Tesla reveal how long its batteries last after 200,000 miles of driving

Tesla reveal how long its batteries last after 200,000 miles of driving
-
👇👇 The Electric Viking store/merchandise 👇👇
shop.theelectr...
Size guide and other help for the store 👇
theelectricvik...
🔔 Subscribe and hit the notification bell! ► www.youtube.co...
Join me on Patreon ► / theelectricviking
Join as a member in The Electric Viking KZbin►
/ @electricviking
Members-only videos (see videos before anyone else)►
• Members-only videos
👇👇 Please donate here for Shanna (Viking's wife) if you can 👇👇
gofund.me/ef66...
See what happened to Shanna:
• Stage 4 can go to hell...
Get a 10% discount on tickets to Fully Charged Live in 2023 (and meet me in person). 10% discount code for London and San Diego will be released closer to the event dates.
Buy ticket from here: tickets.lup.co...
The Electric Viking on other platforms:
Rumble ► rumble.com/c/T...
Facebook page ► / theelectricvikingfb
Facebook group ► / theevfbgroup
Twitter ► / theevking
Instagram ► / theelectricvking
Pinterest ► / theelectricviking
Telegram ► t.me/theelectr...
TikTok ► / theelectricviking
My Stake referral link ► tinyurl.com/he...
👇 See more about me 👇
• You've been asking; he...
👇 My Bali trip 👇
• I went to Indonesia an...
👇 Video about My Skateboard 👇
• EASIEST & cheapest way...
👇 Subscribe to my kids channel 👇
tinyurl.com/su...
See more videos about Tesla:
Tesla overtakes Audi in global car sales. BMW & Mercedes are next...
• Tesla overtakes Audi i...
Tesla releases NEW version of Model Y in Canada - BIG discount
• Tesla releases NEW ver...
Elon Musk reveals Tesla's strategy over the next 12 months
• Elon Musk reveals Tesl...
Charging all EV brands is now WAY cheaper with Tesla's network
• Charging all EV brands...
Tesla's 2 new battery manufacturing lines for the Cybertruck
• Tesla's 2 new battery ...
US electric car sales SURGE 45%; Tesla takes 62.4% marketshare
• US electric car sales ...
Tesla's NEW LR Model 3 weighs 250 pounds less + 20 miles more range
• Tesla's NEW LR Model 3...
20 CHANGES confirmed for NEW Tesla Model 3 and Y
• 20 CHANGES confirmed f...
Buick Electra E5 - GM's $30,000 Tesla Model Y competitor
• Buick Electra E5 - GM'...
Renault says Tesla's price cuts are a BIG warning to the auto industry
• Renault says Tesla's p...
Ford Mustang Mach-E now $7000 - $24,000 pricier than Tesla Model Y
• Ford Mustang Mach-E no...
Tesla's new suspension system - in development for over 4 years
• Tesla's new suspension...
Tesla reduce prices again - Model 3 cheaper than VW ID3
• Tesla reduce prices ag...
Tesla's 600kw V4 chargers will bankrupt many charging companies
• Tesla's 600kw V4 charg...
Tesla's Carbon Credit profits hit NEW record in 2022 - 2023 prediction
• Tesla's Carbon Credit ...
Canadian lithium mine delivers 'non battery grade' lithium to Tesla
• Canadian lithium mine ...
Bullish Tesla analyst says Cybertruck will be made in 'Ferrari' quantity
• Bullish Tesla analyst ...
Tesla Master Plan 3 says Cybertruck battery will be TINY
• Tesla Master Plan 3 sa...
Tesla reveal details of Model 2, bus, Cybertruck battery & new truck
• Tesla reveal details o...
Tesla takes over Europe - marketshare nearly doubles VS 2022!
• Tesla takes over Europ...
Tesla Q1 2023 China made EV sales far better than analysts forecast
• Tesla takes over Europ...
GM double Ford sales, Bolt breaks records - Tesla is next says Mary...
• GM double Ford sales, ...
Tesla's plan to produce 4M Model 2 (small Model Y) confirmed
• Tesla's plan to produc...
Tesla reduces price in Australia of all models + NEW model Y
• Tesla reduces price in...
Tesla's Cybertruck production line is ALMOST READY
• Tesla's Cybertruck pro...
#teslaevs #batteries #range #evproductions #evnews
This channel may use some copyrighted materials without specific authorization of the owner; but content used here falls under the “Fair Use” Copyright Disclaimer under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976.
Allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
Contact us for any copyright issues. If you want a credit of any footage we are using, please let us know.
Website: theelectricvik...
Email: [e-mail]

[@smartelectriccar]

2013 Model S. 10 years old. VIN 6000. 10% degradation. Supercharged 2000 times. Amazing battery longevity.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

What is the mileage of your early example Model S? Thanks.

[@kabysummit5801]

Wow that's awesome

[@teem5642]

What's your current mileage? 2000 charges in 10years, that's hell crazy. You telling me you've been charging your car every 1.8 days on average? How much mileage do you do a day?

[@davidinkster1296]

That is such good news. I will never have to replace a battery! I am 75, so, when I buy an EV, as I plan to do shortly, it will last for the rest of my life!

[@Lifecoach7Ra]

I had the same idea in mind and at 72 I do not care later to loose some low percentage of range but with the TCO of electric I will even buy another one the next 4 years. I will go from my EV6 AWD to the next level EV6 GT.😂🤓🇨🇭

[@Ryan-ff2db]

Don't sell yourself short. Lot's of people are living to 100 these days.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

@@Ryan-ff2db Yes, but there are no 100 year olds still driving. In Australia, the authorities would rightly withdraw the driving privileges and licence of someone of this age.

