink tablet honestly.

[@Soguwe]

@Kafke but that's from the perspective of now In a few years color eink will be cheaper and better Had it started proliferated earlier, that could be now

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

Sure there isn't much innovation but it's not really needed, the big bezels are more comfortable, the low storage is fine for most people as the book files are super tiny, the devices are already super thin and lite with great writing features, crazy long battery life, and having both a warm light and a cool light to adjust is really all 99% of ereader user would want, and it's the standard. The one place ereaders can really innovate is the color screens, but even then that's only really useful for a niche portion of people, mostly for comics or drawing, but eink colors look terrible and often make the black and white picture look worse as well, on top of usually costing more. Comics look fantastic on an oled screen and most people have a large oled screen in their pocket that looks way better than color eink, it's hard to build interest. The only other real innovation I can think of is improving ghosting and refresh rates which again 99% of people don't care, it'd only really be useful for monitors

[@magnuspetzenhauser2770]

When you have a colorful, high refresh rate, quick/snappy chip e-reader it will just be a distracting smartphone kind of play-thingy. I love the simple ones that let you focus just on the written word, no images, no distractions. This is such a beautiful contrast to literally any other tec nowadays!

[@xxizcrilexlxx1505]

Ik a year late and all Imagine e ink displays on low performance phones Hell imagine the tech goes far enough to go toe to toe with oled screen and such I would love a decent high rate screen even if its Just black and white so my retinas dont die after working on a project all day

[@andreavaleri0]

I can't wait for new e-paper tablets. Honestly, reMarkable II is in my wish list and I plan to buy it next year. But there is an inherent limit of this kind of tech, the time that we should (or phisically can) stare at screens, and there is also a matter of preference and dynamism, like the willingness to read a good book in real paper (although unpractical if you travel), and the need to check or cross-,reference multiple files at the same time. As a reference, I bought my phone at around EUR220 3 years ago and a tablet at around EUR160 six years ago, but I would definitely invest EUR1000-1200 if that means increasing my productivity, read, work on docs, and use a tablet(or whatever device) like I would do with real paper.

[@cinialvespow1054]

an epaper screen is essentially not a screen. Just in the same way that a piece of book paper is paper with a bunch of black dots printed on it, with e paper you're looking at a surface with some dots turned black. I imagine the level of eye strain you get is the same as with paper but maybe it's still worse idk.

[@victoriab8186]

the 'screen' on these is so different to a light-source screen (except I guess when you have front-lighting turned on in the modern kindles) - it's the light that causes the issues in staring at screen for a long time, and the whole point of these screens is that they don't have that issue.

[@hb-robo]

@@cinialvespow1054the only time it’s as bad as a screen is when you turn the frontlight on.

[@YanhaoRenDMM]

For me the amazon kindle's problem isnt really about the refresh rate or colors Its the lack of a good UI and software framework that made me return it I got one for my gf thinking it can help her with her school work. But we found out it is not compatible with many basic apps and a lot of her textbook wont be accessible on the device

[@insertnamehere6559]

Surprised there was no mention of foldable e ink that was shown off a few months ago! It's really neat. The idea of an e-reader that can be properly adjusted with multiple pages like a true book is super interesting.

[@labonnelambda58]

An other comment mentioned a japan e-reader called eOneBook (made for mangas) which has two virtual pages and use real paper around the product to feels like a real book.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

I think Google, Amazon, and Apple are all very well positioned to introduce products with much wider appeal. Color eInk display, e-mail client, web browser, book reader. That's all it needs. Something akin to the original product mission of the iPad - a magazine reader. Web browser helps it double as a digital newspaper as well.

[@samsawesomeminecraft]

Thanks for making a hands-on video about e-ink displays!

[@Antares-dw9iv]

I think it's also a matter of simply being good enough. The only improvements that could be made with respect to e-readers would be extremely incremental and in a very saturated marked that's a hard sell.

[@anonym3017]

at this point the only possible improvement from a functionality perspective is a higher resolution. but even that is only useful when looking at pictures/illustrations on the device.

[@janedoe3043]

I got mad as soon as e-ink was pushed aside because I wanted a future where our TVs were e-ink paintings.

[@theabelmontero]

Mistborn! 🖤

[@TheShadoDragon]

Well, maybe at some point we will finally see an e-ink device that fits all types of books. Why should I buy an e-ink device that has trouble with manga, comics etc. (the really slow speed when turning a page, the ghosting, the inability to zoom in when you can´t read some text on a panel...)? And then we have workbooks with which you can´t interact (e.g. fill in the tasks in the book). And at least in my experience, PDFs aren´t that great of an experience, too. And when a lot of my books have graphs in them and those are in colour to differentiate lines etc. I really hope we get something that let´s us read all types of books on one device.

[@Harleigh_19]

Just got my first Kindle Paperwhite after years of resisting one and I absolutely love it. The only thing that bugs me is the slow/flickering transitions but it’s not the end of the world 🤷🏼‍♀️…

[@TheAdamie]

I don’t think this guy understands what an e-reader is for…

[@gorofujita5767]

I think way too many people confuse the predicate of the debate around e-ink. For example, one such confusion is the idea of mistaking the e-ink display technology for the idea of an e-reader (the minimalist device in itself) With the bottom line being this: E-Ink does *not* have to be circumscribed to E-readers. I for one, can only hope e-ink will continue to evolve infinitely, to the point it can literally be used on laptops if needed. And the reason for that is very simple for me: Eyecare and eye health. There's no greater joy than being able to look for hours at a display, do your work, and not feel any eyestrain at all. The other is for example, being able to take your laptop/tablet outside on a bright sunny day, and do whatever you have to do. I really wish there were e-ink tablets that had the full features (or near full features) of a tablet, and would allow us for -- for example -- use some fully featured piece of software, like MS Word, Notion or Obsidian anywhere. At least for me, it would be a huge revolution.

[@toorero]

In Germany we have Thalia which is pushing Tolino very hard, not sure how "popular" they are but my first e-reader is a Tolino too. Basically my appeal to get an e-reader was the ability to read e-books (via this stupid Adobe DRM system I forgot the name) from my local library much easier. Also I didn't want to be locked into "Kindle e-books" so I got a Tolino. But maybe they support EPUB and Adobe DRM now

[@OmDesk]

I have the first Remarkable and have to say that I'd love to have a android one since I finished my bachelor so I read more than notetaking and the only way for me to do that was to sync it with google drive and send the ebook file to it. BUT, 1 huge advantage is that you are concentrated on your current work or books since the 1st gen dont have alot of storage.

[@MineCrafterCity]

Most even have a micro USB. It's insane.