TF2 - Stickies vs Pipes

An age old question, what's better the Sticky or the Pipe? Both are situational and have their usages but what do the pros use the majority of the time? I take a look at some high level data on three pro TF2 players to discover how often they use each weapon.
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[@socialist-strong]

To be fair, medic's secondary is his medigun, but for all intents and purposes it's his first.

[@tomato_tom]

yeah exactly, grenade launcher just feels more like a primary weapon and so does syringe gun, even though they are used less than secondary

[@wasteman6069]

Atleastusingthemedigunmakespeoplehappy.

[@PassTheSnails]

Spy’s “primary weapon” is his knife, he even spawns with it out first.

[@TheONLYFeli0]

tomato tom you use sticky more than grenades? ARE YOU INSANE

[@alienbastard55]

@@TheONLYFeli0 the video is literally about how that's the right way to play

[@einarzettergren3033]

70 - 30 makes complete sense! pipe has 4 ammo clip, stickies have 8. So in total demo has a 12 ammo clip where 66% of the ammo are stickies and 33% are pipes.

[@sorrow1106]

where is the 1 percent? The melee?

[@tomato_tom]

That is a pretty good point, but at the same time its more than just that, that is slightly coincidence and slightly the need to continue firing rather than reloading the sticky bombs

[@zinqtable1092]

I was just about to comment that!

[@moisesherrera325]

Well, when tf2 was first released the pipe launcher was the secondary and the sticky launcher was his primary Either that or I totally pulled that one out of my ass

[@tappajaav]

I doubt that Moises, because the developers intended sticky launcher to be used mostly for creating traps.

[@ToxicBastard]

demo is practically the only class with two primaries It's also really cool how he gradually gets stronger the longer he stays somewhere by setting stickies, he's like engineer in that way

[@lepatrick4596]

Laughs in sticky spam

[@imallsoupedup]

Spy also, but no one plays him in comp lol

[@allessandro2390]

... medic?

[@ToxicBastard]

@@allessandro2390 Medic's primary is his secondary

[@smokertonrkingofclownscatc1136]

"During development, I think they intended the pipe launcher to be the primary weapon as it's in the primary slot" Very astute.

[@Nashi_likes_games]

Well, the "trap only" version of the Stickbomb Launcher is the Scottish Resistance. But, overall, if they wanted to make it "trap specific", I'm pretty sure making it able to only explode when it's on a surface would've done the trick.

[@silvorthegrand6976]

Well i do not think that the Demo was ever meant to spam. The low clip of the grenade launcher back that up. As you said, the bomb arm time should start when the stickie hits the ground. Otherwise you get demos running around constantly clicking M1 and M2 at the same time.

[@kellymccarthy7109]

@@silvorthegrand6976 The grenade launcher used to be a 6 clip. It was nerfed because it was too good. I think the main problem with stickies is their short arm time, I use the stickybomb launcher alot and most of my kills with the stickybomb launcher is from stacking two or three in an area and waiting for my opponent to walk ontop of or near them.

[@silvorthegrand6976]

@@kellymccarthy7109 Like it was intended. Not clicking M1 and M2 constantly as soon as an enemy is in sight.

[@frostbite5081]

@@silvorthegrand6976 Hey if it works, it just works. Plus don't you think the TF2 devs would've easily changed it if that wasn't one of its intended uses?

[@silvorthegrand6976]

@@frostbite5081 If you need to see the idea of the devs behind the stickies, look no further than meet the demoman. Also I do not think they would have been able to change it. The Demo mains would have been pissed off about that and the outrage of this part of the community might force the changelog back or some people might quit the game. Plus, have you considered how overpowered it makes the demo? 8 Stickies + 4 Pipes. I get it if people use it. It is REALLY good, but also extremely unfun to play against and, i would argue, with. So, please become a pipe jesus instead.

[@FlairTF2]

Spam pills, get kills. Spam sticks, get picks.

[@ethhics]

no

[@mago474]

picks?

[@ethhics]

More like "Spam pills, no skills. Spam sticks, spawn-pick"

[@Kevin-um1nq]

ethics no I use pills f u

[@axis7235]

You are commenting on every tf2 video now..... You're the new meep moop.

