Thankfully, some forms of communication require no universal translator

[@brokenursa9986]

Human: "So we call the far north part of our homeworld the Arctic, and the far south part the Antarctic." Alien: "So Bearland and Not Bearland. Weird names, but okay." Human: "Wait, that's not what I said. It's Arctic and Antarctic." Alien: "Yeah, I got that. Bearland and Not Bearland."

[@sparks2022]

Well are there any bears down there?

[@Tank50us]

@@sparks2022 Here, take this shovel... we're goin' diggin'

[@danielrhouck]

Alien 2: What? Why do you call the white areas of your planet “brown” and “not brown”?

[@heliosspecialistarrogant7031]

​@@danielrhouck see wen they where discover segregation was still in effect

[@mowgli2071]

@@brokenursa9986 To be fair, the aliens will call it that too, after a couple inevitable mishaps with polar bears

[@enoughothis]

Alas the poor Babel Fish, having removed all barriers to communication between cultures and species was responsible for more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of Creation.

[@HBHaga]

English is, after all, four languages in a trench coat lurking in dark alleys to shake down other languages for bits of grammar and syntax.

[@brokenursa9986]

Five languages. Dutch, French, Danish, Latin, and Greek, and in the US specifically you can add a hearty splash of Spanish on top of that.

[@MechanicaMenace]

​@@brokenursa9986more Norman than French. And you're forgetting Portuguese. And all the Celtic influences. And lots of stuff from India and other parts of Asia. And Old English actually still has a massive influence. Danish is a weird one. In "official" English there's not actually much and about half of what there is we're not sure if it's of Danish origin or from shared root languages. But when you get into northern English and Scottish dialects it bumps the word count well above Dutch and Dutch has contributed 0.5% of the English vocabulary which sounds low but isn't really. And American English surprisingly doesn't have much more influence from Spanish than British English. British more related to Spain and American more related to Mexico etc but on balance about the same. Italian on the other hand has had much more influence on the language through America though.

[@brokenursa9986]

@@MechanicaMenace You’re right, I did miss the Celtic influences, but Norman French is still a form of French, and I said Dutch just because Old Dutch and Old English were very closely related. I recognize that Dutch itself has had little influence. The Danish one is a bit of a mixed bag, but historical linguists are fairly confident that many words beginning with the “sk-“ consonant cluster, like “skip,” “skill,” “skiff,” etc. were introduced to English by the Danes, as by the time of the viking invasions, that sound in English had fully shifted over to the “sh” sound we have now. Portuguese doesn’t have a significant influence that I’m aware of. I’d argue German has been much more influential than Portuguese has.

[@MechanicaMenace]

Portuguese hasn't had a massive wordcount influence but a lot of the words it has loaned to English are important words. Embarrass, Junk, Launch, Lingo, Marmalade, Caramel, Mosquito, Savvy, etc. It's a bit like the political alliance between Portugal and England, old and low-key but surprisingly important. Also Norman just been French... speakers of Norman languages (there are still some) would disagree, and not because of any sort of "Francophobia"... But meh, English being a bastard language is one of its strengths. And I'd be surprised if it hasn't had a big influence on every extant language it has begged, borrowed, or stolen from too.

[@markfergerson2145]

The last half of that refers to James Nicoll writing about the “purity” of the English language. Where did the trench coat part come from?

[@vvvvvvvvvwvvvvw]

The best thing about Sisko punching Q is that it worked. Picard played along with Q's games, trying to win with philosophy and morality, and Q came back again and again. Sisko decked him once and he was never seen again. Until Voyager at least.

[@fix0the0spade]

I like to imagine Q having all kinds of petty games to play with Sisko, only to find himself suddenly fixed upon one single moment in time, unable to leave and rooted to the moment. A very polite voice says to him, "Please cease to interfere with the Sisko," and then everything is back to normal. Q doesn't know how it happened, he doesn't really know who said it, but he gets the message. There are many interesting toys to play with in existence, that one belongs to someone else.

[@MechanicaMenace]

​@@fix0the0spadethat would be saying a wormhole alien is more powerful than a Q. And if he wasn't deterred it would be saying the opposite. The writers wouldn't want either.

[@lordfirebeard8569]

@@fix0the0spade Fuckin G-Man got to Q

[@vonshroom2068]

Instead we had aliens that made a bet with Quark that had sisko play hobscotch to not die in a pocket dimension.

