The 4B Movement Is Not A Victory For Men

#datingadvice #datingtips #relationship #relationshipadvice

[@ClaraDarko]

As a divorced mother, I used dating apps for a few years. It was a disaster. Insults left and right, because of my age, because of my status, because of my looks, because of my hobbies (I'm a film buff and a gamer). I finally decided I want absolutely nothing with heterosexual men. My only male friend happens to be gay. I hope to teach my son to consider women as fellow human beings, not prey, not objects, just people to get to know and enjoy their company if they're worth it.

[@darcyroyce]

My mind is focused on solutions and I kept thinking we should make a dating site whereby people are vetted for the criteria that truly matters... What a change that would be...! Imagine all of us being inclusive, compassionate and encouraging towards otherness, no religious bigotry, manageable levels of emotional immaturity, aka, I won't try to destroy you because you, politely, rejected my advances, and you won't do the same if I rejected you, either, no calling each other names, and all the rest we bring up in here. Bliss. I think we'd all feel safe and free, for a change. ❤

[@oktobejustela]

This guy shows clearly, that he doesn t believe in consent. How can saying no to dating, s...x, giving birth and marriage be disrespectful? It is just a dicision they make for their own bodies and lifes

[@Alberto-wu1mj]

You’re speaking logically, and your hair looks awesome.

[@ellandecampbell6279]

I think Grandpa is severely overestimating how attractive he is to non-4B women.

[@annescholten9313]

Apparently some men have no clue about personal accountability. Thanks for this content Will.❤

[@lynettehuffstedtler8195]

There's something really, really disgusting in what that guy is saying. His stance is that deciding not to date, marry, have sex or babies is disrespectful to men. I'd like to know how. If a person decides they don't want to engage in any of those behaviors, it's their choice. It's not as if they are saying that men won't be allowed to date, marry, have sex and babies; any man who chooses to engage in any of those activities still has the power to do so with any other person who is willing. What this guys words and attitude smack of is a sense of entitlement. He's implying men are entitled to all of those things and women deciding they don't want to is depriving men of something they're entitled to. And they can't figure out why any woman would be a part of something like the 4B movement, or simply choose to be single. 🙄

[@darcyroyce]

❤❤❤

[@MizrahiChick]

Those eyebrow expressions though. 😆😉 Best !

[@HattielyEverAfter1995]

As a women under 30, with no kid and a low body count. I can honestly say mcbeardy hear couldn’t be more repulsive to me if he tried x

[@adinaknorr9460]

😂

[@ShinyAvalon]

The 4B/"Four Nos" movement sounds insanely radical to us, but it probably makes a lot more sense in South Korea. Honestly, it might be a desperate-but-necessary attempt by women in a bad situation to claim some autonomy in the only way they can. I mean, we've had over fifty years of women's rights in the West, but women and men both _still_ have trouble _not_ defaulting to sexist expectations when they get involved with someone.

[@jumu7983]

Korean society thinks of themselves as a Confucian society and I think while modern Korean society likes the respecting their elders part, they are struggling with the patriarchal structure not just in society but within the family itself. Like not getting the same amount of meat at dinner as your younger brother level bullshit. And since they've also developed into a hyper capitalist society with the accompanying exhausting competition from school onwards and endless work hours, I'd be too tired to put up with that regressive crap too. I think parents there are also a lot more comfortable pressuring their adult children into marriage and because of the aforementioned Confucian upbringing, people are hesitant to tell their folks to shove it. Oh, also, I don't think the insane beauty standards get enough push back.

[@Marlenkaminta]

Higher middle class and up might have had 50 years of women’t rights in the West, but first of all this is a minority of people, second of all 50 years is nothing compared to the centuries of effed up treatment of women and how it’s ingrained as norm into the mind of many as if was a birthright of men to abuse and use women. South Korea is not isolated from the West. Women’s rights movements started in the 19th century by the way. To you it might sound radical, cause it seems to take away something that is not a given in the first place, but to others it might sound understandable without being in SK. To many men this sounds radical, to most women this is not a surprise at all. You have a woman pic as avatar, but you sound a lot like a dude. :)

[@darcyroyce]

​@@MarlenkamintaI think both of you made some great points. ❤

[@ednakravitz2738]

It doesn’t sound radical at all It sounds peaceful It sounds blissful

[@sardonicrose]

4B may sound a bit radical to us (though not inconceivable, of course. I understand and support it perfectly fine.) though, as far as I have been made aware from folks in those regions, a lot of east Asia is still _quite_ sexist, tends to have stricter gender expectations, and feminism is generally mocked and frowned upon in the mainstream there; significantly more so than here. The claim that 4B is disrespectful to men? Only if men believe that they are actually _entitled_ to dating, marriage, impregnating someone, and sex. It is not disrespectful to simply live a life of strictly platonic and familial relationships with men.