[@Toofty]

Sweet stats bro

[@doommaker4000]

Sticky bomb launcher used to be in primary slot

[@aztecharomor]

After watching your video, I thought of a custom weapon for demo that may help sort out this issue. I was wondering what your thoughts on such a weapon might be. Flack Cannon: - 15 % damage, - 5 % projectile speed, - no rollers (like the loch-n-load), + 10 % blast radius, + automatically detonates when near an enemy

[@rednael6526]

tftv actualy used to show weapon usage sometimes in i series and if you download the logs you can hoover over their stats and see how many kills each weapon got.

[@Toofty]

@DJ LA I literally had the exact same idea! I was going to do a Demo weapon concept video for a bit of fun and I called one the Flack Cannon! My idea was a little different though, you still had to detonate yourself but there was no arm time. Hopefully I'll get this video out one day.

[@Toofty]

@rednael Interesting, thanks!

[@baoweexd]

Pipes = More fun Stickies = More useful

[@goldenhorde6944]

If you're bad at stickies then sure

[@KevinLanguasco]

this is by far my favorite tf2 channel now. keep up with the quality content

[@Toofty]

wow high praise! Thanks Kevin

[@koalateacontent5094]

If i could think of a way to balance these two weapons, I would say give the piper its old 6/24, and give the sticky a considerable nerf: +.3s det time in general. Demo is certainly the best class (ignoring sniper on any map with a central area more than 60 feet wide because of his lack of falloff on a pinpoint hitscan weapon). This nerfs demo overall a tiny bit, and requires more accuracy, which will also help scouts with good maneuverability dodge him more easily since you can't m1 the ground to try and force a scout away (although scout already does great vs a demo without godlike pipe aim). This would also serve as an indirect buff to scot res (now only .5s slower). the delay would have half the effect on quickybomb launcher also, with it being reverted to its old version where they fizzled and it had 6 clip size.

[@ZERO-tv5zg]

+Brandon Hitchcock PLEASE NOOOOOO

[@koalateacontent5094]

any reasoning besides screaming no? if yo think demo will get more spammy, it will make m1m2 a fair bit less effective. demos with good pipe aim weren't that much more effective than mediocre m1m2-ers, despite having needing much more aim and prediction. idk, I wanna see pipe bomb launcher get a nerf though.

[@ZERO-tv5zg]

Brandon Hitchcock I am basically a pipe-main. I need to get good with stickies. But I think a little bit slower det time will kill them. I think a good buff for demo is reduce the self-damage.

[@MurdocNiccolas]

The Demoman is my favorite class, but I use the pipes more, I would say in the reverse to you. I tend to use the pipes for direct encounters and the stickies for traps and jumps. I kinda feel cheap when I sticky spam, but I really should not, it's not like a soldier feels bad when he rockets spam, so why should I?

[@stickyrice.j]

Yo Murdoc, when's your next album coming out?

[@sorryperson92]

Murdoc Niccolas I feel the same way too, so I tend to reverse the ratio of stickies vs pipes; 70 percent pipes vs 30 percent stickies. I only use stickies when I feel like my pipes aren't hitting; eg when dealing with unpredictable targets like scouts.

[@jefsimons4216]

Underusing stickies is the sign of an inexperienced demoman. Treat stickies as a primary and pipes as a way to finish of your enemies.

[@tomato_tom]

Do you mean comp or pubs? Because pipes are better for killing people, but stickies are better for doing a lot of damage that your team can easily clean up. But in pubs there's really not much cleaning up that your team does, because it is a pub.

[@frostbite5081]

@@Chris-vs9so Rather be a dirty fuckstain. A reliable dirty fuckstain that can deal damage whenever he needs to. Don't get me wrong pipes are love and life but when you ever miss all 4 pipes in your clip, you gotta do what you gotta do to get them kills.

[@doommaker4000]

Sticky bomb launcher used to be in primary slot

[@pebl7735]

It used to be the primary.

[@johnchong7664]

Originally the Sticky Bomb Launcher was intended to be in the primary slot.

