Ten music artists that ruined music | RANT WARNING

[@auntcleo1997]

If there is one thing that has ruined music, it's the Idol-type shows. While these singers have good voices, these shows are just glorified karaoke contests as there is no original material.

[@gregcee5468]

To me it’s the commodification of music. We’ve gone from artistic expression to production line sausage making made to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[@Bluepilled-c5t]

I’d give that theory the thumbs up. Correlates too, it all went downhill when that stuff appeared, and continues to this day.

[@arnesaknussemm2427]

You are conflating cause and effect. These programmes were a response to the collapse of the music business model due to the arrival of Napster and online streaming. To prevent themselves going out of business the labels defaulted to safe mode. That meant only signing people who had proven they had an audience. The test for this was these tv shows. A Bowie or a Floyd would never be signed again as they would be too much of a risk. The money now has to be made immediately. No record company is going to invest in an artist who may take years to become a success.

[@theshrubberer]

the "Diva" 🤮

[@michaelantonyaustin]

Speaking as someone who was suckered into appearing on such a show (The Voice Of Germany 2014), I 100% agree. Not only have these shows reduced music to an even more throw away, bit sized, disposable product, they ended the career of many a great singer before they could gain any real traction… After I ‘lost’, no-one gave me any advice, helpful tips or opened any doors. The ‘concept’ is simply - You’re out! Who’s next?

[@davebarrowcliffe1289]

My wife said she was going to divorce me because of my obsession with The Monkees. At first, I thought she was joking - and then I saw her face...

[@robertcrompton2733]

Hahaha! Good one! This really cracked me up. Gotta go, the last train to Clarksville is about to leave.

[@erikavery1105]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@FOMOmix]

you made my day🤣🤣🤣

[@thomasalexand]

And after seeing her angry face, you thought, I'm A Believer.😁

[@davidmecionis895]

That's an A-1 dad joke.

[@peterroe4482]

Simon Cowell has a lot to answer for. Actively discourages contestants from presenting their own material because, as he has said, “how would we know if they are any good if we don’t know the songs”. So all you get is covers. 🙄

[@John-k6f9k]

Simon Cowell doesn't actually pretend to be anything more than TV oriented entertainment. He makes that pretty clear.

[@robertwiles8106]

The one exception is Alejandro Aranda from American Idol 2019 (right before the pandemic). His run from week to week was a wonderous thing. Go back and look at it on video! It's like watching a Prince or a David Bowie. He composed all of his own songs (unless specifiically assigned a cover) and served as bandleader for the A.I. house band on all his performances, and was UNREAL both on guitar and piano.

[@robertwiles8106]

Starting with his audition, each Alejandro performance left the judges and audience SPELLBOUND AND IN AWE. I don't know why his run on Idol doesn't get more attention. It was Hall of Fame level. kzbin.info/www/bejne/faemp6l_fsylZpI

[@peterroe4482]

@@robertwiles8106 Thanks I'll check him out 👍

[@larryzink8978]

...Simple Simon? lol

[@brianarbenz1329]

Here’s the cause: In 1984, the U.S. had 50 corporations owning all pop culture. By the early 2000s it was six. Merger mania, the end of limits on corporate ownership of broadcasting outlets, the end of community service requirements by local broadcasters - all this may sound unrelated to pop music, but it is why giant corporations were able to change popular music from a combination of marketing and artistic expression to solely marketing.

[@kittykatz4001]

Yep. Bear with me: I read historical romance novels. Same thing happened. Very few publishers of historical romance. The stuff written past 1995-2000 is awful. Just rinse and repeat. They standardized it into a formula, that includes limits on page count! The hero and heroine absolutely must blah blah blah by page blah blah ! Sorry. Seems unrelated, but I see a connection.

[@MikeM-uy6qp]

Yeah. This guy's not factoring in structural changes to the music industry. These are very lazy takes. There is no evidence of research here.

[@stevedriscoll2539]

Yes, and the same principle applies to the digital epoch and globalisation.

[@bobf9749]

And that’s responsible for a lot more serious problems, such as the fact that, here in America, six multi-billionaires decide what qualifies as news and what doesn’t.

[@freedomfest2741]

You can thank Bill Clinton for that, when he signed the telecommunications act in the 90s.

[@margaretkrpan1105]

Joni Mitchell on Madonna: she has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena.

[@BozeDoesGodsWork]

Nah she had talented. Saying that Madonna is untalented is probably the most uninteresting take on the woman if I’ve ever did see one. She was a performance artist. Then again somebody on here said Whitney was untalented so at this point some of y’all are just delusional 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@coachtomas1492]

Madonna was a dancer and shock provoker. She had no musical talent whatsoever, voice was subpar - same category as Janet Jackson, Paula Abdul, Britney Spears etc. At least Chistina Aguilera could sing.

[@buschovski1]

Whatever. Madonna wasnt that bad at all.

[@mainzergirl9610]

My teenage kids grew up with Spears, Sheeran, and Kanye. Now they listen to Zeppelin, Beatles, and Blue Oyster Cult. I'd like to think i caused it but the real reason is the creativity of 70s/80s music.

[@michaelwills1926]

I so know what you’re saying, but it’s all a cog in the social and culture engineering machine. Unfortunately

[@shewolfcub3]

I skip the beatles but the others you listed are great!

[@Alix777.]

Zeppelin and Blue Oyster Cult are trash, as many other 70s boomer bands. Your kids were brainwashed

[@AutisticVaxtard]

Tell them to listen to Yngwie Malmsteen ✝️

[@zigzagwanderer9531]

Flash and the Pan next.

[@mitchellkitts6444]

Ed Sheeran - The king of mediocrity - Music to get the lift to.

[@Maltloaflegrande]

Or away from. If you can find that particular lift, please let me know.

[@mitchellkitts6444]

@@Maltloaflegrande :)

[@RodericSpode]

When I listen to him, I find myself forgetting the melody as the song is being sung. I looked up the lyrics to one of his albums. It was the most generic, artless "poetry" I've ever read. A perfect fit for his music. Seems like a nice guy though.

[@jonathanj.7344]

It would have been B side material back in the day.

[@effdonahue6595]

Ed Sheeeshran 🙄

[@Therocker-kw1tz]

Remember that song video killed the radio Star from 1979. I have always taken that song to mean that the visual aspect of music is more important than actual musicianship. And here we are 45 years later stuck with this crud

[@bombercountyblues]

And Spotify killed the video star!

[@bentleycharles779]

The Buggles nailed it.

[@deansusec8745]

as well as Radio Gaga

[@somerandomvertebrate9262]

That song was genius, in my opinion, so much of a Zeitgeist bundled up in it. At least to a 9-year old like me. At most it was tangential to this whole process, kind of like Kraftwerk, while the song is actually good in itself. In fact, the song called "Video Killed the Radio Star" didn't actually need the visuals of a video.

[@JohnCollins]

That Ella Fitzgerald is glorious to listen to but a bit of an eyesore to look at. Susan Boyle sounds great but looks like a fire hazard.

[@bobturnley2787]

The Monkees weren't created to be The Beatles. They were signed to act in a TV show about a band that acted like The Beatles in their film, A Hard Day's Night. It just happened that the music they made for the show was so good that they had some big hits. Most of the hits were written for them by Boyce and Hart, Goffin and King, or Neil Diamond. But all the Monkees wrote songs and Mike Nesmith wrote almost every song that he sang for them. What ruined Hit Radio was the corporate takeover of radio stations where just a few people would decide what would be played and what would be a hit.

[@blackphillip8486]

Michael Nesmith is a genius and Elephant Parts is the peak of comedy. Watched that movie on a loop with my sisters growing up in the 80's. 😅

[@yakmartin5429]

Speaking of acting like the Beatles: Time to watch The Rutles, isn't it. And concerning The Monkees and bands of whom one thinks, but *those* guys knew their shit, look up wikipedia for The Wrecking Crew (Studio Musicians). Peace!

[@bobturnley2787]

@@yakmartin5429 There's "acting like" and then there's parody which is what The Rutles was even if they did it very well.

[@snuscaboose1942]

Clear Channel

[@Charles-e8e9m]

My cousin saw them in Memphis but no Hendrix opening,plus he was 4

[@MarkPalmer-t9f]

The Ramones wrote great songs with beautiful, unforgettable melodies and insanely unique lyrics, performed with a live intensity and stage presence that was and is rarely matched by any group in any era. They weren't interested in making a Dylanesque social or artistic impact; rather, they drew their inspiration primarily from common disreputable forms of behavior by bored middle class suburban kids such as reading comic books, watching horror movies and sniffing glue, which was an extremely original approach at the time and hugely influential even today.

[@dickderuiter5892]

yeah but they were just a tiny bit more 'marketed' than the Sex Pistols, who were marketed themselves as well, but had much more real 'feel'.

[@ailblentyn]

Agreed. Comparing them Ramones to UK punk of hard rock is off base. The Ramones' music is pure, beautiful pop. But turned to nihilistic subject matter.

[@snuscaboose1942]

@@ailblentyn Beat on the Brat is pop? The Ramones were an inspiration for many UK punk bands. Why sport that disgusting racist flag? Up to you.

[@GriefTourist]

One of the best bands ever !

[@carlomatthews6676]

The tragedy with Madonna is that women's empowerment is reduced to self-objectification, flaunting your sexuality which, unaccompanied by ideas and culture, has the opposite effect of the message she purports to be expressing, while trivializing and reducing women. It's a ploy to win over an impressionable audience as well as a display of how pathetic and vacuous the artist-consumer relation can become.

[@carlomatthews6676]

@@tommeadows-ie2xb "Hmm no"

[@loveagainstgods5116]

Nope you’re incorrect

[@michaelwills1926]

Feminism or “women’s lib” was always bullshit, the method for cracking the family nucleus. All pop music has been driving us down a road we didn’t understand till now

[@squeakeththewheel]

@@michaelwills1926 I respect your right to your opinion, but in my opinion, it is spoken from a position of cultural insecurity. That's what a lot of conservatism is about.

