The £50,000 Honda Civic Type R FL5 - Can It Justify The Price?

[@ChishanFipz]

Can I just personally thank JayEmm for putting out so much (6hrs+) of decent content over this christmas period. You, sir have saved the lives of a few unruly children by giving me a sanctuary in my many times of need. Calmness has been resumed.

[@JayEmmOnCars]

My pleasure - thanks for watching!

[@lloyd9819]

Jayemm has well and truly become a master of his craft over the last few years.

[@bk_nreynolds3278]

@@lloyd9819 swear

[@polopowered]

Manage to get your tongue out of his ass long enough to write that?

[@johnss2k434]

I’ve owned the FK8, and now the FL5 type r. Yes you could get a nicer car for the money, but it would be hard to get a car that is this much fun while also being practical. It is not a car for people that want straight line speed, it is a car made for driving enjoyment. The way the shifter feels, the steering, the braking performance, it is a joy to drive.

[@veedee4860]

@@johnss2k434 there aren’t many manuals left.

[@JacesOwnWorld]

So you just made an argument for this car due to its “practicality”. How practical is this $50k+ car for rear seat passengers when it doesn’t even come with rear seat vents or a center arm rest?

[@johnss2k434]

@ If rear passenger comfort is what you are concerned about just buy an SUV.

[@joebanks9529]

@@johnss2k434 SUV is like driving a barge

[@dntshoot]

@@JacesOwnWorld there are vents under the front seats

[@nfspeedy2]

To disable automatic rev matching you have to stop the car, pull the parking brake to get access to vehicle settings. And there you can find it in the driver aids.

[@theboyfaz]

I still can't quite get my head around my first ep3 being £15,999.99 brand new back in 2003. Was the bargain of the century! Fun times 🎉🎉🎉

[@leviathan5207]

Anemic 4 pot, in a tiny car, with bad ride comfort that is about as luxurious as a bicycle. It's cheap for a reason... One of them is that you won't survive a crash that you could just walk off in a modern car!

[@MrLense]

@@leviathan5207who cares? The engine revs and delivers its power without a turbo. The concept and spirit of a hot hatch is that it’s meant to be tatty and cheap with a big engine. At 50k, the fl5 type R is at executive/luxury car prices. Even enthusiasts are buying up ep3 and fn2s. If you want comfort and quality go buy a german, you’re not even the target audience.

[@theboyfaz]

@leviathan5207 did you ever own one?

[@jdmguy44]

A Golf GTi was under £20k back then. It's all relative.

[@theboyfaz]

@jdmguy44 the R32 was more of a Type R rival in pure performance terms than the GTi and it was way more expensive as it was a different type of car.

[@robertthompson0]

I love these and this is by far the best looking iteration. Perfect performance daily.

[@Harry._.Thompson]

I agree but is it worth 50,000. like there are soo many great second hand cars for that money

[@robertthompson0]

@@Harry._.Thompson yeah I understand people commenting on the price but don't you think these are just a bit more interesting than a lot of alternatives? Things like the Golf R just feel so McDonald's.

[@ROVA00]

⁠@@Harry._.Thompsongreat cars at what? Which cars are lower priced that can be a track weapon yet be perfect for carrying a bunch of luggage for a road trip? Or carry three friends comfortably? …and do it better than the type R?

[@oldknees2381]

Bargain in Australia $74,000 = 36,800 pounds. Normally we get screwed. I have both a 992 Carrera & the FL5. I track both. I hate to say it, but I prefer on most occasions to drive the civic.

[@vjd222]

We pay just about the same in the US as you guys but don't get the alcantara steering wheel or back seat, power folding mirrors, park sensors or auto wipers 🥲

[@sIightIybored]

That's only £1000 (AU$2000) more than the base one here!

[@customX09]

Same with Canada, we get an even better deal. $53,100 CAD = £29,295

[@dstewusa7054]

@oldknees2381 This isn’t that uncommon - fWD cars get a lot of derogatory comments from the purists but they can be an absolute riot (going back to the first mini coopers from the 1960s) I used to own an Alfa 75 Cloverleaf on bilsteins, along with an Alfasud Ti (only 105ps, 920kg) - but it was always more engaging to drive the Alfasud

[@DuelingPeaks]

We have Brexit to thank for that.

[@caffeinefix2751]

Yes it's worth it! 70k aud here. Not cheap. But worth every penny. I make every excuse to go drive it. Anywhere really. Makes me smile even after almost 2 years ownership from new

[@kickazzdrummer666]

you're just justifying your purchase. bad financial decision on your part. 😂

[@qb4ever3k]

​@@kickazzdrummer666 it's only a bad financial decision if he really couldn't afford 70k. But any $70k car would be a bad financial decision. Maybe the dude is well off and could afford the car that he loves? Not everyone is broke you know.

