TF2: Stock Melee Syndrome

[@v-14415]

bottle and wrench trash?! sounds like a skill issue

[@alohaha-fv4di]

Wrench one have a point. I have 4 different engineer loadouts, none of them have stock wrench equipped, and I don't feel myself like I deprivate myself from weapon I really need. You want to use stock probably because you have strange botkiller/australium wrench and that makes you feel obligated to use them for showing off/stats farming purposes. Basically, Jag, Eureka effect and gunslinger are the only wrenches you ever need. Jag is a straight upgrade compared to stock, despite it have some red-texted stats. Better building speed, +15% attack speed compensates healing penalty and speeds up upgrading speed. It have damage penalty, but who cares while random crits still exist. Sometimes you may lose some buildings due to lack of sapper damage, but, like I said, who cares if you can quickly rebuild one? Stock wrench is like fireaxe for Pyro. No matter what unlockable wrench you switch to, it would be anyway better than stock. *No, southern hospitality, I'm not talking about you. Who needs a melee weapon with no random crit stat?*

[@Fart_tf2]

Bottle is one of the most op weapons but wrench is actually pretty ass

[@RealWheezerTF2]

I’m also pretty sure the bottle literally does more damage than the Eyelander but the Eyelander has more range

[@Engieman909]

@@RealWheezerTF2 eyelander has the same damage, more reach, and the potential for snowballing. If you want more raw damage and keeping crits then the scotsman skullcutter is a good option

[@Fart_tf2]

@@RealWheezerTF2 no it doesnt it just does random crits wich randomly does 3x the damage

[@FungiCaptain]

you fail to consider the fact that the bottle is the demomans only close range option if an enemy rushes him. his explosives will deal self damage so whipping out the bottle to take care of the enemy rushing you is the demos best option. all other melees (aside from reskins and the pain train, with the latter having a bullet vulnerability) have a deploy speed penalty which will matter greatly if youre being rushed down

[@Remyie]

That's true. The bottle is the only option if you're playing as a normal Demoman with a grenade launcher and sticky launcher. What I meant to say is that if you fail to kill someone with all of your pipes and stickies, you're most likely in a bad position, and the bottle won't be able to save you. Even then, like any stock melee weapon, the random crits make them actually worth using. I guess I shouldn't have said bottle goes to trash, because same logic can apply to snipers kukri

[@GreenFeatherGuy]

@@Remyie true, tho a scenario in which a close range enemy flanks you (scout, pyro, spy) tends to be very common in tf2. If you need damage NOW you can always rely on your trusty bottle to either kill the enemy or deal some damage before dying yourself

[@Engieman909]

@@GreenFeatherGuyI could also imagine that having the extra reach with a different weapon may be almost as valuable as fast deploy, especially if you’re fighting a scout

[@Anomalocringe]

​@@Remyie that's not true tho, a flanker rushing you down is not even under your control most of the time.

[@Bears-Are_Swell]

@@Remyie ur dum

[@NanaKyoto]

You underestimate just how good the stock Bottle is for Demoman, as it is the only melee weapon for him that has no downsides, you'd be surprised how often a Demoman is put in a situation where the enemy is too close and self damage with explosives is a bad idea.

[@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87]

The bottle is the last thing you want to use as a demoman - WRONG it is pulled out quickily and does no self damage and most people consider it the best meele for demo

[@davidcalado744]

Never cook again

[@woofes8958]

“Unlocks are better” mindset. Just play with whatever melee you want. I personally like the stock bat and bottle because of some funny moments I had with them.

[@timothytosser288]

The stock melee for demo isn't useless as exploding someone in point bank range is suicide so in that range use your melee and has no good alternatives unless you are demokight

[@charlesmartin1972]

Caber. We die like men

[@icebitezart]