[@Ryan-ff2db]

@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Yeah, there is no age limit here in the US but once you reach 70 they make you take a eye and driving test every 4 years in person when you renew your license to see if you're still capable. I did a repair for 101 year man who ran into his garage because he was texting his grand daughter, which is crazy to me. He was living with his son who was 70 himself so they had good blood. He said he was giving up his license but 101 is a pretty good run. He was still in really good shape for his age and obviously took well to technology. Had a lot of respect for that old guy, even though he definitely shouldn't have been texting and driving.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

@@Ryan-ff2db Typically, older Australians live out their lives in retirement homes as they are unable to take care of their daily routines. It really goes without saying that the nurses, doctors and management staff of the nursing home would view an 80 year old with a car with a great deal of vigilance. To the point where when it becomes obvious that there is a safety risk, management will ban the resident from driving on premises, with the authorities then notified that the resident no longer has the mental faculties to drive a car safely.

[@HoosierCarnivore]

I drive 45,000 miles per year for my insurance appraisal business. My 2019 Tesla M3LR Dual Motor battery has about 10% degradation at 60,000 miles ( I bought it used with low miles). I'm expecting to keep the car at least 5 years or until about 250-300,000 miles. Should be interesting to see how much I can get for it in 5 years with that many miles on it! I'm sold on the brand and EV's in general. Never going back to gas cars.

[@dhui777]

My experience with my 2018 LR M3 is that the 2170 batteries actually degrade faster when they get older. Mine dropped 15% already at 88k miles. Only supercharged 3 times in 5 years. Almost always charged between 20-80%.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

People who do 50-100 miles/day are waiting for you to get bored with your Tesla... Be nice to your poorer Tesla supporters....!! 😆😅😂

[@coltburks5450]

It's weird right now. Banks have no idea how to value evs.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@dhui777 there's some issue with only ever doing 20%-80% charging. Every so often you need to do a 100% charge so that the BMS (Battery Management System) can evaluate the battery's full, useful capacity.

[@dhui777]

@@alexmanojlovic768 ok, thanks. I will try charging full to see what happens.

[@ericv.3647]

I have 70,000 miles on my 2018 LR RWD Model 3 and only have about a 5% decrase in my battery range.

[@glenndotarcher]

M3LR with 35,000 kms, 14 months old - degradation 2.2%. Mostly charge on 15 amps circuit at home.

[@OtisFlint]

Degradation is not linear. Year one is much more than the ones that follow.

[@vec306]

Hey brother. Same model but I’ve had mine for 3 years but close to same mileage. Ditto on the % loss. Oops mine is in miles not Km.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

This works out at 30,000km annually, which is a lot of driving. The Australian average is only 12,000km.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

Sam, I think you and the media are missing a central reason as to why larger battery packs have higher degradation. The people who buy the larger battery pack cars are people for which range between charges is important. This implies that those people are making longer trips, which in turn implies more DC fast charging. DC fast charging will degrade a battery pack faster over time. Cars with smaller battery packs are more likely to be commuter cars and slow charge at home, thus avoiding as much degradation.

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

Good point. Every use case is different. Ours is - retired couple living in rural France, had Kia e-Niro from new in 2019 that is our only car. We have averaged 19,000 km a year over 4 years, 85% of our km are from home charging and covered by the solar panels on our roof. We haven't even bothered with a home charger, just a regular plug at 2.2 kW...typically we plug in once a week at around 25% and take it to 80%. On road trips of course we use DC rapid charging but maybe a couple of dozen times a year. The battery is NMC and OK, maybe LFP does last longer but to all intents and purposes I am unlikely ever to need another battery at my age (66) as with a 450 km range I can tolerate some degradation. Besides, it isn't all about the chemistry of the cells, it's how they are assembled and managed. The SK On NMC battery in my car is one of 2.5 million in EVs now on the roads and there have been no fires...whereas other manufacturers have had fires which were found to have been caused by manufacturing process errors, not the inherent chemistry of the cells.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Great info on the longevity of early EVs! I am of the silver haired crowd too, but can hardly wait for the EV transition. Cleaner air, quieter roadways. Is anyone realizing how valuable land near once noisy roadways will become in the next 20 years? Not investment advice 😉

[@brendonbackwell9706]

The degradation was at 300,000 mile. Whether you do it on long drives or short drives, it is still 300,000 miles. Sam is right about the short range LFP batteries lasting longer as LFP have been shown to be able to be cycled about 75% more times than Ternary. Batteries and their cooling and management are always getting better so the 12% degradadation from older teslas will be bettered by newer Teslas. EVs are developing quicker that flat screen tv's

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

@@nickmcconnell1291 if it’s near an exit, it should be obvious. There is some noise from faster vehicles, even if they are electric, though.

[@Sommers234]

Actually he said that right in the beginning

[@pgiatrakis]

Absolutely correct by my experience, my plug-in Prius has close to 100,000 miles on it and 40% are total EV ! 12 mile range so 40,000 / 12(miles) = ~ 3,000 cycles so my Y Has a 300 mile range X 3,000 cycles = ~ ONE MILLION MILES ! By the way these are Panasonic 18650 batteries in PIP & still going strong. Thanks Electric Viking ⚡️❤️ Great channel 👍👍

[@scottbreseke716]

When new, the Prius supposedly does 54 mpg, but by the time I sold my 12-year-old Prius, it was only getting about 39 mpg.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@scottbreseke716 maybe it needed a good thrash (Italian tune up) to clear out the rarely utilised petrol system?

