[TF2] Why People Hate Heavy

Some guy starts saying that Heavy is Hated, what a concept hating on things that can't be hated. There's no way that the finale of the series would have actual legitimate points as to why Heavy is hated no sir.
Video took longer than expected but it's one of the best-edited ones I've done so far... don't even get me started on SFM as well
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Poopy Joe is also somewhere in the video hidden away from prying eyes and ears, find him and comment his location for internet bragging rights

[@northstar-8426]

Heavy can honestly be the most useless guy on your team or the scariest thing the enemy team has faced.

[@skeletonking2501]

That’s more of a sniper and spy thing tbh

[@5starvids_551]

I agree, as a pyro main hearing the zapping of an übercharge and the gutural shouts "I AM BULLETPROOF!!" and "FEAR ME!" give me fucking nightmares

[@northstar-8426]

@@skeletonking2501 dude a bad heavies are free food for kill counters

[@yogurtColombiano]

@@northstar-8426 I mean, a spy that does nothing but die often is too.

[@comrademuds1951]

i feel like this applies to all classes. just depends on what counters what youre currently playing. as a med/demo main, good scouts are the scariest thing.

[@skinnywhiteboy5590]

Heavy is the hardest class to hate. Most likely if you died to him its because you weren't respecting the area he can protect. Beating him means taking a natural risk to be in his line of sight and most likely up close to him. A very respectable man.

[@thewall915]

I agree with this but it’s the same way with other class’s mostly the defensive ones with the being in his line of sight los of sniper you risk your life los of engi you risk your life again los of pyro in close range you also risk your life but I agree that every heavy main is very respectable

[@skinnywhiteboy5590]

@@thewall915 well the main thing that came to mind for me was how a lot of classes kind of just have some random bs that let's them escape bad situations (jarate, sticky spamming, or vacc uber) but the closest thing heavy has is a sandwich with a long eating time. It's kinda just, nothing to exploit so the class is very honest.

[@spandanganguli6903]

He super powerful. Playing heavy on Pier on the attack, you can hold down the enemy team if you stay on the ramp. Then I ran out of ammo like a dumbass.

[@DommTom]

I think Soldier is harder to hate because Heavy can still push the paylod cart. And that's just *UGH!!!*

[@BBoy-Kun]

I agree 👍

[@sr.365]

Heavy is either the most feared force next to a soldier who knows what they're doing, or a walking meatbag who respawns every 13 seconds

[@Rammkommando]

unfortunately you could see both from teh same heavy in teh same match

[@Nul1fy]

@@Rammkommando the* This isnt 2013 anymore

[@emppudud5692]

@@Nul1fy we wish it was.

[@Rammkommando]

@@Nul1fy k

[@viviaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan]

@@Nul1fy what do you mean???? its still 2013!!

[@iizepic9788]

That's a good argument, unfortunately, my minigun is fully revved.

[@Tenshi04Akuma]

Heavy is like the inverted of what a Scout shall bring to the table. Be slow and durable, so you force enemies to retreat due to a wall of bullet coming closer to the frontline. Scout is run into the frontline to harass and pursue enemies sooner. Heavy cannot be replaced, because he is essentially the "Guy you need to take down as fast as possible or you'll all die when his friends covers him." Scout is "Be unnoticed or run up to the most vulnerable targets to get rid of any pest or any threats."

[@ToxicBastard]

Yes, heavy is the creeping advance of the team personified.

[@flyingstonemon3564]

Exactly

[@Yeti-wh7wt]

Exactly, heavy is your team's anchor. He is responsible for holding down a position long enough for the rest of his team to arrive. Heavy can also use his minigun to apply suppression to the enemy so his team can advance.

[@TheRealDismantler]

Heavy is simple, and that’s ok. Sometimes the simple things in life make us smile the most.

[@TheRealDismantler]

Also love the rain world music

[@cornybrain7282]

yeah, just point the gun and shoot

[@tracey9888]

Fat scout just brings me joy

[@Omega-jg4oq]

he is so slow but at least he has so much health and with ubercharge you can dominate everyone who is close to you

[@Thomas-vn6cr]

Not in this case though 🥲.

[@smeed5991]

As a heavy main with a 15k tommy and 500 hours on the class i have to adress some points you made: >Too low damage: fuck no, stock does >500dps at point blank, at mid range it can supress enemies so hard they can't really do much beyond spam back and hope you retreat >weapons too 1-dimensional: yes, while heavy's weapons are mostly +1s and -1s, those little changes make a world of difference. For example: tomislav favors a flank playstyle, locking down a corner and jumprevving around it, making any scout, medic combo or spy just invalid, as the 400 something dps of the tommy at point blank makes it a near instakill. The huolong heater favors a dropper playstyle, more valid on some maps than others, very fun anyhow. Natascha is more of a counter weapon against incredibly mobile classes, scouts, soldiers, demos and what not. This weapon also adresses your point of the 4 classes annihilating a heavy basically neutered, as 3 of the 4 are completely countered due to the natascha making corner peeking near impossible. And so on and so forth. (volvo plz add semi auto piercing cannon to heavy) >i dont get it: that is because you played heavy like in meet the medic. Heavy is supposed to be someone who locks down a corridor/corner/stairwell with the threat of 540dps coming straight for your rear end. To go out in the middle of the field like some retarded rambo is, as the name implies, mentally deficient. That is also why you complain about heavy getting countered by the 4 mobility classes, because if you stand in the middle of a field or a choke point like some big target practice, then you will be treated as such. A heavy is better when the enemy doesn't expect you, which can be said about everyone, but heavy is especially reliant on the element of surprise. That is also why many cite that heavy needs positioning more than anyone else, because he is punished for bad positioning more than any other class. ok rant over, good vid, tho you oversimplified the simple class lol

[@nicolasrage1104]

You brought up a lot of good points! Heavy probably does the most damage out of any class (at least at mid to close range).

[@daddylonglegs9711]

Well said

[@falco5148]

I don't wanna call him a sentry gun 2.0 but...

[@yokogaijinjr.5061]

Agreed I love to play with him, most times feel unstoppable, other times just a glorified pincushion, but I know I shouldn’t blame the class, so the heavy is a tool for me to improve always seeking self improvement

[@arthropod8951]

Oversimplified is putting it nicely, this video actively ignores alot of details about the class that factor into his uses and role on the team

[@TheAbyssalStorm]

One word: pressure. Heavy seems to be built to be a distraction that can deal stupid amounts of damage if the enemy is right in front of him or distracted by the sniper on the other side of the map. Even at mid range, he can do some serious damage, if the enemy happens to be holding w, a, and/or d. Let’s not forget the cosmic power that is known as ambushing, getting the drop on your opponents, sometimes literally, is one of my favorite things to do, especially as heavy and can leave a pile of corpses on the floor as you run back up to the rafters, resetting the trap.

[@pedrodionisiobarbosaalves9997]

sorry for coping a part or your coment but I had to do it.``pressure. Heavy seems to be built to be a distraction that can deal stupid amounts of damage if the enemy is right in front of him or distracted by the sniper on the other side of the map´´ you literalely said the spy's role in the game but ass heavy, congratulations!!! btw nice opinion, I didn't mean to be toxic or anything just writing my opinion just like you.

[@TheAbyssalStorm]

@@pedrodionisiobarbosaalves9997 No worries.

[@thewall915]

Getting the drop on enemies is hella fun it’s a part of the reason I picked up heavy hitting weapons that you can use higher drops to make up for spin up time like the beautiful brass beast and the hue long heater

[@ToxicBastard]

@@pedrodionisiobarbosaalves9997 Heavy distracts from the front while spy does so from behind. Divide and conquer.

[@atozisnotme]

i want to make a video in response to this vid with this as one of the points i dont think this vid had enough credibility with the true heavy experience

[@Nul1fy]

Man this video just felt like why YOU dont like heavy, not why PEOPLE hate heavy.

[@robdickson-iz3xh]

this is a man who simps for Tracer and widowmaker and makes videos on how bad TF2 is so i dont blame him if he isnt doing very well in life

[@idkwhyieventryanymore]

IKR? I’m an all-class main and it seems like this guy is just bad at Heavy.

[@crudbeans8905]

⁠@@idkwhyieventryanymoreas a heavy main take a sandvich comrade cus your valid

[@idkwhyieventryanymore]

@@crudbeans8905 here, take this ÜberCharge

[@colonelcrab4772]

Heavy is just too slow? The G.R.U. You need a medic to be affective in any situation? Second Banana, don't need a medic.

[@Gigabyte019]

You don’t hate playing against heavy, you hate playing heavy. This is the ideal class for masochists with anger issues.

[@rockowlgamer631]

no wonder I like playing him.........just kidding I just like having a bigger health pool because of random crits

[@ekiouja]

I feel attacked by that description

[@Dingus_Khaan]

I feel very called out by that.