[@pebl7735]

I like how he changed his comment to "Sticky bomb launcher used to be in primary slot" afterwards.

[@doommaker4000]

Hell, what did i write? Pipe bomb? Or secondary slot? I really don't remember. And this is waht i meant to write. If you wrote answer before i changed it, then i'm sorry for confusion :)

[@Ziamangry]

Except the sticky was the first primary

[@cornsoup4131]

Really cool that you did this. Really well done!

[@boogiemantf2912]

The amount of time you put into these videos is astounding to say the least. Awesome stuff and very helpful :)

[@NanaKyoto]

Pipes are more effective when in places where the sticky launcher seems impractical, like narrow corridors and being pursued by multiple enemies, you cannot wait that long for your stickies to be armed and that's where the pipe launcher comes into play, since the area is narrow they cannot maneuver around it and direct hits deal massive damage. When in more open areas, the best way of dealing direct hits with the pipe launcher is fully understanding the arc they travel and anticipating player movements.

[@CoolPotato1000]

In comp, pipes are generally only used as a self defence tool against scouts, or for spamming choke points.

[@dukefisean6758]

when I think of a skilled demoman, I don't think of them as always using pipes, I think of them as hitting pipes almost all the time, when they are used.

[@hoenntrainer3422]

I'm fairly certain the reason people call Sticky Spammers rubbish, is because the Stickies outright require less skill than a direct Pipe. Getting direct hits with Pipes is fairly difficult depending on the class and you only have 4 shots. Stickies do not need to be a direct hit in order to deal massive damage. You of course still have to aim, but you have a large range to hit unlike Pipes. One reason Pros use Stickies is literally because it's easier to get kills. Why try to hit Pipes and miss when you could just throw Stickies and get the same kill far faster and with less hassle? Maybe the Grenade launcher should get a buff, like 6 shots instead of 4, the way it was planned. Though at this point, they'll never change it.

[@ignaz7612]

The only KZbinr that still greets you with „Peeps“.

[@EkiTheIdiot]

This is a cool idea. And editing is awesomez

[@ducksi1]

I think stickies are on the secondary slot is because the unlocks for most classes have the most game changing items in the secondary slot. Soldier with gunboats, heavy with sanvich, medic with the different mediguns, etc., exceptions being engie and spy(but they're often an exception in terms of weapons anyway)

[@snailey7342]

I use pipes for 1v1s, and I use stickies for dealing out damage, fighting multiple enemies. Just happens that the latter situation is more common when playing demoman

[@snwoop7921]

"Stickybomb launcher vs Pipe-bomb launcher." I think it's called a "Grenade launcher"

[@thomasdarista2782]

I also use pipes at closer range, in tunnels, or if an enemy is focusing me in particular, and I need something to quickly dispatch them.

[@julianbo5870]

My idea: Once you detonate your stickies you have to wait a small amount of time to be able to shoot new ones

[@g2ltt733]

Ahem... scottish resistance

[@parkerf6649]

@@g2ltt733 it literally has a faster firing speed. The only difference is .8seconds slower arm time

[@Riri-o2]

Fun fact: When the game launched the Sticky Launcher WAS the primary. This was quickly switched tho.

[@someguy1716]

I wish demoman had a shotgun instead of stickies

[@martijnbakker1277]

The pipe launcher should simply have a bigger explosive range to make it more viable for spam. They did however remove it for a reason.

[@jacklocklear8546]

My friend had the idea to make the stickies unable to detonate unless they've made contact with a surface. I think this change would make more of an equal divide in the use of the weapons. And it'd also cut down on all those annoying deaths everyone suffers to a Kritzed demo marauding the entire enemy team with airborne nukes.

[@palm9030]

Huh, I used to use my stickies a lot but after being able to hit pipes more consistently I kinda just neglected sticky spamming. It is a very powerful weapon though. Those pipe shots are so fun!

[@tomato_tom]

Sticky bomb launcher as your primary, Grenade launcher to hit airshots, close to medium range, and to spam while you have a trap

[@mr.nyanheres3592]

Jeremy Nuiscence yep that's my strat

[@brysonjones8279]

FINALLY. A KZbin channel that's serious about tips and tricks for the Demoman class. Thank god I found you Toofy, I love Demoman.