[@pgiatrakis]

@@scottbreseke716 yes and to me that is a big difference. I would imagine that the nickel metal hydride battery in THAT regular Prius was possibly spent AND the ICE engine needed a tuneup. However a PIP has several unfair advantages 1.) much higher battery capacity 2.) lighter battery 3.) different battery chemistries AND MORE IMPORTANTLY a plug-in feature which translates to a much higher MPG & LESS MPG DEGRADATION WITH AGE. In any event the battery has a 11 mile range today and indicates that my Tesla will probably go at least a million miles by the time it reaches similar degradation. At 10K miles per year I don’t think anyone will be around to see it. Lol

[@kabysummit5801]

I'm not so lucky. My Lexus gs450h hybrid battery died at 97k miles at 12 years old. I had a refurbished one with lifetime warranty installed. I still love the car though. Pretty soon will be giving it to my college bound daughter.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@kabysummit5801 a Leaf battery (much bigger) can be refurbished for £750 by various UK specialists. So a teeny hybrid battery should be far cheaper to restore. How much did you pay? Also, "lifetime warranties" usually restrict to "while you own the vehicle", so depending on how long you expect to keep the car & the fuel saving the battery will provide, it's not always worth spending the extra for that "peace of mind" "warranty".

[@airheart1]

The supercharging doesn't seem to have the effect you think it does. Now, HOW you supercharge may degrade it more.. but I supercharge a lot.. every week.. and I have about 6-7% degradation in 5 and 1/2 years. I bet I would have right about the same if I slow charged over the same time, which wouldn't even be possible for me to do with my job. The thing is.. you gotta be smart on how you do it.. keeping it between the 20-80% marks most of the time, seems to be keeping it very good condition. There may be other % ranges that work too.. but I've been doing the 20-80% for the vast majority of it's life and it's worked very well. Now maybe I'll be at 15% lost over the same 10 year time frame you mention vs the 12% you mention.. but it's pretty similar and I'll be very happy with the 15% loss at 10 years / 200,000 miles.

[@davidbeppler3032]

I expect my 2022 TM3LR to last more than a million miles. I did the math. Based on average degradation I will lose 30%. I should have more than 250 miles with a full charge at a million miles and 20 years. :) This is the math for the 82Kw NMC batteries. LFP batteries should last for longer than the car.

[@skepticalmechanic]

I don’t know.. my model 3 sr with 270 mile range is plenty for me… I hardly EVER drive more than 120 in a day… most of my trips are 10-15 miles a day…

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

Yes, EV driving range and associated battery degradation is irrelevant for most drivers. Even the standard range Model 3 has 491km of range. On average, Australians only drive 33km each day.

[@S3XYEV]

It would take me 16 to 20 years to drive 200,000 miles. The longest I’ve owned a car is 11 years.

[@sleepyintoronto]

Not sure we can totally make that claim about long term degradation Sam. You are using just distance, but there are so many other factors like time degradation. Also average state of charge is big. NCA batteries are happiest at 50%, so if some keeps their SOC at 90%, degradation will be worst. I work from home most days, so I keep my MY at 30-50% SOC and only ramp up to 80% if I have a road trip.

[@MrArtist7777]

ICE vehicles realize a 10-15% range loss after 150-200k miles as well. This is mostly due to gummed up pistons, injectors, fuel lines, air intakes, etc. anyone who says otherwise, isn’t being honest. I grew up in an auto repair shop.

[@nicholasn.2883]

You’re supposed to change all of those at 200k 😭

[@thomasruwart1722]

I can't wait for the Dilithium Crystal in the Structural Glovebox - 1 LY range baby! Sorry, just trying to add a small bit of humor to all y'alls YT viewing.😊

[@pvmagnus]

Does fast charging degrade with time too? Cause we don't really need big battery now for city running & we only need fast charging of about 40% for road trips right?

[@IndigenousEarthling101]

Tesla has revealed nothing. They only admitted that Panasonic's 18650 battery cells (in Models S & X) have lost about 12% capacity after 200,000 miles. They have not disclosed anything about the lifecycle characteristics of their own 4680 ternary liquid cathode and forthcoming dry cathode batteries. From previous laboratory reports I expect their 4680 ternary liquid cathode batteries to last at least 300,000 miles before seeing similar degradation. I also expect their 4680 ternary dry cathode batteries (likely for Cybertruck) to last over 1,000,000 miles before seeing similar degradation. They have not started manufacturing their own 4680 LFP batteries as yet, likely because it is still much cheaper to buy them from CATL, BYD, and other partners. Eventually, as their energy business and lower cost next generation platform vehicles scale production, Tesla will need more LFP batteries than its partners can supply, and will begin to make their own 4680 LFP batteries, with cycle life well over 1,000,000 miles.

[@dhui777]

Exactly, model s/x are small portion of Tesla sales. Why do they only publish model s/x data and not model 3/y? Of course Tesla knows.

[@ZoeyR86]

My 2021 Model 3 performance has 39,578mi on it if that gives you an idea on a Part Time Uber driver

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

31,860km each year. This is brutal. Does the economics of being an Uber driver make sense?

[@ZoeyR86]

@S Uber black + toro at times 1 car gross income is 178k but it's not for the faint of heart. I have other side income out side that

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

@@ZoeyR86 I am from Australia. What is Toro? Did you really mean Turo, where you rent out your car for others to drive?

[@ZoeyR86]

@S Turo sorry was driving lol when I want a day off I rent it out

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

@@ZoeyR86 In Australia, with the average Uber Black hourly rate being about AUD $35/hr, a driver would need to drive 60 hours each and every week, with no holidays, to make $109k. And, this is before tax. After tax, this annual amount is reduced to $81k. Plus, there are operational, maintenance and depreciation costs of purchasing and maintaining the car at the requisite Uber level. How much would this cost for a nice Tesla car? Maybe $20k annually? So, after the car expenses, the driver is down to a measly $61k. The Australian worker is better off being a supermarket staffer as the pay and benefits are much better! The supermarket worker will be paid annual holiday and sick leave.

[@MegaWilderness]

Battery longevity is irrelevant for Tesla as new cars are fitted with different chemistry and cell type (4680). Not yet proven

[@mosconi0359]

I've had Teslas for the past 6 years. I've had a Model 3 and a Model Y. Both were Long Range versions. No noticeable degradation in 3 years time in either of them. Media lies about Teslas because they hate Elon Musk and Tesla. Thanks for telling the truth, I doubt you will change any Tesla or electric vehicle hater's minds though.