[@sIenderrr]

@@kickazzdrummer666 on paper it may be bad but it’s what his heart desires so he’s rich in that aspect

[@AI-qd4vb]

@@sIenderrr rich in what? hearth desires? How is that something good? Irrational decisions that make him buy products that hinder his wallet and potential enjoyment. Toy wise, there are better hot hatches out there for the same money. A golf R is a lot more refined and versatile. The civics are so ridiculously noisy... In a bad way, road and wind noises, not engine. And even the engine sounds like a tuned can box. Their ride is harsh, their long wheel base make them less engaging to drive, the tech is average and sluggish, the materials are still creaky, hollow and cheap. Yeah, nice shifter, peppy engine and decent steering, but that is not worth the price of a premium segment hot hatch. Honda is ripping of their enthusiast customers.

[@van_der_lindeDA]

@@kickazzdrummer666i have the same thing to say as the man who bought one 2 years ago, mine 2 years old and also can't stop driving it...a masterpiece....i will make that financial decision again and again and again.

[@CJ-gh4eh]

Your comments at the end is exactly why I bought an FL5. Its a one car solution that does everything, and vouches for simplicity yet you get all the modern car benefits. Sadly mine was totaled when parked and I bought the North American only Integra Type S because getting Type R's here was really tough at the time. I wonder what you would think of that car. You lose the bucket seats but you get a louder exhaust and a even more comfort focused character. Still would choose a Type R at the end personally but I wish someday you get to experience the Integra as well. PS rev matching can be turned off in the "car settings" menu, sadly it is not a button or anything. I also tend to use individual mode, barely used plus R as it felt too bumpy on California backroads.

[@johnnyng8527]

@@CJ-gh4eh that FK8 can also do

[@marcinhernik1270]

How is the comfort of the ITS compared to your r? Is it a loud car on the road in the sense of cabin noise? Excluding the engine and exhaust noise. I'm trying to get out of a civic sport into a less noisy, more comfortable sporty car. Test drove the type S and initial reaction was that it was quieter than the civic sport but long term wise I'm worried it would reveal it's not?

[@CJ-gh4eh]

@@marcinhernik1270 So honestly, I feel that the ITS is still a loud car. It has such wide tires and still not as much sound deadening compared to something like a Golf R. Its a tinge quieter than the CTR but not like leaps and bounds. I find it totally comfortable and drive many 2+ hour drives in the car. But your tolerance might be different. What you will notice over the Civic Type R is the ride quality. It is much better and the exhaust shuts up in comfort but never drones even with the sound, the pops and bangs in sports + are so much fun. The Type S always gives you a sense of the raw CTR thats hidden under the Acura styling. Even in comfort it always feels like a sharp performance car. While a Golf R will do the comfort thing much better. But I apperciate the balance of Rawness and comfort you get in the ITS despite maybe feeling more "simple" and lacking less tech than the competition. If you have any other questions let me know. I have driven the MK8R, FL5, and ITS massively so I'm happy to give you honest feed back about them.

[@CJ-gh4eh]

@@johnnyng8527 Much agreed. But the looks of the FL5 are hard to beat for us more traditional individuals who prefer the styling.

[@BollocksToThat]

How is this comment 3 weeks old though

[@engared]

Heard from people who know how to drive, the FL5 is an absolute weapon! Probably would be my track weapon though nothing really beats a FD2R for bang for buck.

[@volvo09]

They seem to do damn good on track. I'm not a track driver, but they look fast and well planted when watching good drivers take them around the ring for example.

[@bk_nreynolds3278]

I was 16 when the FK8 first came to America. I remember how much of a big deal it was. I remember how controversial the styling was. This one might be a bit more handsome, but the garish styling of the FK8 never really bothered me. I’ll have one come next summer. Can’t think of a car that does more things right and better fits my situation.

[@BboyVReck]

I agree, when I was working at Honda they wouldn't let detailer or even low tech to move the car. And type R get sold once it off from the truck.

[@nightraven5760]

The EP3 still had double wishbones in the rear. It was the FN2 that introduced the torsion beam.

[@TheLmkPL]

Right, but they dropped double wishbones on the front - ek chassis has it.

[@FezzaYT]

I've had mine for 18 months and it is truly exceptional. You didnt mention the lift off oversteer which makes it especially entertaining 😅

[@peedeegt]

Imagine what you could have bought for £50k lol.

[@volvo09]

My 8th Gen So has that too :) must be a side effect of the limited slip diff. First time I encountered it on a sweeping turn I was glad I was ready!

[@CK-297]

I'm still looking forward to your review Justin? I hope your back is getting better too?

[@Punisher9419]

I have no idea who can afford to buy new cars anymore. All the people I know just get by with second hand cars. Most don't even own their own houses and rent. If I had £50k to spend on a car it would be a second hand Jaguar F-Type or something but to be honest I would put that money into savings for retirement when I can no longer work or towards money to buy a tiny house in the middle of nowhere because that is all I can afford.

[@ICalverz]

PCP. So people aren’t actually buying them.

[@PaulHipToBeSquareAllen]

people with money by them, or people that live in debt by them.

