Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander & UAD OX: What You Need To Know - That Pedal Show

[@phaedrus1117]

Most TPS exchange ever: Mick "You know what this needs, Dan..." Dan: "It needs a fuzz pedal"

[@Ilikeloud]

I used to have the Ox, now I have the TAE. The single biggest advantage of the TAE for me, which you didn’t mention, is the ability to footswitch in a volume boost using the onboard power amp when playing a cranked amp. Spent 20 years looking for this solution - previously relied on our soundguy, also tried two mics into the desk with one set hotter than the other and a footswitch to toggle between them, also a custom mic signal booster.... all to try and solve the issue of cranking an amp and then trying to get a vol boost for lead breaks etc. The TAE solves this.

[@hoboroadie]

I tend to do things the hard way, or as the professionals put it, "the wrong way", so I use a Fryette Power Load to tap a signal from a maxed little amp so I can boost it with a bigger slave. I don't play out live but it works for what I do. I have budgeted a volume pedal for that channel, so that sounds like maybe what you are doing there.

[@patrickrosington1174]

Couldn't you just throw a boost pedal in front of the amp?

[@johanaavit]

@@patrickrosington1174 That don't do much if the amp overdriving.. The result will be more overdrive and compression. Not more volume/louder.

[@daspacechoechechoz9028]

@@patrickrosington1174 per johnaavit's insight below, this would not work, other than a big fire breathing boost to tube compression. However! You could try to accomplish a boost w/ a clean boost/volume control between the amp top box line outs and a mixing board/alternate amp...bu...sorry I just vomited. Also, had to chat with myself about being insane and doing stupid cruel things to living things and gear for the sake of trying them, the possibly horrifying tone/feel destroying over driven frequency response, etc. In other words...don't. Get a TAE :)

[@koshomannheim]

I had bought a BadCat Unleash years ago to do just that special thing, but unfortunately it doesn‘t have speaker simulation.

[@jeffreyradick6486]

I've been hoping you'd cover this new Boss device, but I'm especially grateful for the way you cover it -- you're not adding what is merely another entry in the endless parade of new product reviews (which have their place and many are good). What you're giving us that I like is an education is how this gear works and how to use it to get good results and (most importantly) to find inspiration. Seeing and hearing you guys become inspired -- each in your different ways -- is more effective than any amount of explanation. (But your explanations are interesting and entertaining too.) Thanks guys!

[@nikdsh]

Just got home from work and put on some coffee. LOVE the Friday uploads!

[@mhb450]

I watched it all in three sessions, great review. Regarding effects, I disagree that the are useful in the studio, in that situation you already have lots of options. Where they are useful is when using an attenuator. Obviously the UAD has a vastly superior UI, Boss retains its UI style like their multi effects, which forces you into their ethos instead of adapting to yours. In my opinion, the Boss has the functionality, the UAD has the UI. Both are great. Boss is like a Unix computer, the Waza like an Apple product.

[@Atttuner]

i see no use case outside of a eq or interface preference that would prove the Boss is not easily the better unit. More tactile, more function, more useable in live settings as well as the studio. Boss have knocked this one out of the park. great show guys

[@silviosantapaola2825]

A lot of it comes down to the user interface. Also I just like the look of uad products and software. The thing ist brown with wood strips. Apealing to the people who miss the olden days.

[@silviosantapaola2825]

Also ease of use. I always sound great using the ox. It almost doesn't matter what settings I choose. I suspect the expander has more to offer, which means I have more possibillitys to fuck up.

[@johnvcougar]

Except the Ox just sounds better overall. IMHO, of course. I have both, though I have to admit I haven’t tried the updated firmware for the TAE. That’s next.

[@rileyioacura]

For me personally the fact that the tube amp expander effects can come through the real cab is a winner for me

[@phillipbates1355]

This is the second smashing episode in a row. You've raised the bar again. I've owned both units. I'd summarise the Waza for live and the UA for recording. The use of the reverb and fx's from the WAZA live into my cab is a big differentiator for me. Plus the fx loop means no more 4 cable method pain, I just stick the strymons over by my amp and midi (sorry Mick) switch them. And you get infinite control of your stage volume with the WAZA instead of the dreaded one notch is to loud and the other is to quiet scenario with a notched attenuator. Anyway, great job, again!

[@ThatPedalShow]

No apols required here! I have max respect for anybody who uses what works for them and what inspires them. You. Nice!

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

if I was only recording to a DAW, then would skip both and get a Fractal Axe FX III for easier studio work. For home and live use, the Boss Waza TAE is super awesome!

[@tungsoltube]

Great show. I've been using an OX with both a newer 20-watt Plexi SV20H and Matchless HC-30 live (direct to FOH) for months now. It did take me a bit to tweak a couple of those rigs to my liking, but now I play more than I ever thought I would. If anything, I've found myself pulling pedals off of my board, because the sweet spot with these rigs is with cranked power-amp valve distortion and a couple of post-amp studio grade effects. Turning up these amps without this type of gear is going to be a challenge for most folks. Well done UA and BOSS!

[@yrdbyrd_bjj]

87 dB on the name drop horn. Glad the dB meter is back #useful #authentic

[@jimhoman4415]

I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned it but the Fletcher Munson Curve is a "perceived" curve our ears think they hear. So when sounds are quieter our ears are more sensitive to the high mid frequencies and less sensitive to the high and low frequencies. So you don't need to adjust for it for the mic because in theory the frequency response is the same at the microphone at any volume, it's just your ears/brain is "perceiving" to have less lows and highs. Thanks for another great video.

[@calwells5612]

OK, so this is a few years later, but your comment is very correct. Mick's comments regarding the purpose of the different resonant frequency adjustments on the TAE drove me nuts. His changing those settings made no sense under the circumstances. He often misunderstands technical matters. It's OK that he's not a technical guy (we all have different strengths, weaknesses, talents, etc.), but sometimes he wanders off into territory he doesn't understand and ends up confusing folks.

[@TalleyWacker1000]

Thank you for taking the time, fantastic demos and explanations. The OX direct demos sounding absolutely incredible. I know the TAE is probably the one I should get (for features) but man that OX is incredible.

