The 10 Best NBA peaks since 1977

[@ThinkingBasketball]

Thank you for all the amazing comments throughout this series!! Reading your reactions, feedback and (undefeated) jokes was one of the highlights of my week over the last few months. So...how do you feel about differentiating between these all-time greats? What would your top-10 look like?

[@cdmacd]

Well done. This series is a KZbin masterpiece

[@dask5687]

Do you edit all your videos? Including the hilarious but incredible drawings?

[@perryquijano6749]

Just a masterpiece

[@TheOnlyRizzy]

No Kobe in top 10 😢

[@AX5Terminator]

Jordan is freaken Thanos with all 6 infinity stones: 1) Mind - Killer Mentality 2) Power - Explosive First Step 3) Reality - Control and Mastery of the Ball 4) Soul - Unmatched Artistry 5) Space - Created with his Amazing footwork 6) Time - Hang Time! All held by his gauntlet size hands!

[@savethetrees1214]

Thinking basketball is at the greatest peak for basketball KZbinrs

[@acpliego]

The GOAT without a doubt

[@luketanner5419]

Thanks Thanos

[@ahmedadem2227]

clayton crowley and thinking basketball must be going through the worst backpain, the way they're carrying basketball on youtube lmao

[@0401412740]

Coach Daniel was good too until he was recruited by Dallas Mavericks

[@conorskurk-dawgg2947]

For real. Makes you recognize just how horrible the "analysts" on ESPN are.

[@akshaychekuri9504]

I think we all knew what the top 2 would be when everyone else on the list had a ceiling of 3rd place.

[@ΚώσταςΠαππάς-φ7ζ]

i also knew Shaq would definitely be either 3rd or 4rd

[@TheCloud175]

I don't think it was ever in question, cutting it at 1977 hurt Kareem's chances of top 2, and there's no one else who has a good argument other than LeBron or MJ.

[@davidolinger3948]

@@TheCloud175 yeah, I'm actually a huge believer in how incredible young kareem was, but mj and lebron are no doubt the best 2 in this time frame

[@Alphadestrious]

No kobe?!

[@StefveoX]

You mean a roof?

[@FootyInsights_]

Jokic sliding in during the Shaq segment hits even more after this 2021-23 stretch he produced

[@amazintr3266]

I was thinking this after I saw it 😭😭

[@freaking7459]

The fact that Kareem was good enough to have the 6th greatest peak ever between the age of 30-33 as a Center is insane.

[@kingofallmen1]

Yeah. Nobody is close to him in total scoring.

[@peterpan3022]

@@kingofallmen1 wdym? lebron will pass him next year in total points scored and has already passed him if you include playoff points. and mj has the bigger ppg by quite a bit. so in what world does noone come close to him in scoring?

[@Careless_101]

Maybe he was in his prime in the aba when he was in physical peak.

[@alessandropozzi2214]

lebron at 31-34 with cleveland even better, but we take lebron so much for granted that we don't even notice

[@reimixo]

That wasnt his peak tho

[@samuelyuan291]

Jokic just sliding in during the Shaq segment is so funny

[@minecraftowypolak]

skinny/sneaky jokic

[@toteispoe4]

Got to think he's going to have a very high spot on this list when it's all said and done. Most offensively skilled center ever with sneaky decent defense. Doncic for sure will be on here, too. Playmaking is a powerful thing.

[@vauneoso3292]

MVP!!!

[@clevisbernier8973]

@@toteispoe4 I think he's already a top 20 Center probably.

[@toteispoe4]

@@clevisbernier8973 Definitely, not probably :)

[@Akaya7777]

Seeing those on/off splits for Green (Im Assuming Draymond) and Ginobili makes me want a breakdown video for each player. Those stretches are absolutely insane. You could argue that those splits showcase their claim as two of the greatest supporting stars of all time.

[@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS]

draymond green is one of the most unique players in nba history a 6’6 center whos defensive ability matched 7 footers

[@richardmaska1818]

"Impact relative to era" pretty much guarantees Jordan's place at number one.

[@libraalibaba]

Most definitely

[@mjg6233]

No

[@leultrainstinct406]

As the greatest peak? Then yea I guess. But like Ben said, it’s really really close.

[@claudiojr.bellin496]

Exactly, Richard!

[@myasswithacherryontop1902]

Richard!

[@jacktata5284]

My life is complete. I can die now

[@JarvisN]

No

[@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5]

LEGOAT BETTER BE 1

[@joshuasamuel2274]

I still have to finish one piece

[@exiege]

Don’t

[@austin5944]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 are you just a bronsexual bot or a delusional fan. 6 for 6.

[@dulogmaz]

The fact that you can separate 3 different stretches that would end up on the list for Jordan and LeBron each just shows how dominant they really are/were. GOATs no doubt

[@kaimarquez8046]

When is this shown in the video?

[@charlesfowler4308]

@@kaimarquez8046 at 21:27 they show 8 Jordan playoffs, using the 3 year peak system that's 3 peaks (2.66 for the pedants). While at 22:07 They show 3 sets of LeBron peaks and 2 Jordan sets.

[@mbok29915]

half of the greatest peaks in history belonging to two players, they indeed are in a different stratosphere

[@Xanninja]

@@mbok29915 Been saying this. 💯💯 even if you don't prefer either player, no debating their spots.

[@Mercurial.]

So how does Lebron has 3 peaks when he STILL has a LOSING RECORD and lost the most of all time for an MVP again 🤔

[@dhruvkasthuri6401]

25:00 The fact that Jordan and LeBron are so far ahead of all other all time great players in their peaks shows how special they really are

[@Akashic85]

Wait how are their top 3 voted more than their vote share

[@Herv3]

Just remember that Lew Alcindor - AKA Kareem Abdul Jabbar - of his Milwaukee Years would probably have a peak as high as those two.

[@Herv3]

@@JVeleta11 that's a lie

[@Herv3]

@@JVeleta11 dude, you ain't fooling anyone.

