Terminator: Dark Fate reviewed by Mark Kermode

Mark Kermode reviews Terminator: Dark Fate. Sarah Connor continues her mission to protect the world from Terminators, teaming up with a human/cyborg hybrid to protect a young woman.
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[@dansanfrisco]

We need a Terminator sent back to stop Hollywood from making more Terminator movies.

[@buffgarfield3231]

This would make a good movie

[@sostekai]

or you could just watch the ones you enjoyed and not watch anymore problem solved? since other people still the new movies

[@SRC267]

@@sostekai it would be better to erase anything made after T2 from history. Just remove every reference on the internet and in real life, like physical stuff.

[@jamiebrooks3864]

Long as its sequel is stopping the following predators

[@kirilcherry7612]

I'd pay to watch that- where character goes back in time and has a groundhog day explaining and stopping people from directing the remakes but fails consistently until the end- Hollywood - pay me now as this would definitely sell tickets.

[@holdyourcolour1987]

"I wish it was a better film than what it is" should be on the poster.

[@shan4680]

They could make a fortune leasing that quote out to quite a lot of film posters to be honest.

[@MitzyAndSadie]

Saddens me immensely to say he nailed it. Perfect review.

[@sepptrutsch]

It was pretty good. If you dont expect a masterpiece you will enjoy the movie.

[@emirlsanchos6302]

Bobson Dugnutt or "The best Terminator movie since T2. But that ain't saying much."

[@killbot_factory]

that also could be said for pretty much any movie ever made.

[@andrewmoonbeam321]

"He suddenly realised he was in a film directed by McG, and couldn't face the awful reality of it."

[@frankwest8149]

I like terminator salvation and rise of the machines (hate genesis) gave hope for a decent addition to the franchise, but no another craptasic movie

[@Dohsoda]

@@frankwest8149 Its faint praise but I preferd the 3rd and 4th films in comparison to the 5th and 6th. However, none of them really hit the heights of the first two movies.

[@Horrormaster13]

The Terminator Saga ended with Terminator 2: Judgement Day....accept it.

[@shan4680]

The TV series did a lot of interesting things, the comics had a lot of excellent follow ups like Cybernetic Dawn/Nuclear Twilight and Terminator: Salvation had a shockingly good comic sequel called The Last Battle that tied together all of the movies that had been released up to then. So, actually they did a lot of good things post T2 even if they weren't films.

[@thecarrotmonster8827]

They could make a movie just set in the future and keep the time travelling stuff to the bare minimum, and make it good enough so that it doesn't need an 80 year Arnie sell at the box office. The T800's cool and scary enough on its own

[@nandotemplo]

The third movie is actually quite good, especially the ending with the birth of Skynet.

I was very happy with the first one. It stand on its own. I was very happy with the first matrix and the first star wars and the first indiana jones. I have accepted that this "franchises" suck and good films don't need a follow up.

[@Strugen.]

Mandatory but I liked T3 or Salvation or the TV series comments. Sorry but OP is 100% correct

[@IamFrozenUnderpants]

Linda Hamilton saying "I'll be back" in the trailer was enough for me not to watch. Once again, not an original thought in the writer's head.

[@currybumjenkins5428]

Imagine if every Alien sequel after the second one had to have some hackneyed reuse of "Game Over Man! Game Over!". That series could do with dying too, but it always had a level of dignity that for some reason was never afforded to the Terminator sequels.

[@MrFahrenheit2k]

I say, it's not an inherently bad idea to make her say "I'll be back". But this line should be really, really earned and put in a clever contex. But judging by the trailer and the review, it was just played for a quick gag. 'Member Arnold said I'll be back? I 'member.

[@Monkeymosh]

GiRayne well of course it is a cash in, but no more so than Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill returning for Star Wars. Linda Hamilton is genuinely great in this film, just as tough as she was in T2, but if you aren’t a fan, that won’t mean much.

[@killbot_factory]

that logic could be extended to every movie made nowadays. when was the last time you saw a movie, or even a trailer for that matter, that didn't contain some sort of film cliche?

[@rosstee]

John Norris Yeah I haven’t seen this but I liked Linda Hamilton’s delivery of that little speech in the clip they included here. Had some actual gravity, especially with the memory of her great performances in the first two films. I hated everything about Genisys so at least this seems to be an improvement on that (not difficult).

[@jamstonjulian6947]

"Wow" to "Why". Mark succinctly sums up the modern movie landscape.

[@theflyingninja1]

"Why?" and "how?" are my main thoughts about this films plot.

[@jdadams5633]

He's completely wrong about it not damaging the mythology of the first two films. It DESTROYS that mythology. It p!sses all over it, with the treatment of the John Connor character. James Cameron becomes example no. 119 of a creator who understands jacksh!t about his own creation.

[@aaronbarber6238]

Amen JD Adams

[@OldMiley]

So do you understand John Connor more than the guy that created him? This smacks of the guy arguing with JK Rowling over Snape's characterisation. They came up with them, therefore they can be whatever they want them to be. Just because something doesn't fit in with your own head canon it doesn't mean it is wrong.

[@USMCasper]

Mike Welsby No it’s wrong. Completely crapped on fans and John for an agenda. Wokeness.

