Why did Britain give up Oregon? (Short Animated Documentary)

[@prodigymapping4891]

It was nice of Britain to be an Oregon donor to the United States.

[@mikedrewson5545]

First like

[@MeathMapper]

good one

[@noidea4223]

This comment wins.

[@Plutotheaxolotl]

I’m here before this gets popular

[@alex_mcburney]

Lmao

[@mrterp04]

“In return the Americans sent people. Lots of people” Sign: “At least six” Wow. That’s a lot of people

[@bobing1752]

That's at least one full house

[@landsraad9745]

It's enough for a house to gain control of a whole prairie. House...on the prairie

[@AnthonyHandcock]

It is if they are hitting you with big sticks.

[@DKforever24]

I think its supposed to be a joke on how for every 1 Anglo-Canadian there was in the Oregon Territory, there were 6 Americans by the time the agreement was signed.

[@anaverageyoutubeuser]

But the Americans keep coming and they don’t stop coming. Hopped in their wagons and they hit the ground running.

[@r.a.acosta6528]

This was incredibly informative. The U.S. gaining ownership over the Northwestern Oregon territories kind of always got glossed over in school or packaged together alongside the U.S. gaining California and most of the Western territories in the Mexican-American War. Spain and Russia claiming ownership of it, despite hardly being able to defend the claim, is also hilarious. Kind of crazy that the British didn't at least get a monetary payout for the land, but the Russians did.

[@landsraad9745]

US policy back then was try to give Britain nothing, everytime

[@hawkeyeten2450]

The Russians tried their luck in some pretty bizarre places. The Russian Empire actually tried to form a colony in East Africa, which failed miserably, so they instead gave weapons and supplies to Ethiopia (since apparently they felt the views of their Christian churches were pretty similar). This partnership is partially why Ethiopia was able to defeat Italy's attempt to colonize them in the 1890s.

[@MacTac141]

Honestly it came down to the main issue of British North America & Canada following it, we just don’t have enough people for the amount of land, and never really have

[@ForOne814]

@@hawkeyeten2450 that was a private endeavor that wasn't backed up by the government. Government-backed attempts were made in Hawaii, for example, Fort Elizabeth. As to the faiths being similar, Ethiopian Church is Orthodox, just as Russian one.

[@stevenbenson9976]

The British called their controlled area British Columbia and when Washington was added as a state it was going to be called Columbia but people thought it'd get confused with the district of Columbia so they renamed it Washington... Since that wouldn't be confused with Washington DC.......

[@HeadCannon19]

Honestly my main takeaway from this is why it's called British Columbia. I had never really thought about it, but it makes sense that if they called all of Oregon territory Columbia, then the northern half after the partition would the British half of Columbia, hence British Columbia

[@questerperipatetic4861]

But why Columbia? Is it because of that famous indigenous tribe that lived there, the Columbians?

[@lungfish]

@@questerperipatetic4861 Columbia is just an alternative name for America. It comes from Christopher Columbus. Same reason Washington, D.C. is the District of Columbia. "America" comes from Amerigo Vespucci.

[@questerperipatetic4861]

@@lungfish Thanks. I was being ironic. But glad to know there are a few folks around still who know about the mapmaker.

[@HughJass-313]

@@lungfish *WHOOOSH*

[@minutemansam1214]

@@questerperipatetic4861 It's named after the Columbia river.

[@unionofslavstanrepublics2317]

James Bissonette was a talented negotiator and made a very good offer to the UK.

[@lordgemini2376]

@The LIM Report Aaron the White was negotiating on Britains behalf while the Americans sent James Bissonette

[@WashingtonBall]

I honestly think Kelly money maker was the most persuasive.

[@PunkTiger]

But how does Kelly Moneymaker actually make money, and does it involve shaking something?

[@JPDuval-xy4yy]

I thought Kelly Moneymaker offered to purchase the land

[@jamesbissonette8002]

Doubtful

[@akula9713]

Logistically it would be a nightmare to supply in a conflict. Either a lengthy voyage around the cape, or a long overland trek.

[@minerat27]

If war did erupt over this, it wouldn't be decided by who actually controlled the territory, that would be a minor theatre at best, the real battle would be over whose economy would break first from the Atlantic blockade

[@jerrik-415]

They owned all of Canada at the time, so it wouldn't have had to go around the cape. Could have just done an 1812 all over again and burned down the capital again.

[@williammerkel1410]

​@@jerrik-415Canada was not exactly an easy place to cross at that time

[@MrCSeiberlin]

@@jerrik-415 The British sent an expedition to see if they could supply Columbia/west coast overland across Canada. They found it it was practically impossible. Any war on that side would have to be supplied via the Pacific. Which led to other considerations. There as a very real fear that if they got in a war with the US the French could join them (and the French were still publishing pamphlets like building essentially a raft bridge to England). But the kicker was, the US and French Pacific fleets combined outnumbered the Royal Navy in that theater, placing a very real threat on places they did care about...China and India. Once the Mexican American War was over, essentially the gig was up. They had to shit or get off the pot or face war (the Jacksonian Democrats blustered about it but it was a very real populist movement and a campaign slogan as well). So the British choice was to fight an war over a scrap of land they couldn't defend...that includes Canada (which in the east can be shut down by the US by land by seizing 2 choke points), but more importantly risk losing the far more valuable Caribbean holdings. The fur industry was really declining at the time, making Canada even less economically important to them (and it wasn't that key even before). With the US's now decades old sea fort construction project still going on and the Royal Navy also having budgetary issues, they didn't get nothing for giving up on their claim on Oregon... they resolved a major security concern and risk for war (the British would have to commit to a major land war to beat the US and due to the development of the US, an 1812 redux was impossible).