[@kaimacdonald3006]

I just like him because I can eat sandviches

[@saas9997]

That's not untrue

[@cralo2569]

heavy always shines as a support killer, accompanied by a soldier or demoman, you fill the gap of the burst attacks from both and heavy dishes out the inbetween, constant damage against anything close-medium range. and unlike medic, he has enough survivability to survive most encounters

[@civilsecuritylite12054]

And where as Pyro is a Soldier or Demo's worst nightmare. A Heavy can absolutely wreck the living shit out of a Pyro if the place they fight provides very little cover or is wide open. (Since you cant deflect bullets duh) Clearing them for the Sollys or Demos to catch more mobile enemies than his slow speed can ever hope to match up.

[@medicgaming9117]

Medic can have survivability

[@thewall915]

Heavy is a level 4 sentry gun with soldier and demo

[@BillyOnYouTube]

People don't hate Heavy. You hate Heavy

[@nuclearstuff9442]

Yeah!

[@simonnachreiner8380]

"Why people hate certain maps and minorities" *Shows demo on the screen Something you wanna share with the class?

[@waluigitheprophet4406]

Hello SpaceGuy, I’m a Heavy main with 1,000+ hours in the class and some competitive Highlander experience. Those of us that truly enjoy the little depth that Heavy has to offer are in a small minority and it’s okay that we are. The best way that I can explain the enjoyment of Heavy is the ridiculously high highs achievable with the class. The Minigun pumps out insane DPS at close range and does not have to reload, coupled with 450 hp from a medic, you can become insane if you know where to position, how to track, and have a general grasp of where the enemies are and what they want to do. The class practically only has positioning, tracking, and game sense available to it so you need to be extra amazing in those three areas else you will fall flat to any competent player on a much more competent class. Where the Heavy establishes himself determines how survivable he is, but even in the most optimal position given the map and enemies, you can still fall victim to the glaring weakness of no mobility. The only times you will get away with walking into the enemy team and blasting your minigun is if their team is severely incompetent. Thus, you must play a defensive playstyle, only utilizing offensive pushes as a mix-up if you will. I think the biggest difference in fun you can have in Heavy is between having and not having a pocket medic. Having the largest health pool, overhead is incredibly nuts on Heavy and getting healed while taking damage is also bonkers. You can move freely because damage you take (which you would have avoided if you have sufficient mobility) will be restored. As a solo heavy without a pocket medic, you essentially become the enemy team’s bitch (at least against competent players). All it takes is two players from two different directions and you 90% chance will lose unless you have godly aim. Now this can be said about any class but it especially applies to Heavy because he either has to unrev his minigun thus rendering him useless due to not being able to fire and being slow or fight til the death, which is usually the option you want to take 99% of the time. Finally I’d like to take a moment to say that it is okay that Heavy does not have a high skill ceiling. It is without question that there will be the best and worst of anything and everything, TF2 being no exception. However, Heavy was not designed to be nearly as competent as other classes and that is fine. He fulfills a niche role on the team which I personally love to play and master. The great thing about videogames is that you aren’t forced to play them and an even greater thing is that they give you choices. For the individuals who gripe and moan and groan about how Heavy has a low skill ceiling or people who play him are bad (not saying this is specifically anyone just people in general), please pick another class and get better at the game. If you feel some sense of superiority from demeaning those that play a way you deem inferior, I’d encourage you to grow up and, quite frankly, touch grass. If anything, the grand purpose of determining which classes are the best and the worst and which have the highest and lowest skill ceilings and floors is to find ways to improve the larger experience. We can collectively come together to find the best ways to change Heavy that benefits the balance and fun of him and present our ideas to Valve in hopes to improve this old as crap game we all love. Enough ranting, if you read this far, thanks!

[@JoNarDLoLz]

As a Heavy main, what's your opinion on giving Heavy a mechanic that allows him to be invulnerable or atleast some dmg reduction on demand?

[@waluigitheprophet4406]

Based off of merely the concept alone, I would be opposed to a concept that gives damage reduction or invulnerability on demand for Heavy. All of the classes are delicately balanced around the damage they can deal and the effective HP they can have at any given time. Tweaking with either of these variables can easily add too much power if given into the right hands. So, in general, mechanics that do either of these I am highly skeptical towards. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario in which such mechanics can result in being overpowered and/or unfair to fight against. Assume that a Heavy and a Scout are engaged in a 1v1. On average it takes the Scout 3 to 4 shots to kill a Heavy whereas it takes a couple of seconds to kill the Scout depending on if he is utilizing props or not. The Scout has landed 3 shots on you and needs one more to finish you off. You, being the Heavy, decide to use your on demand mechanic to survive the last shot needed and kill the Scout as you are revved. Suppose however that this mechanic is only available when you aren't revved and lets say that this mechanic is only accessible through a secondary weapon. Instead of trying to fight the Scout, you as a Heavy become unrevved and use your damage reduction to try and aid in your escape. The only issue is that you are the slowest class in the game and you have 0 burst movement options to your availability. You are, essentially, a useless entity waiting to die and can only fulfill the functions of filling a Medic's ubercharge or letting your enemies put resources into you instead of a useful teammate.

[@isohyde]

Also, headglitching is a skill. Or kind of a skill. Moreso learning the spots I suppose

[@waluigitheprophet4406]

@@isohyde I'm assuming you are referring to the property of TF2 hitscan that it actually comes out of your eyeballs rather than your weapon model? Considering that positioning is the epitome of this class, it certainly is a skill in that taking advantage of it whenever possible can and will help you edge out fights.

[@ozvoid1245]

EXACTLY! He fills a very niche role that other classes do not. I main Heavy and medic, his entire point is to fill that small gap of potential disrespect. He is meant to put pressure on a team, while also rallying his own team. And ofc he's pretty much fully dependent on medics, and that's okay. Hell, when I play medic, heavy will always be there with you when you need him; but demo and soldier? They'll abandon you in a pinch because of their mobility, they don't need medic, but heavy does.

[@enderborn017]

Heavy's low mobility means he requires good positioning. If you are caught in a bad situation, you have to stick it out and hope you can kill your opponents (which your high health and dps means you are well suited for). With other classes like scout, you often have the option to run away.

[@epicsandvich014]

Because of the lack of mechanics and mobility, heavy has to think outside of the box with his own strategies. That’s what makes him fun to play, it’s like a chess match, because the things every class needs to do, heavy needs to do better, which is possible if done right.

[@therealbrappuccino]

Yup. Anyone can master tracking but they're useless without proper positioning.

[@ToxicBastard]

Exactly, you get to move very little, so make your moves count.

[@Treblaine]

Yeah, this video OP constantly over-extends or revs too early. He doesn't get the tactic of "slicing the pie" to only expose himself to the "slice" around the corner that he's aiming, he keeps placing himself in front of a firing squad and having to shoot them all down before they shoot him.

[@mr.silver1614]

As someone who enjoys playing heavy, the reason why I like to play heavy is that I like to feel like an unstoppable force, doom OST playing, MOWING MY WAY THROUGH THE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM, SEEING TINY BABY MEN FALL BEFORE MY GIANT GUN!! Snipers do not phase me, Spies are easy pickings, I EAT SCOUTS FOR BREAKFAST, I AM THE FRONT LINE, AND I WILL WIN!! FOR THE MOTHERLAND!! and that is why I like playing heavy. :D

[@thewall915]

Wall agrees

[@TheAbyssalStorm]

BFG Division starts playing (suits him since he has a big fucking gun).

[@Skarrier]

Yeah, that feeling of destroying the entire Engie nests IN SOLO and leaving the tele for the small amount of time to mock some enemies going through it

[@primarchvulkan4013]

"Heavy players live for the moment when they say "Fuck it", and jump around the corner to enemy team" - LazyPurple, "How it feels to play Heavy"

[@Zinc_Nitrogen]

Bro ur literally subbed to everything I'm subbed

[@HindruD]

I've turned matches around by picking heavy for a team. Even somehow consistantly top scoring. I found out that heavy is not always meant to quickly kill enemy players in droves. But rather to hold choke points long enough for your team to rally and push. Becuse for the simple idea that people dont like getting hit, the enemy will stay in cover as long as bullets are flying at them. Especialy if they end up being slowed down in some scinarios. It can even make inexperinced players panic. A similar role as sniper, but more appropriatly applicable in close quarters areas where snipers cant be as effective. TLDR: Supresive Fire. Dont stand out in the open.

[@NomadSage07]

exactly. too many people see Heavy as Offense, when he really isn't. He's amazing as defense.

[@ozvoid1245]

Pretty much, he's suppressive; he's not supposed to actually hit the enemy; heavy getting kills is simply a consequence of players not respecting his presence. HE IS NOT AN OFFENSIVE CLASS.

[@YouTenaza]

He's still to easy to 1hit. To the point of being easiest one to kill in a lot of situations. Specially vs Sniper, who doens't care about it's health becaus it's a one shot anyway, but it's the easiest to hit because he's the slowest. The times i try heavy, play a while, get headshot twice by a decent sniper, and go back to any other class to avoid getting harassed.