[@billphillipstube]

This is a complicated topic and y'all did well presenting it in an understandable way. Your mic'd cabs sounded better to me than the full emulations. Be proud of that. To my ear, the emulations all have evident stereo digital reverb mixed in and it doesn't sound as natural to me. I think that this is what Dan meant by "high-end produced." Still, these products are tempting me to go direct. Occasionally, my cab gets so badly mic'd, I would have been better off with a cheapo computer plugin. The dilemma: "inconsistent natural" or "consistent unnatural"? Kudos to Universal Audio and Boss for getting you involved in their product launches. Recording studio time and a trip to Japan? How cool is that? That's living the life, that is!

[@XChristianNoirX]

Consistent mic'ing is def an issue.

[@phillamoore157]

That strat with that Marshall is absolutely STUPID beautiful. That tone right there was God’s chosen tone. And, the riff was the perfect riff to play through it. WOW. Very well done.

[@guitarnoodles7576]

I know the video was about the OX and Boss but I loved your pedalboard set up. That’s a great selection of some of my favorite pedals

[@georgespiggot8502]

XLR supports powered equipment. TRS doesn't. Also XLR grounds first through the outer shell then the signal on the inner connections. TRS doesn't ground until the signal has made a huge popping noise with the tip getting pushed past the ground connections on the socket and then the sleeve can connect to ground.

[@rudiger1337]

I have had the Boss Extender for 2 weeks now.? Expensive but so awesome

[@gordoncole2242]

When Dan says things like “it’s how we do” it confirms for me that he is the hippest bloke on the planet and will never age. I’m American and that’s the first time I’ve typed or said bloke.

[@ralvknights]

When Dan raises both his hands upwards and shakes his head without muttering a word, we know he is mesmerized and thrill with the tone and overtones he is getting. Inspiring show as always.

[@mattgilbert7347]

Bloke, you'll have to come to Oz and we'll bloke you out to experience the blokelife. It's a lot of bloke, bloke.

[@LordBransty]

Welcome to bloke world my American friend. Come on in, the water's lovely.

[@rileyioacura]

The matchless with the tae sounds amazing

[@tompoynton]

Get Rabea AND Ola on for the high gain show!

[@guitarsimon1]

Yes! Sack Frazer so you can fly/chauffeur them over and cover their expens...I’m kidding!! Love you Frazer, you’ve already brought muchos improvements and joy to the show!

[@ralvknights]

I agree on Rabea, the other player Ola sounds very similar in all his videos, he saturates his tone beyond return, still I respect your suggestion and support it. Another player that gets big high gain tones is Adam Dutkiewicz since he is a sound engineer for his bands and many others. So Studio Sound engineers could also be an option.

[@donloder1]

@@ralvknights that's the point with high gain demos. Then again I'd recommend Leon Todd.

[@gcvrsa]

Two really just brilliant pieces of gear. About 15 years ago, I'd got it into my head that what I needed was a three-stage amp rig, using tube amps into attenuators, then digital effects, and then a final amp stage. I ended up buying a THD Hot Plate and two Groove Tubes Speaker Emulator II units. I found that for live playing, the Hot Plate was the better choice, and it sounded great down to about -12 dB, but for recording and re-amping, the SEII was much better, because it had a full EQ section acting on the direct out sound. The OX and the TAE are so far beyond what I could have imagined in 2004. Thank you so much for doing this show! (These days, I'm getting all my gain sounds from my pedalboard, and running my board into the front of my tube amps. It works brilliantly, as well.)

[@jcwear89]

Sounds amazing this week, all of the tones live and direct, best TPS has ever sounded to be honest. 👍

[@DrivingDunkShot]

Ox works on iPad ,Mac And PC. It was updated for use on windows a couple of months ago. UA have confirmed there is an update with additional cab models and features coming soon. For me the attenuation side of the Boss works better even though it always goes though DA conversion to your cab. And the OX has the better D.I side of things with the quality of the cab/ mic models and outboard effects.

[@alessandroardolino5867]

when/where did they confirmed this? what features? what cabs?

[@DrivingDunkShot]

On the UA forums last week. No real details about the update but they did confirm there is definitely updates on the way.

[@alessandroardolino5867]

Daniel Jeffries I’m following that thread and there’s no mention/promise about anything in particular. Just that the OX will receive updates sooner or later

[@KozmykJ]

I wondered whether the path to the TAE's power stage was direct or converted. Is there not a Direct Attenuator Only mode if you did not need the FX added?

[@stevefarrell7632]

Alessandro Ardolino there is a Sweetwater demo with a UA employee showing the upgrades additional cabs including the V30. For me I’m liking the OX for recording. Awesome reverb delay compressor and EQ and cabs and mics and mic placements. My pedals cover my needs for effects live.and hands down no contest as far as the interface. I much the iPad interface. Both great devices. Great demo.thanks guys

[@gentGTR]

Boss WTAE owner and lover here. Loading custom IRs is a big plus for me as I gravitate towards unusual cabs.

[@lance134679]

Thank you for the demo. You guys manage to do something unique in a sea of demos of these units. I'd probably lean more toward the TAE since it has some great features for gigging, but for strictly recording, the Ox is the winner in my book.

[@northof50now]

Wow, until you went to the direct feed, I couldn't figure out all the hype over the OX. Clearly, it comes into its own running into an interface of some point. Yes. They absolutely do different things. Great show.

[@anssitahtinen9276]

We just watched the whole episode with my gf’s new kitten. She fell asleep with her head next to my phone’s screen while the episode was playing. You have a new fan 😻

[@planetxlr]

Aha! I love how that chorus just goes right in as if it was never gone.

[@Guitarslngr]

Thank you both. Excellent information! One area of failure was a detailed comparison of the built-in compressors. Everyone has delays/reverbs/modulations handy, but high-quality compression is not as readily available to the home/live user...(mostly). In addition at the end, it was kind of a cop-out to say, "Which should you buy? Well that depends on what you want to use them for..." Tell us, if YOU were using it in a home studio you would get X, if YOU were playing live you would get X, and so on...! These are expensive units, not a 100 Euro stomper that you could say well I don't really like that so I'll put it in the drawer... Once again thank you for what you presented. The sound quality and engineering were first-rate!

