Putin orders retreat from Kherson: Ukrainian victory or Russian trap | Ukraine: The Latest | Podcast

Day 260. Today, after Russia announces its retreat from Kherson city, we discuss the implications of what some are calling the most significant moment in the war since the Ukrainian counteroffensive began.
But is this really the triumph it appears - a damning defeat for Russian forces? Or is there more to it than meets the eye?
Contributors:
David Knowles (Host). Follow David on Twitter @DjKnowles22.
Roland Oliphant (Senior Reporter). Follow Roland on Twitter @RolandOliphant.
Joe Barnes (Brussels Correspondent). Follow Joe on Twitter @Barnes_Joe.
Francis Dearnley (Assistant Comment Editor). Follow Francis on Twitter @FrancisDearnley.
Email: [e-mail]
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[@jimrt1738]

Believe what the Russian do not what they say.

[@john_in_phoenix]

This American feels that a negotiated peace is possible when Russia is defeated and back to their pre 2014 borders. I may be biased since my wife is from Kherson, and her twin escaped to Kyiv after their father died in May. That really bothers me, her father was a decorated Red Army veteran from WWII and he had to live to see his home occupied by the Russians. Update, my brother in law just texted me that Russian troops have started to withdraw from Kherson (his home). The most accurate location he gives me is that he is between Mykoliave and Kherson (yes, he and his son are in the Ukrainian army).

[@234cheech]

yep i think thats the plan

[@thetruthshallsetyoufree1700]

We should now seize the frozen Russia funds and use that money to supply Ukraine with all the military hardware and ammo they need to push the Orcs out of Ukraine 💯

[@trioguitar]

I would not view that as a biased comment at all. Ukraine has its sights on liberating the whole of Ukraine sovereign territory, which is their right of course, any nation would be aiming to do the exact same thing under the circumstances.

[@ericwillis777]

Thank your family for saving Europe from another Russian occupation.

[@luke_skywanker7643]

Don't forget War Reparations. Russians need to pay for every damned thing they smashed up in Ukraine and their War Criminals need to go on trial.

[@2Bad681]

It would be foolish not to tread cautiously

[@andyreznick]

"It's a TRAP!" - A. Akbar

[@toddr2265]

The Russian special operation in Kherson has been completed. All toilets and appliances have been secured and moved to the motherland.

[@SteveWallis2]

Great podcast

[@joebott3728]

Excellent coverage..the best

[@zapfanzapfan]

I remember thinking at the start of the war, "send plastic screens to put in the windows to at least make the buildings weather tight"... did no one else think the same? It doesn't restore the heating but at least it could keep the wind and snow out.

[@rainbowguan6096]

Top shelf reporting. Thanks! HIMARS air burst shells on the few Russian muster points to cross the Dnieper. Ouch. Maybe that threat would help convince the Russians to behave honorably on the way out. No wonton mining!

[@osric1730]

They have dumpling mines in Kherson? What a wanton extravagance...

[@RobBCactive]

The UAF is punishing Ruzzian invasion forces as they are funnelling into choke points. Remember the crossings have been under interdiction for a long time and UAF artillery has gained space to fire from as the lines fold

[@rainbowguan6096]

@@osric1730 Doh！Sorry. “wanton”😂 😂😂 But seriously … yes. Deterrence is not deterrence unless it is communicated. 😎

[@osric1730]

@@rainbowguan6096 Easy mistake, just one letter. Just couldn't resist a little friendly taking the piss.😀

[@pabloc88886]

Mark Milley's comments may be intended to demonstrate to the global community that the US is a responsible world leader committed to a peaceful outcome in Ukraine - countering China's official (and two-faced) posture...He may also be speaking to a home audience, some of whom are questioning unchecked support for Ukraine. Either way, the US will surely remain Ukraine 's most important backer...

[@luke_skywanker7643]

Whatever we can send to help them. We need to send it. They either put Putin's Russia back in the box or he'll do something to get a World War going. And, of course, that means nukes. And if the world fights a war with nukes, the survivors will be fighting the next war with sticks.