[@mtclauraamaral2201]

It's not just believing they are entitled to it. It's believing they are entitled to it from any woman THEY choose.

[@sardonicrose]

@@mtclauraamaral2201 Right you are! _Absolutely_ men like that would _still_ piss and moan if they _were_ entitled to those things, but they couldn't be picky about who, specifically, they got.

[@mtclauraamaral2201]

Never knew of 4Bs, but kinda doing it. At this point I don't want any ties to a man that can be permanent in any way unless it's both our choice, so I have no interest in eitger marriage, that might lead to alimony and other issues, living with a man, for the same reasons, and having children. It is what it is. I might date, eventually, but it will take time and a lot of trust to develop anything further. The amount of trust I need nowadays to have s*x with someone is over the top, but again, it is what it is. If I'm in this position now, is only because things have happened to make me feel this way. So I don't think I owe any man anything at this point. I don't have to marry or have children, so I'm not giving in to that level of entitlement. How can you consider disrespectful something that is basically born out of self preservation after being dealt with severe trauma and disrespect by men? Give me a break...

[@darcyroyce]

Never part of that movement, yet part of it, for the past many years. I didn't hate men, I was heartbroken and I feared them. You could've easily asked me if I was OK and who hurt me, because I would've just collapsed sobbing (and I did, in therapy, and sometimes on these social media streets, too). I think we can come back to the golden middle road from extremes (staying completely abstinent for the past many years was also an extreme on my part) and de-radicalize, but it takes work, it takes a total change in worldview and relationships and most importantly, dropping the illusion that we should do it to hone to perfection. Progress, yes, perfection, nope.

[@domeatown]

I am not 4B, but I definitely empathize with people who have given too much to risk more and are cashing out while they still have a chance. I have no idea why it would be disrespectful lol. When dudes tell me they don't sleep with women I'm like... Oh neat. Because I dont know if this guy heard, but that is actually pretty common lol

[@domeatown]

For how many of these dudes are almost certainly on the DL... They always conveniently "forget" about non standard sexualities lmaooooo

[@ellanina801]

Dude is the “i want what i want, when i want it” Crowd. Don’t get drunk with him at parties, even if he doesn’t grape you, he will be psychologically and emotionally abusive. Just sayin.

[@TheFnPrototype]

I wouldn’t consider myself a member of the 4B movement but I do consider myself to the girlies who are opting out. The entitlement is CRAZY!!!! Feeling disrespected because a group of people are exercising their autonomy is CRAZY!!! As a girlie who isn’t opting out of dating and relationships men like this are not who I’d go for.

[@aprilwashington3150]

Will, lookout for Stronger Than Before channel. I suggested to her to reach out to you for collabs and turns out, she's a fan of your work 🎉🎉🎉 I would love to see yall act out men with microphones mental gymnastics sales pitch to manipulate women into polygyny. Or a man being okay with an open marriage until he see his wife getting more opportunities than him 😂 Anyways, I hope the two of you can work together 🙏

[@LadyMarigoldWithers]

I’m 4b I guess, too hurt atm to date but I know some decent men, they’re just usually quite a bit older, like being single or already in successful relationships/marriages. I’m a bit rusty on the dating thing now and you do tend to get stuck in your ways then guard that! I figure if I meet someone I can’t resist in the wild then I’ll take it from there and see what happens but not actively looking.

[@tinahilliard4447]

I'm a married old lady. I am finding that the older I get, the less appealing men are to me. I used to love men. Decades of dealing with them have really opened my eyes. If I end up single, I would never date. It's all so overrated.

[@ednakravitz2738]

I don’t consider a disrespectful to anyone to choose my own path and do what I wanna do with my own life How in the world is it disrespectful to some random man that I don’t even know