[@IsacMH]

An idea I've had based on some things Sirky has said about Demoman is to make stickies only be able to be placed in groups of 4 and detonate on proximity when an enemy goes near it. Increasing the time it takes to reload, fire and ready the sticky would make it way less offensive and forced to be used as area denial. This area denial could be to either close off a choke or shooting at an enemy's feet and would do more of the same thing the stickies do now. Forcing the enemy away from them. But as a spam tool it'd be far less effective. Not that I think something like this would ever happen but that's my take on how to nerf the sticky without making it useless

[@BigDaddy-je2nq]

I like shooting stickies when there's an advantage point, like if i see a medic and solider hiding away building uber I put 5 stickies down, if they come at you just shoot pipes, if they don't move before the arm time than right click

[@tameronica]

At first, I thought you were weird to use the sticky bomb launcher so much, but then when I started playing more demo man, I noticed that I start to use the sticky bomb more.

[@garmdianmelonking5211]

I feel like the pipes are used for hard direct damage while the sticky is a burst or trap gun. small bursts allow for quicker extended damage but the pipes if accurate can deal TONS of damage and rollers can take out nests

[@link2125]

I tend to prefer using the pipe launcher over the sticky launcher as my main source of damage, as it's easier for me to simply lob a pipe at my target than to gauge where my sticky is going to be when it's armed. Perhaps with more practice I'll feel it out, but at the moment I tend to use stickies as traps and to block off escapes and health sources, as well as to deal with sentries indirectly.

[@moogod1185]

Stickybomb launcher used to be in the primary slot, it got changed with the addition of shields (Targe)

[@bonkboy6242]

great well thought out video! I think the sticky launcher is alot more useful just because of its spamability (if you could call it that).

[@GCJACK83]

I think the stickies are more useful, especially if you know how to jump with them. Great for mobility. Pipes are less useful mobility-wise, but good for spamming into a choke where they'll be bouncing around and hitting players trying to get through.

[@ByWho-js5bq]

I only use the stickey when my clip runs out or when making semi traps because I feel like it takes to long to reload the sticky, and also I use the iron so the pills don't just role away if I miss I also typically rank 4th in casual so

[@whirl3690]

If I could change anything regarding the Sticky Launcher and Grenade Launcher, I would switch the slots so the Grenade Launcher is the secondary and the Stickybomb Launcher is the primary, and then change the models to make the Stickybomb Launcher larger, more like a primary weapon and make the Grenade Launcher smaller, more like a secondary. This would probably reduce trash-talk against Demomen for primarily using stickies.

[@jake-ip9vg]

sticky spam is a lot like bodyshoting as sniper. its the easiest, most consistent way to dish out damage, but your gonna get yelled t, and pipes are like headshotting. it does more damage, but less consistent and harder to hit, and less people yell at you

[@ludidas]

Wow, I am severely under using the stickbomb launcher then. I should try using it more often in games.

[@pkfire5790]

imo, i like to spam pipes down chokes because that's their general use, since it keeps the enemies always on their toes. but on direct encounters i spam stickies

[@TheCaboose568]

Here's what they could do. Change the pipe launcher to have 6 shots again and a slightly larger blast radius Change the sticky launcher to detonate a few seconds after landing, about 2-3. This way you can't air detonate and players have to rely on their pipes when using stock. They're strong enough as is, so no need to tweak. Make the quickie launcher work how the current sticky launcher does, make it the only one capable of aerial detonation but make the blast radius a bit smaller. Also make it weaker when a sticky rests for a few seconds, making it worse for traps. Hell while we're at it, give him a new sticky launcher focused on making better traps. The scottish resistance is good for locking down areas, stock is overall, quickie for offensive, lets make one that has a long arming time, larger AoE, and instead of detonating them you prime them to last maybe 10 seconds in which they explode when someone gets close. Give the quickie a reason to exist, gives the pipes a good reason to exist, and prevents sticky spam (Which should never be considered a pro tactic. Even I can do that shit effectively.) Also would change demo from the spam class to the trapping defensive class it was meant to be, with the demoknights being the offensive counterpart.