I agree with everyone else when I think Demoman, Engineer and Spy’s stock options are fine. I’d like to argue that Sniper and Medic’s are fine too. While Jarate can be considered a lock in with the Bushwacka, if you’re not using it then the Kukri is a better and more reliable option than the Shahanshah and the Tribalman’s Shiv And if you’re a Medic, the Bonesaw isn’t TERRIBLE, it’s just that in comparison to gaining Uber with the Ubersaw, it sucks. With Medic though, the issue falls into his melees being around slower swing speeds and damage, something Medic shouldn’t care about. Effecting more detrimental stats like heal rate, ÜberCharge rate, overheal rate and decay, etc. would make the Bonesaw more desirable as a reliable option with no downsides but no upsides either In the case of Scout, Soldier, Pyro, and Heavy though. You’re 100% right. Having close range options that deal more damage than the melee could is reason enough not to use them. I think these melees would need an overhaul similar to how different the Wrench and Knife are, tailor made to fit the class. For example. Soldier’s Shovel could be merged with the Market Gardener, allowing crits while blast jumping but removing the 20% slower swing speed, only added there so it wouldn’t be a “straight upgrade”. The Market Gardener being a reskin changes nothing in the grand scheme of things and you can market garden with the Frying Pan now. Ain’t that fun? And in the case of Multi-Class melees, the Half-Zatoichi wouldn’t be useless on Soldier as he gains longer range health on kill, and can still crit while blast jumping but at the cost of a slower deploy, and high punishment if he misses (slower holster and Honorbound) Sidegrades would balance around the new Shovel, either disabling the mechanic outright, making it only mini-crit or even having a different effect upon hitting a target while blast jumping

[@icebitezart]

To not make the comment too long, as for Pyro, Scout, and Heavy. I have looser ideas that aren’t exactly concrete. The Fire Axe gains a new mechanic: Cauterize Hitting a burning target deals double damage (130) and extinguishes them This is a no frills, no nonsense Axtinguisher. As for the Axtinguisher itself, instead of it merging with the Fire Axe, it keeps its speed boost and is a sidegrade Keeping its lower base damage but Cauterize now mini-critting and dealing damage based on the remaining duration of Afterburn. As well as granting a speed boost on kill. Sidegrades of course balance around Cauterize: disabling it, or making it do something else. Scout’s Bat gains a new mechanic called Kneecapper. Targets below 33% HP are crit, and kills automatically reload all equipped weapons. While you can still just kill your target with your Scattergun, if you pay attention to health values you can choose to be flashy and get cool Bat kill on your enemy and get rewarded with a full reload! This would work great with slower reloading/low clip weapons like the Force-a-Nature. Sidegrades balance around this by disabling the mechanic, changing the threshold, or making it do something else entirely. As for Heavy, I don’t really have a lot of strong ideas. The best I got is increasing his melee range due to his slow speed, matching Demoknight’s sword at at 72 Hu instead of 48 Hu, as well as giving him the ability to crit on every third successful punch like the Gunslinger. These combo crits would be what sidegrades balance around, disabling the mechanic or making it do something else While it wouldn’t provide Heavy with much utility, having a good baseline for a potentially well balanced Buffalo Steak Sandvich sounds good enough.

[@kerenb14]

4:06 That poor fucking spy. I hate spies but god DAMN I felt that.

[@foxxdgd443]

LMAO

[@thegoon3840]

Use the pan. Direct upgrade.

[@predomz309]

demopan the strongest demo

[@bait3019]

apoco fists nah id win!!!!! heavy is pretty princess

[@DudeWithPineapple]

I'm more partial to the Conscientious Objector.

[@markverb1]

@@DudeWithPineapple are you a furry

[@DudeWithPineapple]

@@markverb1 Dude, why are you assuming the worse.

[@FillerName4]

As a Scout main, I feel like the stock bat's viability really depends on your aim as a Scout. Sure, the Scattergun and Pistol are leagues better in close quarters combat, but to newbie/intermediate Scouts that have trouble landing shots, having a reliable damage option with much less effort required can be a godsend, especially if you're looking to finish someone off when you're out of ammo. Additionally, in the times where you beef your shots in a close range encounter, you're already in the effective range of your melee weapon, making the choice all the more enticing. TLDR, the better at Scout you get, the worse the stock Bat becomes, and that is when utility items like the Atomizer, Wrap Assassin, and Basher shine brighter.

[@SillySalesManTheSecond]

Heres whats impressing about heavies fist though: Fist: Deals as much damage as a Kukri, a trench shovel, a fire axe, a bone saw and a wrench Now heres whats confusing for me The bottle does the same damage with a fire axe, a wrench, a kukri, and a bone saw

[@nathanfivecoate5848]

@@SillySalesManTheSecond Consider: Demoman's drunk strength, also sharp glass

[@junk28]

lets not forget demo is literally carrying a weapon that has total of 32 explosives loaded in a single fucking hand, the dude is probably extremely powerful plus after a crit it also becomes sharp

[@SillySalesManTheSecond]

Y'all got a fair point, Now no one else comments please, case is closed no more beef

[@SillySalesManTheSecond]

No beef, we got chicken ig

[@RemoveThisTrashLetMeSeeNames]

@@junk28 , lets not forget that mercs somehow carry atleast 3 weapons and 2 of them just don't exist until the mercs whip them out

[@jevilgames7531]

6:40 "shotgun" *ELECTRIC GUITAR ACTIVATED*

[@Trip_Toon]

I’d argue demo’s bottle is a viable stock melee. Not only is it demo’s most reliable melee in close situations where explosives will deal self damage but it also doesn’t force you to play as hybrid or full demoknight to be most effective.