[@nooshstuff]

@@YouTenaza this conversation's about heavy being defensive tho, and you're never in a defensive position if you're in a sniper sightline heavy is perfect for the role of preventing your team from losing their ground

[@TeeV479]

I'm a pretty new player who after about 100 hours (I got a pc upgrade recently so I can actually aim now) is starting to like heavy but damn listening to the reccomendations helps so much HEAVY IS FOR NOT HEAD ON ASSAULT

[@vincentsissom4180]

There is a clear reason why Heavy is hated, and that is solo Heavy is one of the easiest classes to beat but supported Heavy becomes an even bigger wall to take down then a Wrangled Sentry. With a Medic or Engineer backing you up, Heavy becomes one of the biggest problems the enemy has to face.

[@Lerre]

solo heavy is way better than most people think. You just have to pick your fights.

[@kuunt6065]

at close range heavy is probably the scariest solo besides a demo or direct hit soldier, if he has good tracking, the likelyhood is your healthbar is depleted before his

[@silverdededestruction2197]

@@Lerre @Lerre a solo Heavy who picks his fights wisely is even stronger if they have a clear strategy and loadout. Ambushing the enemy? Tomislav silent rev gives you the advantage. Need to stall on the point until your team comes in? Brass Beast makes you even more threatining with the damage boost, and the damage resistance at 50% makes you even harder to kill. Want to take the enemy for surprise from above and have an extra layer of protection against spies? Huo Long Heater does good work with that, and spies will have to time it right to get the stab against you without risking themselves. Want to slow down the advance of the enemies capable of getting to the frontlines quick? Natasha is as annoying as it is helpful. Your loadout and your strategy is what can make or break your push or defense. Playing heavy is simple. Playing him effectively is actually really hard and requires a lot of thought. Since he has the least amount of options for vantage points in exchange for the best offensive defensive power possible while still being mobile.

[@Lerre]

@@silverdededestruction2197 about huo long heater, it doesn't really help with spies, unless they are new. And that applies to every class pretty much, regular heavy with stock/tomislav is the best option 95% of the time. Solo heavy can't really stall well since he is a sitting duck, especially with the brass beast.

[@turkishjanitor3666]

@@Lerre precisely. Feeling way too powerful and as such dying too often is the most common mistake Heavy players make

[@yuugienjoyer]

I'm surprised to hear people hate us heavy mains.

[@5qu3l]

us 9 heavy mains

[@korhol2065]

That’s what happen to me when I went Natasha on a trolldier, he got so fucking pissed

[@nuclearmonster8084]

Ikr

[@panquueski9537]

@@5qu3l 10* (me)

[@Skorly]

A better title would probably be "Why I hate Heavy". Heavy doesn't require much mechanical skill, but his slow speed makes positioning so much more important. You mention that positioning is important for every class, which is true, but what makes heavy different is that he has 0 escape. You can't quickly reposition like most power classes or even really run away. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time will just flat out get you killed. Not gonna say he's the hardest class or anything, but there is a very clear difference between average and really good Heavys. Not saying you should like Heavy or anything, but I don't really like the way you say that heavy being boring and uninteresting is a fact. I think he is fun and good class for people who aren't good at twitchy shooting, but still wan't to fight at the front line. I find that trying to play him on a server with a lot of competent players is also fun, because you have to be really smart with how you play. Again, nothing wrong with thinking that Heavy is boring, but basically shooting down any other thoughts on the subject by labeling them as "funny jokes you can tell yourself" just rubs me the wrong way. Doesn't really promote interesting discussions.

[@Dr_Dan_]

this, the dude hate the class cause he doesn't have splash damage that he can dish out in safe areas or camp in Alaska and get kills (which is fine, different people have different preferences). its understandable if he doesn't like the class, thats totally ok. but you can just feel his mood while typing the script that he has no """easy work arounds""" like the other classes that helps them out and thats why he gets ""angry"". youre not suppose to attack, you suppose to be a barrier that helps youre team push

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

If you can find joy in playing Heavy good for you and all that, I obviously can't and I think a majority of the community feels the same way hence the presentation of that statement being a fact. I think that people trying to promote Heavy by saying hes an extremely nuanced and detailed class with a plethora of unique playstyles is a joke though, can't see much there and what is there isn't enough

[@randomguy3849]

Also to add to this, snipers will go for your head first, so what should you do? Learn how to become the most unpredictable player possible. I've been able to distract a ton of snipers who're focused on my head rather than the easier heads of team. Same thing with being a decoy as a med while your pocket does work

[@Dr_Dan_]

@@SpaceGuyOnline there is an equal amount of people that dislike heavy and people that likes him, its a statement with a bias

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

@@Dr_Dan_ ah yes that's why you only ever see one every 5 matches because he's everyone's favourite class to play and that's also why Valve literally had people vote for which class needed a update to refresh them

[@MrAlias-oc8uk]

So much of Heavy's Skill Ceiling (yes, it exists, and is relevant) is simply compensating for his weaknesses. It's a unique but not entirely _fun_ way of increasing skill. You would say every class has depth in positioning; I would say that the vastly increased import of strategic thinking with Heavy makes positioning and game sense that much more important to be strong as him and require skill to keep getting better, but in the end it's all just a way to mitigate Heavy's weaknesses. The ultimate issue with Heavy is that he lacks the mechanical depth to appeal to a large portion of the playerbase. They came here to play TF2, not HoI4, and he requires inordinate amounts of planning which may fall apart at any moment. I main Medic, and I've seen and healed dumb Heavies by the armful. Let me tell you right now, there is a World of difference between a bad Heavy, and a good Heavy. A good Heavy's tracking will unmake the enemy team in seconds. A bad Heavy's tracking won't do shit. A good Heavy will be as stealthy as a Spy and devastating as a Demoman. A bad Heavy knows none of those things. One feels _so_ much better to use as your meatshield, because he knows what he's doing and the enemy team will suffer for it. Greatly.

[@Skarrier]

«as stealthy as Spy and devastating like Demoman» line is incredibly true, this is exactly how i can describe my Heavy playstyle.

[@isaacargesmith8217]

Yeah this guy kinda missed the entire point of heavy's movement skill ceiling. Its not mechanically high but its decently high in the sense that you have to do WAY more just to even compete with even a pyro, let alone a soldier or demo, even MORE let alone to compete with a scout when it comes to map placement and such. Every other class literally runs circles around heavy. The skill of heavys movement is working with what are basically limited tools and understanding what you can do with them, not being mechanically skilled so that you have a major list of options to use at any point. Its part of why stuff like the metal gloves are such a good weapon as an example as it allows him to be more mobile in that sense for the cost of being slower due to not using a speed unlock, being terrible for actual fights due to the melee damage, and recieving less over heal. That ability to tank allows heavy just a bit more repositioning ability which is VITAL when hes so limited. Its also why stuff like the GRU is so absurdly good because it basically nullifies that to an extent when getting to the battle at the cost of being barely able to tank anything when there. Its a tortoise vs hare situation. That turtle might not mechanical be a good runner but by golly if he can beat that rabbit hes probably pretty skilled. The same thing in a way applies to engineer, you can tell a good and bad engie apart by where and how they set their bases up in the same way a good heavy knows how to use the map to his advantage. There isnt a lot of mechanics going on but the one that knows what they're doing will do way better.

[@vt5233]

hit the nail right on the head. he has a high ceiling - if you are point blank pumping bullets into a hitbox 24/7 he's putting out a lot of numbers. the issue people have is how to climb to that theoretical maximum. while other classes do this with flashy things like double jumping, across-the-map headshots, rocket jumps, stealthy backstabs, etc. Heavy climbs to his theoretical limit almost entirely by improving your tracking and using deliberate, smart positioning to maximize your uptime and minimize deaths. walking to a really good position that a bad Heavy wouldn't have, not dying to the spy that would have killed a bad Heavy, and having really good tracking once you get there, is not much of an MLG moment from a spectacle point of view even if it might be just as powerful as a Scout or something in that moment.

