Why Demoman is respected, and Junkrat is hated

[@mackenzieray5252]

"if I was a bad demoman, I wouldn't be here discussing it with you now would I?!"

[@JustAJosuke]

"Not one'a you's gonna survive dis!"

[@dacomputernerd4096]

"One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorite, one errant TWITCH! and ka-blooie!"

[@candlestone5397]

I am a bad demoman. Thats why I grabbed a giant Axe and became a good DemoKnight!

[@nicothiel1709]

​@@JustAJosuke first: LAAASSSS DO-ITTTT

[@nicothiel1709]

​@@dacomputernerd4096 * excesive drinking * * more exesive drinking *

[@zerobasedgod9291]

everybody talk about how easy demoman is until they play him and suddenly have multiple bad games back to back

[@mrgodzillaraptors8632]

It’s easy in the sense that pyro is easy. sticky’s are extremely spam-able, and most of the time are a good way to kill enemies, but leave you vulnerable when you run out. Pyro can hold down the m1 key and kill a ton of classes relatively quickly and very easily, but literally any distance outside of your range leaves you pretty much outclassed. It’s only when you put a little thought into how you use them, that the skill ceiling becomes effectively endless.

[@adwadswadsda8458]

Demoman IS easy, the first time i played him i became energized by how op he was, and had a great time. But tbh most characters in tf2 are easy. Not every game needs hard characters to play. Tf2 is essentially low skill floor high skill celling.

[@jucathedog]

​@@adwadswadsda8458no, he is not easy, you can sense that sometimes, but when you play a lot of times, you start to realize that the projectile direction is not what it should be, so you need to think carefully before start launching pipe frenades

[@kamrenwilliams2103]

I struggled with demoman when i first started. Now ima god

[@bambampewpew32]

THIS IS JUNKRAT TOO LOL

[@An_Ian]

I recall a rap song of Demo vs Junkrat and I think one of demo's lines in that sums it up perfectly "If I'm your blueprint why aren't you an improvement."

[@jinzo6453]

Ah JT Music, my favorite nerdcore rapper

[@trixex1443]

"Your a lightweight and a nuisance, with a sidekick who thinks your useless"

[@jinzo6453]

@@trixex1443 "The outback taught you survival skills. But your not built for fighting! If your so rich then where'd you get your weapon, dumpster diving!? (yep)"

[@trixex1443]

@@jinzo6453 "Now were talking since you actually set that standard. beware the dangers of radiation, wait? YOU ARE THE CANCER!"

[@hanzclauderamziese.daldal49]

Now we're talking trash since you actually set that standard! (Rubbish!)

[@piefighter36]

Honestly it's super funny when you airblast a single pipe and the demo realizes it's over and just stares at you in total shock.

[@ChucktheSpicyChicken]

I respect a Pyro who has better pipe aim then I do.

[@elfasto2255]

it's never shock, it's shame...

[@jeremypanjaitan4039]

demomans spamming m2 when the pyro spams m2

[@patr1ckexe]

At this point i usually try to high five pyro and make peace

[@booyah344]

THE BURNING YOU FEEL!​@@elfasto2255

[@malsypright]

"they'll hafta bury what's left of ya inna SOUP CAN!"

[@gegu937]

Ohhhhh Theyre gonna have to glue you back together! IN HELL!

[@cristhianmlr]

FREEDOM

[@dekoldrick]

Imagine if I hadn't been drunk!

[@acolus3413]

Demoman is a black man but Valve make him grew up in scottland in the whitest Area of the Planet possible and him expressing that culture is such a genius humorous twist. Demoman in my experience has never had any negative racial stereotype comparing to other African characters that i have seen. Even on places like 4chan love him as a character. Who ever design and write him is a genius.

[@Kolukie]

SCOTLAND FOREVER!

[@PelemusMcSoy]

The closest they ever got to acknowledging that is him saying he's a black, Scotish, cyclops, and that they got more ------ than they got of him. That's it. Otherwise, he's a drunk, grenade throwing, sword wielding, multiple dozens job holding guy that clearly loves what he does. He's a character and person first.

[@Kolukie]

@@PelemusMcSoy more sea monsters in the loch of ness That’s the bleeped line

[@Finn_the_Cat]

They got more fecken sea monsters in the great loch a' ness than they got the likes of me ​@@Kolukie

[@PelemusMcSoy]

I always thought it had something to do with hamsters as well. But thanks for filling me in, lads! Scrumpy for all!

[@dantepizza6310]

Just remember, Demoman loves his mother and tries hard not to disappoint her. Thats the biggest reason anyone shove prefer demoman.

[@diba9281]

Not all mothers deserve love, some are abusive and do the bare minimum or straight up neglect

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Best Boy ever. 😊

[@caretotryagain4180]

Also, junkrat has a voice line where he says “look at me mum. I’m on fire!”, when he is on a kill streak

[@Literally___Me]

They both love their moms

[@TheCakePastor]

“If I’m your blueprint, why aren’t you an improvement. You’re a light weight and a nascence with a sidekick who thinks your useless” - Junkrat vs Demo man JTmusic I still find it funny that this was known by JT long before now “The Outback taught you survival skills but you’re not built for fightin, if your so rich, where’d you get your weapons dumpster divin?”

[@PelemusMcSoy]

Is he still doing music? I haven't listened to him a long time.

[@StolenNikotine]

Demon man 👹👹👹

[@illyanesterenko8930]

@@PelemusMcSoy yeah, he's doing a lot of music still.