[@Rylaine]

This. Bottle is quite literally the only Demo's defensive melee option while his other melee forced you to use them as a primary and linked to your comment, leads you to a hybridknight

[@Spiffyo]

This would be my thresholds for Stock Melees Good-Great: Knife, Bottle, and Kukri Alright: Wrench, Bat, and Bonesaw Bad: Shovel, Fists, and Fireaxe

[@sniperbodyshot]

switch bat and showel

[@Spiffyo]

@@sniperbodyshot Honestly, the bat has more use cases then the Shovel. You're the fastest class in the game whose melee options have a damage penalty usually or a severe downside, the bat isn't the worst since it can help in fringe situations in a fight. Shovel? Soldier is the second slowest class with a shotgun for close range fights making the Shovel redundant and better off taking something like the Market Gardener, Escape Plan, or even Disiplinary Action which have solid uses over stock.

[@swedishbread461]

Bottle is one of the best Stock Melee's considering most of Demo's melee's are either linked to Demoknight, or are just straight up terrible, and fighting close-range as a regular Demo is really hard, so i wouldn't say Bottle belongs in the trash

[@Quickstein]

@@swedishbread461 except it's an empty bottle so it is *quite literally* garbage.

[@UnlimitedRun]

Hey now, don't sleep on the Pain Train. Sure it's situational, being a straight downgrade on defense, but the double capture speed has won me games before. The bullet vulnerability is also pretty small, being only 10%, so it matters less than one may think. The only notable damage threshold that changes from livable from full HP to fatal is a full-charge Machina body-shot against a Grenade Launcher+Pain Train loadout. Also, a headshot goes from needing 9% charge to always kill without Weapon-Slot Boots to 4% charge with the Pain Train (each 1% of charge equals +1 damage applied to the base 50 damage before the *3 multiplier of crits).

[@randomperson1844]

funni pootis pow with the fists though

[@pufocina]

Can't argue with that!

[@emmadejesus9282]

well, the holiday punch and apoco-fists can taunt kill too, but the fists are always available while the holiday punch would either require you to craft it or get it from random drops and the apoco-fists are a promotional item, so fists good

[@randomperson1844]

@@emmadejesus9282 yea that is true, but stock is always available no matter what. fist gud :D

[@vibes951]

The stock wrench actually gets more kills and slightly more damage on average than the jag. This is a statistical fact look it up. As a good engineer you should be using the jag eureka effect and stock interchangeably throughout the match. Not trying to discourage you, the opinions in this video are questionable but your editing style is nice!

[@foreststalkerbrothers]

Engineer's wrench is used to kill more often than you said. If you are upgrading, see your "teammate" approaching, you swing at him most of the time to make sure. Alot of wrenches have no random crits, stock does have randoms. SO many spies died this way.

[@thegamefanatic7866]

"The wrench goes in the trash" Uncle Dane will remember that

[@GameFreak64101]

Bottle is a good solid weapon for Demo considering your non sword options are Caber and Pain Train. Former sucks and is explosive, latter has it's situational moments, but that taking extra bullet damage. Trying to use a Sword on non Hybrid Knight/DemoKnight loadouts is cumbersome Bottle is great

[@Oct_262]

The Stock knife is the best for all situations, as some knifes may give you effects on kill, such as the big earner and kunai, they have downsides, big earner lowers your hp to 100 so you can get one shot by many things, and the kunai intesifies that and lowers it to 70, the spy-cicle can be a good pyro detterend, but it increases the awareness of a nearby spy, due to the sound of a backstab, and the statues.

[@Mini_Sentry_Gaming]

2:27 Pyro: humph mmmph hmmph [translation: I am not in danger I AM THE DANGER]

[@gamerek9546]

When playing for the first time you want to swap them out asap but when you're experienced you realised that the more useless a weapon is the more it tends to crit

[@damianateiro]

The demoman's bottle is the only melee weapon (along with its skins and the pain train) that does not have a weapon change penalty, so it is very useful for the demo stock or if it only uses the stickie launcher as primary and has random crits. So it would be one of the best stock weapons in the game, taking into account what the demoman is like.

[@FoxsoFunso]

Just remember to pay attention to your own performance. I use the bone saw because I perform far better with it. 25% Uber would be worth it for my specific play style, however, I always die with the darn thing because I cannot hit them twice or 3 times before they body me as that slower swing speed throws me off my game that much.