[@personexists4520]

So your telling me I’m a heavy main because of my 750 driving back nazi Germany in hoi4

[@aganaom1712]

heavy is the lesson on tf2 fundamentals if you've got your basics down pat, he's comfortably strong and straightforward to deal with at the same time if your game knowledge is lacking in any way though, he's gonna let you know and he's not gonna be nice about it edit: 9:09 yeah that tracks for a sniper main. so afraid of mechanics, strategies and placements getting countered you actively hide information from other people while at the same time telling them you know something that they don't

[@bumpkin8009]

He just hides the spot cause he doesn't want it to be ruined it has nothing to do with being affraid of mechanics lol

[@xluispx4477]

@@bumpkin8009 isn't that the point? If people know where you are before they die, then it would make them try to defeat the sniper by flanking or by "avoiding" that area (good luck with that)

[@ancientcorndog2713]

Heavy will always be the beloved poster boy for tf2

[@Fte1006]

The thing about tf2 classes from my own experience is that in their own ways, every class is made to be absolutely broken op, but at the same time, other classes are made op in a different way to counter that, for instance, normally the on demand invincibility from some of Medics medigun's Ubercharge would be the most broken thing, but it is balanced by having to charge, having other classes be so strong, having weapons that directly hinder the effectiveness of the charge by causing the Medic to lose charge. How about the instant kills and complete invisibility the Spy provides, normally that would be so stupid to fight but thanks to classes like the Pyro and Heavy being able to cover large areas in damage, the spy must avoid them and be extremely careful where and how to position themselves, and this goes for all 9 classes, which encourages good teamwork in order to ensure victory, but if just one job isn't filled in, your entire team suffers the consequences

[@shookengie370]

"encourages good team work" no wonder I get stomp on ever casual match

[@Fte1006]

@@shookengie370 yeah, a lot of people tend to forget that you have to cooperate in a team based game lol

[@demomoon1552]

Nothing is broken if everything is broken

[@arlissmith876]

@@Fte1006 to be fair as dougdoug put in it his overwatch vs tf2 but explained with food, unlike in overwatch you don't necessarily have to work with your team, medic and engi are obvious exceptions to this but unlike the cake overwatch is baking, tf2 is like candy bars, they taste great on their own and you don't have to commit to maximum team combat and get stomped because of one bad player, I think I worded this wrong as it's been a while sense I watched the video I mentioned but it fits, you can work as a team in tf2 but you don't have to in order to have fun or win, well usually

[@Fte1006]

@@arlissmith876 I think I get what you mean and it makes sense, I'm just putting things from my own experience, you do make a good point though

[@JustQerq]

"Cut through the enemy team like through suicidal teenager's wrist". I usually don't mind edgy humor but that is just poor taste

[@tango6369]

that’s what i was thinking was enjoying the video a ton until he said that didn’t completely ruin the video but kind of made it a sour conclusion

[@evelynfresneda18]

ah yes, the single class with the most high dps on the damn game has bad damage.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

The high dps only matters if anything can actually live long enough to actually witness it, in MvM sure but in casual Heavy's minigun rev time and kill speed doesn't surpass Soldier, Demo or Scout. So sure he can deal 540 dps after 6 seconds point-blank but nothing in the game will be there long enough for that to truly matter, and as a result he has low damage

[@Demian1]

@@SpaceGuyOnline bruh moment

[@nonzoc]

@@SpaceGuyOnline bruh moment

[@LordRemiem]

​@@SpaceGuyOnlinebruh moment

[@helton1812]

when my cousin played for the first time, he said he hated heavy. not because heavy is op, but because he liked to play demoknight

[@combinemetrocop4213]

Hehe Oh those silly swordsmen

[@BIasphemous]

Im not gonna lie. The graph at 5:43 is one of the worst abominations i have ever had the sad chance to lay my eyes on

[@strain3652]

downplaying medic and demo so badly

[@NomadSage07]

the downplay of medic and pyro. smh.

[@owenhay7154]

soldier main core smh rocket jumping alone doesnt make the ceiling that high or useful

[@elfascisto6549]

Lol look at sniper

[@colonelcrab4772]

Especially engineer, engineer is like my least good class, and can be torture to play at times (i am not good at engineer), but i absolutely want to get better, that class is so hard to play and manage lol

[@gojirathebirb]

It's not possible. How can you hate this lovely guy who's obsessed with his gun. Heavy is love, Heavy is life. But in all seriousness, you have really valid points, I never realized how he has a rather 1 dimensional play style. Well I'm a Heavy main and that's because I like his simple playstyle, the low skill-ceilling also compliments my play style.

[@sniper7303]

i found my second heavy main :D

[@TheZombieTurkey]

@@sniper7303 looks like there's 3 of us now

[@THE_TAXMAN_1969]

@@TheZombieTurkey 4 actually

[@victourino9412]

@@THE_TAXMAN_1969 no, there's another one

[@ballOfGoof]

@@victourino9412 May a medic main step in and provide some of ze healing for the russian gentelmanns?

[@aganaom1712]

to elaborate on why you specifically don't like to play as heavy it's because he's not flashy you're not supposed to do cool shit with the class if you're playing heavy, it means you're here to do a job and that job is supporting your team so that they can carry you you need to know as much about the enemy as possible so that you can protect your team long enough for them to get done what they need to it's not about the fame, the glory, the recognition, the skill requirement, the killstreaks or the medic girlfriends it's about your willingness to do the work that others won't. it's hard work, but someone's gotta do it. that's why we live for those rare moments where we tear through an entire team with our own team at our backs we helped them to create this moment that they, in turn, created for us our efforts won their trust. we support them that they might support us

[@ToxicBastard]

Heavy, engineer and medic are like the working class of tf2; not flashy or famed, but the backbone of the world.

[@davidnewhart2533]

This description of yours even fits his character.

[@giahuynguyenkim6389]

This also describes the life of an Engineer and a Medic

[@personexists4520]

The janitors of tf2

[@thewall915]

As a pootis man i can agree with the low skill ceiling and entertainment at times but honestly for me mowing people down with a giant minigun and having people fear you when you tell them that you are going to eat their liver is quite fun. I believe heavy can be pretty powerful as long as you know your biggest threats and learn to deal with them scouts can be taken out as long as you have sentry like aim or pretty okay aim sometimes you can take advantage of a soldier or demo man to make a escape using rocket surfing and with the amount of demos who try to launch you up by shooting at your feet you can try to use that too spy is spy just like flick him away and listen for his cloak noise or just check your back occasionally with heavy’s massive health pool you can look behind yourself quickly then resume shooting. still despite all of these different tactics,I can still agree that heavy is pretty weak but in the right hands you can go on a rampage… or yk just like get a German doctor to surgically remove your prostate and replace it with a medi gun.

[@drillbitz2816]

Big text

[@thewall915]

@@drillbitz2816 passionate heavy main sorry 😂

[@drillbitz2816]

@@thewall915 it’s fine but also name checks out

[@lgp5619]

I think valve kinda forgot that when they called heavy the "heavy weapons guy" it doesnt mean just miniguns. he could be using any kind of heavy weapon like a shoulder mounted anti-tank gun, or a machine grenade launcher, or an LMG, or an artillery gun. Heavy shouldn't just be restricted to boolet, he should get multiple options when it comes to the source of his damage, honestly, he could be the class that has a heavy version of each class, heavy shotgun, heavy rocket launcher, heavy flame launcher (oh wait that thing pyro got and heavy didnt?) heavy grenade launcher, dual smaller miniguns, siege crossbow/dart shooter, anti-tank gun(essentially a big sniper rifle), a stupidly big revolver.

[@alaeriia01]

This is why we need the Heavy Update.

[@TheRealDismantler]

I was thinking they should do something similar to what they did with Gunner in Deep Rock Galactic

[@turtlelord8021]

@@cewla3348 Sniper: It's time to log on to casual and kill some bad heavies. Sniper Heavy: Have you heard of orbital laser cannon.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Your comment should've been pinned. You provided such a free take about how we look at Heavy wrong way, he's heavy weapons guy so his unlocks should've been different unique heavy ornaments

[@Rammkommando]

what makes heavy fun isn the mechanics, its not the skill, its all those skilled players who can't take a hint getting point blank to a minigun is a bad idea getting mowed down. also from my experience, as good as soldier and demo are, on payload the closer ot the final point is the more heavies you see, not soldiers, not scouts, you might find a demo there but hey you cant cover every chokepoint as demo. Heavy is a pusher the one who keeps the pressure on letting his specialist comrades do their jobs. defense, they have to come to you, Respect him or die, medics heal the heavy, engineers supply the heavy, pyros, well they are nice friends who deserve sandviches for extinguishing heavy

[@acolossalangrybook3169]

pyros can also spycheck, so that the heavy won't be backstabbed

[@GiRR007]

Heavy needs one of his minigun pellets to always be perfectly accurate when he shoots like the shotgun does as it basically shoots 4 shotgun pellets per shot. Giving him more options and skill expression.

[@Dr_Dan_]

its already a thing

[@dabmasterars]

it is already in the game, the first shot is always accurate, however I would like to change it so perfectly accurate shots are fired every second

[@GiRR007]

@@dabmasterars This is what I was referring to, not the first shot ALL THE SHOTS having 1 perfectly accurate pellet.

[@GiRR007]

@@Dr_Dan_ No its not, not what im talking about, Im not talking about the first shots I mean ALL the shots.

[@thewall915]

@@dabmasterars that would be pretty powerful though it would also make heavy a bit annoying and nerf the tomislov a little maybe decrease the amount of spread for every gun just a little bit for heavy

[@DaRealBruner]

1:39 Let's talk about this real quick. In the universe of Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress 2 is a video game. Does this Heavy branded cup mean that in the universe of Left 4 Dead, TF2 was so massively successful it spawned it's own fast food chain?

[@gojirathebirb]

Maybe

[@Future_Max]

I'm sure it's just a one-off easter egg

[@Vepzzzzz]

The secret hidden sniping spot at 9:08 is a spot not many snipers know about. Load onto 2fort, and follow the battlements sign. You'll see an opening where you can see the entire enemy battlements and the bridge! You even have a middle building for cover. Kinda OP, valve should nerf it...