[@laramullen6601]

@@tommeadows-ie2xb 🙄🙄As if her young impressionable audience has the intellectual capacity to grasp her artistic expressionism. And I am a fan of her 1983-2000 body of work. Andy is correct.

[@matthewcoombs3282]

I remember when Madonna's Sex book came out. I was working in a printing and graphic reprographics business and one of the blokes brought it in for the lads to perv over. It was so dismally unerotic we spend most of the time critically looking at the print and binding quality. Madonna was "Sex" rather than "Sexy "......her music was just dispiriting....never has so little talent gone so far.

[@limomangeno]

Your right about Madonna...

[@neilclark1681]

Ray of Light is a great song, plus a few other tracks off that album.

[@Les537]

That's too much. I had exactly the same experience - working in a print shop when a co-worker brought in the book.

[@roboi2241]

Spot on couldn't have put it better. Just like U2's rise was an industry contrivance to sell their processed version of post-punk aimed mainly at the sons of dull conservative America, the types who would have been into Peter Frampton or The Eagles in the 70s. Madonna's contrived catholic iconoclasm was their selling of the erotic or 'sexy' element previously associated with the genuine article like Donna Summer or Debbie Harry but in Madonna's hands aimed at the 'liberated' impressionable daughters of the conservative types who would have been into Linda Ronstadt or Debbie Boone a decade earlier.

[@BrennanYoung]

OMG. the binding. Let's me put it this way: Spiral bound books and sheer stockings are not a good mix.

[@Wayner71]

It is very lonely in this era. I am constantly in conversation with people who are not aware of the rich history of contemporary music. When they talk about the pleasures of an Ed Sheeran concert, I am totally unable to identify or share those alleged pleasures. It makes one feel like King Arthur after Camelot was lost..

[@clydekimsey7503]

True. Sheeran is so boring

[@Bluepilled-c5t]

Hang in there mate. Plenty of us frustrated types out there.

[@flamesintheattic]

Lady Gaga channeled Madonna but amped up the tackiness and nursery rhyme melodies to eleven. Madonna pioneered it but Lady Gaga perfected it into a torture device.

[@stephenelkington4971]

I don't know anything about Gaga's solo pop stuff but she recorded an album with Tony Bennet just before he died and revealed herself to be a capable jazz singer.

[@brianbutler3318]

Lady Gaga is a master vocalist-Madonna is not a singer.

[@SPAZZOID100]

@@brianbutler3318master vocalist but Madonna’s songs are FAR better.

[@heyoletsgo9]

@@stephenelkington4971 And Madonna helped Stephen Sondheim win his only Oscar with the 1930’s-era jazz ballad “Sooner Or Later” in 1991

[@heyoletsgo9]

@@brianbutler3318 right, and these words aren’t english

[@marieuzes]

Perfect!! I’ve been waiting for someone to finally discuss this seriously!

[@DerekPugh-uj4yd]

I mostly blame the 90's and the rise of the 'vocal artist'. These people (Micheal Bolton, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion etc) had some talent but used it for evil. The bland, putrid, lifeless, tacky, phony pop/R&B/soul that these artists belted out repeatedly somehow convinced people that they were listening to someone musically important. The 'artist' and their immense talent quickly became more important than their music...a sad situation that continues today.

[@bunsw2070]

That's women's music. They wouldn't listen to real music unless they thought it could get them with a guy they had the hots for.

[@John-k6f9k]

They're no different from people like Pat Boone, Frank Sinatra, Engelbert Humperdinck and Donny Osmond in previous decades.

[@michaelwills1926]

@@John-k6f9kpretty much, all the way back to Bill Haley and the Comets

[@squeakeththewheel]

Rick Beato had a recent video about the death of bands, replaced by solo artists for the convenience and profit of the labels.

[@erikheddergott5514]

@@DerekPugh-uj4yd You thusly could blame Frank Sinatra and Three Dog Night for the Fall of the Roman Empire. What about blaming Dancefloor DJ‘s for playing Records who displayed 3 Times more Extra Bonus Beats then actually Melody Parts, or the fixed Playlist System of Broadcast Syndicates. I really do not think that any of the Mentioned Musicians had or has the Power to Destroy Music. If it comes to bad Music, Dealers but also the Consumers through their „Selbstverschuldete Dummheit“ (Self inflicted Stupidity) are to blame if you want to search for a Scapegoat.

[@MrT115]

I would add the emergence of auto-tune which is personified by Cher in the 90s. I can't stand it when it's used heavy-handed. Nails on the chalk board.

[@80sWonderchild]

The problem was not Cher (she's got an incredible voice btw) but the artists who started using auto-tune as the norm, mainly to hide the fact that they can't actually strike a note, and not just as a sound effect as Cher did.

[@MrT115]

@@80sWonderchild True, but the first successful mainstream song that it was used on was Cher's "Believe". She (or her producers) were the instigators for its broad use today. It had been used to some degree earlier but those songs were never hits. Since then it's become "mainstream". But if she hadn't used in that song or it hadn't became a hit then maybe we wouldn't have it today.

[@80sWonderchild]

@@MrT115 I agree. Something similar happened with Vocoder. Some artists used it randomly, whereas Daft Punk used it for most of their songs.

[@menninkainen8830]

@@80sWonderchild Nowadays general public thinks that that autotuned voice is the incredible voice.

[@80sWonderchild]

@@menninkainen8830 General public maybe, I'm a GenX music junkie lol 😂 😂

[@lupcokotevski2907]

Popular music's decline is correlated to the disappearance of great songwriters and the decline of songwriting values.

[@MH-kc8pq]

Glad you used the word 'popular', plenty of stuff under the surface

[@sspbrazil]

Or when it came to 5-10 people getting credit for writing one song.

[@lupcokotevski2907]

@@sspbrazil Lol, and it still only has 4 chords.

[@sspbrazil]

@@lupcokotevski2907 if that, most of the time it’s only 2 or less.

[@Hartlor_Tayley]

@@sspbrazil 2 chords are plenty, that’s not why.

[@smallships]

You hit the nail on the head regarding Ed Sheeran. What irks me about him is that he’s put forward as the quintessential modern singer songwriter because for a while there didn’t seem to be anyone else in the charts playing their own instrument. So he was considered brilliant by default. And also because he plays acoustic guitar he gets labeled as a ‘folksinger’ when he is anything but. It’s all about the hooks, with no attempt at lyrical depth or any semblance of storytelling. He’s really more of an RnB pop artist; closer to Rihanna than Dylan. Not saying he isn’t good at what he does, but what he does is not what people say he does.

[@dio7184]

I think when elvis started doing those cheesy movies his music was just as bad and totally manufactured.

[@thomasalexand]

Agree. That was solely down to his parasitic manager Colonel Tom Parker who couldn't leave the USA due to not having a green card. He was an illegal and not a real Colonel.

[@p.d.l7023]

That was the fault of his very poor management.

[@beerd67]

Grossly overrated. Most of the competition was 'killed off'. (No pun intended... 😉) Eddy Cochran, Buddy Holly.

[@love-vy1ry]

​@@p.d.l7023Na, colonel Parker didn't want Elvis to go outside the USA. The films were a part of his tactic to prevent that EP would go without him to Europe/Japan/Australia because he had no passport. Rumours say CP was living illegal in the USA. After he left the Netherlands for a criminal thing and would be jailed for that.

[@PeterHuebner]

JA BUDDY HOLLY ER WÄRE DER GRÖSSTE ROCK'N'ROLL-MUSIKER NEBEN ELVIS PRESLEY GEWESEN, ABER LEIDER STÜRZTE ER SEHR TRAGISCH...ES GIBT LEIDER VIELE SOLCHER BEISPIELE,NUR ES WAR MAL KÖNNEN WICHTIG IN DER MUSIKBRANCHE UND DANACH KAM DAS IN SZENE SETZEN UND VERMARKTEN UM JEDEN PREIS!😢

[@Composer19691]

No one ever beat 4 chords to a bloody pulp like Ed Sheeran.

[@bombercountyblues]

Apart from all the u.s. doowop stars of the 50s

[@bentleycharles779]

@@bombercountybluesyeah, but they were kind of like songs.

[@bombercountyblues]

@@bentleycharles779 fair point

[@misterknightowlandco]

@@bombercountybluesyeah but they could actually sing and had good songs… shoooodooop shoooobie dooooo

[@Maltloaflegrande]

If only he could permanently forget how to play A minor he'd be less of a nuisance (though still gangantuanly crap).

[@adude9882]

At last! I've been waiting for the Nuremburg Trials for musician since the mid 80s.

[@bentleycharles779]

Lol

[@superdude732]

Well, this video also uses twisted Jewish logic, much like those trials. Thinking Robert Zimmerman, and the entire 60s top-down cultural revolution, was organically "counter-cultural" and authentic could only be believed by the most brainwashed generation in human history: The Boomer; the generation who peddle such absurdities as "Strange Fruit" being the greatest song of all time. If you can't see the clear and direct link between the 60s cultural revolution(which you love) and Cardi B's "WAP (which you hate), life must be so confusing for you.

[@mikedemike5393]

60's British invasion caused drug proliferation and introduced the USA to Hindu and Buddhist religious cosmic debris....the invasion was literal....now folks would take a knee and gets squared up the rear then stand on their own feet andf fight.

[@kevinmorrow2788]

The boomer embraced the vaccine with zealous aplomb! Neil young was their leader! Counter culture my arse!

[@philmartin5689]

Maybe you prefer the Horst Wessel song?​@@superdude732

[@mr.puckerie4800]

I would think in context, Pat Boone ruined rock & roll way before the Monkees when the entertainment industry had him cover Little Richard's Tutti-Frutti, as well as Elvis Presley's entire catalog at the time in an attempt to sanitize the salaciousness of rock&roll.

[@ScotP-isb]

I was describing this video to my wife and she made exactly the same point.