[@fix0the0spade]

@@MechanicaMenace I wouldn't say it's about power levels so much as being able to interact with Q on Q's level. Most races in Star Trek can't perceive that Q even exists unless Q allows it. The same way The Federation's attitude to a rock changes completely if the rock suddenly demonstrates sentience, something that can not only perceive Q but interact with him on it's own terms is something Q would automatically take seriously. It's a fellow higher being even if Q doesn't necessarily know who or what it is. To avoid conflicts of power level there could have been a simple explanation, the Continuum forbids any Q from conflict with other higher beings, both for the Continuum's safety and the safety of all the lower races. Someone asked Q to leave Sisko alone, so now Q has to leave Sisko alone or face the rest of the Q.

[@stevenclark2188]

At least the Ferengi had the good sense to put the translators in their ear canals.

[@BobMcBobJr]

That way they don't have to invent mind control to hear the person talking into their radio.

[@thestabbybrit4798]

If you are starting to suspect the British are doing this deliberately, if not vindictively... Welcome to English. Jog on.

[@josephd.5524]

re: universal translators and colloquialisms, the Australian 'get a dog up ya' or 'I ain't here to fuck spiders' will no doubt cause consternation.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Ah, put some cheese in your coffee and calm down.

[@611fk]

Rappakalia.

[@m0rtez713]

W-what?

[@josabar8561]

After going up in Townsville, Queensland, Australia, the irony of this topic is not lost on me.

[@TheGenericavatar]

Dock Master, you're talking to the inhabitants of a world who named their planet after dirt...

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Many such cases.

[@boobah5643]

That seems rather like complaining that a group called itself "The People" in their language. Which is just about everyone.

[@john-Ro]

@@SacredCowShipyards Star control 2 has an interesting example the Supox come from a world called Earth (their word is actually Vlik) or rather it's "Perfectly good and nutritious dirt".

[@joeldierker5982]

just to clear up desert classification... they're all determined by annual rainfall... hence the Sahara being a "hot" desert and Antarctica being a 'cold' desert

[@markfergerson2145]

Yeah. There are at least three separate deserts in the state of Arizona alone with different average annual temperatures. Hence there is such a thing as a temperate desert, too.

[@Ichijoe2112]

3:46 Aye that Wabbit's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!

[@stewm1267]

Does it have big, sharp, pointy teeth?

[@Ichijoe2112]

@@stewm1267 He's got huge, sharp-- eh-- he can leap about-- look at the bones

[@tortenschachtel9498]

O'Neill: We'll cross that bridge when we get there. Bra'tac: No. The bridge is too well guarded.

[@mitchelloates9406]

"California Class Dumbazz Ship" - I found that appropriate in more than one way....

[@ericwilner1403]

Imagine a mechanical translator attempting to deal with, e.g., "Good morning." ("What a lot of things you do use Good morning for!" said Gandalf.) Regarding place names, I like Terry Pratchett's take: "When the first explorers from the warm lands around the Circle Sea travelled into the chilly hinterland they filled in the blank spaces on their maps by grabbing the nearest native, pointing at some distant landmark, speaking very clearly in a loud voice, and writing down whatever the bemused man told them. Thus were immortalised in generations of atlases such geographical oddities as Just A Mountain, I Don't Know, What? and, of course, Your Finger You Fool."

[@mowgli2071]

"If I were to tell you to not think about a pink elephant" I'm thinking about the white bear, yes

[@ericwilner1403]

I was thinking about a Babel fish (in a pink ear).

[@derekburge5294]

The hour of payment passed! Dockmaster, his heuristics enraged! The holy cubifier hums. The Dockmaster at rest.

[@MrDj232]

Do you think master Shifu knows about all these Desert deserts and River rivers? I'll ask him the next time we drink chai tea together.

[@markfergerson2145]

Ask him next time you see him at the ATM machine.

[@pcmacintyre]

@@markfergerson2145 Make sure he remembers his PIN number.

[@SoremRasmussen]

I absolutely love that a shortcut developed for television (so that writers didn't have to create a whole new language so often or viewers didn't have to read subtitles....we are sometimes a lazy species, which isn't necessarily always a bad thing, there's a small difference between being lazy and efficient) has led to awesome episodes like "Shaka, When the Walls Fell" and, well, this one. Well done!

[@giladpellaeon1691]

That's why you get a protocol droid.

[@KenTails]

But they'll tell you the odds...

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Bad news.

[@logicplague]

"Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!" 👊

[@stewm1267]

Youweredemoted, for insubordination??

[@erikawhelan4673]

Earth, Adlai Stevenson, 1962

[@logicplague]

@@erikawhelan4673 ⭐

[@harryfrentz6899]

Ah yes, the age-old process of grabbing the nearest local and asking them loudly what that thing is in your language. Results include: "What?", "Your finger, you fool", and "Don't you know what a river is?"

[@uroghai3439]

How appropriate you bring up the Tamarians, given that I saw someone today write that understanding the sentence "The cat lawyer milkshake ducked" made them realize that we (or at least those of us who are terminally online) are Tamarians.