[@youreviltwinLP]

What Dark Fate does is perfectly consistent with the original mythology. Together, Sarah and John changed the future by destroying Cyberdyne and preventing the creation of Skynet. They prevented the future war that John was supposed to be a great military leader in. Instead of John being the man that beats the machines in 2029, he became the teenager that beat the machines in 1998, saving the lives of billion people. That's very much in keeping with T2's message "There is no fate but what we make for ourselves". John was destined to be a hero, but he defied fate and destinty and created an even better future, he became an even bigger hero. John and Sarah's victory in T2 is a much bigger victory than the original T1 victory of beating Skynet in 2029. However, it then turns out that preventing one bunch of idiots at cyberdyne doesn't then eliminate the possibility that a different group of idiots have the same idea 30 years later. So eventually a completely different AI called Legion will be built, that will turn against humanity in a different way. This causes a completely different future war with different weapons and technologies and strategies. Legion doesn't launch nukes like Skynet did, instead it shuts down humanity's technology, we lose the internet and planes fall out the sky. In this new scenario, it is humanity who launches the first nukes, in an attempt to eliminate this rogue AI with EMP blasts. Everything that John and Sarah thought they knew about the future no longer holds true, this is a different apocalypse. Grace and the Rev-9 come from this new future war. Even if John Connor were still alive in 2042, it would make no sense him to still be destined to be the saviour of humanity. He'd be an old man. It makes sense that instead humanity gets a new saviour, Dani, who has been targeted for termination by the new AI Legion. After John and Sarah's victory in T2, it makes sense that John is no longer the focus. But, Sarah Connor's experience fighting terminators and training John makes her a useful secret weapon. Without her help, the new terminators would succeed in wiping out Dani; with her help, Dani can become an even better saviour than she was already destined to be. Perhaps together Sarah and Dani can change the future once again, just like they did in T2. Of course it would have been great to have a movie that had both adult John and Sarah in it. But Edward Furlong's drugs history is so severe that no company will give him actor's insurance. No movie company is going to take a chance making a blockbuster starring a guy who has a 50/50 chance of dropping out the film due to a drugs crisis, and where they can't even get some kind of insurance to cover that eventuality. So they had to write John out of it and have Sarah going alone. (The reverse situation of T3, which killed off Sarah Connor and just had John.) But even if adult John Connor was in the film (perhaps by them casting someone else), it would make sense for him to no longer be the saviour of humanity, and instead pass the torch to the new saviour. He already saved us in T2, he doesn't have to keep being the messiah over and over again.

[@USMCasper]

​@@youreviltwinLPLol. You really had to reach to make this work. Truth is they pushed out a woke agenda flick and it's terrible no matter how you try to justify the decisions. Arny had no connection with Legion yet knew their coordinates so Sarah could kill them all by herself. What took entire movies to do she did on her own? Right.......

[@jasonhill9853]

It's almost as if Cameron had been given a big wodge of cash to say nice things, isn't it? 🤔

[@mar10ssj1]

Those Avatar movies aren't going to fund themselves.

[@abloshow91]

These avatar films better be fire for all this bullshiting money he's getting

[@vikingfortiesfaeroes]

Like Bill Murray with Wokebusters

[@TheGentlemensMotorRacingTeam]

T2 is what made me love the cinema - unfortunately I felt this was a waste of a cinema ticket.

[@JohnnyZenith]

This film doesn't exist.

[@sostekai]

@@JohnnyZenith Strange if a film doesn't exist then why go on about it? How do you know about something that doesn't exist? I enjoyed the movie so did others so we must have spent money on something that doesn't exist?

[@skaro85]

Completely

[@Jimboola]

A Terminator is sent back to knock off a future resistance leader BUT a different terminator/soldier has been sent back to stop them. Sounds kinda familiar... 🤔

[@BoilingKoolaid]

Yeah...sounds like a Terminator movie...

[@sostekai]

Aww boohoo did it upset you a movie being similar to others in the same series?.

[@chrisf1600]

Terminator: Dead Horse

[@mar10ssj1]

The best Terminator movie since Terminator 2: Judgement Day

[@plumduffy334]

@@mar10ssj1 which isn't saying much at all

[@morten1]

James Cameron: Should stick to his smurf movies

[@mrhed0nist]

As soon as a movie becomes part of a franchise its all about the money. You see it time and time again. These aren't movies, they're nostalgia kidnappers.

[@roblinnbailey2359]

Tam Crude “nostalgia kidnappers” love that and very relevant to today’s cinema

[@geekliberty]

What does that make Blade Runner 2049?

[@TheArtkaw]

Crybabies.

[@akort7276]

Christian Bale flipped out because he realized he was in a movie directed by Mc G? It all makes sense now!

[@skyfryer1223]

pump ya brakes. Salvation was an underrated gem and the only Terminator sequel to approve of outside of the first 2.

[@skyfryer1223]

@@travisspazz1624 who hurt you? lol

[@aldovk6681]

@@travisspazz1624 genesis is the worst imo, the real problem with salvation is that it dropped that futuristic aesthetics from the 80's in favor of "realism"

[@Ohlukei]

@@aldovk6681 keep in mind that these "futuristic aesthetics from the 80's" only appeared in Sarah Connors dreams (well, nightmares) in both T1 and T2!

[@projectnerdvana2820]

@@aldovk6681 yes true!! They should of kept it shiney and chrome with a black blue sky!!

[@georgesalgado8783]

I wish I lived in a world where James Cameron had directed the third movie and it would have been called: The Terminator (1984) Terminator 2 Judgment day (1991) Terminator: Future War (2019) Oh what could've been. :(

[@skaro85]

Yes indeed

[@maciejkowalski2759]

I think that the future war movie wasn't really necessary. T2 wrapped up the story with Judgment Day being stopped. Therefore the future war movie would depict events that were already prevented. Besides, all we needed to know about the war was already told and shown in T1 and T2. We know the outcome, Skynet was defeated. So they send Terminators back in time to kill unborn and young John Connor, but that, as we know, didn't work. There really is nowhere to go from this.

