TF2: Short Circuited

[@ZestyJesus]

I don't main a class, by the way.

[@AquaGaming1607]

How does one not main a class?

[@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106]

Impossible

[@the_womp_and_only9062]

I think the second one is the best, even the old Short Circuit was OP and deleting projectiles isn't balanced but adding the risk of screwing over your teammates is good although it will reaffirm that all engineer players are trolls.

[@snackermantm105]

So you are a Main All Class (?

[@fluffybat5421]

@@snackermantm105 I don't think you heard what he said lol, not maining *any* class just means he doesn't play any class spesically the most i think

[@Fylnx]

Your comments have been appreciated. We are doubling the radius of the energy ball and reducing the metal cost to 25. Have a nice day, and always remember, my favorite class is the spy.

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

Bruh could you imagine his reaction

[@yeyo1019]

@@ToyFreddyGaming1987 look I don't like to see people suffer but the rage/rant video that would come from that would be just too entertaining

[@coIlgnu]

Thanks, and have fun

[@pancakeperson8905]

I think a larger energy ball would indirectly nerf it because it explodes on contact with anything meaning it can't be spammed down as many chokes.

[@Fylnx]

@@pancakeperson8905 Ah, true. Clearly the solution is to make the energy ball phase through walls, only dissipating on timer.

[@dikathemas6713]

Imagine relying on projectiles to destroy sentries -this comment was made by the Heavy gang

[@cringe_bread6531]

Yes

[@medicalwoodsy2775]

hm Heavy

[@dinonuggiesguy4847]

@Radio Star imagine fighting enemy indirectly or directly -this post was made by the hoovy gang

[@morp9426]

Imagine not dying horribly to sentries. This post was made by demoknight gang

[@hattedmoron555]

@@gamecavalier3230 didnt they remove it?

[@miss-sagemoon]

9:30 That is an awful idea and would probably just make engie get yelled at for trying to protect their buildings

[@tameronica]

ikr

[@AstridRuna]

This vid is of good intentions, but blinded and or mislead by bad experiences.

[@RoleplayUnderMaintenance]

It would be better if the projectiles would have a 50% chance to explode and the rest of the 50% is for the fetus deletus.

[@nadroji6549]

@Dr Linnerd I was thinking the same thing, not only could you potentially be killing teammates, but you could also be damaging your buildings, especially if you built your nest in tight places, you would be putting you, any teammates & your buildings in danger. If anything, this encourages more spam, b/c the Engie would just be launching everything behind him, this isn't even a double edged sword, this is a single edged sword that's always pointed at you.

[@AstridRuna]

@@RoleplayUnderMaintenance RNG is never a fair option, gentlemen, even though I see your solution semi-working. My fix would be, that the ball, only after 0,3 sec, deletes. So clutch and reflex would be nerved. But, well, I don't think that the SC should be nerved.

[@reax5526]

I'm a demoman main and i had fun playing with and against the short circuit. You just have to adapt to what the enemy player is using and if he's using the short circuit I aim my grenades at an angle, I hold off or i die if I get surprised by it, that's tf2. You arent talking much about the metal it needs, you can't spam it unless you are sitting near a cart or a dispenser, and if you do you'll find yourself crippled most of the time as you cannot repair or build as much. The wrangler is the real deal here, the short circuit may help you against projectiles, but the wrangler protects you against all of tf2 and it doesn't need metal to be used.

[@fish4225]

The weapon being bad for the engineer doesn't make it less OP. A weapon being bad for both the class using it and the people fighting that class is just more reason to change it.

[@MasterCookies]

@@fish4225 Em, in other ways you just want to remove the only counterplay the Engie have against Demomans and Soldiers that are already the best classes in the game

[@fish4225]

@@MasterCookies The best classes in the game? Are you for real? You're wrong anyways because the engineer has always had counterplay to soldier and demos, several in fact. To list a few: shooting them in the face; working with his team; the wrangler; keeping your sentry up long enough to kill them (i.e, metal management); etc. How do you think engineers survived before the short circuit?

[@medicalwoodsy2775]

@@fish4225 Scout, Medic, Demoman, and Soldier. Are you being serious not taking those classes seriously, have you seen Soldiers mobility and bombs, have you seen the DPM and Damage of Demomen, have you seen how much healing a Medic can get done and the health boosting, have you seen the insane 1v1 potential of Scout or hell even a whole team?

[@medicalwoodsy2775]

@@fish4225 Yes shoot the Soldier's and Demomen who are being smart and spamming ina good position, then walk up to them where they are more effective than you and die because a shotgun is outclasses by the classes that can deal splash damage, that can juggle, etc. Of course Engineer can work with his team, but doesn't it say something when 2 classes don't have to work with their team, and can put in less effort than the Engineer and get a lot more for it? The wrangler is overpowered no matter how you slice it. Direct Hit, Loch-n-Load, Grenades (100 Damage w/ 4 Clip Size and 16 in Reserves), Rocket Launcher (90 Damage w/ 4 Clip Size and 20 in Reserves). I get that the Engineer can protect himself in other ways but what I'm merely pointing out is the Engineer severely struggles with Soldiers and Demomen and something to help with that frees up Engineer from this stale meta of the Defensive Engineer.

[@draconocor]

While I agree with you about how the skill tradeoff favors the Engi, I've found that when playing Soldier an Engineer can fire off about 3 energy balls and then they're easy pickings.

[@theowlogram888]

Don't know for you but when it's against me it's more like orb-shotgun shot - orb - shotgun shot and now I'm dead without making any scratch to the engie.

[@nadroji6549]

@Draconocor Just do what Soldiers do for Pyros, pull out your shoty & lay waist.

[@draconocor]

@@nadroji6549 haha I'm a pyro main and I can tell you that's easier said than done

[@theowlogram888]

@mehdi Haddou This ball is so damn huge and it lingers for enough time to make them almost 100% safe. I mean sure, you can die to the same dude 10 times in a row to learn his pattern but why bother when even going battle medic is a faster way to beat him lol

[@FatheredPuma81]

@@theowlogram888 Point your rocket at your feet and get some distance then. Only difference in this case is you won't have fire damage as you run or be out 100 health from a reflected rocket.

[@falugger1659]

Just want to point out that the old short circut deleted *EVERYTHING* nearby there was no limit to how much they could delete and they didn't even have to aim it, not to mention the ammo cost was so low they could completely negate a push even if the enemy used uber

[@cadelisowe4887]

Yeah ... a full revert is not the way to go.

[@Sinchu9]

Except the range was around a pyro's airblast So tiny

[@LOL48093]

it needed more skill since the area was small so you needed to time it right just like pyro's airblast

[@handson4580]

its much better then the current thats for sure

[@killer11454]

There was 3 versions, there was the blu moon one (orb), pre blue moon (right click for 65 metal with a slight cooldown), and the unholy abomination that was the release version where left clicking deleted projectiles for 5 metal

[@capitalism1619]

Zesty my boi I like your channel, but I don’t really agree with you on this. First off the short circuit on a non-battle engie isn’t normally good for metal management as the wrangler can not only let engineers main area denial tank more damage from all classes as opposed to the short circuit, but also can allow for more damage output via the 2x firing rate, aswell as certain sentry positions only allowed via sentry jumping. I believe what you are trying to address would be the battle engie. The short circuit on the battle engie isn’t too op either. Yes it allows for more aggressive play, but you practically never can be offensive as an engineer because on the front line you are almost always at a disadvantage against every other class except medic. Heavy: tank and high DPS Scout: faster speed and DPS Spy: positioning Sniper: long range Soldier: Mid to long range aswell as splash damage with rockets and a shotgun for mid to close range combat Demo: near instant area denial and no need for line of sight Pyro: WM1 Other engineers: if they have a sentry you’re dead even a mini can badly hurt you if you don’t react quick enough The short circuit is good because engies are the most vulnerable to every single other class without his buildings. It’s only real viable use is for battle engie and even then you have to constantly manage your metal and know where ammo packs are leading to you being much more predictable. Dispenser spam isn’t to good either because of the steep cost of the ball. At the absolute max you can have 9 balls being at full metal and sitting next to a dispenser, but this situation almost never comes around due to it taking 600 metal to get a maxed dispenser and a mini, not to mention the mini sentry will probably be destroyed constantly if you’re playing dynamically. On one on one encounters aswell you don’t have much to use. In situations I find myself in I place a mini , try to distance myself, then I only have one chance to buy time for my buildings and stop 1-2 projectiles. If this fails both me and my mini gets yeeted of the fact of the earth by a rocket/pipe to the face. You have to CONSTANTLY manage your metal or you will find yourself in a bad situation with no mini to place or any energy orbs to spam. Even when playing aggressively you can’t switch to your primary unless the opponent is reloading or you’re dedicating yourself to shotgunning the opponent down. There’s a slight delay in when the short circuit is fired so that if you switch back to your the short circuit it’s either too late or you somehow get damaged by your own weapon because the rocket was too close.The short circuit is fine because It allows you to buy time for your buildings and remove spam. So please forgive for calling you a salty soldier boi even though “you don’t main a class”

[@ec6xu]

ok person who thinks wm1 is op

[@scyfrix]

Gotta disagree with you on the Spy front. "Positioning" is a pretty flimsy excuse for why a class is better in direct combat. The whole point of Spy is that he's normally not supposed to engage in direct combat. Otherwise I pretty much agree with you.

