That Pedal Show: 6 golden rules about Gain @ Guitar Summit Web Camp 2020

Dan & Mick von That Pedal Show sprechen über Gain-Stacking und darüber, wie wichtig Gain-Kontrolle für den Ton ist. Dazu gibt es natürlich viele Sound-Beispiele mit verschiedenen Pedalen!
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Dan & Mick from That Pedal Show talk about gain stacking and how important gain control is to the sound. And of course there are many sound examples with different pedals!

[@Umbinator]

1 - Great episode of some quick tips for getting something out of these pedals all of us keep buying. 2 - Great facial fuzz, boys.

[@goldmole1]

Why so little viewers, it's Mick and Dan. And it's an important subject as well !

[@snazzyarchitect]

Learnt a bit, validated a lot of stuff I'm doing, you guys rock as usual....

[@scottm3775]

Just awesome 👏. Learning so much from Dan and Mick. Thanks huge 🙏

[@RobFlaxMusic]

Oh very clever! That boost buffer for cleanup trick is immediately going into use.

[@carlhansen4837]

Thanks guys!

[@thatsthegig]

Very clear, concrete and insightful video, well done!

[@TheFeelButton]

Good stuff Dan and Mick!

[@johnfritzenjr.1240]

The best episode ever!

[@brianelza9807]

Much better than the music camp I went to back in the early 90's!

[@ofircarmi]

Thank you for that!

[@icurt06]

I haven't listened to you channel in quite awhile. Mick's playing has matured. I find it interesting how a great tone makes me play better. Lots of useful information.

[@angryxjx4856]

Awesome vid....great work guys.....keep the content coming.🤘

[@Booze4Blues]

Enjoyable, even though lockdown, and useful for many . . Especially the use of the boost after all others 🤘🏻 Thanks for pumping the boost 👌🏻

[@rogeralleyne9257]

Great video lesson 👍👍👍 Very scholastic!!!🙏🙏🙏

[@michaelcarey9359]

Now that we know the rules, it's time to break some!

[@HenriksenDolf]

Matts knobturningmethod helped me a lot!

[@less_concerned1221]

Great video! Thanks for giving these great tips on dialing in pedals. I know I personally get into the bad habit of leaving pedals and amps in the same settings instead of really listening each time and tweaking.

[@poornoodle9851]

Dan and Mick go stealth on KZbin!🤪🎸

[@MrPerfectfeet]

Very informative gents, I struggled to find a OD pedal to use with my Marshall jvm410h js model, after trying many pedals , I found using the Boss eq-200, ended my search. Adding mids taking the bass down and boosting the volume slightly worked really well. Thanks for your videos 👍👍

[@hoboroadie]

This is an outstanding episode of That Pedal Show. Guitar Summit should have more subscribers, then more will get to see it. 👏

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thank you! Once GS have had a reasonable shot at it, we might put it out on TPS. Cheers!

[@G-NutZ]

Social distancing is gay but you guys still rock

[@rockkevinrock]

Mick looks nice with a beard and glasses. Kinda fits his style a bit better than he used to be.

[@CraigRMerriman]

Fantastic stuff. Thanks gents!

[@jonathanfoushee13]

Love the tones from the Soldano. What speakers are in that Marshall cab?

[@TheVigilantStewards]

I always wondered how to get soft breakup that is juicy but with the glorious overtones of more overdriven sounds, and thanks to TPS I have found fuzz with volume rolled back helps really well with some delay or reverb... and also the Harmonious Monk is really a glorious thing so modulation can play a big roll in that. I don't like hard obvious distortion, but very soft subtle malleable tube character yet while still having the tremendous added content.... at least for my distortion sound because I play a lot of clean. If anyone has any comments on this I would love to hear them

[@grahamkelly8299]

Micks les paul into the duellist set to the marshall tone, mann killer!!

[@fullmetalsal]

We need a demo of that SLO30. Best amp I’ve ever played.

[@timothyhingham3672]

More gain keeps sounding better and better until a little bit more sounds horrible. So I turn the gain up until it starts to sound bad when I really dig in, then I turn on a compressor set for limiting only, then bring down the threshold until it sounds great even when I dig in. That is the perfect amount of gain. BTW thank you Mick for showing the holy guitar trinity of a les paul a soldano and power chords. Soldanos do really love overdrives with the mid push. Full range overdrives not so much.