[@boobah5643]

Yes, but how many of us, when confronted by someone who clearly doesn't understand that sort of cultural reference, is completely incapable of sacrificing some nuance for simplicity? This, mind you, is my problem with "Darmok." It's fridge logic, at least for me, so it doesn't bother me while watching it, but it really gets in the way on further reflection.

[@Chris_Lohmann]

Darmok. One of my favorite TNG episodes of all time. “Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra!” RIP Paul Winfield.

[@mortoopz]

I love how he doesn't notice the rabbit thing = to be stood up, but that also makes exactly zero sense. You - "Yeah, she stood me up" Alien - "Did you fall down?"

[@randlebrowne2048]

I'd imagine that "being stood up" originally had more words to convey that you were "left standing there". Language has a strong tendency to simplify over time.

[@BobMcBobJr]

@@randlebrowne2048 "She said she'd be right back but I was stood up there on that terrace for 4 hours at which point I decided to go." - Something like that

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Thankfully the memory engrams I stol... borrowed came with Idiomatic English For Dummies, but not all alien species will be so lucky.

[@jwb_666]

this goes back to oh why is there melee in sci fi. When all else fails, one can always just 🤜👊

[@mowgli2071]

In Star Trek they usually have universal translation even without the comm badge. Rarely do you see someone who is without a ship and a comm badge and a tricorder and a phaser who can't understand someone else. Farscape solved it directly, pretty well with their injection of translation microbes by being determined to bull through and not explain anything.

[@MrDj232]

It seems to be implanted in the ear. When Nog and Quark went back to Roswell they had to restart the translator to get it working. I would also assume there's some compatibility between translators that helps deal with tautologies and avoids translating swears.

[@markfergerson2145]

Star Trek is something of a special case- Klingons and Romulans in particular require any of their people who are expected to have contact with Federation personnel to be fluent in English (of whatever evolution English has achieved at the time) for purposes of intelligence gathering, hence we rarely but still occasionally hear them say something in their native languages. Federation translators probably do not bother activating in their presence. The Ferengi have implanted translators but have been known to learn the languages of their major trading partners. Also, those translators aren’t cheap, so learning languages can save you latinum. (The above from various Memory Alpha articles) Translation is handled in the ship’s computer that the badge is connected to, the badges themselves have some but limited translation ability depending on how much data storage they have. Federation personnel are also taught the major languages of the Alpha and Beta quadrants for those times when they lose their badges or comms are down.

[@CptJistuce]

​@@markfergerson2145Star Trek 6 also said the universal translator has a notable tone, and they had to speak actual klingon to bluff their way through an interaction. This also implies that at least a few folks in Star Fleet speak klingon, if only for purposes of skullduggery.

[@WillFredward7167]

When someone tells me not to think about a pink elephant, I immediately start thinking about Inception for just long enough to actively put my mind to something other than a pink elephant. But I might just be a weirdo

[@Progection]

19:38 Thinking about Red hammer

[@nomoss9600]

It always comes back to D Adams. Always. Well, at least 42.

[@RipRoaringGarage]

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra. Darmok on the ocean. Jalad, Chenza at court, the court of silence. Still, Darmok on the ocean. Shaka, when the walls fell. Jalad, Sokath, his eyes opened. Darmok Temba at rest. Jalad his eyes opened.

[@RipRoaringGarage]

What in the great maker did I write? Why does it actually make sense to me, and get me misty eyed?

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

Welcome to Burghville Town Montana! and about Avon, I know a place in Wales (near Newport) where you actually have two river Avons, one a tributary of the other.

[@Grimmance]

5:32 the noise cancelling is pretty easy, its just negative phased sound beamed at your ear. The hard part is getting the dubbing synced... But for serious they have "noise canceling" devices that are designed to put out auditory interfernce canceling out the sound wave with matched but inverse signals.

[@markfergerson2145]

Targeting sound has been done by beaming mixed ultrasound signals whose sum or difference is in the audible range- the down mixing is done automatically by the inner ear (amazing what our ears can do). Shouldn’t be hard to add in inverted external sound coming from the speaker being translated so that the translation is substituted for their live speech without affecting other sound.

[@BobMcBobJr]

Well, they do have super fast computers so I assume the translation itself can be nearly instant. I have absolutely no idea how they achieve lip syncing without at least having people speaking other languages have very weird cadence in the translated tongue. I also wonder how the computer determines inflection on the fly.

[@Grimmance]

@BobMcBobJr that's just it, we mostly get inflection right from any language we know, so assuming the algorithm is robust that's not a huge issue, especially if you have an "empathy" module, which is just something trained to learn emotional/physiological cues.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

It's more that there's a device on your left chest that sound-cancels and yet still sound-transmits for both your ear holes, no matter their orientation.