[@loydkline]

Michael Jordan own nba basketball 🏀 1980s & 1990s

[@cgmp326]

Olajuwon top 5 is all I needed to see. Good job on the ratings

[@bolt7047]

He's really underrated, but am glad hardcore fans like us can appreciate how good he was

[@mixedpleasure4324]

you have to remember Wilt and other from before 77 was not in this video and Wilt was better then Olajuwon

[@siya2195]

Mixed pleasure no bro Wilt under played underplayed the playoff and people don't know .hakeem would never have Hakeem>Wilt

[@mixedpleasure4324]

@@siya2195 Wilt was a two time champion just like Hakeem so what are you talking about and Wilt average way more point twice as many rebounds and almost twice as many assist with a better FG% and Wilt has 4 mvps and average over 50 pint and over 44 point and 38 and 36 and 37 with a 48 vertical like Mj.. Wilt was arguable the best player ever only Mj is surely better imo but Wilt could easily go as high as number 2. Hakeem doesnt do anything better then Wilt so just cut it out

[@siya2195]

@@mixedpleasure4324 Bra the the chainpainships he won were when he wasn't averaging record breaking numbers in the first one he was a 21 ppg scorer and the 2nd he was a 14 ppg in the playoffs and as I said there were many times in the play-offs were Wilt had a chance to beat the Celtics and Russel but he didn't have his record breaking averages (he underplayed) and got beaten many ,many times and only won when he wasn't avenging those numbers. Lastly Wilt is still an alltime great but people get lost in stats and records but we have to realize that you can avenge 50 if your taking 39.5 shots a game Hakeem > Wilt

[@sussvarman]

a weird detail to point out but: i love these thumbnails SO much. its so hard to find a balance between what works for the algorithm while making something that looks genuinely pretty. the graphic designer behind them deserves so much credit, as they are what drew most of us into these videos!

[@milesvincent6953]

I already knew D-Wade and Dirk were goated. Can’t wait for a future series on them

[@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5]

LEGOAT CARRIED WADE AND OWNS DIRK

[@Thanosdidtherighthing]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 2011 Finals 🌝

[@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5]

@@Thanosdidtherighthing DIRK CHEATED

[@snazzrazzmazzlejazz8974]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 Hold the hell up. People really say whatever the hell comes to mind now, huh.

[@cia6520]

@@snazzrazzmazzlejazz8974 cmon man he is being funny

[@diegocarvajalcastro]

That final race for the first place was way dramatic, well done Ben

[@samuelyuan291]

I'm just happy that Steph Curry gets his respect

[@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5]

Lurry shouldnt be top 100

[@xenopanda1]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 ZaMickey acting like his low-quality videos :)

[@edwardtimothy3581]

Agree

[@scoots2085]

@joceja23 what

[@alliesstartedww1308]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 you clearly have bo basketball knowledge lmfao

[@ja8ames]

Great series, fantastic work Ben! However you might work it in, I'd be really interested to see something on Charles Barkley. He was such a unique, unconventionally dominant player in his own way, it would be cool to see your perspective on him.

[@MrAntwan301]

That Jokic cameo is perfect hahaha

[@gamemeister27]

Oh man is he making the KG argument!? OH MY GOD HE'S DOING IT! YES! YES! I LOVE YOU! THE STATE OF MINNESOTA LOVES YOU! YOU ARE WELCOME IN EVERY HOUSEHOLD, YOU GET FREE HOTDISH FOR LIFE, AAAAAAAA!!!!

[@bcyost1908]

As a minnesotan, I liked this because of your use of hotdish.

[@gamemeister27]

@@bcyost1908 I'm a native after all

[@moaden9553]

No cap lol 😂 😂😂😂

[@AsadKhan-tz6vr]

I loved this series. You really make the game more fun to watch for me. I hope you can do a series on single year peaks i.e. 94 Pippen, 03 T-mac, 09 Wade etc.

[@aaanawaleh]

Its interesting how those single year peaks weren't in their championship winning seasons.

[@zotanica]

​@@aaanawalehpeaks usually occur when they take a lot of the offensive load(=less help, less championship aspirations)

[@YevgenyBazarov1862]

This series contains some of the most impressive content I’ve ever seen. As a teacher, it has an amazing balance of content and explanation that makes sure viewers don’t get lost. It would be hard to make one of these videos, let alone sixteen. Thank you, Thinking Basketball Team!

[@harrincourt95]

I wish most NBA fans knew that there are no time machines :(

[@scordatura9259]

Fr man it's so annoying. Like jordan fans say lebron would die in the 90s with that soft flopping. While lebron fans would say that mj wouldn't be able to face the modern nba with the three point shot and his inefficient latter years. While the truth is it's impossible to know what the players will be at each era since well they're humans and can adapt and change according to the style of basketball being played

[@tchalla7828]

@@scordatura9259 that’s why you should only judge them by how well they dominated their respective eras.

[@iLawfGaming]

@@tchalla7828 except lebron didn't dominate his era. He only dominated his conference. So even with those standards MJ is still more dominant and the better player.

[@MrReverseOreo]

@@iLawfGaming Are you just going to different comments to place MJ over Lebron?

[@lik7953]

@@iLawfGaming He did dominate his era. Look at the stats. This series isn’t about championships or rings or MVP’s. It’s about impact metrics. And Jordan and Lebron are neck and neck in them

[@adampohlen2133]

KG is the most underrated player of all time because he was on the Wolves

[@kingdinodragonite3470]

Facts. It’s still disgusting how Lakers fans taunt me that I said KG was better than Kobe smh.

[@a-a-rondavis9438]

@@kingdinodragonite3470 he ain't better than Kobe, but is RIGHT there in the mix of greatest PF's of all-time. Skill-wise, I think so.

[@kingdinodragonite3470]

@@a-a-rondavis9438 you would not say that if Kobe was on the hornets and the Wolves didn’t fuck up with that bullshit scandal that costed them 5 first round draft picks.

[@allanhouston6759]

KG is overrated.

[@FuShengAlex]

@@allanhouston6759 wow....finally a comment from you I can agree with 😆

[@Links2077]

one day we need a breakdown for chris paul from you brother

[@En_Gho]

This is one of the greatest series in all KZbin history. So much thorough work and dedication, and I just want you to know that we appreciate it very much. Thank you @ Thinking Basketball

[@Chairsium]

This was one hell of a series, best basketball content on KZbin for sure.