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Bro it was censored for a reason

[@TheXtrategaxd]

@@SpaceGuyOnline lol

[@sorcererofsalt5786]

Hey space guy, I think you are missing something. It's the pressure that heavy gives off. Just like sniper gives lots of pressure and you have to respect everything in his sight line from long range, you have to respect everything in heavy short and sometimes medium range. I'm surprised you don't get it as a sniper main, considering that you can single handedly change the enemy's composition to deal with your class. The same is true for heavy.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Save for the fact that Sniper fundamentally does the job 90x better. Keeping pressure up by dealing chip damage versus a flat out headshot isn't as satisfying or fun to play as especially when you realize that Sniper's sightline and range is not just bigger than Heavy's but isn't contested by anyone as well. Long range Sniper only needs to fundamentally worry about long range Snipers while Heavy has to deal with every other mid range power class also exerting even more pressure

[@sorcererofsalt5786]

@@SpaceGuyOnline I think your somewhat wrong about sniper doing pressure better, because fundamentally he isn't involved in the battle nearly as much as heavy is. Heavy not only puts on close and semi-midrange pressure buts he's also a roadblock that the enemy team has to deal with to advance unless they want to get mowed down. He stops the enemy teams advance. Sniper might be able to single-handedly stop one to three person pushes if he hits his shots but heavy blocks the entire enemy team. I think fundamentally sniper and heavy play very different roles even if their both supports.

[@darthsidious3278]

@@SpaceGuyOnline wow you’re rude

[@darthsidious3278]

@@SpaceGuyOnline no one likes playing against sniper

[@arthropod8951]

"Heavy has no depth" >Proceed to oversimplify and strawman each primary Great video

[@sirchris6047]

Most intelligent TF2 you tuber

[@orangepeel4542]

The whole point of this series is simplifying.

[@yuwomy]

It seems the heavy haters expect him to make use of his health and dps to get close to the enemy team and mow them down when you're not supposed to play him like that. He's more like a ninjaneer in a way, camping behind cover to kill any small man foolish enough to try and take the point. I've dominated new heavies as spy and watched in aw as good heavies are forced to get so good at gamesense they duck sniper shots and spy check under gunfire. I'm legit disappointed that you didn't somehow get Big Joey to show up though lol.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Asked him directly and he blocked me

[@boristakerman]

Ill bbe honest from the start, I dont like this take, sure its all logical points, but Im not the most articulate or smartest out there, and I dont know how to in a full-proof way rebute your points without there being an easy "Caught-cha" that can be pulled on any of my points, so Ill just list why I like playing him instead; - Its fun to be a slow moving force that cant be taken down: Yes, you actually can take heavy down. But a good heavy isn't out in the open 30 feet deep into enemy lines. Hes at a medium distance covering half his body either by a partitioning wall or a crate, using the shooting from your head trick. - I dont enjoy playing Soldier & Scou, and Demo just doesn't click the samet: This is mostly for the point, "If you just like doing a lot of damage, play soldier demo or scout". Soldier feels clunky even if other people dont feel that way, I do. Demo is fun to hit pipes with and sticky traps are fun to, but he just doesnt click as well as heavy for me. Scout is to fast, and I just cant hit my shots as scout. - Hes just a lovable fat guy: Part of the enjoyment is just the characters, being a fat guy shooting a mini-gun is fun, especially when out of nowhere a scout comes behind you, shoots you in the back, and you turn and mow him down while he trys to jump around your screen like the ball from Pong, and then giving a thumbs up "Thank you" after killing him. Im sure theres more that I cant really think of, and that the majority of my point could probably be boiled down to "I just personally prefer it", but yeah, idk, heavys just cool, and I like to play him.

[@rafdaguy6103]

I would just like to make a point, that if you can play smart, move around, and manage to catch enemies off guard in close quarters, it is basically impossible to win against someone with simultaneously the highest health and the highest dps in the game when you’re at their mercy. Getting into these situations where you can actually ambush players at close quarters can actually become more natural overtime as your game sense and map sense improves, allowing you to make a huge dent in the enemy line of you play your cards right. Or you could, y’know, be that “frontline sponge” that does long range chip damage with a medic glued to you

[@Guy_GuyGuy]

You should be able to kill someone after catching them off guard using almost any class. Even a medic switching to melee can do it more often than not. A class that can only kill people when they aren't paying attention isn't impressive, especially when they're the largest, slowest, and least capable of flanking.

[@rafdaguy6103]

@@Guy_GuyGuy But heavy also has the ability to quickly dispatch entire groups of enemies very quickly, much quicker than, say, scout, when done correctly. I'm not saying that Heavy is a good class, but he can be a powerful force that's hard to beat simply because of his stats when played in the right hands.

[@Finnboy-ml5jv]

WHO?! WHO HATES HEAVY?! BRING ME ALL OF THEIR HEADS! I’LL MAKE THEM PAY FOR THIS!

[@tonyr978]

Heavy is the class that needs people to win, and while you can say that about a lot of other classes as well, usually they have ways around that. Scout, Soldier, Demo have movement to avoid dmg or run to areas fast, pyro has an airblast for a get off me tool or to reflect projectiles, engi has sentries to back him up, spy can go invisible and not get noticed by people, Sniper doesn't even have to be with his team as long as he has a sightline. The only other merc that also needs teammates is the medic so he can keep them alive and so they can keep him alive. Heavy is a class that relies heavily (hehe pun) on his teammates to do anything, even if it's only just one medic healing him, Heavy gets punished so easily.

[@peika8324]

Or you can be the one leading the charge, you will die but it works….(it really depends on the map)

[@Duncecap64]

This is what we refer to in game design as "Stat sticks" where the power of the class is purely on stats. For example heavy has the most hp and DPS, while also being the slowest. There is this design as it makes it easy to balance from a simple numbers game and its simplicity makes it easy for new players, the fact its simple makes it limited. If heavy had say 100% move speed he would be incredibly oppressive. A good example is a Queen VS 8 pawns in chess, while the queen is more powerful due to sheer raw stats, pawns with the ability to protect each other VIA capture and spacing can beat a stat stick queen with good counterplay while the queen is limited to captures only, 1 at a time. The heavy is similar, simple but when at advantage that raw stats really start to matter since its effectively a "Win more" class. If you are winning its great, if you are loosing that heavy is only compounding the issue due to limited options.

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

I wonder say more as a balancing factor then a win more or lose harder class.

[@Duncecap64]

@@greenoftreeblackofblue6625 its because of the design it ended up as a "Win more" class. Put simply the design ended up with a class whos impact is lower but has a very clear "Win condition " that upon getting it will be hard to break. 3 heavies on a cart is notorious for how hard it is to remove them as 900 HP on the cart is very hard to remove. In a 1v1 an open mid to close range fight while reved is the win con. Issue is heavy has few options to force that win con as his damage is purely sustained, takes time to ramp up (Rev + Ramp up) and is purely hitscan meaning Los must be maintained. If anything breaks there is not much heavy can do to force the issue but if he gets exactly what he wants its very hard to remove him

[@moonmelons]

When you say that Heavy doesn't require good positioning because he lacks mobility, you have it backwards. In fact, for the same reason that you say Heavy's aiming needs isn't as high as a class like Scout or Sniper. Because Heavy has no way to course-correct bad positioning. If you're in a bad position as a Soldier or a Scout? Just, just leave. Literally just remove yourself from your own bad positioning with your mobility. You're not in a good position? That's okay, you can just mobility TO that good position. But Heavy? If you get caught out in a bad position that's it, you're going to die unless the enemy team drops the ball. While some classes can say "Oh no, I have found myself caught out and am going to die if I stay here, so I will leave", Heavy has to say "Oh no, I have found myself caught out and am going to die if I stay here, so I will die." Now you can say that his mobility skill is the absolute bottom of the bin in skill value (or second lowest just above Sniper) because he doesn't have a lot of options for how he moves around the environment during a fight, and thus doesn't really have to think about it at all. But he DOES have to think immensely about how he positions himself BEFORE a fight begins, because he doesn't have any option to change it DURING the fight. His success and failure banks heavily on how he prepares for a fight, and positions himself before one because he has to commit a lot harder than any other class. Now I'm not here to try to convince you that ACTUALLY, HEAVY IS THE SUPER SEKRET HIGHEST SKILLED CLASS IN THE GAME. Because, I mean; he isn't. But it's also TF2, and no matter what class you play you can devote thousands of hours at it and still be able to get better at it. You don't have to like Heavy. Being slow, thoughtful, more planned out, and existing more as a wave of pressure than an exciting playmaker making frags that would make any montage proud isn't for everyone. Or for most people. But it is for SOME people.

[@landodjango8107]

>Sniper avatar >"Man Heavy sucks" Its not a maybe, you *definitely* don't get the appeal of Heavy

[@JohnJones-mp3in]

Next video Why Spaceguyonline hates Milk Why Milk is hated

[@Gigabyte019]

Your editing skills have improved. I liked the edit with the phlog when you talked about aim, and the short SFM bits. Looking forward to next community created game mode tier list!

[@BozoBeatsFR]

That's why heavy needed the jungle inferno update more than pyro

[@Kimo_uwu]

But, don't forget that Pyro required it as well.

