Terraforming Mars: Big Box Review with Tom Vasel

[@bruno6550]

This is exactly what you’d expect from a big box put together by those who came up with the components for Terraforming Mars

[@RTYB]

You mean the publisher sucks?

[@boardgameknight2791]

Glad you reviewed this, Tom! Totally took care of my FOMO. ;)

[@simonadams]

that box was $100 + shipping. Insanity.

[@Pantenkind75]

I got it, im glad I did, but I will never support another stronghold kickstarter again. They had a chance to really make this nice. Even the insert itself, though functional, does not seem custom at all. Add the poor quality control and other issues and you really have an underwhelming product that we paid a very premium price for

[@hmuriel]

Agreed. Add to that all of the delays and the price tag was NOT cheap. I'm glad I have it, it's "good" but I don't love it

[@eugenb.8448]

@@hmuriel It seems like a cynical cash grab. And the attitude on the Kickstarter is so condescending. Like you, never again.

[@ntmetroid]

Yeah. Im getting this in my Ares Expedition KS. Just based how that kickstarter went, I don’t think ill back something from them again.

[@rb4551]

@@eugenb.8448 They act like Apple but have the quality of LG, or worse.

[@ScytheNoire]

I agree. Completely turned off of Stronghold, especially when right after this they released new artwork for the next Terraforming Mars but didn't bother doing new artwork for the classic game. Completely done with Stronghold.

[@wayner7263]

The instructions for placing the game components did come with the box on mine. Unfortunately, it was attached to the plastic covering for the box. Just letting you know that how you placed your components were different from the official instructions. Basically, on top of the 1st tile tray held both hex map boards and the rulebooks. The top 2 trays are for your 3D tiles. The 3rd tray held your player boards, expansion boards, prelude cards, and the various cubes minus the original big white cubes. The bottom tray held all your expansion components. I don't own all the expansions (just prelude and the map board) so I used the bottom tray to hold all the original hex tiles from the main game. My biggest issue with the big box is that it is very hard to take out the 3rd tray once it's filled with components. I was disappointed that it did not come with the upgraded player boards nor the domes.

[@tttopolis]

Totally agree! Anachrony had a great gyide to how to organize everything in the huge mega box. No reason for companies not to theow this in!

[@brianw3880]

As someone who doesn't have any etsy stuff, it is a nice upgrade. Definitely could be a lot better but whatever, at least I can store all my TM stuff in one place

[@mike_heller]

I know he had nothing to do with this big box but I can just hear Tom yelling with his fist in the air, "Buonocooooooooore!"

[@thomasblaine7948]

Completely agree. I was underwhelmed. For a deluxe upgrade, it was lackluster. And not having an instruction sheet was maddening!

[@firststrikewrestling]

I love my TM Big Box. It serves its purpose of holding everything together in one place. It sure did replace the flimsy original box that's for sure. The only thing though is that it's not as portable as before; I cannot be bringing that around everywhere.

[@jerryf196]

it's 150$ for this? I mean I seen folded box for 40$ which can organise your stuff. BUT 150$!!!! LOL i will wrap my cards with elastic bands. put stuff into baggies and buy other games with 150$

[@wayner7263]

​@@jerryf196 It comes with the 3D tiles. It still may or may not justify the $150 cost to you. I believe if you you got in on the kickstarter, the cost was $100. I got mine at retail. I was disappointed that it did not come with the upgraded player boards nor the domes but overall, I am happy with my big box. I got the 3D Etsy printed player boards which turned out beautiful.

[@wayus6309]

I was sad I missed the Kickstarter. Then, I was glad.

[@wayner7263]

I don't do kickstarter but I had to grab it when it showed up at my FLGS

[@thomasromanelli2561]

Overall, the product is competently made and has delivered reasonable value for the content vs. price point. It doesn't really wow (especially compared to other 3rd party, more expensive tiles) but it remains a significant improvement over the base game. The real issues that will make me pause before I ever back a project from Stronghold again: 1] Incomprehensible QC faults from an experienced publisher- promo cards that are different sizes and barely fit the expensive, custom sleeves? Card box insert wrong size? Metal cube packaging (which wasn't their fault entirely)? 2] The poor and unprofessional communication from SHG in the forums. I DO NOT excuse any rude or derogatory comments from backers, but a publisher doesn't have the luxury for talking down to its backers, ever. 3] The "unsolicited refunds" to backers deemed to be "problematic" in their negative commentary- which sets a terrible precedent for KS. Tom Vasel summed it best- I'm glad I ordered it and will have it in my collection, but will be even more glad when fulfillment is all behind me.