[@georgesalgado8783]

@@maciejkowalski2759 indeed that's very true but since they have tried to milk the brand with bad sequels, I at least hoped a proper future war movie had been done since they tried and failed with Salvation. The Universal Studios ride T2 battle across time was a great teaser that could've been a solid 2 hour movie I think.

[@georgesalgado8783]

@@AsadKhan-lm6yr Salvation had the best concept going forward showing John in the future but the execution was not done well. They didn't have him leading the resistance and having Sam Worthington be the co-lead certainly didn't help. I get they were going for a trilogy and maybe they would've improved but we'll never know. Salvation wasn't all bad but it needed a better director too.

[@izumolee6714]

I believe ever since he lost the rights to the franchise way back when he lost interest in it. Now Avatar is his 'new' baby taking up all him time and passion. If he was still the rights holder after T2 we could've seen much better films but it is what it is.

[@SababaGuitar]

Agreed on Alien and Terminator franchises died after Aliens and T2. Predator franchise died after the first Predator film.

[@killbot_factory]

I actually think Predator 2 fits into Mark's whole statement about sequels which expand the canvas. except as opposed to Alien and Terminator sequels, Predator 2 isn't nearly the equal of its original. Still, it isn't bad, in fact its quite a fun movie on its own.

[@dannywray2254]

Am I the only person that enjoyed Alien 3?

[@Omegaspeedmaster69]

"I'll be back"....again.....and again....

[@SleepingGiant45]

... and again... and again... and again

[@maximus_max]

2050 yeah I’m back again

[@SkylineTechnology]

Terminator 1 - splatters brains on curtains Terminator Dark Fate - sells curtains

[@mikeadams7904]

And changes nappies with great efficiency. Ha

[@ps5stuffguy]

@@mikeadams7904 This new Terminator is violent

[@spoony01428]

Really like how he ties his analysis in with alien on multiple levels

[@RustCohle072]

Ahhh, wire.

[@TimeBomb014X]

And ironically enough James directed both.

[@TheHypersonic55]

It was the first thing thst came to my mind after seeing this film and discussing it with my work colleague recently

[@thisguydan]

The John Connor choice seemed like a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What was the point? How did that lead to a better story? It ended up just being the same thing we've already seen, they just changed the names. Net negative and a waste of another installment to the franchise.

[@mikeadams7904]

Shocking decision. Hated it

[@helenline1790]

@@alfredwinterbottom1588 because there was no point. Why change it?

[@rorrt]

I take your point, but when I watched it and thought about the implications for this decision. On this timeline. I thought it was a pretty good idea. It means T3, Salvation and Genysis don't need to happen. THAT SAID! Dark Fate, isn't that good! It's in my opinion about the same as T3 in terms of quality. And we don't talk about the other two.

[@thisguydan]

@@rorrt I kinda like that Salvation at least tried something new, but I know what you mean. Watchable, 2 hours of action, but nothing as compelling as the first two.

[@johng1634]

They did it because woke Hollywood can't have a white male saviour. Get woke go broke

[@starwarsroo2448]

Rise Of The Machines, even the creators knew they weren't topping T2, it's just an alright 00's movie.

[@tardiscrew6766]

The film killed itself within the first few moments It's a disgusting way to treat John Connor

[@AnimationRevolution]

I think if it actually served a purpose, it would have been fine, but it was essentially just used as a complete retcon for the sole reason of "rebooting" with a new cast-- in the same way Han and Luke were jettisoned from the Star Wars franchise. It was disrespectful to the fans because the creators of the film want us to forget the older, better, movies and move on to their new trash.

[@DiabolicalApostle]

@@AnimationRevolution At least with Han it made sense. Doing it to Luke and especially in that fashion was unforgivable.

[@Ethros64]

Yeah I understand Eddie Furlong couldn’t really be in it, but that opening kinda turned me against the film from then on

[@avenginglettuce]

Killing John from the off grabbed my attention. The problem with these films is nobody knows what they want from them anymore. This played like a greatest hits romp and I really enjoyed it. Honestly, I'm more fatigued with the persistently unhappy fans and commentators than I am the franchise. I had a blast with this and I hope fans of the previous films give it a crack.

[@dennett316]

@@AnimationRevolution The purpose was drawing that line in the sand and ending the Skynet timeline once and for all. There's no more striking symbol of that than killing John. No, it's not disrespectful, they don't want you to forget. If anything it was a greatest hits of the first two films, littered with references and callbacks. Genisys was disrespectful due to poor quality throughout.

[@UsmanKhan-gg6fi]

Just like many of us Mark is a Terminator fan who's just disappointed....says a lot really

[@gandalfm.student4756]

Subzee or kubzee?

[@ih8mcfly]

Terminator : oww! My back!

[@TheChugg11]

ih8mcfly Rheumatism: this time it’s terminal!

[@fuzzyfennec7493]

Underrated comment 🤣

[@kenh2o]

The killing of John makes the original story T1 & T2 meaningless. Terminator story should have stopped in T2 as it already has a satisfying and complete closing of a well written story. Everything else after T2 is meaningless and become repetitive of the original story. and they destroy people's good memory of the original story.