[@Dr_Dan_]

pyro before JI was absolute trash, he was BAD. its a good thing that he got his update

[@waffles9733]

I honestly think good positioning is really important for Heavy Other classes also need to position themselves properly, I don't deny that, but due to Heavy's slow speed he gets punished for bad positioning much harsher

[@daniel-saurusrex586]

heavy is the class where you devote you life to the objective and thats why I enjoy playing it because dopamine of stopping an 6-man pub push while defending the level three dispenser the f2p engie left on the point and forgot about

[@themilkmannequin1772]

"The Widowmaker is a shotgun that can instantly fire if your aim is good." Ah yes, it's a well-known fact that the Widowmaker, unless your aim is good, has to rev up before firing.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

This would be a good point if I actually said instantly and didn't say infinitely. Even youtubes horrendous auto captions still picked up on that word choice.

[@xenowarsgames3806]

Heavy isn't low damage, he's just small damage per hit. Dude has 9 pellets a shot, and shoots 90 pellets a second, each pellet does around 6 damage up close, meaning at heavys preferred range, you're doing a lot of DPS. You have only 3 options to play heavy: Standard Heavy, Fat Scout, and melee heavy. Mix the KGB with a shotgun, and your damage per shot can skyrocket. Melee heavy can be scary, but not optimal. Heavy is slow, sure, but the fact he is able to dish out so much damage just for taking 1 more step forward is the draw. Sniper pretty much does just boil down to clicking on heads, as almost every other skill possible is invalid if you can just hit heads. At least with heavy, you can learn when to toss your sandwich and do more than shoot, even when you get really good at shooting. If you're good at quickscopes, the jarate or SMG become useless as they won't kill your enemy in 0.2 seconds minimum like a quickscope.

[@Lerre]

heavy fires 4 pellets per shot and 40 pellets a second.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

he has 4 shots per second and deals a base damage of 9, 13.5 max

[@MrFireGabe]

Yeah kinda funny to me the guy who plays sniper calls heavy "one dimensional". As if sniper isn't also, it really does just boil down to click heads. To each their own though.

[@verbugterherrderdunkelheit6086]

If you think, you can't genuinly hate Heavy, you never played on payload defence against 6 heavies before.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Class stacking is annoying regardless of class, I'll say arguably that Heavy and Spy are the least powerful stackers though

[@verbugterherrderdunkelheit6086]

@@SpaceGuyOnline I'd say Sniper and Scout are worse for stacking than heavy in addition.

[@TokyoDrift456]

as someone who plays the equivalent to heavy in another shooter, for me personally, theres just something fun about mowing people down with a big gun

[@turtlelord8021]

what equivalent in what shooter, I think I know what you're saying but I need confirmation

[@TokyoDrift456]

@@turtlelord8021 all-star in pvz garden warfare 2

[@EngineerFromPvZ]

​@@TokyoDrift456 Boo! Engineer better!

[@Thomas-vn6cr]

I do wish Heavy could tank in a dynamic way. Such as how the vaccinator gives different resistances, or a way to absorb damage like an airblast but in the form of brief uber, something interesting like that. There's currently no way to interact with taking damage as heavy, and I'd love to see that change.

[@literallyvergil1686]

Maybe a shield of some kind he can pull up for a short period, doom eternal has a similar thing for it's minigun

[@chongwillson972]

@@literallyvergil1686 i wonder , when the heavy update comes , would they include a shield for heavy , and/or a massive shotgun , like maybe a punt gun, or a 4 gauge pump action shotgun?

[@literallyvergil1686]

@@chongwillson972 that sounds pretty fucking cool so I hope so

[@chongwillson972]

@@literallyvergil1686 the punt would replace the mini gun though.

[@anitabath8315]

Reason I hate heavy: When I play him, I get good medics that stay out of danger, so I rarely ever use the sandvich. But when I play medic, I get bad heavies who either don’t have it equipped or use it selfishly.

[@combinemetrocop4213]

That's why I don't ask for medics to follow me. I don't like to be followed, that is why I use family business

[@HamWeildingTank]

this is why we need the heavy update

[@TheFEARSlayer01]

Honestly poor Heavy needs a new update or something to give him an alternative playstyle. I think making items to really make Fat Scout into a proper subclass would be a good start

[@HamWeildingTank]

@@TheFEARSlayer01 yes, and for boxer heavy, also maybe opening more subclasses with different risks and rewards

[@mateusrabelo7890]

You show great points, but you did our boy Heavy dirty with how you present it some times

[@MeatCanInc]

As someone who mains heavy, the thing i like about him is that by being So stunted as a class, you have no choice but to get creative with what you do as him, for instance, the fact you basically can't walk with the brass beast means that now the besy strategy is to camp a important area, as a class that's supposed to be on the frontline, or the exact opposite of the brass beast, the tommyslav, doing basically 10% less damage means you can't just out-gun anyone and just heal after that, you gotta think twice with who you will pick a fight with, what also means sometimes you need to use that faster rev and unrev time to tfo before too much dmg piles on you

[@scoople6]

I think it's the simplicity of Heavy that I enjoy. His job is straightforward but still feels important. He adds a kind of presence to a choke or an objective. Like you can't ignore him because of his high health and damage, so he tends to draw aggro which can make space for the other classes. Again it feels simple to play him, but it also feels like I'm making an impact.

[@Anton-de5vu]

I remember having a dream where heavy got a new loadout build that was kind of like demo-knight, super mobile at the cost of being melee-only, he had boots that increased his jump height and speed while replacing his primary, and a melee that had a sort of combo system, with an alt fire that slammed the ground, sending enemies backwards and into the air.

[@WaterBisquitte]

Heavy can feel bad sometimes, but when you get good at Heavy, you are the danger. Especially with a pocket medic

[@cromtuiseagain]

I live for the moments the killfeed is nothing but my name, minigun icon, and the five people I managed to delete with my pocket medic. That's why I main heavy. Everything else, especially his downsides, is secondary or an inevitable hurdle to keep chasing that high. There's nothing like the feeling you get when you're on the top of the scoreboard and the other team just can't figure out that they literally need one good sniper or their own heavy to take you down but they're too stubborn to adjust.

[@enderborn017]

I enjoy playing Heavy because I can use my high dps to tear through enemies without worrying about magazines, direct hits, or rocket jumping. Its fun holding or pushing onto a point and watching all of the enemies trying to keep/take it disintegrating. Its especially great on payload attack where you have infinite ammo and regeneration.

[@Dingus_Khaan]

Heavy relies on map awareness in a way that is on par with Sniper. However, instead of positioning for long-range efficacy, you have to position for mid- and close-range efficacy. Catch him out of position and he's a pork steak lathered in lead-based barbecue sauce, but face him _in_ position and he's a force to be reckoned with. His biggest strength is not going after enemies, but in waiting for them to come to him. Thus, you have to position yourself in ways that force the enemy to walk right into your death zone with their only options being to run away and get gunned down or face you head-on and get gunned down. Heavy's biggest role is active area denial. Unlike a Demo or Engi, Heavy doesn't need much setup to lock down an area, whether that's around an objective or around a choke point, places the enemy's gonna have to occupy one way or another.

[@FamiliarReece]

the best part about playing heavy is probably using the gru to flank around effectively and get a big bunch of kills which sounds hard until you learn to get good enough at it, though the pyro does this easier doing it with heavy feels unique

[@Smona]

I love how most of these videos are about how annoying they are to fight while this one is about how annoying it is to play as

[@afosandstufflol]

As a Heavy Main, I generally like heavy because of his tankiness. Hes slow and vulnerable if hes not positioned good. But when he is, hes a great threat. Like sniper in a weird way, his class rewards good positioning by making you less vulnerable. His food items also allow him to not worry about needing a medic and again, because of his good positioning he can dish out great damage.

[@afosandstufflol]

Also when you DO talk about heavy requiring a medic to be decent you dont mention his food items. Just a tad weird.

[@cloudchaser8650]

"no universal f u to him"...? What? Heavy is the only class where every time he gets a new damage weapon its nerfed almost the next day because "oh my god heavy op plz nerf". I have found that most people are ok with heavy... But only if heavy is almost completely de-fanged. I forget the name, but there was a server i played on that would actively ban people for playing heavy because and i quote "Heavy is the most brain dead class and shouldnt be in the game. He should remain as a mascot." (This was back in 2015 btw) The most positive thing i have heard from someone other than a heavy main is "he's the easiest class to headshot, so he's good for beginner snipers to snipe at".

[@Kohchu]

With Heavy, I think Lazypurple put it best. If you're winning, Heavy is fun as hell. If you're losing... ughhhhhh... This is just how Heavy is designed to be. All the other classes in TF2 are built around burst damage high risk/high reward playstyles... Heavy however, is the only class who has a static, rapid source of DPS up close. So the purpose of Heavy, is to apply extreme pressure to the enemy. If you hear a Minigun revving up, you now have to win the fight you're in fast; or you're going to be subjected to a mass of unavoidable damage that will rapidly kill you. This is the value, and why Defensive Heavy is so much easier to play then Offensive Heavy. Heavy is meant to be the anchor that holds the team together. A Heavy who's team works around him, is the scariest type of Heavy... because unless you have a godlike Sniper or Spy on the team, you're going to struggle to take him down without a lot of focus fire, which in Casual, is bloody hard to do... But, I do really wish they'd give Heavy an Alternate Playstyle... he's such a fun class, but he lacks any real depth, unlike every other class.