[@manuelbastian]

I know this is a show about pedals, but Dan: Your sound with the amp cranked was sooooo much better than it usually is through pedals... Damn! That‘s my cup of tea anyways...

[@mickhill6972]

Nice job Dan & Mick in the clarification & explanation between the two great units. You've time as been well spent in demystifying the differences and uses of the them in this video. Thank you both !

[@grega1207]

All hail the return of the legendary dB meter!!!

[@deathhockey19]

Oddly enough i like these kind of videos. I currently use a pair of Torpedo Captors as I run a dual Mono Wet/Wet rig with a Helix after the load boxes for effects. I'm very interested in the OX and TAE as the captors are an "Ok" load box and the Helix has "Ok" effects. Very tempted to swap out my 3U Helix rack with a pair of TAE as i believe they're 2U each (so 4U total). As all i use on the Helix is (after the load boxes): Limiter - To keep the Amps at the same level regardless what hits the front end, on all Four channel. Delay - Normally alternating with amp is wet or dry depending on what sound best for each channel. Reverb - ..... Nuff said. EQ - To cut out some frequencies depending on the channel (4khz from high gains tones for example). Boost - To lift up curtain for lead boosts. IR - To play quietly in the evenings or record. The TAE should cover all the aspects, then i've got the loops for any additional sounds.

[@Ullish1989]

So happy for the return of the db meter

[@IamMusicNerd]

This is a great explanation, and solidifies why I ended up going with the Captor X instead. I like the fact that the Ox lets you use the power amp from your amp, whereas the Boss doesn’t. However, I don’t like that the Ox is always attenuating, and there’s no off option. The Captor X allowed me to completely bypass the attenuation when I want to, but I can engage it when I need to, and I can still use the power amp section from my amp. It also has stereo XLR out, and you can load your 3rd party IR’s, which the ox does not allow. So the Captor X has the best of both worlds. The only reason I ever use the boss is if I need to add an effects loop to a vintage amp that does not have one.

[@ReiCow]

Now I see why you didn't answer my volume questions for VCQ - you were saving them for here! Thanks for the answers! Moo

[@WhoWouldWantThisName]

Yeah, see,,, you got a whole episode. :)

[@mattlynn6157]

It does my heart so much good to see you using something digital. I love analog as much as you and yes this is a great halfway point; but for those of us forced somewhat to the fully dark digital side it’s great to see you dancing some in that arena. Currently due to budget and a sound man/venue that pretty much prohibits amps on stage, digital is a way to go. I have been using bias amp and bias fx (via iOS)to design my amp and all the internal guts of the amp (to get the best tone) but also running that as an effect loop on an analog board. So I can get some of those analog sounds I love along with a great substitute for a real amp. Then if/when I’m able to plug into an amp... still can. Small setup, still lower $$$ price tag for everything but with a big wet/dry sound that is “similar” to a much higher price tag. But i get you guys are tailored more to the big time professionals and not the hobby level guitarist. Awesome show.

[@ThatPedalShow]

If it works it works Matt. And what you’re talking about is just as applicable to pros as it is hobbyists. The slightly more awkward point for us is that even though we’re dallying with it, neither of us would choose to use it unless in an extreme compromise situation. And that presents a number of problems. Speaking personally, one of the reasons I don’t play much any more is because you can’t play loud any more! And when the day comes that stages are silent and we have to be digital, that is honestly guitar done for me. This will sound weird but I really don’t enjoy playing the guitar that much. What I absolutely LOVE is the sonic experience of playing music and feeling it. Loud. Many sound engineers still get it - the human dynamic of people creating analogue sound together. But many many many more - and equal proportions of musicians - really don’t. It’s all good at the end of the day, whatever makes you happy. But come the digital smack down, I’m off racing motorcycles. :0)

[@andreadellasta3762]

@@ThatPedalShow Exactly! The sound is perceived before the music. The loudness of the sound is like the size of a painting: It's so important on final user experience.

[@mattlynn6157]

That Pedal Show Awesome response. I ironically get it. I’ve been struggling the last few years exactly like you describe with “blue”. I do think I need some tune ups, but I also think what you said also plays a part. I do miss the visceral “feel” of music vs the “sound”. You may have made me just realize I don’t enjoy playing either. Ha. Not sure if I’m happy or sad. Sad would be cheaper though. Thanks!

[@windmillcancersurvivor2568]

This is like choosing the red pill and entering the Matrix! Super Waza demo, seems to check all the boxes. I have the Lightning combo, having the same pre amp as the HC30, it is beastly loud. I love your amp Dan, you guys sound great!!

[@gowaitinthetruck7614]

This is the episode I have been waiting for! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[@philipbrister]

The Matchless HC30 is my desert island amp. It’s also my bedroom amp, because that is where I keep mine.

[@bseiler06]

Friday morning is my favorite part of the week. I learn something new EVERY episode.

[@pstratfink7984]

Beer, Pizza and TPS Friday night done Thanks boys

[@Tyler_Wilson]

I’m a simple man. I see that TPS uploads a video, I open, and I smash that ‘like’ button! 🤘🏻 Cheers, D&M

[@chrisdieter2322]

First time commenter, long time watcher :P Dan, Mick - in the video of the small wet/dry board, you mentioned you guys are in south of England (which means about zilch to my American sense of geography). If any fans are in the area, would you guys ever offer a tour of schwang-ri-la? On a side note, I am an UA Ox owner for over a year now, have had some great success with it, glad to see a head to head here.

[@stuartbowlerwell2845]

Well, that's two for two this week. Great shows, great info, great playing, great sounds. You lads just keep getting better. A couple for VCQs: 1. Any plans afoot for a That Pedal Show Live tour in various UK locations? 2. Please do VCQs with the headphones worn as per Dan's styling of the last 5 minutes of this vid 😁

[@scot-combs]

I've used the Atomic Ampli-Firebox for more than a year at the church gig. I'm using Celestion IRs (neo creamback w/all mics) and the Plexi model. It sounds really, really good. I use it the same way I would use a standard amp rig. In context with the band, I find it rather inspiring. I walk into church with one guitar and the pedalboard (a pedaltrain pro junior), plug in the mic send, plug in my guitar and we're off. When I listen back to the service online I'm always impressed with how good it sounds. Thanks again for doing this show, it has been an enormous source of information and inspiration. I'm sad you won't be coming to Minnesota any time soon, it would be lovely to talk with you again. We will miss all the guys at Riff City, they'd become friends.