[@andrefasching1332]

​@@MrCSeiberlin all i can think of now is france franatically pontoning their way to great britain.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

I grew up in Washington State. In school I took a Washington State history class. You explained this situation a lot better than my Washington State history class ever did. It only took you three and a half minutes. Hahaha.

[@andrewklang809]

It was a dead pig what done it.

[@thanatos_kai42]

I had an Idaho history class in elementary school. The only thing we learned we about the was Lewis & Clark Expedition.

[@Transilvanian90]

@@thanatos_kai42 That's so sad... history education in US (and Canadian) public schools is tragically bad

[@darter9000]

Same… this and the Oversimplified Pig War put this all more clearly…

[@USStateOfSiberiaGHWBush1992]

That's what I didn't like about school. They teach so slowly, I can't remember the process of what happened. Same with books on one topic. But videos and animations, you don't read; you listen, which is a whole lot easier. And you watch as you listen, instead of looking at words and not what's happening. The words say what's happening, but I can't visualize or comprehend from reading. Of course books with pictures can't show in picture all of what the words say. And creating my own picture was too much for me to comprehend what the book's telling me. Not only what is being described, but the interactions and whatnot. I couldn't connect dots when I don't even have the picture of what's happening. If it's not visible, I can't use it to comprehend everything in the page. Especially when I didn't know the physics and how things work in the world. So I couldn't even comprehend or figure out what might possibly happen next, or what the people would want to happen or how they would respond or why or what is it they wanted. I needed to be taught from scratch, and yet- it's like I was reading about society, politics, history and culture. It's like expecting that readers can read and learn algebra, just based on their English (reading) skills. For me, every subject was like learning an entirely different language. I mean- I was able to read and it had the details, but I couldn't comprehend how the details even connected. I felt like I was taking a college course when I was in 5th grade.

[@Maverick750]

I love how there is a little easter egg mention of the Free City of Krakow, basically the closest thing to a Polish state after the Napoleonic Wars. It did cease to exist around the same time as the British cession of Oregon in the Oregon Treaty in 1846. So props to History Matters on this reference.

[@nicklpantis]

Where's the Easter egg?

[@Maverick750]

@@nicklpantis Britain's to-do list at 2:38

[@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm]

Yup, it was a nice touch. Should also add something along the "Sell more opium" lines, considering The 1st Opium War was during Peel's ministry 😊

[@alanpennie8013]

​@@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm The Krakow Uprising was quite a nasty business, with peasants massacring the rebellious Polish nobility. It did accelerate the abolition of serfdom in The Hapsburg Empire, so some good came if it.

[@fyn8172]

Not exactly the only Polish state after napoleonic wars, since Congress Poland existed till 1831 and Grand Duchy of Posen till 1848

[@jyrki21]

As a guy who worked for a while in British Columbia tourism, I appreciate the “home to not Vancouver” joke since we routinely had to explain this to many Canadians, let alone foreigners.

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

Indeed, I find this comedic!

[@SynthwaveDuck]

I still don't get it. It's literally in the post code. Vancouver, BC

[@casey6556]

@@SynthwaveDuckVancouver Island and the City of Vancouver are both named for George Vancouver (as is Vancouver, WA near Portland, OR) but the City of Vancouver is on the mainland while the largest city on Vancouver Island is Victoria, BC’s capital.

[@orangesilver8]

Also the older city of Vancouver is actually in Washington, on the Columbia river.

[@johnlienhart2717]

In class, the way the (elementary) teachers taught this event implied that there was much more formal agreement that prompted the Oregon trail, an outright competition to get settlers to the land to decide who got it. I couldn't find anything when I looked it up later, so between that and it being elementary school, I gathered that they changed a few details to tell a story more suitable for kids my age.

[@DKforever24]

I think the settler competition was mentioned in Oversimplified's Pig War video. Populating all lands west of the Mississippi River, then using those settlers as a casus belli to steal those lands from previous owners, was the Manifest Destiny strategy 101 for the US prior to the Civil War.

[@kv4648]

And the US history always claimed that they were better than the land grabbing imperialist Britain lmao

[@shorewall]

@@DKforever24 Boots on the ground beats claims anyday.

[@JobiWan144]

@@DKforever24 "Straight line?" "Straight line."

[@KaotikBOOO]

I means, it's school taught history it's rarely accurate. What is taught at school and the way it has to be done is decided by politicians, not historians

[@StockworthChanning]

There was a roughly 4-month long bloodless conflict called "The Pig War" over part of the archipelago that exists between Vancouver Island and the mainland, too. Enjoyed watching this here on the little bit of this Island that would have gone to the States if the land border was followed.

[@observer127]

I would love to have that turned into a video.... oh and the only casualty was a pig, on the British side, lol.

[@aaronstreitenberger6012]

The San Juan Islands to be specific

[@MaggieKeizai]

I love how they settled the pig war by flipping a pfennig. Couldn't even agree to use an american or british coin.

