The 7.62x39 Soviet: Good fighting rifle cartridge for the US?

The former Soviet rifle cartridges 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 and their AK-series of semi-auto carbines have a devoted following in the US. The cartridges perform well on human targets and the carbines are known for reliability ... but are not known for accuracy. Are they a good choice for self-defense/home-defense use in the US?

[@Kinetic.44]

7.62x39 is devastating with hollowpoint, soft point and ballistic tip ammo

[@paradiseproductions846]

Even the original creator of the AK platform saw the shift from the intermediate 30 caliber 762x39mm to the later 5x45mm as a mistake, 5 decades later its still considered that 762x39 is for the most part a superior rifle cartridge. Makes me wonder how the world of small arms would look like if the USSR never changed caliber and simply upgraded the 762 in some way, maybe we would have seen favor for the 556 go away much more quickly.

[@dbmail545]

Wrong. MK came around to the SCHV concept when he saw what the 5.45x39 did on human targets.

[@michaelvanmastrigt7591]

Great video The 7.62x39 cartridge in either the AK or the SKS platform has been a great fighting rifle cartridge all across the globe ever since its inception. It works well for so many other countries, which basically proves that it would be effective anywhere, including the US. I think it’s good to own different rifles in different calibers, especially the popular calibers like all the ones you already mentioned.

[@tombland2681]

I love my SKS, it certainly has better hard barrier penetration than my AR does.

[@donwaterhouse9630]

I really appreciate how you make complicated things so un-complicated. Thanks again Mr. Fairburn for great information.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

One of Colin Powell's sixteen rules of leadership was - great leaders are great simplifiers. I try to boil things down because my mind does MUCH better with simple stuff!

[@headglitch7003]

Introduced in 1945 by Tula arsenal for use in the SKS rifle

[@OhioCruffler]

Nope. The 7.62x39 is the Soviet M43 cartridge. Finalized in 1943.

[@dbmail545]

​@OhioCruffler the M43 munition bears a huge similarity to the intermediate rounds developed by Vollmer around the time of the Molatov-Ribbentrop cooperation between Nazi Germany and the USSR. Can't be proved but quite a few people have remarked on that similarity.

[@NelsonZAPTM]

​@dbmail545 did you just make that up?

[@dbmail545]

@nelsonelectrical1972 that is from a book called "The Gun" about the development of the AK. I think the author was CJ Chivers but Ian from Forgotten Weapons has heard of Vollmer and the intermediate cartridges he designed.

[@NelsonZAPTM]

@dbmail545 ok, sounds fishy, though.

[@VailJohnson]

What about the venerable Mini- 30? I think that's worth talking about, there must be more than a few in use here.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I thought I mentioned the Ruger Mini-30. Colt also made some AR15s for the 7.62x39, so some US designs have been adapted to fire the round.

[@life_of_riley88]

The only issue with my mini thirty has been the poor quality Ruger barrel. It's simply not accurate, but I suppose for a "fighting rifle" it's serviceable.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

@@life_of_riley88 When using other Ruger rifles I have found their barrels to be good quality, so the Mini-30 barrels are probably OK. The Mini-14/30 design is an inherently less-than-accurate design. I have fired some very accurate ones, but a LOT of customized work ($$$) had to be done to get them there.

[@NelsonZAPTM]

​@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb early mini 30's had a .308 caliber bore instead of .311 Not sure about later models

[@dbmail545]

@nelsonelectrical1972 Rugers still use a tapered bore for all their 7.62x39 guns. The idea was for them to shoot .308" as well as .311" bullets. They do but a steady diet of steel-jacketed Com-bloc surplus ammo will cause unacceptable barrel wear.

[@scottdunn2178]

The fun is over when you can't buy an AKM for $250-$300 anymore... or 1000rd cases of Barnaul, etc for under $200 shipped. Those days are long gone.

[@hamspud35]

Thank you for your honest assessment.

[@alanhestley4469]

Excellent information. Thank you!!

[@littlewoody5539]

Looking forward to the next topic. 👍

[@davidstuck2866]

I stumbled across your channel tonight. I like your style, its straight up no non sense, and that is getting to be a rare commodity nowadays. this is the 4th video I have watched in a row. and I have not found anything that I disagree on. I am glad I stumbled across you and your channel. I hope it grows by leaps and bounds. P.S. I subscribed at the first video.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thank you!

[@roykiefer7713]

Another excellent video; thank you, Dick.

[@wendellbell6164]

Another great video. I learn something new on every video and you answer alot of different question I have had for years. Thank you

[@isaiahtafoya9972]

👏👏👏 thanks for another video sir

[@kennethkeefer9080]

Excellent series of fighting rifles sir thank you

[@dbmail545]

Different cartridges for different uses. SCHV cartridges like 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 have proved to be efficient man killers at the ranges that iron sights are useful at. 7.62x39 is very equivalent to 30-30 Winchester . A good hunting cartridge out to 250 yards and certainly capable of taking anything in the lower 48. Now that Hornady is making a subsonic 255gr hunting load, the .300BO really is a one-trick-pony.