[@kilimarshal2397]

Joe biden been holding back. no Abrams or fighter jets left even tho congress set aside money for training Ukrainian on those vehicle. This war could end in month if president grow back bone . Imagine just all civiilians dead and being tortured and sick rapes of little boys infront of there mother and switch off to the mother while son has to watch. not to mention genocide pretty much been proven. Bill clintion where the no fly zone.

[@terrywayneHamilton]

"Go for it". " Keep em running ".

[@riqpate7122]

Yep UA can winter.fight, and they can't let Evil catch a breath. Putin's pillars will crumble when Ukraine crosses the Dniper to stand at Crimea.

[@fairman1455]

thanks for the detailed incite

[@stevenweiss2575]

The water delivery to Crimea is of course on the east bank, and thus despite the retreat, still firmly in Russian control. To be honest, despite being a string supporter if Ukraine, I was never in favor of cutting off Crimea's water. First it is not a relevant military strategic action, rather an attack on civilian infrastructure precisely in line with what outrages the world concerning much of Russia's action against the Ukranian energy infrastructure. Second, it has a very negative effect on public opinion in Crimea, which in the long-term will be extremely difficult if not impossible for Ukraine to reverse.

[@timtrewyn453]

Kherson is not liberated until Russian field artillery has been pushed out of range. All Ukrainian cities are subject to long range Russian missiles. Ukraine needs a bigger and more effective air force, more ISR, a steady influx of well trained troops into the battlespace, and ATACMS to get to its internationally recognized borders. Russia is now moving in favor of its own logistics and Ukraine is becoming more extended. Taking Crimea involves amphibious capability that Ukraine is a long way from having. Recovering all of its territory and holding requires Ukraine to bring about the collapse of Russian forces in the field.

[@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl]

As I understand the information by the Biden government right, Ukraine got already missiles of a range of 60 miles and 150 miles for the HIMARS. They, Biden, said "They don't get 300 miles range rockets from us.".

[@hellfire9145]

Absolutely. The Ukrainians should NOT let the Russcists withdraw to the south side of the Dniepr. Hold threm as hostage in Kherson, use drone and other firepower to attack any little boats trying to cross.the river. Putin'sgeneralsmauy have foundf it "hot" in Kherson. Makew the buggers boil in the Kherson caildronl .

[@davidelliott5843]

HIMARS has a longer range than Russian artillery which must be used to take out weapons stores, transport hubs and of course guns and dumb rocket launchers.

[@bobsamuels8570]

Whatever, as long as the US the West, NATO and the EU don't start telling Ukraine to negotiate a settlement. Putin and the Russian Military must be defeated completely and driven entirely from Ukraine territory. Since 2014 Russia has been supporting incursion, bombing and raids into Ukraine, they will just continue what they have been doing, Ukraine knows it because they have lived it. Russia has not honored any of the agreements they have made, it would be foolish to assume they would honor another.

[@timtrewyn453]

@@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl Yes. And they need those 300-mile range missiles to push Russian air and naval base ops further back into Russia. I somewhat understand the "escalation" concerns, but Ukraine can't get to and hold its recognized border unless it can seriously threaten Russian logistics used to support the next invasion.

[@sspacegunn21]

And so it begins...

[@lostpony4885]

It can be both a victory and a trap, of course.

[@RobBCactive]

Ruzzia trapped itself, withdrawal is way too late, funnelling through 2 choke points under accurate artillery

[@luke_skywanker7643]

@@RobBCactive Thin 'em out while it's easy. Otherwise, they'll be back to fight again.

[@AbsheronskiGagash]

Это очередной ход Путина , только умные и далневилные люди понимают чем дышит Путин .Вам не победит Россию , если Россия захочет до и Берлина дойдет .Путин страгет .любить играть шахматы.

[@namthomson1124]

Thanks 🙏

[@chillijoe8264]

the best analysis to be found anywhere.

[@koja69]

No, it isn't.

[@odinbiflindi]

NO.