[@Chillco600]

no, just no, heavy can take skill, knowing who to take on and when, knowing who you should be focusing on in a push(person with the highest potential to screw up your team on a push, demomen with splash damage that can damage your entire team or a enemy heavy that can push you right back), even knowing the ideal way to make the most dps out of your bullets instead of just spraying at them, no class in the game is capable of having NO layers, hell if you do literally no attacking or sandvich dropping as heavy you can still be a great asset to your team by literally just getting a medic and bieng an obstacle by eating a sandvich while bieng healed during a push, you can just absorb bullets like no other class can, thats the beuty of heavy, he offers something no other class can even get close to, how compact and tanky he is, every other class is squishy in comparison so even if he cant dodge in some cases he doesnt even NEED to, he can just be a high dps immovable bullet sponge and thats his skill, just like sniper has the skill of literally one shotting classes with so much ease its stupid or engi has the skill of dealing heavy level dps, healing his team like a medic, and offering the ability to literally teleport for his entire team, heavy is always atleast somewhat of an asset to his team no matter the skill hes putting in, but he can be a immovable wall if you put some skill in

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

@@Fish-tz8yn I never understood this argument because it's obviously an opinion, it's not like I'm trying to say it's a proven factual statement, even if I said the exact opposite and said Heavy was fun, that would still be an opinion. I can only provide extremely good points as to why the opinion can be seen that way with the only real fact I try to say is that the video is an opinion shared by a majority of people rather than a minority

[@lordgrub12345]

In the skill ceiling part you said that every class needs good aim, good positioning and good game sense but heavy needs much better positioning and game sense (the part about aim...not so much) then majority of the other classes due to his slow movement speed and lack of mobility tools. It's not a lie that heavy as a low skill ceiling but he has a high skill floor. Overall, great video and very fair and informative. Keep up the great work

[@CurlyHairedRogue]

Eh… gonna have to disagree on Heavy being easy here. Snipers turn him to mince meat if he oversteps, so he’s forced to play defensively, Spies, scouts, and other flankers can kill him swiftly if he isn’t paying attention because his hulking frame makes him an easy target, And his class features overall require him to have a sense of what’s happening around him so he can be proactive about where he is. He doesn’t have a lot of variety, for sure, and when compared to the mechanics of other classes, his are notably simpler… _But…_ just because his role isn’t placed on the end of a Rube Goldberg machine, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have incredible amounts of nuance. For instance: Positioning himself in places that reduce the amount of threats he has to deal with, while still allowing him to deal damage. Behind walls just high enough to block your body, on top of higher locations to drop down onto enemies, on low ground so you can control the amount of cover you have, etc… Deciding on lunchbox items or self defense options based on available healing, and whether you’d be better-served by a back-up weapon to deal with surprise attacks. Hell, your health pool makes you the best meatshield in the game against an Uber. If the enemy pops, and you need to help your engi, you can pull out Fists of Steel or even the Tickle Mittens to stuff that Uber and render the push neutered. This class is by far one of the biggest challenges to play in the game when so much can punish you for poor positioning, and there’s a fair amount you can do to balm those irritations that requires you to really pay attention and interact with your team. I get the opinion, because I used to hold it myself, but I stand by the fact that heavy is one of the funnest, and most tactically interesting classes in the game.

[@ethan5915]

5:39 I notice that Medic's skill celing is really low too. However, part of the things that make the skill celing for these classes not quite so "easy" is the fact that they have to navigate through sniper sightlines, explosive damage, have to avoid spies, deal with engie buildings, etc, all with their (limited) base movement. Scout can easily double jump, or Soldier can rocket jump, or Spy can invis. Even Demo can sticky jump, pyro can equip Detonator or Jetpack, and Engie can sentry jump. As for Heavy and Medic, they are close ranged, have no legitimate burst to speak of (so they can't play hit-and-run), have to stay in the forefront of the fight, while having equipment that requires them to stay for a WHILE in the forefront (e.g, building ubercharge, revving up and arguably even shooting baddies with funny gun) While Medic actually gets pay-off when he stays in that dangerous position (stock ubercharge, kritz, crossbow), Heavy... really kind of doesn't. I mean you do a ton of damage, but it's been demonstrated lots and lots of times that it's not even the highest DPS in the game (outside of a target holding completely still and being in melee range). In addition, despite it's high raw DPS, it doesn't matter in the long run if you would have killed that same character in two clean pipes/shotgun blasts on any other class. In addition, I'd even add that you really don't have all that much even compared to W+M1 Pyro. At least there's a very low skill requirement there, less aim, and full movespeed. All you get in exchange for that is 125 health and (maybe) more damage. Buff Heavy. Please.

[@dr.pastor]

Gosh darn it that onion joke got me, anyways thanks for a great video spaceguy its always nice to see these videos come out

[@mineflow4139]

I mean you are right about the whole every fps game needs game sense aim and good postioning but heavy needs to take those things to the extreme he needs to keep tabs on the enemy spy more than every other class since he is so vulnerable to them he needs to now where the sniper is peeking so he doesn't walk in to his sightline and die instantly he needs to track down jumping demos and soldiers with precise tracking and again know where they are and how they are are they low? do they have enough ammo? is he overhealed? I think the problems with heavy is al because he is so vulnerable because of his limited movement though I agree he is the easiest class even after all of this nice video love your vids keep em up

[@1mariomaniac]

Honestly I've never really hated a heavy player. It's always either "ah you got me" or "oops I wasn't prepared for that fight." Because of heavy's speed, unless he surprises you, you can kinda just run away lol. Snipers and spies on the other hand... Edit: btw haven't watched the vid yet this is just what I thought when I read the title.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

The character or class that is a god among men when the other guy uses him, and worthless when you use him almost always has this feel.

[@shiftbutbad]

You're getting better at this SFM stuff Also heavy is cool

[@lucasdacarinha]

I like this series and i am curious on how are you gonna do medic

[@Arigiske]

He already did?

[@Small_child_punter]

I really respect heavy, which is why I try to main him. I respect what he can do if you’re smart enough and good enough at tracking. He can’t move around as well so if one is rolling your team, you know that person has honed in on and mastered being the big man of the team. The juggernaut that doesn’t have any nonsense to his gun and will shred you to pieces.

[@hidelph682]

getting alot better with sfm! love the lighting and black lines

[@crumpet9193]

I love the improvement to you're videos man, keep up the good work mate.

[@goldenknife3835]

First off, I’m a scout main, and heavy is my third most played class. This is a strange video. It seems more like you personally don’t like heavy, thus refuse to acknowledge any and all criticism of your points. Positioning has to be the largest issue here; your claim is that having more positions makes positioning harder, which I feel is a bit silly. Your argument here would suggest soldier and demo positioning is more important than medic or spy, since they have less positions available, which isn’t true. Heavy has the least amount of Escapability, so being aware of yourself, your team, and the enemy, is all more important than a scout or soldier, who have lower punishments for being out of position. In addition, he’s one of the classes that depends on his class the most, other than medic, engineer, and arguably spy. Since he can’t get to ammo or health nearly as easy without leaving your team with their major front line. Also, find it hilarious that you critique heavy for his lack of versatility, when spy, scout, and sniper all fill the same role despite weapons, where as different heavy weapons reward different play styles, such as the tommy prioritizing surprising players around corners and flanking, compared to the brass beasts front line defensive stronghold. Granted, I don’t think this takes as much skill as classes listed above, (I can’t betray my baby Boy Scout), but arguing there’s no variance is silly. Also, yeah- people don’t hate playing an amazing heavy, but I don’t hate fighting an amazing pyro, engineer, medic, or demo either. Now to address some of your comments here in the comments. heavy is not the least played, most disliked, or “worst” class. He’s not even the most picked by new players. He’s middle of the pack in just about all of those, the one category that he does fall into is the least mained, which if that’s your breaking point, okay, I disagree that that is the best metric, but sure. It seems like you terribly misplayed this class. From stating that people he defend him are kidding themselves or to arguing the heater is better at close range than the others, I honestly don’t understand how you can make those points as a person who played heavy. Heavy doesn’t take as much skill as sniper That doesn’t mean he’s a “noob trap class with No versatility or required skill”, It just means that he takes less skill.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Don't think you fully watched the video or fully proof read your comment. The essence that a class has more options for mobility and positioning instantly means that they need to relie on it more, that's just simple mathematics since you need to focus and worry about your horizontal and vertical height now. You also stat that because Heavy has less mobility, he's punished for being out of position harsher than Scout or Soldier when the punishment for being out of position is taking damage, something Heavy excels at since he has 300 HP and not 125 HP As for weapon variety, people have mentioned the Tomislav time and time again being opened up to a more flanking playstyle which would be fine but that's not exactly a playstyle as it is moreso just simple game design or choice, I would say the weapon rewards flanking but it doesn't open up the opportunity for it or anything. It's like saying the Backburner is a completely new and unique flamethrower that doesn't function anything at all like stock because it works best in flanks. I can assure you people loathe fighting against a good Medic, Demo or Engineer. I would even argue that people who do have issues fighting Heavy only have issues with the fact he has a Medic with him. In terms of being recognized as one of the least played classes, this is something that you even mention has the concept of Heavy mains is extremely rare and if there's not many Heavy mains that obviously means that there aren't many Heavys. I see how numerical that's a flawed rating system but logical it isn't And finally the thing that proves you didn't watch the video in its entirety is that you legitimately believe I thought I made the argument that Heavy was a "noob class and 2 ez" when I literally make the exact opposite argument saying that because he has a lower skill floor and ceiling that he becomes extremely boring to play with little and de-emphazied growth