[@dimetrealexiou5633]

Valid point, but I don't think rock n roll stayed squeaky clean. He did have a negative effect, but did he have lasting effect?

[@mr.puckerie4800]

@@dimetrealexiou5633 well yeah, I'm thinking Pat Boone introduced the notion that any artist can cover a rock&roll song and tone it down. In his wake, came big band singers transforming rock&rock songs into Vegas showtunes. Just one example, Frank Sinatra, covering Beatles songs and such.

[@kittykatz4001]

@@mr.puckerie4800Don’t forget get the Lawrence Welk show on Sundays covering RnR hits as well-turning RnR into elevator “musak,” with vocals!

[@mr.puckerie4800]

@@kittykatz4001 You know, that's funny. Lawrence Welk actually did cross my mind at the time I was thinking Pat Boone. My parents used to watch LW's sunday night show when I was a child, but I was way too young to remember any of the songs/melodies they played. LOL all I remember was accordions and lots of “wunnerful, wunnerful!”. The only reason I remembered to note Pat Boone was because he's been mentioned several times on various history of rocknroll-type documentaries, I've caught randomly throughout my lifetime.

[@viceversar-do1cn]

So Madonna, Britney Spears and Kanye West got the brunt, but Michael and Janet Jackson (who influenced much of THAT crappy pop music we now have among us) got off the hook here?

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Yes...his music is on genius level

[@Muddipaws1308]

With the help of Quincy Jones!.​@AndyEdwardsDrummer

[@wzev628]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer thanks only to Quincy Jones. everything he made post Quincy was rubbish

[@Dunlop-hg2ql]

This guy must think pretty low of David Bowie too I guess, because HE's known to have been influenced by both The Velvet Underground and Kraftwerk. It's therefore presumable that he'd consider HIM an example of "ruined music".

[@The.Last.Guitar.Hero.]

I hate modern music all done digitally with no soul, that ruined music for me. I know the Monkees were manufactured and had a team of players and song writers but i have a soft spot for them

[@jimsalman7257]

For their first two or three albums, The Monkees had the Very Best songwriters and musicians on their team. Songwriters like Carole King (w/her then husband Gerry Goffin), Neil Diamond, and Boyce & Hart. Music was performed by none other than The Wrecking Crew. Even Frank Zappa said those Monkees albums were better produced and better sounding than most pop/rock records of the day.

[@orlock20]

At least the members turned into a real band. A fake it till they made it situation.

[@robertsteinberger5667]

in the end it is about what they put on the record and the rest is blabla, although image matters as well to some extend.

[@Therocker-kw1tz]

I love the hits of The Monkees and yes the TV show was kind of weak but if you just focus on the hit songs they were pretty strong. And from what I understand the great Jimi Hendrix open for them. I find today's music absolutely horrible even The Rock. There is no more blues element in rock music and that was always the core of the great bands. I think a lot of young people also realize how terrible today's music is when they compare it to the old stuff

[@TheVirus-pr8zw]

What gives music "soul"? You can't achieve "soul" digitally?

[@somethingyettocome]

It s not true that Andy Warhol put the Velvet Underground together. He took them under his patronage, got them gigs, "produced" their first album and added Nico to the band for the first album, but their original formation had nothing to do with him.

[@spellman007]

I mean he thinks the sex pistols were an “organic” “working class” band so its not surprising he wouldn’t understand VU

[@johnsluggett1822]

Right! Her entire ouevre with the VU consists of three songs. Reed reportedly was bitter that Andy wanted her to sing songs he wanted to sing.

[@stevenhenry5267]

Lol . Lydon was working class.

[@pookatim]

I am much older than you are and I worked as a rock musician for a while. You don't "get" what happened with the Ramones. You see, originally, rock & roll music was pretty simple. Over the years it became more sophisticated to the point where young aspiring musicians could no longer just set up in a garage and play some version of what they heard on the radio. This created a kind of vacuum in popular music. Then there was a sort of backlash against the over-produced highly sophisticated rock, back to very simple, basic three chord short songs. This was where the Ramones shined. They were not "pretty" or polished or even very competent musicians. In fact just listen to the one note guitar "solo" in "I Want to be Sedated". Anyone could play these songs and it spoke to the young "outcast" sort of people because they were not attractive looking, didn't have great skills but "rocked". They were heroic figures to those who were not part of the "cool kids" or any social network. In fact, they were about as un-cool as was possible.

[@snuscaboose1942]

Yes, Ramones did simple rock that anyone could play and inspired many. Saw them in 1991, not that inspiring, they rushed through their set playing old songs at triple speed, was cool but was a short set.

[@Exposure2life]

"Dave Grohl, the Max Bygraves of rock." That was my highlight of this video!

[@zaneblack3094]

Kanye West is the one which I truly don't understand why they are a celebrity with 22 Grammys. Who buys it? It's no wonder he hooked up with The Kardashians....these people are The Monkees of rich celebrities for no other reason than that they are rich celebrities that the entertainment industry for some unfathomable reason decided needed to be there. Just as an aside, Cher gave us autotuned vocals.

[@michaelwills1926]

“Influencers” influencing yutes and naive adults

[@pauldecoster]

Kanye’s work as a producer got him to where he was. He also made hip hop about personal feelings. As for what turned out, well …………

[@Jpeterson7]

A download is considered a buy now. Forget albums.

[@lockedonlaw]

I can't answer this question without being labeled a racist.

[@Bluepilled-c5t]

Disagree. Kanye’s musical production is quite original. And catchy. And the lyrics are at times hilarious. “I ain’t saying she no gold digger, but she ain’t hanging with no broke N….” For me he completely deserves his place (and I’m a Zepplin type rock head)

[@geographyinaction7814]

There is a meme out there that compares Bohemian Rhapsody to a Beyonce song. BR is written by Freddie, and the Beyonce song is written by 142 different people and engineered and produced by an entire planet's population...a song that repeats the same four cursewords for 4 minutes. That is the problem.

[@kittykatz4001]

I’m a fan of Queen and a huge fan of Zeppelin, but strangely enough, I don’t have the same love of either Bohemian Rhapsody or of Stairway. Before social media, streaming etc., I would turn the radio dial and check other stations when those two massive hits from came on the radio. If this were still the days of vinyl or CD, and I owned the album where those two songs were originally found, I probably wouldn’t play either. I don’t hate those two songs, but, I don’t need them as so many more song I enjoy by both groups. Just blah to both of those iconic songs for me.

[@geographyinaction7814]

@kittykatz4001 I get it, but it doesn't change the fact that you no longer need to be a songwriter to be famous. You can let a bunch of other people slap anything together in a studio and insult the intelligence of most listeners. The problem is that today, intelligence is no longer highly regarded, posessed, or exercised.

[@rODIUMuk]

Freddie Mercury didn’t really write every note of bohemian rhapsody, and the crediting is just an aspect of how the business works. Beyoncé credits correctly

[@geographyinaction7814]

@@rODIUMuk So, as long as you credit correctly, you can produce rubbish?

[@rODIUMuk]

@@geographyinaction7814 that's subjective. either beyoncee creates trash , or she's trash because she uses different writers. which one s it

[@mattlonnen8664]

Only ten? - I can think of hundreds 🤣

[@TheTristanmarcus]

'Glamourised incompetence' is a great phrase 🙏🏾 Summarises a lot of popular 'music' since about 2000 (with a few exceptions). The amount of music in most popular music since about 2000 is very close to 0% 😢

[@rjw4762]

I don't think it's the artists that have ruined music - rather the producers. Music today is utterly over-produced. The input of the artist is probably 10% of the actual sound - even the musical instruments can be 'done' on computer, and of course the voices of the artists don't have to be that great as the computer will do the rest. As for the writing, ever noticed that most songs these days are credited to not just 1 to 4 people as was the case from the 50s to the 90s, rather 4,5,6,7 people !!!! I saw an interview once with someone who'd worked with a major female artist (not named - but Madonna was the obvious candidate) and she would contribute One line and would expect a major writing credit. ALl I can say is that modern music can go phuck itself. I'll stick to the 60s,70s,80s when music was truly creative and memorable and artists knew their c from their D sharp. Does that tuat Jay Z know one end of a piano from the other ? Yet, somehow he's worth as much as Paul McCartney. Oh well, at least McCartney has the comfort of knowing his songs will be played FOREVER.

[@Tenebarum]

No, that is Beyonce. I loathe Madonna, but she is capable of more than one line.

[@epicparkourdewd]

Major label records production, song writing etc is a big ponzi scam for the insider parasites of the industry to steal $ from, and derail creative trajectories of, artists

[@EncoreASMR]

From the comments, I agree with MTV causing a huge decline in musicians. Instead of making good music, it became more about quality music videos. That enabled companies to pay artists to sell clothing, make-up, hair dye and commercialism. Heck, you could point the finger at Elvis Presley, who wore huge gel in his hair and fancy clothes. That was when the labels appeared: rock, mod, punk, prog, indie, metal, hardcore, new wave, pop, rap, EDM et al. That's when music became a commercial cash grab aimed at profiteering of teens, kids and females. But MTV accelerated the decline- it's ironic to think MTV eventually steered away from music videos and now does reruns of cooking channels.

[@epicparkourdewd]

It accelerated Image as the priority of ✌creative✌endeavors in audio expression.

[@girthbloodstool339]

I think Whitney Houston ruined singing for most female artists going forward. Her refusal to hold a note, and instead warble all over the place like a gymnast, has led a zillion singers in her wake to wobble madly to the point where being 'in tune' becomes a moot point. Whitney did it better than most, but inspired a shit-ton of awful singing in her style that still hasn't gone away (unlike Whitney - thanks!).

[@nyobunknown6983]

Whitney was great. The problem wasn't her but all the pretenders who tried to copy her style. This has reached an extreme today where every time there is a new singer who becomes popular, I hear about 20 others sounding the same. There is almost no originality in today's popular music.