[@sds802]

The kickstarter updates have a new layout update. Lays out all the inserts and where it all goes in the box.

[@danielgoyens126]

I got it but I am sad I didn't get the domes for the cities.

[@ninehundred352]

ORGANIZATION FIX! Not having an organization guide is annoying and it frustrated me for a few minutes but I just printed off the portion of the original ks page that shows where everything goes. It’s about half way down the page in a section titled “Organization”. I printed out that section and stuck it in the box. I know it’s dumb that they didn’t do it but we can’t fix that side of it. Hope this helps others!

[@liambest8213]

Agree with Tom here, in that I'm glad I have it, but only because it's better than nothing at all. I definitely don't feel like I got my money's worth since it cost $120 (including the fleet ships and first player marker) and that's not even including shipping (which was not cheap to the UK)

[@suorastas1]

I really like TM but I’m quite content only having Prelude and Hellas/Elysium. The game doesn’t need to be any more complicated and it all fits in the original box.

[@GGdeTOURS37]

I'm 100% with you! Exactly! TM + Prelude + Hellas & Elysium > Great and enough!

[@sedraniM]

Some more extra corporations are always cool, but the extra expansions are meh

[@suorastas1]

@@sedraniM If there was an expansion with just say 15-20 extra corporations I’d definitely include it but everything else just seems more trouble than it’s worth. The game takes 2,5 hours as it is.

[@wayner7263]

The Colony expansion looks good though. I may end up buying it. The prelude and the map board expansions are the best

[@suorastas1]

Guess who owns Turmoil, Venus and Colonies now.

[@eliumeldritch]

Great review! Honest as usual!

[@FedouBC]

It would be funny if the games that doesn't receive a seal of approval or excellence just get a word at the end, like "Glad" or "Problematic"

[@JohnQSpartan]

I must say I received my Big Box the other day, and I'm completely happy with it. I think the box and tiles are beautiful and the insert is well thought out. As mentioned it should have had instructions on how to sort everything into the box, but that's about the only criticism I can levy against them, which isn't much in my books.

[@JeSuisLaChic]

Great honest review Tom! Perfect timing after that "Ugly but beautiful inside" video where you all talked about Terraforming Mars and its lackluster game components, and needing to do so many upgrades.

[@MikeDV34]

Why do bad reviews = honest reviews?

[@josiahleis6574]

@@MikeDV34 Because it wasn't a "bad review", it was a balanced one. "Balanced" usually equals "honest", because they are presenting both sides. Tom said he liked it, he was glad he had it, and that it was cool. He also pointed out some negatives and ways it could've or should've been better.

[@LeeKenshin7]

@@josiahleis6574 But balanced ≠ honest. You probably don't meant it but by calling this review out as an "honest" review, it has the implication that some of Tom's review are not honest, whether balanced or not in your opinion.

[@dancondonjones]

I don’t get that implication at all.

[@JeSuisLaChic]

@@MikeDV34 I'm sure people can be honest when they're praising something and/or when they are criticizing something. Whether the review was "bad" or "good" is subjective, depends how you define bad/good. I thought it was a great review because he was thorough, and when I say "honest" it's because he didn't hold back when it came to criticizing what didn't work. People tend to hold back in order not to offend and maybe for that reason it can seem that people always associate honest reviews with "bad" reviews, but I think it's totally possible for people to be honest when giving "good" reviews too.

[@Monkeyb00y]

I'm glad I didn't get this one. However, one that I wish did come out would have been a Big Box for Western Legends... They didn't even consider it in their last kickstarter which finished up the series. Hopefully companies will take notes on how to run things better in the future.

[@TheDarktater]

Still waiting on my copy here :( The only thing that will bother me are the mismatched sizes on the cards. That is not ok.

[@ClockworkWyrm]

I never could have backed this because the price is prohibitive but I'm still glad I didn't. It's a nice idea, as the multitudinous amounts of upgrades on Etsy attest, but poor execution. Heck Even Wingspan which had no insert printed a packing guide on the side of the box, it's not that hard. Also, unrelated, you've come a long way over the years Tom and it's great to see you still going strong. Thank you for all you do for the community.