[@TheAccent72]

Battery life is one aspect, and clearly less of a concern than the naysayers would have us believe. However, what about potential obsolescence of the onboard computer and processor? Don't necessarily see much comment about that. How well will today's Teslas - or any modern car, for that matter - fare with 15 years of version upgrades and patches? I'm not at all an expert on this topic so would appreciate input here.

[@MegaWilderness]

If robotaxis become a thing the need for software becomes irrelevant as most passengers will just continue to use their own devices which rapidly upgrade hardware. All that is required of the taxi are Bluetooth speakers

[@davefroman4700]

In ten years it will be a non issue. Ownership will be silly.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@davefroman4700 ownership NOW is silly, but there's no suitable alternative ATM. Roll on Robotaxis & cheap costs per mile. Private cars for racing & outlier needs.

[@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis]

@@alexmanojlovic768 it is worth noting that more than a few people use a vehicle as a roving room of their house or an office or other type of workplace, such as soccer moms, tradespeople (plumbers, electricians, food trucks, etc.) so there are certainly plenty of outliers besides people living far out in the countryside.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis Yes, good examples for everyone else's awareness. But I agree, & the majority of naysayers don't seem to realise we're at least 10-15 years away from a large EV majority on the roads. No one expects average/low income earners to switch until battery costs drop dramatically & the infrastructure can cope with the energy demands, or rooftop solar becomes commonplace. At which point Robotaxis WILL exist & be cheaper, more convenient & more practical than owning/running your own car.

[@filipbalas495]

I'd love to compare degradation LG Chem M48 NCM vs. Pana NCA. But every data I could find mixes the two..

[@udishomer5852]

200,000 miles is: 15 years of driving for an average American driver (~13,000 miles per year) 24-30 years of driving for an average European driver (~7,000-8,500 miles per year, depending on the country)

[@zedski]

After 3 years and 135000km my 2020 Model 3 LR is at 7% degradation. Didn't really go down much for the past year.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

You are driving 45,000km each and every year?

[@zedski]

@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Correct.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

@@zedski Wow. This is approaching 4 times the Australian driving average of 12,000km annually. Is your workplace 70km away from home? Well, with this astonishing level of driving, the return on investment with the Tesla EV came about very quickly.

[@zedski]

@@user-kc1tf7zm3b My daily work commute is 55km round trip. Around 10000km per year just going to office and back. On top of that I drive some extra for work, around another 10000km per year which are compensated. About 25000 personal for the past 3 years just because EVs are so cheap to drive here (I live in Finland). Last summer for example I took a trip around Europe with family which totaled about 13000km.

[@alistairnicholson2046]

Battery degradation is also affected by hard acceleration (generating heat) and charge outside the 20-80% range. LFP is more tolerant of overcharging, and Tesla solved BMS issues by recommending charging to 100% on a weekly basis. Certainly it should be done before long trips to reset the BMS, but otherwise weekly seems excessively damaging to battery longevity. Certainly Teslas with more than 500,000 km on Li-ion exist. by which time most ICE engines need a major overhaul.

[@OtisFlint]

I beat on my car constantly (but no track use) so we'll see how the battery holds up. I kill ICE cars also, so a good test case lol.

[@davefroman4700]

Most Ice cars are pretty much junk at 250k these days. They do not build them to last anymore.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@davefroman4700 And replacement engines/gearboxes are ridiculously expensive. (but, but, but, battery prices...)

[@hijinks21]

What people never talk about is gas cars have mileage degradation also as they get more miles on them and engine wear starts to happen.

[@brendanpells912]

My old Hyundai diesel has done over 260,000 miles and still achieves the same fuel economy as when it was new. If the engine blew up I could get a second-hand engine fitted for not more than £1000.

[@scottbreseke716]

Plus, most car fires happen in gas-powered cars.

[@brendanpells912]

@@scottbreseke716 Easier to put out though. Imagine a basement full of parked EVs, one spontaneously catches fire, it can't be extinguished with equipment at hand, the heat is enough for the surrounding EVs to catch fire, the heat is so intense that the fabric of the building is damaged. I wonder how many times that will happen before it's mandatory to keep EVs parked out in the open.

[@MegaWilderness]

​@@brendanpells912 The lone voice of reason and good economics

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

@@scottbreseke716 Petrol ICE cars are 60x more likely to catch on fire compared to EVs.

[@karlosh9286]

It's not just quantity of charge cycles, and the speed they've been charged at that causes battery degradation. Age will do it too. It's chemistry ...

[@Tottorul]

what about colder climates? its going to run many more cycles due to freezing temps

[@AbelShields]

Hey - have you seen/made a video about the new magnetic technology to reduce battery degradation? I saw a new report saying that with by applying an external magnetic field while charging, battery degradation can be slowed drastically, even with fast charging (and it enabled charging at much higher speeds) - and all this on standard batteries already included in these EVs, no modification required!

[@MegaWilderness]

No modifications? How much weight do you suppose will be added into creating these magnetic fields?

[@AbelShields]

@@MegaWilderness the magnetic fields are generated by the charger, under the car, not the car itself :) no limits on weight for that!

[@johnb7430]

Government data says average USA driver does 13,500 miles a year. Meaning 200 000 miles is 14.8 years.

[@litestuffllc7249]

There is a gent here that drove his Tesla 1 million miles. Doing so required 4 battery packs; the original and 3 more. 1 was covered by Tesla, none the less just these not counting any other costs says you'll need a new $16,000 pack on average every 250,000 miles so the 200k is a rather conveniant range. You might have gone with a 3rd party or refurbished pack, but even the slightest flaw could result in a fire; so Tesla itself doesn't recommend you do that. Another fellow drove his S 300,000 miles but he incurred $20,000 in out of warranty repairs and other in warranty repairs, he did not yet replace his pack but it looks like it is likely he will have to.