[@Springtrap11556]

"(Yep!) Now we're talking trash, since you actually set that standard. Beware the dangers of radiation. Oh wait you are the cancer!"

[@TheCakePastor]

@@Springtrap11556 “my livers in better shape then you and I drink as much as you weigh time two! (Oooh) “Not so bloody cocksure now, so head on home to junker town, ooh that right you got locked out!”

[@akend4426]

Ironically, I could see Demo and Junkrat getting along pretty well together.

[@davidhong1934]

Wasn't there that scene from Winglet's TF2 vs Overwatch animation on which the two were sharing drinks and abusing friendly fire?

[@akend4426]

Yep

[@Springtrap11556]

I can definitely see that! Plus they're both missing a leg! (Demo's peg leg)

[@TextualDeviant]

I think they'd be good friends at first but eventually get on one another's nerves, as Demoman is a genuine professional while Junkrat just cobbles together what he can find lying around, and they might get offended at a comparison.

[@runedoom]

​@@TextualDeviantyou say that, but the demos best mate is the soldier who uses the beggars bazooka.

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

I love these kinds of objective analysis of game design. I didn't know Junkrat rollers hit for full damage. That is dumb lol.

[@bambampewpew32]

If they roll directly into you yeah, I thought that's kinda expected to he honest lol, splash damage falls off really fast though

[@ChucktheSpicyChicken]

Hello doctor.

[@KelltheTitan]

@@bambampewpew32 Demoman's pipes used to work like that too, but like the video pointed out it was frustrating to fight against. So the pipes now only do full damage on a direct hit, and if it bounces before hitting someone the damage is reduced. They are still a threat, but he won't be two shotting someone from around a corner or across the map.

[@bambampewpew32]

@@KelltheTitan oh dang l

[@LinteirSomeZebra]

Technically, in Overwatch explosives have *On Target* damage and *AoE* damage, so: * If roller hit you directly after 1-3 bounces - it will deal full damage being *On Target + AoE* * However if roller just explodes near you - it will deal *AoE* damage with distance based damage falloff Also devs nerfed this AoE radius a few months ago (and also size of projectile itself): after 1 (or 2, I forgot) bounces the radius reduces by 40%. So Junkrat rollers' damage is almost as minuscule as Demoman's. But both of them still can deal decent damage by AoE to the neighbors of the hit target.

[@theluckiestllama5750]

See here's the thing. Both Demo and Junkrat can be incredibly fun. I love to play Junkrat! The difference is simple. TF2 players are usually chill, with some exceptions. Most are just there to have a good time and shoot some bad guys. Overwatch players hate the concept of fun. Edit: The rage bait in the replies is hilarious

[@BlueBD]

Pretty easy to tell when majority of TF2 matches involves doing everything to Never play the Objective and turn every match into a Death match for as long as possible, while Overwatch is PTFO or get banned. Also no maining, or get banned too.

[@theluckiestllama5750]

​@@BlueBD Not to mention the difference between the two in terms on "one man army" stuff. In TF2, its the norm. Everyone is sorta doing their own thing. In Overwatch, it's the exception. Something as simple as a double or triple kill can change the course of a fight. Both classes are VERY good at this, especially Junkrat with his ult

[@PrinceEomer8102]

Good news! As a Junk main, I do not play competitively. I actually do play OW to have fun, and if I lose idgaf, I had fun

[@SkunkfapGaming]

@@PrinceEomer8102based

[@lanterns_glow]

TF2 ctf matches can devolve nto full Rancho Relaxo Engies or Katzotsky kicking, people fuck around. OW meanwhile yells at you for being goofy

[@MuuToo]

Saying Demoman is respected is such a weird spin on it as someone who remembers how much Demomen would be accused of brain dead sticky spam in the past, and even to this day.

[@dashua1735]

For this reason, I feel like OP is just screaming "OW bad TF2 good", which most people (including me) would agree. I think the video should be titled "Why I respect Demoman more than Junkrat" because the general consensus in the TF2 community is that Demoman is a braindead spam class - not a label the community would give to a "respected class".

[@thahrdworkingingo]

It's because there's a wide variance in demo man play. I'd say he's just known for being blatantly overpowered than just sticky spam. Around launch and for years after? Absolutely. People were throwing the term "win bombs" like it was going out of style. These days it's only really an issue if they have a kritz medic pocketing him and he's actually good. And most demo don't even use the sticky bomb launcher in casual servers so in and out of game the complaints aren't really that frequent. Does it happen and does it suck? Yeah, then people break out the sticky spam complaints. But I til they are seeing it mid match, people usually don't say a word. Once you get past how strong a class with 2 primaries is... He's just a crazy skill expressive class with his grenade launcher being VERY punishing on both ends and having options like the loose cannon at his disposal.

[@Just_a_Dragon69]

The only thing you can be angry about a demoman is spam, and being honest, even soldier is worst in that category

[@thelordofthelostbraincells]

Doesn't soldier have something like a rocket launcher that can hold up to 8 rockets and fire them like his rocket launcher is automatic?

[@johnanderson3559]

@@thelordofthelostbraincellsyes but its damage is neutered compared to stock launcher

[@thelordofthelostbraincells]

@@johnanderson3559 alright. But what about the beggers bazuka? You load 3 rockets and spam out 3 rockets.