[@labrador2818]

Stickybomb is mainly used to zone people and to keep people out of specific places while pipes are used mainly to output more dps and kill targets running at you.

[@EmptyBodies]

Go back to the old intro, I miss it D:

[@berbclone3016]

If Valve really wanted to make the grenade launcher the demoman's primary weapon, they should add -2 seconds fuse time when it hits a wall or ground.

[@onewhosaysgoose4831]

You can't really get an airshot with a sticky, but you can get an airshot with QBL. Honestly its probably the 2nd best projectile for airshots outside of close range (behind the direct hit's minicrits).

[@raptormage2209]

personaly i use pipes about 90% to 95% of the time since sticky spamming can be incredibly annoying for the enemy so i prefer to use the grenade launcher to deal with most people and i got a pretty okay aim but i do miss horribly from time to time while only using my sticky launcher for traps or area denial

[@ShadowHunter120]

note how all pipe launchers aside from the iron bomber have 50% difference between visual and actual clip sizes.

[@augustinbergeot2260]

very good video !

[@alfredkruse1517]

Okay, so here's the loadout I use: Stock Grenade Launcher Tide Turner The Katana (Don't know how to spell its real name) It's a half demoknight loadout. I want to become better with my pipes, so I'm combining my favourite demoknight loadout (the loadout above, but with Bootleggers instead) with the grenade launcher so I'm forced to use it instead of the sticky launcher. But problem is, I suck at using stickies too. What should I do?

[@leostando3871]

Pipes used to be able to explode on enemies on contact after hitting a surface. I think they should be able to do that again, either that or bring back the 6 grenades per reload.

[@Skinned_fried_n_cut_up_potato]

I use stock demo now after using the grenade-launcher where the pipes don't roll for a long time

[@ismaeeljafar6213]

Man i love this guys voice.

[@archiespeople3219]

The sticky gun takes more time to reload and placing sticky things but the pipe gun takes less time to reload and more damage to do so you don't need to use it as much.

[@oldaccount5477]

Grenade launcher for me, its just the OODLES AND BOODLES of damage like a constant 300-400 damage and spamming it in a crowded area is really satisfying!

[@bryanandrews9193]

I remember he was supposed to have throwable dynamite. That looked useful but may have just been a throwable caber in a sense.

[@merc6961]

I use Pipes for Medium Range and make 2 rollers and the others Direct Hits to trap them and Stickies when I have no ammo on the Pipe's clip or when I don't want to use the Pipes but I use the stickies more tho.

[@teeby2037]

Never used the sticky launcher, as i main half demoknight. Really hate fighting and playing stickys

[@mr.hankeythexmaspooteamhea6136]

Roy tell me about it, the Scottish Resistance should have been the stock weapon, not the sticky spammer we have.

[@stellarfox5869]

so when valve added the sticky bomb launcher as another weapon it would be statistically better and who is p2p/lucky with drops has an advantage versus people that dont have it

[@trunguss]

I use this Grenade launcher a lot more but only because I'm used to using my primary.

[@HellishSpoon]

grenade lunchr is secondary in tf2 alpha.

[@u8qu1tis]

It makes sense. The sticky launcher has 8 bombs in a clip and the grenade launcher has 4, leading to a base level 66% to 33% advantage for the pipes. Combine that with the more reliable damage from the stickies, and the sticky should have an advantage.

[@BartixShieldsmen]

While I am no means a good demoman (despite sitting here discussing it) I found personally that while I usually deal damage with my stickybomb launcher when I go hybrid knight my pills feel a lot more consistent and I feel like I hit more shots than when I have a sticky bomb launcher, this most likely is because you get a feel for pills over the course of a game but just thought it an interesting point

[@thevaporeonkid3456]

I personally use the iron bomber over stock because the pills don't roll as much

[@truwak]

Lol

[@somerandomname3022]

Just like a sticky

[@CoolPotato1000]

TheVaporeonKid In higher level play, when the players use the pipe launcher, it is either 100 damage directs, or 0 damage misses. Every pipe that hits the ground is pretty much useless.