[@girthbloodstool339]

@@nyobunknown6983 that's what I'm saying - she could more or less do it, but she dead, and that style lives on as some kind of R&B wonderfulness that really just sucks in her successors. So yeah, she ruined singing.

[@billschindler1381]

@girthbloodstool339 Her voice was very good. Her song selection as releasing singles were mostly mediocre at best.

[@pauldecoster]

That’s right out of the church. Its purpose is to lift the spirits of the congregants who need something transcendent to get through a tough life. Stevie did that. Prince could do that. Michael did that. Luther did that. Aretha did that. Right out of the church.

[@nyobunknown6983]

@@pauldecoster Correct. The term for that type of singing is Melisma and was around long before Whitney Houston.

[@guacamolekid3899]

I was a huge Monkees fan- they had some good songs that actually hold up pretty well over time. Two great singers in that band.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I agree

[@RB-oc7ti]

But mostly their songs were written by hired gun songwriters… I ran home from school to watch them every day too in the 70’s…! But don’t try to convince anyone they had much more than basic musical talent…

[@guacamolekid3899]

@@RB-oc7ti I think Andy is right-they wanted to be a real band so bad that they became one for awhile. No, they weren't Tull or Zepplin, but pretty good for a TV band- even Jerry Garcia gave them some props one time in an interview.

[@SuperNevile]

@@RB-oc7ti Was really surprised "The Porpoise Song", the Theme from "Head" was written by Goffin/King. I like Carol's demo version too, esp.with the latin mass included. Monkees most pyschedelic song. Wonder if the "Wrecking Crew" were involved.

[@clydekimsey7503]

3 good singers

[@ventonthorn3455]

Q: "What awful thing did Kanye West bring to music?" A: Kanye West

[@DAVID-ks9vp]

Just heard for the first (and last) time for a whole 10 seconds!

[@saintgeorge6706]

For me the greatest ruination visited upon music was the carpet bombing, mass consumption and endless hype brought on by hip-hop-rap. It was the Poleaxe that decapitated everything. 30 years ago I said it was a musical dead-end. I still think it is.

[@spiritof6663]

Yes!! For while Kanye is deservedly on this list, the scourge of hip-hop had already been around for at least two decades before him. I'd choose RUN-DMC (the first household rap star) or N.W.A. (the first successful gangsta rap artist) absolutely for this list. Hip-hop, along with the dance-pop popularized by Madonna and then homogenized through Britney, are the twin devils of modern pop music.

[@saintgeorge6706]

@@spiritof6663 Someone agrees with me for once. Most music trends last a few years and then morph into something else something new. Rap-Hip-Hop Just went on and on and on. It's so bloody dumb, boring and inane.

[@jonathanj.7344]

@@saintgeorge6706 I agree with you entirely. Left to it's own devices , Rap Hip-Hop would have been a short lived musical fad which would have soon died out, had it not been so relentlessly pushed by "the machine" for decades.

[@saintgeorge6706]

@@jonathanj.7344 I ordinarily get rained on for my unacceptable harsh views regarding the turgid ugly tripe that is hip hop rap. How this primitive niche music from another time and era went international and lasted decades after it's natural life span is a mystery. Seriously a lot of people bought and listened to this soulless sludge dressed up as music and kept it going to the present time. All I can surmise is that a lot of people really have shit for brains.

[@spiritof6663]

​@@saintgeorge6706 After coming up with awesome genres that defined the best of American culture like jazz, blues, R&B, rock'n'roll, soul, and funk, one after the other in rapid succession in the 50 years from the 1920s to 1970s, it both astonishes and saddens me to think that the black community has not moved on from hip-hop in the 45 years since it began to take off. You are exactly correct, it's stuck like glue for decades and indeed has been at the top of pop music now for at least 35 years. This is NOT natural; most musical genres peak and then move on after 5-10 years in the sun. It's like, when are people going to get tired of this and move on?? The answer is, apparently, *never* . I was born in 1975 so I've had to live with the dominance of the genre for most of my life, wondering year after year when it was going to end, and am now resigned to the simple fact that it will never end and thus, is the literal death of music. There IS some rap/hip-hop that I like, but it has been a poison overall. Something happened--I don't know if this is all just a dark CIA psyop plot or what, all I know is that it has had a mind-numbingly crippling impact on our culture. And from the community that had previously come up with all the best musical genres just before that!

[@paulmartinson875]

I think Frank Zappa explained some of this, about the old cigar chomping record execs opposed to the more recent hippie snobs taking over

[@robertsteinberger5667]

could you replace frank zappa with the velvet underground in this video?

[@PhilBaird1]

@@robertsteinberger5667 I think Frank was a rebel to the end and embodied much of what the original spirit of rock and roll was about. He could be difficult but he did it his way and was never co-opted by anybody or anything. Beefheart too.

[@peeper879]

@@robertsteinberger5667 and then replace Frank Zappa with the V U

[@toddmcdaniels1567]

Zappa pioneered the model that has preserved some degree of income for musicians nowadays. He started owning his own publishing and selling it direct to fans with his marketing company Barfco-Swill. Steve Hackett followed this model. Big Big Train followed that model. And nowadays lots of people even if just selling merch are following that model.

[@spellman007]

Ya I read his book too & he is just being bitter & wrong because it’s not HIS new music that is getting attention/popularity. Record executives in the San Francisco in the late 60s were sending A&R reps out to sign basically anyone & anything. They were in fact desperate to get a foot in the door of the new social movement. As long as it was making money they don’t care who is “taking over” same exact thing happened in the 80s with hair bands it just this time around the A&R guys had better practice.

[@mancuniancandidatem]

I think that the thing that really has ruined recorded and live popular music today is that most of the general public don't give a shit about it. It is not a high priority for them. For the majority of people, they don't really understand what they are listening to. They don't care how the music is made or what sounds they are listening to. We as musicians fail to realize we are in the minority when it comes to the appreciation of music. Many people don't know the difference between a melody or the sample of a dog barking on "Who Let the Dog's Out". They literally do not know the difference. It doesn't help that music appreciation is no longer taught in schools. Many schools no longer teach music at all. There is some amazing music going on today with the likes of Knower and Tigran Hamasyan but you never see music like that on prime time tv or radio. When I turn the radio on in the car it is still those 4 chord dross (voted into existence by a focus group of god knows who) that still manages to get through clear channel. There arn't even any oldies stations where I live now. Just one horrific stereo nightmare followed by another. Regurgitation of ideas that as a musician I can recognise are being recycled for the umpteenth time. The music just becomes more and more diluted as time goes by. As long as people keep eating McDonald's (even though they know there is actually no meat and potatoes in it), McDonald's will continue to sell.

[@Sanpablo147]

Well, but nobody had to "teach" me how to appreciate music. If they had, I probably wouldn't appreciate it as much as I do.

[@mancuniancandidatem]

@@Sanpablo147 That's a fair point. We did get music appreciation at school back in the 80s and I loved it, but I realised back then that most of the kids in the class didn't give a toss about Berlioz, Mozart, Bartok or Beethoven. The best bit about the lesson is that the teacher made us put our heads down on the desk, shut your eyes and listen for an hour. If you wanted to you could sleep through the whole lesson. Our teacher though, would not tolerate talking so occasionally you would hear the blackboard eraser smashing into somebody's table or skull depending on where it impacted, followed by "YOU BOY GET OUT ". 😂

[@PhilBaird1]

@@mancuniancandidatem Remember those music lessons well. It's even worse now though. The kids just tell the teacher to f**k off and there's nothing they can do. Teaching has long been a mug's game.

[@mancuniancandidatem]

@@PhilBaird1 haha. I just left an interview for a teaching job. 😭😂 They want me to start next week. Dreading it.

[@PhilBaird1]

@@mancuniancandidatem Good luck. You'll need it !

[@jimsalman7257]

Dis-honorable mention (early 2000s era): Limp Bizkit.

[@zaneblack3094]

While truly awful, I don't think they were actually very influential. They were more like the end product of all these other influences, and while massively popular for awhile, didn't pioneer any trends that still influence music today.

[@airfixx_8952]

@@zaneblack3094 - That whole NuMetal thing was just a blip.

[@IzunaSlap]

Just don't blame Korn, Deftones or Mike Patton, its not their fault

[@0tt0z]

They were awful.

[@airfixx_8952]

@@IzunaSlap Korn were right on the thick of it.... Guilty as charged.

[@richardrickford3028]

It is not just artists who have ruined music. It is the number of people who want instant gratification from music while they have to put in a minimum amount of effort. This is summed up by the lyric that Freddy Mercury sang "I want it all. I want it all. I want it all. And I want it now" There are some very brilliant pop songs that you get first time and really fire you up with joy or some other important emotion. There is nothing wrong with that. However there are other songs - both in that very broad umbrella "pop" and in other large umbrellas like jazz or classical or world that you have to be patient with. And put - dare I say it - a little effort into. When you do this with some songs and pieces of music the pay offs are enormous. They can bring you to whole new levels of enjoyment and understanding. But many (but by no means all) listeners demand an instant candy rush. And the music industry gives it to them. And they demand more of the same. And so on. There is a real need to slow down and really really listen to music. Many people are hooked on to this. But too many just crave more sugar. And just sugar is a bad diet.