[@Anomalocringe]

soldier suffer from the same problem as demo, but to a lesser extent, in that he can't really defend himself being rushed down without taking upwards to 80 self damage. having a shotgun equipped mitigates this downside, but if you using the other 7 secondaries, then you need that reliable self defense a good meele can give you. as for sniper, of you're using literally any of the backpacks, the kukri is jusy going to be the best option overall.

[@theeternalbruh1267]

Tell me with a straight face that it isnt anoying to have a scout double jumping all around you while hitting you with a baseball bat

[@Deadliermlg]

Equip an unusual and your stock weapons will be blessed with random crits for days.

[@SewerGoblino]

6:48 Ahem. As an Engi main myself you shouln't be using the Jag all the time since it build faster but is bad a repairs so you should use stock and the stock wrench is great at defending agains spies who just get a bit too close.

[@thomaskolar90]

Came here to post this! Jag for getting buildings up fast, stock for maintenance. Although technically, once your stuff is up, might as well use the EE - but for recovery once some of your stuff gets destroyed, if you're close to spawn, its upsides matter less, and if not, it's only better if your exit is intact, and worse otherwise.

[@steampunk1902]

¨Luck always beats skill¨ me after random crit a spy from behind with the machete

[@thebaconmanthony]

Stock is demo's best option when playing normal demoman.

[@FastFoodGuy_45]

Most stock melees basically serve as the baseline of last resort damage, and that's perfectly okey. They don't need to be great, and unlocks are suppose to aid in certain play styles or give a decent trade off for the player to use. And heck I'll say it here, the Bottle, Wrench, Knife, & Kukri are good picks for not even generalist playstyles, and while 99% of earth probably prefer getting 25% uber, the Bonesaw allows for generic survivability so I would also say the Bonesaw isn't a bad weapon either. Point is all stock WEAPONS in general are boring and baseline cause... that's what they are, and sometimes simple is nice.

[@BullerPerson]

Demoman, engineer and spy are the only classes with good stock melees

[@DelusionalDetective]

As a demo main, the bottle is his best melee weapon.

[@Zero_de_Nova]

Shotgun + Stockmeele is really good.

[@sirtchamp8033]

Foxboy's channel grew a bit woah!! Can't complain about what you said since everyone else said it, I guess I can say that jarate bushwacka isn't exactly viable since you can just stay away from the sniper, sniper rifle still viable at that range as well so...

[@akiriathorsteinson7611]

1:40 2nd slowest class in the game be like: *trolldier gameplay*

[@alohaha-fv4di]

What's the point of naming bottle trash and kukri good when they are doing the same things in same situations: insta-killing enemies in close range (because crit rate on melee weapons is just a 🐂💩 ) Pisswhacka combo takes 2 weapon slots (and have +20% incoming damage increase penalty), so when enemy pyro spams scorchshot, you have to choose between piss and shield. Btw this combo is not much better than stock kukri, like i said earlier, crit rate on melees is 🐂💩 and it may increase up to 60% crit chance depends on how many damage you dealt in last 20 seconds, so pisswhacka in casual is just a slot waster.

[@Remyie]

My point was that the Demoman doesn't really get to use the bottle, whereas the Sniper might find some use for his melee weapon. Jarate is still a really good secondary for the Sniper, and if you equip it instead of the SMG, the Bushwacka easily beats the Kukri. So, I don’t think it’s a waste of a slot. The only thing I would change in the video would be the bottle. I still believe a normal Demoman should focus on his pipes and stickies rather than trying to get lucky with a melee crit. But again, I was thinking that you don’t use it much even if you equip it. On the other hand, if you don’t plan to have a shield, the Demoman’s only option ends up being the bottle. So, it’s not a trash melee weapon.

[@DelusionalDetective]

@@Remyie as a demo main, I whip out the bottle all the time whether it be to get an enemy out of my face or for the funny. Demo is at risk when enemies are close to him which happens a lot so the bottle is used a ton.