[@Grimmance]

@SacredCowShipyards of that I totally agree, I would understand if a cochlear style implant was actually part of the standard augments for starfleet personnel. I could even understand if the translator worked best to translate the things you say to someone else, which it's in a better position to do than it's primary function.

[@phluphie]

I had a professor back in college who translated Russian plays. She had the same problem. The example she gave me is in Russian, a cute, friendly girl is called a cucumber. A literal translation is kind of… ah… X rated. But a more accurate translation would be to call her a peach.

[@ralphsexton8531]

Amusingly and fitting the dock master's comments - the Brown Bear (or Bruin Bear) is Bear Bear, or properly Ursus Arctos Arctos, or Bear Bear Bear, and the Grizzly Bear (Ursus Arctos Horribilis) is Horrible Bear Bear. Amusingly, the Polar Bear, which lives in the Arctic, doesn't have Arctos in its name... it is Ursus Maritimus - Ocean Bear. Heh.

[@BobMcBobJr]

Well, yes, using their latin names but Brown, Grizzly, and Polar are fairly apt and descriptive. That one is brown. That one is scruffy and big. That one lives near the pole.

[@m0rtez713]

Oh no i hear it... Ocean Bear, take me by the hand. Lead me to the land you understand.

[@boobah5643]

@@BobMcBobJr 'Grizzly' means 'with pale tips.' And, indeed, grizzly bear fur has that feature. Yes, that's the same source as 'grizzled old prospector,' because he, too, has hair that's pale at the tips.

[@Grimmance]

4:25 the person bolted like a rabit from the situation. As in they got cold feet. I grew up with some french idioms as a French Canadian.

[@CptJistuce]

Well, why didn't they put some socks on?

[@Grimmance]

@@CptJistuce why put socks on when the act of running away will naturally warm the feet? Woth the added benefit of removing you from a stressful situation.

[@CptJistuce]

@@Grimmance I have no rebuttal.

[@The_McFortner]

5:28 Based on the scene in DS9's "Little Green Men" where the Ferengi smack their ears when the Universal Translator malfunctions, I think that the combadges pick up the speech to be translated, then sends the translation to an implant in the ear. This would also explain why the Away Teams can hear the communications so clearly while in a noisy environment and/or on a planet.

[@robertcain7630]

Granny Weatherwax from Terry Pratchett's Diskworld series had the perfect way to not think of a pink elephant. She didn't know what an elephant looked like. Also, "Once More With Feeling" ?? I would never have pegged you for a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan... Or is it Jerry Lee Lewis?? Your 'song' is always special

[@laminatedsamurai]

Here's an idiomatic pointer that seems both relevant and wildly age-gated: Ray, when Gozer forced the choice.

[@Tezunegari]

Steven, when the reference was understood.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Break out the Hersheys chocolate.

[@pfarnsworth84]

It just popped in there.

[@leadingauctions8440]

This old sailor's videos are always a treat.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Would that I had kept up that act longer.

[@judgedrekk2981]

Temba with his arms wide Dockmaster!

[@AlucardNoir]

How did the Babel fish translate what Marvin was saying again? I don't recall the books or the radio dramas, or the Tv show or the movie's explanation for it.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Honestly not sure it was ever explained, but it's fair to say that the fish caught on to whatever his size-of-a-planet brain was thinking.

[@seankeaney823]

Unfortunately when you depart to far from the “desert” desert, “river” river and “lake” lake you can end up with a Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg, supposedly it translates to “You fish on your side, I'll fish on my side, and no one shall fish in the middle".

[@whirledpeaz5758]

Always beware the White rabbit. A most deadly enemy in every mmorpg video game.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

E's got nasty teeth!

[@zotzot5]

dont forget the potamic river! also deathworlders has a cool universal translator idea that interfaces directly to the brain like the babel fish, then all the translators got hacked, and everything got really difficult.

[@karatos]

This is why I expect if we ever make first contact and translate their message it will mostly likely be, "Greetings from Planet Earth!"

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

And the answer would come out as "Hello Mr Planet Earth"

[@brokenursa9986]

Not necessarily, depending on the quality of the translation. The term "planet" in English comes from the Greek "πλάνητες αστέρες" (plánetes astéres), which means "wandering stars", so saying "planet Earth" in English could come out to an alien as "wanderer Dirt". There's no reason to think aliens wouldn't have similar etymologies for their own terms.

[@meowford7276]

Ah fisticuffs the true intergalactic language

[@markfergerson2145]

Future version of “Everybody speaks Glock”?