[@chasehedges6775]

I kind of lost faith after Genysis and so far, nothing has done to get anyone, non-fans Die-hard terminator fans, terminator fans, or regular movie goers interested. The only enticing me is the acting from the cast. Everything else: . . - Edit: I'll gladly watch T3 than genysis or this.

[@Cinephileofmany]

Chase Hedges I think for me it’s less than that. My reaction that Linda Hamilton and Eddie Furlong had been cast still left me empty, because it doesn’t really matter at this point.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@Cinephileofmany This franchise, along with JP, are going the way of the dodo bird: extinction. Speaking of Jurrasic World 2, did you like the girl's acting?

[@kebsis]

They really ought to try something new, not just the same old plot again. The only Terminator movie that has so far was Salvation, which was obviously flawed but at least it tried. I agree with another KZbin review I saw that mentioned that they could have had an interesting movie if the plot followed the old Terminator living as a human.

[@Onmysheet]

T3 should've been the final movie, about John Connor in the resistance and Kyle Reese going back in time to 1984 to save Sarah. Not all that garbage we got in Salvation.

[@jwuk11345]

I actually quite liked Genysis, certainly it's better than T3 or the godawful Salvation

[@Novasky2007]

I think the guy who paid to go see a screening of T2 to get a free showing of Dark fate said it best - I was sat there thinking about T2 the whole time.

[@Tomanista]

Young Sarah Connor, John Connor and Arnold looked amazing. That's all the positive I have.

[@alexsohobc4661]

100% Opening scene showing the hospital clip from T2 had me buzzing and CGI de-aging scene started promising then.... Dark Fate begins. Not a Terminator movie. Dark Fate is a spin off with Sarah Connor and T-800 cameos.

[@TheJamie6666]

The only good thing about this film is the beginning.

[@damofx]

That’s mostly unused footage from T2 re cut to make up a sequence. Any parts that needed to be specifically tailored to the new story had body doubles almost always filmed from behind. So, unfortunately the best thing about the best post T2 sequel is the T2 cutting room floor

[@alphabetaxenonzzzcat]

I actually quite liked Terminator 3, thought the ending sort of tied everything together. I accept that it wasn’t quite up to the standard of the previous two films. I must say that the other films have sort of left me cold, although Gensys at least tried.

[@JohnnyZenith]

There is no T3.

[@Strugen.]

They are all pointless after T2, story was told

[@KingNothing100]

T3 needed to happen, by virtue of there being Terminators coming back from the future to effect the past/present in T1/T2, means the story was never finished at the end of T2, as Arnie put it in T3 "Judgement Day is inevitable". Killing the terminators and blowing up cyberdyne in T2, doesn't automatically change the course of time, if it did as soon as arnie died there would have been a paradox event, as time isn't a straight line, T3 was an interesting concept, but poorly enacted IMO. This new movie is just hot garbage, it retconned the whole premise of the first two movies, to try and score woke points with people who probably won't even go see it.

[@tonygraves5633]

If you like terminator 3 you're easily please 🤪🙄😱😵🤯

[@SalemGhassanHanna]

I was skeptical of all the reviews calling it 'The best sequel since T2' because the same was said of T3, T4 and T5 when they were released. And it was true each time. But they were still noticeably inferior to the first two, even if they were rarely as bad as fanboys made them out to be. Put it this way: T3-T5 all made around $400m globally on $150m-200m budgets. They're not great movies but they're not big flops either. The audience is still out there; I can understand Hollywood's temptation to keep trying until they get it right again.

[@mcbpete]

You know the film poster people are now gonna grab the bit at 7:56 and write : "The best Terminator movie since T2" - Mark Kermode

[@JHD6045]

I'll be honest I'll take T3 rise of the machines over this movie.

[@tonygraves5633]

That was the worst movie out of the whole franchise

[@pwarner184]

Take a shot every time Mackenzie Davis says she's "Just enhanced"

[@Reephamike]

That'll be 2-3 shots then I know because I watched it twice and that's how many times, 2 or 3 times.

[@stevecollins5487]

They kill John Connor at the start of the movie Terminator dark fate

[@coljj4356]

She is the best thing in this film.

[@stevecollins5487]

@@coljj4356 that about sums things up 😂😂😂

[@DemeterPictures]

im gonna STAND and FIGHT!!!!

[@marcgreaves4354]

Carl sells drapes and has a son.Yep the nightmarish murdering skeleton has a son and sells drapery. Byeeeee......

[@derekangell829]

Seriously ? Could you live in a world where you have to MAKE your own drapes !?

[@WorldSacred]

I had to wonder what prompted him to talk about his drapery work at the warehouse.

[@thesolidsnakealpha]

1984 Kyle Reese: Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead. 2019: Turns out they can have feelings, and remorse. They can be reasoned with and have feelings. Also, they will keep a dog, raise a child and run a drapery company. Absolutely destroying the mythos and rules from the original two films, killing off one of the most beloved characters and replacing them with an empty vessel. Complete rubbish and anyone that is a terminator fan cannot watch this film without pointing to the screen and saying "That's bollocks".

[@thesolidsnakealpha]

@@Gadget-Walkmen 'I know now why you cry... But it is something I can NEVER do' Looks like that completely flew by YOUR head.

[@BarsimonR]

This was a great review...I like the "Wow to Why" point

[@DoItForU]

It's quite the opposite for me. I have questions for first 5 movies. But this one is plot holes free.

[@Indietrix]

It's time for Terminator 3.3: The Third Time's The Charm

[@thefoxcritic1]

HA LOL!!!! THIS COMMENT MADE MY DAY

[@Snagprophet]

It's actually the fourth Terminator 3. You have Rise, Salvation, Genysis and now Dark Fate.