[@danieltravis5082]

Mick sounds sooooo good with the SLO. That's probably my personal taste, but my god.

[@leanderreininghaus8053]

I would like to know what brand those cool pedal (-board) cases are which both of you have in different colours. Thanks!

[@NINEWALKING]

@Mick please try that TM Les Paul into your clone into that cranked Soldano. I bet it is going to sound epic. @Dan is that Ascent using your footswitch? Looks like it from here.

[@jackgreenwood1817]

Mick's tip about buffers retaining clarity with the guitar's volume rolled off is really interesting. I tried a treble-bleed once, and while it did work with clean sounds, it had weird side effects with OD and distortion so I cut it out again. Since then I've been using a TI boost, always on, and the volume control behaves just as I need now, and the buffer must be why! Thanks guys

[@ThatPedalShow]

Awesome, cheers Jack. A few people have shown me this working brilliantly, including my friend Aynsley Lister. There's a vlog upcoming soon where he talks about it. Thanks for watching!

[@basvredeling]

I've got a PRS NF3 with a treble bleed circuit. The NF pickups are narrow humbucking with a lot of presence. They never sound quite right with my fuzzes and volume on 10. It's slightly beter with it on 9,5. But there's just something off in the gain structure. It's not as apparent as a buffer in front of a Muff or FF, it's more subtle than that. So maybe I'm experiencing the same thing you are. I'd be curious to know what kind of side effects you were talking about.

[@jackgreenwood1817]

@@basvredeling with the treble bleed in the circuit, ODs & fuzz etc wouldn't clean up the same. As the volume control was turned down, it was only turning down the mids and bass frequencies, and so the treble frequencies remained at more or less full level. This works well for clean sounds as it keeps that clarity, but with gain the high frequencies remain distorted and so it is cutting the mid and bass frequencies, just leaving piercingly loud distorted treble tones behind. This was my experience with the treble bleed, and it was on a Fender Jaguar (American Original), so it probably varies quite a lot from your issue.

[@basvredeling]

@@jackgreenwood1817 thanks... makes sense

[@stevekirby7333]

I'm thinking back to the TPS episode with Matt Schofield and the low gain Mad Professor Royal Blue OD and how he used it for cleaner cleans. Always on delay or reverbs can help also.

[@jackgreenwood1817]

OH YES! I love Dan playing a cranked RAT!

[@mrblablablabla]

I'm pretty sure at least Mick would agree that this is a very long winded way of saying "set all the controls to two o' clock"

[@jeromekendall9803]

i guess im asking the wrong place but does any of you know of a trick to get back into an instagram account? I stupidly forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me.

[@marcellusnoel1259]

@Jerome Kendall Instablaster ;)

[@rangerdoc1029]

Rule 1: gain and distortion are not the same thing Rule 2: you need a lot less of it than you think. Rule 3: don't scoop the mids

[@lescouse]

What would Entombed say?

[@the_nondrive_side]

I pretty much only use a parallel humbucker into a fuzz face into a pair of solid state amps one has a 3rd channel that switches in phase again. FX loop wet 212.. I actually never touch my tone pot unless playing with oscillations I'm pretty good with less pedals. Idk why I watch this anymore. Compression pedals that have a blend pot.. Need an FX loop run in there instead so you can add a dirt pedal. Pulp N Peel V5 we can say. Fuzz Face is the best

[@michaelpayne8337]

The Rat. Great pedal to demonstrate that guitar character coming through the distortion. Tommy Keene tone.

[@BOBANDVEG]

Donner has a couple inexpensive versions: the dark mouse, the giant mouse......they're pretty darn good

[@nethbt]

Gain always fools the ear , most great Rock lead tones were recorded using very minimal gain

[@hybridnoisebloom]

My big stumbling block is setting a clean fundamental tone. I spend so little time actually playing clean that it's hard for me to hear the variation when I turn the controls--it all seems to sound the same to me, so I tend to set my amp 'knob neutral.' It works out, generally, but I'm not getting the most out of my amp settings. Without that fundamental clean tone, I will not get the most out of my pedals. I need to spend more time listening to the clean side.

[@reubenacciano]

When you have a Soldano, you don't need boost pedals... they stay dynamic as you wind your guitar volume down, too. I can do rhythm, lead and clean on one channel with a well set up Ernie Ball MVP (has min level and gain knobs).