[@m0rtez713]

And then there are women, who say and mean completely different things. Such as all time classics as: "Do you want to open the window?" meaning "Open the fucking window." "Are you hungry?" meaning "I want pizza specifically, right now." "Whatever, do what you want. I don't care." meaning "I dare you to do what you want." And "'I'm fine." meaning "I am not fine at all."

[@juliettedanielson3503]

13:51 I might be a linguistic elitist with that comment, but, as someone residing in Japan and with a degree in Japanese, the word "富士山" (aka Mt Mt Fuji) isn't read as "Fujiyama", but as "Fujisan". That's because the kanji for mountain (山) had a few different readings, classified into 2 categories: - Kanji by itself : Yama - Kanji with other kanjis: San or Sen. This is the case for most Kanjis, and the rule applies I the great majority of the time (exceptions exist). So, because it is a combo of 3 Kanjis, it has to be "Fujisan" and not "Fujiyama". If you ever see Fujiyama written anywhere, it is either because the text is very old and the English writers at the time didn't have a proper grasp of the Japanese Language, or whoever wrote it isn't really qualified in the language... Or someone wanted to make their sushi shop sound very Japanese but didn't get an actual native to check it.

[@larandrew77]

Once more with feeling?? That explains the rabbit reference....because "Bunnies, bunnies it MUST BE BUNNIES....or maybe midgets?" :) My fav episode! Haze grey Dockmaster!!

[@SacredCowShipyards]

I've got a theory...

[@johncage5368]

I think we need to distinguish between languages already known to the universal translator and completely new ones (actual first contact situations). For the former: No problem at all (yes, left pectoral exclusively to owners ears or brain and better fast isn't exactly easy, but all the technology for making this happen is actually already there and we're talking about scifi in the future. If they figured out FTL travel and replicators, a UT is comparatively a piece of cake to throw a tasty idiom on your plate ... which is another one. ;)) For the latter: It is impossible to immediately translate an unknown language from the first word said. The universal translator (as would any xenolinguist) needs to hear a reasonable amount of sentences of the new language, preferably knowing about the context they were spoken in, to get a first rough idea. Reasonable sources for that information are not only the words spoken by people in hearing distance, but also all the electromagnetic waves the newly met aliens' communication devices on people, in ships, on planets, ... emit. Some (too few) StarTrek episodes elude to that and don't let the UT immediately come up with something nice. If you fly with a scifi high tech ship around Earth and let the computer analyze all radio and TV signals, they will very soon know how nuts we are ... probably still writing about our species and our little rock as "Mostly Harmless", because us pathetic dirt dwellers only made it to our own moon so far. Lucky us, because that's why they didn't nuke us just to make sure. ;)

[@startiger2]

I should have seen it coming, but didn't. I laughed out loud when you brought up the babel fish. At least it puts this whole "God" debate to rest finally.

[@RTYT504]

An interesting thought to how alien language might exist is the idea that the aliens we contact might not even have a language that could be spoken. This comes into play with science fiction species like the so call "Formics" from Scott Card's ender's game. In lore this is kinda hand wavy but boils down to studies that are currently being researched such as intermolecular connection (and the book was written long before these concepts really existed). This connection forms both the Ansible (a device for instant telecommunication) and "The Outside" which is used by the Formics and Jane (and the Mother trees if you wanna count those too).

[@brokenursa9986]

A similar lack of common medium exists in Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time. The "aliens" are a society of uplifted spiders who communicate through a mix of gestures and minute vibrations, the latter of which are usually transmitted through webs. When humans first make contact with the spiders, the spiders can't even recognize that the humans' vocalizations are intelligible language, and a captured human linguist is able to determine how the spiders communicate, but can only reproduce simple gestures for concepts like "food" and "water".

[@tirirana]

One would seriously expect the Tartar Pits to be further east than California.

[@sep0319]

PIZZA PIE? - come on have a slice.

[@demonocolips]

well from the DS9 episode where quark went back into time its implated in his skull. i assume that most people that plan on traveling or dealing with other languages get the implant. i cant remember how it interfaces with his vocal cords. i figure most translators emit a binary signal that interfaces like bluetooth to other translators and then starts translating based on the base language set for the device. so an individual speaks their device picks it up sends out the signal with its translation then its picked up by the listeners device and translated for the listener. if the translator is operating independently it wouldnt work as well but would be good enough. this could still cause issues, depending on how the devices are set up.