[@johnanderson3559]

@@thelordofthelostbraincells it has negative accuracy as the rockets go where they want instead of where your aiming. To quote a ginger “ How are you gonna dodge the rockets if the soldier doesn’t know where its going”

[@thelordofthelostbraincells]

@@johnanderson3559 when I was typing out the last comment, my brain automatically played that video in my mind. Fking love [audio craftsman] ! 🤣🤣🤣

[@IBW_3000]

Demo: Alcoholic Bomb Chucking Caber Pelting Sword Swiping Pep Leg Wearing Flying Black Scottish Cyclops - Fawful’s Minion Junkrat: Boring evil laugh

[@VickieRainey-v7y]

Ok I'll accept he's bad and that I'm bad but he is everything but boring and that includes my favorite goofy laugh he does

[@revoltaiignoto3881]

*Nicholson's Joker wannabe

[@FutileStruggleofaBoulder]

you forgot -has a living eye that can fight

[@metaknightkpers]

​@@FutileStruggleofaBoulder get back inside the panopticon.

[@Rose-85]

Nah Junkrat's personality is the entire reason i decided to main him in the first place He doesn't have a lot going on like Demo but what he does have is great, I'm pretty sure he's the character i have the most voice lines for because they are all great

[@gamerguy6942]

“If I were a bad demoman, I wouldn’t be sitting here, discussin it with ya now would I?” - Not Junkrat

[@PseudoGuido]

overwatch really is a blame simulator at mid ranks and the skill ceiling is so unbelieveably high tf2 makes you smile even when you get blown up because funni i recommend tf2 for depressed people from personal experience with team arena shooters

[@ireallydontknow278]

Personally the reason I think TF2 players have more fun Is because even as a bad player You can still easily kill the top of top tier players due to sheer luck (and no I'm not talking about random Crits here ) In overwatch the worse player might win once or twice But overall will perform way worse against the really good player Like I've been able to hold myself against some real good players in TF2 In overwatch if I was to go against a top 500 player They would 50-0 me every time

[@ItchyBurritoMiniAltThingy]

Tf2 community sucks hard too tho wdym

[@maksimslavik6844]

If Demoman TF2 was a bad Demoman he wouldn't be in this video and you discussing why everyone respects him would you?!

[@modman287]

The fact that you can die as junkrat and still get a multi kill says enough....

[@scrufflesde-brickashaw333]

Youll only die to it if you have 0 awareness of whats happening around you

[@dazth3legend670]

my guy plays another game it seems, didn't know there was another game with a junkrat

[@Watching_the_World_Burning]

I MEAN... Demoman can do so too.

[@bambampewpew32]

If ur in the lowest of the low rank lol

[@fokionleile7662]

​@@Watching_the_World_Burning By rollers?

[@SandwichGamesHeavy]

0:15 ROCK AND STONE BROTHA! DRG Engineer and the TF2 one are the only ACTUAL engineers in hero (class-based) shooters

[@shafikkrisoondatt4002]

It legit hurts me how little actual Builder characters there are, Torb and sym had potential but they just made em boring

[@SandwichGamesHeavy]

@@shafikkrisoondatt4002 Agree. I guess you need to be creative to make a great engineer character

[@justatankwithinternetacces8338]

WERE RICH

[@derpikyu9262]

WE'RE RICH

[@Wolvenworks]

I’m more surprised we haven’t had a TF2-DRG collab yet.

[@Weedsm0kr79]

if he were a bad demoman, we wouldn't be sitting here discussing him now would we

[@BlairSpace623]

Demoman sticky spam being the 2nd most consistently infuriating thing behind a good sniper to deal with on TF2:

[@Watching_the_World_Burning]

Incorrect, the second would be a good sniper. Followed by those blasted backstab spies rocking a kunai.

[@BlairSpace623]

@@Watching_the_World_Burning True; all 3 of those suck to play against.

[@darkmewmewsans5481]

You forgot the vaccinator, and the natasha, maybe the phlog

[@no-legjohnny3691]

Every class has a _"that guy"_ play style. For Scout, it's typically the Force-a-Nature sweats. For Soldier, it's easily the Black Box & Conch "I can't play soldier well without a pocket up my (redacted)" loadout. For Pyro Phlog and Scorch Shot. Demoman is usually sticky spam or demoknight sweatlords. Heavy is hard to hate, but when you do, the Natascha is usually involved. Engineer is usually a pain in the nuts when you have the hyper aggressive mini-sentry spammers. Medics that only pocket someone with a Kritzkreig or Vaccinator are a nuisance to everyone. But by far the worst offenders have to be the no-lifer Sniper and Spy mains specifically because of the ability to one-shot you under any circumstance short of a stock Über. I have never had my fun in TF2 killed faster than having one of those types on the server.

[@hoonhur5681]

At least spy can be countered by keeping distance and staying aware. With sniper, you are just screwed if they're cracked, even more so if they equip the tunnel vision 3000(Any of the backpack secondaries)

[@SeisoYabai]

1:17 Were leaving that take in, huh?

[@glowdonk]

I like Junkrat as a character, he's fun to play but he is in a game where fun isn't allowed and that you are forced to play by your team's strict rules

[@possumwithacowboyhat5140]

He does FULL damage from behind safety of cover, has a 2.5 second hard CC Root, a one shot combo that can be used twice in succession, soft CC from literally every attack and the least skillful ultimate in the game. But the rest of the team doesn’t allow fun? This is the antithesis of fun.

[@PUMPKIN-MAN2491]

​@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 you clearly don't play overwatch much, but that's okay I hate the game too

[@ItchyBurritoMiniAltThingy]

@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 least skillful Ult? Forgetting Soldier 76 tbh?

[@icyatlasartworks]

​@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 ...the killable low health tire is the least skillful ultimate in a game where you can be given wall hacks, aimbot, or complete immortality and a free respawn? I hate OverWatch just as much as the next guy, but that's a massive stretch.