[@bobhob35]

As someone who’s in his forties and owns a house (with the wife) I cannot even conceive spending £50,000 on a car. That’s insane money for anyone for a Honda. Just No! Also it will be worth less than half in two years.

[@R03333]

It's all about affording the monthly payment really. Also, some people have more money than your immediate social circle. ALOT more money.

[@Punisher9419]

@@R03333 Oh yea, a lot of people have a disgusting amount of wealth.

[@talldarkrandom3170]

I love how subtle it is. It's such a beautiful shape.

[@TheMakk3]

At the end of the day, cars like this are aimed at towards enthusiasts, but unfortunately alot of us cannot afford them. It's a damn shame cuz i'm certain the FL5 is a magnificent car, but 50k pounds, or 80k euros here for a brand-new one, is a ludicrous ask. Hot Hatches at their design are meant to be offering affordable performance, this is by no means affordable anymore.

[@MrLense]

This, most enthusiasts are buying up ep3 and fn2 type R’s anyway.

[@LawrenceMacMacster]

I'm an enthusiast who could afford it but I'm 4 decades old no way I'll pay 50k for a Civic. I drive a 2018 f80 Especially this gen that looks like an insight crashed into a model 3...

[@r3games1985]

The Elantra N is and is fantastic!

[@JacesOwnWorld]

I beg the differ. I think most people could afford the CTR. They just don’t want to…

[@van_der_lindeDA]

​@JacesOwnWorld you have alot to say always....cool profile picture of a crappy golf😂

[@OTH89]

Awesome looking cars, love a Type R! But the going price for a "hot hatch" being £50,000 nowadays is mental. Look at the bloody Yaris, there is a £60,000 version 🤣🤣🤣

[@commanchi7]

Factoring in the used market, you can pick up F gen competition M cars you'd actually want to own for under £30k now to name just one

[@OTH89]

@commanchi7 I'd rather a DB9 for £25,000.

[@georgefotiadis3787]

Yes,here in Greece the type-R starts at €80.000!! Pure madness

[@kjph7438]

€85,000 Ire

[@paultaylor9498]

Probably because it does 170mph

[@FenderUsa]

The EK9 civic had double wishbones all round, no multilink in sight

[@JDMism]

The only time you’ll see an EK9 from an FL5 is disappearing in your rear view mirror

[@FenderUsa]

@JDMism ok?

[@B__L]

@@JDMism You mean to say the 1.6 N/A hatchback from the mid 90s is slower than the 2.0 Turbo from the 2020s? I'm fucking shocked. SHOCKED I tell you.

[@uzzyhr]

All Honda Civics from 88-01 had double wishbones up front and multilink in the rear.

[@FenderUsa]

@@uzzyhr they had double wishbones in the rear.

[@grigorioschristodoulou5229]

The car is truly amazing to drive. But 50k is ultimately too much. I went for a used M2 CS for not a lot more money (About 10k more - in Switzerland)

[@ChrisPatrick-q6k]

A lot cooler too, Honda is a bit gereatric

[@grigorioschristodoulou5229]

@ I don’t mind the new look. In white with the red seats and carpets it looks pretty awesome. But the CS with all the carbon bits and Merino leather feels a lot more special indeed.

[@user-jt6nw6wm5q]

M2 is more generic in switzerlamd

[@grigorioschristodoulou5229]

@ Well, clapped out M2s on 22 inch wheels for sure. But those who know what a CS is, know how much more limited it is. There’s 100 M2 CS in CH.

[@ChrisPatrick-q6k]

@@grigorioschristodoulou5229 Maybe not, however not many agree with you I'm afraid, it's not selling.

[@icarus_28]

james i have a question . when making videos do you script what you say word for word or do you speak as it comes to mind ? asking because it is so well put together but retains that spontaneous feeling

[@JayEmmOnCars]

All driving segments are unscripted

[@vindevhunta4905]

Nice shirt .. Good looking car with a manual transmission ❤❤❤❤❤… Vehicle prices these days are ridiculous

[@stevenpike7530]

Proper review…The ‘going to town rig’ you appreciate even more post ‘dream car’ rig…(I’d daily that in a flash)

[@baron_von_noob3117]

I have an FK2, on Dutch roads (You know, proper roads without pot holes), it's a brilliant handling, and rare car. And it's considerably more hardcore in it's suspension setup in +R mode, than the later, more grown-up FK8 and FL5 models. In the VAG infested Netherlands, An FL5 Type-R is a fantastic alternative, provided you can throw down €88k... Best to keep them stock though, mess around with the suspension, and the ride gets considerably worse. Use only Spoon or Mugen parts, if you want to alter them.

[@J88HNT]

@@baron_von_noob3117 I have an FK2 too. I think it looks way better than the FL5.