[@chrisnelson2948]

The only original parts I have left are the cards, player cubes and rule book. Everything else has been changed. Also, to bad you didn’t get the cubes. Would’ve loved that video.

[@nchlsrdmr]

I'm personally delighted with this big box in every way. I think it's really fantastic. Finally I can set the game up quickly, and I think the quality is excellent!

[@wayner7263]

I thought the components of the big box was sub par. The plastic containers are flimsy and I always worry when I take out the 3rd tray

[@nchlsrdmr]

@@wayner7263 2 years on and I'm still very happy with mine. As long as you're careful, nothing to worry about at all.

[@Noonycurt]

We have all the expansions and new player boards in the original box. It's a tight fit, but it works.

[@benkirby317]

Do you have sleeved cards? I got everything before turmoil in the box, but can’t fit that anymore :(

[@Noonycurt]

@@benkirby317 No, they are not sleeved.

[@wayner7263]

Yes, you can fit all expansions in the main box but to keep things organized, you will need those inserts

[@Noonycurt]

@@wayner7263 We use inserts for some games, but for TM plastic bags are fine.

[@DVCBear]

Good accurate review. Manual + no instructions was a downer. Box quality, could have been better. Still glad to own.

[@johnioannis8206]

What's the difference with the new small box ?

[@RyanHipp]

I am also wondering if the Robinson Crusoe bigbox will have these same problems

[@harimakenji7608]

Does the big box include the base game?

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I'll wait for a future Kickstarter.

[@pilotvc]

I would be ok with this for a more reasonable price, but those cards being a different size, that is a real bummer. Why? How? Why?

[@sedraniM]

I didnt check on BGG yet, but are Stronghold Games planning on getting replacement cards for this? Mine dont fit into my sleeves because of that (all other cards do fit)

[@pilotvc]

@@funnyonlineuploads testing?

[@nipzie]

@@funnyonlineuploads it's cards. If you can't get a standard size card right, you shouldn't be making games.

[@kwirl]

anyone know where to get those colonies wood pieces?

[@RadishTheFool]

Yeah, I'll stick to the app. Looks better, is way more convenient, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Stronghold doesn't seem to love Terraforming Mars nearly as much as us fans do. The most effort has once again gone into cutting as many corners as they could.

[@eugenb.8448]

I too enjoy the app but man is the one we play on Steam poorly coded. Can’t pick player colours. Doesn’t show draft direction. Timers are never right (probably an off by one error). Loses your deck every so often (probably an off by one error) so you have to wait for it to come back around or click on different parts of the game for it to come back. Shows VP wrong all the time (probably an off by one error). Can’t sort cards into an order to play. So much wasted real estate on the screen - your hand could easily be shown along the bottom ala Twilight Struggle. Can’t hover over a hex to find out what the damn thing is. Certain non city tiles the same colour as city tiles. Doesn’t ask you “Are you sure” if you say “Done” before selecting or viewing all your initial cards but does ask are you sure all the time elsewhere where it doesn’t matter. I could go on but to what point. Even putting in bug reports results in silence from the developers. Shoddy coding like this big box, they have your money so they don’t care much.

[@Niffin.]

They show how to sort things in the box on the Kickstarter campaign

[@alwaysardent1125]

I still haven't played my Terraforming Mars set since receiving it all, because I just get frustrated to no end about all the cards and organisation.

[@ulisescoronado7548]

The best dice tower judgement ever 🤣

[@mugthemagpie3001]

I didn't find any of the flaws pointed out in this video. This might be caused by the fact that our publisher (and translator), Rebel PL, has extremely high quality control. Cards are the same size, the price of the entire box is merely $70 (and free shipping) and it seems to be made from a bit different and more sturdy materials. The instructions on how to put stuff inside is also included. It could be Rebel's or even any Polish publishers' thing since it is considered a premium quality product at such a price. The Polish (fully translated game too) TI4 box has some different items not available in the English version of the game for example. The Polish release of Tortuga 2199 or even TM's sister, Ares Expedition, already possesses the KS promos too. There are even cases when the Polish version of some board games have way better quality than original ones, such as Star Realms.

[@Noland55]

I found directions showing what went where.