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

@@observer127 There is a video called The Pig War Oversimplified that does just that. I’ve been to American Camp and British Camp on San Juan Island where the two army garrisons were, well, camped in anticipation of a kinetic conflict. Very cool that such a pivotal conflict was on the cusp around here.

[@jwil4286]

@@jefffinkbonner9551same. Also good to see that Pickett was just as bad on defense as he was on offense (his choice of where to set up camp made him and his men sitting ducks)

[@AllyStrikesBack]

The Americans keep coming & they didn't stop coming, hopped in their wagons & they hit the ground running, didn't make sense to keep sharing Oregon when they outnumbered Brits by 6 to 1.

[@StrikerEStrikerovich]

No comments is unjustifiable

[@wanna-be-thinker2377]

Oversimplified. I see a man of culture, lol.

[@LegoThornProductions-js1sr]

Canada Dude uncool

[@danielhale1]

This video supplements what I learned from Oversimplified's Pig War video, and I enjoyed both! Despite the jokes and quick pace through the history, I learn more from these videos than most history classes ever even tried to teach. Genuine love of history makes a better teacher than having to prepare students to fill out a scantron with trivia answers. I really appreciate the attention to these small issues that normally either get glossed over, ignored, covered up, or taught inaccurately. You have a fantastic channel, sir!

[@thecursed01]

i can recommend the ridiculous history podcast to you then. often they make casts about unimportant stuff, but lots of good ones. i think they also had the pig war. my favorite stays the canadian margerine smuggle time :)

[@princesskyrie]

Loving the little touches on the state flags, especially "Dysentery" in the Oregon seal.

[@superbacedia0476]

I like Idaho's new motto

[@SYH653]

I missed the mottos the first time. :D

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

I didn't realize he altered them! Washington's flag had the portrait replaced by a blockhead version, Oregon's new motto is "Dysentery" (which happens to be the cause of death for many settlers going to there, unfortunately), and Idaho's new motto is _Fiat_ _potatus,_ which apparently means "let him be drunk"! I'm not sure why Idaho got that motto, but it's quite funny! Thanks for the comment!

[@cruzgomes5660]

​@@Hand-in-Shot_Productions I by the "potatus" part might be a play on how Idaho grows a lot of potatoes maybe?

[@markmarano913]

0:33 has to be the most brilliant interpretation of "Go West, Young Man" that anyone has ever seen. I don't know how you do it, but your visual gags just get better and better!

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

The Village People wrote a song called "Go West" in 1970something. It was not a hit, but the Pet Shop Boys did a cover in 1993 that was a massive hit.

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

Ghosts telling settlers to go west? I don't know who the ghosts are, but that's comedic!

[@cruzgomes5660]

​@@Hand-in-Shot_Productions it's the members of The Village People from the "YMCA" music video

[@bernadmanny]

I have been wondering this question for years. I think Britain could have gotten a somewhat better deal if they had put in 2% more effort.

[@Jin-Ro]

Super big Empire I imagine, more important things to worry about that what was (to the British back then) a small piece of land far far away. Now Rockall on the other hand....

[@seneca983]

2%?! That'd be quite a lot to ask.

[@spartanx9293]

Issue is not that many British/Canadian citizens lived they're its very hard to claim land that your people don't live in

[@darkbrightnorth]

@@spartanx9293the British were able to raise Canadian population via a number of policies before and there where proposal that some of the Columbia territory be given to Métis people (a mixed race French and native Canadian group) B UT these didn’t happen, had they have happened it’s likely that Canadians would have equaled or outnumbered the Americans for another decade

[@danz1182]

The UK military leaders were concerned about defending Canada if war with US broke out. Canada was 100 times as valuable to the Empire as Columbia and they couldn't realistically hold it. The British navy could keep the Americans from reinforcing Oregon, but was powerless to stop them from seizing Canada.

[@EpicgamerwinXD6669]

In fairness, the United States also gave up the northern part of Oregon, had they kept that up until today the lower 48 states would border Alaska (or get extremely close to bordering Alaska).

[@grondhero]

Essentially, what he showed at 3:18.

[@masonhandforth1369]

The debate on Oregon was less about the entirety of it but a river, UK wanted it to be along a river so they could continue making hats (I think it was from beavers or something), while the US wanted it to be a straight line because it wanted full control of the river.

[@josephrobi6806]

But I am glad because Canada got it British Columbia and the Pacific Ocean view. USA 🇺🇸 cannot have it al you know 😅

[@josephrobi6806]

But I am glad because Canada got it British Columbia and the Pacific Ocean view. USA 🇺🇸 cannot have it al you know 😅

[@kurtwinter4422]

Make BC America Again

[@SamAronow]

@0:09 The Russians also had a colony at Fort Ross in California all the way until 1842. Officially it was part of Russian America (Alaska), and under their flag Aleut whalers established seasonal settlements on the Channel Islands off Los Angeles (where their diseases wiped out the local Kizh islanders).

[@_blank-_]

Aleut whalers were diseased??

[@mikeg2306]

That’s why there’s a river in Northern California called the Russian River. It was actually Russian expansion in the late 1700’s that prompted the Spanish to build the missions.