[@LawrenceMacMacster]

Proper road that goes around the pond. How long it takes to cross the country? Five minutes?! 😂😅

[@electrikoptik]

@@LawrenceMacMacsterIt’s 10 min you eikel. And we measure it in frikandel lengths

[@dc52e55]

I replaced my Tesla Model S Plaid with an FL5 CTR for daily driving duties. I also own a Porsche 997.2 and a 718 Spyder, but I haven’t driven either of them since getting the FL5. It’s simply a more accessible and worry-free kind of fun-an easy car to love that can do it all. Forget the haters; if you have the means to get it, you won’t regret it. The car is sublime. I can’t believe Honda is crazy enough to make a car this good when everyone else is focused on EVs and boring cars. Thank you, Honda!

[@wojtekp3212]

Extreme summer tires + 18" wheels makes this car an absolute delight!! I have that set up on my acura integra type s and could not be happier! 😊

[@BCNeil]

plus 18 inch tires will last longer. The 20s couldn't handle a pothole

[@jamesneedham1564]

Another great video! Absolutely correct about the fuel tank size (ultimately I sold mine because of this) - but used it everyday for 12 months and loved it!

[@itsnotagsr]

Immediately post covid I went car shopping for a hot hatch. Tried the Golf R, Type R, S3 and whatever the BMW thing was. Ended up with an A35 (pre facelift). On run out it was the same price. Won’t ever be the best track day car, but perfect daily.

[@JaeToy]

It nice, I own one. I Wanted - something that looks good - reliable - fast - cheap to maintain - manual - can fit a family - good rear storage - holds value well - gives race-driver feels every time I also own AMG and prefer driving Civic

[@fenrirslip]

This is where I'm grateful that Acura is a thing here in the States and we have the Integra Type S which one would think it'd simply be a more subdued/more expensive version of the Civic Type R, but there are some notable differences whether they be in terms of design or overall performance. To my knowledge, the Type S is meant to be more of a street performer hence why it falls under the more premium umbrella whereas the Type R can also be a street performer, but looks more like a track car given its rear wing. The Type S also has a power boost albeit it's nothing too crazy at 320 horsepower over the Type R's 315. Although, funnily enough, the Type S looks more sporty despite not having the wing in the back. It's also louder than the Type R as well. xD

[@veedee4860]

I love my ITS. The ELS sold me over the CTR, and not a single dealer would let me test drive a CTR.

[@davidkean5680]

Very informative & entertaining J

[@jamescarson6681]

0:43 Would be good if Honda UK can let you review their Civic e:HEV and the upcoming Prelude which is rumoured to have the same e:HEV drivetrain (+the FL5 Type R's dual-axis suspension layout in its front axle)

[@fjung123]

James, the flower shirt is epic! And so is the car

[@douglaskrueger357]

The design is next level compared to the FK8. Honda drew its inspiration from previous R types like the FK2 … less aggressive looking and simpler in its lines. The FL5 will prove to be a classic.

[@v8rockz]

looks like a boring family car. Has nothing to do with the R.. But always a matter of taste.

[@douglaskrueger357]

@ true. I prefer to say simple rather than boring. If you like European design, the FL5 will be more your taste. It’s reserved. That’s why I prefer older gen BMW cars… think e30. Some say it’s boring, I say great simple design.

[@nakoma5]

@@v8rockz All other Civic Type Rs even Accord Tpye Rs are based on basic family cars, wth?

[@v8rockz]

@@nakoma5 are you drunk?? The EK9, the FD2/FN2, and one of the best the EP3 were family cars? I owned a Civic EE9 Vtec, that was the base for cars like the EP3, has nothing to do with a family car...

[@nakoma5]

@@v8rockz So ignore the fact that base Civics like CX, DX, LX, EX, 2dr, 4dr....etc exist?

[@mokodorali5975]

Since when was the FK2 badly recieved? It is legendary car and will be collectors item. Highly prized amongst enthusiasts.

[@mikewhitehead50]

I didn’t understand that either. There was a lot of anticipation but I think it delivered.

[@R03333]

​@@mikewhitehead50holding strong values says a lot too

[@thebanditsix]

@@mokodorali5975 I own an EP3, fantastic drivers car,the fk2 is the only other type r I would change it for , aggressive styling and doesn't look like a saloon like the fk8 and the fl5.

[@dazq908]

I love my FK2, had it for almost 4 years and covered 25k miles, I absolutely love it, but I can understand why some people wouldn't pick one as a daily compared to something like a golf ;, it leans very much into being a more hardcore vehicle in it's class, and the firm suspension even in the non +r mode is probably too firm for many people. Also I think the one that was reviewed on the channel previously had modified suspension and an OTT exhaust which really isn't reflective of the stock car experience by a long way.

[@markjackson7650]

That was my first thought, I don't remember anyone having a bad word to say about the fk2. Wasn't it also the fastest fwd car round the nurburgring when it was released.

[@looneyyang1326]

Cheers from Florida. I love my 2025 Championship White Type R!!!!!

[@lorddoobsworth144]

2025 eh- man's living in the future 😁

[@dobie_bellaruby]

Totally worth it. Loaded with options. Drives amazingly, seats awesome and gearbox one of the best. Actually quite cheap compared to other new cars available!

[@jimmyfarley5581]

Brilliant as ever. Thank you.