[@oskaripeurala2612]

I feel like the bounce and roll is better, because of how you can shoot it further,(since they roll) and how you can shoot it off a wall to the other side of a corner.

[@itsasecrettoevery1]

i use stock because if you miss with stock, it rolls around so it has a bigger chance of hitting their targets. But with no rollers, the enemy will just walk away and the smaller splash radius doesn’t help either. Not only that but the smaller explosion rate makes killing groups harder.

[@DarrielOni]

"The sticky launcher is not a crutch, Demo players are just skilled." _Valve slightly nerfs Sticky Launcher_ " *WHAT THE FUCK DEMOMAN IS USELESS NOW HOLY FUCKING SHIT STOP BEING SO SALTY GUYS IT WASN'T A CRUTCH BUT NOW THAT IT GOT NERFED THIS CLASS IS POWERLESS AND ALL OF THE PRO DEMO STRATS ARE OBSOLETE FUCK* " I'm bad at baiting.

[@greasemonkey5648]

The stickybomb launcher is my favorite weapon in the game.

[@engineer6782]

I use stickies for crowd control/damage, putting pressure on a choke point, area control, and a backup damage dealer in a 1v1 situation; and your grenade launcher in combat (1v1/2/etc.) situations, or spamming out a densely compact crowd of people at a distance where charging a sticky isn't worth it.] Edit: Also stickies can be used for traps. I don't use traps very often though because defensive Demo is kind of boring to me.

[@stewartsaurus5796]

Before I never liked the sticky jumper but the new sound effects makes me LOVE the sticky jumper.

[@adostra688]

Stewartsaurus I fucking hate the new one - they completely ruined it imo

[@dcarterm8371]

Fuzzy Socks There was no way to tell if it was a skin.

[@reslario]

I also main Demo (no, I don't play competitively) but never use stock stickies. The Sticky Jumper is just way more fun and interesting to use in my opinion, and that to me is way more important than having a high amount of points in a pub (not saying that you can't do that without stickies but it's definitely easier).

[@kohlrabi1363]

Originally the gl had 6 shots which is why it was the primary, rollers also did more damage.

[@thatredspy7809]

I use Pipes as a more area control and Area denial tool i use it aswell as my pipes but the area denial reliabilty and area control is just so good! Yes you can spam pipes but it is ineffective taking away chip damage and stickies are more needed for that, while the Grenade launcher is paced into emergency type situations like, getting out damage faster and for maybe even self defense, it can also be used to push through groups. Of people since if you used the stickies for that yes it may have more damage done and killed alot of people but it is slow the grenade launcher whislt only having 4 pipes is great against groups of people and if you combine the sticky bomb launcher and the grenade launcher and not just stick one weapon you can be a menacing threat if you can use your stickies correctly and aim your pipes good, beacause i can tell you that from first hand experiences that if both of these used correctly you can sometimes singlehandedly push an entire team or hold off and entire team And thats all (Btw this is my opinion on how i like to play stock demo weapons )

[@Nozomu564]

Simple: don't take grenades' direct hit ability if they only bounced once from non-walkable surface (something like 45 or 60 deg+). It would make skill ceiling a little higher and more fun to use pipes.

[@jackhudner3804]

If the grenade launcher were to still have 6 shots, then they would probably have to put the sticky bomb launcher's clip down to 6 to be balanced. Even then though, I think that the sticky bomb launcher would be used more often.

[@Twoplustwoequalsfive221]

Honestly , i prefer using more the pipes , they do a constant 100 damage and (i think) it's more reliable on a 1v1 with most classes (except scout of course). I find stickies more useful when it comes to taking out sentrynests or fighting scouts and firing on chokes . Also , pipes are better when you get attacked from behind and you need to fire as quick as possible ( pipes will do damage instantly while with stickies you have to wait to arm before detonate )

[@lehti_pihvi]

Good youtuber thumb up for you Keep doing good videos :)

[@frostbite5081]

There's a reason they named it the "Stickybomb launcher" and not something like "Sticky trap launcher"

[@MooseChicken]

Grenade Launcher ---------------------------- - Deals good consistent damage - Bombs go very far Stickybomb Launcher ---------------------------- - Makes nice clicking sounds - Trapping is fun as hell.