[@nightrunnerxm393]

Indian: We call this place "Hidden Lake." Explorer: Why do you call it tha--SPLASH!! Indian: That's why. Later on... Indian: We call this place "Little Elk Meadow." Explorer: Why do you call it that? Indian: Because little elk like to stand in this meadow. Explorer: Ah. A little further down the path... Explorer: And what do you call this place? Indian: Big elk meadow. Explorer: Ah! Because big elk stand in this meadow? Indian: No. Because elk stand in this big fucking meadow! Translation issues may be universal, but they can also be hilarious. Oh, and all three locations are real places, too. Just for extra hilarity.

[@mowgli2071]

We solved the bunch of the translation task for French by using Canadian court documents. Canadian court documents have to be entered in both French and English including testimony transcripts. Over time you end up with a huge database. So translation software writers were able to just import a whole bunch of this into their programs. Presumably there will be other languages with similar shortcut stories. Native American code talkers, for instance.

[@markfergerson2145]

Okay, but legalese in any language is an extremely specialized dialect of that language with its own specialized definitions and often syntax which do not match the definitions and syntax in the mother language, and often contain terms taken from other languages as well as neologisms not used at all in the mother tongue. So unless you can f’ing Navajo legal documents representative of casual or ceremonial Navajo, that’s not going to work. The Code Talkers used colloquial Navajo plus some unusual terms they had to make up because Navajo had no cognates for the English terms that had to be translated. (Legal definitions in English speaking countries are often deliberately non congruent with those taught in English classes.)

[@braydoxastora5584]

4:20 in regards to translation systems with google translate. One can easily add the mostly likely idoms/metephors etc as an extension l. Similer to when you look for word definitions gives you multiple categories of information

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Oh sure, but that first requires the knowledge that they are idioms. Or of the existence of idioms.

[@braydoxastora5584]

@@SacredCowShipyards true

[@UrluckUR]

Heh, I just realised that the channel logo looks a cow with horns if you rotate it 180 degrees.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

It looks like a cow right-side up too, I'm told. Just look for the ears to the sides.

[@RvnKnight]

Deserts are arid (dry) ecosystems that receive fewer than 25 centimeters (10 inches) of precipitation a year. That's why Antarctica is considered a desert.

[@WillFredward7167]

Good thing I wasn’t drinking or brushing my teeth when you got to “hill hill hill hill” cuz I would have splattered the room

[@Bobby90]

That's become my main bone of contention with Lower Decks and what it does with Second Contact, which should be all about the extensive investigation and research of newly discovered cultures. Their job - and crews - should be more valued and important than exploration.

[@xxxlonewolf49]

Shaka, when the walls fell Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel Desert is defined by a lack of rainfall. Avon calling...BUY...OR ELSE

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

Do you wish to talk about your insurace extention?

[@xxxlonewolf49]

@@carloshenriquezimmer7543 Darkmok and Jalad when they burned the buidling of Shaka the salesman

[@simoncauxbarge]

Temba, his arms wide!

[@narvalin5905]

There is TOS episode where Spock and Kirk were being asulted by a gaseous entity. Spock attempts to mind meld with it, learning that it is indeed sentient. Kirk then uses his universal translator, built into his communicator, to communicate with it. When asked by the locals how that works when it has no speech, Kirk responds by telling them that the translator picks up brain wave patterns and translates it into the language it's programed to emulate. There is no need for physical speech so long as someone (a sentient being) intends to communicate with someone else.

[@moffjendob6796]

Which then means it should never fail... except, it also implies all brain wave patterns are the same... a human thinking "pink elephant" will have the exact same signals as a Klingon thinking "pink elephant." I don't think so. And, if that is the case anyway, that also means every time Worf or other Klingons curse, it should be translated into English. :P

[@BobMcBobJr]

@@moffjendob6796 Unless there is no english translation for that particular curse?

[@moffjendob6796]

@@BobMcBobJr Not even contextually? I mean, it seems to do fine with other idioms. Except when it doesn't for comedy. :P

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Makes ship-to-ship translation all kinds of questionable.

[@raybeauvais296]

I definitely read what you're saying.

[@williammagoffin9324]

I think that the 1 for 1 translation of words the Universal Translator does is really just step one of the whole process, in fact not even step one except in emergency situations. What the UT actually does is exchange linguacode (which I think was only mentioned in TMP). Linguacode has everything a language is starting from universal constants and ends with explanations of idioms. When the Enterprise encounters another ship they exchange linguacode and the ship's computer figures everything out so the crew can just talk to them. You don't notice this is happening in the background because the Enterprise has a computer core the size of an apartment building doing all the work (3 of them if you're talking about the Big D). Tamarian is difficult not because they only speak in idioms and metaphor, but because their linguacode is indecipherable. Maybe their computer storage is formatted in APFS while the Federation uses NTFS so none of the files are compatible. So the UT defaults to a literal 1 for 1 translation of what is being said.