[@BeyonderStar]

"why Demoman is respected" meanwhile- "sticky spammer!" after the Demoman uses 2 fucking charged stickies and nothing else

[@wantzoom]

I'm a junkrat main. But I don't play overwatch very often. Going for air shots actually gets a decent bit of respect from other players because it's hard to hit. I get the spam part but he can easily be outmatched by a lot of characters. I'm not switching mains though

[@gamertelt9841]

Saying that Demo does not get hate is a little crazy, if you consider that Sticky Spammers exist, takes like 0 skill and you just get free wins with that.

[@The_Chillton]

True but the hate TF2 classes get is waaay different than the hate Overwatch classes get.

[@CidCDdrafts]

Exactly, demo gets hated by spergs like you. Learn how to close the gap.

[@Goldstandard_1]

Demo has a lot of different playstyles that are not as annoying. Sticky spam is annoying when you're on the other team, but it is an overly viable strategy, junkrat (one of my favorite characters in the game for being similar to demoman) is just an annoying enemy to be fighting no matter what their doing, he also suffers from not having much other playstyles to begin with

[@nev2221]

@@Goldstandard_1 skill issue ngl and they're way different games anyway

[@CollinFerguson-l7e]

Just play bonk scout and run past him

[@yetispaghetti5754]

I feel like a lot of the comparisons in this video forget how Overwatch is balenced a lot differently. Comparing Hanzo to a Huntsman Sniper for example: Hanzo is able to climb walls, in OW2 he’s able to double jump, he has a sonar arrow that allows you to see enemies through walls, he has Storm Arrows (or Scatter-Arrow in the good old days), and he can occasionally send a giant dragon through the map. Huntsman Sniper relies mostly on his Melee, secondary equip, and in this case his bow. Neither is really much better or worse in their respective game, but you are comparing the way they are without acknowledging that they are designed for much different games. I still think Overwatch is a much more flawed game, but I don’t think Junkrat specifically is the problem. If you were around for 2016 Overwatch Junkrat wasn’t really a problem, and nothing much about his kit has changed since then. The problem is a lot more to do with things like 5v5, Blizzard adding more characters then they know how to balence, Power Creep, and the biggest one imo is the one you talked about a bit, Counterplay. If your gonna critisize Overwatch, it might have been better to talk about the actual deep-rooted problems. Cause even if they Nerf Junkrat into the ground the game will still be in an awful state💀

[@LukeMP2008]

0:46 so basically Junkrat is the pyro of Overwatch.

[@prttytired]

are most of the mains furries?

[@LukeMP2008]

@@prttytired Idk, probably.

[@Alex_Fishman]

@@prttytired I mean, rats do have fur

[@TheWeirdestClover]

pyro is better

[@LukeMP2008]

@@TheWeirdestClover Every tf2 class is better then all the Overwatch heros.

[@grom4818]

don't think so. junkrat traps don't instantly murk people. stickies do.

[@xidyl200]

This is the first video of yours I've come across and on first hearing your voice I was like "this person sounds like fishstick and thewhat fused together"

[@superepicdudemccraft5076]

HE DOES 💀💀💀

[@maridomi8303]

Having played both games, the hate that Junk gets only happens in low ranks (bronze to silver) where players move in straight lines and are super close to eachother, making playing Junkrat very effective, in higher ranks you rarely see a Junk and those few are the type of player that airshot you out of the sky, roughly the same happens with Sombra. Having played as, with and against good and bad Junk players I don't really feel any hatred towards him, but I find him mildly annoying, but so is Demo so I guess it balances it out.

[@firstnamelastname9237]

Yeah…in qp I’ve seen people walk straight into enemy fire with no tank. Even by gold people are (usually) at least somewhat more competent at handling him. I see more mockery of sombra or pharmercy.

[@Ribbons0121R121]

The mostly open long range of overwatch brings up a good point about its flaws, it’s either wasted space or immediently a death zone depends on classes, which results in very unbalanced gameplay Tf2 knows a big open area is hard in a game like this and reserves it for specially designed areas around that It’s a small thing but make a cramped overwatch map and it might be a teeny bit more fun

[@engineergaming3830]

17:30 it's REALLY hard to do anything significant to a junk as a sombra as long as he can turn around shift and right click

[@bobbydazzler2960]

tbf it's pretty hard to do anything significant to lots of classes in overwatch and tf2, the moment you play a demoknight against a pyro who remembers there's two buttons on a mouse it's over...

[@danolantern6030]

@@bobbydazzler2960 not necessarily. you can trimp them, you can ambush them, or you can have a teammate. its tf2 afterall. cant really comment on junkrat since i dont play ow.

[@bobbydazzler2960]

@@danolantern6030 I dunno, one even somewhat competent pyro can completely shutdown a decent demoknight

[@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87]

​@@bobbydazzler2960 good ways to deal with pyros as demoknight 1- run away 2- run towards him and charge as soon as he airblasts you away. But seriously, thats konda good pyro is the only class that is good against demoknight without any setup and demo gets fire resistanse, so its pretty fair in my opinion.