[@johnlacasse8893]

I couldn't agree more with your assessments generally, at least so far through this entire series... I often recommend you as a reference source for people to check out. God bless and keep em coming...

[@RME1911]

I’m sure if I lived in another country that allowed me the abilities I have here, I’d say the 7.62x39 makes sense. But since I don’t the .223/5.56 makes sense. However, I don’t want to be on the business end of either.

[@64samsky]

Get armed people! Excellent video, sir.

[@Dennisthemenace40]

When I got my sks, ammo cost was about the same as it was for 9mm. Now, it’s almost double what 9mm runs. It’s a great round but any platform that uses it is outdated with the exception of the AK mag compatible AR’s. And even those are hampered by the lack of a last shot hold open device for the bolt. Ultimately, cost is the driving factor in any choice we face, performance is a distant second.

[@Hellbilly7.62]

X39 has turned into my go to round for years now for a just in case shtf and deer hunting. Hornady sst and remi corloc is extremly accurate and drops deer fast out of bolt action rifles ( now these are deer in far southeast and my shots are usually 100 yds are less)

[@frankwaltrip5807]

Thank you Sir

[@stevendonnalammar4422]

I have to agree with you on the AR versus AK topic, I like the 7.62x39 round for it's hitting power, however when it comes to the AK the thing feels clumsy and awkward to me, the only thing I like about it is the fact that it has a gas piston operating system which doesn't blow gas in my face since I'm left-handed.

[@MarkHansen1990]

I agree completely and suggest you get several to pass out and train with friends and family. Good Friday Sir.

[@johnhortonjr.9584]

I wish you would have talked about the Ruger Mini 30 in 7.62x39. Thank you

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I thought I mentioned the Mini-30 and the Colt AR15 in 7.62x39 as well. Both were good shooters.

[@BillMcGirr]

Looking forward to the pistol caliber carbine discussion.👍 Perhaps you or your viewers would know if any manufacturer made one in 357 sig?🤷‍♂️

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I seem to recall a .357 Sig carbine once, I'll ask around.

[@BillMcGirr]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I’d appreciate that. 357 sig or 10mm would probably be the only calibers I’d consider getting one in. 👍😊

[@Mrelindio42]

I live in a Free State and I'm going to stick with the Mini 14 because I am a lot more familiar with its operation. Good info on the AK that I didn't know. Looking forward to the PCC article!

[@hbetz5300]

Believe it or not, they make the Mini in 7.62x39 or 300 Blackout. Called the mini 30! 😁

[@Razor-gx2dq]

The most recent AK rifle variants are as follows, AK-12 5.45x39mm, AK-15 7.62x39mm and the AK-19 5.56x45.

[@ervc1]

It's my favorite round, but I went ar platform , very accurate so far and found a great stash of surplus dirt cheap.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Lucky you on the stash of cheap ammo. Lately, cheap ammo is about as difficult to find as a competent president.

[@sternstones4871]

My only complaint of the AK I have was the awfully short butt stock. After buying and installing a NATO length stock it is a much more comfortable rifle for my 6'2 tall self.

[@benjaminhenry5762]

Used to buy the SKS for $79. Ive still boxes of 7.62x39 from 1991 with the price sticker of $1.90/20 rds

[@watariovids1645]

I find I shoot way more 7.62x39 than 5.56. It's mostly that I find the guns they are chambered in more a more enjoyable "experience" so to speak. Either my SKS or my Zastava M70 are just more fun. I think If i had something like an M16a1 clone I would be much more fond of it but a modernized basic AR with the MLOK rails and flat top doesn't have much character to it. Would I rather the AR in a bad situation? I think so but that's mostly because its much lighter than the AK (especially once you stick on the optics rail) and much more modern than the SKS. If I am shooting for fun however the SKS is probably going to be pulled out first. The SKS in my opinion is still a very compelling option if you live in a state with stupid gun laws. You don't have to buy a goofy AR with weird features and when limiting to only 10 shots the stripper clips really arn't any slower than a mag change (if you had a 30 round mag and had to do it three times the mag change would obviously be dramatically faster). The gun is easy and intuitive to use with simple handling, extremely reliable, and incredibly rugged. The ammo is a little bit expensive more than 5.56 now days but its not dramatically more. It's not like you are shooting .308. I get that it will feel very expensive because it used to be absolutely dirt cheap even 3-4 years ago but If we are talking about right now vs historically when comparing it to 5.56 its not that bad. Availability is a wash they are both widely available and in almost every gun shop even if there is more 5.56.