[@iisaii]

literally took my lunch break now just to watch this masterpiece lol but I’m gonna miss the greatest peaks series :(

[@thelegendofBigRay]

Just discovered this channel 1st week April 2023. I respect the research and insight. It has been fun watching !

[@SirKibblestein]

This was literally the best basketball analysis series

[@Dominicankareem]

Wade from 04-05 to 10-11 was something to behold elite on both ends took over games defensively as well

[@alexarsineau5369]

I need a CP3 greatest peak ASAP, point god forever

[@HailKingCeezer]

i was surprised he had no mention. Statistically he looks like the goat pure PG in his peak

[@onedone2011]

Nah. He is a game 7 disaster.

[@AndrejIzAwesome]

​@@onedone2011 dude literally has a game 7 gamewinner (on a bad leg I might add)

[@bleach4k239]

True. He's an advance stats type of player.

[@kyrito11]

@@onedone2011 huh

[@raysmith6731]

These videos are the best part of my week

[@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5]

NO THEY SUCK HE DISRESPECTS LEGOAT

[@matthewbodony4000]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 I hope you’re joking ( doesn’t even matter if you think Lebron’s the goat, these are high effort extremely high quality videos using stats and numbers to provide information to the viewer).

[@acpliego]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 como on fanboy. LeBron is questionably tied at 1. Let’s analyze, why do you think he’s disrespected ?

[@Raghuveer2798]

It's so amazing that even after 18 years since MJ's retirement, people still think he's the greatest.

[@Max-kv8uw]

(peak)

[@yvans.]

@@Max-kv8uw well Ben had him as his GOAT Edit: In fact he got Kareem as number 1, MJ number 2 and Bron number 3

[@murm9460]

@@yvans. as the goat perhaps (legacy,accolades etc.) but he has admitted to lebron being a better basketball player in a vacuum. Stating the only reason he would pick jordan over lebron in any scenario would be because of his bias for jordan which is understandable given his age

[@haha69sexnumber]

@@yvans. He doesn't though, Ben has MJ as a better peak but not a better player

[@yvans.]

@@haha69sexnumber No he does. He just doesn’t have MJ has His GOAT but he has him over Bron career wise too. Ben consider Kareem had his GOAT check his website you will see.

[@MinLee2]

Amazing series! Thanks for putting this together. I wish sports shows were this deep. Their level of analysis is, "if you score more points than the other team, you'll probably win."

[@WhelmedButReady]

By God, i wasn't ready for that face reveal at the end. I expected a slightly nerdier image lol. Nice hair Ben 👌🏾😁

[@crablord7934]

His face was already on his book lol

[@WhelmedButReady]

@@crablord7934 I never read the book or seen anything else besides what's on this channel. He was a headless mystery LMAO

[@crablord7934]

@@WhelmedButReady You can pick it up if you want to, though it's really more for hardcore analytics enthusiasts.

[@ThinkingBasketball]

Hey, I can be nerdier!

[@samhartje723]

Where is the reveal at?

[@sed1589]

Would love to see a series or even just a couple videos on those who just missed out on this series. (Wade, Dirk, Nash, AI, etc)

[@takensteak4485]

Jordan in 91 and lebron in 18 curry in 16 and shaq in 01 are the most unstoppable offensive weapons ive seen

[@wetlettuce8215]

Jordan's offball made him easier to pair to anybody who is willing to match his intensity. That offball movement got him a hair of an edge against lbj.

[@leultrainstinct406]

Honestly I thought Lebron’s superior facilitating abilities would give him the edge. they’re interchangeable though.

[@wetlettuce8215]

@@leultrainstinct406 slight edge on mj tbh, if lbj just have that off ball movement and mid range. Would have really dominated the league much more im talking 8 rings easy. Mj could facilitate at an elite level plus virtually no flaw on offense, lbj, just that J is the problem and shifty handles other than that he is a great player.

[@rafikz77]

@@wetlettuce8215 Great posts from both of you It’s nice to see a civilized debate on MJ vs Lebron tbh 🥂

[@NickTriant23]

The Greatest basketball series on KZbin came to an end. Sad to see it go but thank you very much for these videos. I'm going to refer to them for the rest of my life probably, when contemplating about some of these players. Would love to see something similar in the future with the guys that just missed out on this list, such as Chuck and DWade!

[@glyle2504]

We’re gonna have to put Jokic in this list now. The last 3 years has been *INSANE* for this man.

[@xisckillerx7578]

No

[@kingtowmater1038]

Jokic is insane but putting him here is a stretch imo. I’d say peak Jokic falls more towards the 15-20 range, but you never know things may change 🤷‍♂️

[@glyle2504]

⁠​⁠@@kingtowmater1038 I completely disagree. We’re talking 3 straight years of 26/12/9 on 59% from the field and 37% from 3 that in the playoffs becomes 30/13/8 on 54% and 41% from 3. How is that not as good as what Magic and Bird were doing? Also I’m putting Giannis in here as well, he’s right there with Duncan and KG defensively except he’s a better playmaker and playmaker than both and he’s clearly better at scoring the ball as well. 28/12/6 on 57% while being an all-time defender is absurd. I’m definitely putting both of them over KG

[@kingtowmater1038]

@@glyle2504 1) I don’t wanna sound biased here bc I’m a huge Jokic fan but basketball at a certain point isn’t just all stats. What Jokic is doing insane and he truly is the greatest offensive center of all time. I think he is a bit higher, maybe 11-15 range. But first, he is very very average at defense, nothing special at all. Of course, that is barely nothing of a flaw since he is virtually unstoppable offensively, however everyone in the top 10 has practically all time great defense besides curry and magic, and I think it’s easy for anyone to distinguish that peak curry is a better basketball player than Jokic. As for magic, it is definitely close, I ain’t gonna lie. But at the end it all comes down to the fact that in his peak Magic Johnson is the greatest passer of all time; he averaged 24 and 12 along with 7 reb on 50% efficiency. As for bird he is arguably the most complete player to ever play the game, I would take him over Jokic. Jokic is gonna be there one day tho. 2) Giannis is an amazing defender and he does fall somewhere all time but please don’t say he’s at the level of KG and Tim Duncan. KG and Tim both have respective cases as the greatest defender of all time: to compare Gianni’s to that is way too far of a stretch. Don’t mistake me for hating on current day players bc giannis is crazy and he’s surpassed virtually every PF in peak (Barkley Dirk Karl Malone) but he’s still behind KG and Tim for me. He is a better playmaker and he has great scoring volume but KG and Tim are def better in terms of their range; both are two of the greatest midrange shooting bigs of all time, KG prob 2nd right after Dirk. Giannis cannot shoot for shit. Giannis is very close to KG and Tim D rn in terms of peak and I think he can surpass KG but he hasn’t done it for me yet.