[@crazydman5546]

Just to mention something, while it is a lot harder, you can make jumps with the short circuit by getting close to an enemy, crouchjumping, and then alt firing. It can give you a hell of a lot of air, too. Just thought I would mention.

[@CoolSs]

that sound logical .

[@mf6610]

Don’t forget airblast on pyro too I hate people who think pyro is all WM1 and overpowered

[@bobthemage2331]

Zesty: Spaming SC too powerful and thoughtless Soldier and Demo mains: Mindlessly spam down choke to get free kills

[@syweb2]

The problem's on both ends, honestly.

[@taxevasion0336]

Exactly what I was thinking the entire video

[@kaiji4788]

@@Thornskade "JUST" It's 65 metal doe. And if spamming rockets/grenade isn't usefull outside choke points, so is SC who has sure a bigger hitbox, But is much slower than the other projectile and also alot more expensive

[@frostbite5081]

​@@Thornskade 1. Spamming the SC is not worthwile either unless you glue yourself to the cart as a BLU. Even then, you're not immune from spam PLUS you're still running out of metal quickly. 2. Same goes for the short circuit. 3. You know you have to *aim* the energy ball too, right? My most played classes are demo, engineer and soldier. Never once have I thought "the short circuit is OP" because surprise surprise, for every rocket or pill that I negate from the barrage of spam, at least 3 or more pass through. "If someone hits you with a grenade or directly with a rocket it was a well-aimed shot" Sticky spam and splash damage "all the Engie has to do to completely nullify the shot is to press a button" Aim exists for the SC. You're not gonna get much out of it if you spam it unless it's down a narrow chokepoint, which really only is a problem on poorly designed maps like dustbowl. "It doesn't matter if it is expensive to do, the core of the issue remains that you press a button to nullify skillful input entirely" Spam =/= skillful input

[@frostbite5081]

@@Thornskade I get your point, I'm just correcting you when you implied that the short circuit requires no skill. It definitely does, as aim, something that the SC actually requires, is a skill in and of itself. Another thing is the SC isn't as effective as a pyro's airblast. Hell, it's not even as effective as its previous version, which was basically a force field against projectiles that was much spammier than what it is right now.

[@joestephens7017]

"For no cost whatsoever, whenever." "No real downside." "No tradeoffs." Now, mah good friend, I can understand and comprehend that you may not have much experience with the concept and practice of engineering. That's alright, not a lot of folks got the guff to solve practical problems every day. But today, I am going to tell you about a practical problem: Metal Management. A teleporter costs 50 metal. A dispenser costs 100. The orb costs 65. That means you have to make an educated decision about what you need in that moment; the orb costs enough metal that in your metal management plan, it needs to be looked at as its own building, in a very literal sense. Uncle Dane picked up on that there problem pretty well. This means that when you're out there on the lonesome frontier, you've gotta make a fast decision to save your life: do I need this orb now? If you use it, you better pray that you do need it, because otherwise you're in a world of pain.

[@magnetiteeagle2.025]

YES !

[@ethanmarkel8638]

100% right

[@redmosquito2173]

For this reason Danes suggestion that the ability to get metal from a payload cart should be removed so it doesn’t negate metal management

[@jspark8990]

unless its payload offense

[@hoarsebard]

In addition to no metal from cart, I would suggest maybe a halved metal gain from dispensers while it's out as well. Engi would then have to put the damn thing away to get his metal back.

[@andrewdrane5349]

"This item in this team based game doesnt help the individual as much as it helps the team" yeah... you sure THATS the point you want to make? Also unless youre sitting in an area that gives constant metal (IE an engie nest where he can protect his buildings) the MOST you can "Spam" it is 3 times without a metal re-fill so you are either hard camping an ammo spawn or are on a murderous rampage anyway and just picking up the boxes

[@moekitsune]

@@g2ltt733 I know I'm late but payload isn't the only Game mode

[@medicalwoodsy2775]

Constant metal? Do you know how long it takes for metal to build in dispensers, do you know how your nest is static and is constantly subject to spam and chip damage if the enemy team is competent, do you know how much Soldiers and Demoman can spam? Those 2 classes are some of the strongest and can easily spam out an Engineer trying to protect his team, they fire faster, they can last longer in firing, they deal much more damage. It's rather silly right?

[@yeyo1019]

@@medicalwoodsy2775 yeah but "waaah QwQ engineer killed me using well timed sc shots on a 1v1 while I was spamming rockets, this weapon is so op!" Like seriously why are most soldier mains the more whiny of all classes when it comes to something that counters them even if its just a little bit, and im a soldier main btw lol

[@Rat_Fบcker]

I use it on attack payload I spam right click like no tomorrow they can't do shit about it

[@maestrofeli4259]

@@Rat_Fบcker they can shoot you with sniper, heavy and scout. They can backstab you with spy

[@greenwarrior33]

As an engineer main, I disagree with a lot of the points in this video. 1. The energy ball takes a lot more skill than it looks like. Although I mostly just use it for sticky traps, you can't just spam it and expect to survive. The ball is a 3d object and firing it even a couple degrees off can completely miss rolling pills or splash rockets. 2. 65 metal is a lot of metal. Engineer is all about metal management. 65 metal is more than a teleporter or half a sentry's health bar. Spending that much on a chance to stop some spam is a large investment. 3. It does not shut down 2 classes but rather limits options. Explosive classes would have to stop spamming and have to either aim for less damaging splash or bait out the timing with the engineer and kill him. In the same way pyros airblast works. 4. Engineer doesn't need this weapon. Other classes and items could take care of these problems. However engineer is the ultimate support class and being able to help his team with removing sticky traps or protecting a choke point is greatly valued. 4b. The pomson doesn't directly help his team which is why it feels more negative in most people's eyes compared to the short circuit. 5. The older version was straight broken. Not only could you destroy any projectile around you, it destroyed behind you as well. Oh demo, did I walk past your trap? Well it's gone now. It also damaged any spy in the area which made tracking them a bit easier. 6. The revision tried to make up for it by changing the metal cost but it made protecting a checkpoint super cheap. While I do feel like it needs some work and I have some fixes below, I like where it is headed don't think it needs a complete overall. Fix #1 Stopping cart pushing spam. It is currently too easy to spam a choke point with an infinite supply of metal. I think giving it ammo and making it a longer reload will stop non stop balls. Somewhere in-between the rescue ranger and bison. Fix #2 Make a new weapon. I know it's dumb but the secondary for engineer is super small and having a medium to long range small clip size pistol that does around 50 damage could easily make way for the SC to become a full on tool. Engineers could pick between either doing damage at any distance outside of 6 feet or saving projectiles w/o damage. Fix#3 small tweaks like making the ball smaller or having a cap on the number of items before exploding.

[@alfredo5721]

As another engie main, I kinda agree with you, 65 metal is a LARGE investment, so it is more like a risk-reward weapon than a stupid spam weapon. People might say once you get your nest done, you’ll have an infinite amount of metal from your dispenser, but I argue that if you really get your nest done, your teammate can easily use your teleported and back you up. So yea, it isn’t broken, just a bit strong.

