TF2's Door Problem

[@ItzaLukkeri]

I find it funny how almost all of these problems are caused just by mappers using the smallest grid size

[@johnarbuckle6775]

Shounic be like

[@YippingFox]

Having no experience, wouldn't a larger grid lead to the same issues?

[@ItzaLukkeri]

@YippingFox No. The funny part about the small grid is that literally every single Hammer tutorial tells you not to use it often. Not using a small grid is like Hammer 101, but it's often easy to forget why. I've had problems with maps myself caused by a specific entity being 1 single unit too small.

[@BacenticFlam]

hammer editor grid size door

[@DRAGONFLAIR2008]

Every time the hammer editor is mentioned a source creator dies

[@lastknight244]

Yes I WILL watch a 15 minutes video about the doors in the Team Fortress 2 video game!

[@Ledplous]

Same

[@rgbatom5145]

Door enthusiast

[@KusanaG11]

Flashback to 3kliksphillip and dust2 stairs.

[@DeadMemeMan]

"They'll watch anything if it's TF2 related! Just watch."

[@wirelesslatte]

Oh yes an i will also LEARN ABOUT DOORS and HOW TO GET INSIDE ENEMY'S BASE during all these 15 minutes

[@IronBrandon22]

“The shutter doors here *do* get a bit quirky at night”

[@DrHundTF2]

I know exactly why the dustbowl door opens upside down. It happened to me. Look above it. Imagine the door’s size. It WILL go up and create an invisible wall on the roof. The ceiling isn’t big enough to hold the door inside. So we make it go down instead. Good thing they caught on that, because it’s hard to notice it if you playtest alone, I mean, who’s gonna open the door for you if you’re above ?

[@LEDs]

Wow, I’m surprised I didn’t think of that. Good observation!

[@DrHundTF2]

@@LEDs it’s the sort of things you only notice when it has happened to you.

[@tadziu2400]

I believe It did work like this in the past and they changed It to fix the invisible wall. No? Or It was just my dream?

[@DrHundTF2]

@@tadziu2400 from the wiki page on the map: March 5, 2014 Patch Fixed Red team's stage 1 spawn door pushing players in the air.

[@tadziu2400]

@@DrHundTF2 So everything is okay with me. Thank god

[@infamoushacker4chan883]

7:13 There's a check that happens every item Pyro attempts to use his flamethrower meant to prevent this from occurring. Standing inside a teammate causes the check to be disregarded and the particles spawn anyways. I think Shounic covered it at one point.

[@bakugo_v8]

Yep, if you stand inside a teammate, the trace check that is meant to stop the flamethrower from firing if it hits the world will hit the teammate instead of the world.

[@SparkyCas]

So it got confusd. Kind of just returning 0 type of situation.

[@caramelldansen2204]

*time 😊

[@_pancakes1734]

@@SparkyCas guessing but, i don't think it's getting confused. i think it sees a teammate and intentionally fires anyways to prevent close-by teammates eating your flames, just like how close by teammates don't block projectiles. They just forgot that there might be a wall as well as a nearby teammate. again, this is just a guess.

[@Vashzaron]

Reminds me of an ancient glitch that you could shoot people with the sniper rifle through doors if there was a teammate covering your shot

[@QuartetBaguette]

Why doesn't valve just hire this guy

[@Helgasonn]

Fr

[@scruggly_ahh_commenter]

@@Helgasonn get LED and shounic working for VALVe and the games problems will be fixed

[@cloudynguyen6527]

Valve doesn't take intern. They only hire people who have at least 10 years of experience in the industry. Yes, finding bugs and applying band aid to it is cool. But the only interns Valve took was the group of students who made the game that predated Portal. So you either need a lot of years of experience or introduce a product that Valve think worth to develop (think of the team behind Quake TF or Minh Le who created Counterstrike), then Valve might consider recruiting you.

[@WillenChan]

They busy on dedloc

[@picklekun]

Trouble at home? Add another visualizer. Trouble at work? Add another visualizer. Don't want the door to kill you? Add another visualizer.

[@XxguaxinimxX.]

If you haven't died to a spawn door in mercenary park, you haven't played TF2 the right way! 😂 Great video, dude!