[@patrickellington4116]

I love watching your show. You both are an inspiration to me and, I’m sure, to many others as well. Thank you for doing what you do.

[@davidmckendry5551]

Hope you guys do a real in-depth program on the boss , both units incredible as to what they achieve. Personally I’ve no idea what one I’d go for, I’m just starting out recording but I’m not achieving the sound I want through my valve amp because obviously it needs cranked to get it working. I really like both these units but cannot chose between them , help lol. Great show as always Dan & Mick. Cheers guys.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Hi David. No need to get any more in depth on the Boss - if you want that, please watch their official demo. Cheers!

[@davidmckendry5551]

Thanks guys will do cheers.

[@colaboytje]

As owner of the Boss TAE and having used the Ox, ... well I guess you know which one I prefer. The magic with the TAE is the multitude of reactive-loads. I use it with both my Two-Rocks, and it's a joy to be able to tweak the response (feeling) depending on which cabinet I use at that moment. The built-in effects aren't great, but they do the job if you just want to plug and play. But the great thing is that you can EQ the power output stage of the boss with the editor, so not only can you EQ your amp, but you can also EQ the output to the speakers. For now, I only use it as an attenuator so I can really make my Two-Rocks work in the zone without blowing my ear drums. I love it.

[@gatysm]

I also own 2 two rock (Bloomfield D and SP35) and I cannot choose between the OX and TAE. Don’t you feel any loss of tone by using the TAE when you are not attenuating the signal? Do you think the cab simulation are convincing compared to the TR cabs? Thx

[@colaboytje]

@@gatysm Those are 2 different questions, so I'll try to explain as how I understand the questions. Yes, there is a loss of tone unattenuated as the power amp section of the Boss is the power amp that eventually goes to your cabinet. However, you can tweak the EQ of the power amp of the Boss pretty extensively (you can choose to do it parametrically or with designated frequency sliders (like on a regular EQ device that doesn't have the option for parametric EQ)). I use the parametric EQ option so I can tweak in much more detail, but it takes more time. When I engage the EQ on the Boss, as you have dialed it in, the tone loss is small, although some harmonics might get lost. (I noticed that this happens with every attenuator I have tried, as the signal passes through the components of the device you are using, so it's never going to be a perfect tone match. In regard to your second question: it's not a cab simulation when you use it as attenuator. A cab simulation is when you go direct to your recording device, or headphones, or a mixing desk. Using a cab simulation through an actual guitar speaker cabinet, is like pushing the sound of a cabinet trough another cabinet. When you use it as an attenuator for your amp-cab rig, you use the actual Two-Rock cabinet, so the sound characteristics of your cabinet and speakers remain untouched. For me the benefits of the TAE as attenuator are the different, free to choose, reactive loads (= load curves), so that it feels natural and good to you. If it feels good, you'll play better. The other benefit is the really good power amp EQ for the Boss power amp, so you can tweak in great detail how you want it to sound (which is lacking in most power attenuators). I don't think there is a power attenuator at this moment that won't affect the tone. It's always a compromise. My advice would be: take your amp and cabinet to a shop where they have one or both, and try them extensively. For me personally, the Boss gives me what I wanted as attenuator.

[@gatysm]

colaboytje thanks a lot for the detailed answer. Sorry if I was not completely clear (I am not a native English speaker). My first question was regarding the change of tone when the TAE is in your signal path, even without attenuating the signal. According to what I understood it does modify the tone, at least slightly. And the second question was about the performances of the cab simulations of the TAE compared to the tone and feel of using the real two rock cab. Thx again for your inputs. I think I will go for the TAE, I also do not feel UA will come with any update in the near future for the OX

[@u182155]

Super video guys. I have actually owned the Ox and moved it on. Have recently got the Boss and love it. To me being able to both attenuate and amplify is the deal breaker for me. Should I ever find a really nice vintage Princeton, I will have more flexibility.

[@picnicpointopenmic572]

I have the TAE, and recently bought a new Princeton, the the Chris Stapleton model. Both work beautifully together. All the sound I need.

[@jegl1012]

Loved this video guys.... great job. One thing that is huge that you did not mention is that the BOSS unit is rack mountable. You may want to add some text about this. The OX is not as far as I can tell.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Good point

I have an OX and I’ve been very happy with it. I do wish it had an effects loop and that’s the nice part about the Boss but it does re-amp in order to provide that. Seems like that might be a good option for my 65 Twin but I’m curious, as I see the PS-2 lurking in the background, if you like the Tube power amp it has for re-amping vs the solid-state power amp of the Boss. PS-2 has both presence and resonance adjustments too if memory serves correctly.

[@TheHowardSinclair]

Loving the glasses on forehead look Mike, along with the headphones. Reminds me of Penfold from Danger Mouse for some reason!

[@jrchanning]

Fascinating episode, I much preferred the Boss unit, seemed more versatile, great playing as usual and those two amps just WOW !! 😃

[@gyugug]

For VQC’s - thanks for another superbly informative episode once again - you really can go down the rabbit hole with those FX/Speaker modelers!! Mick was lost for a second haha. Although the attenuated sound is really good and ADAC converters are improving all the time, in this case wouldn’t a Variac achieve the same results (at considerably less cost)? It’s well known that EVH, an incredible innovator in terms of gear and tone, stumbled on how to use a Variac with his mid70’s Super Lead when it was shipped from England at 220v. He then used it to replicate his legendary cranked tones live in the clubs, but at lower volumes (he took pity on the punters!!) and for recording the first few albums. He freely admits to having never used any gain pedals (he had a Univox and EP in his first live set up), in fact the Variac was the key to his great early tone (apart from his fingers of course!). Perhaps you guys could source one and check it out with the hi-watt etc? Might be interesting to experiment with the tones which could be created using the boards. Anyway, keep up the sterling work guys - great stuff 👍 from Tyrone in the Middle East

[@deanpaxton9197]

I would like to hear the matchless with the Fryette power station i see back there does it not also have eq options?