[@Indietrix]

Snag Prophet in my head Salvation is Terminator 3: Salvation: 0: Genesis like some bad JRPG spinoff

[@Snagprophet]

@@Indietrix I checked the wikipedia and apparently they were going for some kind of retarded side-quel with that. So you're probably right, but in the heads of everyone involved Terminator 2 was the last decent movie. So I assumed the people who did Terminator 5 were thinking of Terminator 2 and not Salvation as the one that comes before this.

[@airingcupboard]

Terminator: I'll be bad. Sarah Connor: You're terminal.

[@blastmedia3218]

* I’ll be back. *You’re terminated

[@liosmani9353]

@@blastmedia3218 u missed the joke jackass. Stop trying to be extra clever""""

[@franzusgutlus54]

T2 might be the perfect sequal...in every aspect you can think of...

[@DoItForU]

It's James Cameron trick. Make first as horror and next as action

[@vincentvega22]

Aliens is also a perfect sequel, it's James Cameron's specialty.

[@franzusgutlus54]

@@vincentvega22 agreed

[@iska788]

Sorry, but T3 was definitely better than this abomination.

[@mikeadams7904]

Agreed

[@JohnnyZenith]

There is no T3.

[@iska788]

@@JohnnyZenith ?

[@kharma101]

@@JohnnyZenith In the franchise? Yes. Timeline? No

[@sandroace]

It's way better and better than fans give credit for. T3's narrative is simple yet effective. That being that Judgment Day is inevitable and all that matters was John Connors safety as was the case in T1(though through Sarah) and T2. T3 as you stated is way better than this!

[@MostlyPennyCat]

Might as well ask why Terminators only throw hero's across the room. Are they run by cat brains? Is it playing with its prey?

[@kevinthetruckdriver353]

Didn't Cameron said Terminator Genisys was the best Terminator movie since T2. *How that worked out??*

[@TheSt1092]

He was paid to say that on a promotional ad about Geniys on that . He never really thought that

[@nifralo2752]

When Arnie said "I'll be back" who would have thought hed be back again again again and again

[@ultgamercw6759]

I saw the trailer for this and thought it looked very bland. I didn't think it would be worth watching and it looks like I was right. For me I'll stick with the classic t2 over this dull looking cash cow.

[@Onmysheet]

I was excited about this movie when I heard James Cameron was on board, until he was only going to be producer and Tim Miller was director. And the trailer confirmed my expectation, just has the same problems Genysis has, Arnie & Linda Hamilton are too old of what they looked like 30 years ago and the antagonist doesn't look frightening in the slightest.

[@chasehedges6775]

Yeah, stop this frachise. It's over. I'm done. It had its own time and now that time's up.

[@chasehedges6775]

@Digonto Zahid I think the tagline to the movie should say, "_A Terminator movie. It's better than the last one, but that's not saying much._"

[@mikeadams7904]

He looked like a Spanish hedge trimmer

[@spaceman5017]

I read some of the leaks that came out about the film and I thought that’s too stupid to be true. Then the trailers came out and proved the leaks true.

[@sepptrutsch]

I thought the story is pretty decent actually.

[@eustacequinlank7418]

5:23 Uh oh, Mayo is shedding his mimetic polyalloy...

[@CS-mo7xp]

haha

[@bengejuknowit3048]

Totally agree with that review after seeing it today! Hated how they changed the John Conner story as we have known it since day 1! It's not a bad movie, there are some decent moments but I came out thinking, I'm done with it now! T1 & T2 started & ended perfectly for me! Now you have all this ninja type fighting & sliding down mountains like the hulk does in avenger's, which was never in the 1st 2 films!

[@moshosihole4185]

Wish they grounded and made it horror like the first one

[@dennett316]

They changed the John Connor story at the end of T2...what are you talking about? They changed the future, that much was made clear at the end of that movie. In this one Skynet no longer exists, John was no longer the saviour.

[@Onmysheet]

That's the thing with the plot holes in the Terminator movies, you cannot change something that's already begun/happening/happened. The reason why the T-800 was sent in T1 was Skynet's desperate attempt to rebuild another fortress to restart another war. This is what I like about 12 Monkeys is that the scientists tell Bruce Willis's character not to stop the outbreak because they know that it has already happened, they are just using time travel to try to find the source of the contagion so they can develop a cure.

[@bengejuknowit3048]

@@dennett316 what I mean is T1, T2, T3, salvation & genisys all have John Conner as a major thing & in this 1 it's like they just went, scrap that idea, now let's make it this woman who's gonna be the future leader hero. Also if several terminators are sent back to kill John as a boy in T2 time (which we didn't know for the last 28 years), why didn't they do that in T1 as well to kill Sarah? We all thought T2 served as a perfect end, the future was safe etc!

[@mundty3264]

@@bengejuknowit3048 Dark Fate having more than one Terminator sent back to kill young John is a retcon. Not a big deal. T2 also retconned how many Terminators were sent back as well, as Reese says in the first that nothing else could come through (it also retcons John's message to Sarah as told by Reese by adding the 'no fate but what you make' line). These are not big deals, and happens constantly in this series, usually handwaved away by 'time travel' or 'alternate futures' and such. Also worth noting that while, yes, John was a major thing in Genisys, he was still killed in the first 15 minutes and turned into a Terminator who served as the movie's villain.