[@alphads2000]

Just give engie a freaking revolver, a hecking six shooter, the dammed biggest of irons cuz GOSH DARN BOI HOW A TEXAN AINT GOT SOME IRON ON HIS HIP

[@LARAUJO_0]

This outlined just about everything I wanted to say. Why does this comment not have more likes

[@longtimenosee6169]

To be honest. I think the whole video is just on the perspective of a "You are on a payload map on attack." Where you can freely spam the SC thanks to the payload. I never found it attractive nor strong because.. bullet exist.

[@tysonvienneau1830]

Uncle Dane talked about the orb

[@GermanPeter]

First of all, never get rid of the ball projectile. It's too much fun. Secondly, you said equipping the Short Circuit makes you give up your peashooter, but you didn't mention that it also makes you give up your Wrangler. And I don't know much about Engie, but I feel like there's a lot more that can be said about that. Because the Wrangler protects and buffs your Sentry, whereas the SC protects you, your team and your buildings, but doesn't really give a direct buff to your damage output, you know? I dunno, I just feel like it's always important to factor in all unlockable weapons when talking about a weapon. Like the Overdose, looks amazing on paper and in practice works well, but unfortunately loses against the Crusader's Crossbow by default. Also, I'm always a fan of breaking class metas, like how Demoman can turn into Demoknight or Engineer into Battle Engie. I feel like while the classes of TF2 are fun, subclasses are the closest we'll ever get to having a new class, and I like that. So in that regard, ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶M̶e̶d̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶t̶g̶u̶n̶ I really like the idea of Engie essentially being Reinhardt from Overwatch and having a sort of shield in front of him and his team. I really don't think it's that bad of an idea and I think it's actually a bit more interesting than just protecting your buildings. However, I think it should be adjusted so it's not annoying to play against. Like Reinhardt: he can't attack with his shield out, so it's powerful, but fair. I think the idea of diverting projectiles is a good one, but my initial thought when you talked about "short-circuiting projectiles" was making them explode. So if the rocket/ sticky/ grenade is already close to Engie, it can blow up in his face. But likewise, it can blow up in the Soldier's/ Demo's face. That would require even MORE tweaking though, because it still just benefits Engie.

[@widgetfilms]

That was pretty much what I was thinking. Why remove a fun mechanic instead of tweaking it?

[@Appletank8]

An Ubercharge also doesn't do any direct damage boost, but completely negates damage. Except the uber takes 40 seconds to charge and does it on one person, while SC can negate all projectiles for 5 seconds or so sitting next to a dispenser. I'd say the wrangler actually stops less damage, because its a resistance instead of a "nope, no damage here" I feel like airblast is the closest in game ability to SC, but unlike SC, it needs good timing due to its much slower fire rate, and the cone of effect is much smaller. And you can realistically fire it about 6 times or so if you've been flaming.

[@XRN0]

*give Medic a shotgun*

[@widgetfilms]

I also think the idea of making the projectile explode would be the best change to the weapon. It would require more prediction and timing, and actually increase the skill ceiling.

[@seokkyunhong8812]

@@widgetfilms why is the skill barrier on the engineer? Why can't soldier players just Wait and shoot?

[@benjamincurtis1891]

As somebody who's played with it,you get three shots at 65 metal and that's it. And that's if you're not healing your building the metal management requirements is more difficult than it was

[@mohammadwaled409]

That's not really what hes talking about hes talking more about the teammate protection aspect of the weapon

[@galacticgamer6635]

@@mohammadwaled409 Well, you can't just only focus on one aspect on a weapon to see if its balanced. Obviously, every weapon would be OP if you only focused on its upsides.

[@hanro50]

@@mohammadwaled409 you know what would do a better job at protecting your teammates then the short circuit? A level 3 sentry.

[@mohammadwaled409]

@@hanro50 well you can't really use a level three on payload offense 5cp outside of last points or koth You can try a lvl3 but it most likly won't be as effective as short circuit gunslinger engie

[@hanro50]

@@mohammadwaled409 I mean you could just go heavy, sniper or spy....

[@newyorkrican420]

Zesty: The weapon is bad. Engies who help out their teams outside of payload: Okay soldier main.

[@thatcooldudeisawesome876]

I think its balanced on payload to

[@thatcooldudeisawesome876]

@Hyper ​ @Hyper But let's be honest, that's not really that helpful, yes you can somewhat infinitely stall a soldier or demoman with good aim and timing but at the cost of being this cart pushing engie you are using a weapon in the open that cannot do much damage making anyone who does not rely on projectiles a predator of which you cannot defend yourself! Also time is a resource to, as an engineer you are risking the destruction of all your buildings, like teleporters and dispensers just so you can spam a cart. With no support buildings you are doing what I would consider more damage to your team than good if you believe its more important to abandon them to push a cart a few extra feet, as that is the engineers main role! So besides being cannon fodder to a team of non-projectiles only being able to spam a gun with limited damage, you are sacrificing all your buildings to do so, instead of using it to defend and help, because of this drastic downside I reckon its balanced in a way! But tell me more how you think about it? What is your perspective on this?

[@nihili4196]

If you're battle engie on payload then short circuit is indeed pretty broken. Still, any class using non projectile attacks as their main source of damage counters that quickly. You won't kill anyone with SC any time soon, and heavy, sniper, spy or enemy sentry will delete you pretty quick. In pubs with average teams of three spies, four snipers, three heavies, pyro and one soldier/demo this weapon is not as game breaking as some claim.

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

@Vortex same with dustbowl spawn

[@noobmaster5325]

Soldier: Destroys sentry in 2 seconds w/ direct hit Engie: *switches to short circuit and deletes 3 rockets Soldier: Short circuit OP, completely negating my basic effectiveness

[@leonardo9259]

Absolutely unplayable

[@Master_Brutus]

This and the Darwins are the only two weapons in the game that completely negate another classes skill without needing skill yourself. The DDS is obviously worse since its a literal crutch used by 60% of Snipers, while the SC isnt as bad since 95% of Engineers are committed to the church of Wrangler and often not as common as a problem to the Soldier and Demoman. If the SC had a noticable firing cooldown after using the ball attack, it would be fair. Or make it so you dont get metal from Dispensers or Payload Carts while its active

[@ikiry0830]

@@Master_Brutus If it had a cooldown after each shot, then the counter to it would be 'Spam at full speed, like you were already planning' rather than the current 'time your shots, eat up all his metal', making it even *less* skillful than it is now to deal with. It *should* stop being able to be got from Payload Carts, yes but I disagree on Dispensers as Dispensers have limited metal supply and it takes a long time to build up.

[@asdasf8817]

@@Master_Brutus i think the best nerf would be to revert it back so that there is no alt fire because then it would take more skill than just spamming alt fire to delete projectiles

[@captaingoomba6907]

@@asdasf8817 Instead of spamming alt fire and deleting all of your metal in exchange for deleting... 3 rockets, you spam alt fire and delete ALL of their rockets and are still able to heal your buildings. Yes, this is totally a good idea.

[@dionysos8326]

If the short circuit is overpowered the pyro must be a literal god

[@Bloockackack]

20 cost for an air last that deals full mini crits

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

@@Bloockackack better yet he has a full arsenal of other weapons he can pester you with. And he has 50 more HP.

[@Fatsaver]

One requires skill the other requires spam and metal. Huge difference brother.

[@teinmeizeshi5209]

7:24 I'm pretty sure I'm sacrificing the wrangler, which is a HUGE trade off.

[@yuyukooyunda7476]

Or pistol's chip damage if you're using risky weapons like Frontier Justice and Widowmaker

[@gravity1537]

@@yuyukooyunda7476 Especially considering the pistol's bottomless clip.

[@yeyo1019]

@@gravity1537 no joke it can dish out a good amount of damage if you can track well, and it pretty much has infinite ammo, might as well spam it

[@Tom-H1]

"hmm yes short circuit bad" Zesty I love you but not once in either videos did you mention the METAL cost. You can fire 3 shots max, and maybe three more if you get a full metal pack. That's it.

[@skinnymann9932]

That's true, it definetely is. However, if you were to play on payload maps and/or if the Engineer were to find a reliable sourceo of metal (i.e dispencer, dropped metal packs from enemies.), the engineer then has what is essentially unlimited metal, which in turn means that he can use the short circuit as much as they want to use it.