[@ElGrandoCaymano]

Hi Tom/DT - What's with the display of Bora Bora? A great dice w/p game IMO, but I know Tom is NOT a Stefan Feld fan and I could not see any news that it is being reprinted. Is there any significance to why it's being displayed?

[@thedicetower]

Nope, just showing off random games from the Dice Tower library.

[@hogari]

Otherwise the Big Box is fine for it's purpose, and I quite like it - but the size difference between new cards and the the old is inexcusable, and drove me nuts. Old cards were already a tight fit for the sleeves I use (Paladin Percival), and now I have to use different sleeves for the ~20 new cards? I'm not going to re-sleeve my old cards because of this. Very frustrating.

[@tomasxfranco]

It looks like the 3d tiles need some shading and highlighting

[@idea82]

Me- just glad i didn't have to go searching for other vids on how to put things in. Just following Tom's setup. 😉 I received a damaged box for free for out local games club, would not have bought it otherwise, as you say- the fan made upgrades for this game already seem so much better. But the new cards were great- Also- in the pack I got they were exactly the same size, so you might have got ones that was off on the card-cutter?

[@LeeKenshin7]

Prior to the announcement of this KS, I purchased a 3D printer and took a couple of months to print my own set of tiles. The initial investment cost in time and supply was steep so I was upset at myself when Stronghold announced this KS. Now, I'm glad I did what I did especially seeing this product. It was a much better investment.

[@wayner7263]

How much do you think it cost you to print out all 86 tiles?

[@jenniferhaar7934]

I agree with these comments. I got mine and Im happy with it. I had my expectations set at the correct level. Still, it really did feel underwhelming. And i couldnt agree more about the sheet that tells you how to put it together. I realize that there are ways to find out how online, but come on....a sheet would of been nice!

[@SFuruli]

Why didn't you just go to the Kickstarter page which has a large organization picture of where to put everything in the box? 😝

[@razzledazzle15]

The box itself is nice, but the tiles are kind of cheap and crappy compared to my etsy set. The slightly larger cards are ever so slightly too big to fit in standard sleeves, so i had to buy their proprietary ones. Feels like a rip off.

[@sedraniM]

Are they not offering replacement cards?

[@razzledazzle15]

@@sedraniM not that im aware of

[@sedraniM]

@@razzledazzle15 That's annoying, mine doesnt fit my Dragon Shield Sleeves...

[@Darkangelus429]

Regarding the odd card size, I sleeve all my TM cards and as long as they still fit the standard size sleeves, shouldnt be too big an issue. I definitely want those colonies overlays though as i just bought that expansion. Only missing Venus and Turmoil. Thanks for the heads up Tom. Keep up the great work, good sir.

[@marcwillner3818]

Hopefully this review lit a fire under their butts, they just sent the backers a PDF of how to store everything. Still should have been a printed sheet. Excellent review as usual.

[@wayner7263]

I would think that majority of backers would have a printer

[@NapoleonsTriumph]

$300 for the box in NZ.

[@elquiltro92]

Imagine the backers faces when they find out they can build custom inserts to fit EVERYTHING in the original base game box.

[@veryblocky]

If you have 3D tiles you wouldn’t be able to. I have a foam insert in the original box which fits everything, but if I ever wanted some plastic tiles I’d need a separate container

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

NO INSTRUCTION SHEET??? 🤬

[@Dthamilaye]

Usually these big boxes should have instructions, but this one had so much extra room that you can fit everything in many different ways. There are several big wells that are empty for me. The different size cards, it seems all new cards are that bigger size. At least my new base game I got with the big box were same size as the protos.

[@nomascontrol]

I also got this and after receiving it I'm glad I got it, but I will never buy anything from Stronghold games again.

[@gitgeronimo9375]

Broken Token has a nice looking crate. Anyone here have it?

[@joeferreti9442]

I'm so so glad I didn't get this! So unnecessary and cumbersome! But that the promo cards have different size than the other cards they're supposed to shuffle together with. Crazy! I would be so mad! Stronghold Games and FryxGames and Schwerkraft-Verlag are best to be avoided in the future.

[@dafickler]

I love this game and I had a HUGE problem with the size of the added cards. I Double-sleeved my game. The perfect-fits were already really tight on the old ones. The new ones were terrible to put in them and they bow like crazy so I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to take off the perfect fits and just single sleeve my game now. Why the crap did Stronghold just not make the cards the standard size?!...and how do you not cut the additional cards the same size?!