[@glyle2504]

@@kingtowmater1038 I feel like when we have these discussions about older players we tend to make it a matter of who’s greater instead of removing the names and comparing the games. Nobody’s saying Jokic is greater than Magic or Giannis is greater than Tim Duncan, these are just about 3 year peaks, and I don’t think that’s something you necessarily have to “earn.” First I’m gonna do Magic and Jokic because it’s the more direct comparison. Magic obviously is the better passer, he’s the best passer of all time. But Jokic is arguably a top five passer ever, behind Magic LeBron and Kidd. You wanna put Nash CP3 and idk, Isiah Thomas above him fine but that’s really it. So the passing gap is there but you’re still talking about a guy who’s an offensive hub and can make just about any pass Magic can make just with less flair. But there’s more to being an offensive hub than playmaking, scoring matters as well. And Magic’s 3 year stretch has him at 20/13 which is ludicrous passing and far from being a scoring liability-but he couldn’t be a scorer. He’s not going to beat you with that more often than not and the whole “make him a scorer” thing people say about Jokic applies to Magic. Jokic however is 26 ppg guy who can’t be stopped from scoring the ball, in part BECASE of that passing. But unlike Magic he can kill you in the post, he can hit midrange shots with ease, and he can hit threes…he’ll, he can hit stepback threes over 7 footers. And in the playoffs his scoring reaches a level that only guys like Shaq Hakeem and Kareem can match. Not to mention his defense against other centers is very underrated as I just watched him go against my Lakers and defend Anthony Davis better than Anthony Davis defended him. The same Anthony Davis who was on an all time defensive playoff run. Add in the rebounding difference and yes, I’m taking Jokic. As far as Giannis the Tim Duncan defense was a bit of hyperbole-although no, Hakeem stands alone on that defensive mountain-Giannis is 100% the defender KG is. Sure KG is more versatile, but by how much? KD from 02-04 could guard the 4 and 3 at an elite level, and could switch on to a 2 guard or a 5 and do well. Not lost on a switch on a perimeter but also not bbq chicken against most centers. EXCELLENT versatility, and it’s virtually unmatched for a PF. But Giannis is literally right there with him. He guards Centers and Power forwards at an all time level, and he’s also a great defender at the 3 as well. He’s also good on a switch although not as good as KG but in a pick and roll situation he much like Anthony Davis can basically defend BOTH guys in the PnR because of his length. It’s quite literally a stalemate defensively. Look at his 2021 run as a whole. He kept Butler to 3-12 shooting in the 1st round, he kept KD to 5 of 15, and then against the Suns he was as good defensively as anything I’ve ever seen. He was an absolute horror on that end and to act like there’s some gap on that end is ludicrous. And then scoring while KG is a better shooter, he’s not a better scorer. Melo is a better shooter than LeBron he can’t score the ball better. Giannis is giving you scoring production and efficiency we’ve literally never seen from his position. Rebounding Kevin Garnett had better numbers but personally considering the dropoff after he left I consider that to be a result of Minnesota, because as soon as KG left Minny he averaged 4 less rebounds per game and never reached 10 again after consecutive 13 rpg seasons. Peak for peak I’ll call it a tie but if you wanna go KG fine. And as far as passing I think again they’re both great, but Giannis is clearly better. They’re both giving you 5 or 6 assists per game but I’m watching Giannis on occasion make passes behind his defenders back out to a shooter in the corner like he’s Magic Johnson or something, it’s close but I give him the edge. All in all between those two everything is close…except the scoring which isn’t. I think if you wanna call KG a slightly better rebounder in defender in that stretch sure, but Giannis is far and away the better offensive player and for this peak he has the DPOY to prove it, as well as back to back MVP and a Finals MVP on a run which shows that regardless of who you think is better in the regular season Giannis was the better playoff performer. 28/12/6 on 57% for Giannis. 23/13/5 on 49% for KG. So again, if you think either of these guys are better than Jokic and Giannis that’s fine, but it’s extremely close and in no way a slight to those ball of gamers to say these current guys have stretches where they were as good or better or are just better overall.

[@hjtskyekty901]

I feel vindicated with the Duncan/KG and Magic/Bird arguments. I've spent too many hours arguing those things... I'd also love to see some purely defensive star videos for my man Mutombo, and Ben Wallace, Rodman, etc. Thanks for the series!

[@stephenmoney4722]

i got shivers at the end 😭

[@waynefmj]

Man considering Hakeem beat majority of the greatest Centers in their era, and was considered MJ’s greatest championship threat his summary was a bit mild. I mean this is the guy that made MVP David look mid, then proceeded to sweep Shaq & Penny. He led his team in Pts in everyone of those playoff campaigns to chips. He along with MJ dominated the 90s

[@mq830]

Standing Ovation for a TERRIFIC series. Unbelievable analysis. Congrats to everyone at Thinking Basketball. Can't wait for more amazing content!!

[@perryquijano6749]

This is going to be good

[@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5]

NO IT WONT UNLESS LEGOAT IS 1

[@paungsu6778]

@@zamitlegoatis10-0inmybooks5 wtf is wrong with you 😑

[@keronel7570]

@@paungsu6778 maybe he's just a parody account or something like that

[@jeffx40]

Awesome, awesome series. I loved all of it. I hope you read this comment though as there is one really big omission from this series imo and I was surprised to not even see him in your honorable mentions, and that's John Stockton. From 88-91 he averaged over 17ppg 14apg and around 3 steals per game with 612% true shooting. That's gotta be offensive impact similar to magics with far superior defense (I don't even think Stocktom gambled as much as Jordan to get those stealals) . It almost feels like he was just forgotten about, how does this not make the list? I'm curious. It satisfying to see Olajuwon ranked so high though. He deserves it, but so rarely gets the praise he deserves. Along with Stockton he is the most underrated all timer ever imo, most people don't even put him in their top 10.