[@JohnJones-mp3in]

dustbowl doors ☠️

[@Diamondbacc]

I like LED. He dosen't try to sound smarter than everyone else, makes good and informative videos, and isn't afraid to admit when he doesn't know something. Keep it up! 😊

[@LEDs]

Thanks for the very nice comment!

[@rokcris7313]

Bro threw shade at shounic

[@Mido_]

You should make a compilation (guide) of mistakes that map makers can make. So that when a new map maker wants to create a map, they know what mistakes to avoid.

[@shinobuoshino5066]

biggest mistake is believing that tf2 needs more shit maps when existing ones will never be fixed

[@ComparativelyRegular]

@@shinobuoshino5066 Get this man a true.

[@omppusolttu5799]

@@shinobuoshino5066 biggest mistake is presuming all mappers make maps specifically so valve includes them in the game (very unlikely)

[@shinobuoshino5066]

@@omppusolttu5799 why would you make a map and then publish it on steam if you aren't interested in making a map that will be scrutinized in public?

[@omppusolttu5799]

@@shinobuoshino5066 Community servers? Also someone might just enjoy making maps.

Most of this problems come from the fact their didn't use instances back then, a instance is like a piece of a map with props, triggers, door etc, so instead of making the same door over and over you make it to a instance and then just reference it all the times that you need it. And if you find a bug, change the instance and it gets updated to all the maps that use it(they need to be recompiled). Valve enforced instances when building Portal 2's maps, the puzzle's devices are also made from a bunch of different entities working together, if every time these get used the devs change some of them or have to make them from scratch these are more prone to develop problems.

[@Hombzy]

I think one of my favourite doors is upward blu forward spawn in the tunnel. The door brush opens upward, meaning if someone is in the tunnel segment above the spawn they collide with the door. In an open state it pokes about 40 units out of the ground.

[@sweglord227]

for the door launch section of the video (11:10), the func door likely moves down so players standing above the door wont get blocked while trying to walk through it while open. this is a problem in some other community maps, but is most notable above blue's 2nd spawn on upward. once the door is open, you cannot enter the side tunnel without crouch jumping over the door.

[@dreamwalking]

As someone who has been curious to get into mapmaking, thank you so much for this guide on how to let enemy players into spawn. I'm always disappointed when a map doesn't have at least one funny exploit you can do, so being able to make sure there's at least one on any map that I make really warms my heart.

[@LEDs]

LOL

[@mundanest]

I expect a detailed tier list on every TF2 door soon

[@awsomebot1]

Before Sketchek transitioned (into a vtuber) and deleted his videos, he had some videos explaining how overlapping with an entity (e.g. traffic cone, players) can "boost" your flames. That's probably why 7:14 happens.

[@TheGraySeed]

Sketchek become a vtuber? Got a name?

[@GrachiPlays]

@@TheGraySeed name is sonny brisko, pretty sure its confirmed to be him

[@bobbyferg9173]

Sketchek coming back from being "dead" to becoming a vtuber and deleting his old videos is like some monkey's paw horrific resurrection

[@awsomebot1]

@@bobbyferg9173 He visited Japan once and through this somehow convinced himself video games ruined his life, so he decided to fake his death in order to leave his youtube channel. Overall pretty degenerate behaviour so it makes sense he'd end up a vtuber.

[@dominikrni]

​@@awsomebot1how is that degenerate behavior

[@FalloutNewVegas10]

Only tf2 can have a such a entertaining design that you can spend 15 minutes TALKING ABOUT A DOOR

[@abe881]

Getting stuck in a automatic door is one of the funnier parts of tf2, second only to the door that kills you

[@jupiterbjy]

4:55 Love how heavy wastes no time punishing scout for existing

[@thothdj]

I think the hoodoo door may have something to do with the sign above it, maybe it has that wacky collision like some of the signs on upward, causing the door to ignore any players blocking it

[@zythe_]

the door on dustbowl isnt set to down because "valve didnt notice", its because otherwise the invisible door brush would clip through the top of the walkable area above the door, this is also why they used the animated prop instead of the parented one.

[@nexinex6049]

13:46 sounds like it could be a floating point issue. Try placing the door in the same worldspace coordinates as well

[@sheevpalps66]

I can recall like 3 different times where I've gotten stuck in that Badwater door. The worst of all is the defender doors on Swiftwater, I have gotten stuck in those doors a few times over the years.