[@mastercommander4535]

Note withdrawals are not the same as retreats ..please make that clear in your reports .

[@Cloudman572]

What is the difference?

[@thecfbutcher1174]

Please explain KZbin commander.

[@mastercommander4535]

@@Cloudman572 in military terms , withdrawals are changes in positions which are specifically planned prior to execution and form part of a manoeuvre that is deliberate and for the most part carried out in reasonably good order . A retreat is the above but without proper order and or planning usually executed under pressure and could become a rout where order and command is lost and it’s more or less everyone for themselves .Dunkirk was a retreat dressed up as a withdrawal for public consumption. However fell short thankfully of being a rout …85 year old retired veteran .

[@mastercommander4535]

@@thecfbutcher1174 see response to cloudman

[@eddiel7635]

Isn’t a withdrawal under fire called a retreat? A withdrawal whilst not being under fire would be a withdrawal.

[@tedzehnder961]

Instead of rushing into Kherson they should concentrate long range artillery on Russian rear areas on the east side of the Dnipro at their third line which has their own artillery.Don`t give the Russians a reason to to just destroy the city without pressure.Gaining a patch of ground isn`t the best use of resources.Dislodging and demoralizing dug in positions is what counts in the long run.

[@emigrator08]

I think they should encircle Kherson and seig it.

[@thecfbutcher1174]

Ted, lead me into battle.

[@luke_skywanker7643]

@@thecfbutcher1174 Ted don't "F" around.👍👍

[@r3fundablesubs]

How about fixing a room or two, for sleeping and one to prepare meals. Of course people need heat and water. Even a central place to accommodate more.

[@christianleblanc2842]

Re the G20 meeting, I expect that Putin doesn't dare leave Russia, lest a coup takes place in his absence.

[@elspeth8476]

Does it present a large difficulty for Ukraine to not have more air power?

[@pauldillon3179]

It will be long and hard....principle is paramount....irrespective of soft current thoughts on events. Ukrainian mindset is paramount to good human principle.

[@RegCostello]

Mark Milley's comments are very short sighted and worrying. They amount to Ukraine fatigue. If I was Biden I would tell him to either backtrack on them or be replaced.

[@steve-real]

This is huge! It allows the Ukrainians the opportunity to push all the way to Mariupol then on to Crimea.

[@idleishde6124]

Ukraine needs to be cautious. Russia wants Ukraine to over extend itself. Also Ukraines economy is screwed. If the US pulls out due to a change in Congress then a signed peace may be Ukraines only way out. Ukraine is being drip fed life support. If that support stops Russia can just win through attrition with their new cheap Iranian drones. All best wishes to Ukraine but it's not over yet.

[@steve-real]

@@idleishde6124 Ukraine just got another $400 million my friend from the people of the United States of America, which 67% paid zero federal taxes in 2021, that is not being “drip fed life support”. I want Ukraine to win but they are up against the clock. The maga-Trump party is pro-Putin.

[@bastogne315]

Russian behaviour in Ukraine strangely mirrors the behaviour of the British in Ireland over the last 200 years.

[@leeii337]

When did the British commit genocide in Ireland?

[@yvelaine]

The potato famine

[@yvelaine]

Will they blow the dam and destroy the forces in the city ?

[@DS9TREK]

No, because Kherson is uphill of the dam. Blowing the dam will kill the Russian soldiers on the east side of the River

[@MrSandancer]

That would be my main worry. It would be enough halt the Ukrainian advance over any flooded areas even if Kherson is at a higher elevation, as the previous reply suggests.

[@VajrahahaShunyata]

The 3 new russian defense lines east of the river are where the lowest lands are... They would flood themselves Russia only lies when they speak officially....

[@luke_skywanker7643]

@@DS9TREK Hmm... Now, there's an idea.

[@jimgraham6722]

Russian cruelty to those they dislike as well as their own people is on show for all to see.

[@jenniferconroy4517]

It's heartbreaking the bloodshed ....the world should never forget or forgive russia,

[@thecfbutcher1174]

Not Eskimos as they are unlikely to have a television.