[@tmorganriley]

Though by resolving their mutual quarrels, Britain ultimately got the Anglo-American alliance, which proved invaluable to them in the 20th century. So I think it worked out for them in the long run.

[@DomWeasel]

Double-edged sword. Valuable ally in wartime. Drove their economy into the ground in peacetime if they didn't toe the American line.

[@dw620]

Something something Suez... ;p~

[@Aragon1500]

@@DomWeasel Maybe you know don't fight two world wars and make us pay for them

[@Heike--]

You mean American banks investing in London got the American people dragged into two wars that were not their business and got hundreds of thousands of them killed.

[@DomWeasel]

@@Aragon1500 US joined the First World War specifically to protect their investments in Britain and France. Second World War might never have happened if American businessmen hadn't invested so much in Nazi industry.

[@mediumeffort3315]

As someone who was born and raised in Oregon this was fascinating, thank you.

[@MyFiddlePlayer]

This video is fundamentally wrong. What the UK got in return for giving up its claim to half of the Oregon territory was the US giving up its claim to the other half of the Oregon territory. The split was pretty close to even.

[@davidgjam7600]

​@@MyFiddlePlayeryeah but you could argue that 54'40 Or Fight was a bluff in the first place.

[@duncanmcallister7932]

your animations always crack me up!! its nice to learn so much while not falling asleep.

[@papenato]

These videos are so good on teaching history quickly ive learned so many things from these videos

[@arfyego0682]

I live in Grays Harbor, WA, and the history of this area has interested me since I moved here. Super cool area, thanks for the video

[@emmettmasterson8242]

This explains this better in 3 minutes than a washington state history class in 180+ hours

[@tylerclayton6081]

We didn’t learn much about it either in British Columbia

[@DXOS3]

What class is 180+ hours, most college classes are 36 hrs max

[@emmettmasterson8242]

@@DXOS3 middle school washington state history, Washington has 180 school days in a year, and the classes are around one hour

[@enderkool]

literally, i remember a few years ago one of the requirements for 'graduating' middle school was taking a washington state history course. never did they mention joint occupation. we did learn about the salmon run and louis and clark for the 20th time though :)

[@emmettmasterson8242]

@@enderkool our teacher decided to teach us almost nothing about the subject and spend half the year on medieval history. The only things I remember is Washington's first governor was tiny and the person who seattle was named after.

[@Hexakinase]

Although the border at the 49th parallel doesn't extend to Vancouver Island, it does go into the water a bit so there is a tiny chunk of the United States on a peninsula south of the city of Vancouver. It's called Point Roberts and it can only be reached by land from the US mainland by driving through Canada. If Google maps is up-to-date, there's not much there.

[@zdv-b3g]

Pt Roberts is quite rural and lightly populated compared to the highly developed Vancouver BC suburb Tsawwassen just over the border

[@luddite4change449]

Having lived in the region for much of the last 25 years, I've always wondered how things would have turned out had one country or another taken the whole area? There were still many in BC who wanted to throw their lot in with the US towards the end of the 19th Century as the railroads went into Washington State and Oregon and link the east and west US in 1869. Canada was not joined by rail until 1885.

[@idaho_girl]

I grew up near Seattle and I remember learning about how the Trans Canadian Highway and Railroad were created to try to keep BC happy as part of Canada since because of geography, it had a strong trading and cultural connection with the PNW in the US than Ottawa.

[@idaho_girl]

Look up the Pig War! 🙂

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

@@idaho_girl Exactly. Other than the lower BC mainland around the Fraser River valley and a few slim mountain valleys inland around Kamloops, BC is basically just impassable mountains. Logging and some mining, but not much else.

[@JustThatOneRandomGuy]

For one, you would’ve gotten better healthcare 🙂

[@ChasmChaos]

In 2023, Canada still isn't joined by rail (speaking as a passenger, not freight).

[@ShinchokuShogunate]

Thank you for going so deep into part of the history of my Home State Of Oregon! A lot of times I feel like we are usually an Overlooked State, But then theres videos like this that give us some spotlight that I apreciate every now and then. Love From Shinchoku, And Oregon! ❤💛💚🖤⛩🗾🏯

[@GabelHUN]

I think, perhaps you could make a video of the decline of piracy, seems like an interesting topic. I know the golden age of piracy lasted until the mid 18th century, but where did the pirates go? It seems Piracy ceased to exist in the west African-coast, the Atlantic, the Carribbieans and the South-China sea almost simultaneously. It's not like there weren't anything valuable to plunder.

[@wariodude128]

My guess? Privateering! Just ask Barbarossa from the PotC movies.

[@tomtomtrent]

@@wariodude128 well privateering also fed into piracy. During the War of Spanish Succession, many privateers were hired to plunder enemy ships. But after the war was over, the colonial powers weren’t as keen as attacking foreign ships during peacetime, so many privateers were left unemployed and just turned to regular piracy to keep up their lifestyle

[@rembrandt972ify]

The modern decline of piracy has been conclusively linked to global warming. 🤣

[@dw620]

The fashionable view nowadays is that Britain only suppressed piracy in order to expand the Empire. Because, you know, the locals would've preferred to continue being suppressed by lawless pirates... (nm) This applies even to mainland China, too, where Imperial tax revenue improved dramatically due to anti-piracy and anti-corruption efforts whereas most textbooks tend to focus only on negative effects from the Opium Wars and closely related matters.