[@bobbydazzler2960]

@@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87 1.scorch shot 2.either bait out the charge and airblast during then or just spam airblast

[@stopmotionyoutuber4599]

When Overwatch first came out, his grenades used to hurt him, i think so did his mines, but I can't remember

[@noahedenborg4221]

Nades yes not the mine

[@InkyGhoul]

I mained Demoman and Junkrat in all 3 games (TF2, Overwatch, Overwatch 2) and I have to say, people overly complain about Junkrat's rollers. The reason I say this is because teamwork is much more important in Overwatch than TF2. Junk has many more weaknesses than Demo has, and many more counters, such as the tank caring about his existence. If your tank is a shield tank and decides to defend their squishies whilst they attack the Junk, he HAS to retreat. But in uncoordinated games where the enemy team is scattered about, Junkrat reigns supreme, picking off rogue DPS and Support players until their Tank is left alone.

[@TheProphetOfThePan]

Character wise are think both are rather interesting, one side we have the drunken black scottish cyclops, with a haunted eye socket. And the other we have the australian maniac adrenaline junkie with basically no sense of self preservation

[@DakkaScrappa]

to add to it his blood is so alcoholic that they even make the blood sucking robots drunk

[@johnswizzle4442]

Man I really wanted to watch this, I couldn't understand half the things you said my brotha

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Been a while since I played either game, but one big thing I remember is Junkrat was generally seen as ineffective for the objective and pretty good at feeding enemy ults. He does a lot of damage without getting kills. That and the nature of being able to do so by simply spamming attacks. Yes, Junkrat build his ult that way, but the same goes for the enemies. Demoman on the other hand is effective, has effective point hold and mobility options, and then obviously the whole demoknight subclass

[@FlyingScott]

Man this comment section has NOT let that one-sided 2016 beef go lmao Also, whilst I disagree with the grand majority of your points, I do notice you struggle to get your words out. Maybe try talking a bit slower or scripting shorter sentences, because at times you either talk so fast or are so audibly out of breath that it is nigh impossible to make out what you are saying.

[@Porkey_Minch]

Skip to 19:35 for the answer to the title.

[@zalanmarkus4939]

If someone dies to Junkrats death granades that is a genuine skill issue

[@noahedenborg4221]

It's surprising how people forget about them

[@danielsurvivor1372]

5:06 It's interesting you bring this up because I think one of the many reasons TF2>OW(one other big reason is how satisfying 1v1s are, when you encounter enemy you both most likely do a lot of dmg, but can negate some by juking, add on top requirement to aim and it's peak) is because we have less spam, it's only reserved when you're inside spawn and I mean, you do need spam to protect yourself from spawncampers, and if you have engies setting up. But OW, on top of cluttering the vision with so many visuals, also promotes so much spam, it's nuts y'all tolerate it, even our Halloween event, scream fortress, has less clutter with spell spam then OW 😅

[@scrittle]

"TF2 doesn't have spam" _Dustbowl would like to have a word_

[@shrimpchris6580]

Always thought infinite ammo in that game was a mistake, even back in 2016

[@The_Milk_Man8658]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@scrittletbf on dustbowl it’s kinda fun to just turn your brain off and spam down the chokepoints

[@The_real_batman7]

Overwatch vs tf2 in the big 2024 is OUTSTANDING work

[@TheRealDeclou]

It's always funny when I see someone who clearly doesn't play junkrat talk about junk rat saying "you don't need to aim" when junkrat is probably the most complex dps and you have to use your head instead of just shoot shoot shoot and from your gameplay you don't do anything a junkrat main dose your not diving or trapping or he'll even playing with a brain casein point standing in front of a rein with shatter

[@badasscrusader]

Im 90% sure this person is duning Krueger themselves into thinking they know what there talking about or there grifting for views because the tf2 children are the one group on the planet that hate overwatch more then the playerbase of overwatch

[@Yeetus_Mageetus]

was your nose clogged when you recorded this?

[@demomangaming6999]

I think personally what makes demo such a preferable character over junkrat is merely just the fact that he has weaknesses to close range. It’s honestly part of the reason I enjoy demo so much. When I’m in a close range fight it feels like I’m the underdog in it, which makes winning close range engagements feel great.

[@Windowmeiker]

19:35 was NOT expecting that 💀

[@Maxi-Gonz.]

Only Soldier (and maybe Spy) get the N-word pass.

[@Toku-k1c]

Idk if you’ve played tf2 lately but everyone hates that demo who clears servers & then spawn camps

[@yikebot_5525]

The main thing that balances explosive classes is the fact that the player can hurt themself if they aren't careful with y'know... *bombs.* It's especially frustrating since junkrat has a ton of details on his avatar that show self-damage from his bombs.

[@sealseal2124]

0:14 ROCK AND STONE

[@ricefarmer-kr4yv]

Did i heard rock and stone ?

[@JustAPrettyCoolDude]

WE'RE RICH

[@justatankwithinternetacces8338]

MUSHROOM

[@georgevasilopoulos5359]

THERE IS GOO IN THE SACK

[@MusingSprite3045]

I just find it weird that Junkrat is wearing worn cloth and is immune to his own explosions, but Pharah is wearing a military battle suit and isn't immune to her own explosions.

[@DraterTTV]

The point of Overwatch is to strategically swap characters to make the game more difficult for the enemy. Being a one trick is a bad thing in Overwatch. So one tricks get punished HEAVILY not only by the games design, but by players too.

[@Thispersonisreal]

to counterpoint self damage in demos and junkrats case, junkrat not getting self damage from his explosions is more fair, as unlike tf2, overwatch has tanks which can just get close to junkrat and let him kill himself with his own explosives, and there are plenty of tanks that can easily get close to him he used to have self damage, but then the character was genuinely dogshit to play because his counter was "get close to him as a tank" don't get me wrong, i understand why you brought this up, but tf2 doesn't really have tanks, heavy may tank just 1 more shot of demoman, but he is no tank, he's frontline because he can output damage for a long time, and he is the slowest class in the game just to add

[@arathoras12]

It's the problem of game, not the hero. Game dynamics in OW doesn't work like it does in TF2. You put Demoman in OW and he would 100% get the Junkrats "no brain spamrat" treatment.