[@TheSt1092]

This was clearly intended to be the Force Awakens of The Terminator franchise. I thought it was fine but there was nothing I haven't seen in T1 or T2 . Nice to see Linda Hamilton back. She is easily the best performer in the film.

[@1shoryuken]

T2, much like T1 is just timeless piece of terrific cinema. You mentioned the cgi but the stunts and action set pieces in T2 still hold up today. No movie can replicate that.

[@jeremybean-hodges6397]

Agree about T2, but while T1 is a classic, it's not timeless. I don't think that you could mistake it for being made in any decade other than the 80s.

[@blorkpovud1576]

"The best since T2. But that's not saying much" This has been my personal prediction for a while now. I'll probably go see it as an excuse for a night out.

[@anubusx]

"Timey Whimey" Mark channeling Doctor Who.

[@Silverfirefly1]

The Doctor is channeling British people, for an American audience. We have a lot of eccentric idioms.

[@lifeson90]

Terminator Salvation was pretty good, genuinely original, doesnt deserve association with the others that failed

[@fbcaware8805]

Every scene is taken from another film, though. That gets annoying.

[@divdo1]

Rise of the machines is an incredibly under rated film. It is much more of a terminator film than this horrible example. Dark Fate could’ve been awesome, so many wasted chances. The crane scene alone in Rises was brilliant, and out does the whole of dark fate. And weirdly enough Rise was darker than dark fate. Elton John style glasses and talk to the hand is easily forgivable compared to a family man terminator who sells damn curtains!!! Ah!!

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I tend to agree, thus far. Have seen a few fairly positive comments about this one was well, though.

[@lastrolo]

You forgot how a Terminator now has a pet dog too

[@divdo1]

Appy Ammer yeah...they don’t kill them now. The only plus :)

[@touchgameplay]

Watching Dark Fate i felt i was watching a remake with bits of T1 and T2 thrown into the mix to make Dark Fate. Its not bad nor is a must watch film either one to wait for it to appear on your local cable of streaming platforms

[@tma2001]

right on cue just watched it premiere tonight on free to air in the UK and appropriately enough, this was a film designed by algorithm. Just one long theme park rollercoaster ride ...

[@Sol3UK]

It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop ever until you are dead and after you're dead it will raise a family call itself Carl and specialize in drapes.

[@Aml-dr5oz]

so all the straggles in the first Terminator and T2 saving John was for nothing, it was all hopeless, useless?

[@alansmith4655]

Starts off ok. Then Arnie arrives on screen and it instantly turns into a parody of itself.

[@VampireJack10]

The franchise? TERMINATED.

[@tonyslater7204]

Any review that starts with, "It does great things for representation in films blah blah blah," is doomed to then be criticized as an actual film.

[@supersmart671]

I would say Predator did not need a sequel as well

[@FoundPoetry1456]

'a human/cyborg hybrid' means she's only one-quarter robot...

[@sapphiro]

She's not a robot, She's only enhanced...

[@Floral_Green]

sapphiro Bionic, then(?)

[@howzyerfather]

Terminator: The Consequences Will Never Be the Same

[@Whalewraith]

So did the last 3 movies not happen or are they all reset timelines?

[@IReallyLikeSnails]

I couldn't see it in your Sci-Fi playlist... but any chance of a review of Tarkovsky's Stalker?

[@travisbogetti177]

The “I am human” line ended my interest in this movie.

[@4Everlast]

Really? Out of all the B.S. that's the problem? Well she is still a human technically.

[@TheArtkaw]

Her being an augment is actually really cool.

[@4Everlast]

@@TheArtkaw No one has a problem with that.

[@mm3nrx]

it was bad...really bad, and I thought the last one was bad but this???

[@jvgreendarmok]

Why does the clip go silent at 1:30? (even before the birdsong'ed cuss word) I was listening to it on the podcast the other day and I noticed that the line where she explains her "enhancements" sounded really ADR'ed, so I looked it up here to see if she was off-screen at the time - what I saw instead was something stranger.

[@thefoxcritic1]

Wdym??

[@PhDTony_original]

If the terminator 1000 were always a low viscosity bliquid at all time and length scales it would be almost completely unable to manipulate it's environment or kill its target. Materials that can dissolve and re-establish their crystalline structure through fine scale electromagnetic manipulation and alternate between liquid and solid states are not inconceivable.

[@JohnDRobinsonelectronicdrums]

I still remember Schwarzenegger's openening presentation at the beginning of the DVD..'Terminator 3: rrrrrrise of the machines' always a chortle from me

[@kaiserkoba]

Director Jonathan Mostow (laughs in Schwarzenegger)

[@concerned1]

The original terminator was a horror movie with a little bit of action thrown in.

[@ivorbacon3825]

And brilliant as Arnie made a scary Terminator. The monster needs to be scary, unlike the Hispanic man in the new one.

[@ivorbacon3825]

Because Arnie made a scary monster. This new Hispanic actor doesn't scare.

[@Justadrie44]

I try to understand but I can’t do this film takes place after T2 but then what the hell happened during T3 🤔🤔

[@orsonkaart1853]

" I won't be back"! Great line lol!

[@malcolmgoldie]

Just seen it - totally pointless

[@BigDaddyACTUAL]

"It is the best Terminator film since T2.... but that aint saying much."...have a word with yourself Kermode. I'm in for a bloody treat then because I thought Rise of the Machines was great and Genisys was even better. I love the whole franchise, although it's probably biased for me since I was mesmorised by it when I saw the original Terminator when it came out in 1984, when I was 11 years old.