[@kawaiiprophet9410]

The bottle is trash!?! I thought it was recycling

[@Typotypes]

I thought the frying pan was a direct upgrade from stock, but only for demo

[@steep3590]

I love your acent

[@Jasiuc330]

I gonna disagree with the Jag being simply better wrench. Thing is when you wanna chose your wrench and never switch it back again then Jag indeed seems to be better option. But you are Engineer after all and engineers have plenty of tools with them, you should choose your weaponary according to situation. When you build up nest far from your spawn and have working teleporters then Eureka Effect gonna be way better wrench to have, simply cause of ability to 2 shot sappers, better building healing and ability to maintain your teleports. Losing entrance may be really impactful for your team and ability to quickly rebuild it and teleport directly to your nest without using teleport is something you shouldn't slept on. Same with normal wrench or southern hospitality. When you have build up nest near your spawn, they gonna be great maintenance tool, cause of 2 shooting sappers, better healing and normal building speed While you mostly wanna use Jag when you want to quickly setup buildings, you move a lot so you don't have proper nest or your buildings goes down quickly and have need to quickly fill the defense gap. Or you are battle Engi with normal sentry gun

[@enclavehere.7995]

Speak for yourself, but everyone I get a kill with my aptly named “American Shovel” (Strange Stock Shovel), I get such a rush of adrenaline. They don’t call me “Sgt.Shovel” for nothin’!

[@jason591407]

Why would they make melees, stock at least, damage dealing based around a hit or miss mechanic? That's basically what it is for the most part. Also, one of the problems with stock melees that I'd say, is that, say they could be brought out, and that you attack immediately, but instead, you pull it out, they could already have gotten away before you could swing. Also, if that sounds stupid because of random crits, what about without them on those weapons?

[@randomaccountisthishere]

my idea the pomson is pretty good against medics and good against spies

[@УзеирМамедов-п6л]

Stock wrench is better at repairing buildings...

[@MightyT-je9df]

for me i use holy mackeral sometimes with scout and when im fighting run out of ammo i opt to just *run* at my enemy and fish them to death **this hardly fails?!**

[@Trickysoldier]

WAIT THE KNIFE CAN RANDOM CRIT

[@burnttoast5372]

@@Trickysoldier Yeah, it doesn't insta kill with the random crits luckily

[@Trickysoldier]

@@burnttoast5372 cuz that would be overpowerd

[@lucassollak1574]

I got a shield, so I'll try using that along with the bottle for Demo. Is that a good idea?

[@yurm5767]

Stock Bottle, Wrench and Knife are not trash burh.

[@MaxSkaggles-hb5fy]

Nope. Just nope. This is the bleed video V2

[@slood]

jarate with bushwacka is a better than stock? obviously, because it's a combo of 2 weapons. If u compare kukri to bushwacka alone then kukri wins because it's reliable.

[@bait3019]

You forgot third degree,which is just pyro fireaxe with stat wisely better. Also putting stock wrench on the trash bin is kinda mid hate theres southern that makes engineer weaker to pyros but good against spies unless they got dead ringer.

[@theeternalbruh1267]

Fireaxe bad?, sounds like a major skill issue on your side, what if your target runs underwater while you have the "meta" (aka degreaser, flaregun, and axestinguiser) then you cant really deal with them good, the flamethrower doesnt work underwater, but your mellee works underwater, the fireaxe deals 65 dmg, no matter what (exept for any dmg resist)

[@cardboard4929]

Frying Pan > Stock

[@konfutionkat9568]

What’s the texture pack you are using?

[@konfutionkat9568]

*packs

[@railkick2277]

stinky

[@rdyt0]

I prefer gpan as melee. All-class, and crits most of the time.😂

[@Schizoknight]

bad video

[@MRDAY-to8vy]

Ha bone saw trash guess what better Regen

[@Yummer_yt]

Is nice

[@kerenb14]

everywhere I go I see his face

[@28Zapper]

Pan good :)

[@Notsnakeph]

Hello

[@NinetyEight418]

A game called Typical Colors 2 (roblox tf2) have kinda fixed the issue with stock weapons. They basically have unique stats

[@Bebrishniyzxy]

Bro's voice sounds like 🤓.

[@kurtis09782]

🚄

[@Odium_DOB]

Engineer, spy,and sniper all have a reason to use stock melee, but every class almost always has a better choice. Engineer jagged for faster swings, but less repair perswing, while stock is average speed good for possibly keeping buildings alive better, but that's debateable, Spy spy-cicle cause fuck pyro or bad luck with random afterburn damage, kunie if you feel like stock isn't providing a valid enough reason cause you already die too quickly regardless of base health or not, big earner speed, Stock you'd use cause it consistent and teaches likely better habits Sniper.... FUCK YOU.... I just hate him, stock is just stock.... boring predictable but useful. plus if he's consistent melee crits will happen often, jarate bushwacka is just disgusting.. Demo has a reason but not much of a reason to use bottle... the bottle isn't bad

[@szelski.]

pubbers talking about weapons it hurts me if you dont know what you are talking about dont even make a video