[@markmiller8903]

Have fun with your thermal runaway!

[@ematejowsky]

A high charge cycle expectancy does not guarantee you will get a long calendar life. Batteries age whether they are cycled or not. It is good that high use cars are getting these long distances but it does not mean a low use car will last beyond 10 years. I hope they do but we don't know that - yet. Temperature is also a factor in aging.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

If you rarely use a car, then current EV tech/pricing is presently the wrong choice unless you have more money than sense. Or fell in love with a particular car.

[@Longsnowsm]

It appears the data reflects there is an expected level of degradation vs the abnormal level of degradation. The more you deep cycle the battery, charge to 100%, drain all the way down, and DCFC the worse the degradation will be. Extreme climates hot or cold also add more stress on the batteries. The harder you drive it pushing hard the more degradation. The bottom line it is a lot like an ICE engine. You can't abuse it and expect it to last. You can't be afraid to tell consumers the truth. Too many people are putting rose colored glasses on due to the marketing and then shocked and disappointed with the performance of the EV when driving at high speeds, in the cold etc. Tell people the truth and set the correct expectations and it will go a long ways to happier EV owners. Tell people how to care for these batteries up front instead of blowing smoke or sunshine up there backsides and people will know what to do and what not to do. Proper charging and care and we frankly don't know how long these batteries will last. But if you want to know the bottom line look at the warranty info from the manufacturers and they will typically tell you 2-3% a year degradation is still within "normal wear" and will not be covered for a warranty replacement or repair. That is the bottom line. If people take care of the batteries they likely won't see anything that bad.

[@tycurtin7565]

Oh really??? I can drain my gas tank down to zero and fill it up to the top every single time for 300k miles and guess what????? I can still go the same number of miles as when the car was new. The maintenance is fluid changes. And the rest of the car.....BOTH EV and ICE have doors, wheels, bearings, suspension and they will all wear out as well.

[@Longsnowsm]

@@tycurtin7565 Well there is degradation over time with ICE so it does not get the exact same efficiency it did when it was new. However not as nearly noticeable as with an EV. The thing you forgot to mention is you can rebuild and ICE today and restore it back to near new efficiency. Today if you so choose you can put 300k on that car, rebuild that engine and do it all over again. They have not gotten that far yet with EV's to refurbish batteries and associated parts. Lots of things they have not sorted out yet. But my point being you abuse your ICE it will not last. You abuse you EV it will not last. The latter at this time is much more expensive to repair or replace when that happens. Take care of your batteries. Learn best practices. Just like we hopefully understand what those practices are with a ICE. People have to learn the specifics and facts around EV's and not just digest all the marketing/pro-transition nonsense and actually understand what they should and should not be doing. How long will these batteries last? The honest answer is no one knows yet. Time will tell the story.

[@steve5090406]

There has to be page on the screen that can show the degradation level of the pack, it would be an excellent bit of info for the second hand market, similar to an odometer.

[@jarjarbinx79]

nissan leafs have this state of health indicator

[@davidlloyd8135]

Keep focused on charging to 80%. Last 10+ years

[@franklong6269]

The LFP batteries should be far superior to the Nickel Manganese Cobalt batteries. LFP batteries typically will retain 80% - 90% of their capacity after 4000 - 6000 charging cycles. That equates to charging your car every single day for 11 years. Some solar LFP batteries are issuing a limited warranty that guarantees that the batteries will retain 90% of their capacity after 10 years of charging. I bought a 2022 Tesla Model 3 with 77,000 miles on it. when I charged it to full charge (100%) it stated that I have 261 miles of range, which is 96% of its original capacity of 272 miles. That means after 77,000 miles, it has retained 96% of its capacity, which is very good. I haven't measured the actual mileage I get because I drive fast, and that lowers the range quite a bit. When I am patient enough to drive close to the speed limit, I get between 4 miles per KW and 4.5 miles per KW, which equates to 253 - 283 miles of range. I have never gotten that much range because I don't drive slow enough for an entire charge cycle to get that much consistently. But that is not the car's fault. I THINK realistically, I get around 230 - 250 miles of range off of a full charge, but it could be a lot more. I have only had the car for a little over three weeks, so it's hard to pin down the actual mileage I am getting on a full charge.

[@thomasruwart1722]

Speaking of batteries... do a YT search for "Mercedes EV Spoof" It's hilarious!

[@junkerzn7312]

You have to be a bit careful. Tesla always leaves a hidden buffer in the battery pack on a new car. The loss of capacity eats into that buffer slowly, so the driver's experienced loss occurs at a lower rate than is actually happening in the battery. Tesla is playing a bit of a game here. That said, Tesla batteries still appear to have impressively good longevity.

[@chriso847]

2012 Chevy Volt. 110,000 miles. Roughly 10 percent degradation in range.

[@johnqcitizen9177]

Sam where is your “proof” that “supercharging” will have more battery degradation ??

[@dhui777]

There is a reason why Tesla didn’t include Model 3/Y in the data because the 2170 batteries degrade much faster than 18650 batteries used in model S/X. My 2018 Long Range RWD model 3 has already lost 15% of range with less than 90k miles driven in less than 5 years. I have almost never supercharged. Only 3 times in 4.5 years. I heard similar degradation from other Model 3 owners online. 4680 batteries could degrade even faster.

[@andrewradford3953]

I wonder how much they degrade by at 5/10 year old, on low mileage cars?