[@Tom-H1]

@@skinnymann9932 Your point is valid on payload but not for anything else, since, y'know, *dispensers run out of metal.*

[@caiooliveira4964]

@@Tom-H1 this could be simply solved by making so you cannot get metal from the payload with the short circuit, and yes, i think he needed to mention the metal cost, just like uncle dane said, this is what makes it balanced, you are trading the ammount of healing/mobility of your buildings for a short ammount of time of projectile protection, witch can be easily negated when it runs out

[@caiooliveira4964]

he talks about 65 metal as if it is a nothing stat btw, witch it isnt, 65 metal is 200hp for buildings and much more

[@caiooliveira4964]

also, the short circuit is banned from competitive because it can be op with payload and in the last points, mid fights, etc where you are right next to your spawn

[@fitzpatrickwooden1337]

Soldier Mains: NO!!! YOU CAN'T JUST BLOCK SOME OF MY ROCKET SPAM NOOOO!!!! Engi mains: "Haha circuit go zap"

[@kannatheweeb8836]

Lol

[@xXSimplySammyXx]

Made me smile

[@Peter_Turbo4]

random phlog Pyro: *"MMMPH"*

[@classygentlemangaming8400]

unfunny

[@taxuenowoz4038]

TIME TO RUN COWARDS

[@bucketfullabiscuits7865]

This video has a lot of exaggeration. Like, when you compared it to ubercharge, you just gloss over the majority of its setbacks. 65 metal means three orbs IN THE BEST SITUATION, and that can do "100% projectile deletion" (only in a really shitty choke point with no flanks or a 1v1) for a few seconds, and during those few the seconds the engineer likely isn't going to damage you seriously. It's really good down chokepoints when you need to push, and honestly that is the least degenerate thing I can say about a weapon.

[@magoichi75]

Reward?? The old short circuit had no way of showing the actual range of the “no go zone” for projectiles. There was a reason why that weapon was obligated to the back of the engineer stockpile of weapons due to the sheer amount of risk it puts the engineer to use. I’ll admit the dbz ball of deletion is a tad overpowered but it was needed to actually make the weapon somewhat useable and not something that was scrap on sight.

[@taxevasion0336]

Uhhh -65 metal You never heard of metal managment have you?

[@frostbite5081]

"This is why the previous of the SC was more tolerable" Proceeds to get deleted by a demoman who had subpar pill aim.

[@frostbite5081]

@@a.t.4527 He was complaining about how "OP" the short circuit is and how it supposedly completely shuts down demomen and soldiers. Then he gets deleted by a couple pipes while using it

[@a.t.4527]

oh ok

[@thatcooldudeisawesome876]

@@frostbite5081 timestamp plz

[@frostbite5081]

@@thatcooldudeisawesome876 7:37

[@trollking6315]

He wasnt using it properly. He used the sc once, then got tunnel vision on the shotgun. A engi that abuses it staggers between sc and shotgun while keeping proper distance between him and the demo to abuse said combo. Also of course he had shit aim, he was a Iron Crutcher demo.

[@lmaobox4068]

Valve: makes a weapon that punishes spammers which “give a huge reward for very little skill and trade off” Zesty: B R O K E N

[@cringe_bread6531]

He’s a pubstomping weeb soldier that runs the battalions what do you except?

[@mf6610]

Soldier Boi he said he’s not a main

[@udrearadu-cristian9874]

Also the weapon dose take sacrifice beacuse u have l a cer short and limitez Time of protection u runnout of metal meaning u can heal ur biulding and also while using IT ur left defensless also u can not use The widomaker and wrangler too very usrfuls things and also have no metal to biuld New biudings that are just newly place to take The damage u would and cant place things and also IT pretty limiting for The engi cause he can only use whit his team around meaning he has to have a good team

[@taxevasion6309]

Indeed, it requires little effort. The orb is huge and moves slowly for around a second. The only significant trade-off is your 65 metal, which is practically nullified if you have a dispenser or payload cart nearby.

[@fish4225]

You say that as if that ISN'T broken.

[@captainpatchwork8107]

OH NO THE ENGIE SPENT ALL HIS METAL DELETING ONE CLIP'S WORTH OF ROCKETS!!! WHAT WILL I DO NOW!? oh yeah just reload

[@yuyukooyunda7476]

Nah gotta be salty about the SC instead of waiting for the Engie's metal run off that seems better

[@yeyo1019]

The saddest part is that if youre not a complete reckless idiot at most he can erase 3 proyectiles on a 1v1 assuming the engi is at 200 metal that is, so on average (meaning that he most likely used some of his metal) the engi will only have 2 balls to use "OH GOD HE ERASED 2!!! OF MY ROCKETS WHAT WILL I DO NOW?!"

[@yuyukooyunda7476]

@@yeyo1019 OMG MY ROCKETS GOT ERASED BY SC ENGIE WHO CAN MANAGE HIS METAL TO FIGHT ME OHH NOOO I CAN'T USE SHOTGUN

[@yeyo1019]

@@yuyukooyunda7476 i like the play that one engi did in this video, using the dispenser to shot at his sentry with the SC to avoid the damage, it was a very smart play, and you know, better than just keep firing at the sentry instead of killing the engi... ah sorry- WOW THE SC IS SO OP BECAUSE I GOT OUTSMARTED BY SOMEONE USING IT!!1!

[@yuyukooyunda7476]

@@yeyo1019 I've never dropped sc but I at least know what to do because I test drived it, knowing metal management, (not relying on dispensers because if I stay with em I'll go with em... OMG NO METAL MANAGEMENT HE'S STANDING ON TOP OF THE DISPENSER

[@facyual9061]

zesty's fix idea ADD RNG

[@iwiffitthitotonacc4673]

I mean people who play TF2 are already fine with or can at least tolerate RNG, they still play despite randoms on their teams and random crits. I don't tolerate RNG at all, so that's why I play 1v1 in arena shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament - no random teammates to mess things up and the weapons are purely skill-based.

[@fish4225]

What's yours then, dickhead?

[@aurumcoinforge4582]

@@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 wow i never considered that

[@Eeveeening]

@@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 Fr tho random crits are so annoying especially as a spy main like me, try to trickstab someone? Nope eat shit and die to a random crit, try to get around the map? Whoops random spam with crits on to stop you.

[@facyual9061]

@@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 the reason people tolerate random teamates is cause that is the entire point of the game but idk about others but i despise random crits and rbs.

[@ivansanchez143]

5 months later: Uncle Dane : Hold it!

[@idiodiclogic3457]

"Oh shit this engie just spent all of his metal deleting 3 of my rockets I fired in a predictable pattern! What will I do?"

[@yeyo1019]

Cry and call the weapon op and broken uvu

[@AbcdEf-lz6oe]

Reload and destroy their sentry

[@taste5728]

Mmhhhh This weapon doesn't let me make me turn a chokepoint into a projectile hell and force me to play differently... IT'S MUST BE THE ENGI FAULT!!!!

[@trollking6315]

The game was designed to be projectile hell. Those projectiles were in base game. A shitty Deus Ex promo weapon that breaks the games artstyle and shuts down two core engi counters, three with spychecking, is not. Your name is on point, "Shit Taste"

[@taste5728]

@@trollking6315 if the game is designed to be a projectile hell don't worry i'll keep spamming my orbs up your ass to respect the design philosophy of the game

[@justanscv]

@@trollking6315 Troll detected: Do Not Engage

[@seriousbusiness4658]

*sips from a mug labeled “soldier/demo main tears”*

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

Yee haw!

[@trollking6315]

*Sips from a server owner mug labeled "nerfed short circuit engi main tears"* For all else, heavy says hello you crutch using turtle.

[@jonahalkana5195]

@@trollking6315 alright so, first off 65 metal is insanely huge, im a tf2 engi main, and that is basically its own temporary building. more than a teleporter, also its not very spammable like zesty says (besides payload carts, but that could be fixed by not being able to get metal from the cart while sc is active) its 3 shots with pretty low fire rate, sure dispensers can be used but they run out of metal and its a pretty bad investment when you can heal the dispenser for much less. also i argue the old sc was so much more op, you have a spammable, constant stream, for about 15 per shot, in your field of view, which is most likely case as your a backline class. anyways, get good.

[@S_P_A_C_E_DD]

Giving the engineers any opportunity to screw over their own teammates is a dangerous idea.