[@dennett316]

Genisys was awful man. I'm with you in liking Rise of the Machines as a great action film with a ballsy ending, but Genisys was the worst kind of garbage.

[@Al-vw8qt]

I'll be..."not back"

[@freedomandwhathaveyou4062]

Till this day I get goosebumps with nostalgia watching T2 saying that I'm afraid to see the new one

[@Freemouse159]

Kermode... the only critic where I trust his judgement 90% of the time and that's a high bar he sits at.👍

[@lesserspottedmugwump.363]

3 strong female leads though, Dani trying to be tough was one of the least convincing things I’ve ever seen.

[@manweller1]

Freemouse159 he gave a bull#### review for the Force Awakens. He lost my respect for that.

[@MrTkeddo]

Totally right Alien and Terminator sequels number 2 was the point when it should’ve stopped but ego , money and maybe a lot of cocaine made terrible Elvis impersonators.

[@South_0f_Heaven_]

Yeah why doesn’t the Rev9 or T1000 keep being the same person, would be lot more interesting if it changed its appearance every time.

[@Beyondflix]

Watching Simon Mayo take off his sweater is like seeing my dad cry

[@DJBigbadbuckley]

The cinema we were in today abbreviated it to Terminator: Dark Fat

[@blackgold63]

Why that?

[@douglasdea637]

Yes, T1 and T2 are the best, but I thought T3 was okay. It extended the story up to Judgement Day and showed the origin of Skynet which I thought was interesting. After that... meh. I would have preferred a film showing the war between humanity and Skynet and the final destruction of the latter. (With a scene showing the time machine and the terminators going through, being captured and the saviors going through.) Oh well, guess I'll never get that film.

[@glyph2011]

I concur. T3 I really like. No way near as good as 1 or 2 but still tied it all up. Then they went and made more. :-(

[@glyph2011]

Ps. I would pay money to see your idea for the future war movie. THAT would be great.

[@mattarnold198]

They could've brought back the horror genre with a T-1000 that was actually intelligent. The first 2 Terminators worked because each offered a new challenge in the form of a new foe; but what if the T-1000 hadn't been running at John in broad daylight and instead done what he did to the guy holding the coffee by melding into a surface and waiting for the right moment to strike? He could be the enemy you didn't see coming. Alternatively, why do the machines have to take the form of a living being at all? If the original Terminator technology was destroyed in the 2nd movie, the machines of the future would likely take a different form, having come from different research. The Terminator could be a self-aware software virus, using the Internet to infect any technology which would progress its goal; it could essentially be sent back in time to accelerate the building of physical means to kill John Connor and any resistance. The foil to this could be using technology too old to be useful to the virus and building it off the grid with your own counter-Terminator AI virus. There's so much room for creativity left after T2 but instead it's all just been "The cyborg's coming to get you, run and then chat for a while and wait for it to catch up or use your plot armour to fight it and don't forget to yell and curse a few times when you do because that'll stop it!".

[@Aristotle501]

Ewoks bringing down the Empire troops in ROTJ, Venom being stuffed into Spiderman 3, Richard Pryor being included in Superman III, 3D being added to Jaws 3, Taken 3 being a totally different story, Iron Man 3 and the bullshit bad guy, Newt and Hicks being killed off for Alien 3... If this is counted as the third instalment in the Terminator franchise (or even if you still count Rise of the Machines) anyone else see a pattern here? Maybe 2 is the perfect number because almost every franchise collapses in some way on the third instalment.

[@snozzlehead92]

Definitely not the best terminator movie since T2. It's the worst. How can it be the best when it kills off the central character and future leader of the resistance, which is what T1 and T2 were about? Dark Fate negates everything that came before it and makes it all for nothing. Total slap in the face and a compete abomination of a film.

[@nicholasdickens2801]

*7:22* Except for Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.

[@ewaf88]

It sounds like it needed more intelligence. We can do anything we like with CGI now to the extent that it's become just a tad boring. In T2 although it set the standard it was still used in clevrr ways. The T2 getting through the hospital security railing door and then realising that his gun couldn't go through the same way. Also the T2s superb impersonation of a tiled floor. So this film needed to be full of clever moments as once you have a nearly mature technology you still have to innovate with it

[@weskerwewe]

Who the hell thinks that this movie was beter than 3,4 and 5? Seriously?

[@TheMonkeyBizzness]

I don’t understand why T3 gets so much flack. I loved it. Still do. Salvation was okay, but ultimately a missed opportunity of a movie that should have properly covered the future war. Genisys was crap. And Dark Fate is just as crap.

[@ilash81]

After all the pretty gushing reviews made me question if I was nuts for thinking that the trailer looked awful so it's nice, in a way, to get a more lukewarm response to the film from the Good Doctor to restore some sanity to the world. I'm still pretty curious to see it, though, even after having been let down by the other three attempts to make a third Terminator film.

[@CarloisBuriedAlive]

Mr H Reviews and Oliver Harper pretty much said the same things as this video, so the gushing reviews are almost surely pandering nonsense

[@reniisgod]

What troubles me the most is the fact James Cameron gave this car crash of a script the green light. He should be ashamed of himself. T1 was and still is an absolute masterpiece, the perfect sci-fi horror film. T2 was a solid follow up, even though the tone and atmosphere had gone it still hit home.

[@fredfredburger5150]

I don't know which beloved franchise from my childhood has disappointed me more: Terminator or Predator.

[@sircliff323]

who says hollywood has run out of ideas?