[@jeremiahmccann83]

In many of your videos you recommend EQ pedals as a use/solution to many things, but we seldom see EQ pedals used on famous player boards. Why do you think that is? Why aren’t EQ pedals on your boards? (Love the show, love the format, please never stop)

[@jeremiahmccann83]

Dan and Mick did a great job answering this question in their video “Mixing gain Pedals In Parallel For Ultimate Versatility” they both prefer to use gain pedals that have a shaped EQ. They use EQ pedals in other videos as proof of concept.

[@clint1009]

Great in-depth tour guys, clearly putting into perspective each unit's differences. Would love another 'Adventures With...' at Real World as an excuse to trial the Boss TAE. Plus a chance to hear some more original material from you both.... go on you know you want to! ;-) P.S. Dan - where's the Vlog at? Keen to get working on some of those chord adventures....

[@leonbarron368]

Great show as always! Would have been nice to have included the fryette ps2 but hard to do everything!

[@bigslott]

Yeah exactly. I wonder how the Boss and the power station compares as an attenuator/re-amp in a live situation?!

[@leonbarron368]

@@bigslott yeah exactly. I'm currently using a ps2 live. Would love to know which one reamps better

[@leonbarron368]

Too many 'yeah exactly's there 🤣

[@gordonhirst8199]

Hi guys, great show as always ! I'm just picking up on a couple of points you raised, one was the TRS cables required for the OX and the other was the potential for adding Latency. I'm surprised to hear that you are using the TRS outputs, since they are Analog LINE out signals, that I assume you then connect to your Apollo which then converts back to digital and into the DAW; if you then add the initial analog to digital conversion that the OX does first, that means you are doing 3 x A/D conversions in total which must have a latency as well as signal degradation impact. You should really use the S/PDIF digital output from the OX using an Optical TOSLINK cable to connect to the Apollo that way the signal remains digital and you only do a single A/D conversion; lower latency and better quality signal. Of course the down side is that the Optical TOSLINK cable is probably harder to find than a TRS cable !!!

[@ThatPedalShow]

There you go. Who the hell has a cable like that? But digital point taken. I think this is the last digital thing I’m doing. Mick here. Dan, we’re looking for a couple of new presenters. Or at least one. I’m done with this stuff!

[@gordonhirst8199]

@@ThatPedalShow Actually Mick, I have a cable like that ! or rather I have 2 cables (one for a spare) . $10 at Amazon ! I get your point about Digital, however I think the role we have in music today is to marry together Analog and Digital in the most inspiring and effective way we can. (Mostly analog of course). Sooner or later the signal must end up digital, after all we are watching this on KZbin !

[@jtmusicofficial3766]

Great show as always gents! Now that Dan has completed his pedalboard could you guys do an episode where Mick plays Dan's complete rig i.e. Mick plays Red through Dan's pedalboard and Dan's amps and Dan does the same with Blue and Mick's rig? It would be really interesting to see how differently you play each other's rig and what playing it inspires in you!

[@rdiazglez]

I think it's worth mentioning that the effects on the Boss unit do come out of the speaker cab, thanks to the reamping. It also has an fx loop

[@andrebrito3816]

Ricardo Díaz so the effects processed by the OX can’t be used when using only the cab?

[@edwardjons8684]

André Barradas Brito The Boss does a bunch of things the Ox doesnt.. Andertons did a good comparison a couple of weeks back

[@rdiazglez]

@@andrebrito3816 The effects won't come out of the cab, only through the emulated output

[@analognoir]

Matchless is the best! Good to hear finally see one on your show

[@RandyWillcox]

OX is now Windows compatible. Prior to that, it was iOS and also Mac OS. Great show, boys. The conclusions seem to be generally similar. Two different animals of similar species. I generally keep hearing OX is primo in the studio and Waza Expander is ideal live. But obviously, there will be situations where those scenarios are flipped. Also, OX doesn't have any Vintage 30s...STILL!!!! So if you are a Vintage 30 guy, the OX can give you lots of options, but still no Vintage 30s! 😩 Because of that, a lot of high gain and metal guys lean towards the Waza. In a perfect world you wouldn't need such a device. In an almost perfect world you would have both. I have the OX and LOVE it in my studio. I may add the Waza later. We'll see. But...Tim Pierce is loving his OX in his studio and, well, that's a hell of a nod. As with all gizmos, the "better" one is the one that's right for YOU! 🙌🏻 Thanks for the video, boys!

[@rjroth4869]

I'm guessing I'll never need either but the show was still very interesting. As to US retailer/distributors . . . do you know about Sweetwater in Indiana? It's a pretty amazing campus and operation. I'm pleased with the purchases and support I've received from them, just saying. Cheers.

[@dep1001]

Great vid, guys! Both great units. But no doubt the winner is the Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander! I would have to say that UA should really lower the price of the OX to stay competitive. When both units are in that price range, I would go for the Boss everytime! Cheers!

[@mwc6849]

Great episode. I like the interface better on the Ox and it may be better for recording, but the Boss is better for live and overall more feature rich. I am going to order the Boss.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Cool!

[@aftecbello6500]

I never heard it mentioned, that the OX cannot send any of the effects to the attenuated output, only the line outs. The TAE can. That's a major difference, that's why the signal is loaded down completely to be able to do the effects and in/outs, than feed it to the guitar cab via the built in poweramp. In the same manner, there is no Fx loop in the OX, meaning no outboard effects can be connected with the OX. The TAE can control amp functions with a TRS cable, by rig. There is a separate FOH out on the TAE for FOH feeds which is not affected by the line out knob, to provide a constant signal to FOH. Effect levels can be set separately for the Line out and guitar cab feeds, meaning there is a possibility to set up a W/D/W rig with an external power amp and cabs. Some FOH guys prefer to have a dry signal and effect in on the FOH board. That is possible too. The guitar cab signal and the FOH signal can be EQd differently, by rig. There is a level boost in the TAE so the solo volume increase is solved for live use with amps without a dual master. If someone does not have a Midi capable pedal switching system, there is a Boss footswitch, where most of the functions mentioned above can be switched by preset or by function in/out. There are some unused features on the OX, like the footswitch in, USB etc. Maybe further firmwares will enable them and can be used for something. The OX is Wifi only, it can be an issue on gigs in large venues.