[@pgiatrakis]

Absolutely correct by my experience, my plug-in Prius has close to 100,000 miles on it and 40% are total EV ! 12 mile range so 40,000 / 12(miles) = ~ 3,000 cycles so my Y Has a 300 mile range X 3,000 cycles = ~ ONE MILLION MILES ! By the way these are Panasonic 18650 batteries in PIP & still going strong. Thanks Electric Viking ⚡️❤️ Great channel 👍👍

[@scottbreseke716]

Most battery degradation happens during the first year, not much degradation in any of the years that follow that.

[@jsanders100]

I charge slowly at home and try not to go to 100% but I’m still not sure if this really makes any difference

[@Berretotube]

For sure it does - you’re doing it right. Superchargers are great when on the road but they’re tougher on the battery for sure. Nice work 👍

[@AbelShields]

If you have an LFP cell, it's supposed to go to 100% regularly

[@Berretotube]

@@AbelShields yes good point 👍

[@AbelShields]

@@alexmanojlovic768 "If your vehicle is equipped with an LFP Battery, Tesla recommends that you keep your charge limit set to 100%, even for daily use, and that you also fully charge to 100% at least once per week. If Model 3 has been parked for longer than a week, Tesla recommends driving as you normally would and charge to 100% at your earliest convenience." - from the Tesla site I think "at least once per week" is fairly frequently.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@AbelShields OK. My bad!

[@jamesthompson7282]

Sam, lithium batteries degrade with usage (number of cycles) AND with age. Traditionally the rule of thumb was 20%/yr no matter how much (or little) they're used. That was the case quoted to me for consumer cells through 2015 in conversations with lithium battery engineers. You could extend life (reduce degradation) by storing lithium batteries in a freezer, though no one would do that. Obviously Tesla has broken that rule. Query: to what extent does age matter now? What should we now expect for degradation in percentage/year through chemistry decay?

[@papermaker85]

Let me see your testing. You can't prove it. I'll bet my check on it

[@noleftturns]

This means nothing What ONLY matters is how long the battery has a warranty after that you have to front the entire cost of a new battery and you better believe that will show up in the resale price.

[@scotty3114]

LiFePo batteries die instantly if you try to use them at tempuratures below freezing.

[@jimfergusondev]

There's one question I can't get answered. If the battery degrades 12% like in your story, does it mean the KHW/Mile goes up? in other words will I also be putting less energy in the battery?

[@Lifecoach7Ra]

Why should the kWh/miles go up? You just have e.g. 12 % less ‚storage‘ capacity. Modern cars state anyhow net values e.g. Kia 77,4 kWh but in fact the battery has about 87 kWh which means that there is a rather big buffer before any effect will be remarked by users.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

When you lose battery capacity and health, you lose driving range. So, the battery becomes less efficient and productive.

[@idmhead0160]

I have a 2015 Nissan LEAF with 56,000 miles. I lost one bar so far. There are 12 bars. So, 8.3%. It only has a 24 kwh pack. So, I always charge to 100%. I'm in the midwest. So, temperatures aren't too bad. I store it in a heated garage in the winter and only use it in warmer weather. Range could be about 75 miles without heat or AC in 50 degree weather, not driving fast. I never fast charge. I used to use the 110V charger at a parking garage at work. Otherwise, I normally use the 240V charger at home. In the winter, I unplug the main charging port and use a battery maintainer on the 12V battery. Otherwise, I found that leaving it plugged in on the main charging port won't keep the 12V battery topped off.

[@joeblack4026]

First bar on Leaf is actually 15% battery loss

[@OtisFlint]

Hope you bought it used for a nickel, otherwise....oof.

[@jeffminyard7796]

Maybe only charge to 80% like they recommend

[@idmhead0160]

@@jeffminyard7796 If I had a larger battery with longer range, I would. If it's cold and I drive fast, or run the heater, range could be significantly lower than 75. It could be 50. Probably, I should store it at 80% in the winter at least, rather than having it topped off.

[@idmhead0160]

@@joeblack4026 Assuming it's linear, 100% / 12 = 8.3%

[@ΣτέφανοςΚόκκαλης-τ1ν]

M3p 660 charge cycles (Scan my Tesla) around 9% degradation Nerd stuff 60% dc fast charging 30% ac, almost always to 100% never below 15%. Think 1500 charge cycles in total capable, and another 1500 in home back up storage use

[@OtisFlint]

Why are you almost always charging to 100%? You really need the full range every day? My M3P sees 96% level 2 AC and a 100% charge will likely only be a few times a year. Hope to have a lot better than 9% at that point.

[@ΣτέφανοςΚόκκαλης-τ1ν]

Elon said it makes a small difference and feels nice to 100% No real reason

[@jpmackin]

Want a longer battery pack…it depends how often you rub your bum on the hood.

[@JulianSale]

I have a Model 3 with 25,000 kms (15,000 miles) after 1.5 years. I've charged twice to 100%. I charged twice to 90%. I have run the battery down to 11% twice. All other charging between 20% and 80%. Have used Tesla superchargers 10 times and third party fast chargers 10 times. All the remaining charges have been done at home connected to a 240 volt outlet. My range has dropped 9.5%. Seems that I am an outlier. Hope it stabilizes at this point.

[@ericklein5097]

Is that an LFP? What temps does your car live in. Cold weather LFP 9.5% sounds right. Degradation should slow down. Also you haven’t done a full cycle often enough for the computer to truly know.

[@borshardsd]

21 m3 lr +acceleration boost 58k miles, having fun with the power, 5 ~1200mile super charger trips per year. Usually charging lvl 2 with provided mobile charger at home. Degradation around 6-7% i believe. What's the best way to do that math?

[@alexmanojlovic768]

With smile on your face? Especially every time an ICE drives past (or you blow it's doors off...) 😁👍

[@borshardsd]

@Alex Manojlovic there is always a faster car that an enthusiast has tweaked ;) but yeah its been an overall positive and cheap operating experience with a few frustrating points caused by some cheaper areas of the car and or QC practices. But you might be messing with me so idk how to answer =b All love.