[@jochlagrange]

That shirt has made my Xmas!

[@tonyboswell5414]

I love my FK8 I love the “in your face” looks, it shouts about what it is

[@robl7532]

It’s great at what it is and beyond. Im mot even mentioning how fun it is to drive and how special it feels.

[@ilikebobies]

The Acura Integra Type S stands out in person! The Civic is very pretty though

[@patrickbateman7122]

The way you talk about hot hatches makes me pml...you only started liking them in recent years, you said it yourself 😂

[@randymarsh3636]

I brought a decent Ep3 for a weekend fun car for 6k seven years ago, there are still fun cars at that price point Clio’s, mx5 ext grab one while you can. You’d have to be doing very well to drop 50k on a civic these days.

[@JohnAugust-tt8gc]

I have been lucky to have owned many cars nissan gtr, honda nsx,A45s,TTrs , m2,Cayman gts,997 turbo and alot more. I have had my fl5 for 6 weeks and I can't stop driving it. It's so much fun to drive there are some great deals on new ones at the moment. I would would highly recommend recommend getting one if you can.

[@vindevhunta4905]

Should have red seats in the rear seats too ….good looking car ❤❤❤ Manual transmission ❤❤❤❤

[@Stringwar]

It's quite clear that there is some politics going on in Europe to throttle back sales of hot hatches. What's really left that's for the working man? The i20N has now gone, no Renaultsport Clio for years, the GR Yaris mk 2 is £35k in Australia and £11k more in the UK. The Focus ST is £40k, the golf GTI is £40k. Let's be honest, it's all a bit of a joke and all quite deliberately constructed. Even the crappiest GTI of all, the Polo GTI is now £32k with options. So glad I've got a Mk1 GR Yaris Convenience pack, unless there is Government pressure I will likely keep it for a long time.

[@R03333]

All the previously made cars still exist, they're just used cars rather than new.

[@Stringwar]

@R03333 Well obviously!

[@R03333]

​@@Stringwarso the working man has plenty to choose!

[@Stringwar]

@@R03333 Think you're talking about another subject, second hand cars.

[@Rhowhat]

It's not some big secret, companies get fines if they don't sell enough EVs. There are still these halo models for advertising but they don't actually want to sell that many. Look at the price rise on the mx5. With finance the new GR Yaris is also 50k, I have a MK1 and it's brilliant but still think you'd have to be crazy to spend 50k on one.

[@person.w9780]

Here in Canada the FL5 is extremely limited in terms of overall examples (less than 600 for the 2023 to 2025 models years), so they regularly go for $60k+. At this point the Integra Type S is a better deal considering it's nicer, usually cheaper and essentially the same car but more streetable.

[@timwong580]

Can’t wait for the next gen civic typer!

[@bigboost2641]

I had a deposit down before the price was released, once I saw £50k + I withdrew my deposit as the outgoing FK8 was £36K utter madness. Although the FL5 is redesigned from the FK8 and has been improved in nearly all areas, an over £10k price increase is a difficult pill to swallow. Yes there are many £50k hot hatches but quality and design doesn’t justify the price to me.

[@tonymiller3182]

Nah. Harry had it right. A Renault? But we ordinary folk want something that'll hang together for a few years.

[@b71071]

Buy the MK3 Megane RS then (250/265/275), mechanically rock solid and just as much of a drivers car as the new Type R.

[@NigelDeForrest-Pearce-cv6ek]

Incredible Pricing!!!

[@scotttyper412]

The FK2 is one of the best standard cars I've driven and a super rapid car to cross country. It is an absolute weapon of a road car. If you don't think it's a good car, I'm really not sure how.

[@vladimircungarovski1498]

He reviewed one that was not really tastefully modified, including the suspension. Everyone that knows these cars knows you almost always don't play with the suspension..

[@arnoldkiel7670]

First time JayEmm did not "get" a car. Compared to the (also splendid) FK8, this iteration is all and only about lateral dynamics. The aesthetics are always a derivative of the base-Civic, no independent consideration. Both are logical performance-extensions of a global mass-product.

[@hatefeulblast]

Hello there, From Iran with Love. We dont have any of these Beauties here, Absolutely non of what you kindly tested. But we are one of the few Resources of Money for The Great World. Love your Contents.

[@arda_]

I drive a GR Yaris and a good friend recently purchased a FL5 Type R. The Type R is simply put, exquisite. I think almost everything about it is a tad better than my GRY, except for the fact that it is FWD. FWD layout worked great for 1000kg 150hp hot hatches but at the current weight and power levels I don't like FWD.

[@peedeegt]

I’ll take Yaris every day. Save yourself £20k, then a couple of grand in mods and it’ll wipe the floor with the civic every day. And you’ve still got £18k left lol

[@jamesonslow]

Alcantara is indeed a light-sponge. Well observed! 👍

[@ssportugal]

Worth every penny, got myself one and don't regret one bit, you have to be a car enthusiast to like this car, otherwise you won't

[@paulomoniz3811]

Previous generations of the normal civic could be seen everywhere, the newest one I’ve seen once.