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thanks for all this! The effects thing.... perhaps we should have made it more clear that the TAE is a reamping device and therefore it’s possible to add FX to the reamped signal. But as a straight attenuator the UA is all analogue and is not reamping therefore adding effects would require digital cobblers and a loop. We’re guilty of taking that entirely for granted when it’s maybe not obvious to everyone. I guess people looking for a device for their needs will check the spec list and decide if it does what they want. And then they have to decide whether it sounds good. Then comes the hard part!

[@aftecbello6500]

@@ThatPedalShow Thanks for the show guys, keep up the good work. I not ment this as a criticism, just wanted to share my finding , when I tried to shootout the 2 units It was quite a learning curve to dig deep into them and peel off the marketing mumbo jumbo. I loved the OX speaker simulations but hated, the Mac only approach, I guess they have some kind of an agreement with Apple, because most of their digital equipment besides the X series is Mac only for 12-24 month.They have already released the Win version. IMHO the Ox excels in vintage vibes and low gain situations, the TAE can do high gain with a smile. The TAE effects and speaker simulation are inferior to the UA, but the attenuation 3 and below utterly sucks in the OX. Horses for courses :) Ps. You can enable the automatic fletcher-munson curve adjustment in the TAE system menu, than you don't have to fiddle with the reactive load settings. ;)

[@michael_caz_nyc]

Mick has become So Good @ "Playing with Himself" - (ha,ha) - I Couldn't Resist . . . been Enjoying your Looped-Jams, Backing Tracks and Playing more & more lately. Cheers guys. You 2 are The Best !!!

[@tarallo2]

The Matchless sounds incredible. When/how did you get it Dan?

[@edwardjons8684]

I think they did a video on it a few months back... worth a look

[@ezm69]

Love you guys (in spite of all of the money you've cost me over the last few years..... or maybe because of it.....), and it was another great episode...... right up to the part where you reaffirmed that you haven't spent enough (any?) time with a Kemper to understand it. lol Keep in mind, I have a Kemper, and a Helix, and more tube amps and guitars than anyone truly needs (yes, you shoulder some of that blame), and a massive board complete with far more overdrives and fuzzes than necessary (absolutely your fault) and....... I use my board in front of the tube amps as well as the Kemper. I have exactly one pedal that doesn't seem to like the Kemper (at times, very dependent on which amp profile) and that is the Wampler Tumnus. Everything else is no more different that switching between two tube amps. Preamp pedals may be different (and I don't really use those) but for everything else, it is at worst rare in my experience to find a pedal the Kemper doesn't like. I run all of my dirt and most of my modulation in front. I run a Source Audio Nemisis and Ventis as well as Ventilator II in the loop and they all perform perfectly. It is fair to say that the amp in the room feel is more difficult with the Kemper. It's the nature of what it is and what it does. That said, I run mine into a Crown Class D power amp and duel JBL 1x12 cabs (the old JBL's circa ~1990) and get pretty close on that count. As far as the direct sound, the Kemper wins hands down going SPDIF into my Antelope Audio interface. The icing on the cake is when I turn off the Kemper IR's and use the Ownhammer Wall of Sound app for the IR's. I couldn't get a better sound if I miked one of my amps up and spent hours tweaking to get it perfect. I do use a ToneKing attenuator (great unit) often with the tube amps and for a simple gig, I would probably consider going that route, but the Kemper always wins if I won't be monitoring on stage. In that case I'll profile my own tube amp and use the Wall of Sound and quickly (5 minutes tops) have the sound I'm after. Now all of that said, the Kemper and the Helix (as well as the others) are very different animals (profiling versus modeling) and I tend not to use the Kemper built in FX (because of the wonderful pedals you helped talk me into 😂). I really think you guys need to spend some time with someone who really knows the Kemper inside and out. For recording or for a gig where you won't be monitoring on stage, it's superior to anything else I've tried. The Helix on the other hand, I love that for bass and it lets me do some things there that I couldn't do otherwise, but again, it's a different animal entirely. Keep up the great shows and for Gods sake never listen to the people who want you to talk less and "only do x"! This Patreon supporter loves the fact that you do change it up and you keep it fun!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Glad it works for you EZM! I had a Kemper and felt it was always a mile away from my real amps in the room. Totally agree on the recording thing and also for massive live production for that matter, where consistency is paramount. Also remember that I was a journalist for many many years and got sent //every// new kind of DM device out there. I had to engage critically with them and was free of any purchase justification bias. These things seem to work amazingly well for a lot of people. But here’s the thing, give me my Two Rock and something else wet/dry on the end of my favourite analogue pedals. Or a Helix or a Kemper. There is is just no choice to be made there. So until it’s as good sounding and feeling, I’m not going to spend any money on it. I’d rather buy something that I’m actually going to use. Mick here. Cheers!

[@ezm69]

@@ThatPedalShow no disagreement at all on the amp in the room thing (and I noted that), but then that wasn't where I was disagreeing with you either! lol 😊 Just saying, in the direct comparison between the OX or Boss unit through headphones, throw those pedals in front and the Kemper is great (for almost the same price) and does way more. True, it's not the right solution for everyone or every situation. I just wish I could throw up a couple of amps on stage the way you guys do (preferably with someone else carrying it all)! Basically, I need a roadie and better gear contacts! 😊 Always the right tool for the right job! Love my Kemper AND my tube amps!