[@mpelgudmir]

But, do you account for the backwards Filter control on a Rat by setting it at... 10 AM ?

[@RussianColluder]

Mick got the cool room to social distance in.

[@lexzbuddy]

I had a Rat pedal back in the 90s. I didn't like it at all. Played it into a boogie and a Marshall jcm900. I just didn't like it. I've tried them since then and still don't like them at all. For me, there are much better options. To be honest, I prefer American amps and find Marshall's a bit harsh but not in a good way. So not a fan of the British sound. I now run a Rivera K-tre for high gain. It has all the gain I will ever need and doesn't need a pedal to sound great. I just use my volume knob for some easy dynamics but that's it. I run 2 amps, a Princeton for clean and my Rivera for everything else. I have a EHX fuzz but that's the only time I don't use the natural gain of the amp. I have a tube screamer but I never use it. I have a wha but I don't really use it much. I've tried boosts and they aren't my cup of tea. I've tried treble boost, tone benders and all that but I'm pretty much done with all of that since I got the Rivera. Most of my effect, at least the ones for gain are now largely redundant. Fuzz is different but that's a totally different kettle of fish :) I do use some delay, chorus, and a rotary by EHX (lester G thing). The amps have spring reverb so that's about it covered for me. Nothing to do with gain but useful to mention in a general sense. My view on this is to just find an amp that does what you want. Don't just look at the "popular" options, shop around. I have owned and tried loads of amps and pedals over the years and was never satisfied with any of the combinations. In the end, I just went looking for an amp that did what I wanted and sounded the way I wanted and had the right feel/response without any extra gizmos. That ultimately worked out for me. I don't think that is the answer for everyone but perhaps it is useful for a few others. Everyone is different, try lots of amps, maybe you too can find one that really does it for you as is and you won't need anything else. Good luck :)

[@JimmyDevere]

Mick you demonstrated a similar effect of volume rolled down and retaining the clarity with the fuzz video, specifically the Dunlop JH fuzz. Since there is no buffer a d the impedance is different vs. other pedals, what is the “scientific” explanation?

[@kevinvandenberg5548]

Every pedal is a buffer. So here he demonstrated a boost instead of a fuzz... but the same principle applies. A pedal turned on with the guitar volume turned down adds a buffer and some clarity (note definition).

[@glasgowguitarist3636]

So the message is “just buy a Soldano and save spending money on an OD pedal” 😆 That amp just sounds mega on its own and gets wasted by adding pedals. I suppose “that amp without pedals show” doesn’t have the same ring to it though 🤣

[@thunderrosa2258]

The problem with people who don't like treble bleeds is that a lot of the time they have only tried one type, you need to try a bunch of different configurations and values to find what works in your rig 👍

[@stanislavmigra]

Applies to many many different issues in guitar world (and life in general)

[@VintageRadius]

Or to say differently, there is more than one type of treble bleed. Some do allow treble roll off, just more gradually. It’s actually a useful comment and I’m sure not everyone knows that.

[@crankshaft383]

Great video. Follow the rules. Except locking yourself inside. Let's not do that one again. EVER... 👍

[@davemarshall9153]

What close mic's are you using?

[@jkdbobby]

Sontronics Delta 2 ribbon is what they usually mic cabs with.

[@SlinkyT82]

You're a wizard Mick! #mickpotter #hogwartsoftone

[@NINEWALKING]

Powered by DM drive :)

[@baoboumusic]

Awesome, or maybe I should say "hervorragend!" Subscribed, this is great content.

[@matthewpollard2843]

For those who have tons of money to buy this gear, not for the average gigging musician...

[@baoboumusic]

@@matthewpollard2843 Well first of all, if you are that average gigging musician, then I feel your pain because 2020 can't have been easy. And I assume that if you have 20 years of experience, this probably isn't your video. But for a n00b like me, whether I'm going to buy anything or not, this is really interesting stuff, even if I end up with a $39 Chinese klon clone.

[@markferguson3745]

The experiments with buffer placement have been an ongoing issue of mine ,- it is startling , the differences they can make; sometimes " Okay, okay..", and others, - " Uh, ~, NO".