[@idleishde6124]

Punishing Germany in WW1 led to WW2. We need to plan better like we did to WW2 to ensure Russia can be rehabilitated and not just delay another war.

[@koja69]

@@jenniferconroy4517the world supports Russia, because the world knows what is this war about and the world dispise west whose puppet ukraine has become.

[@reduk1999]

Ruskie propaganda in action “we’re pulling out for the safety of our forces” more like we’re getting our arses kick by a much better Ukrainian armed force…Glory to Ukraine 👏🏻🇬🇧👊

[@shiloh6519]

Russian trap? Still giving the russians way too much respect. What exactly is Russia going to do in this trap?

[@osric1730]

Give the Ukrainians a mauling as they take the city whilst hiding in amongst the civilian population with no risk of losing heavy equipment. Essentially fight an insurgency style war in the city and pretend its loyal Russians resisting Ukrainian rule. They can be supplied and supported by artillery from the other side of the river. Make Kherson a quagmire where Ukrainian soldiers don't know who is a civilian and who is a Russian fighter ready to ambush them. Can be painted as a glorious resistance movement by the population of Kherson who didn't want to be part of Ukraine. That's one option.

[@killuminati2911]

The javelin is thirty years old technology. Imagine how worried the US should be

[@stevenreiff4442]

a very big question for the next few months: can putin survive?

[@thecfbutcher1174]

3 words is hardly a big question.

[@katrinegadegaard1241]

@@thecfbutcher1174 good point 🧐

[@stevenreiff4442]

@@thecfbutcher1174 hahaha

[@stevenreiff4442]

@@katrinegadegaard1241 no pointillism

[@Bonjour-World]

unfortunately the brutal dictator, Putin, stands better than even chance of surviving

[@dainsmart6237]

Hold my beer I'm coming over to finish the job painting and decorating 🇺🇲🇬🇧💂‍♀️☺️👍🏻✌🏻♥️🇺🇦.

[@alexwall5525]

Ukraine is soviet Russia uraa

[@capthappy345]

How could the Russian b handling the war badly when they have taken the best parts of Ukraine. Nice spin! Odessa will fall by summer of 23.

[@pdxdragon7479]

15:49 *"The enemy does not give us gifts."* Old Russian proverb, I'm told ... _The only free cheese is in a mouse trap._

[@luke_skywanker7643]

That's a good one. I'm gonna' use it sometime.

[@odinbiflindi]

@Steve (day 41) OK pillowbiter.

[@odinbiflindi]

@Steve (day 41) Anyone who posts on a public platform about knobs obviously has such things on their mind hence pillowbiter.

[@odinbiflindi]

@Steve (day 41) NO not really.

[@ovonevalja615]

Russia is heroically retreating while Ukraine is cowardly advancing! /s

[@samsungtap4183]

Remember Russia has never lost a battle in Kherson...don't crow to much !

[@ovonevalja615]

@@samsungtap4183 I am pretty sure that they just lost one this week. :)

[@alexwall5525]

At least the comment is good

[@danellashopvlenaandersen1514]

Why is putins first comment not interpreted. I dont understand russian.

[@koja69]

These people are so out of touch with reality.

[@TooBadToBeAway1]

As usual a great program. However, I'm not interested in Putin's farts about Ukrainian and Russian history. It's an insult to the discipline of history to call them interesting, since Putin has no discipline about historiography at all; he takes a conversion in early Kievan Rus to stand in for the entire history of Kiev and Muscovy, when shortly after this Kiev (and Ukraine) became much more aligned with Poland and Lithuania, while Muscovy was conquered and administered by Mongols for 3 centuries (Kiev was conquered for a much briefer period). I have sometimes thought in the past 8 months that Muscovy never recovered from that conquest, since its ensuing state form was more like the Mongols than Europe. Timothy Snyder, of course, has debunked all Putin's attempts at historiography--his Yale course is free and genuinely interesting. He's also shown how this severe distortion and erasure of Ukraine's history is a central part of Putin's fascism. And erasure of history has led to the brutal attempt to erase Ukrainians in reality the past 8 months. Let us not honour this drivel of a madman by calling it interesting.