[@MarksElectricLife]

My M3 LR will probably outlive me. I mostly trickle charge at home and keep between 40% and 60% state of charge. Whoever buys it off me will get an almost pristine battery 🔋

[@brendanpells912]

Makes you wonder why they don't pull ahead of the competition and start offering a 200,000 mile / 15 year warranty. Isn't that just as likely to bring in sales than just cutting prices. It won't cost Tesla anything if the degradation is as low as Tesla claims it to be.

[@OtisFlint]

Those numbers are accurate, there is plenty of independent data out there that says about the same. The current cars have better chemistries and didn't come with free unlimited supercharging, so likely closer to 8-9% @ 200k.

[@brendanpells912]

@@OtisFlint So would you agree there's no good reason not to offer a better warranty than the competition?

[@tv-ld3wv]

If you use the car on track every day with supercharging everyday, battery will degrade dramatically Like ICE their gearbox , turbo and engine lifetime will degrade on track

[@tv-ld3wv]

Also they should wait till 4680 ramp up production In which offering longer warranty will be advertisements for this new battery

[@Instajjampong]

This is true! If they truly believe their batteries have that kind of longevity in real life situations, then back it up with a corresponding warranty!

[@backcountryFLcyclist]

2021 Long Range Model 3. 57k miles. Charged it to 100% the other week and the guess-o-meter said 341 mi range. So about 4% degradation. Most charging is done at home with a Tesla Wall Charger. DC fast charging only about 10 times.

[@daniml7258]

Your forgetting time. The vast majority of owners would take 10-20 years to get that type of mileage I’m sure that is not factored into the calculation.

[@ulf5738]

Tesla is full of BS. I don’t know many Tesla S in Norway who haven’t replaced the battery multiple times but it ain’t many. Some of them have even had 4 packs. So I don’t trust anything Tesla claims.

[@MegaWilderness]

I remain distrustful as this is hugely important to me as I habitually buy 10-year-old diesel for the time being

[@Berretotube]

😂😂 I think u might be telling lies 😂😂

[@L1VE3V1L]

Calling bullshit on this anecdote

[@Berretotube]

@@L1VE3V1L 100%

[@corrupt1user]

Even if the battery degrades to 50%, they could still be used in a municipal setting. Imagine, ten thousand old batteries in a warehouse somewhere, absorbing all the excess electricity and discharging during peak hours or being used during a black start...

[@koskos758]

DC fast charging degrades batteries faster, BUT M3SR+ has artificially limited charge speed.

[@peterjohnstaples]

In yachts the data is ---- LiPo batteries do not like to sit at 100% charge and don't discharge them below 25% and you will get over 2500 cycles and last for many years with a good management and a top of the line management system.

[@davidmergist2165]

I have a 2023 M Y LR, it's used for around town or very short trips - at present I run the car from 83% to about 20% in a week then charge weekly on home L2 charger BUT at about 20amps which takes overnight (240v). Is it better for the battery to trickle this way or at say 40amps at less time ? I'm retired and in no hurry to burn a battery.

[@suresh_elonbro]

i have 5.3% degradation after 54k miles. tessie is suggest average degradation after 100k is 10%. i will be suprised if i get only 12% deg after 200k miles.

[@treborheminway3814]

I think you're right about people saying batteries only last ten years, but I would also suggest that Tesla claiming 12percent on average, doesn't slam the door shut on this argument. I'd really like to see them back this up by extending the warranty. Then, who cares, just point to the warranty and tell the ICE owners with three year warranties to chew on it.

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

Warranties cannot last forever, be it for an EV or ICE car. At one point, the owner has to assume all of the risks of owning an old car.

[@treborheminway3814]

@@user-kc1tf7zm3b if you make claims, you should back them up. Tesla has only gone backwards on warranties. why not use your own data unless you don't really trust it.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

Battery chemistry is changing rapidly, making long term, continuous data of a given set if batteries difficult. Probs why they don't change the warranties. Live with it...

[@treborheminway3814]

@@alexmanojlovic768 easily.

[@cocjos5818]

Tesla battery warranty = 8 years / 120,000 miles

[@my2cents395]

Battery management has improved so going forward you should see less degradation. Plus if an EV has 2X or 3X the life of an Ice vehicle is it not much cheaper to own. When people figure this out Ice vehicles are going to look very expensive to buy and own.

[@adisurd]

I saw a video posted 2 weeks ago. It sourced info from some website that showed model 3 total cost of ownership in its life of 240k miles will be less than that of a Camry in its life of 160k miles

[@hanswurst1660]

My model 3 RWD has 3,5% degradation after 30.000km.

[@syproful]

I think powertools are a good benchmark. The reason i say that is because they get abused. Temperature, crazy operating temperatures and high currents when push it. I still run 10year old Makita Lithiums.

[@ΣτέφανοςΚόκκαλης-τ1ν]

Charge cycles is the correct comparison, Regen a lot, when you leave in a mountain for example, will degrease Life or when you use sentry mode a lot will decrease life e.t.c.

[@eventhusist6969]

I've had my m3 for under 2 months and just cracked 5k KMs

[@larryfine6865]

1st gen battery packs beat ICE already. Just wait 😊

[@DavGreg]

I put about 25k miles a year on my cars, Viking.

[@realestatenow]

Is there a way to see in one of the menus the percentage of battery degradation? If not how how do you determine that?

[@FiDelZarlar]

Great, tks!

[@rozonoemi9374]

Fast Charge don't destroy or degrade any more than charging at home, if you go the 80 - 20% range!

[@scottbreseke716]

I avoid the faster Superchargers and intentionally choose the slower Superchargers instead.

[@johnbush8254]

My sons tesla model Y long range in the USA came from the Freemont factory. Would it have the NCA or the NCM battery chemistry.