[@coledorillo6685]

The comments are going to be spicy, you already know some feelings are going to be hurt despite the analysis being shown

[@acpliego]

But we come to this channel to be analytical and find out about basketball, there are other channels for fanboys so I predict little controversy.

[@coledorillo6685]

@@acpliego I mean I hope so. but its the internet so you never know

[@acpliego]

@@coledorillo6685 lol, you’re right

[@Thanosdidtherighthing]

@@coledorillo6685 There’s always some level of subjectivity. No ranking is completely objective.

[@markpagtama7954]

Numbers can only tell you so much. You cant put leadership and heart on a spreadsheet.

[@doublefieldli]

I have to say, this is the BEST basketball analysis series!!!! and it's so much more knowledgable than those from ESPN. this is real substance! THANK YOU

[@diegosantacruz6331]

Awesome series! I was just wondering where you think bill russell, wilt and other greats before 1977 would stack up. Such an awesome series. And a great finale. The whole time I was nervous knowing this would determine my opinion on the Lebron vs Jordan debate lol and it was obvious those 2 spots were for them. I'm also curious if you could someday make a series or video on what you think great pairings of superstars that never happened would have been based on their playstyle. I think it would be fun.

[@WhelmedButReady]

In the immortal words of Steve Austin......Gimme a hell yeah!

[@Piripiao_YT]

HELL YEAH!! And that's the bottomline, cause Stone Cold said so!

[@vmrabello]

accompanying this really made me feel eager to learn more and more about basketball, and with this series completed, I even feel like I've been part of something. That is awesome content, thanks very much Ben

[@shittujo3147]

Mind you this series doesn’t take into account longevity which is an important metric to measure Greatness so that ranking would put players like Kobe a few spots ahead while adding to Lebrons already high ranking. Great great series btw the GOAT of basketball content on youtube

[@fqwgads]

I'd be interested in a best defenders series, how bout you guys? Starting 5: Jordan Pippen Leonard Garnett Olajuwon

[@mrmacross]

Ben has Jordan as All-NBA caliber, but not all-timer. Ben's stats have Jordan as the best defender at his position, but Jordan failed Ben's eye test.

[@sandigunawan3927]

Duncan, Ben Wallace, draymond, giannis, AD, mutombo and many more is above mj.

[@steelwall4396]

We need to talk about Lebron too He takes it easy in the regular season, but have seen that when he wants to turn up on defense he's terrifying. His elite size and athleticism let's him check 1-5 on-ball. He puts the clamps on all but the most obtuse match-ups And off-ball his great speed, vertically and IQ make him a problem. He knows what's coming and beats the offense to it a lot of the time. Quick hands, strong frame, great hand-eye coordination, GOAT reaction time, and one of the greatest basketball IQ's ever. He's like a more mobile KG on the court when he wants to be

[@williamkoscielniak820]

@@GameChanger-xi4iy Don't forget about Sidney Moncrief, Michael Cooper, and Alvin Robertson.

[@sandigunawan3927]

@@GameChanger-xi4iy depends really. Depending on the team construction. If u have like jarett Allen on ur team u don't need that much rim protection from ur guards, but if ur playing small ball, wades defense would be nice. I would choose Payton tho.

[@acctsys]

I may have underestimated Shaq. I put Olajuwon above him in my team of 6 (with KG, Bird, Curry, MJ, LBJ). But then again, Olajuwon may have been a better match to the pace of the others.

[@markyd02]

Really fantastic series. This channel stands out in a strong and competitive NBA KZbin landscape. A cut above!

[@knep24]

5:45 this is why Evan Mobely is the number 2 pick in the draft.

[@samhartje723]

I'm really excited to see what he can do

[@zhugelianges]

I think you have a pretty good argument among TD vs KG, TD has better scoring rate and isolation scoring ability, while KG has an edge on passing and mobility. I am a TD fans, but it's hard to say whether 2003 TD or 2004 KG is better. So you may have your own choice (TD at #9, KG at #8) or choice from the public (KG at #10 and TD at #9). Hard to say who is better, just depends on your perspective. Can I say that? Thanks.

[@chad522]

KG barely edges TD out on trash talk, but TD was amazing for the image of the NBA. Its a tough one

[@BinaryBard64]

I would play a basketball video game with these little cartoon players. They look so happy.

[@tinytim4823]

Would loveeee a series like Greatest Peaks: Postseason runs, looking at all time individual post seasons: Lebron 09/2018, nowitzki 2011 etc etc

[@MeLoveParisHilton]

LeBron 09? He didn't even make the finals.

[@tinytim4823]

@@MeLoveParisHilton when did I say it had to be a finals run

[@nickpowell2524]

Thank you so much for making this. This series has been the greatest sports analysis content I've ever seen.

[@claiborneow2346]

After the Chicago Bulls lost the first 3 games of the 1990-91 championship season, Michael Jordan never lost 3 consecutive games again in a Bulls uniform. Jordan also played in 126 playoff games during that same stretch without losing 3 in a row. As a kid growing up watching Lebron and Kobe play this is why MJ is the GOAT and I agree with him being on your 1 spot.

[@mr.sunshine2017]

"Michael Jordan" . Just look how many all nba and all defensive players during his Bulls years

[@claiborneow2346]

@@mr.sunshine2017 Your grammar is a little funny. But if I’m not mistaken it sounds like your trying to say Jordan was only able to do this feat of going on this streak for 2777 days and 626 games played cause he had a stacked team. Well in the regards to that statement, on the 3rd game Jordan’s streak would end he would average 28.6 ppg 7.0 rpg 5.5 apg 2.0 spg on 50% shooting with an average margin of victory of 15 points.