[@highpeaks6542]

Windshield rear view mirror … yeah mine too. Take a small dense piece of foam and stick it under the mounting plastic cover on the right side. Boom… gone..Buzzed at 4800/5300 rpm. Drove me nuts. Also replace the ADM module with the type S Acura. Ride and handling light years better. Even tracking it on a rough track. $200-300 depending if you get shop discount. Plug and play. No codes or any issues. So much better, and takes 15mins. Rev match can be defeated in screen menus. But why? It’s that good. As far as cost, I got it for msrp. The resale makes it worth it. Considering that just go buy it. There is nothing like it for the money.

[@beachboy0505]

Excellent video 📹 A sports car 🏎, not a hot hatch.

[@boots_n_coots]

Last of the old-school hot hatches… yes. I was worried that you might not “get it” James. I needn’t have been. (Your drive, however, does not demonstrate the ferocious levels of grip and speed this car is capable of).

[@b71071]

I wouldn't quite call it old school - it's more like a bridge between the classic small, light and buzzy NA hot hatches and the modern heavy, AWD, 'super' hatches.

[@crg92]

Old school? No way, too big, too heavy, turbo charged, loads of driver aids & multiple settings for everything. Only thing classed as old school would be the manual gearbox & fwd. Im not knocking the car, as a modern hot hatch this is as good as it gets, but to call it old school is just daft imo.

[@Flip_Angle]

Its not the cost of cars that's the issue. Its wage stagnation. If we account for inflation, many modern cars are actually _less_ costly.

[@MrLense]

This, the median UK wage is somewhere in the 37k range. At 50k this is unaffordable. The EP3 came out at £15k I can import JDM civics for about £10k and get more clout at meets.

[@Flip_Angle]

@MrLense True

[@infinite_azure_]

THIS!! Not enough people mention the real issue is wage stagnation

[@4Kandlez]

100%, and it's only going to get worse with planned cheap labour flooding into the West, driving down wages.

[@dontknowwhy186]

And the gap between the average person (let alone a poorer one) and a wealthy person is only ever going to increase. Man I love putting my money into those CEOs' and investors' pockets.

[@DB85-Trader]

regarding the steering, you need to disable lane keep assist, otherwise it steers itself, this is probably the resistance you were experiencing.

[@christophermay1229]

I had exactly the same buzz from the rear view mirror, took it back to the dealer and they fixed it. They removed it and packed it with put some adhesive tape and it stopped.

[@Thomas_2615]

Great review, I really enjoyed it, but not in a million years would I choose the Renault Clio RS over the Civic.

[@Aliens_Gonna_Get_Ya]

Almost $80K here Down Under… Will stick 2 my 20 year MX5 NC & Golf Mk5 GTi 3 dr manual… 👍🙂👊💥

[@AntoniusTyas]

Here in Indonesia if I were to order one I would have to part with at least IDR1.5billion. That's about £72k in the Blighty money. I really like it, and it's a real looker, but £72k is a very strong money for a hot hatch. I've heard the reason why FL5 CTR is so expensive are twofolds. One, they are now made in Japan so there are import taxes. And two, emission fines.

[@Spenny909]

Is there a general tax like in Singapore making all cars expensive to purchase? (I think people there spend £60k more for a car vs here.) Or is it just for imports of new cars from Japan? I'm wondering if you could buy second-hand within Indonesia. £72k is a lot for a Civic. There must be some good choices at that price point?

[@AntoniusTyas]

​​@@Spenny909our import tax is brutal. Cars built in ASEAN Free Trade regions are given 20% tax. Ditto CKD cars assembled here. Outside ASEAN, at least 30% tax, up to 90% for cars with engine capacity up to 3-litre and as high as 125% for everything else. That is why you will have to pay £500k base price for 296 GTB here in Indonesia. Someone actually spent £6million for a Pagani Huayra Roadster. Also at that price point I can get a 987.2 Cayman S and £30k of change to make it a proper road racer.

[@hathaway.1166]

lol in Vietnam it’s 100k DOLLARS😂 y’all had it easy

[@miklos1298]

@@Spenny909 Wow, I didn’t think there was a country where the CTR was more expensive than Ireland. In Ireland it starts from €85k…

[@SoulTouchMusic93]

i don't want to be disrespectful but i bet you could buy a village in indonesia for that kind of money.

[@bio4546]

Basically, this car is 15k away from being a good/sensible buy. Afaic, any hot hatch over 35k shouldn't be considered. In my country this Civic Type R goes for 55k euros and I've never seen one since they're on sale, they are simply out of reach from their potential buyers. The only brand new hot hatch you see regularly is the RS3, which appeal to a way wider public.

[@dariodario103]

I love my FK8...It got life sentence with me 😁👍

[@jirihorsky9600]

There is one new 4 cylinder honda that is much better value. The new Cb 1000 Hornet.