[@loneXolf]

Looks a bit low quality for the price tag.

[@bieltann9058]

Oh no, the metal cubes weren't just individually wrapped. The individually wrapped cubes were also separated into different colours, each in their own bag. Finally all three of these bags were also in another plastic bag.

[@ChaosandComics]

Credit the videos you watched. That's just polite.

[@logiclust]

love my big box - seems quite obvious where everything went to me. a unified rulebook would have been nice. kinda expected one but it was never mentioned on the KS. one box instead of 3? SOLD

[@thereal4579]

how to sort the box is literally on the KS page.....such a baby

[@VladislavKluska]

Anachrony did so much better job with their deluxe box. With proper manual how to sort everything and put it back... I'm always surprised that this big games like Terraforming are so much worse than much smaller ones.

[@BrandonGraham]

Did you see the base game? ...are you really surprised?

[@VladislavKluska]

@@BrandonGraham I didn't see it in person,because the game looks so ugly for me, that I know it's not something I wanna play.

[@BrandonGraham]

@@VladislavKluska I got the game when it came out. Opened a new-in-shrink copy, and the cubes were already flaking off their "metal" coating. The cards were cheap, the art was random stuff like if you used google to find random images, and the player mat was slightly thicker than paper. For something like $70.

[@VladislavKluska]

@@BrandonGraham That's kinda sad...

[@RyanHipp]

Glad I didn't go all in on the Kickstarter!

[@Crs9072]

No, the tiles from the original game ARE better than the "fancy" plastic junk that's in this box. Plastic doesn't mean automatically better. These make the game much cluttered, more difficult to see the board state, and take way more space in general. They also don't look that great.

[@robotskirts]

Just today (a day after the video) they published the packing guide as a kickstarter update www.kickstarter.com/projects/strongholdgames/terraforming-mars-big-box/posts/3216953

[@ralelunar]

All that hubbub from Stronghold about finally giving us 3D tiles and the box doesn't even come with a proper instructional guide. That pretty much sums up these bloated Kickstarter projects. They attract people with the shiny stuff but don't pay attention to the functionality of the product.

[@erlantoktomambetov7907]

If Tom dropped everything for the introduction like he usually does, I think it'd cause a little earthquake

[@JerreMuesli]

Not sure who was waiting for this at the given price..

[@janchristian7763]

I am rather happy with the box itself and the molds, which does not mean that things could not have been better - but somewhat I feel at the end of the day you have to I integrate you dream scenario with the reality at hand (I mean come on we regularly do it with movies which still entertain us). So having said that I feel like this review is somewhat missing the point. So the box's rating is good to ok with a couple of things one can deal with but is it in the end a deal you should go for? Does Etsy for instance offer you the better deal(s) in the end? As it is not a new game but just component upgrades without a comment in this direction the whole review does not really serve a purpose I feel..... PS if you want to be annoyed with stronghold take their answering of question during the campaign for any company out there THIS IS HOW NOT TO DO IT

[@GGdeTOURS37]

TY Tom for the video! Really sorry but for me all those ugly plastic 3D pieces are much more awful that the original hexes I loved! Subjective thing you said? So not for me! But TM is still my #1 Board Game!

[@Flipbug_The_Whimsical]

great review - I could tell it was painful to admit all the flaws

[@JonoNZBoardGamer]

This game seems incredibly bloated with all the expansions. I hope in a few years time they release a second edition that comes with Prelude in the base game and better art/components. Only if that happens will I ever consider buying Terraforming Mars.

[@wayner7263]

If they do a collector's ed or 2nd ed, I believe they will include the upgraded player boards. It will be interesting to see if they will offer ceramic tiles (like Castles of Burgandy).

[@Power-Mad]

I HATE kallax monsters. When you've made your game 3 layers of inserts deep and have to pull out a lot of unnecessary stuff in order to get to the necessary stuff, your box should've just been a coffin box. So what they don't fit in a very specific ikea shelf that boardgame reviewers made popular, I wanna open up a lid and grab what I need.