[@mr.sunshine2017]

@@claiborneow2346 Oh yeah, during those years Bulls had : 1. Pippen (1x 2nd all defense, 7x 1st team all defense, 1992-1998 All NBA (multiple 1st team and 2nd team selection) 2. Horace Grant (1992-1994 All Defensive (2x) 3. Dennis Rodman ( 1996 1st all defense) . Even when Bron joined big 3 miami, there was only dwade who won all nba in 2011-2013 ( 1x 2nd team, 2x third team) and WITHOUT all defensive teammates beside Bron . If you called Miami a superteam, i dont know what you called for Bulls. A superduper team?

[@mr.sunshine2017]

@@claiborneow2346 to add more contexts, in those years they also coached by Phil Jackson . At the end, 1991-1998 Bulls w/o Jordan > 2011-2014 Miami w/o Bron . So if you're trying to diminish 90s Bulls greatness w/o Jordan, you are totaly wrong my guy

[@claiborneow2346]

@@mr.sunshine2017 Who said anything about diminishing the bulls greatness without Jordan. Idk what even gave you that impression, thats all you. I’m not trying to have a senseless discussion about Bron vs Jordan cause you can go to twitter or IG with all that BS, there’s plenty of that there. My comment was originally made in regards to the video, which is who had the greatest peak at their best. Bball is a team sport its not a one man show and of course MJ had other great players on his team. But this video was about looking at a players greatest individual performances. All your energy in your comments is waisted cause you obviously missed the point I was trying to make. Which is that what Jordan did to have this crazy streak of not losing 3 games in a row for so long would not have happened if it weren’t for his great play on the court as an individual in the game that would've been the bulls 3rd loss in a row. And I’m not your guy, buddy🤣

[@barryhamilton28]

This is by far the best channel on social media. Salute to you brother.

[@mentalplane]

You missed a great opportunity to cover the peak years of Brian Scalabrine. He's a top 15 player, why didn't you make an episode for him?

[@Islandkid679]

Because Scalabrine's peak is beyond this list, beyond this scale, in the region of the unknown...

[@sharifbrown3567]

@@Islandkid679 for a fact

[@ericsmusic5927]

Dead meme

[@lstnsolutions711]

I believe Giannis peak is going to be outstanding

[@31olegna]

Most definitely

[@ianrhodes8786]

this series was absolutely incredible, thank you !!

[@jacobvgarcia]

Awesome work 👍 respect ! I like Duncan , his peak id argue came in his first 2 seasons 98-99; all NBA out the Gates/FMVP/NBA Title. He then injured his knee. Played well in 2000, but returned to his prior form n was his best from 2002-2005/06. (2 more FMVPS/Titles) 02/03 back2back MVPS, which he accepted in flip flops /Jorts was epic. Also 03; had atleast a top 5 NBA finals run of all time. Closed out GM 6 of the Finals with 21/20/10/8. With film evidence showing he had 2 extra blocks credited to teamates. probably the most common argument I hear that is used to deminish his career is how he had so much help. Further, that the great defense is still amazing without him. The latter being ridiculous; Bowen n the rest of their cast could play extra aggressive knowing he'd be waiting in the Paint. I believe TD is ranked 1 all time for def win shares. But the most unfair is this idea that the Small Market, broke a$$ SA Spurs surrounded him with amazing talent. Home grown greats yes, who developed over time; but I don't believe they signed 1 big FA until Aldridge in yr 19 for TD. I mean, they weren't Showtime, 85 Celtics, Kobe/Shaq/Gasol/Artest /Malone/Payton/Odom/Nash(hurt)/CP3(vetoed)... Or LBJ/AD/lol kinda forgot who else LA got. Awesome work tho love it!

[@Jeff_2x]

And so basically Bron and MJ are interchangeable

[@frankenviews4069]

KObe not even in the top 10 LOL

[@gmoneybagz2376]

Jordan is #1!Foh with that interchangeable nonsense!LeSheep will NEVER be #1

[@Zero-wy2gx]

@@gmoneybagz2376 MJ isn't number 1 never has been

[@leonhardable]

put bron on the 90s bulls and they wont win anything, put mj on the cavs and he will achieve the same as LBJ. bron is a great facilitator of great teams, but never was able to actually solo carry a team. MJ had a great team around him, but would have also won the league with worse teammates. LBJ lacks the heart people like mike, kobe or even steph had. never won anything without a superteam, or at least a top 3 contender, hopping to a different franchise whenever times get hard.

[@gmoneybagz2376]

@@leonhardable facts!

[@meircohen4814]

Thank you so much! I was waiting for the videos to come out! I really appreciate all the hard work. It was the greatest youtube series I have ever seen probably.

[@timothybelliveau3956]

casuals ask "where's kobe?"

[@d3adyoutubeaccount]

Peak Kobe Bryant (2006-2009) stats: 31 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists on 57% TS finishing as high as top 5 in DPOY voting and making all defense first team every year Playoffs stats: 30 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists 57% TS Finals MVP stats (2009): 32 points, 7 assists and 6 rebounds on 53% TS I don't know when it started becoming a trend to criminally underrate Kobe Bryant but it needs to stop.

[@_veerist]

Garnett over Duncan is an enlightening take. Come to think of it Duncan was impactful bc he does his part on the court reliably and consistently for long stretches of seasons. But he had nothing else to offer outside of his part. Nonetheless in my eyes they’re tied with Garnett in 9-8 spot. Also Kobe not being in the top 10 proves that this channel is purely objective (atleast it tries to). 👍🏻

[@Riri-oj1zs]

Duncan can score heavily too. He just sacrificed individual glory for the sake of the team.

[@_veerist]

@@Riri-oj1zsAgreed. But I can’t see him as a no. 1 choice in scoring like LeBron or Kobe. Same with Garnett. Garnett is much like Butler. Can score a load of buckets but struggles as no. 1 offensively. Duncan is more like Howard in this analogy but ofc much much better.

[@shamgar86]

I have loved most of your work (I say most, 'cause I haven't watched ALL of your videos), but this was my favorite series yet. I truly hope for another 3 or 4 volumes of this series. Thanks a bunch. Good stuff.

[@jakeharrison207]

wait I wanna personally meet the 8% and 3% of people who didn’t put Lebron and Mike top 3

[@Nickkhan802]

really bizarre right lmaoo

[@kingdinodragonite3470]

Probably 70s oldheads lol

[@NuryPPanaligan]

Probably Kobe stans.