[@nickprice2165]

Its true that demo and soldier and medic have to sacrifice much to get uber or banners or whatever. The diff between engi and those folks though is that engineers have to think about 20 different things in order to stay effective in the game. When your brain is split 20 different ways its nice to have something you can just right click and forget about when your buildings are in danger. If anything the short circuit encourages the opposing players to work together more closely, or to change tactics and not stay to rooted to their solider and demo mains. B r a n c h o u t.

[@leonardo9259]

Not only that, but soldiers and demos can destroy up to 2 minutes of work in 2-4 clicks. Engie needs this, it can be nerfed bc it's unfair in payload offense but this weapon is really good

[@lyra9597]

You throw another short circuit orb on me... and I'm gonna lose it. -Soldier / Demo main

[@Jessie_Helms]

The Short Circuit is hella fun in MVM wave 666 with a mini sentry. Max out metal capacity and regeneration. I wouldn’t say it’s *good* in MVM, but it’s fun.

[@samuelwinter5256]

If you're actually getting kills with it, an upgraded frontier justice works rly well with it as well. Free crits without spending any money

[@sparky00777]

@@samuelwinter5256 Sentry has 50 kills? Destroy that sucker and use those revenge crits to destroy the tank.

[@JdoYark]

Widowmaker with Max level firing speed + short circuit=real battle engie

[@joshgab7827]

Just saying remember that uber-crit soldier moment? Yeah

[@vivelespatat2670]

Widowmaker-SC- Any wrench (except the Eureka Effect) I can assure you it's good if not overpowered

[@poke548]

"First major change in an almost 8 year lifespan." Hoo boy, newer player detected. If he things the current Short Circuit is good, someone show him footage of the Smissmass 2013 Short Circuit, where Engies were chasing down projectile classes like fucking hounds and Soldier mains were literally crying. Or show him the pre-Smissmass 2013 which was... just sad to look at.

[@snackermantm105]

I like the actual stats of the short Circuit, it makes a good protection for Engie and teammates, and for stop the Spawncamp of Demo ˢᵖᵃᵐ.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

True. He ignored that obvious point in this video

[@fitzpatrickwooden1337]

Probs cause he's one of the people who wants to sticky and rocket spam.

[@jackmack4181]

Also those moments where your medic is healing the entire team on the last point and 5 soldiers on the enemy team is constantly firing rockets at your nearly dead team

[@disgustingg]

consider the pyro class

[@Tom-H1]

"I don't main a class, by the way."

[@CardGameAcolyte]

He sure as hell doesn't main engie lol

[@jonahalkana5195]

@@CardGameAcolyte pov: soldier 3,000 hours, engineer 200

[@capitalism1619]

Warning: This video contains a salty soldier boi

[@orangutanman2470]

Bruh he gonna come after you

[@fitzpatrickwooden1337]

Yes it does, oml.

[@capitalism1619]

He’s a guy who says he doesn’t main a class but doesn’t understand metal management and how the only way it’s really useful is by playing dynamically and how you constantly have to refill on ammo leading to you either needing to spend 500 metal to get a max dispenser that doesn’t even give you enough metal each time a portion refills or going to ammo packs leading to you being vulnerable with no building protection trying to get to an ammo pack with 1-3 orbs that really can’t protect you from literally every other class besides soldier and demo. Even then it’s still only three unrefillable shots without constant metal. I don’t get how he doesn’t get metal management.

[@ztido]

Salty engi main spotted

[@capitalism1619]

Actually dude it’s salt

[@natethegreat6509]

Zesty, we need this. It may eb the only thing that can stand up to the stickyspammer with a quickiebomb launcher

[@pk-jn2pf]

@@facemcshooty6602 and the sc costs 65 metal and can only be shot 3 times how can you spam it?

[@vivelespatat2670]

Quickiebomb launcher isn't stickyspam It's simulating an artillery cannon

[@railpwn1268]

@@facemcshooty6602 He's saying that people call the Short Circuit spammy despite it only having 3 shots, and you're saying that the Quickybomb can't be spammed by the same logic.

[@tehzhixiang9452]

@@facemcshooty6602 because there is a mechanic in this game that is called reloading

[@michaelbeckford442]

So I know you are talking about the Short Circuited but what am i seeing at 5:02?

[@flawedosiria6181]

Gorge lopez

[@batofdestiny]

cp_george steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2103550860

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

Hell

[@cadelisowe4887]

Engineer gives up a personal defense and "finish off" tool (pistol) or wrangler (better only w/sentry) for an expensive projectile that you need to 1. Aim at projectile class (not *too* hard considering it's very large) and 2. *predict* the enemies firing. All you have to do to counter this weapon is move to the side, avoid this slow moving projectile 3 times at most or switch to shotgun if your on soldier. If your a demo and you just cant outlast those 3 (or if engineer has dispenser) or more orbs, then yes its working as intended. Because when the engineer takes the time to set up a dispenser, and he successfully denies you from that area (i.e. engineers entire job) I dont see anything wrong with that. Switch to spy if you cant get him as demo or switch to shotgun if you cant get him as solly. I think it's in a fine spot.

[@guilhermef.cabral8252]

Or use the secondary, but better The short circuit should make the engie more vulnerable when using it, and shoting just 2 energy balls, or receiving a charge metter,

[@LordGarryk]

Does jebus not know that you can only reliably shoot three shots on the SC?

[@secretname2670]

"Hey is your enemy spamming soldiers and pesky demomans? Do they destroy your entire team without even thinking about using bullets? Fear no more , just use short circuit to show them how demospam and rocketgrind has no place in tf2. Its that simple!" Seriously, people really underestimate what good (thinking) heavy can do and same with scout and spy.

[@truckie8509]

@mehdi Haddou scout is the most powerful class in almost any situation. :)

[@lamihadamshareef5270]

@@truckie8509 scout telports behind you Engineer main: NANI

[@hunterd3142]

This video was brought to you by Salty Demoman and soldier mains.

[@Bloockackack]

I love melee kills as demo so no big deal for me. I like to alternate between the melee and pipes to make the engineer have to rely more heavily on timing and such. Jealous of soldiers that can just use their shotgun tho

[@the_real_boogeyman]

How to not be mad at this video: Remember that zesty is NOT Uncle Dane.

[@45.chuminh81]

How to be slightly anoyed by this video: remember that this guy is a soldier main

[@the_real_boogeyman]

@@45.chuminh81 bruh the pinned comment literally says he doesn't main any classes

[@45.chuminh81]

@@the_real_boogeyman oh shid sorry

[@punisheranimations6807]

Kinda why I watch him tbh

[@darthgiorgi4990]

​@skinny_mcbones_official yet he talks from a demo / soldier main pov with huge negative bias. Very obviously he doesn't play engi suportively (as you know, you should, even battle engi), because otherwise you wouldn't have an easy time using the orb.

[@pandapruitt2542]

I think Zesty is missing the fact that a soldier can just sidestep then shoot or rocket jump and shoot. I believe there's also an argument that since you can only shoot three and it's not that ENTIRE rectangle the WHOLE time being blocked it's not NEARLY as powerful as what it's made out to be here. The short circuit is GREAT on choke points but not in a normal game or map.

[@levirain6857]

Alternative title: Local soldier main gets mad that there is class counters

[@dionysos8326]

Accurate title: Soldier main is mad that the engineer isn't a free kill when he uses the short circuit

[@emmaleyna]

Zesty: I can't spam rockets and kill everything in sight because the engineer is using the short circuit!? Unbelievable, this weapon is incredibly OP.

[@starscream8989]

you know it is an ad hominem to insult the opposing side in an argument right?

[@botondzoltannagy8849]

I won't ever get mad at anyone using that profile pic.

[@NekoApril]

@@starscream8989 No, it's really not. An ad hominem is trying to discredit an argument based on the person making the argument. "You're a soldier main, therefore your opinion is wrong"

[@starscream8989]

@@NekoApril but he isn't a soldier main

[@LARAUJO_0]

8:03 "The old Short Circuit rewarded players by encouraging good positioning and timing to make the most out of the weapon rather than encouraging spam," I think you have this the wrong way around, the old Short Circuit was much more spammable because it only cost 15 metal (10 + 5 per object in a later update) to delete any projectiles in front of you, and the short range only further encouraged turtling. The current one opens up for much more dynamic gameplay, but I can understand the complaint about the range. Speaking of spamming, rockets, pipe grenades, and stickies are so much more spammable than Short Circuit orbs (65 metal is a pretty hefty price) and they can dish out 100s of damage in mere seconds, so it makes sense for there to be an easy counter to an easy attack method, especially for Engie, arguably the most susceptible to such projectile spam. Besides, you can easily just wait for the orb to disappear or move to the side before you continue firing

[@nihili4196]

As long as you're not playing payload, it's very easy to outspam engie. Engie can shoot only three orbs before having to replenish metal, without which he's basically useless. Also, another drawback of SC is that you sacrifice wrangler for it. And wrangler is the most OP thing that engie has.