[@julioochoa1750]

Aside from the bots in the comment section people don't care

[@StridentSloth]

It's a perfect way to freeze the conflict on a naturally defensible line. Kherson is right there to hold under threat much like NK holds Seoul under artillery threat.

[@osric1730]

It is. Unfortunately for the Russians its not the only theatre of operations. If Ukraine can cut the land bridge further east the Dnipro isn't going to be a problem. But in the short term it kills the Kherson front stone dead.

[@samsungtap4183]

The qustion is why is the Ukrainian military allowing the Russian to withdraw in good order ? We may see a Ukrainian withdrawl from Donbas and a ceasefire, maybe the beginning of peace, the Russians have not attacked the power grid for several days. Or maybe the Ukrainian army is out on its feet

[@RobBCactive]

They aren't according to the specialist reports, those dumb Ruzzians left withdrawal too late

[@HanSolo__]

They are pounding Russians cramped in funnels of army escaping in two places where soldiers are pushed and brought to bridges made to the half-working state.

[@davidelliott5843]

A military win by Ukraine is achievable- but only if NATO and USA continue the support in weapons and equipment to rebuild damaged infrastructure. To stop now will simply condemn Ukraine and Europe to ongoing war and misery.

[@nigelmitchell351]

Into Putin's philosophy, or madness....

[@NortyNige]

Ukraine has over 200+ Artillery pieces and 100+ Rocket launchers in the Kherson region. Which are now raining 600+ shells and 200+ rockets a minute down on four football field sized ferry crossings which are overcrowded with Russian Soldiers. Thomas C. Theiner.

[@odinbiflindi]

Ukraine is firing 6000 rounds a day of artillery Russia is firing 20,000 a day your stated figure is beyond laughable.

[@PapaDutch]

I would almost like to wager the price of a Drone that the Kremlin will ignore humanitarianism entirely by blowing the dam. Ditto Zaporizhia nuclear plant. Unfortunately I am already donating my max, most of it goes to RAZOM

[@samsungtap4183]

Save your money for your power bill. Here in Vietnam i just paid my electric bill for 1 mth, about $50 and i run 3 aircons !

[@harryflashman4542]

Ukraine has been attacking the nuclear power plant and the dam above Kherson. I guess it's not a crime against humanity when the western supported side does it.

[@niklaswikholm514]

New catastrophe for Russian army, crossing Dnipro will be the biggest defeat for russia ever!

[@thecfbutcher1174]

Liz Truss removed from the intro……like she never existed lol

[@markgoicoechea7826]

I think the americansare thinking about that Russian nuclear arsenal. I don’t think that we want an extremely destabilized Russia. The US wants to make sure those weapons are secure. A destabilized Russia could put those weapons at risk

[@billgoodman7403]

The withdrawal is the only logical thing to do. RUSSIA DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE A STALINGRAD( They could lose an entire core, if they stayed). It only means basic strategy is to consolidate the Russian forces on the other side of the river. If Putin follows in Stalin's "not one step back" an entire core could be stranded and destroyed on the wrong side of the river. This also means that Russia does not have enough men and materials to keep a bridge head on that side of the river. If Russia had 2 more divisions 20,000, combat ready troops then it could cross the river at 2 points, surround and destroy the ukrainean forces opposing the Russians. The withdraw exposes the weakness of Russian forces and the myth of the 300,000 troops activated? How many of the "300,000" troops actually showed up? This is just another paper army and paper tiger. The real Question is Why cant the Ukraine military capitalize on the situation by destroying the Russian army as it retreats? After the USA spending $20 billion dollars to equip the Ukrainian's HOW able is the Ukrainian army? Why cant they muster 2 divisions(20,000) troops to destroy the Russians on the run and potentially win the war?/