[@VahiMangai]

"Demoman was a mistake" -TooftyTv

[@sgt.konahem2528]

Maybe they could've made it that stickies do more damage the longer they stick? That would've most probably made the Pipe launcher the primary

[@thomasferlauto7981]

Make the sticky launcher reload 1 sticky a second initially, and take of 0.1 seconds each sticky reloaded consecutively- this way, it's faster to reload out of combat, but near impossible to load while out of combat. Also make airborne sticky detonations to 25% less damage to grounded targets, but minicrit on airborne targets- as that way you're rewarded for your skill/ punish their jumping away from your other explosives. More importantly I'd change the grenade launcher, with the 6 pills per mag, 10% slower fire rate- (to make it less spammy & luck based) and have the detonation based on bounces, rather than fuse time- with the third bounce detonating the pill (at no loss in damage- splash degradation still applies, so direct hits will always be better) but since there is no rolling, the pills are always sensitive to enemy contact- meaning as long as your pill touches them- no matter how, it will detonate, dealing the full 100 damage.

[@sulphurous2656]

Grenade launcher is far more difficult to use, so many people use the stickybomb launcher at most if not all times as a crutch. You can easily tell a good demoman apart from a bad demoman just based off their weapons of choice. But most of the time, these are situational weapons. I'd generally say a map like cp_metalworks, dustbowl or 2nd or 3rd stage of thundermountain works best for both weapons, but still always favors the stickybomb launcher.

[@commietearsdrinker]

Sulphurous my crutch is the loch. am i skilled yet?

[@edim108]

How to fix it up: -Up the time for stickies to arm -Up the number of stickies, you can have at the same time by like 2-4 more -Up the speed the pipes from stock go (not very much, but a considerable bit) -Lower the damage on individual stickies -Lower the speed you can launch the stickies (not too much tho) -And maybe up the number of pipes in a magazine to 6 (but that's a strong MAYBE) This way the sticky spam would be less viable and the stickies would be used as the Devs intended them- as a trap device for defence, not an offensive tool per se. That would also increase the viability of the Pipe Launcher and make it more viable in a role it was intended to be in- as an offensive weapon. I'm not saying that Valve team should do that (I am actually fine with the current meta), but if they wanted to do that, that's the way to go in my opinion... but as I said- I don't see this as necessary as the current meta is all fine to me :)

[@bagandtag4391]

I always thought that people that used the sticky launcher where way better demomen that the rest. I have a lot of problems to use the sticky launcher properly if it's not for traps or the quickbomb launcher. And usually the one that knows how to use the sticky becomes a pain in the ass in the entire match :s

[@caleb1505]

You should use pipes for a guaranteed amount of 100 damage and satisfaction and close range, while you should use the stickies for holding down choke points, mobility, and constant blows of splash damage. So it depends if you are taking a more aggresive or defensive playstyle

[@DuckSwagington]

I'm more of a pipe guy. I love using them and in some situations they're better then stickies. Take Short to mid range combat. Yeah you can used your stickies but you can airblurst them at a short distance to negate the fall off of stuck stickies. Pipes are always a good choice to scare players off if you're good at them, luckily for me, I can hit my pipes. I use my stickies to back up my pipes and to lure players into traps. I've never snubbed the power of the SBL but i perfer constant, easily calculable damage. So, pipes. I treat them as the direct hit and rocket launcher. (I'll let you guess which one is which) the GL for 1v1, 1v2 and 1v3 MAXIMUM. and more and I use the SBL

[@toanphan5651]

Awesome intro

[@chillsgaming1900]

I use pipes when spamming down narrow corridors. On a different note, people need to understand what is sticky spamming. People think that if you just put stickies down where enemies are its spamming. Demos put stickies down where they think people will go so they can set up a trap. It doesn't matter how old the trap is but rather more on how effective it is.