[@ezm69]

@@ThatPedalShow I should add, it took me many months to figure out how to get the best out of the Kemper. A lot of the things we know as guitarist coming from tube amp land just isn't the same (and the quality of the profile plays a big part, the stock ones mostly suck). That's why I say some time with someone who's put in the time to figure it out, I do think you wouldn't think it was miles away. Still not quite there, but pretty close. That said, yea, you have the option to do wet/dry with tubes...... I'd still likely do that if I could as well, and I know how much you despise complexity! Not judging! lol 😊

[@ThatPedalShow]

You’ve said it all. You’ve echoed what every single pro player we know says about the Kemper. Given the free choice, they wouldn’t use it. But they have no choice, so they have to use it. I guess there are people out there who genuinely prefer it, but we haven’t met a player yet - whose tone we love - who chooses to use it over the real thing. So with respect to everyone, it’s not called That Budget Compromise Pedal Show. Every other channel on KZbin is about that (and in many cases their high numbers reflect it). Dan and I are about passion and zero compromise. For sure that’s not for everyone! If somebody gives us a Kemper we’ll use it (although not in a wet dry rig because of the damn latency!) but respectfully, we’re not buying one. :0)

[@ezm69]

That Pedal Show I wouldn’t exactly say given a choice I wouldn’t use it. Again, the right tool for the job at hand. 🤠 Sometimes it’s perfect and I prefer it to anything else, other times it’s not. Same as with a 100 watt Marshall stack. But then I wasn’t trying to get you to love the Kemper, or buy one, at all. It’s not your thing, I know that/knew that, and thats fine. I was simply responding to how you dismissed it as an alternative versus the Ox and Boss in a silent/headphone/direct to board scenario, and that your stated justification, that the Kemper doesn’t take pedals well, is simply not correct. Cheers guys and keep up the great content! 😁

[@tompoynton]

It you watch any Dead & Company videos (Bob Weir and John Mayer) there’s about 4 Ox’s on stage at any time. Also Mick that was your best “Shine On” yet!

[@ThatPedalShow]

Nice. Thanks Tom. I do it better live, but hey, this will do. :0)

[@hukl3945]

If you're in the market for Sennheiser MD421 - check reverb and ebay if you can find the black U4 series. The modern made ones vary quite a bit from unit to unit. Some seem to have no bass for example. The U4 series is highly regarded version of the MD421. I recently bought 2 great ones from reverb for half the price of a new version and they sound fantasmagorical :)

[@19markz67]

I love you guys, but after a full week of work and a Friday night you lost me at 17:07. I will try to come back to this another time. Keep going gentlemen and I will try to catch up..

[@SlackWi]

i've been playing 10 years and never had the opportunity to play a cranked tube amp at any volume louder than bedroom in a crowded apartment block levels. I really need to try this.

[@LordBransty]

That's what appeals to me. Great tones and no knocking from neighbours. Would love to hear one demoed somewhere.

[@k.a.rojayy6834]

Ooh! I can finally contribute! Used to work in screen printing, it obviously depends on the technique used but a lot of those bright neon colors (yellow, orange, pink/light reds) are a bit inconsistent depending on the environment and machines in a given day

[@45zapatero]

Would like to see a comparison between the boss and the fryette you mentioned in other videos.

[@johnballantyne3458]

“Any sign of MIDI? ... no ....it warms my heart, mate.” - Mick

[@patrickrosington1174]

That little thing mick played at 9:30ish was just beautiful. My God

[@ThatPedalShow]

Thanks!

[@TheBedroomRocker1]

Thanks for the very informative show and the deep look into these products. The apps and effects are nice extras, but for me the crucial thing is enabling the use of effect pedals and a tube amp for recording silently. I basically run my channel on a Torpedo Captor reactive load and my neighbors love it. Modeling is practical and may sound good, but like you said it does not interact with effects like tube amps do. How much solid state power does the Boss have? Gotta take care not to blow any speakers, specially with small combos or greenbacks

[@pastorkev777]

Most attenuated signals sound different on extremes, but feel and react different almost immediately. I have a crazy nice attenuator and depending on the amp and speaker combo, some combinations work way better than others.

[@XChristianNoirX]

At least with the Waza you can change the feel. The sound does change a bit too, but at least there is fletcher Munson curve protection and you can program an internal EQ if you need to get it closer. It's not perfect but helps. You have to lose somewhere to get that volume down though!

[@brianpatrick6102]

Warms my heart.. haha. Me too. I am a complete midiot. I am happy with my OX. Very much so. Thanks as always.

[@DavidWilliams-iq3eu]

Agree with Mick it seems odd to be re-amping your valve amp, especially with a solid state amp, but it did sound good. And what alternatives are there? As you pointed out, you cannot crank that head in anything other than a huge venue. If the Boss sounds better than attenuators such as the Ox, or the Fryette, or whatever other attenuators are around then it’s a good solution.

[@markslist1542]

Thank you so much for these videos. These videos are hugely helpful.

[@hyunil227]

Used to love and own these kind of gears, but now I am leaning more towards to old school miking... At home, I simply plug into my UAD Arrow and use the Unison amp-sims. They work quite well for home practices...

[@ThatPedalShow]

I would agree. Mick here. Still nothing sounds like a mic on a cab... a great cab mind you. But not everyone can do that, and I would say that these things are miles better than crappy mics on crappy cabs in crappy rooms - ie what a lot of non-recording people have access to. And then there’s volume of course. So interesting. Precious few people have the luxury of being able to have a loudish amp in a reasonable room with a nice mic and preamp. But that is undoubtedly the ‘best’ sound to my ears anyway. Mick here.

[@hyunil227]

@@ThatPedalShow I agree. I loved my Two Notes Torpedo Live when I didn't have access to a private studio ;) Now I do, and it's a pure joy to crank my 1987x with NOS Mullard tubes. (Of course, with a little help from a Fryette Power Station 2)

[@cjs4247]

@@ThatPedalShow Fender Vibro Champ? Now that's a hell of a practice amp! :D

[@ThatPedalShow]

Sexy time!

[@williamwagnon2809]

I would definitely consider contacting Sweetwater in Fort Wayne, Indiana. They are a class act that has a very long history of taking care of their customers. Every summer they have Gear Fest. Check with Andy Timmons. He's been there a few times.

[@klontart]

I recently got the Ox, I think it's brilliant. I didn't need the live oriented features of the Boss, but more importantly, I needed the two-mic feature of the Ox. I also love the Room simulation, and the powerful headphone output. The FX are great, but you need the app to tweak them. I think the Ox sounds better than the Two-Notes Studio that I also use. Can't say anything of the Boss.

[@moonshot1999]

Such a superior comparison review to the Andertons review of the OX/TAE, Top job guys, 2019 just before the world went to shit😎

[@torincarmichael]

Are we ever going to hear the Hiwatt cranked to overdrive through one of these attenuators, or would it still be too loud?