[@bushibayushi]

[@dall1786]

I'm still surprised they missed the opportunity to make a complete all in one Rulebook for the game. I mean if you are getting this box you more than likely have all the expansions anyway. They could have used it to clean up a few of the rules that are not understood well by new players and had a page for how to put the box together all in one. Those tiles are nice but Tom is being overly generous when he says they are on par with secondary market tiles. Secondary market 3D tiles are light years better. The worst has to be those garbage cardboard player boards that will warp over time. you can get WAY better ones for the same price as they sell them separately in wood. All in all a terrible product IMO.

[@a.c.s.6204]

I disagree on the tiles. The 3d tiles have a better look about them than almost all Etsy tiles. All of the Etsy have one big flaw and that's imperfections in the 3d printing process. These tiles are made very cleanly and manufactured by a company. Not by some dude sitting in his garage.

[@mitchalibi2794]

The Ancient Greek word for "whatever" is "ΟΤΙ ΝΑ'ΝΑΙ".

[@bushibayushi]

...or you could buy Race for the Galaxy, which is basically a deck of cards with some tokens and a MUCH better game overall

[@BandNerdcp]

that's like, your opinion, maaan

[@Haladras]

@@BandNerdcp But it’s a good one. People are far too forgiving of TM’s design flaws. It’s a heavy-euro length for a medium- or even light- euro depth.

[@bill0804]

Seems expensive for what you get

[@florianstock376]

And still misses the most practical upgrade you can get for Terraforming Mars: A card shuffling machine.

[@robbmg9716]

Bruh, no. How about not bloating the product with generic stuff that is not needed by most, and is already had by most of the rest? If you want a card shuffling machine you can buy one... Or just learn to do a bendless riffle shuffle.

[@Nemspy]

I'd prefer a deluxe edition with better cards and card art than the big box.

[@abhishekvenkat2309]

I must be part of the minority that prefers the regular tiles to these toy looking things.

[@ArnoVdVelde]

That's a lot of bling for one of the ugliest games out there :p

[@crivgil]

Nah I'm happy with my BB and all add-ons, besides there is no rocket science to organize things inside the box, and you can always organize things as you wish, I had just the base game and never played other expansions (I was waiting this bundle) anyway for me is a huge improvement compared to the cheap base game components, surely there is a lot of room for improvement here and some etsy tiles looks better but is way more expensive and with no storage solution, I got it, I'm glad I did and the table presence looks amazing but I understand the complaints of others, maybe my expectations were low and was a nice surprise, as always if you skipped and you are glad it's good and if you got it and don't like it, just sell it, and that's good too

[@joseg.6187]

Oh man, no sleeves!

[@Darkangelus429]

I know right. That hurt my soul a little bit.

[@thedicetower]

I like not having a pile that goes to the ceiling when we play.

[@joseg.6187]

@@thedicetower the new tower box in the product was to handle that! Haha does not work?

[@thedicetower]

@@joseg.6187 I also forgot to mention that I hate handling sleeved cards. I just don't like them, sorry!

[@Steve-L]

Tom has stated this for years. Nothing new.

[@jschildress1]

Yep, not even a single sheet showing where everything goes. I had to find a video to do it and even that video wasn't a "How to" video. Just lazy.

[@rb4551]

They would have lost 2 penny profit per box so F U, loyal customer. lol Thats their attitude all around.

[@dayoltay]

This is how it should have been. The quality of the regular copy is an insult to the buyer.

[@skipmcilvaine]

Barf!

[@brucebush5744]

This game must have been cursed to always look ugly

[@HotshotH]

The illustration on the original kickstarter page shows you where everything goes. Not difficult at all.

[@jonathanwest6266]

Yeah but why should someone have to look that up? - especially if they buy it in retail!

[@eugenb.8448]

@@jonathanwest6266 I fully agree. And the few pennies (at most) to add in a sheet is just another example of them cheaping out. I just view this now as a money grab and then they’ll do a Deluxe edition in 2 years to suck more money out of fans for the game. But I’m done.

[@Steve-L]

What if internet crashes? hard copies.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Terraforming Mars is mega ugly.

[@thejibberjabberwookiee8604]

Whoopie kada doo

[@adamg4912]

Good game but too slow paced for my taste.

[@thecrabbydice]

Wiat u expected quality from stronghold games ? Rofl ... they havnt made a quality product in terms of art and components ever

[@NathanBeitler]

Escape from Atlantis is good.