[@bobf9749]

From the thirties and forties, popular music consisted of big bands, crooners like Sinatra, and trios like the Andrews Sisters. The big labels had a very secure source of income. In the early days, rock and roll was a fringe phenomenon, put out on small labels by artists few knew about. Elvis Presley almost single-handedly popularized rock and roll for the mainstream. He had the kind of sales that caught the attention of the big labels. They still had their secure income from mainstream popular music, but the chance of catching lightning in a bottle with another Elvis was too hard to resist. Enter the Beatles and the British Invasion and it was clear that rock was lucrative. The big labels became willing to take chances with new acts. The old popular stars were aging and not many new ones were coming along to replace them. There were revolutionary social changes, the post-war baby boom, the expansion of media, the Vietnam War, Civil Rights, and there were people forming bands and writing about those things. As the seventies progressed, the record labels were more dependent on rock. At the same time , costs were increasing. The companies needed guaranteed hit makers and people who could fill stadiums. From a business point of view, creativity is risky. You can hit it big with a novel artist or you can lose your shirt. So the industry has become tightly controlled by the labels and the music is as safe as possible - meaning eminently salable. The things that seem “risky” or “liberating” are only put out because they’re guaranteed to make a profit. But there are so many means of self-expression and so many venues for creativity now, that the corporate entertainment industry seems to be becoming more and more irrelevant. People will always want to make music, but what that music will sound like in the future is anybody’s guess. Particularly if it escapes the stranglehold of the corporations.

[@sparpant]

Andy, I’ve recently stumbled upon your KZbin output and I have to say you really are a grumpy, middle aged, opinionated Midlander. That’s something I can really identify with so keep up the good work! I disagree with a number of the things you say but there’d be no point watching your channel if I just agreed with you. I used to think it was just my advancing age that meant I didn’t enjoy modern music as much as older stuff but I’m now thoroughly convinced it’s just not as good and a lot of the points you made in this video do resonate with me. I would also like to lay some blame on production/songwriting teams like SAW, Mark Ronson and even Rodgers/Edwards for just homogenising the output of the artists they work with so that they become an extension of their brand rather than helping the artists grow by building on the unique attributes they already have.

[@Paul-tp9vf]

This grumpy, middle aged, opinionated midlander concurs. You'd love it in the bar at our bowls club.

[@stevecullen]

I disagree with your critique of Kraftwerk entirely. The notion of them being 'soul-less' is, for me, missing the whole point. Kraftwerk had a very classical (in the sense of music made before the recording era when orchestras and musicians, and in particular opera singers, did not employ techniques that are ubiquitous today - namely vibrato, which was a technique used on fretless instruments to compensate for discrepancies of pitch and was looked upon very unfavourably by live audiences then but sounds very strange to modern ears without it - the awful Witney warble anyone?) and rooted in a European based approach to melody. Their approach to melody was simplistic and diatonic - which I think is their greatest appeal. Of course, this simplicity appeals to non-musicians looking to form a Joy Division or whatever because it's the easiest to replicate and their use of machine technology is equally accessible but some of the most beautiful, and soul-full music ever made has this degree of simplicity in it - Satie and the best of Miles Davis are great examples. This un-soulfullness is, I think, because we have been brought up on flat-fifth nonsense as being somehow related to musical authenticity, when it is entirely the opposite thing. That 'blue-note' thing is a device and nothing more - it doesn't engender authenticity to a musical ear and is now a laughable parody of something rooted in issues like social freedom from slavery (which it never was) and authenticity in rock music (stolen and regurgitated endlessly). That screaming guitar guitar solo is more artificial than anything Kraftwerk produced. And this comes from a guitar player of over fifty years playing (and still playing) in that genre.

[@SPAZZOID100]

Kraftwerk, in some ways, were more important & influential than the Beatles.

[@stevecullen]

@@SPAZZOID100 Possibly. I think the influence of the Beatles is more overt and apparent and they certainly influenced the music industry. Kraftwerk on the other hand, were the best punk band to me because they were disruptive in everything they did. Experimental, unfashionable, largely faceless, inscrutable (from a British perspective at least) and mysterious. Their music and approach (along with bands like Can) is still in evidence today, from experimental avant garde jazz and electronic music, hip-hop and disco. The influence of Kraftwerk on modern music is definitely huge and not just from their use of simple diatonic melodies.

[@Error6503]

I don't think he's slagging off Kraftwerk, he's diss-ing the legions of bands who came after who thought that plonking an austere synth melody over a drum machine made them relevant. With most of the acts he mentions he's not complaining so much about the act themselves but the lasting effect they had on the music industry.

[@paulbangash4317]

I have always found ‘radioactivity’ a remarkably warm and human record regardless of its stark electronic content. Kraftwerk did some great stuff.

[@GOFFMEISTER]

Erm, Warhol did NOT assemble the VU. Reed met Cale before he met Warhol; basic research.

[@hoimoitoigoi]

erm 🤓☝️

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

@@hoimoitoigoi nob 'ead

[@newcoatresurfacing5477]

@@tommeadows-ie2xbNot true. Let’s assume that when Lou Reed finished with the Velvets in 1970 they were still largely unknown and obscure to most people. Yet Lou Reed went on to have a relatively successful solo career because he was a unique songwriter and a real talent. That alone was enough to get people to revisit his back catalogue with the Velvets which indeed they did. The Velvets are one of the most influential bands of all time and cited as a major influence by countless artists to this day which to my mind makes their legacy a positive one. Not sure how Andy thinks they were a negative influence on music especially given Lou Reeds unquestioned songwriting chops. The Velvets were the antidote to the summer of love. There’s always enough space for everyone in the music market.

[@HB-zi3og]

It is true. The VU recorded their 1st demos a year before they hooked up with Warhol, but I get your point. Since the 80's VU worship has been pretty sickening. Just for the record, I think their folk influenced 3rd album is their best.

[@SunhairSpiralmind]

Omg, I can't stand the Foo Fighters. They're one of the most overrated bands ever.

[@criddyla696]

Rage ON BEHALF of THE MACHINE

[@allrequiredfields]

Oh come on, they're not THAT bad. My problem with Grohl is he needs to be a creative *member* of a band instead of just a solo artist with some lackeys playing *exactly* what they're told, pretending to be a band.

[@brendonlake1522]

Foo fighters have made many really good to great songs, I think they get all the flack for their commercial hits but listen to 'the colour and the shape,' there's a raw rage there to appreciate.

[@peteywheatstraws4909]

Grohl needs to go back to playing the drums.

[@Midlifer69]

I couldn’t agree more . I’ll stick the RedHot Chili peppers in there too

[@OliSpleen]

11:40 Andy Warhol by no means "put together" The Velvet Underground. They were already fully formed before Warhol discovered them with most of the songs from their first album written. Andy did manage them and give them a space to rehearse, he also grafted Nico onto the band and brought a lot of attention to them. He was credited as producing their debut album but he certainly didn't put the band together by any means.

[@pascaldeshayes5459]

Lots of very relevant points, Andy. And well articulated. Thank you for being courageous enough to express your thoughts. Herbie Hancock's linear notes on Jaco Pastorius' first album came to my mind listening to you : "... Of course, it's not the technique that makes the music; it's the sensitivity of the musician and his ability to be able to fuse his life with the rhythm of the times. This is the essence of music. ..." I've been saying for years now that mainstream music has, for the most part, lost its idealogical dimension. Music as a carrier for ideas has been one of the reasons I've felt so attracted to it, so I sometimes feel a bit lost in today's musical landscape. Hopefully, we've got artists like Louis Cole, Mono Neon, Jacob Collier, Cory Wong, The Fearless Flyers, etc. who seem to be doing their thing. At least their music sounds "right", aligned with who they are (to me, at least).

[@kaned3570]

cher, just because it bought auto tune into the mainstream and thats all you hear now

[@fightersweep]

Agreed. That alone should have seen Cher serving a prison sentence.

[@erikheddergott5514]

@@kaned3570 Sorry but that is totally ignorant. I know Avantgarde Musicians who „hated“ her for doing with Autotune what they usually do: Deconstructing it. By willfully abusing it she produced the Kind of Sound Avantgarde Musicians would go for. The Way she used it was not for what it was invented for. One Reason why Live Concerts in big Arenas with usually rather bad Sound nowadays sound acceptable is due to that ubiquitous Device. Cher not only has the Best Beauty Surgeons in Pop Business but also one of the sharpest Brains. She knows how Glamour works.

[@kaned3570]

​@@erikheddergott5514 1, just having a bit of fun , 2, which aventgarde muscians? 3 it wasnt her doing it was the producer mark taylor, 4, it has been called the cher effect for many years so it was indeed like i said bought into the mainstream by this record, 5 , whats her numerous face lifts got to do with anything?

[@erikheddergott5514]

@@kaned3570 It is so many Years ago that I read in British Monthly Wire that some Avant-garde Guys complained about here killing the Effect for them. But I do not remember who they were. Sorry! The Technician brought it up but it was her Decision to go for it. And again she brought the „Abuse“ of Auto-Tune into the Game but not the regular Way of using the Device. She just played it as a better Vocoder or Talking Box. I have seen Bands and their Singers actively improvising with Auto-Tune as if it were a Voice Synthesizer. It is nowadays used by most Bands live on Stage because highly electrified loud Concerts make it hard for Singers to hear themselves in the Wall of Sounds of Live Concerts correctly. Listen to old Live Bootlegs of the 70tees and you hear how many Good Singers were not able to pitch their Melodies in Tune even though they could sing very Good in Church for Instance. Auto-Tunes makes Vocals sound much better. The Surgeon bit reflects on her Pop Expertise.

[@Lupi33z]

if not her someone else would've...everything is heading the way of automation

[@stephenmarsden5379]

I think you are wrong about the Velvet Underground. They weren't put together by Warhol, they existed several years before their association with the Factory and Warhol's involvement was relatively short lived.

[@SPY1964-LL]

Warhol had the money and media to hype them. They had some okay stuff, but really were degenerate.

[@rickg8015]

@@SPY1964-LLRick Wakeman hated VU.. He did sessions on piano for Lou in his debut solo album tgough..

[@SPY1964-LL]

@@rickg8015 I did not know that. Rick was a pro session guy. I cannot see him getting into VU at all. Wrong vibe etc. Thanks!

[@garygomesvedicastrology]

True. But I think they wouldn't have gotten the attention that they did without the Warhol stamp. But we will never really know for sure. The Velvets debut sold 30,000 copies by 1971. That is not shabby.