[@Felipe-yv4bc]

Demo was despised pre sticky launcher nerf circa 2014, rightfully so. It's still easily the strongest class bar medic, just on the edge of overpowered.

[@h8thegr8]

5:37 “But can you guess who?” Roadhog.

[@chainsawplayin]

The thing with knockback in TF2 is that it's based on damage dealt, and every single weapon, even melee, if it deals damage, it deals knockback.

[@pooshiesty3338]

sure you can say junk is easier in qp but in higher comps he isnt a spam character, only really at choke points

[@hansshort9220]

Hmmm words anyways so demoman is better right?

[@nev2221]

yes tf2 better ow bad

[@1un4cy]

Reminds me of HotS genji leaping into a 1v5 and leaving with a pentakill.

[@bioticsla]

Mate he USED to take skill Now the most braindead of fresh installs can reliably hit directs

[@hobosorcerer]

@@bioticsla They increased the size of his grenades by a handful of pixels, friend. It's not that deep.

[@Icole-cv4px]

3:59 So that ricochet kill in Meet the Demoman wasn't a lie

[@uningenious]

It's also funny the trailer makes a nod to this at the bottom of the end card. "Disclaimer: All information regarding Demoman grenade behavior was obtained from Australians believed to be reliable at the time. It is submitted subject to the possibility of errors, omissions, or nerfing without notice."

[@reallybigshoe4297]

This fundamentally isn't a fair comparison. Junkrat may be more spammy than Demo, but he's not some unfair character that requires no thought or skill to play, and luck is a made up concept, which, even if it were a real factor, goes both ways. TF2 doesn't have a character like D.Va who can completely nullify all damage sent her way, or one like Baptiste that can prevent people from being killed with the press of a button, nor does it have any flying characters that a character like Demo would be near powerless to stop. In reality, the two games aren't comparable to each other, and this weird rivalry suggesting they are like two sides of the same coin is totally fabricated. OW and TF2 are ONLY similar in concept, and are completely different in execution. If everything about OW was the same, except Instead of Junkrat, it was Demoman, and he functioned exactly the way he does in TF2, people would hate him, he'd be too weak and everyone would be crying out for buffs and he just wouldn't fit. OW is different from TF2, and as such, the characters need to be different, and there's a lot more characters that need to be brought into consideration when balancing. And while I agree that the developers for OW are shitting the bed lately when it comes to balance decisions, I can't really fault them for it, it surely must be a complicated, time consuming and frustrating task.

[@grfrjiglstan]

And TF2 players complain about the Scorch Shot's little baby stun. I'm watching people getting batted around by Junkrat's grenades with mouth agape.

[@dandroid98]

Before I even start watching this, I'm going to say that demoman WAS NOT more respected than Junkrat. Sticky Launcher was OP as hell with how easy it was to land a hit before they neutered it with a damage ramp up time, and it still had 8 bombs in the clip. The Sticky bomb was effectively the Demo's primary weapon because it just dealt more consistent dmg than trying to land directs with pipes or doing measly dmg after a long delay with rollers.

[@xerinuspax6843]

My opinion on overwatch is that counter picking is the game. People that pick a main and don't branch out find themselves at a hefty disadvantage because they end up being unable to cope with counter picking, or even effectively synergize with their team, these people aren't fun to play with, and they aren't fun to fight.

[@pinguin4898]

I do like how consistent junkrat's grenade bounces are, they make for fun behind the corner ricochet plays

[@DBArtsCreators]

Demoman has been complained about in the TF2 community since the game came out, and is largely regarded as OP by a large chunk of the community. He's better than Junkrat in terms of design, but it's a lie to pretend the Demo is respected / flawless.

[@Star_Rattler]

idk man I love junkrat and I'm glad pros are finally picking him up. he almost never saw play professionally because he was regarded as a bad pick but now people see his potential and different playstyles. I think he's a funny funky dude and I like playing him and I don't think he's that awful to play against.

[@yuan713]

As someone whose been playing Overwatch since the first year, to make a video regarding Junkrat being "hated" is very misleading. Almost every character got hate or was popular to hate at one point. Junkrat like several other characters was just popular to hate at one point. There are other hated characters now.

[@undeadreborn4867]

"If I were a bad demoman, I WOULDN’T BE HERE DESCUSSIN IT WITH YA, now would I?!"

[@CertifiableGuy]

If he was a bad demoman, he wouldnt be here talking to ya.

[@backlashD]

How does hitting a direct shot require less aim? I'm confused.

[@alexm.a.d892]

One thing that's really dumb is that how junkrat's mines just launches you upward no matter their position, even if you're under them. As long as you're in their proximity you're launched upwards

[@ItchyBurritoMiniAltThingy]

Trolled

[@guywhoexists248]

Okay I haven't played overwatch since a few months before it became overwatch 2, so maybe sentiments have changed, but I don't remember any junkrat hate back in the day. I never really had a problem with him. Granted I was a roadhog main but I played a lot of healers too like Ana and still, I found him pretty easy to fight against. His high burst damage was hardly anything new and could be worked around. His trap was highly visible so it rarely got me. His ult felt pretty balanced, leaving him both safe and vulnerable in different ways. He never really felt like demoman at all. He's fundamentally different.