[@CptJistuce]

The tamarians never moved from ReiserFS because it was memeable. "So what file format do you use? We can't read your isolinear crystals." "Reiser, his hands red!" "What?"

[@SacredCowShipyards]

See, that makes MASSIVE assumptions about linguistification, but that made the episodes cheaper, so... tradeoffs.

[@hughsmith7504]

I dont remembr the exact episodes, but i remembered that several times during first contact the comms officer was told to transmit thier translation matrix. So id assume that contains not just individual words, but also turns of phrase and the like so the computer can tell the differance. I also like the answer to why Picard can swear in Klingon or french is because he knows the password to the UT parental lockouts.

[@megalopath]

My Arakis! My desert desert!

[@FordThunderCougarFalconBird]

Dock Master, you should do a video on the HELLDIVERS 2 ships. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Destroyers, Pelicans, Eagles strike craft, and oOOOH YEAH can’t forget the indomitable HELL PODS. 😂 Anyway just a thought. 👍

[@SacredCowShipyards]

We bounced off the general idea of drop pods previously.

[@jasonmorello1374]

As far as languages running over the meanings of a place, as I would describe it, I believe Titicaca, Mississippi, Nile, have the same problems. Not to mention, some issues in greek and latin, arctic and anarctic, mean within the arc or curve, within the opposite curve. The best attempt at function Star trek idiom in my opinion, has to be the Rules of Acquisition, which contains not only short forms that are their own idioms, but stories referenced by number, and contradictory and supplementary ones. Tho we love things to clearly be described, greek and latin verbs became several loosely related nouns based of the base of cooking and food. Varieties of plain words compile and expand, much like modern german, but english will just get a term from the culture it is first found in, and add to itself. Basically, if language were to be an OS in strict terms, the blue screens would be constant.

[@Relkond]

On the gripping hand, translation tools are going to dominate languages to the point that their bad translations will become factual/official. To be clear: Language itself will shift as a result of translation tools.

[@Banedragon]

The only way I can see a mechanical universal translator working, or something like it, is if you don't have aliens at all, and have the loads and loads of species done thru trans-humanisum, as is seen the novel further beyond the threshold

[@merafirewing6591]

Sometimes there are blunt ways of communicating where it sometimes involved weapons, or a style of gunboat diplomacy and that particular kind of diplomacy has remained unchanged even in Star Trek.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Well, then you also run into the problems that kicked off the Earth-Minbari War.

[@Vaporfry]

THERES A RUMBLE IN THE BOX

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

funny thing... "Yama" whilst it means "mountain" does not mean "Mount"... the phonetic for that would be "San"... so no sane Japanese would EVER say Fujiyama... that would be Fujisan... saying Fujiyama is sort of saying Kentucky Fried Hen... just weird always wondered why and how it could happen that this became the international name.

[@garrygriggs1888]

Wait for it, in England we actually have a hill hill hill hill.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

"Wait for it," indeed.

[@CptJistuce]

Tom Scott, his finger thrusting.

[@kentlindal5422]

I liked the trek episodes where they acknowledged the limitations of their technology. For example the translator could only work on known languages and even then, struggled with context. For example "Shaka, when the walls fell."

[@MoraFermi]

Counter example: the Calculator from the Stanislaw Lem’s “Eden”. It can be taught languages and then translate what it can reasonably understand. Or it can be switched to stochastic mode and spew cryptic, prophetic nonsense to be unpicked by the crew.

[@jtfbreedlove]

I may be wrong but you could apply the term desert to a large stretch of an ocean with no life in it, not that I'd imagine there'd not be many of those.

[@randlebrowne2048]

That's using the word "desert" in a more metaphorical sense. The literal meaning of desert is a place that gets very little (or no) precipitation (either rain or snow) in a year. Oceanic "deserts" use the related concept of places that get little rain having much less in the way of life, and hijack/adapt the phrase.

[@catgath9718]

Rig the algorithm!

[@phluphie]

🎶Pico and Sepulveda Pico and Sepulveda 🎶

[@Tomyironmane]

I'd like to object, but we named our planet Dirt, so this is neither new, nor uncommon.

[@renegadeleader1]

Ba weep granna weep ninny bong!

[@daral9217]

Ba weep grana weep ninny bong!

[@logicplague]

I understood that reference.

[@HBHaga]

I sincerely hope that you brought enough energon goodies for the entire class.

[@CptJistuce]

Kup, his hand extended!

[@renegadeleader1]

@@CptJistuce Shaka when the Prime fell!