[@SPY1964-LL]

@@garygomesvedicastrology I agree. I love some of their tunes "Sunday Morning" "shiny shiny boots of leather..." "There she goes" basic haunting pop songs...I think "goth" got their tips here. When they were good they were good. I even like Doug's vocals later. Nico was a trip. Cheers Mate!

[@theshrubberer]

very good video Andy. BTW, you could do a philosophy sunday about the negative and positive impact of Art Criticism in general. As a visual artist, I am always frustrated by the way the visual art gatekeepers, the critics and curators, who are mostly "word" people favor art that they can "talk about", and the "crit talk" becomes a vortex that suck in new artists who try to direct their art to what the critics valorize. And we now have this horrible scenario where the art world is a spin zone, where identity of the artist and the brand and "the MESSAGE" are over valorized, and real counter trend art is excluded by the very gatekeepers who hypocritically proclaim to be pro-innovation, but in reality are the force working (perhaps unknowingly and unwittingly) against innovation.

[@JohnnyArtPavlou]

Some get anointed… They get into the biennials… They get into the good galleries… They get written up… The become collected… And then they influenced the culture and by influencing the culture they get written into the history books. Look… I like the painterly aspects of Jean-Michel Basquiat. And he throws in MO lounge of things about Power and the police and race and all of that stuff to keep it spicy and interesting. But it’s impossible for me to say if he’s a good artist or an important artist because he’s part of the story, and the work becomes familiar and it’s marketed at you and it’s very hard to have a clear idea about it. But it’s entirely possible that he could’ve gone on making those paintings and never be noticed or maybe he never would’ve made paintings if he wasn’t noticed in the first place, while he was cosplaying, Bohemianism. On the other hand, it’s not hard to say that Keith Haring is not a great artist. He was a super doodler. But he became part of the culture and he was nice and charming and he was nice to children and then he had the gay thing and all of that stuff and who could hate him because he was really nice. And awfully clever. He made those posters and stuff. So he’s part of history and part of culture and he deserves a place but you can’t say that he’s a great artist.

[@scottdavis2252]

Peter Tork played guitar, bass, banjo, keyboard/piano Mike Nesmith was a guitar player and song writer who'd written a hit song before the Monkees recorded by Stone Pony. David Jones was a drummer who was also a professional theatre actor . Mickey Dolens was an actor and played guitar

[@emilybennett6567]

Ed Sullivan introduced The Beatles and Davy Jones to America on the same night! Davy was there as a member of the Broadway cast of Oliver. Which is a play that I dislike intensely. Poor Davy.

[@janloftness]

The Monkees may have been able to play some instruments but they did NOT play on their albums or any of their hits. The finest session musicians available at Capitol Records had that honor. There are people to this day who believe that the Monkees were a truly great band because the music was so good. It was all for a tv show! Mike Nesmith had real problems with the pretense and it was well known how unhappy he was being a “Monkee”. That being said, I loved the Monkees, the tv show and the music. How could I not, being ten years old in 1967?

[@h.m.7218]

I hate rap. Always have, always will. Beginning of the end for me was rap becoming huge at the start of the 90s. Rap is so shitty a genre it took not long before it had to be built around pop hooks of the past in order to keep being relevant...

[@johnmorgan7947]

H.m. 💥💥👏👏👏👏👏💯

[@finlybenyunes8385]

Couldn't agree more!

[@marioberthiaume]

I agree - I call it the cancer of music - and now this cancer is spreading even in country music - which was the last place you could hear melodic stuff

[@p.d.l7023]

I don't even consider it music. Yet, it's in every: Movie, tv show, video game, commercial, break at a sporting event.... Not book stores though. That's where the smart people go. 😅

[@finlybenyunes8385]

@@p.d.l7023 (C)rap

[@JonnyDee123]

Popular music is definitely at a really low ebb. The charts have become a total irrelevance. Sell 20 copies of an album at a car boot and you're in danger of becoming a bestseller. Of course there is still much great music out there but it has to be sought out. The soundbite - style over substance - has never been more zeitgeist for the mainstream.

[@orlock20]

While the pop charts have gotten worse, the top 10 in any year was generally not the best music of it's time.

[@EncoreASMR]

I haven't looked at the charts since 2005. The last thing I remembered was My Chemical Romance taking no 20 in the UK Singles chart with Helena. A moment I realised that the charts barely mattered much

[@JonnyDee123]

@@EncoreASMR Me neither, and I have never been a fan of Pop per se. But it's inescapable as background noise. And that noise is definitely a lot more annoying than it used to be.

[@JonnyDee123]

@@orlock20 Absolutely.

[@kaned3570]

anyone produced by stock aitken and waterman

[@Carboggg]

@@kaned3570 Yes, cold, calculated production line muzac. Mowtown showed that production line music can be made with great heart, soul and passion

[@Sirdamienfrost]

Judas Priest still do not have the guts or integrity to release the tracks they did with them.

[@kaned3570]

​@@Sirdamienfrostdid they realy?

[@Carboggg]

@@Sirdamienfrost Couldn't have been any worse than Captain Sensible's horrific solo singles, which somehow sold bucket loads more than the Damned punk classic New Rose.

[@kaned3570]

​@@Carbogggthats not very happy talk

[@HatfulofHallow]

The Devil wouldn't reveal himself to us as some kind of dictator. He'd wear the sheep's clothing of Ed Sheeran

[@finlybenyunes8385]

Or Donald Trump 🍊🐷👹

[@porcudracului]

Excellent

[@Longislandteaboy]

Madonna paved the way for average singers to just be controversial and pandering for success. Not that at times visually madonna was pioneering. But it all seemed contrived.

[@AutisticVaxtard]

It's inversion of real Madonna. She is star magic lady 👃

[@cimmyjarter]

Thanks!

[@elithepitbulldog2209]

Your rant mirrors my thought exactly. Thanks for standing up to the machine…

[@ianpope6133]

If we are talking "Emperor;s new clothes" - what about the Spice Girls?

[@taintedlife2618]

Yeah if we really want the downfall of cool I trace it back to them. we had a great alternative music scene and Brit Pop and grunge then they came along and ruined everything. Alanis and Jewel watered down music before that Happened although Alanjs has her strengths.

[@skyblazeeterno]

They had some great pop songs...much like a female Monkees

[@caramanico1]

Hey Andy - love the channel. I think you came up with a really good angle here. Here's another one. I read awhile ago that rock's death began with the completely unexpected - and outrageously huge - success of Frampton Comes Alive. That was the point where "the suits" realized that they could not only make really good money with rock music, but they could make gadzillions upon gadzillions jof dollars. Hence, the second wave of classic rock bands like Journey, Kansas, Kiss, Foreigner etc... hit the market. They were all using the same formula as demanded by the labels (with minor tweaks) - cleaned up poppier hard rock with a powerful lead singer, a guitar hero and a thudding rhythm section.

[@Charliefreak]

Old man moans about being old. Modern music is an endless disappointment though (I’m even older).

[@plusgoodproductions1550]

I would be more concerned about the likes of Mumford & Sons than corporate garbage since the middle 80s. Remember the "quality media" was pushing this dogshit. Or should we blame millennials in general? 😜

[@DavidOhlerkingII]

David Bowie said that Phil Collins ruined music for the 80s.

[@Dunlop-hg2ql]

Well, speaking of Bowie, THIS guy must think pretty little of HIM too I guess because HE is known to have been influenced by both The Velvet Underground and Kraftwerk (two groups included on his list here). It's therefore presumable that he'd consider HIM to be another example of "ruined music".

[@Pheonix5-ih8hc]

@@Dunlop-hg2ql Not to mention Trent Reznor.

[@stevenhenry5267]

He's abominably bad

[@ColeSlaw-rg1gd]

I always considered THAT to be Michael "King of Pop" Jackson.

[@PaulThatcher-iu5in]

The malign influence of Lou Reed is real: there's an interview with him after arriving in Australia, smacked out of his head... If you look at the comments, everyone's, like, oh, it's so cool, and yet the reality is, he's an empty, arrogant, boring, smug smackhead. His whole "watch out kids, otherwise you'll end up like Lou Reed" wasn't the cause of so much mindless loss, but a serious promoter of it. I like many VU songs, but let's face it, there's a lot of dross, and it only made it cos snobby Andy Warhol promoted it.

[@smalltown2223]

What ruined music was accessibility. The minute we stopped paying for it was the minute everything got dummer. I’m generalising but it just becomes less important when something is free.

[@skyblazeeterno]

Yes let's go back to the 70s where the only music you could hear was on a few radio channels and random sampling of records in a local shop. Fast forward to 2024 and you have millions of songs at your fingertips just a few clicks away....I'd prefer the latter....sooooo much music is now available

[@nivac5227]

One of the greatest things that Nirvana brought was that they put alternative music into the mainstream for almost a decade. MTV played videos of Björk, Beck, Portishead or Nine Inch Nails every hour everyday. However, all that ended - and for me that was the turning point in the decline of pop music - when the Backstreet Boys performed for the first time at an MTV awards show (I think in 1999). From that moment on, they incorporated boy bands and Latin pop into MTV LA's programming (which had previously been shown on competing channels) and reality shows while gradually were eliminating alternative music (by then such a parody like Linkin Park or Nickelback). Then technology did its thing. By the way, I found your analysis of Kraftwerk very interesting.

[@JB-ti7bl]

A few years back on allmusic, I left a 3-star review of a Velvet Underground album that had an overall 5-star rating from both fans and the site. To me the sound quality is horrible and only a few of the songs are engaging. I went back about a year later to check my review and make sure I still agreed with myself. THE REVIEW WAS GONE. So, that's one way the music industry protects its icons: no criticism allowed.

[@LongLiveRockAnRoll]

For fans of music like Velvet Underground that's supposed to be challenging and evoking a strong emotional response, a 3 out of 5 review is probably worse than a 1 out of 5. At least a 1 star means you feel strongly in some way. I wonder if a 1 star would have stayed up?

[@brianbutler3318]

VU needed a singer. Lou Reed was not a singer.