[@skaro85]

When I saw Dani ramos in the future I actually laughed out loud in the cinema. Absolutely terrible.

[@givmespace]

gosh she looked terrible! like some little munchkin who would have got killed by that gang! she looked like a complete joke

[@craigmoorebrightsparkprodu799]

They really should have cast a different actress for the future scenes.

[@craigmoorebrightsparkprodu799]

@Zero One They tried very hard to make her look super tough and battle hardened but it just didn't work very well. Which is a pity because the scene itself wasn't bad.

[@linesangus9069]

It's honestly awful. It's like a child actor kicking people and the adults falling down. Its also why Dani, the supposed "main character" was not featured much in the promotional material. Her character is basically just there the whole movie. As is Sarah Connor. Half the movie is them being along for the ride while Mackenzie and Arnold do things. Now we can hear people who aren't strong or young whine about this film being too ableist.

[@Stu047]

Let me start by saying that I actually like spending time in the Terminator universe; I'm happy to watch any and all installments of the franchise. - It entertains me just fine and whilst I absolutely adore Terminator 2 (one of my favourite films), I don't actually HATE any of it! I think however that the main problem for all the more recent Terminator films (and indeed for all those Terminator films yet to be attempted) is T2 itself. It's the benchmark by which not only all Terminator films are compared to but sci-fi action films in general! The second problem is, I don't see that there's a great deal more you can do with a plot that basically calls on the good guys to spend most of the film trying to escape the crosshairs of the super advanced bad guy whilst at the same time plotting for a way to destroy him/her/it by the end of the film, especially since T2 has already done the job so damned well. That exact story has been told again and again and again... Another issue is that when T2 was release the CGI was such a step up over what had been seen before; it was a spectacle. As Kermode said, we were all wowed by it and even if your interest in the plot were to falter during that movie, you were almost certainly going to walk out of the cinema remembering how amazing the T-1000 was. - But that trick can't help a film these days. The quality of CGI is amazing in pretty much every film that Hollywood manufactures and there have been whole libraries of films that have made use of it. Film buffs no longer need ask, "How the hell did they do that?" - We all know "how it was done"; we are no longer surprised by the sight of the impossible splashed across our screens. In my opinion, the next Terminator film (if there ever is to be one) needs to be more clever, more thoughtful about it's story and its characters above all else; killer action and persistent CG droids? - Of course! It's a Terminator movie. But Hollywood needs to give us more than the same old variation on a theme we've been given movie after movie.

[@mrcraggle]

T2 was on TV the other day and I had no real interest in watching it until the point where it just stayed on my screen and I watched it. It just pulls you because that's how good movies work. Cameron surely can't be pleased to have his name attached to this?

[@RichBaggio]

Loved the first one but each one after (including 2) where they try to turn The Terminator into a human character just doesn’t work for me.

[@elwyndude]

I disagree with his assessment at 5:45. Yes you were wowed at the effects sure. But it still made sense, part of the whole storyline of T2 was how do you stop the T1000. > Why does it matter how hard you hit it? It doesnt... but thats all they could do at the time to slow it down. > Why does it take the shape of a person? Because its trying to find John Connor and its like an investigation, its not like John had GPS tracking on him at the time. Shifting to different people enabled him to get answers and locate John. > Why didnt he turn into a long string river? Huh? So he lands in the highway, turns into a river and flows down the road hoping to bump into John Connor. This was a really weird thought on Kermodes part. Fact is T2 still stands up because its a GREAT STORY. The "wow" factory might not be there anymore since CGI is now on steroids, but the story is what makes the first two a classic. The ONLY issue/question I might raise, (and you can throw in scenes from Salvation with this one), is why were the T800 the same? Ok I know its Arnold and franchise and blah blah blah. But just saying from a movie/story perspective, the original film Kyle says they were used to infiltrate the resistance. If you were building T800s to infiltrate, why would you make them look all the same? Wouldnt that make it slightly easy to identify? Although I would say in the original, in the flashback scene, you see a terminator invading their camp who doesnt appear to be Arnold, so maybe this isnt the case. I just think it might have been cool for T2 to have a different actor for the T800... someone like Fabio. But then again, you would lose that moment with the terminator and Sarah Connor....but how important was that. I should be working.... this was way TMI

[@elwyndude]

Me: I dont know about that, that doesnt explain why Skynet would create carbon copies of the same model when part of its intention was to infiltrate the enemy. Yes she probably would have told him all about the T800 and yes it would make sense for the resistance to send back a terminator that would John might be able to identifyr. But that doesnt explain why Skynet made them all the same mold, like Stormtroopers. Rest of the World: Its just a movie People who love movies: This discussion has merit.

[@Tentacular]

I don't understand how anyone could be left unsatisfied by this movie. It works both as an action movie and as a sequel to T2. They did everything right that was possible. If you're looking at with an eye to deconstruct it with questions such as "Why doesn't the Rev9 fluid half just turn into a snake and launch itself to kill people?", you could just as easily apply the same question to the T-1000... The fact is, this movie did everything right, giving us fans what we wanted in a sequel, key characters having returned and grown ("Carl" managing to be an effective surrogate for the T-800 that died at the end of T2), and the themes explored in the first two movies were progressed (Empowering the female... Empowering the son... Empowering the daughter...) The movie did everything right about staying true to keeping things consistent with the first two movies, and managed to deliver its own story that's both satisfying and relevant for its time.

[@Ady19907]

Maybe the fact Cameron didn't direct any of the sequels after t2 tells you everything