[@Hadeth_a_stepa]

Well yeah but no. Overwatch is a different game, with different phylosophy. TF2 is about individual reward for every player and a more independand gameplay. Overwatch is more about being a big blob together with your team, TF2 style grenade launcher in Overwatch just won't work. If you make the Overwatch grenadelauncher behave simmilar to tf2's grenade launcher will make is not very usefull. It's not the grenade launcher design that sucks, it's the game whole game design fundamentaly that sucks. Or i am just stupid and didn't understand the video.

[@badasscrusader]

No this vid is juat the typical ow bad tf2 good thats existed since overwatch's started

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

I played a bunch of Junkrat when Overwatch first came out, actually liked him, but could see how people hated him due to "spam" In truth maps at that time had multiple spots where Junk could safely hide away and lob his stuff over to a point/choke. But to be a more effective player I found it best to a point pusher into a roamer clearing out/preventing any backup from coming in. A friendly Tracer with Junkrat is a nasty combo if you're stuck in your spawn.

[@DrakonLameth]

Another fun bit about this comparison, is it doesn't count that the Demoman has alternates for all his weapons outside of the nod to the Sticky Jumper -- alternate pipe launchers focused on hitting the enemy (Loch n Load), skill of landing pipes and their explosions (Loose Cannon), or for the "carpet bomb their rough area" among us (Iron Bomber), or even forgo it for utility in the form of extra health (Bootlegger/Wee Booties) or airtime (B.A.S.E. Jumper) Alternate sticky launchers for mobility over traps (Sticky Jumper), to make the stickys a faster setup (Quickiebomb Launcher), or for more strategy focused use like counter-traps and multiple you can set off independent of one another (Scottish Resistance), with also having utility options in a semi-defensive charge with the assorted shields (one for big defense, Chargin' Targe, one for offensive slams, Splendid Screen, and one for unparalleled maneuverability, Tide Turner) Alternate melee options, consisting of a large amount of aesthetic variants for the main attack (a couple that turn the foe into a statue on death), a trio of long-reaching weapons that reduce starting life for movement speed and max health on kills with them (Eyelander/9-iron/Headtaker), a weapon for capturing objectives faster with a common-damage weakness baked in (Pain Train), a slow and high damage melee axe (Skullcutter), a high-damage explosive melee they have to resupply to regain the high damage on after the first hit (Caber), a katana that heals on kill but hurts you to put away if it doesn't get a kill if you want to swap off it (Half-Zatoichi), and two swords that play with the charge mechanics on the shields (Claymore that extends it, and the Persuader that refills on hit and on ammo pickups at the cost of mostly removing your ammo reserves and preventing you from refilling them until the charge is full) TL;DR -- Junkrat's just a bomb-tossing lunatic, but the Demoman's a walking arsenal with multiple distinct playstyles that includes several variations on "bomb tossing lunatic"

[@therefinedgentleman3671]

When you have 8 'classes' in your game you better have options. Junk is a niche pick in a game were there are about 30 characters to choose from. Not the same game, similar sure, but its weird to say junks inferior because you can't change the concussion mines into napalm mines. Two diffrent games, two diffrent (overall) design philosophy, and diffrent gameplay.

[@SyLuX636]

Junkrat has unlimted ammo and bomb hitboxes are massive. Thats enough for people to hate him.

[@adamperdue3178]

Junkrat's a fun character. He's a wild nutter who frantically runs around throwing bombs everywhere like a little rat. Overwatch is a different game from TF2, though (which is enough to make any TF2 player already hate him). He's spammy, yeah, but that's his schtick, and it works within the game, in a way that wouldn't work in TF2- which is why these sorts of direct comparisons don't really make sense in the first place. He's a genuinely fun (if annoying) character that just goes around having a blast. Him being a good character doesn't suddenly make Demoman a bad character, they can both be good characters.

[@notaclass-d1822]

probably because overwatch is a more competitive game, so any character/class that is seen as "powerful" or "weak" even if only in slight amounts to the others, they are hated or never used

[@The6thMessenger]

I think 1:1 comparison is unfair for both parties, as these characters are filling a niche for their own respective games.

[@ceu160193]

Demoman is very much generalist class in TF2, unlike Junkrat in Overwatch.

[@Psyche_TH]

@@ceu160193 Demoman is a staple of any good team but he's not really a generalist like soldier and scout are, he's very much a DPS focus. He is also one of the two only classes in the game with no ranged hitscan weapons at all (the other one being the medic but for obvious reasons they are not really in the same category) so he's pretty much the only class that gets totally denied by long range - not counting charged stickybombs which still take time to set up and can be seen coming. Everyone except sniper works best at close-medium range but if they have hitscan they can at least try to chip some damage at a distance. For the same reason he's also the class that gets countered by pyro the hardest, since the only way to fight is with projectiles that can be airblasted or with melee which puts the demoman into the pyro's preferred range (and the pyro can still airblast the demoman away if he gets too close). Demoman gets considered a generalist for having both damage potential and high mobility, but the cost of that mobility is higher than soldier or scout and is mostly reserved for rolling out of spawn - you can't reliably stickyjump in the middle of combat unless you're using the stickyjumper which throws away an enormous chunk of your damage potential. You also need to already know the healthpack locations on the map or have a medic healing you otherwise in the time you spend looking for health you could've just walked without jumping.