[@captaingoomba6907]

@@nihili4196 Even ON payload, where the weapon is objectively overpowered, it's still possible to outspam the engineer as there's still openings. The engineer can fire the short circuit once every 2 dispenser ticks, which is a far larger gap between shots than pills, stickies or rockets.

[@jasoneskildsen9862]

I think it would be cool if you could charge the orb by holding down the button and firing by releasing. It could start off at the size of a sandman ball and build up to its current size(also maybe make the metal spent increase with the time charge). The hitbox of the sphere should not be so incredibly big, though. If you are charging it, there should be a glow easily visible to other players. I love this weapon to death, but it does feel a little one note and the primary fire is awful. Maybe make the primary fire shoot tiny little orbs or have a cone that doesn't destroy. I wish the weapon felt exciting to use.

[@marshmellominiapple]

dude that would be so fucking cool. Just spam little 10 metal orbs that are tiny or have a huge one for corridors. I'd say 5 sec charge time.

[@groundbeef2]

If nothing else it'd be a proper Megaman reference, then.

[@josephpetrikov1286]

Nono he's got a point

[@bug9591]

This is the best balance change I've heard yet that doesn't dump this weapon into the trash. The short circuits problem is that it's too easy to use, but this makes the engineer a big target while he's charging, which is nice. I also think there should be a cool down between shots.

[@jasoneskildsen9862]

@@outasi_official I imagine that the charge would slow you down, but not as much as the classic or mangler.

[@Holenpense]

I watched this like 3 months ago and I still have this question 4:15 *HOW TF DOES IT PROTECT YOUR BACK,YOUR FRONT,AND YOUR SIDES AT THE SAME TIME?!?*

[@user-yu1mg5lz1v]

It doesn't, infact even if you want to shoot in all 4 direction you wouldn't be able to shoot the 4th ball due to metal unless you got 60 metal from somewhere between firing

[@Holenpense]

@@user-yu1mg5lz1v yeah so he point is just completely flawed,you don’t just protect all your team by blindly right clicking

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

Apparently the old one could spycheck behind you because spy doesn't have it hard enough already.

[@nyatrue401]

Personally, pre blue moon short circuit made it ridiculously easy to spy check. It’s like being able to spy check all on your own for basically no cost.

[@woooweee]

in theory, in practice no one uses it for a reason

[@ripwaluigi5234]

The problem with the short circuit is that it's bad at doing what it's 'intended' to do and instead is used more like a pseudo soldier banner. Since, most of the time the cost to heal your sentry from a rocket or two is lower than firing an orb to delete them. However, when you're pushing/defending a choke, there's gonna be at least two explosive classes (most of the time). Then the value of the short circuit goes dramatically up, since you're effectively up two players for multiple seconds against the enemy team in a push.

[@galacticgamer6635]

That sounds like a GOOD thing.

[@TooFewSecrets]

@@galacticgamer6635 Closing your eyes and holding RMB while in a choke basically kills multiple players on the enemy team for 3 seconds (about 6 if payload offense or you have any metal pickups). Not really good design.

[@IllegalXeno]

I mean, the 'making projectiles short circuit' already happens. If it short circuits, the projectile is a dud. Honestly, to make it true to short circuit would be keep the projectile around but they don't explode and do much less damage

[@drivanradosivic1357]

from my understanding, what Zesty suggests is a arm mounted EMP grenade from TFC.

[@vivelespatat2670]

- Projectiles travelling throught the SC only deals 20% of their base damage

[@peregrinus524]

You forgot the sickeningly overpowered primary fire. Has to be reworked. It’s so broken.

[@aneasteregg8171]

Veteran players remember that one update where it actually was

[@ewanb1086]

I mean you can get up to 2000 damge with it

[@catrielmarignaclionti4518]

@@ewanb1086 with the same reasoning you can get 1trillion damage with any weapon so long as you have time for it xd

[@ewanb1086]

i guess but you can get 2000 damage in a full metal compacity

[@railpwn1268]

@@ewanb1086 good luck. that takes forever. even a engineer pistol, the lowest damage weapon (i believe) will kill you before you can finish someone off with that

[@sleepydan9818]

5:20 "100% projectile resistance for a significant amount of time" 3:24 "The orb lasts for exactly 1 second..." Bruh. Just spam another rocket. The engie will run out of metal very quickly.

[@nickgood3571]

Uncle Dane got an idea for a nerf to the Short Circuit which would be to make you gain less metal from the payload cart while you have it equipped, making it less spammable, which I think would be balanced. He proposed this idea in his Panic Attack video.

[@nihili4196]

That would fix most problems with this weapon since, well, outside of payload it's not spammable at all

[@eliann944]

"No sacrifices"? Mate, the orb costs a whopping 65 metal to fire for every single second you want that projectile invincibility, rendering it almost useless and incredibly underpowered, not overpowered. The short circuit is almost never used and is generally considered one of the worst weapons in the game, so I DEFINITELY disagree with just about every good opinion of it. Probably at least 75% of those people that use it are those people who will defend it religiously and try to use it at every opportunity to try and make it seem good.

[@vivelespatat2670]

We all know it's not overpowered (except when Pushing the Payload cart), but considered as one of the worst weapons in the game ? No, it's surely (outside of pushing the payload cart) one of the most balanced items in the world of pubs, you sacrifice self defense ( pistol), sentry survivability (wrangler) for a few moments of protection againsts projectiles for you and your team, and considering that pubs always have at least 2 explosives classes, the SC will have to be shot efficiently in order to work properly Also sorry for the approximative english it's hard to write at 11PM

[@jonahalkana5195]

@@vivelespatat2670 true, it takes immense amount of skill because you need to know when its appropriate to fire an orb, and it takes more skill to aim it, made me annoyed as hell when he said it took no skill to use the weapon.

[@MJPD955]

Nope, you are nitpicking and bias, I win bye bye

[@XSniper74184]

This man has won internet arguments forever. All hail him as the master debater!

[@LordofHogwarts]

Dunkey, is this your alt?

[@psy-chorus]

It's an engineer's job to get trodden on and watch as their sandcastles get kicked over, let them have this

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

I defended a capture point with a level 2 sentry and a warehouse full of dispensers, so, you can be trodden on while I hold the line, thank you very much.

[@samborton6613]

Zesty Jesus: short circuit bad :( Short Circuit: haha i can shoot 3 balls that stop a few rockets, oops, nvm i got killed by a pyro (or any of the other 6 classes) after 3 seconds

[@syweb2]

Isn't Pyro's fire a projectile? Also, nothing exists in isolation. There's always context - the _most common_ being that the engie has the rest of his team, or at least his server-side aimbot gun, to help protect him from Pyros and other classes.

[@galacticgamer6635]

@@syweb2 No, pyro's fire is not a projectile. Also, the soldier also has his entire team, unless he's overextending, which would get him killed anyway.

[@koalteufel7947]

6:20 youre not only giving up the wrangler, but with each use you give up 65 metal which could be going into something else. honestly the only things about the short circuit that need to change are the primary fire and cartspam.

[@yyeydhhshd]

I think that the short circuit is a balanced weapon because of how it supports more people rather than does more damage or just to helps u

[@seanmoyer7589]

Thats the reason its not balanced, it provides way too much utility for your entire team, with pretty much zero input

[@TurtleExplosive]

@@seanmoyer7589 That's kinda just engi tho

[@BurningSnoMan]

@@TurtleExplosive not really. Engi may provide support for his whole team but none of it is an ez single click type of support.

[@lazybonebone8723]

@@BurningSnoMan a solider or demo can wait for the ball to pass or wen he shoots the tird one

[@TurtleExplosive]

@@BurningSnoMan wrangler, pomson 6000 (to an extent) and kinda just sentries

[@USMailman.]

Kinda dig how you spent the whole video talking about how it should be about protecting buildings and not your team, but then the clip is you raging a short circuit engie doing just that

[@x-biaur1995]

How to balance the Short Circuit: Don't play Payload.