[@goldenknife3835]

@@SpaceGuyOnline more positions does not equal harder positioning. Pyro does not take more positioning knowledge than spy because he has a detonator equipped. The only situation in which health is better than mobility when caught out of position is when it’s one target, which, yeah- being solo against a heavy is pretty much a death sentence. But most of the time when a heavy is pressured it’s by a few to the entire team pressuring, in which running around the corner before half the roster can even fire a shot as scout or flying halfway accords the map in 2 seconds with a overload jump is much better than trying to run at a snails pace while taking damage. Id say that no weapons truly change how a class is played other than the shields, the gunslinger, rocket jumper, and MAYBE the dragons fury. Snipers with or without the bow are classes designed to pick off enemies at mid to long range, spies with the diamond back and Kunai still go for back line picks like the letranger /YER spies. Heavy with the tommy are often faster and safer getting out of position single target picks because of the faster and silent spin up with better accuracy. When paired with the gru that give you the speed to get behind them, rewards a certain play style, but doesn’t lock you into it. As for your argument for heavy being the least mained, the fact that he’s not the least picked gives you some sign that he’s still considered both valuable to a team and a fun secondary to rely on. Does it mean that soldiers, snipers, and engineers are the most fun classes in the game that those are the top three mains? And I think maybe you just take the game to personally? Even when I was playing in leagues I’d basically only get frustrated with engies, which is because I play scout and had to rely on my team.

[@MrRNN3]

Who ever came up wit that whacky skill ceiling chart has clearly not tried to airshot-heal teammates with the crusader's crossbow...

[@jessedempsey4759]

11:00 thats a pretty good point , but when you pile the rgob's speed boost with the buffalo steak sandvich you get to be about as fast as medic , even though you only have melee and 100 health it means that one of the 2 downsides of bss gets canceled out

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

The faster travel time from that would probably be off set by you waiting for the BSS to wear off and your health being brought back from the GRU Just realized you were talking about the overall boxer Heavy rather than mobility in general. Issue with GRU and BSS is that Heavy's health isn't 100 HP, it's essentially 80, that's right, the class with the highest HP in the game can also have it lowered to be the 2nd lowest possible.

[@mstticr]

I think you fundamentally misunderstand literally everything about Heavy lmao. You rant on Heavy for “lacking a high skill ceiling and having a low skill floor” which is honestly moronic of a claim. For the sake of argument, let’s completely forgo that “skill ceiling” claims lacks any objective evidence beyond “uh, my opinions!” Afterall, you unironically argued that Sniper has one of the biggest skill gaps between the floor and ceiling, which falls flat if you consider that the only actual relevant skill for Sniper is aiming; you even said that Sniper is one of the most linear classes in the game! You argue that the only worthwhile “high skills” are blast jumping, utterly ignoring the aspect that in 80-90% of cases, these “high skill jumps” are completely worthless in standard TF2. You argue that “positioning and gamesense” are mostly irrelevant skills, yet fail to consider they are constantly the most vital skillset for TF2, *especially* Heavy. Heavy takes positional and gamesense to such an extreme, it’s practically unseen by any other class other than Medic and maybe Engineer. You argue that Heavy is overly vulnerable to too many classes, I say you aren’t competent enough to understand how to demolish these classes. A well-positioned Heavy is practically impossible to dislodge without an overwhelming advantage. There’s a reason why Heavy is practically banned in 6s, and it’s not because he sucks. Sure, I won’t lie that Heavy lacks viable alternatives or mechanical depth in his primary weapons, but acting like flashy mechanics are the only thing worth discussing is a complete lie. Heavy is best described as a silent guardian and what he lacks in flashy skillsets more than makes up for in his capabilities he brings to the team. He will demolish you, even if you don’t notice it. That’s a class that not everyone can get into, which is completely fine. If nothing else you perfectly encapsulated how people are misguided.

[@witchlock2897]

Always look forward to seeing you upload!

[@lieutenantlettuce8306]

I think the main reason people don't seem to like Heavy is simply because he is more dependent on his team to get kills, Heavy isn't designed to have the fragging abilities of spy, scout, or soldier who can be all over the place and make game-changing picks. Heavy is the tank, and like a tank they can take a lot of punishment and deal it out, but they need support to do this. If a tank is left alone an enemy can easily climb on top open the lid to drop in a grenade unless there's a friendly there to shoot said enemy. When you play Heavy you are the game-changing pick, you make sure that as long as you live the enemy cannot push forward, you punish overextension and those without a plan much like a sentry, but you also provide a distraction for the enemy like the spy, sniper, or scout. Heavy is a simple class and concept and yet still an effective one, you exist to be the team's anchor, the constant, the immovable object, it isn't about using some gimmick to surprise the enemy, it's about putting them in their place with your suppression and durability.

[@melo-7904]

Heavy is one of the 2-3 classes that I can really get kills with as a f2p who has no real idea what I am doing but somehow managed to kill a sniper on hightower by abusing the chocolate bar and Natasha and hiding in the high tower The others being pyro (for similar reasons but doesn’t abuse healing) and engies because over cocky scouts

[@Shyguy-yu1cu]

I've noticed you sfm skills increase and grow, and it think your getting great at it :) can't wait to see the next vid.

[@lobsteragent6612]

change the title to "why i hate heavy"

[@TheMagnumDon]

Swear to god i never remembered being dominated by a Spy or Heavy

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

Heavy doesn't have mechanical depth, but he DOES still demand at-least a HIGHER game-sense then most other classes. Your lack of mobility makes you extremely easy to punish, meaning you need to be constantly predicting the eb and flow of the game. Know when to push, hold, retreat, etc. Most highly experienced TF2 players forget this, because this game-sense becomes instinctive after a while. Unlike aiming, it's way harder to notice improvement. What Heavy NEEDS is more mechanics that help emphasize the development of a unique game-sense. Look at Medic for an example of this. Healing teammates is mechanically dead easy. The class's complexity comes ENTIRELY from its unique game-sense ceiling, because you have to be managing both enemies AND allies. In other class-based shooters, tanks often take up pseudo-supportive roles. Their job isn't just to soak up damage, but also protect allies, ensuring that they need to be actively thinking of allies. I think Heavy would really benefit from a way to more actively protect teammates.

[@ryguy4465]

This is the first time I’ve heard the Everhood soundtrack outside the game, it really doesn’t get much attention

[@pandemonium2536]

"No mindless weapon" Natascha: "Allow me to introduce myself"

[@combinemetrocop4213]

Natascha isn't that game changing If you dodge well, it won't help the heavy, if you just rush him, that's your fault. Man I love doing that to overconfident scouts

[@pandemonium2536]

@@combinemetrocop4213 Game changing? No. Mindless? Yes. It's the definition of a crutch man, it does less damage but makes it easier to hit targets by slowing them.

[@Kaledrone]

@@pandemonium2536 "Keep crying, baby!" - Heavy

[@SheLikesLoons]

Saying heavy requires low skill isnt true when you get punished so hard by everything In the game. That's why you need a lot of skill in order to not have this happen to you. You NEED to be skilled to be good with heavy unlike other classes. Also bringing in this class is boring and 1 dimensional while maining the single most broken class and even more simple than heavy doesnt seem to make sense. Also fun is subjective so not really something you can bring to an argument

[@wwrainbowbeastrainbowbeast9687]

10:25 So by that logic demoKnight is not a subclass since he doesn’t use his primary sniper has more than one option for melee like demoknight

[@luciuswrath290]

No way, sniper with generic "aim at the head" skillset have one of the highest ceilings in the game... Like, every FPS player can play sniper better than every other class And also, spy, medic, pyro (yes, flare is a thing), scout, demo, soldier, even engie have something except aim to train, but they share the same, or bit lower/higher skill ceiling (not counting medic, pyro and demo. My opinion-they have really high skill ceiling, but nobody likes to train it) Yes, graph is more important than whole video

[@luciuswrath290]

No waaay, every class needs aim, but sniper still have one of the highest skill ceiling

[@strain3652]

You dont play sniper

[@luciuswrath290]

@@strain3652 i do, but it's boring af even if you are aggressive. Quickscope still is generic "aim for the head"