[@pgiatrakis]

Most likely the 2170 NCM. Projected more cycles than the model S 18650s so great longevity!

[@scottbreseke716]

Probably 2170 cells. Same as my current M3P and my previous car M3LR. Both from Fremont factory. Both cars are/were great.

[@mallamal5578]

You might be shocked but we who know tesla well know the batteries will last, there are model s with over 1m miles.

[@grahamoldfield3871]

I don't know why Tesla doesn't put in a 20% larger LFP battery in Model Y and 3 . the actual cost to Tesla would be about $1,000 . They can control the initial range to existing range for the first 1-2 years then add 5% in every year for 4 years this would reduce the affect of reduced range after a few years . This could also be a great selling point . It could also be available as say a once a month reserve in case of emergency say when on a trip and there is a power outage where you plan to recharge .

[@dougphillips239]

I’m sure it’s because an LFP battery is already large - it’s fills the space that is normally taken up by an LR model Li-ion pack. LFP packs have a lower energy density than Li-ion packs. One reason I purchased an LR car is to allow for more battery degradation - much as you advocate for. Interestingly I don’t expect to have much of a problem as at 42,000 kms there is no indication of degradation with only a few superchargings and home charging to only 80%. 2021 Model 3 LR.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

means fewer EV's on the road. Battery chemistry improves quicker than sales numbers of EV's. Current buyers are still pioneers & should accept that risk. DPF's/EGR valves screw up your ICE engine & Turbo, but people still buy them & don't know how to treat a diesel with eco-cr4p fitted. Same story with EV's, but new chemistry will make these issues vanish, while DPF/EGR continue to ruin ICE engines but it's "the way you're driving it"....

[@grahamoldfield3871]

@@dougphillips239 It could be done in the with a slight size increase of about 12mmm 1/2 inch in height if needed but as batteries are improving in energy density it may already be possible

[@robertt1336]

Absolutely impressive 👍 💯

[@ulf5738]

Yes impressive propaganda. Experience from Norway with Model S the last 10 years is the complete opposite.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@ulf5738 we all know current battery chemistry is adversely affected by cold & severe heat. Try harder, or wise up on battery care.

[@willeisinga2089]

I wait for NIO SwapNGo Stations in the EU. Never Battery Degradation. SwapNGo Stations Fast and Furious.👍👍👍

[@kazi7728]

Well degredation will be paid by Nio then instead the custumor

[@stevenanderson9660]

@@kazi7728 the customer always pays, swapping is more costly than just charging.

[@paulhailey2537]

OF COURSE THERE IS

[@adisurd]

I think NIO will go bankrupt before you will see a swapping station near you.

[@willeisinga2089]

@@adisurd NIO has Swapstations realised already in Nederland. NIO Works with Vandebron Clean Energy SolarParks in Nederland to Charge Batterys and stabilise the Net. And make Money with Solar Power. and Works with LeasePlan Electric Car Lease. China State Supports NIO Battery Swap Technic. That is a Lot of Money for NIO. China Brains, China Money. Will be a Big Succes. I have a Deal with A journalist to go to Spain Costa Blanca from Groningen Nederland with NIO Car and Battery Swapp All the Way. 2500 km Going, 2500 km Coming. For Breaking News, Newspapers, TV and Social Media. Will be a Party. Wait and See.🙂👍☀️☀️☀️🎶🎶

[@shafir2info]

You should keep in mind that a smaller battery not only requires more charging cycles for the same kilometers, but also : - the discharge current for the same driving style will be higher, which also leads to an additional reduction in capacity - the smaller battery is more likely to be colder in the winter at night, and lack the capacity to keep warm, which can also lead to faster degradation. So making EVs with smaller batteries, as early GM, Nissan, etc. did, was a very strange idea, not only because of the range problem, but also because of the huge degradation problem. So only Tesla and even early Chinese EVs were created with good intentions, imho.

[@kerkiraz]

At this rate it will be interesting to see planned obsolescence creeping into this technology.

[@jebes909090]

Just dump em in the ocean and buy a new one

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

And, petrol ICE cars do not become obsolete after 15 years?

[@jonahbert111]

I looked at a map of Tesla charging stations near me. There are none near where I normally drive. So, On longer trips, If I needed to recharge even a little, it would be a significantly longer trip compared to gasoline fill up, just to get to a charge station. Before even considering an electric, keep this in mind. If I had a 300 mile range, the real range is only 150 or less, because I need to get back home. For a lot of people, this is nuts.

[@joergmaass]

You are aware that you can charge at other stations, too, right? You are not limited to Tesla's charging stations...

[@adisurd]

The smallest range of any Tesla is the Model Y RWD LFP car sold in Europe and China. It has a real world range of 215 miles (real world and not rated). Current weather where I live is averaging 50F and I get about 220 miles of mostly highway driving (small country, driving in any direction for over 1.5 hours means either the sea shore or land border to another country, so any drive of over 15 minutes usual takes me to roads with speed limits of 50 mph or more) I am charging once in 5 days to 100 percent (tesla recommends doing that for LFP batteries) Long road trips are easier here in Europe. Average distance between superchargers here in NL is about 25 minute drive but gets more difficult in Central Europe. But then there are non tesla superchargers as well.

[@OtisFlint]

If you're in the US, every major highway will have a charge station at least every 50 miles. It's part of the infrastructure package. I can't drive 100 miles in any direction without passing 4-8 chargers, so where you live makes a huge difference.

[@adisurd]

@@OtisFlint I understand USA is much bigger and at places much sparsely populated than mainland Europe (generalizing here). 50 miles between two superchargers is the WORST CASE in Netherlands, and that is only talking about Tesla Superchargers and ignoring the others

[@jonahbert111]

@@OtisFlint I am in the US. And that is great if one likes / wants / typically drives on the Interstate. I don't.