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

The decline of piracy has caused global warming.

[@jonasvaananen]

Do a video on the Kingdom of Finland (1918) and why it failed and Finland became a republic

[@panttuckerenjoyer7625]

AlternateHistoryHub already kinda explained it

[@occam7382]

@@panttuckerenjoyer7625 Where did he do that?

[@echidnanatsuki882]

​@@panttuckerenjoyer7625in what video?

[@dwarow2508]

Because ww1?

[@andrewklang809]

The king was German. 1918 was not the...best time to be a German monarch.

[@mranimazing2190]

2:45 A pretty apt description of the British approach to the famine

[@eddie2913]

What??? A scenario between the British Empire and the US where they actually just shook on it instead of fighting and provoking one another? Amazing

[@dangerdan79]

Barely, look up the phrase "Fifty Four Forty or Fight!"

[@beausheffield1895]

It was a bluff. Polk had no intentions of fighting the British, at least that’s what my teacher taught me.

[@captainyossarian388]

Considering the clusterf*ck that the War of 1812 was for both sides, they wanted to avoid a sequel.

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

@@captainyossarian388 That would explain things!

[@grahamturner2640]

@@captainyossarian388how was it bad for the British?

[@Riastrad-hq6ds]

Loved the Go West joke. You have some of the best visual gags on KZbin.

[@AreaEightyNine]

The unofficial slogan for this channel should be “And if you didn’t know, now you know.”

[@privateeyety5735]

A good apt slogan

[@sgregg5257]

Great and pretty accurate for such a condensed video. I worked for a time at Ft. Vancouver National Historic site on the north side of the Columbia river just north of Portland in Vancouver WA. That fort was the HQ for the western operations of the Hudson Bay Company. Ft Vancouver was the hub of a trading network that encompassed all of the Oregon country, what is today northern California, and Hawaii. If you go to that fort there is a bastion in the northwest corner that mounted cannon. Those guns were trained, not on the river, but on the growing American settlement that would eventually become the city of Vancouver WA. The fort was moved from the southern side of the river near what is today Astoria Oregon, to it's present site in 1828 while the English attempted get the US to make the Columbia the border. English was not the most common language in the area. That was a trade jargon made up of Chinook, French, Spanish, English and a little Russian. In southeastern Oregon, there is a rugged aird valley called the Owyhee valley. It was named after the Hawaiian trappers that mapped and explored it.

[@MyFiddlePlayer]

While some of the video is accurate, the underlying premise is wrong. What the UK got in return for giving up its claim to half of the Oregon territory was the US giving up its claim to the other half of the Oregon territory. The split was pretty close to even. You can't claim that the UK gave up this territory "for free" unless you deliberately ignore the fact that the US also claimed all of this land.

[@idaho_girl]

Great video. Did you learn also about the Pig War that was the result of the boarder between the US and Canada that goes around the bottom of Vancouver Island not being well defined? The upshot was that the only casualty was the pig. P.S. And because of the boarder being on the 49th parallel, a little bit of the US, Point Roberts, is inaccessible except by boat or plane.

[@joshuaridgway3230]

Border. Homophones. Boarder is someone who stays overnight in a hotel. Border is a boundary between two distinct regions.

[@Dennis_Ryan_Lynch]

Nice to see more of the history here! Glad to be an American and an Oregonian!

[@jimgorycki4013]

The surveying of the 49th Parallel was not a perfect line. There are two parts of the US that are only accessible through Canada: One in Minnesota; the other in Washington State. It is interesting that populations, especially in the Vancouver region -- are close to the 49th. It's so that the US wouldn't attempt to claim it, even though the Spanish and the Russians lay claim too???

[@bluesteel8376]

The part in Minnesota is because the border is not a straight line. The part in Washington state is because the border there IS a straight line.

[@tz8785]

Even a perfect border along the 49th parallel leaves Point Roberts and Elm Point south of it. Those two weird spots are the result of using an arbitrary mathematical line as a border.

[@timgerk3262]

Think like it's the 19th century: the Fraser River delta turned out to be north of the 49th and the Columbia River valley was mostly desert anyway. As far as anyone in London knew.

[@sdrawkcabUK]

I visited Point Roberts, WA once expecting some thrilling cartographical curiosity… in reality it was a rather dull place with not much to see other than some boats and views over to the islands off Victoria I. The border guards looked at me like I was crazy 🤣🤣

[@fnaffoxy1987]

@@bluesteel8376 The line isn't straight due to a surveying error when trying to figure out the border back then. The lake looked differently than the maps they had made of it, so when they made the border along the parallel, they messed up a bit and had to correct, resulting in the northwest angle.

[@timmmahhhh]

I'm surprised you didn't mention a popular American slogan for gaining the entire territory: "Fifty-Four Forty or fight!" This refers to the latitude of the Northern extent of this territory. As you mentioned though the compromise was at the 49th parallel. Well Vancouver Island was successfully thought through unfortunately Point Roberts was not, a peninsula mostly Canada with the tip being the US thanks to this unyielding of the parallel demarcation.

[@lesyankee6129]

Yeah! 54-40 or fight! We want it all! (but will settle for half...)