[@cavie034]

the engenieers job is to help his team and for protecting them for not even 2 seconds he loses 65 metal, which is a lot when u dont have a dispenser going already, and if he wanted to protect his building he should just use the wrangler, he can protect his sentry gun directly, and if anyone tries to snipe his other building the engenieer just can snipe back also the previos short circut could also just delete projectiles, if the engenier is attacking you with it you can just wait out the ball and shot afterwards and he only has 3 shots max afterwards he pretty much is a worse scout until he gets some metal and if he shot 3 shots at you you should be clad if he did, because then he doesn't have metal do build buildings which are way more usefull then the short curcuit because if he builds a mini instead u dont manage to kill it and he pulls out the wrangler, good luck dealing with that. When your playing a projectile-based class the short -curcuit might be "not fun" to play against, but a wrangled sentry is way stronger then 3 energyballs who deal little damage and protect the engenieer for a few secounds, he sacrifices more sentry.damage and range bfor not being fucked as soon as he is confronted by a solider or demoman up close and as for the skill thing the engenier still has to time the energie-ball and the main skill for an engie isn't do have the best aim or combo potentiel it is to manage his metal,buildings and building-placement to support his team in the best possible way and as said earlier, 65 metal is a lot if u dont have an active source off metal going already like a full amo pack or a dispenser. Being not fun to play against and being balanced is not the same thing. The short curcuit is just as "un-fun" to play against before blue moon , although the engenieer propably doesn't have much fun when getting spammed with projectiles either when he doesn't have the proper tools to deal with it.

[@Leo-ux8zk]

You didnt talk enough about 65 metal,65 metal is a T H I R D of the enginners total metal capacity,1 ball=teleport+15 metal,2 ball=sentry/2 telepoters+30 metal/1 dispenser+30 metal,the only op situacions is when the engi as a unlimited metal reserve like spawn or the cart/dispenser but they have coldown,the cart gives you metal very slowly(the same as a level 1 dispenser) and the dispenser has to regenerate and then give you the metal and also you have to build it and upgrade it with 200 metal per level

[@jefflee4527]

When you equipped the short circuit but the entire enemy team are heavys ;_;

[@Onyx0X]

Demo and Soldiers: *s p a m* Engies with SC: Im gonna pull a no u card and spam this I support the SC now its the second best secondary for engie

[@gravity1537]

I'm not sure what my favorite Engineer secondary is, but The Short Circuit is easily in my top 3.

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

@@gravity1537 engi really needs new weapons.

[@mmdoof]

Umm...you typically destroy one projectile per shot. This means, in exchange for destroying three (!) projectiles, you sacrifice your ability to repair your buildings or move them with the Rescue Ranger. So, unless you're stacking Engies, your position is as good as dead. Even if you had time to restock, you will suck your dispenser dry in seconds with the massive metal drain. The Short Circuit is useless against any kind of coordinated attack. The only occasion where I've felt it's truly powerful is an unlimited ammo server. But even then, there are weapons that gain much more power than the Short Circuit.

[@mrsentrybuster]

Soldier with voice: *EXISTS* me: *the big sad*

[@big924]

Hold up, he can only use it 3 times, it doesn’t do too much damage, if you use any bullet weapon it’s useless, it only lasts for 1 second, it also makes the engi unable to use the wrangler, one of his most powerful weapons, demo can also shoot *above* it due to its arch. Also that suggested rework is stupid, because you can screw over your team with it, *on a support class* The old reason for the short circuit rework is that it also was an aimbot pistol and could detect spies way easier My suggested stat changes are: -10% firing speed -25% ammo gain from all sources (except spawnroom lockers)

[@mf6610]

Here’s a few counter arguments, I’m not disagreeing with you, I just want to let you know. -It costs 65 metal and that’s a significant sacrifice especially considering what else you can use that metal for -You can’t spam it because it costs 65 metal -You can only fire it three times at full metal because IT COSTS 65 METAL -You can dodge the ball or wait for it to disappear or juke the engineer -It punishes spam which is also cheap and unfair Your rework ideas are awesome though 🙂👍

[@nihili4196]

I agree with everything except his rework ideas being good. Reverting SC would make it much more annoying for every other class, and if it was to randomly deflect projectile then using it would have to be much less costly since it's RNG, as well as maybe make projectiles neutral so they would hurt everyone, not only your team. And making projectile distance shorter would nerf this weapon to the ground, and that's last thing that Engie and his vast selection of weapons needs.

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

@@nihili4196 god I hate that RNG idea. Yes give more tools for the engi to grief. Any engi using it seriously would get yelled at for protecting his buildings.

[@nihili4196]

@@ToyFreddyGaming1987 I agree that's a bad idea, but if SC was to be changed, that's the only way to do so while keeping it viable option. I personally would only make so Engie using it would not be able to get metal from cart. At all. Not just when equipped. At all. But other than that SC is good as it is.

[@captaingoomba6907]

@@nihili4196 Removing the ability for the engineer to get metal from a cart (Even assuming it treats the payload cart seperately and not like a level 1 dispenser, which is what the payload cart is) would probably kill the weapon for the most part. If we gave it the "No metal from payload carts while active" downside, here's how things would turn out: You're sitting on the payload cart. You've fired three energy balls, so you're out of metal. Now, in order to even be able to fire another ball, you need to: Put away the weapon, which takes about 0.67 seconds Wait about one or two seconds for the cart to refill your metal to 85, Switch back to the short circuit which is another 0.67 seconds and only now you can use the alt-fire again, and in that time you've been basically unable to repair any of your buildings or protect yourself or your team from spam at all. That's all in all about a 2-3 second period of time, which is a really long time between shots. A demoman can fire and detonate 2 or 3 stickies in that time, which can and will kill an engineer if he's caught out by them. Now, let's see the same situation if you straight up can't refill your metal from the cart at all while you have the short circuit in your current loadout: You're sitting on the payload cart. You've fired three energy balls, meaning you're out of metal. You literally do not have a secondary weapon until you find an ammo pack. Until you find that ammo or (Assuming the best case scenario where you're actually allowed to take metal from it) a dispenser, you're stuck with your shotgun and at best 5 metal to heal one of your buildings a negligible amount. See the problem?

[@nihili4196]

@@captaingoomba6907 Making engie unable to get metal from the cart would probably kill the weapon on payload, yes... But Payload is not the only mode to play. SC is perfectly fine in every other mode, so why changing weapon completely when you can nerf it only in one mode where it's busted as hell. In every other game mode engie has to look for ammo packs anyways. Also, I don't see why engie would be unable to use dispensers. They're only similar, since dispencer have to replenish its reserve. I think it wouldn't be too hard to make Engie unable to use one while able to use other. SC is perfectly fine weapon in every other mode. Hell, if wrangler ever got nerfed in any way, this weapon would be viable for MvM.

[@hirotrum6810]

The old version was still banned for simply being more metal efficient than tanking and repairing. I'd probably nerf the weapon by just giving it a 10-15 second cooldown

[@TKsh1]

sleep: Engineer secondary that deletes Soldier and Demoman (two meta classes) projectiles woke: haha w+m1 phlog go *C R I T I C A L H I T*

[@drivanradosivic1357]

I would make the Phlog go from Crits to minicrits(with a MVM upgrade to crits), with this in mind a 50HP on Mphhh activation that can overheal(if you are 150HP, you get 200HPaka 175HP normal and 25HP overheal) and alt fire is the delete ball of the short circuit with similar ammo usage.

[@ezrac704]

@@drivanradosivic1357 I would just make the damage requirement to be damage with primary. You can just scorch shot spam till mmph. I would also add a second meter which is labeled "power". It controls damage and decreases as the weapon is fired. This nerfs the w+m1 strategy.

[@noximilienqc7207]

at least for the pyro it's pretty easy to kill. I can just be soldier, shot and they can't do shit.

[@Finneagan]

Right, and the medic's medigun is also a problem because it benefits his team more than himself.

[@Springy05]

Man I loved that THX intro XDDD

[@aliteraldumpsterfire672]

*WHAT IN THE COMMIE CRAP WAS THAT*

[@tf2engineer]

One easy fix for the time being is to remove the ability to get metal from the cart while equipping the short circuit. A lot of those clips involved an engi sitting on the cart, and it would be harder to spam if you just had to rely on a dispenser.