[@lioneldemun6033]

​@@brianbutler3318everybody knew back then that he was a junkie

[@brianbutler3318]

@@lioneldemun6033 I don’t care what drugs he did, I’m offended that he doesn’t care about singing in tune.

[@argusfleibeit1165]

Ya finally got me when you snarled at Rick Beato. I'm old now, and have enjoyed a lot of music. I have also nursed great grudges of hatred towards a lot of music. I really feel that today's situation comes down to a few things, that were originally seen as good for music and musicians. 1)Affordable home recording, with access to release music oneself with no gate-keepers between you and a potential listener. 2)Glamorization and acceptance of minimal technical skill, with an emphasis on "originality" of "sounds", paired with impoverishment of musical education. 3) In the guise of all kinds of liberation and empowerment, image and lyrical bent full of slutty sex, criminal behavior, worship of wealth, substance abuse, relationship violence, and mental illness and 4)commercialization and sales over everything, using digitized recording and pitch correction for the lowest investment of time and money to create product. The resulting glut of "product" cannot be absorbed by human ears, making everything unlistenable and disposable, and worth nothing. The record companies had lots of problems, but if you managed to become a star, you meant something to people. Records were important. My old records still mean a lot to me. And I know kids today love their contemporary stars too. There is talent out there. But the latest development in hip-hop has turned out even worse than even I could have imagined. It's a nightmare and a tragedy all around.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

Number 2 isn't cut and dried. Punk came along as a necessary reaction to excessive musicianship. Technical skills do not necessarily equate to making great music - see the many talented session musicians who can't write anything worth hearing.

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

So in other words... the music industry ruined music.

[@wordup897]

Music, film, art, architecture, food, medicine, government... Everything corporate touches gets turned to trash.

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

@@wordup897 Seems to me there's a *pattern* in there waiting to be recognized. Hmmmmmm......

[@wordup897]

@@LordHasenpfeffer Stay tuned to your local channel for your next weather and virus bulletins... beeeeep

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

@@wordup897 I am my local channel. Why aren't you yours?

[@LordHasenpfeffer]

@@wordup897 What exactly were you saying with that reply? After coming back to it 3 weeks later, I can interpret it 2 different *opposite* ways.

[@0oDaan12o0]

Things like Napster, Apple music, MTV and Idol shows perfectly killed the focus on music in music. These artists you mentioned made perfect use of that to rise to the top without having to focus on the quality of their music at all.

[@joeleigh-corrigan7762]

I never liked Madonna, she affected me in much the same way as would a diet of cheap confectionery. It was all too sweet, too colourful and hopelessly devoid of any real substance. She constipated the airwaves and in the end, there was just too much of her.

[@wrekintaichi6536]

Kurt Cobain stopped taking H and realised that he'd married Courtney Love - we all know the rest...

[@porcudracului]

He's been married to. He didn't marry her

[@taintedlife2618]

Courtney Love was his muse. Without her his work wouldn’t be the same.

[@stevenhenry5267]

False

[@stevenhenry5267]

False

[@ServerPower-e9o]

@@taintedlife2618 False

[@alexdevisscher6784]

Came for the rant, stayed for the philosophical essay.

[@ChristChickAutistic]

What killed modern music? Let's see now, Autotune, vocal and instrument compression, the music industry hiring pretty faces instead of competent musicians and singers, the rampant abuse in all varieties like the "casting couch" and financial blackmail, the dumbing down of the educational system, cutting music programs in schools, the list goes on. My children are musically inclined, and my youngest has recently decided to explore classic and progressive rock, so I said start with The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Moody Blues. Kiddo already loves King Crimson and Yes, so things are going along nicely. 😂

[@WInnerwinnerchickendinner.]

In the 70's as kids I remember we all loved listening to and watching The Monkees TV show.I think The Monkees as people became their true selves( as to manufactured puppets) in The Monkees movie 'Head' .The movie Head (1968) was a surreal and experimental film starring the pop-rock band The Monkees. It was co-written by Jack Nicholson and directed by Bob Rafelson. The movie was a departure from the fun, family-friendly image of The Monkees TV show and took a bizarre, anti-establishment, and almost psychedelic approach. It didn’t follow a traditional narrative structure but was more a series of loosely connected, surreal vignettes. In Head, the band members find themselves in a variety of strange, exaggerated situations that satirize commercialism, Hollywood, war, and celebrity culture. The film is filled with cameos, trippy visuals, and absurdist humor. Each scene plays with themes like the artificiality of fame and the emptiness of pop stardom, which was ironic considering The Monkees' success as a manufactured pop group. The movie was a box-office failure at the time but has since gained a cult following, appreciated for its unique, countercultural style and critique of the entertainment industry. It’s also noted for its innovative editing and groundbreaking use of visual and audio effects.

[@WInnerwinnerchickendinner.]

BTW John Lennon of The Beatles told Davy Jones of The Monkees that he loved The Monkees Tv series and never missed and episode.

[@DavidPrice-qu2yc]

The entire universe is a corporation. There is no individuality. Music is a microcosm of it all. Social media makes people “stars” overnight. And society is so simple minded and distracted , they happily eat the slop they are served.

[@lanceforney5321]

Thank you for talking about Linkin Park. I grew up in the 90s and I could never understand how anyone cared about them.

[@Les537]

It's what I used to call whiner rock.

[@RogueReplicant]

They do have one great song: New Divide. But that's about it 😊

[@taintedlife2618]

That I agree with. NuMetal is also awful

[@stevenhenry5267]

Terrible band.

[@dtltmtgt]

Brilliant video Andy!! One of your best IMO. Great work!

[@th5841]

Brilliant sarcasm!

[@Bobmacca64]

'Taylor Swift is my shepherd...she leadeth me through pastures of crud. As I walk through the valley of bland pop rock, I shall fear no evil( aka good music) for she is by my side.'

[@zenlandzipline]

She will go down in history as a Savior.

[@klasseact6663]

Simp😂

[@ridethelapras]

She is musical antichrist.

[@miykaelp5284]

@@zenlandzipline ummm no

[@zenlandzipline]

@@miykaelp5284 yup. When Harris takes North Carolina by 1 percentage point, and wins the electoral college and beats Trump to become president, we can look to Taylor Swift getting her Swifties out to register to vote and pull the lever for Kamala. Taylor already got like 500,000 of her fans to register.

[@SydBarrettArchives]

I think you missed 2 very important ones. Cher accidentally introducing auto tune as an aesthetic vs just a studio tool with "Do you believe"... And I would have also included Elvis becoming a movie star more than a musical artist.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Yes, I agree...they should be here

[@rebirthaudio2023]

More great analysis mate, very throught-provoking stuff about how great bands can influence music for the worse, even if unintentionally. BTW I think the pop music of the last five years, really since lockdown, has been really good. There's some great modern talents at the moment IMO - Becky Hill, The Weeknd, Dua Lipa, Rag'n'Bone Man, Sam Smith (regardless of dress sense and personal life, Sam's music has mostly been great!). Their music adheres to all that makes good, musically-sophisticated, timeless pop music, and modern production tools mean that the overall sound is much less clunky and more organic sounding than previously. Also I think something changed after lockdown - a return to actual songwriting skills. When it comes to samples or reworked oldies, is that really that different to sticking to the 12 bar blues chord pattern or "4 Chords" progression, if you can do something different with them and put your own stamp on it?

[@Carboggg]

More than any 10 Artists, I think MTV played a huge part in the decline of pop music! People started to ask "have you seen the latest video by X" more than they asked if you heard their latest song. MTV also lead to the decline of the once hugely popular and important Top Of Ths Pops. That shows demise lead onto there being less and less interest in the charts. Never mind a band or solo artist having a number one, at one time it was a big deal having a top ten or even top 20 or 30. Bands/Artists could have, long, successful careers off the back of just a few big hits. Everyone, from kids to grandparents knew the popstars and their songs during the golden eras, whereas today, the only Taylor Swift song I know is Shake It Off. A song I do like btw

[@Sanpablo147]

Wow. That is the one and only Taylor Swift song that I know also. What are the odds?

[@orlock20]

Music was always spoon fed to the mass audience and MTV, VH1 and CMT replaced the radio which was on the take anyways. The idea that people would go to the record store and look for unknown acts is overblown. The internet did more damage to the pop scene because it allowed people to listen to music old and current for free. Not only could they listen to it for free, they could listen to what they wanted to listen to at any time. The local music scene became a chore to go and listen to hoping that the music was good.

[@Carboggg]

@@orlock20 There's a big and significant difference between hearing a song on the radio and watching a video of a song on MTV. Listening to the radio you judge a song entirely on what it sounded like, which was definitely not the case when MTV arrived. I remember being in a Birmingham city centre record shop the day Michael Jackson's Thriller video premiered in the UK. The shop was absolutely rammed but they were there to watch the massively hyped video, not to listen to a rather average pop song. There is no way that song would have been anywhere near the hit that it was without that hugely expensive video and the ridiculous amount of hype which surrounded it. I completely agree with the rest of your post though.

[@orlock20]

@@Carboggg Pop stations play maybe 200 or less songs per year and genre stations play maybe 40 per year (sometimes the same 40 every year). That's far fewer than the 10s of thousands of songs made per year.

[@TheNightBadger]

But MTV really didn't hit the UK until cable in the mid to late 90's. It only appeared on Sky at the end of the 80's and most people didn't have Sky. I would argue Top of the Pops started to decline when Pop music began dying in the early 90's due to the anti 80's kick starting, along with SAW becoming so ubiquitous that anything sounding overly poppy was rejected by the public. Dance music became the new pop, and the Indie bands were resolutely un-poppy. The very notion of 'being entertaining' for a band in the mid 90's was anathema. I watched Top of the Pops struggle to be relevant through the 90's saying it was slowly dying - I said the same about mags like Smash Hits. Then when cable came along the audience for BBC started to dissipate even more, lowering the viewing figures, then the internet hit and... it was all over. The handful of pop acts the 90's produced (Steps, S-Club, Spice Girls and some Girl 'Bands', Take That and some boy 'Bands') were not enough to sustain the show. I think it was dying by the start of the 90's and just slowly lost more and more relevance (and viewers). Watch some of the classic eps on IPlayer - in the 70's it's tacky but fun, 80's it's got a silly 'party' atmosphere which seems to fit not matter who the artist is (they were more stylised and visual which worked, and the music was more melodic), then you get to the 90's eps and it becomes... what's happening? It just stops working.