[@nick21614]

@@lesyankee6129 It was a decent deal since we were dealing with Mexico at the time but the US could have taken all the territory if it wanted.

[@theburningtankman9411]

@@nick21614 not really most people forget that the US Army of the time was barely a standing professional militia with a uniform and called an Army, they only dominated the Mexicans due to the Mexicans having an even poorer army in the field and a useless chain of command a problem the US actually didn't have with mostly competent commanders. it wouldn't be a repeat of 1812 as the British weren't fighting a massive land war in Europe for another decade and the royal navy would've sunk the small American coastal fleet, landed royal marines and Infantry in Washington and forced the US to surrender of face the second sacking of Washington in less then 40 years. not to mention its the 1840/50s the US army couldn't redeploy quickly so if they moved their armies southwest to fight the Mexicans the British would face only garrisons and token defence forces. the Americans wouldn't have been annexed that wasn't feasible but it is likely they would lose most of the upper Midwest Oregon and bits of Maine and New England if the defeat was total (moral of the story most people forget that the US wasn't a first rate power until the Spanish-American War (1898) and their conflict with Mexico was seen as two regional powers fighting over land)

[@Elitist20]

I hadn't realised British Columbia was named after the Columbia River, which I'd thought was just in Washington and Oregon - I've just looked at a map and its source is actually in BC!

[@nick21614]

@@theburningtankman9411 The Mexicans had a larger Army fighting on their home terroritory. The USA beat them with their supply lines going over 1000 miles. The quality of the US soldier was way higher AND the United States had very competent, professional officers. Just because the country didn't have a large standing Army doesn't mean they wouldn't win. The US Army was tiny in 1860 as well and in under a year fielded an Army with over 120,000 men, something the British could never match over the Atlantic ocean. Not only would the US Army be vastly superior in numbers, the US Army, as shown through history, had great logistics and great commanders. Yes, the US couldn't beat the UK in 1815, but by about the late 1830s they could.

[@CapitalizedJuristiction]

"Fine, you want a straight line? There, there's your straight line..." - Oversimplified

[@Pretender-Jarod]

You even feature the Point Roberts, WA dilemma on your maps. Well done!

[@ThatScottishAtlantic57]

I love how Napoleon has become the new James Bissonette of these videos XD

[@jokuvaan5175]

He is the Walpole of this channel

[@captaincanuck6738]

It's true, if you live in the area you'll notice that Washington State has an abundance of...well everything! Vancouver and BC are mostly small valleys and mountains with less economic potential and limited spaces for development. Americans definitely got a great deal, and it wouldn't be the last! I'm looking at you Alaska Panhandle!

[@CountScarlioni]

In a funny way, the US got Alaska because of the British too. After the Crimean War where Russia got steamrolled by France and Britain, Russia realised it was functionally impossible to protect Russian America if another anticipated conflict broke out involving the Royal Navy. Selling off undefendable land to an interested buyer seemed like a good deal to them at the time. And they were probably right, because they would have lost it anyway, either to the Japanese in 1905, or to the Allied assisted White Army after the revolution in the 1920s.

[@MaggieKeizai]

Quit catching our salmon

[@mrcaboosevg6089]

That was good for America but it didn't really have any benefit for Britain. Food wouldn't last the journey to Britain and as a colony it just didn't offer much except access which it had anyway

[@StephenLatimerWoody]

Had BC included the more economically viable areas south into Puget Sound, it is likely BC would have opted to be part of the US. Nanaimo and Victoria newspaper editorials promoted ceding to US while New Westminister on the mainland argued to become part of Canada during the 1830s/40s.

[@victortisme]

James bissonette made an offer they couldn't refuse.

[@pennjazz]

*cue The Godfather music*

[@jamesbissonette8002]

Nah

[@writerconsidered]

@@jamesbissonette8002 Sorry but all treaties require James Bissonette jokes.

[@gimicio.talloni]

Great information! Thank you! I loved Oversimplified videos on a similar subject.

[@NateTheOhioan]

“That would be a completely reasonable compromise that benefits both parties, but THERE’S NO WAY I’D EVER AGREE TO IT!”

[@jasonholt1776]

I respect Polk. Made promises, fulfilled them in one term, and didn't run for re-election.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

(Mexican noises)

[@TransformersBoss]

They should name a fictional Middle School after him

[@spk1121]

I know, right? I think he's severely underrated as a president.

[@obitwokenobi9808]

Pity he is hardly remembered.

[@madladofabrit2439]

Got elected. Did job. Refuses to elaborate further

[@TravisBroski]

What a reasonable and happy agreement. I sure hope the document labeled things correctly and there weren’t a pair of islands left out that can disputed over and cause a crisis between them.

[@TeutonicEmperor1198]

Exactly!! No wars, no international incidents, no drama at all. It's a good thing that no living thing lost its life. Right? 🐷🐷🐷🐷🐷

[@jacksonmacd]

The pig in the pig war? Didn't it loose it's life?

[@faganquin6483]

i recently discovered that one branch of my family tree arrived in WA in 1880. after fighting in the civil war they just keep moving further and further west after "settling" IL. one couple went to Oregon first.

[@frostnova8300]

Nice, I’m from Oregon myself and have always wondered this.

[@Kegcrusher04]

Lived here my whole life and some how this was never brought up in school.