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

suddenly all those unbeatable snipers that can headshot a pin across a football field are nowhere to be found. what's the matter with people suddenly stopping to use their brains when they're most needed? if you see an engi spamming a short circuit, PLAY A CLASS THAT SHOOTS BULLETS! how hard is it!?

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

@@bcn1gh7h4wk or wait for him to use up all his metal and then kill him with ease.

[@seokkyunhong8812]

Oh noes, a support class has option to use a support weapon draining resources that are used to make his primary support abilities. How dare a support class support the team.

[@mohammadwaled409]

Well the problem is whether or not it supports the TOO much and considering how balanced tf2 is in general we are kind of splitting hairs here

[@mohammadwaled409]

@Pure_Steve _1153 of course the engie will run out of metal before the enemy runs out of spam but if the engineer has teammates around he basically gave them a bunch of free shots giving a massive advantage to his team

[@galacticgamer6635]

@@mohammadwaled409 So your telling me, that the entire team is consisted of demos of soldiers with no heavies, pyros, or scouts. That's called horrible team composition.

[@mohammadwaled409]

@@galacticgamer6635 true but point is your giving your team a big advantage over two of the strongest classes in the game Also it can be spammed next ro the payload cart very easily and denying crowd control classes like demo from touching the cart is a big deal

[@mohammadwaled409]

@mehdi Haddou fair

[@broom673]

After playing Engie and using the short circuit for a while, I have to say all of the reasons for it being broken almost entirely apply only to when you're glued to a dispenser or the cart. Spamming this thing in any other scenario leaves you defenseless afterwards and completely unable to place new buildings or repair existing ones. I think it's annoying to fight against but my opinion on it has changed dramatically after using it for myself. I think it's a well balanced secondary for the most part that tends to really only be a nightmare to fight against when the Engie is inhaling metal from the cart spamming it like crazy. With that said, I would probably just reduce how much metal he gets from the cart, and even dispensers possibly, while the short circuit is equipped or active.

[@LightningCayo]

The secondary fire is just Vegeta’s Big Bang Attack

[@Outrage_MK2]

soldier: *uses escape plan and runs away* engineer: "HERE IT COMES! A LITTLE GOING AWAY PRESENT FOR YOU!"

[@giovi9741]

@@Outrage_MK2 *the ball fades before hitting the soldier*

[@PurpleFreezerPage]

I think it’s kindof a desperate argument to compare the short circuit to full invincibility.

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

We just gonna ignore hitscan, or anything that isn't a projectile.

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

The all projectiles portion makes it sound way more hyped than it really is tbh. Very few of the projectiles deleted by the Short Circuit you'll ever see be used in the frontlines, some even being primarily used as support (such as a crossbow arrow, or Jarate) or just unviable (like the gas passer). Also, on non-payload maps and maps that lack ammo boxes, -65 Metal means that it's much harder to upgrade buildings and repair them if they get damaged, which hurts even more without the Gunslinger since using the SC once and then building a sentry leaves you with just 5 Metal, and using it twice means you only have 70 Metal at most left, which can't even build 2 teleporters. If there needs to be a nerf, I would say make it so the wearer can't get metal from the Payload cart, since payload offense is the only real scenario where this weapon is too powerful.

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

Honestly I feel embarassed because of this post because after more experience I think Zesty here is too generous with this piece of shit weapon.

[@demolisherman1763]

I feel like your second idea where it deflects it is open for too much trolling

[@kingjensen8091]

You're a soldier main, therefore you hate the short circuit

[@nadroji6549]

If they revert the SC, no one would use it, no one used it back then b/c it did shit dame & you could only delete 1 projectile at a time, which means a Soldier/Demo could still spam & destroy everything or a Demo/Soldier could team up & have one distract the Engie & have the other take everything out. If they SC just redirect everything, this would be worse, not only would everyone just verbally abuse the Engie for using the SC, but now you'r putting your nest/teammates in danger, when it would be more efficient to doge the projectiles, this would also encourage more spam, b/c now Demos/Soldiers just have to aim at Engie & let him kill your team/destroy his own nest. You know, Pyro can deflect all projectiles as well, you know what people do against Pyros? They pull out their guns & shoot him, Pyro would then have to switch to his gun/flare to combat them, then the enemy just pulls back out their Launcher & fire at the Pyro, even if Pyro switches back to defend, he should have low enough HP to finish him off w/ your fun. Just do the same w/ Engie, plus the SC Blast is slow & gigantic, so just doge it or fire 3 rockets/pills/stickies so Engie depletes his blasts & now he/his team/buildings are defensiveness, so now you go in for the kill. The best solution would be to just have the SC Blast defect the projectiles back at the enemy, like the air blast, people love Pyro's air blast, so the SC Blast would also be loved if it worked the same.

[@averagecupofjoe8868]

0:12 *it's happening! OH GOD ITS HAPPENING*

[@morales6224]

Video: This video contains: Me: Opinions. Video: Opinions. Me: Proceeds to lose shit.

[@gartinmarrix4841]

The reason why it is op in 6v6 and not pubs: 1. There are only 2 soldiers and 1 demo max in 6v6. You can run a billion soldiers and demos in pubs and one short circuit ain't gonna cut it (from experience) 2. Short circuit is primarily banned in 6v6 cuz engie is used on last pushes to defend and not being run full time. Short circuit makes last pushes even harder and stalemate-y. An engie can camp inside of spawn and use the resuply cabinet to shoot infinite orbs while a pub engie has to rely on a dispenser/ammo pickups/ payload to restock the short circuit ammo. In conclusion, it's good in denying last pushes but inconsistent and unreliable for general use. Keep it banned in 6v6 but for pubs, it's not an issue.

[@bbdanny]

it takes good metal management, some timing and aim. the only time i see people complaining about it is when it's being spammed from spawn for example: blu's spawn on dustbowl 1st point, and sometimes when spammed on the payload

[@jacobboggs71]

A scout (maybe), pyro (maybe), another short circuit engie, heavy, or sniper could easily counter a trigger happy short circuit engie. Especially heavy and sniper. Between sniper's long range insta kill and heavy's high dps and massive health pool they have the best chance of taking one out

[@leonardo9259]

Exactly, there's so many classes that completely negate others, like heavy -> demoknight, pyro-> spy, and spy-> heavy But do you see people whining about heavy being OP, or pyro being not fun to play against as spy? No, you just play differently and counter them

[@jeezuhskriste5759]

Me, having never played TF2: YEAH FUCK THE SHORT CIRCUIT

[@Luciferirl]

NOOOO YOU CANT JUST REMOVE MY ROCKETS! haha short circuit zap

[@smittywerbenjaegermanjense4035]

The soldier can just remember that he has a shotgun for a reason and the demo grenade arc makes it difficult to delete with the orb. Or the soldier/demo player can just wait until the engineer drains all his metal firing three shots and finish him off. The only real instance where the Short Circuit is overpowered is using it on the payload cart and even then it's only effective against projectile-based classes and he can easily be dealt with using hitscan. Outside of that situation Engineers who mindlessly right-click with the SC will be a nuisance at most. Or you can just play a hitscan class and sidestep the SC's main function if you have such a burning hatred for what is essentially a discount, less damaging, less consistent airblast.

[@blazinbraixen9067]

Ok here's my problem with your argument majority of weapons in the game are hitscan engineer essentially becomes pyro in that a soldier or demo has to play around it and the ball doesn't do nearly enough damage to justify the status of broken. It's just a slightly more reliable air blast with a significantly lower dps as you're exchanging reflect crits for limited damage.

[@ReiCaixa]

Phlog W+M1 users: fine Short Circuit battle Engi riding the Payload: C-A-N-C-E-R

[@Ninnybottoms]

As a demo main, when an engi just spams the orb, I just switch to caber knight and focus him to ruin his day

[@I_Hate_The_Antichrist]

ok kaboomer.

[@noximilienqc7207]

And the engie get out with one hp.

[@adynatos4130]

Powe move.

[@45.chuminh81]

Lmao how did he "spam" it? Unless he is sitting next to a payload cart, that guy will run out of metal in 3 shot. And if he is using the SC, he is gonna be a battle engie, and good luck killing the 150-health-guy haha

[@RustyTExcel]

Ironic that a weapon designed to fight against spam attacks became a spam weapon itself