[@savantpeen1567]

in terms of consistency its lebron but in terms of peaks, michael had an insane peak

[@nittypablo]

We need a best team peaks series now!!! That would be the perfect follow up.

[@andreingramakadjscrewrip7372]

Once again, this confirms that regardless of your personal opinion, Jordan and LeBron HAVE to be in your Mt. Rushmore

[@willhooke]

Having LBJ as Top 10 career is plain wrong Top 3 all time for me And given he's 2nd for Peak, he's had wow! seasons as well as great longevity

[@juju-vl7oj]

I try not to get too specific with ranking across eras, how do you compare when the way the game is played and almost of the prime competition changes? Instead of goat i prefer goad. Greatest of each decade. 60s Russell 70s Kareem 80s Magic 90s Jordan 00s Duncan 10s LeBron Luka, Giannis, Jokic and Zion are my current top 4 most likely Goad of the 20s candidates.

[@jonncockrell3606]

No, they don't.

[@andreingramakadjscrewrip7372]

@@jonncockrell3606 Just say you don't know basketball and go. Don't care for your response because I know you're wrong

[@leultrainstinct406]

This also confirms, to those Jordan fanboys who act like it’s not even a debate, that it is.

[@rankarat]

Mj peak was x76543 better than leUgly game james.

[@RohitRoy-lj8zx]

Loved this series...keep making such videos

[@ArcadianGenesis]

Putting Garnett ahead of Duncan is preposterous. You already proved it by showing Tim's offense was more valuable. Tim carried on offense *and* defense in '03. There was no co-star on that team. Manu was a rookie, Parker was a sophomore, and Robinson was on his last legs.

[@amenx]

Yea that’s hella off tf

[@ArcadianGenesis]

@jaydexe First, I don't see how that's relevant. Even if it were true that Garnett was a better "ceiling raiser" for a team, that still doesn’t mean his individual peak was higher. But this whole argument is purely hypothetical anyway. The only way to prove that would be to run an experiment in which both players swapped circumstances to see who really did better with different sets of teammates. If you put Duncan on the '08 Celtics, I have no doubt the team ceiling would be just as high if not higher. If you put Garnett on the '05 Spurs (which *did* have co-star talent), I'm not sure that team would have beat Detroit in the finals.

[@ArcadianGenesis]

@joceja23 Didn't say he wasn't good, but he wasn't a co-star. Duncan averaged 25 ppg in the 2003 playoffs, while Parker averaged 15 ppg. Manu wasn't even a starter; he was backup to Stephen Jackson. The whole offense was built around Tim, and he carried.

[@ArcadianGenesis]

@joceja23 Parker got benched for Speedy Claxton in the finals. 😅

[@ArcadianGenesis]

@jaydexe Let's just summarize it this way. Duncan's peak resulted in the rare NBA triple crown: League MVP + Finals MVP + Championship in 2003. Only a handful of players have ever done this. He also had a near quadruple double in the title-clinching game, and set the record for most blocks in a Finals series in history, which still holds today. Garnett's peak resulted in a conference finals loss in 2004. Now, obviously team success isn't the whole story - but the fact is, Duncan's peak was *proven* to be successful, while Garnett's peak did not prove successful. Therefore, you cannot reasonably rank Garnett above Duncan based on what *actually* happened. Your argument is purely hypothetical, i.e. "Garnett could *potentially* raise a team's ceiling higher if he had the right teammates" bla bla bla. Well, I prefer actuality over potentiality when ranking players. What did they *actually* prove and accomplish?

[@AndyChamberlainMusic]

the lengths some go to and the market for it, in just figuring out questions of "who was the best at this sport" is astounding but I'm totally into it lol

[@noelavalos4133]

Thats how you know stats are shit if kobe is not top 5

[@antoinefulgencediouf9735]

So why the analytics say Jordan is number one ? Maybe it just show how overrated Kobe was .

[@noelavalos4133]

@@antoinefulgencediouf9735 bro nobody is saying kobe is number one, hes top 5 in my opinion. I agree MJ is 1, lebron is 2 and you can make arguments of other players being better than kobe like kareem...but cmon at kobes peak he was unstoppable almost mj levels

[@Max-kv8uw]

@@noelavalos4133 Why do you think he was as good as MJ?

[@noelavalos4133]

@@Max-kv8uw 35 pts a game avg? Scored 81 points, elite mid range jumper? He was almost as good as mj when kobe peaked...clearly MJ is the GOAT nobody is debating that

[@user-uq1wi5jq6k]

Kobe has zero argument as a Top 5 career and definitely not peak wise, good lord. I like him but you guys have always overrated the hell out of him, especially since he tragically passed away. Yeah, he gave you an amazing feeling watching him and was super entertaining, but don't confuse your biases with how productive, impactful, and valuable he actually was on the court compared to these other guys above him. His peak defense wise was before his peak offense came, which is why he's not in this Top 10, rightfully so. He's around 9-13 on the all-time scale, and around 11-15 in terms of PEAK.

[@alfyadtyler12]

Pls if possible in the future if you can do something of this nature for the guys left out of this peak Dirk,Wade,ginobili series or something about the greatest defensive peaks and how it affected them winning a championship thank you!

[@jonrussell739]

Amazing series. One thing that doesn't get discussed enough is that some players played in eras where their conferences were weak as fuck. Magic and Lebron had golden paved roads to the finals, whereas Bird, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, etc. had to battle just to get there. Logic: If you lose in the finals, that means you wouldn't have made it to the finals if you had been in the other conference. For that reason, I wouldn't take Lebron's peak over Shaq's ever. Shaq 3 peated in a tough conference.

[@leultrainstinct406]

Not really. Look at some of the teams they faced. Expansion teams, low record teams, etc. they’re path to the finals is overrated, while Lebron’s is underrated. The amount of times he’s had to face teams with all stars, the best defense in the league, super teams, etc. is insane and overlooked. No way am I taking shaq over bron. Bron was more complete in every way and had a bigger impact. It’s him vs Jordan, then everyone else.