[@sebastianortega1938]

New title for the video: Tom Vasel's trademark "carelessly toss everything around using only one hand", while reviewing Terraforming Mars Big Box and trying to figure out how to put everything back in the box. Now, jokes apart, I'm really thinking about buying the big box but I just can't find any truly unbiased reviews to check on it. This video didn't really help :/

[@TheMellowSide]

You realise reviews are inherently biased as a medium, right? There's no such thing as objective review, what you're looking for is a product description. And besides, you can see the contents of the box here just fine.

[@aonline_abridged]

Underwhelming. could have been better, cooler, unique...was my overall feeling as well. The only time I went, "neat", was when I saw how compact the cube holders were. The cities in particular had too similar a mold, it was like they sucked the fun and creativity out of futuristic Martian city design. Just OK in the end.

[@BrownEagle]

Tom seemed really upset he had to figure out how to put things in, even though he benefitted from the freedom of the box to allow his own upgraded components to fit. I love the Box, does everything I wanted from it (be a nice Box). What games that offer Big Box storage solutions do people enjoy? AT LEAST THIS GOT ONE, waiting on you Root, Spirit Island.

[@LeeKenshin7]

I really enjoy Scythe Legendary box. I actually my TM stuff in the base Scythe box and hang the base TM box as wall art. Too much space can also be an issue (e.g. component shift, wasted shelf space).

[@rb4551]

Stronghold lost me as a customer despite being a huge fan of their game and its sad. Trying to gauge people to buy turmoil to get the much awaited dual layered player boards was strike 1 but I was willing to look away since I actually enjoyed turmoil ( yes you can wait to buy later, but also most decent publishers will allow options to buy that stuff during KS...there was 0 excuse). Then finally coming out with a big box which everyone requested and forcing you to buy garbage level tiles that are worse than etsy tiles and priced about the same despite mass production savings. Then again giving no options for people who already have etsy tiles or dont want etsy tiles but have all their stuff. Seriously that company is worse than Apple. 0 excuse for their greed. Juice your brand name and disregard your loyal fans, its your prerogative but dont expect long term loyalty. Short term gains vs long term pains. Cant wait to see what they will force you to buy when they finally redesign their ugly cards that everyone has asked for for ages. lol. im so done with them.

[@rb4551]

@@klabjcobevj72nso0fj4 its 100% greed. Many successful companies offer options to their backers. You dont want all the fluff? Join the pledge manager and order a la carte. Its beneficial in the sense that they basically use as preorder and can secure more numbers for larger print runs which saves money to everyone. However, their system is to be greedy, hold back options and try to capitalize on fomo / impulse buying. its quite gross. Its totally their prerogative, but some people see through their business tactic and they will lose those people's trust. Id never do that to my clients anyways. Call it a major difference of values / opinions.

[@boardgameknight2791]

When you say that Stronghold games is greedy, you're really saying Steven Buonocore is greedy, cause that's pretty much who Stronghold games is. And I gotta say, having met they guy, and watched and listened to hours and hours of his content over the years, I don't think that's a fair label. Dude left big money firms (like Lehman Brothers) to make hobby games - that's not exactly a career move that says "greedy" to me. He works hard and struggles just like all the other smaller publishers out there. Also, one thing to keep in mind with Stronghold Games is that Steven manufactures his games in the US, so the prices are a bit higher and the quality is not the same as coming from the factories in China. However, I do love supporting companies that find alternatives to China for manufacturing. I for one, am happy paying the extra dollars in this case.

[@pjpaella]

Calling the Big Box tiles garbage is quite hyperbolic. The tiles are nice, and yes it's subjective, but I find them very nice.

[@MeanNGreen17]

@@boardgameknight2791 Steven has nothing to do with Stronghold anymore. He retired last August 1.

[@boardgameknight2791]

Yes, that's true. I guess that makes it so he wasn't responsible for the Kickstarter? Idk, actually. But I still felt the need to defend him - feel like he and his publishing company has been hated on unfairly over the years. :)

[@GreggBolinger]

Late to the comments here, but what's frustrating about this review is, it is clear Tom didn't participate in the KS. If he had, he would know what everything was for and he'd know that the KS page had the photo instructions for how everything fit in the box,. Additionally, they provided a downloadable PDF of the same. So while he may be reviewing this from more of a retail perspective, some of the complaints would make more sense if he had stated that.