[@jamiefenner9443]

Great and fun video. Could we have one on the significance of the British Corn Laws? (which governed wheat, not maize)

[@JP_TaVeryMuch]

You got a couple of hours spare?

[@Aleric_I]

0:43 "straight line? "straight line."

[@StageRight123]

Nice little touch with Alaska at the end there.

[@ArthurCSchaperMR]

Please do videos on the following subjects: 1. Why did the peoples revolutions of 1848 not work or fail in the German States and in Spain? 2. Why do people drive on different sides of the road in different countries?

[@mattfatt67]

Nice to see V.I. get an honourable mention on your channel!

[@masterchinese28]

As a resident of Idaho, I want to thank President Polk and his brilliant brinkmanship (negotiation) with Britain.

[@baselhills865]

Polks one of the best Presidents

[@masterchinese28]

@@baselhills865 He was indeed

[@mrcaboosevg6089]

It's nice watching a channel answering questions you never knew you were asking

[@faenethlorhalien]

They also gave away Aragorn: now he's not British, but he's in all of our hearts.

[@BetterDeadthenRed1991]

I don't know why but your videos just seem much smoother today

[@spartanx9293]

1:50 who would have known actually sending people to settle the land is more effective than just trying to ruin the land

[@firstcynic92]

I'm a little surprised you didn't make a reference to the Oregon Trail game. I first played it on a dumb terminal connected to an IBM mainframe over a 400bps modem. "Type 'BANG' to shoot" and "You have died of dysentery" were typical lines from this text only program.

[@john-ic5pz]

wow.... flashback to 7th grade general science room with the TSR80 (?) and green phosphor monitor. Haven't thought of THAT in a while 😂

[@rowlganartamas2835]

He snuck "dysentery" onto the oregon state flag so the reference was there, just nicely subtle!

[@firstcynic92]

​@@rowlganartamas2835 Thanks! I missed that.

[@idaho_girl]

I recall from my PNW history class (I grew up near Seattle) how the hawks in the US would shout "54 40 or fight" where the northern border of the Oregon Territory was 54 degrees, 40 minutes north latitude.

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

I recall hearing the same thing, coming from San Diego, California! I can verify that that catchy, yet unsuccessful slogan was used!

[@mcj88]

I only know of the Oregon boundary dispute because one of future president Polk's campaign slogans, "Fifty-Four Forty Or Fight!", referring to parallel 54°40′N, the extreme American territory claim which rubbed up against Russian Alaska, would get referenced by the name of one of my favourite music groups growing up, Vancouver-area alt-rock/grunge group *54-40.* (Anyone outside of Canada probably only knows them indirectly; their song "I Go Blind" was a minor mid-90s hit for Hootie & The Blowfish.)

[@observer127]

As I am born, raised and live in Portland my whole life, so far, I thank you for doing this video. I have ancestry going back to the Hudson Bay Company's French Canadien fur trappers and one of Canada's First Nations.

[@Wilderness-Will]

This channel is almost uncanny in its ability to answer questions I've asked myself in passing when looking at a map or reading a book, but never actually exerting effort to learn the answer to.

[@Ozzy08018]

I love that this channel has taught me more history than 2 years of World History in High School. The Aermica central outlook on history sucks because it means I always have to deep dive for anything not praising the government.

[@francoislechanceux5818]

Yet another idiot who wants to be taught everything in school. Books don't exist for decoration. Blame your limited intellect not the school or the teachers.

[@tromedlovdrolmai]

And then of course, there was the whole "Pig War" event of the 1850s, because the treaty was vague about some tiny islands. Thanks Oversimplified

[@hugepumpkin8094]

Interesting detail on the Oregon flag at 0:01

[@justhere4637]

DYSENTRY

[@AnonymouseVR]

@@justhere4637dySENTRY. Diarrhoea sentry gun

[@davidcollinsjr4288]

The prequel to The Oregon Trail that had been hinted to me but never fully known!

[@USStateOfSiberiaGHWBush1992]

3:14 [sign:] This is useless. Ironically, that screenshot resembles the U.S. saying Alaska is useless, at the time of the Alaska Purchase. lol But I totally recognize the real meaning of the screenshot. Great teaching; great narration, great animation. Thank you!

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

This is a reference to a previous video? I appreciate that Easter egg, too! Thanks for mentioning it!

[@MB-sd9oz]

Fundamentally, two rival British Empires - one land started by independent Brits - coming up against each other and negotiating rather than face the prospect of yet another American invasion of Canada. The British hoped also that the Americans would help them in their fight against world slavery by taking part in the suppression of the Transatlantic slave trade. That's what the British hoped they would get out of ceding some of the Oregon territory, but they were disappointed. See Webster-Ashburton Agreement in 1842, and the later more defined Lyons- Seward Treaty of 1862.

[@maxis2k]

This is a good explanation of the macro, international situation. But there's a little more. Within the Oregon territory itself, they had a referendum where the representatives from various groups voted between joining the US, remaining a joint territory or forming an independent nation. Including a large group of French Canadians. Joining the US won by only a few votes. Of course this vote probably wouldn't have mattered in the long run. The USA would have expanded west and absorbed them regardless. The place where they took this vote is at Champoeg state park. A place hardly anyone knows about. Hence why it's often overlooked. But it's funny because if you look at a list of the names of people who voted, it's pretty much a list of the town and street names all over the Willamette Valley.