[@crankshaft383]

Some people become very offended when it comes to tone advice. You need to watch your tone. My wife refuses to comply. We're still social distancing...

[@ramseyjansen]

Bear with me, I still struggle to fathom the term 'taking pedals well'. I don't think any amp doesn't take pedals at all, or just for a bit. Why would any amp 'not take pedals well' at all? Basically, every amp has the same setup, be it tube or solid state based, or even digital. You have a preamp stage and a power amp stage, some have a section for modulation and reverb (if applicable). Some amp types don't have controls in either of the stages, some have a myriad of controls, for gain, tone, volume, modulation, reverb, etc. Input signal is a current at a certain voltage, requires a certain impedance, and thus introduces a signal into the preamp section, to which this reacts by amplifying. The character of the input signal is the key to whether the amp is going to 'take >> the signal

[@michaelcarey9359]

Depending on the amp, as the input signal gets bigger it reduces the gain, creating gain compression. Like the "bad sounds" some delays and such can do when the repeats start to "mess with each other". And no, I'm not even going to try to change your mind or argue, you'll believe what you want to, and never try to learn different. Between religion, politics and coffee roasting, we all know that's true.

[@coldacre]

there are plenty of amps that dont take CERTAIN overdrive pedals well. a Vox AC30 with its natural mid range already at the fore, does not take a tubescreamer well. the pedal pushes more mids and cuts bass, which is already on the lean side with a Vox. the tubescreamer pushes the amp too far in the direction that it already is. a BD-2 on the other hand, sounds magic with an AC30 as the way the amp and pedal are EQ'd, compliment each other.

[@HectorGF17]

no soy de querer mucho, pero cómo os quiero a vosotros dos

[@danny82oh]

OK

[@col145]

Bin the pedals 🙃

[@rangerdoc1029]

But "That Pedal-less Show" just doesn't sell very well, now does it.

[@col145]

@@rangerdoc1029 I didn’t say bin the title of the show. Did I ?. Those lovely amps sound great without the pedals, now don’t they ?

[@keithyoung4358]

Yeah , I have all those amps

[@TNNLZ]

Great - Thanks!!! I think you answered a lingering question that it’s “generally” good to run into the gainiest pedal first when gain staging? Great tips - Love the show. Hope you make more of the Limited style D & M Drives.

[@markferguson3745]

Yeah, rare exceptions, - Fuzz/ Distortion/ Drive/ Boost,- but with the buffer in the middle, after the Boost, - or closer to the end? I've recently gone out of the box, and starting putting some verbs and modulations before the Drive section, which creates further havoc. At some point, it will stop being fun.

[@TNNLZ]

@@markferguson3745 Thanks for your reply! Good to affirm those guidelines on the Gain Staging! Setting up a new board and so far it’s Distortion + / Tube Driver / Tumnus. EP Booster on the way. Also have some delay/reverb ahead of the Gain Set for some mayhem!

[@saturnskull1242]

1 golden rule: dime the gain knob up

[@stephenharrell6170]

The engager put some hair on it.

[@lemac3200]

Glasses and a beard and Mick looks completely different. Wouldn't have recognized him in an other context...

[@gerryjamesedwards1227]

You can't have seen him much since last Mowvember. lol

[@sweettoof9002]

The distortion control on a Rat is just for show. It’s always dimed

[@mrblablablabla]

Absolutely not the case. If you turn it down you can get pretty sweet light overdrive tones and even clean boost on some Rat type pedals.

[@TM-bf1qi]

"get the tone control in the right place" ... looking at my hendrix fuzz face... nevermind

[@christopherberry8519]

A bit patronising on the distortion reduction description - I guess you don't have that much experience with high gain. Metal guitarists don't take that kind of advice so easily - it's like asking someone to turn it down... The Heavy guitarist's explanation is... reduce distortion and/or add a high cut EQ and bass roll-off to help notes punch through. You will be 10x louder in the mix and not get lost in the kick drum and cymbals. Works even with the same massive gain settings. Distortion reduction combined with a pickup split can make dual tracked guitars sound MASSIVE

[@simonclarkeblues]

Dan here (2:00) is using with pedals the same technique that Matt Schofield uses to set his amp EQ on sweet spot. And yes people it works quite well for the sensitive ear. Those interested in the master's explanation can find it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZmkpaF6ir16orM. Cheers Dan & Mick and keep doing this nice job!