[@dannytheocto2556]

I actually did not know about that door on Frontier permanently closing

[@blitzkrieg2928]

4:51 Trecherous Volvo literally unplayable now

[@Replyman1]

But enemies coming into your spawn is what makes TF2 funny

[@Axemunger]

Mercenary Park has the right idea, ever door should have the ability to kill you

[@thefairylovesniper]

LED is now like the 3kilksphilip of tf2

[@LEDs]

Hopefully all of my subs are also subbed to him!

[@LordRazer3]

10:59 do it on purpose and put up a sign that says "To be weary of the sentient doors. They take there vary job serious. They can not be reasoned with and are vary offended of people loitering."

[@cinnamoncat8950]

12:58 YO WHAAAT, I THINK I REMEMBER SEEING THAT HAPPEN. i think it either happened to me or i saw someone get stuck right in front of me, or maybe both happened in different games?

[@blacklight683]

Listen of the day: V I S U A L I Z E R

[@Beardqt]

One of my fondest memories of tf is the COUPON BUG and DOOR STUCK screaming from that era of youtube and tf2 so this is the best video ever

[@GolfinhoVoador]

10:04 I'm pretty sure I died without the enemy team having capped the first point once, it was pretty annoying..

[@pixelminer5880]

Something i learnt while using Hammer, with the RespawnRoomVisualiser, while it is a bit of a jankey fix (But lets be honest its hammer, of course it is), there's the Fit button when looking at the texture for the no_Entry that scales it to the size of the visualiser, it can end up looking weird for some doors but for spawnroom doors it looks relatively alright since it only scales up a small bit, that way you can put the visualiser to the size of the door and not have to worry about the issues of the taunts getting through

[@LEDs]

I don't use it for spawn doors because it fits both axiis, causing the horizontal to be stretched

[@pixelminer5880]

@LEDs yeah, that makes sense, it's partly why i mentioned it was a jankey fix, but it's just something I thought of

[@gmanplaysgames256]

what a state the TF2 community is in where 15 minute videos are being made about DOORS

[@Whiterabbit124]

This was really interesting! Having played tf2 for so long I always wondered why some of these things happen. Thank you, LED!

[@velikigospar]

I'm not even a mapper and I love your videos LED, keep it up!

[@CrashedFob]

doors have always seemed like a main problem in humanity to me. They are pretty much the only thing stopping us from evolving into better species and possibly gaining infinite knowledge. Thank you for making video, this is a great start. This video is just a start of the revolution against doors, it will go from doors in video games to doors in real life. #Antidoor!

[@blacklight683]

Door stuck door stuck

[@windowsvista3193]

I’ve seen people get stuck on that door on badwater

[@IceFlower22]

As a mapper, this is quite insightful, -and also fun to look at the maps that for one reason or another failed to create proper doors lol- but mistakes happen, so it's understandable

[@instasty]

"and covering additional things that arent in my shorts."

[@hackermanwannabe3031]

valve, hire this man.

[@whynotanyting]

"There's no reason the doors need to be this way" Yes, it's hilarious

[@helpsus]

That mercenary park death spawn door is like deathrun inserted into the vanilla game; nightmare fuel. Great video, very informative this should be a PSA for any map makers using hammer. I've only seen the hoodoo door glitch of players bounding boxes getting stuck in the spawn door at least once and I've been playing TF2 since 2013.

[@mr_flava]

for a moment I thought you were about to mention *that* door

[@bananashoplifter3440]

The one that shouldn't exist? Yea, same. Delightfully surprised that wasn't the case tho

[@dankmemester3398]

14:15 I discovered that myself a few days ago. The only purpose it could have is to have a stupid red teleport behind enemy lines, and make it harder to kill, because the door doesn't open. However the geometry above is a chokepoint, so I doubt it is viable.

[@KevinTheFluffyWolfy]

Hell yes, I’m gonna watch this all the way through. A 15 minute video about the doors in TF2, awesome.

[@truestbluu]

7:16 i think its because pyro's flame particles move with the player's velocity, and being inside of a teammate applies velocity towards the opposite lookvector between the players, which causes his flames to spawn further infront.