[@floppy-disko2378]

I'm a demo main and I almost use only pipes, becouse when I started I thought sticky launcher wasnt good, now I think it is a little bit op, maybe Valve should reduce stickies damege when you are not so close to th explosion.

[@garethlamb6923]

I find sticky spam to not be great as it is taking away from the purpose of the weapon. They could put in a timer so stickies deal a lot less damage when they are initially primed, which ramps up to full damage as time passes. This would make sticky spam less viable, but allow traps to still be effective.

[@stiylmagnus4217]

I suck with stickies(yes, I'm bad with the fucking stickybomb launcher.) so I just use the tide turner, pipe launcher and the stock(ham shank or pan) Melee. And it's just so satisfying to hit players with the pipes.

[@theos78]

カウボーイネコ found you

[@itsthespycrab7581]

I find both to be used around 50/50 for me. I use the stickybomb launcher as a sentry-killer and for clearing a cart(if I'm out of pills), and the grenade launcher for smaller battles, when your getting chased, and for clearing the cart, because the splash damage is good, and the "pros" as people call them(which I find to be innacurate, because, not saying I can beat them, but it's really derogatory against players maining one of those classes and getting told, "Hey, this guy/these guys play this way and you should too or else your going to suck", clearly being told from personal experience) just get lazy when they use the sticky launcher as a "primary". Because most times, they use the Grenade Launcher as either a "yo, check this dope ass play out, sick airshot galore", or as a "shit, out of ammo, fuck it, shoot these too". At least that's what I've noticed and learned.

[@JecIsBec]

My input lag is too much to use the stickies in close range scenarios lol, but I'm actually good at the pill shooty thingo. That said, I'd say I use them about 50/50.

[@LmocinemodSD]

I like the way the Demoman is, but personally I'd like to see more pipes and less stickies. So I was thinking that maybe these changes would accomplish that: -Increase pipe launcher clip size from 4 to 6. -Allow pipes to be charged the same way you can with stickies. -Allow rollers to direct hit enemies again, but only when the pipes are airborne. -Reduce sticky launcher clip size from 8 to 6. -Reduce base sticky damage from 120 to 100. -Increase sticky arm time from 0.7s to 0.75s (mostly because 0.7s is a pretty arbitrary amount of time). Obviously the unlocks would need to be balanced around these changes, but I think it would encourage demos to use pipes more, without making stickies useless for direct combat.

[@KashKey-]

THIS. I like stickies myself, but this would be great.

[@justanalias5642]

I do not know this for sure, but I am 65% sure that the sticky launcher was the primary at first or the design mimicked the sticky launcher.

[@jackandy1736]

They should make the pipes explode on impact so even if you miss some scout by 1 cm you can still do damage

[@bernardonegri5416]

They do explode on impact, or do you mean with walls too?

[@jackandy1736]

@@bernardonegri5416 No they don't they just stay on the ground, maybye roll

[@e_bw5901]

not gonna lie, but your video on how to aim pipes got me into demo. Just the stickyjumper and pipe tip mainly, but now i love playing demo. i use pipes more than the sticky launcher cause its more fun, and i feel like it is quicker.

[@vietdong2552]

No, the developers themselves said that the StickyBomb Launcher was designed to be good on both offense and defense.

[@TiagoMendonca8591]

Seriously? Where did you find this?

[@vietdong2552]

***** Developer's notes.

[@TiagoMendonca8591]

The Soldier Who Learnt How To Kick Ass Interesting. But shouldn't that have been enough to shut up the people saying it's OP?

[@vietdong2552]

Originally, it was OP. It got nerfed. And about the players accusing it of being OP, people think the Spy is OP, so...

[@Kevin-um1nq]

Honestly? In every class, the secondary js better than the primary in atleast one way. That doesn't exist for the demo. Stickybomb is wayyyyy better. I think pill clip size should be increased.

[@Zuroslav]

Pipes explode on contact with everything like rockets do. Sticky launcher replaced with sco res. There, grenade launcher is now the more used of the two

[@moorbene5104]

When i was a demo noob i always took the pipes now i have the stormshield and i am still using the pipes