[@kevincorrigan7893]

The Fall WERE a great band and Mark E Smith WAS a twat. They're not mutually exclusive facts. He was an incredible lyricist and the Fall were probably the single most influential band in post-punk (even to this day) after VU. 90% of neo-punk and so-called underground bands I hear now are heavily Fall-derivative. I suppose that this is precisely your point, but except to the extent that the imitators of these bands were often lacking in creativity and originality, neither the Fall nor VU "ruined" music. Did Zeppelin "ruin" music because they spawned a legion of derivative and less-talented imitators? Or because the Robert Plant-type screechy blonde wailing front man became the norm? The fact that you don't like the critics who lauded VU and the Fall and who hated Genesis and Yes doesn't mean those critics were wrong about VU and the Fall. It just means they were wrong about Genesis and Yes. :) (I love all these bands btw though I dislike the Ramones.)

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I said Velvet Underground were great...I did. The Fall?? bad memories of twatty people at art college....

[@kevincorrigan7893]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer But it seems you think the critics are wrong about them because those critics don't like prog.

[@mrharry448]

​@@AndyEdwardsDrummerThe twatty people at Art College probably put 'The Fall' in the same basket of 'poet'' as John Cooper Clarke et al. and never put The Fall in the 'music' category for them to ruin

[@scottbookman]

I can't dance like Britney Spears is the name of my solo album.

[@soulbrother5435]

I am big fan of Ramones, but you're got a point about them influencing lots of shit bands like blink-182 that I can't stand. Ramones themselves were real deal though, they rooted in 60s rock n roll they just played it more aggressive

[@HB-zi3og]

They also heavily influenced some good ones - The Clash, Pistols, Undertones, Buzzcocks, Nirvana, Pixies to name a few

[@soulbrother5435]

@@HB-zi3og yeah all this bands sounds different from Ramones though. They were influenced by Ramones among other things. Different thing from commercial pop punk started in mid 90s

[@periel]

Kanye was is definitely an example of “The Emperor’s New Clothes” perpetuated by a complicit news media.

[@lamecasuelas2]

A special mention should be made for Steve Jobs, he wasn't an artist but he fucked up music real bad, didn't he?

[@davidmorgan6896]

By making it more available?

[@lamecasuelas2]

@@davidmorgan6896 no, by underminig it's importance and giving back the control to the big guys

[@davidmorgan6896]

@@lamecasuelas2 When did "the big guys) ever relinquish control? Niche bands have always been stifled by lack of distribution. The distributors have always controlled access to promotion through incestuous deals with broadcasting. Broadcasters limit what the public hears. Streaming has just shifted the control to tech companies and away from broadcasters and distributors.

[@lamecasuelas2]

@@davidmorgan6896 the fucker preceded the whole Spotify model that we live in today.

[@lamecasuelas2]

@@davidmorgan6896 well ,they did loose a Little but of their grip (just a lil' bit)when Napster came Out. Then Jobsy Jobsy came and said, look, when can use this new internet stuff but this Time, we can have the control. So if you were already outsise of the mainstream bubble you were kind of fucked already, but with the never model you were twice as fucked. Thanks Apple! And now Spotify

[@WoodyGamesUK]

I think Coldplay ruined music not only it was terrible music, but ironically it also set a new reference for what many people considered "good music". People really do love Coldplay for the music, they love it for the right reasons, they are music lovers. Except that it isn't good music (and it opened the door for other bands to do totally bland music that is considered good music).

[@andybaker7954]

Corporate Rock at its worst.

[@Lupi33z]

good call...so many of the bands the kids listen these days (I assume, or maybe just the ones I hear in shops) seem inspired by that whiny MOR dross... like that Noah guy... dunno the rest of his name. godawful

[@ChockHolocaust]

Best description of Coldplay I ever heard, and I can't remember who it was who said it unfortunately, but they were spot on: 'Coldplay is band for people who don't actually like music'

[@shspurs1342]

Coldplay were always new version of U2. They used to make rock albums. Then started making childish pop rock songs.

[@HB-zi3og]

Coldplay were trying to ape late 90's Radiohead. Another strike against Radiohead 😂

[@Tcoldsteel]

Andy Warhol didn’t put the Velvet Underground together.

[@Unfunny_Username_389]

Yes that's simply ignorant.

[@lpslade5800]

Without Warhol, no one would care about the VU In 1966, Andy Warhol became their manager. They served as the house band at Warhol's studio, the Factory, and his traveling multimedia show, the Exploding Plastic Inevitable , from 1966 to 1967. Warhol coproduced their 1st album. Please know the facts ppl

[@tobiasguether1862]

I agree that they wouldn't have made their break without Warhol's involvement but he didn't put the band together. He added Nico for optics, and produced the first album. This Scepter cut was rejected by the studio and completely re-recoded later. I'd say the concept and song base for the group was pretty much created before his involvement.

[@dibdab101]

@@lpslade5800 but you could say that about the Pistols and Malcolm McLaren.

[@Unfunny_Username_389]

@@tobiasguether1862 "Produced" the first album. Quotes definitely required. 😆

[@jonathanj.7344]

I can remember when the pop scene was a social/cultural phenomenon, when rock bands ruled and everyone followed the top 20. The music was everywhere, hairdressers, supermarket, the workplace, even in the school canteen queue. What happened? The energy of the pop scene evaporated with the phasing out of bands, and it's been "replaced" by the bigging up of football (soccer). Now when you tune on the radio or go the CoOp store, it's vintage hits.

[@gennarogiordano2823]

Excellent perspective, very well done.

[@monaural2.988]

The 1940’s WW II generation insisted Alan Freed and Elvis Presley destroyed “good music”. Eight years later, The Beatles had some haters from that first “Elvis generation”. The hippies of the late 60’s caused a division amongst the earlier pop music fans, some of whom went to the earlier Elvis/Bill Haley sounds, others went to country music with Jerry Lee Lewis & Conway Twitty. The Disco arrival in 1975 divided some Rock fans, some of whom liked the sounds of KC and Donna Summer, and some who went on to Boston, Kiss and corporate sounds like Styx. There was yet another divide in 1977 with Punk’s entrance, dividing those devoted to Led Zeppelin and those embracing the Ramones & Clash. Today there is a battle over Taylor Swift, both sides digging in their heels on the internet. What does all this mean? THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME.

[@misterknightowlandco]

They’re all right. Classical music is the APEX of western civilization’s artistic output. So yeah each generation did make music dumber and dumber…

[@bunsw2070]

Wrong. Modern popular music really is very bad. Been to the dental hygienist lately and had to list to the radio? It's brutal. No wonder people are lining up for the experimental vaccine. They've lost hope.

[@somerandomvertebrate9262]

The inherent relativism of your reasoning is destroying your argument. It hides the fact that today's "music" is dead, worthless zombie dross all across the line.

[@michaelwills1926]

Pop bands and pop music are a key component of cultural programming, since 1955

[@roboi2241]

Thing is about the 60s and 70s you could have bands like Herman's Hermits, the Monkees, Love Affair or Bay City Rollers, manufactured but with great pop songs because there was so much great stuff and so many brilliant songwriters that contriving a band didn't matter and it didn't dominate the music scene though the idea had been sown. What we have today is probably not even so much the music industry manufacturing artists on us. With the likes of Swift and Sheeran it's almost like the very corporate establishment and their technocrats are using all their apparatus, media, advertising and indoctrination techniques to inflict these performers on the masses and decide for them these are their superstars. Because people today are so totally media nurtured, gullible and conformist, there's less inclination for them to develop or take unique enjoyment in their own musical tastes. I'm truly astonished at the music even older people my age tolerate today and don't find an utter vexation to the mind and soul. Maybe it's because so many people live through their children or grandkids and psychologically associate these dreadful sounds with them. I even saw Nigel Farage come in to do his conference speech today like a boxer's ring walk or darts player's entrance, to some awful teenage rap track or whatever they call it today.

[@johnnhoj6749]

Herman's Hermits came together organically in Manchester well before they had any interest from a record company. Like them or not, they were no less genuine a group than any of the Merseybeat groups up the road in Liverpool.

[@roboi2241]

@@johnnhoj6749 So did Love Affair and the Rollers originally but all these bands were controlled by the record industry to the 8th degree. The only thing that set them apart from The Monkees is that they weren't originally a concept of record or tv executives.

[@Veaseify]

Nickelback and Creed are probably the two most hated bands of the last 30 years for ruining rock but if they started up now playing the same songs a lot of people who claim to hate them would be telling other people that there are these two great bands playing 'real' music...

[@Heheha329]

Creed led to alter bridge tho.Honestly that vocalist was holding Creed back.

[@mark.8949]

I never understood the Nickelback hate, I like their music and I am not ashamed of it.

[@Veaseify]

@@mark.8949 I am the same, I think it was they were seen as a 'pretend' rock band...the total absence of guitar solos being a big giveaway

[@BongoShaftsbury1]

The producers of the Monkees did NOT ruin anything, and the band itself was an integral part of the ascendancy of the Los Angeles Sound. The show was a satire of the industry and it honors the legacy of The Wrecking Crew, Tommy Boyce, Carole King, Neil Diamond, Bob Rafelson, and Lou Adler.

[@petern3363]

Thanks Andy, I think I agree with all the points you make. Now I'm worried.

[@SPY1964-LL]

Great video Andy! Bravo! more!