[@ThatPedalShow]

No, it would be fine!

[@mrfett]

@@ThatPedalShow make it so!

[@misteranderson59]

Do these work just as well with combo amps? I'd love to dial in the sweet spot on my Deluxe Reverb and be able to play at a bedroom level. Thanks again for all that you do. Your videos keep me inspired, and are the only reason that I'm able to tolerate washing the dishes every day ;) My wife couldn't be happier!!!

[@ZigbertD]

Yes it will. If your combo amp speaker is connected via a jack from the back of the amp, then you just unplug it and plug into the attenuator/load box (and then connect the out of the attenuator back to the combo speaker if you want). If it's hardwired, you'll have to cut/disconnect it and replace it with a cable with a jack coming from the amp, and a cable with a plug going to the speaker. Then you can connect the two to use the amp normally, or disconnect and connect each end to the in and out of the attenuator. I'd advise getting a service tech to do this unless you are certain you know what you're doing.

[@tonyevans9999]

I would be interested to see/hear the difference using a super simple attenuator vs these IR devices. I use one in my living room that I share with three old Australian tube amps of varying wattage and a rebuilt '64 Fender Pro with uniformly excellent results

[@ralvknights]

At 11.45 minutes till 12:00 the Marshall sounds nice on all frequencies and one can hear the Bass sounding quite good, then u engaged the loop pedal and the Bass frequency got wiped down also volume was reduced significantly. Regarding the Ox and the TAE, the TAE sounded way better In maintaining sound integrity. One question: Can both the OX and the TAE be used as volume atenuators in conjunction with any Amplifier power section still in use for live gigging?? Or are they both only for direct recordings? Both of you sounded spectacular at the beginning of this video, really it inspired to hear such great tones, you should make a compilation video at each year end showcasing your preferred sounds obtained. Live long and Prosper.

[@GazMoz78]

Dan channeling Stone Gossard this week, very Pearl jam. I like it! Think the boss is the far better live tool, even though you don't hear your amps power section, it just sounds better. The OX sounds far better in studio mode when the cab sound is out of the equation. Also re the Kemper/Helix etc.. they sound great, they don't feel the same at all. One word LATENCY. Great video guys :-)

[@song-mode]

best location for db meter yet! glad it's back.

[@LilleFjert]

The Boss TAE has features that would make it a logical choice for me. Effects can be used with the amp, and not only when direct signal is used. It has an effects loop that can be used with amps without an effects loop. It also has an optional footswitch unit that can control it remote in a live situation. You can use your own favourite IRs. It can be integrated in a MIDI rig if needed. Boss Editor looks flat and boring, but works great. The fancy, polished iPAD IOS user interface of the OX editor is so 2018, but also works :) Both great units, but I thlink the Boss unit is the better choice for live gigs.

[@mattg082]

I’d buy the Boss of I needed one…I found one on second market for $950. Not a bad deal honestly. I have a Sky King so just bought a cheap Captor on sale to go DI/IR cabs. As I have the attenuator already. But I like the fact you could add a send and return on Fender amps, had midi, now I believe 30ish IR presets, 10 boss effects. If you don’t have a send and return, plus all the extras and attenuation…it seems worth it at least on used market. These boxes if they were $999 prob be more enticing. $1300+ is getting close to a nice amp with a Webber Mass. but serious weekly gigging in medium venues…yeah it would pay for itself.

[@cstrempler]

Guys, the Kemper actually works really well with pedals and I've A/B'ed this and I'm convinced you can't tell in a recorded situation. Besides the new floor version of the Kempler would allow you to create a killer floor rig with both the analog pedals that you love and the modulation effects going through the effects loop. Don't get me wrong, I love cranking a tube amp, but it isn't practical in the majority of situations anymore. My hearing tests came back and I've definitely got to save what I have left so I can continue to enjoy playing in bands (probably many of your viewers have the same life challenges as the pass 50). By the way, when was the last time both of you had your hearing tested? Rock on, Mick and Dan!

[@sm19]

That's a tough one, I'm still undecided. My two main goals would be to: 1. Play with my regular amp and pedals but through headphones for home practice. 2. When playing live, have the option to send to front of house to limit or eliminate stage volume. When playing for my church, we have the amps mic'd and off to the side of the stage. We use IEMs but I only have one earbud in so I can still hear my amp. Certain sound guys are more particular about stage volume than others so it would be nice to lower stage volume or eliminate it and just send straight to front of house. With the OX would I just plug in a quarter inch from the OX to a DI box that has an XLR out? Or would I need some sort of other TRS converter?

[@Glicksman1]

If all you need is to lower the volume of your amp when plugged into a cab without affecting impedance or tone and without a lot of fuss and feathers, the most transparent, reliable, safe and effective attenuator I’ve found is ”The Ultimate Attenuator”. You should check it out.

[@robdownes5159]

I'd like to see boss do a 'live' version of the amp expander, reduce the effects to just reverb, maybe a mono output and a few other reduced features to cut the costs. It'd be great to be able to use with a smaller amp 10-20 Watts, reamping it for a bit more volume for bigger gigs without having to push the amp hard. Some great sounds on today's episode, bit of a tricky subject to make interesting but you guys managed it as always.

[@ThatPedalShow]

The price of units like this isn’t in the software and modelling. It’s in the physical box and components and the time/labour of manufacturing. It’s easier to add features to justify the price rather than take them out and reduce it.... Id love to do a show on manufacturing costs one day. Nobody would let us, but it is absolutely fascinating. We all expect cheap prices but high wages and living standards. I can’t get my head around it. Mick here.

[@robdownes5159]

@@ThatPedalShow yeah it makes sense really, I suppose it's easier to have a few more features that aren't used by everyone but aren't that costly to add. A manufacturing costs show would be interesting, to see just how much difference economy of scale etc makes, probably a few manufacturers would get a little bit twitchy at that. Cheers for the reply!

[@aarondaniels629]

Dan for your cab have you considered a Vox 212 cab? With 1 alnico blue and 1 greenback? I know vox cabs are kind of cheap feeling but the size is just perfect and they look cool.