[@jw6588]

Every time I hear the phrase "social distancing" now in 2023, I wanna scream. Studies have shown it caused immense social harm and made little-to-no difference in terms of mitigating the pandemic. What a sad world.

[@markedwards7721]

Ultimately, I am not impressed by pedal-based distortion going into a clean, pedal-platform amp. David Gilmour does it, but notice, he uses tube gain pedals. It all comes down to buying a clean pedal-platform amp and then employing gain pedals to make it sound like a Marshall. And I've heard you guys say, that a low-gain pedal is often used as an always-on sound, and that this is the sound 90% of the time. I say, if you want a Marshall sound, get a Marshall! And if you want a Fender sound, get a Fender! And if you want both, get a feature-rich A/B box! With that setup you get the benefit of custom speaker selections. It seems like all this is done just so there can be just one PA input. This discussion is as old as dirt!

[@rangerdoc1029]

David Gilmour's tube pedal runs in starved plate mode, so it's really no better than a fuzz face. His secret is sheer volume & lots of cascaded low-gain stages. And his fingers being pure magic.

[@jumpingman8160]

#1 Golden Rule: If it's not ripping the skin off the faces of your audience, you need more Gain. #2 Golden Rule: If the Gain knob goes from 1 to 10, you need a new knob that goes to 11. #3 Golden Rule: stacking OD pedals is a no no. You need to stack High Gain Metal pedals into Fuzz pedals with Politically Incorrect names. 11 of each at least. #4 Golden Rule: make sure to play a bluesy pentatonic scale with all the feels, and "Smoke on the Water" for good measure. 🤘🤘🤘

[@kemikalsound902]

less than 10 min in...my observation is try using some 'common amps' and 'common pedals' instead of all this boutique stuff...for the average guitarists that watch this...Soldano, Two Rock, Tone King, the Dualist, Kingsley, Analogman, Hamstead...I'd say the 'average' guitarist is probably playing a Fender or Marshall, and using one of the more 'available' pedal brands out there...no offense to the rest of us that do purchase these brands, but this seems a primer for those guitarists that are learning their way around their gear. Otherwise, I always enjoy Mick and Dan!

[@rangerdoc1029]

The "Booteek" stuff is just tweaks of the commonly available circuits anyway. There's really only 3 or 4 basic overdrive/distortion circuits out there.

[@matthewpollard2843]

If you want a Tubescreeamer sound, why don't you just use a Tubescreamer and not a more expensive TS variant?

[@JE-western-rider]

This presentation would be greatly improved if more commonly available equipment was used.

[@jkdbobby]

It is about the application rather than specific gear. Most amps can be set clean to at least mild gain. The page is an overdrive so any overdrive pedal will be the same. The concepts work with any gear and actually that is the point. Inexperience players don’t usually sound better on expensive gear. Dan and Mick make it look easy because of their experience, in spite of the gear, not because of the gear. Just my opinion having played guitar for over 35 years in various groups with different bandmates. Cheers!

[@P46430]

I think when you run into someone in life, at the store, in line ups, etc and wonder, “where do these a#*@oles come from?”...they’re the ones that give thumbs down to Dan & Mick videos.

[@seamanjive]

And the Emperors new clothes look great... Turn amp up, turn guitar volume down until slight breakup, set guitar tone about 6. Adjust amp T/M/B to taste. Increase guitar volume for dirt, increase guitar tone for grit. That is all....er, maybe a TB pedal (thx HubcapJohn...)

[@KaninTuzi]

No

[@seamanjive]

@@KaninTuzi Pourquoi non?

[@johnkonstantine9115]

Rule 7= No telecaster.lol

[@stevesteve1965]

1st Rule, Gain is not volume.!

[@sutt5828]

Eat more ?

[@cazziebb1707]

Do you have to be such dorks?

[@samnewton5959]

Whew, with only 99.98% of surviving a Covid exposure it is good to see you not being reckless and taking any unnecessary chances. But you need to both be wearing masks to be completely compliant. Plus, more importantly, it is just so trendy!

[@surfarijeff7884]

Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation We Have Assumed Control, We Have Assumed Control...

[@matejkore]

is more shit blues rock yes? What happen if you a play a different style? I no like Soldano, have no money for Two rock. I dunno man how this music is works :(