[@Tearcarlog]

After 65 million years in development, hopefully it will have been worth the wait.

[@Szaman810]

Ah yes, time to watch a video about a very specific mechanic in a game I haven't played in 10 years at 3 AM.

[@FearThePegasus]

Wish the community could hotfix the game with a little more freedom. Obviously not absolute power but have some verified community volunteers to hotfix the game. They fix things, submits them to The Eric, they approve the changes and it gets pushed to live.

[@Kavukamari]

i feel like they should try to make a template that's like "func_spawndoor" that includes all of these fixes and just replace all of the spawn doors in the whole game with the canned asset, just choose what kind of door it is (double, up, down, left, right) and its static model for animation, and everything else is just automatic (noentry protection, nobuild protection, open triggers, etc)

[@Rogue_Rouge]

13:40 maybe there's some floating point rounding thing that requires a specific position to trigger it

[@dropinota]

Ends with door stuck, a man of class.

[@faerdregon1230]

it feels i watched it before it even published

[@YellowDice]

The amount of nines in that damage for the door tells me that valve did not like working on merc park lol. Time to abuse that frontier door now.

[@Isythos]

On badwater the same thing that happens with that door can happen with the sign that pops up right near it. Got stuck in it many times.

[@Ellesiumss]

7:14 two people pushes eachother. It pushes pyro slightly inside wall, so it works.

[@notdukko4123]

Just finished a vid on the microwave popcorn button now I’m watching one about doors, amazing

[@LEDs]

I watched that video too 😛

[@Aelfraed26]

6:24 BLU's second spawn in Altitude, but only on the smaller side door.

[@Syamfprch]

It happens in camber aswell i think, of you go to 3rd BLU spawn as a RED you end up back in your spawn.

[@raphaelarctic]

Did 11:10 maybe happen as a bandage-fix because there was a glitch where attackers could block the door from opening by standing above it on the ledge? I can't fully remember that glitch but i remember there was something going on

[@LEDs]

Several others pointed out in the comments that if the door moved up first, then it’d poke through the ceiling. So it appears that Valve intentionally made it go down first.

[@MegapiemanPHD]

On dustbowl, the func_door moves down due to the roof above it being playable space. If it opened up, the func_door would become an invisible for anyone on the roof.

[@Audio_noodle]

i wonder if the teammate is necessary to push you closer to the wall for the pyro glitch, since walls typically have that push you a few hammer units away property

[@LRCorte]

I can see Valve devs watching this video and shivering thinking about the spaghetti code and the amount of work it would take to fix these problems

[@starmaker75]

Seriously I can image tf2's spaghetti code being as bad as smash bros melee of being buggy but somehow being very playable

[@halfsine]

the janitor has some real competition right here

[@Liminalpo]

First the stairs, now this? PREPOSTEROUS!!!

[@alexsp4853]

what about that you can get stuck on the direction signs with the arrows that roll up when a payload cart point is captured? on Badwater Basin, as soon as blue captures the second point, these arrows emerge from in between the concrete barricades. when you stay on top of them as blue captures you'll get stuck in them

[@LEDs]

There's a prop_dynamic (the sign) parented to a func_door (the wooden posts). When it rises, the prop goes through your bounding box and you get stuck

[@alexsp4853]

@@LEDs i am not smart. Could you rephrase that for me please ?

[@Q27Forever]

This guy can solve every tf2 valve problem

[@LEDs]

Nah, there are some things I can't explain. You'll see in the next vid

[@Q27Forever]

@@LEDslike why spy was in tf1

[@NecroBurt]

Finally a solution to the door problem

[@Douge11]

Hilarious that after seeing this vid on my feed for months, the day before I decide to watch it, I get stuck in the door on badwater, which you called rare

[@LEDs]

nuts

[@darkspy7098]

"Oh good, a concussion!"