[@leviathan5207]

FACTS

[@shill6449]

A chap `round the corner still has his Civic FN2, in that glorious red !!!! It still looks like a concept car, to this day!!!!! I can remember it being derided by the `if it ain't German, it ain't any good' British motoring press, way back then. They scoffed that "it wont age well?' - truly got that wrong, didn't they now!!!!! The media's preference, the VW Golf, of course!

[@Android-vk8yh]

Well said I'm middle aged and have owned an Fn2 Type R GT for years, I've driven the later ones and they are great cars but you can't beat a naturally aspirated amazing sound and feel, with mods with over 200 BHP is all you need for fun on b roads with jdm reliability.

[@feefeee]

@shill6449 I still love mine, almost100k miles

[@user-ps3qk3xl2d]

Nearly 400K 👏🏼

[@keithjackson4985]

Some would laugh at this price, me included, but they are fantastic cars. We currently own it's twin, the Integra type S. We've owned quite a few performance cars. Nothing we've owned handles, as well as this thing. It hustles. I would take it over a Mustang, Camaro, 3 series, or even the Supra in our garage.

[@xyz-md2mv]

Nice shirt! 🙂

[@trueseeker262]

Ill buy these over any German knowing it will be perfect in 15 years time! No hybrid no auto sounds amazing.

[@muhammadmore]

Important to note the car has brake vectoring on the rear brakes to help with turn in

[@mikesanders5433]

It doesn’t matter that this is the best all round hot hatch you can buy today, that it’s far more practical, comfortable and capable than the vast majority of its rivals, or that it’s hilariously over-engineered and supremely reliable. Or that it’s a phenom as a drivers car, still a rocket and a truly old school keep it simple hot hatch. It’s a £50k Honda Civic, who’s mental enough to spend that. That’s serious sports coupe/car territory 😂

[@BCNeil]

They do hold value.

[@strider2175]

It's interesting how your review compares to Ben Thorn, of Gears and Gasoline; both hosts of that channel just finished a 2 week road trip through the US, hitting some of the best driving roads on offer. He seems to approve of the steering, but feels the car is far too wide.

[@TheYorkshiregolfbandit]

I bought a 2021 gti club sport and 18months ago going to take the plunge and chop it in for one of these The car is basically a daily, will never see a track, other half uses for work which is 2miles away from home and maybe 2 weekends a month I use to go play golf as I have a van for work test drove it and couldn’t justify the extra money now ours is tuned to the song of 450bhp and the gear box as well then absolutely not a chance!!

[@D4Z3Dii]

Had one of these on order when they launched, but i paid the refundable deposit before they announced the UK pricing. When it came back at £48K, plus luxury car tax it was well over £50k i cancelled and bought an E92 M3 as it was the much cheaper option to buy and run. and there's a sentence i never thought i'd say :D

[@MrLense]

50 grand for a civic is mental, even for a type R. UK median wage is somewhere in the £37k range. The golf R costs from £10k less, the price utterly defeats the spirit and concept of a hot hatch being “affordable”. At a time when the ep3 and fn2 are becoming rarer signs in our roads, more people look for those while they’re still cheap.

[@simondrew7346]

People stopped buying the affordable stuff and sadly went one step further and actively took the piss out of anyone daring to own a hatch with less than 250hp…see Suzuki Swift Sport for example, great fizzy engine, lovely chassis and handling…125bhp though…and instead people gravitated to the Focus STs, the Audi RSs etc…people want (almost) supercar level performance from everything these days which has led to the 50k+ hatch - the buying public wont entertain a 0-60 of 6 secs anymore. I’m not defending it by the way but we’ve ended up with the cars we’ve told the manufacturers we want 🤷🏼

[@northseawolf]

People don't buy cars anymore, which is the problem. £50k is meaningless, people think in X hundred a month nowadays. If you are happy dropping 25-30% of your monthly income on a car then bully for you...and the true value of cars is always reflected in the 2nd hand market...usually about 25-30% of the list price after a few short years and warranty expiration.

[@commanchi7]

The lifestyle of financing beyond ones means hasn't yet come home to roost for many.

[@tameracingdriver]

Good comment. I like the FL5 but it's too much. Having watched this review and carwow's review of the new Golf R, I'd take the Golf anyday of the week and I am not usually a fan of anything VAG. I can't help to think £50k for a FWD 4-pot turbo hot hatch is a big ask no matter how good it is, when you can pick stuff like Megane 250s up for £10k, or if you want something relatively new, something like an i30n for less than half the price.

[@dominicwalker4667]

At the moment these FL5s actually have good PCP rates and strong residuals which = about £150/pm less than a golf R and about £300/pm less than an M2/RS3. Used car interest rates are higher so what you save on purchase price you spend on interest + repairs as it will be out of warranty. Insurance etc also a lot higher on golf R / M2. So not all about the list price in this market unless you are a cash buyer. I think most would prefer to put savings etc into a house and pay monthly for a car.

[@michaelpegasiou4531]

Cars like this were affordable second hand what seemed not that long ago.