[@colmoe]

If you think linguistics is fun, please come to Israel! I spent many years living there, and there's so much hilarity to be hand with languages To give a few examples: -Tel Aviv. Literally, Spring Hill (or Spring Aritifical Mound). It's not named for a Biblical site, as that'd be Joppa. No, its named for T. Herzl's Altneuland. However, if you never read that book, which was only popular in a single decade, you might think Tel Aviv was a hill of spring. -Ramat Gan. "Highgarden(s)". There are no gardens (there were once farms, when it was a moshav). It is not a height or hill. -Beni Brak. "The Sons of Barak." It was not founded by anyone named Barak. Barak also means Thunder, and no, it was not founded by any sons of thunder either. Barak might have been an ancient leader from the Tribe of Dan. Har Megiddo - Crowded Hill. Famously known by a different name, the Greek one, Armaggedon. Yes, that Armaggedon.

[@randlebrowne2048]

The valley plain at the base of that hill (thanks to being a major crossroad) has likely seen more major battles than any other single location on Earth!

[@nonpartisangunowner4524]

Not as confusing as "CAC card."

[@hughsmith7504]

Or PMC cards

[@Jcewazhere]

I touch the fire and it freezes me. Discovery had many low points, but I did like the translation issues in that one season with the miners from beyond the rim. It's more often than not the intent that matters in speech, not the specific words used. An inarticulate scream may carry far more meaning and emotion than simply speaking about [insert trauma here]. Same with insults. Being too worried about specific words being bad while others are good can retard the flow of a conversation. Philosophy Tube has an older episode where she used the example 'today is Wednesday" that was fun to listen to.

[@danielrhouck]

2 comments: 1. Why would a universal translator have to be squishy? You were able to convey all of that just fine. 2. I honestly have heard the “pink elephant” example so much I actually donʼt think of a pink elephant when itʼs brought up, any more than I think of literal running with “given the runaround”. It has become an idiom itself.

[@mowgli2071]

You could call the Gobi desert the "go, be" desert

[@rodneykelly8768]

I can't believe that no one else found that funny.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Har. Har.

[@ace_ofchaos9292]

I LOVE CHIE TEA! I also love the CWIS system. The biggest problem with the English language in my opinion is that it’s the open source of languages. Tell me I’m wrong.

[@Coldwater-sw6me]

The Babel fish is probably one of the biggest idontgiveashits in the history of writing.

[@shawn6860]

2.6 people in Australia. that is good Kangaroo's and Dingo's like Sci-Fi.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Don't forget the emus. After all, they won.

[@SkylerLinux]

So yes there is idioms, but you can also translate them. Esp. if you already have a "universal" language, even if it's only "spoken" by the Translators (The translation ML)

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Only if you understand the language to begin with. Or if you know that they're idioms. Or if you have a concept of idioms.

[@judgedrift]

No hay pedo. Literally means there is no fart in Spanish. Actual meaning, no problem.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

I... uh... huh.

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

Crazy to think that Google Translator CAN ACTUALLY TRANSLATE IDIOMS... at least from English to Brazilian Portuguese, and not rigth 100% of the time. But more ofthen than not it is rigth. To be fair, it is impressive. I can barelly translate idioms from other Brazilian states, mostly because we use local words. OH, yeah, we have 27 states, and 39 words for some things...

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Thing is not only did Google Translate know about idioms, but they could be sideloaded. Imagine a species that had no concept of the notion.

[@stewm1267]

Cerritos proud!!!

[@john-Ro]

none of those even the babel fish explain why the lip movement's match word's they did not speak even if the meaning's match up.

[@reecewestmoreland6137]

So betazoids are walking talking translators, deploy luxanna troi

[@SacredCowShipyards]

She'd enjoy that.

[@spectreandromedus8661]

I think the problem is how we teach culture. We can't make an adaptive translator unless we fully understand the nuances of culture like idioms. Hell, we're not even to the point that the idea of each culture having equal value is a universally accepted thing. Much less to standardize a method of understanding. The programs won't teach themselves culture. Look what happened with whomever's experiment with "ai" that the internet turned into a Nazi. But that's another story for another time that goes into Electric Sheep territory. Empathy has allot to do with understanding culture. Culture and language are mutually supporting. Can't have one without the other. So unless we can get past the empathy and equality hurdle, we will not likely ever understand language as a whole enough to have a uni-translator machine.

[@boobah5643]

"Hell, we're not even to the point that the idea of each culture having equal value is a universally accepted thing." And it never will be. Cultures that do things like enslave people because of skin color, that cripple people (in a literal or figurative sense) because of their sex, that murder people because they disagree with its elites (even if they believe it's necessary to make the sun rise;) these cultures all have less value.

[@neiljohnstone8240]

Tautologically (?) The Cumbrian "Torpenhow Hiil" would mean hillhillhillhill.

[@neiljohnstone8240]

Bugger. Well played Dockmaster.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Heh.