[@Zanthous_]

not really, ow took some tf2 character designs and made them terribly unfun and it's completely fine to discuss why in hopes we don't get more games designed as poorly as ow

[@badasscrusader]

​@@Zanthous_ salt

[@Zanthous_]

@@badasscrusader hated for speaking the truth

[@h8thegr8]

Cool video. Could you make a similar video to this one, where you compare and contrast Heavy (Minigun, Sandvich, and GRU) and Mauga? They’re two big guys who like to shoot their enemies with miniguns, can heal themselves, and have a means to get to the battlefield faster. And of course, the discourse between these two guys are vastly different between each other. It would be dope if you made this video.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Hearing that Demoman is respected is CRAZY, ya didn't play TF2 enough 😂. The only reason you'd get this impression is that Demoman mains are rare, and regular casual demomans or someone who switched to demo for defence or to counter engy are just not that good at sticky spam. And yes, an effective sticky spam does take some skill and thinking and when they do have a lil bit of both, it's kinda infuriating to fight and I can see why ppl complain about demomains

[@CatsycatPlays_frfr]

The ending is a W reason why demo is better

[@judgement7279]

good junk is annoying to play against because of how tight maps in ow and bad junk is bad to play with and in tf2 no one cares about outcome of the match, so thats actually all.

[@yanan3685]

No hate is meant by this but I struggle to take many of the ideas mentioned in this video into consideration when discussing junkrat vs demoman especially when you go back on your own points. There were several point that left me saying “but when it comes to demo that’s good?” For example you seemed confident that junkrats traps were annoying but then praised demos trap setup even though they cannot be seen if placed well and can insta kill. I’m not a junkrat player heck I don’t even play overwatch anymore but if something is a bad feature of a character you can’t praise the other for doing the same. Peace and love ❤

[@plat4663]

In tf2 a direct hit only does max damage if it directly hits. In OW it still does max damage if you come in contact with a roller. Not to mention OW has infinite ammo so there is no downside to spamming.

[@ItchyBurritoMiniAltThingy]

Some characters have counters to spam like Sigmas Kinetic Grasp and D.VAs Defense Matrix

[@mix3k818]

No offense, but I am struggling to understand what you're saying in the video. I don't understand some of the words.

[@Lucios1995]

Sod off I hate when a Demoman's uses his stickies in melee range

[@Karina-winsmore]

As certain older tf2 meme says, "Demoman takes skill!" but unironically.

[@kanerowan1534]

As someone who once played team fortress 2 on the orange box for PlayStation, all you need to do is spam sticky bombs at the door of enemy spawn

[@Karina-winsmore]

@@kanerowan1534 true, but console version is stuck at releave version of the game.

[@someguy9970]

I don’t really get this, a lot of people hate Demoman. Dying to sticky bombs isn’t fun lol.

[@onixoutlaw8310]

The thing that gets me the most about Jr is that everyone just swears he's so useless but I play against them constantly. One thing I know about multiplayer games most players don't pick characters for being difficult and unrewarding

[@Iknowtoomuchable]

I always loved facing Riptire as a Rein main. You hear the shout, and it's fucking go time. You have one chance to take that thing out with the Flameblast; if you miss, you die. It was always very exciting. Of course, this being Overwatch, I'm sure they unintentionally ruined this awesome dynamic with an update at some point.

[@ItchyBurritoMiniAltThingy]

No you can still do that., Trololo

[@icyatlasartworks]

Nope, that dynamic is still the same, difference is you have two chances to take it out instead of one.

[@TrixterTheFemboy]

I love that you used each game's font at 14:51 :3

[@wumbology72]

I do like that idea of grenades not exploding on contact after the first bounce, that imo would do wonders for how annoying junkrat is without hurting his skill ceiling much at all. Maybe the first bounce still explodes so you can bank shot off a wall. I will say junkrat at high elo is quite respected due to players actually knowing how to play around the spam, so he needs to get creative.

[@kennethsatria6607]

Is Junkrat hated? In what universe is Junkrat hated?

[@VickieRainey-v7y]

I'VE GOT AN IDEA! As a junk rat main yeah I agree I do hate playing him and I'm rubbish with him too but I like his design and voice so thats the only reason I main him

[@Conchobar907]

The real reason to play any video game: fun.

[@deliciouspotato2623]

“Yknow, I’m no dj but you can always count on me to spin that shhh…”

[@maniacalmurderer4123]

Both are bomb experts, comedians, and comically insane Only difference is that one is a Man and the other is a Rat

[@MyouKyuubi]

demoman is respected? Nonsense, sticky-spam is the most BS thing ever, JUST as bad as Junkrats double-mine spam, perhaps even worse. :P

[@clankfish]

real ones only use the grenade launcher

[@MyouKyuubi]

@@clankfish 100%

[@noahedenborg4221]

Nah People just get pissed by not knowing how to play against junk Random bomb hits traps I should know I've pissed a lot of people off lol

[@thatoneleaf9895]

Its simple why people hate Junkrat: He's a fun character that has an actually decent skill floor (unlike Genji, Orisa, Moira, or Mauga, who are all very much last resort picks or crutch picks for those who cant even trust their own skill level) Also Overwatch players are insufferable. Evidence: Me Junkrats just fun, and thanks to Vulture, a junkrat main, i've realized just how mobile and fun junkrat can be by just soaring through the air, also hitting prediction shots on enemies like pharah, echo, or tracer is like ectasy because it requires either extreme luck or extreme skill, and that line is defined by how often you accomplish the feat

[@noahedenborg4221]

He also pisses people off a lot Which is funni

[@tojimaru]

Really snuck genji in there and thought we wouldn't notice. And decent skill floor is most definitely a stretch lol. The only thing a new-ish junkrat might struggle with are flying enemies. Most maps and matchups are pretty streamlined so you can get away with just front lining and spamming.