[@siubhan2047]

Oh how I long for the days of the first v-tecs. Mental engine in a fairly basic car and well affordable. Sure by today's standards the performance is pretty poor, but that NA screaming at 8000rpm cannot be beat, even now. It was never about the performance actually... but the way it made you smile. I'd happily pay money for a brand new first gen vtec today instead of ANY other modern car.

[@daddymulk]

Agree with you, going from 30ish grand to 50 doesn't even make sense even if it was loads faster than previous models but i paid 52k for house and now cars 50k 😮 yet you can have same fun in old Civic Type R or in any old Honda with B16 or K20 so why dont they make something of modern day less equipped Hot Hatch or new CRX with lower price

[@tameracingdriver]

James, I honestly love your honesty with your reviews, which I can relate to as I see you as a similar sort to myself as far as a driver is concerned. When you listen to some, you'd think they were the second coming of the christ. However, as you highlight, barely any better than the predecessor, and arguably you may prefer something else. Also, I like that you comment on the LSD not being the be all and end all (even as someone who wants to fit one to their own hot hatch) when it comes to putting down power, again, I've seen some people say these cars defy physics, so it's good to see you call out against it. There's a lot of down to earth realism here, so this was a very interesting and thought provoking review. Cheers!

[@vindevhunta4905]

Not a bad looking car❤ …manual transmission ❤ The price for vehicles these days is ridiculous..!!!

[@M4rky71]

With 90% of new car purchases on credit, it’s amazing how many people ignore the first rule of finance - never borrow money to buy a depreciating asset. Thanks to them, and their eagerness to have the latest driveway jewellery, there are £30k Abarth’s, £50k Civic’s, £60k Golf’s and £80k Land Rover 90’s! If you have to have it, save up and actually buy it. You’ll save £1000’s in interest, you’ll actually own something rather than an expensive idiotic lease, and you won’t look like you 8-years old who can’t hold your own water waiting for the next toy.

[@darrylappleby3983]

You still need to experience an fd2, the best civic type r ever made 😎

[@connornorth9998]

At 24 this is a bit of a dream car for me - though I still think given the price a nice FD2 or EP3 would be on my drive sooner. My family has a total of four Accord Type Rs and I kind of view this new as a new ACR rather than a CTR. At least they've finally fixed the styling though!

[@ChrisClioV6255]

Loved my old EP3 for a whole 2 weeks before it was stolen 😅 How about the JDM FD2 Type R? Absolutely love them 😍

[@I999-g2s]

Many reviews on this car, but I clicked because it’s important to know what James’ opinion is.

[@thebanditsix]

Fk2 is the best looking in my opinion.

[@AWMJoeyjoejoe]

One thing to remember is this Civic is a lot bigger than previous generations. Its closer in size to an accord than a civic really

[@neilbenton1152]

Crazy prices for cars today thank God I bought my yaris % finance £34 k in 2021 & I'll definitely be keeping it 😂

[@racingmaniacgt1]

Interesting conclusion, which is why i ended up with one upgraded from the previous Gen. I have one car before and still now(already have 25k miles on mine after 1.5 year). I thought the FK8 was fine and was making do with the bad infotainment. But when the opportunity came to change into the new one i was thinking about if there will be a chance to buy a old fashion manual sporty car in not too distant future and i thought this might be the last time so i did it. Pretty ok with the purchase even if much like the Fk8, there are still things i don't like.

[@thewaywardgrape3838]

The fuel tank issue: So manufacturers recieve the usage data and calculate the ideal fuel tank size for the expected customer. If the tank is small, that's due to the average user not requiring a larger tank. There's method behind the madness lol

[@martinparsons4238]

One of the biggest disadvantages that no one really talks about is that it’s only a 4-seater! That’s quite some compromise for what is a large family hatchback.

[@daniel-ino]

On my recomendation my family drives Hondas since 2005. My mother is at her 4th Honda Jazz. My Brother drives this gens hybrid Jazz. ( I drive a Toyota) and we are Germans :D Never any mechanical issues ever while there are plenty of major failings on German, Italian and French cars in 60 years of car ownership. However: Hondas(and Toyota to a lesser extent) have become so expensive that you really start to think if the extra cost upfront balances the potential savings in long term reliability. ESPECIALLY considering the MUCH higher parts replacements costs and inscurance costs in continental Europe at least. The economy of scale (and savings) that exists in the US for Japanese cars doesnt exist in Europe especially after Brexit destroyed many of the "local" production facilities. The Chinese are taking over the "affordable" market segments. It's really a shame. I really appreciate Japanese craftmanship and the general philosophy of build to last. I dont feel the chinese care for long term ownership but they understand many people struggle economically but would still drive something appealing.

[@photosmithy]

I used to own a UK DC2 Integra type R 20 plus years ago. I do like the look at this one as it doesn't seem too boy racer-ish and seems to be nicely specced. But £50k....

[@Android-vk8yh]

Yes, finally got to the point that it's probably the last of an ice type R So it will be an appreciating classic like all the type R's should be, It also worries much more expensive cars on a track which was always a type R point.