[@twiface69]

I only know about it because I happened to grow up close enough to Champoeg for a school field trip.

[@edithpiaf7846]

"Lyman, if you spare my life, I'll grant you three wishes."

[@failsrus96]

0:34 love that Village People reference

[@satanwithinternet2753]

Damn bro call after a long and hard day I was just winding down in my room smoking some weed and watching KZbin and suddenly I see my favourite KZbinr has just put out anotherbanger video, man this made my night

[@scoutmehgaming17]

British::You want your straight line." *draws line* British:"There thats your straight line." America:YEEEEEEEEEE AHHH

[@IGuessIDoThings]

Man this video was actually a lot better then Oversimplified’s video explaining this

[@CrazeTheZilla]

Being from Oregon, I always love seeing the history of my state, and how turbulent it was. You just wouldn't think a place as quiet as here was once a tension point between us and our parent country. Wacky

[@lazynow1]

Oregon is in such a sad state of affairs...now home to Liberals idiots and the zombie homeless druggies....

[@youngchell45]

The Village People reference in the Manifest Destiny bit has me dying! Go west “Young Man”😂😂

[@rowan7130]

As a native Irish speaker I really appreciate seeing the Irish language used in 2:45

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

I don't speak Irish, but I think this is a nice Easter egg! Also, Google Translate tells me "Sé do Bheatha, a Mhuíre" means "It's your Life, Mary", or more approximately, "Hail, Mary". Is that correct?

[@paul0wen65]

"At least 6" was too funny, along with the dancing man from other clips cavorting below manifest destiny.Quite informative as well.

[@limabean06]

As someone from Vancouver Island, I can confirm that we are not Vancouver.

[@ProfCoyote]

Thank you for getting the pronunciation of Oregon correct.

[@sealboi9666]

3:21 james bisonette timestamp

[@chadgriffiths6403]

This week History Matters visits my part of the world. Thanks!

[@skoomaddict5273]

I love the mention of "Wishing the Free City of Kraków well"

[@mojewjewjew4420]

what is the context about it?

[@WILLIAN_1424]

@@mojewjewjew4420 it was annexed in 1846

[@mojewjewjew4420]

@@WILLIAN_1424 by who?

[@WILLIAN_1424]

@@mojewjewjew4420 by the Austrian Empire, after a polish rebellion.

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

I like it too! Indeed, they were _not_ well!

[@luketornblad4605]

My Dad and I listened to a book about Astoria, Oregon and how John Jacob Astor, fearing the British would attack the fur trading post, sold it to The Hudson Bay Company in 1812. I went to the Maritime Museum on the bank of the Columbia where there's a piece of copper plated hull from a British ship, the HMS Raccoon. Captain William Black exclaimed in 1813, "Is this the fort of which I have heard so much about? Damn me, but I'd batter it down in two hours with a four pounder."

[@PopeLando]

Oh, the tragic loss! By the drawing of a straight line we British forever lost Point Roberts to America.

[@Tony-so1zl]

USA USA USA 🇺🇸

[@ryandanngetich2524]

@@Tony-so1zl Its sarcasm,, take a joke

[@Me.Winter]

Man I love this channel, it's very informative.

[@JA432123]

I just rewatched Oversimplifieds coverage of this incident with the Pig War thats funny

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

I didn't really like that video.

[@Hand-in-Shot_Productions]

As an American, I suspected that the cession of Oregon to us might have, somehow, had something to do with the Mexican-American War. Now, I know exactly why the Oregon Country/Columbia Territory was divided between the United Kingdom (now Canada) and the United States: the US sent so many Americans there, and London was more concerned with repealing tariffs than starting a war with the US. Thanks for the video!

[@tonythetanuki]

I like that he put in effort for Washington's flag but non on Idaho.

[@bittertwig]

Fiat Potatus

[@Aggie1295]

I think it's fair to say that James K. Polk was probably one of the most successful Presidents in US history. What's kind of amazing is that he did everything in one term.

[@thebepsusdog9227]

To think that if Brittain had gone the way of threatening to aid Mexico could've tipped some things for both Mexico & the U.K is....... Interesting to think about.

[@jasonjimerson7046]

In short... "Straight line?" "Straight line." Thank you, Oversimplified and the Pig War video.

[@Jacob07111]

Could you please explain why the Federal Republic Of Central America (FRCA) dissolved? Counting that nowdays the people in the former territory of the federation seem pretty positive with the idea of unification, and the president of El Salvador has shown interest in the topic, why didn't the federation succeded?

[@slayerdearly]

Thank you Britain for giving us Seattle a city I’d kill to move to and live in

[@dncarac]

And they'd return the favor and kill you.

[@toastyanon8902]

I’ve never noticed Graham Island on maps before. Feels like a Mandela Effect moment in my life, so thanks for that

[@Eddie42023]

0:30 your gift for irony amazes me. I'm surprised you didn't directly mention the slogan 54-40 or fight, but only implied it.

[@ciotescienceinnovators8025]

As a idahoan, I am proud to be a american. Not proud that we gave land to wyoming and montana though.

[@morrismonet3554]

Didn't learn any of this playing the Oregon Trail game with my kids. LOL