[@jonrussell739]

@@leultrainstinct406 Huh? During Bron's Miami years, what are these hall of famers did he beat in their prime? What plural super teams (plural) did he beat in their prime? Prime years are 23-30 for most players.

[@the757general2]

@@jonrussell739 Most players' prime years are between 25-32.

[@coloneldusty4476]

Excellent point

[@JDubs1464]

When you, a Celtics fan don’t see Bird in the thumbnail, see Magic in the intro, and he’s starts going over older legends who might’ve just missed the cut: O h n o

[@thebatmanwhoposts9600]

15:13 the bottom of Kevin McHale's ear makes it look like Robert Parish has an earring on.

[@CR2live]

Outstanding work. Thank you for doing this.

[@AchillesWrath1]

Kobe didn't even crack the top 10? I'm not even a Kobe fan but i find that interesting. Also i think Birds 3 year run of back to back to back MVP is a little underrated.

[@spiidey1]

For a perimeter player, Kobe never put up a GOAT season that topped 30 PER or WS/48 above .230. His postseason averages and advanced numbers arent comparable to other players on the list either. Beyond inefficient scoring, Kobe didn't playmake or rebound as much as someone like Bird or Magic. Defensively, Kobe was about average, which doesn't really mean much for a guard.

[@realabbzzy8856]

@@spiidey1 i completely agree

[@ceciladams4882]

Kobe was surprisingly just consistent in his career. If you look at his regular season and post season stats there is pretty much little to no drop off. So yeah he was just consistently kobe.

[@hermanosfernandez1537]

I’d have him over KG

[@F1nalB0zz]

@@spiidey1 lol 9 1st defensive teams and average he says,. the reason kobe isnt in this series is cause his peak was spent with the most garbage team in arguably existence and literally the team was just kobe for those 3 years

[@hydropirate]

Not sure if you read these, and not sure what the stats and data information is like here, but have you explored similar questions with the WNBA? The league is comparatively young, so there might be less of a clearly delineated rule change that breaks things into "eras" with clear differences (ie: post '77 merger, 3 point era). It means superstars still playing today competed with and against the inaugural superstars, with the rules of the game being similar enough the whole time. I think it would be neat to see some analysis of the impacts of players Lisa Leslie, Cynthia Cooper, and Sheryl Swoopes in comparison to Tamika, Diana, Candace, Sue, or even Breanna, Elena, and Maya. Would also be a good way to shine a bit of a light and love on the WNBA.

[@enochlevi5504]

I’m hella shocked there is no Kobe tbh

[@GamEleON1]

I cant wait for the new Ranking in a years time or so... great video as always with awesome and insightful information

[@6WI4]

Very good series, congrats. A different perspective talking about peaks. I understand you left Ricky Rubio out of the series to not hurt the players featured, but including a sneak peak of Draymond Green was a good enough balancing :). Thanks and have a great day you too!

[@drachimera]

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with Lebron James. Feels to me like a lot of people grew up with him as the best player in the league and you go with who you grew up with, I grew up with Bird and Magic dominating the league, so I think they are the best, people younger than me think Kobe/Shaq, people older think Russel, West, and Wilt. MJ is special! As time marches on, LaBron will fall out of the discussion and perhaps even the top 10 as people obsess over Joker and Wemby.

[@aestheticphilosopher]

Or maybe, yknow, LeBron is an all timer?

[@drachimera]

He is definitely an amazing athlete and the best in his generation

[@Mynipplesmychoice]

Okay stop it. I saw Michael’s peak and lebron would eat him for lunch. No way mj can defend him and lebron is a much better passer than Jordan was. Like u understand you’re doing the old guy nostalgia thing. hi however, as more self-aware person realize this and don’t overweight the nineties. Now apologize to lebron right now and stop acting like u can’t see how great he is

[@danielquest8644]

@@Mynipplesmychoice are you watching the nuggets vs lakers? Did you watch it last year?

[@crystalizedExposed]

i mean, in 100 years mj and lebron will probably be fringe top 10 like wilt and russell today, so maybe.

[@robg8203]

At 1:13, you put 1997-2020 instead of 1977-2020. Great video though brotha!

[@MrBrownj1000]

I clicked on this video so fast

[@michaeld.wilkins7124]

Kobe that one year when he was killing the league

[@fatkidslagirl3545]

You mean from 2003 - 2008? Ya somehow he didn't make the list.. idk what thats about...

[@slimshady1075]

@@fatkidslagirl3545 Me either that's crazy he put KG over Kobe.No disrespect to KG but c'mon.

[@iTuber012]

@@fatkidslagirl3545 he picked the criteria for inclusion - thus, folks get left out

[@fatkidslagirl3545]

@@iTuber012 yaaa, subjective list. I forgot about this post lol

[@nelsonadrianclyde11]

hands down best youtube series ive watched EVER

[@gorilladatalabs5785]

no Kobe? pretty insane

[@Abbad1579]

Not really

[@javieresteban5165]

A video about how important is defensive impact would facilitate people how much defense means in the game

[@amc1140]

You should do another one accounting for era, it's impossible to ignore the level of talent in the NBA today. This is because of expansions, the best athletes playing football, overseas guys, superteams, etc.

[@marquisdaniels8371]

🌝Too many hypothetical and variables to gauge. Lebron and Jordan for example never once played against each other but we do know for a fact that they played against a lot of the same players. Garnett, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Eddie Jones, Ron Artest, Jamal Crawford, Bruce Bowen, Iverson, Mcgrady, Paul Pierce, etc , all played against both of them . If your argument is that today’s competition will always be better than the past, that’s fine but you have to be consistent and take that to its logical conclusion which means Kyle Lowry played better competition than Michael Jordan and Lonzo ball played better competition than Lebron.

[@amc1140]

@@marquisdaniels8371 that’s fair, I’m more thinking about the all time rankings where the media ranks Bill Russel or Jerry West over someone like Kobe. 60s and 70s really aren’t comparable to today

[@dionysise5008]

Lebron 2013-2018 is the best player I've ever seen. And I'm watching since 1988

[@Thanosdidtherighthing]

Lol

[@karmic2277]

Get your eyes checked

[@jaymoney6233]

Lies, you've obviously never seen MJ in that timeframe

[@AT-mu6ov]

This is the best video on KZbin