[@enderbassboss9292]

i love that all the suggestions for the door clipping fails in any game where you can get over 1000 hp as you can use an engi to telefrag into you and walk thru the doors with ease as long as your hit box's over lap because of the game code

[@lawfulll5532]

TF2 has a lot of problems

[@ZdrytchX]

Now that I think about it, Quake 3 engine never had this problem with the door because they operate very differently. Automatic opening trigger ranges are automated by the game engine and surround the door, you don't need an on-exit trigger to close the door. Tremulous has team specific triggers and they work fine. Automatic openings are optional, you can use trigger brushes like in tf2 for things like remote and complicated access requirement, as often in "mission" maps in tremulous.

[@eoxTF2]

i always covered the entire respawndoor with visualizer while i making my own map i hope one day you made a video how gates opened cuz it doesnt work well for me anyway great video led keep it up 👍

[@father00100]

2:03 doohickey

[@LEDs]

Yes 😛

[@sssssswitch]

1:41 just delete pyro and problem solved

[@nenkoso]

as a beginner game developer and not necessarily a tf2 mapper, I found this video very interesting and informative

[@LEDs]

Nice

[@irgendwer3610]

man so many of the exploits you mentioned I remember seeing in Delfy, that's pretty cool

[@mattys1000]

Love these sorts of videos man, tf2 mapping is so interesting, keep it up! :)

[@susulpone]

i think there is a reason why the doors need to be that way, which is that its mad funny for a scoped in sniper to walk through and just get bopped on the head

[@kristyandesouza5980]

This is what years without an update-sized update do to a game's creators, we get to talk about doors now

[@24auto22]

anyone who can understand the hammer editor is a genius in my mind i understand none of it but love these videos

[@alexanderscout]

2fort already knew about this problem and fixed it with its secondary spawn doors

[@Nerdboi6]

have you tried adding a train watcher to your test map to replicate the hoodoo/badwater door behavior? when payload mode is enabled, moving brushes, including doors and tracktrains, behave differently and can shunt themselves into other objects to prevent the payload from behaving strangely if it clips into a player or prop

[@LEDs]

I haven't. You're probably right, though

[@starmaker75]

It amazing that being a fan for 10 years, you still see things that you go "wait, that an thing!?". Again source spaghetti is quite something.

[@GeneralZimmer]

Weird part. The only source spaghetti is the pyro bug. Everything else is mappers not adhering to a standard practice that can prevent all of these issues, or just make the tools fool proof.

[@StitchPen]

Next time I make a map and slightly misplace a trigger brush, I'm gonna start losing my mind over the "Source Spaghetti."

[@KimFareseed]

Did not know about the trigger_hurt region between the doors of badwater. Guess it was passed over on the pro variant.

[@pichu7945]

One possible way to solve some of these problems is adding a second door with a slight gap between both doors so one door is closed while another is open (not regarding multiple teammates)

[@Vexruna]

Ay this is perfect material of things to note.

[@CallofFreaky]

I got stuck in the enemy door for like a minute after killing an engineer coming out of it and no one came out to that the whole time, until a spy did and killed me on the way out

[@TheDjpwn3]

The thumbnail led me to believe that someone was somehow able to spend 15 minutes talking about bumping into the corners of door frames

[@Yeyoski]

DOORSTUCK DOORSTUCK OUTTA MY WAY SON

[@MrGermandeutsch]

I am surprised these issues even exist to begin with.

[@LordRemiem]

It happened to me! I got stuck inside that exact door in Badwater, and I had to killbind to get out

[@nuts5388]

8:40 I think the easiest way is to just not play wutville 💀

[@Kemuja]

13:15 I guess, this door has Hoodoo magic in it.

[@Felale]

That pyro hat is absolutely cursed.

[@TheRealFishyB]

Back in the day of rummaging through maps to get references, I noticed the dustbowl spawn door as well. It has to go down, because if it goes up, it creates a temporary invisible wall above poking out the roof. As for the pyro flames licking around the edges of doors, i'd hazard a guess to just move the door brush to overlap into the walls, roofs and floors by a few units. I know it will play havok with my internal OCD, but it's just a bunch of pros and cons and inclusive/exclusive conditions everywhere X)

[@LEDs]

I actually tried extending it through the sides, but that surprisingly had no effect

[@Andrej.A]

7:12 If you stand inside a teammate or a sentry (or dispenser) you get slightly pushed. Idk the reason of this or how it exactly works, but i notice this in almost every match.

[@LEDs]

That's normal, it's so that people don't cram themselves on top of each other.