[@harryflashman4542]

no it is paratroopers on the north side of the river. They have been there since Kherson was taken. Using paratroopers as infantry is a poor role for elite troops. Russia just freed up its elite troops. They are being re-deployed. I guess we will find out why and where very soon. Russia has had as few as 50,000 troops in Ukraine lately due to rotation, about 20,000 of the new mobilization have been filtered into existing formations. Mobilizing 300,000 requires new battalions, new brigades, new divisions, which all have to pass battle readiness assessment before deployment. By the end of the year Russia will be deploying over twenty new divisions in Ukraine. They will have parity instead of being vastly outnumbered. As winter approaches the ground hardens enough to support armored warfare, the forests are bare and Ukraine's forces have nowhere to hide. Ukraine's cities may not be livable by then and a vast exodus of civilians will move into the EU. This conflict is swinging inexorably in Russia's favor, they can wait a little longer.

[@JohnWatsonFlatEarth]

A deal has been done... probs a month or so ago !.. imo

[@zacharyrobertson6944]

General Milley is counting Ukrainian civilians in that number I bet, not just soldiers.

[@osric1730]

I doubt it. Ukraine spent the summer taking large casualties under intense artillery fire, and have spent the time since conducting offensive operations. Their military casualties have to be at least as heavy as the Russians.

[@Bonjour-World]

Putin has been humiliated by his military losses and is desperate. General Sergei Surovikin should be planning for his imminent "retirement" to Northern Siberia.

[@luke_skywanker7643]

@Steve (day 41) I thought the Russian higher-ups had a Base Jump Competition going on there for awhile. I keep wondering when they're going to announce the winner.

[@luke_skywanker7643]

@Steve (day 41) 👍👍

[@timseytiger9280]

Who is the guy who said that Ukraine could rebuild the dam on the canal? Somebody tell him to shut up it, he's only showing his ignorance. The canal is on the other side of the river where the russians are.

[@hunterpayne6167]

It is. It is also not usable at the moment. The Russians never had time to rebuilt it after they took the area. It is a big project probably requiring several years to fix it. Also, even if the Russians rebuilt it, it would be close enough to Ukrainian artillery that destroying it would be possible. Anyway, it is a moot point, it is currently not working. It is the intake to the ZNPP farther up that is the real issue. The nuclear plant uses water from the reservoir to cool the plant and the plant is on Russian territory. Even the Russians don't want it to meltdown on territory they hold.

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

Slava Ukraine

[@timothykatende8484]

Does the retreat mean the end of the war? Maybe to the west ...but to the Russians its a strategic move to continue with the war long term

[@VajrahahaShunyata]

We love that russia promised that they would be in Kherson forever a couple weeks ago and are running away now. No one said its over. Just that russia is doing a horrible job of keeping Ukrainian territories and also doing a horrible job keeping their soldiers alive.... But those of us that know russian history are not surprised... Russia only survived WW2 because of America and lend lease supplies. Now Ukraine is receiving lend lease for the same reason. To fight fascism from an imperialist terrorist state.

[@GDSVID]

Check your history, Russia won the race to Berlin not stupid war mongering America…

[@user-hv9vn4fi4w]

🤡🤡🤡

[@Petenz81]

Best to go around and attack from the flanks. Frontal attacks are pointless and wasteful of lives.

[@dearmas9068]

Good work, Peter.

[@osric1730]

Hark at von Clausewitz here. Never eat yellow snow either.

[@max_NS]

Ummm...er.. thanks for that searing piece of armchair generalling.

[@chw5044]

Ukrainian eternal missery...hahaha

[@Jeffrie_Baer]

VICTORY TO RUSSIA!!!!!

[@madmickey78]

Mehhhhh, globalist puppetry.

[@dearmas9068]

Nice try, Orc Bot

[@234cheech]

moron ron ron

[@robertorodriguez2609]

UCRAINE VICTORY WITHOUT A FIGHT? HAHAHA¡¡¡¡¡ AND AFTER HAVING LOST 12 THOUSAND ORCS ATTACKING HERSON? HAHAHA¡¡¡¡¡

[@GDSVID]

Armchair general shut up,and don’t believe the mainstream media…