[@TheRobman139]

Good video, as always. In this case, I have to respectfully disagree with your final conclusion. For some people the AR may be the better choice, but for many the AK may make more sense. First, as far as ammo availability is concerned, yes, 5.56 is more common and offers a wider assortment of projectiles. But 7.62x39mm, while not as cheap as it used to be, is now about the same price as 5.56, so in terms of the cost to run either platform, one does not have a significant advantage over the other. The Russian ammo ban has led to increased cost for 7.62x39mm, but a number of ammo manufacturers in other countries have stepped up and at least partially filled the gap. Availability of ammo really is not a problem for 7.62x39mm. So with the ammo issue basically a wash, why might the AK be preferable to the AR? Two reasons: 1. Most Americans live in urban or suburban environments. In that context, it is unlikely that anyone in an AOLAO situation, needing to participate in the defense of their neighborhood, is going to be shooting beyond 200 yards. Within 200 yards, 7.62x39mm is superior to the most common 55 or 62 grain 5.56x45mm loadings, and within 100 yards it hits harder than even the heavier 77 grain projectiles. Within that engagement envelope, the 7.62x39mm is going to have better terminal ballistics and better barrier penetration, and is less likely to have the bullet path altered by anything that comes between the bullet and the intended target. Yes, the 5.56x45mm is more efficient and holds up better at greater distances - especially out of a 20” barrel which is what I’d recommend for anyone who wants to go the AR route - but within the practical real-world fighting distances that most people would face if it ever came to that, the 7.62x39mm is a more effective round. 2. Then there’s ease of maintenance. There’s no denying that the DI gas system of the AR dirties up the works more quickly and requires more frequent cleaning than an AK. Not only that, but the AR requires more time to clean. Let’s face it: Most people don’t like having to clean their guns. Some people - maybe you’re one of them - actually do enjoy it, but most people are lazy that way. The AK is much more forgiving in that regard; its rugged simplicity is a big plus, especially for people who are new to firearms. To me, the main advantages of the AR platform is that it is easier to shoot accurately and it is faster to reload. Those are important advantages to be sure, but with practice decent accuracy can be achieved with an AK as well. The AR, particularly with a 20” barrel, is definitely superior for engagements past 200 yards, and I would advise people who would be facing distances like that as a matter of course in their particular area to go with the AR. But for many people the AK is going to be a more practical option.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Well-reasoned arguments. My preference for the AR/5.56mm isn't necessarily based on logic ... I just don't like the AK/7.62x39. The not-invented-here issue is probably a lot of my reasoning, and I like accurate rifles. even an inexpensive AR is generally much more accurate than an AK. Either platform would do fine in the scenario you lay out. You pays your money and makes your choice.

[@destroyingdadxx2274]

Try Americas AK, the Ruger Mini 30!

[@davidnancarrow6158]

I think the main draw of the 7.62x39 was cost. Back in the early 90s I bought a PRC SKS copy brand new in the box for less than $90 and the corrosive Soviet bloc ammo would go in the general direction of where you were pointing-maybe a 5-6 MOA combination. Finding proper reloadable brass and good bullets cut it to about 2 MOA which for a battle carbine isn't bad all things considered. Fast forward to now and it's interesting to see the price of the 7.62x39 go up while the 30 Blackout prices are dropping, nearly at parity now. In America I think the best buy is the AR platform in 5.56. The ammo is pretty cheap and shoots well from even the budget AR's which are lighter than AK/SKS platforms, plus they fit the shooter better ergonomically.

[@eatdafat7101]

The import restrictions are driving the prices way up.

[@wizardofahhhs759]

This might be a dumb question but why not take something like a .270 or .308 and design it to tumble like a 5.56? With the bullet technology we have today they should be able to make any caliber bullet do whatever they want it to.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

When Dr. Fackler first tested NATO rounds, he found one W. German (at that time) round that blew apart during the tumble, just like the M193, and he said it created very impressive wounds. It used a thin steel jacket with a copper wash and seemed to be brittle. In calibers much larger than the 5.56mm, the bullets invert without breaking apart because their jacket is strong enough to stay together. Rather than designing a bullet to break when it inverts, just use conventional expanding/fragmenting bullets which cause damage without needing to invert.

[@dbmail545]

Tumbling is a matter of aspect. The length to width ratio. Small caliber bullets do not have to be nearly so heavy. Why SCHV cartridges are nearly universal now for militaries.

[@theoriginalOSOK]

Dick, I believe that the 7.62x39 was actually introduced in 1945 in the SKS and did see some action at the end of WWII. Then, two years later the AK-47 was introduced.... and basically made the SKS obsolete in the USSR... but China took the design because it fit their doctrine perfectly.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

You are probably correct. I found one source which dated the round's beginnings to 1943, but it claimed it didn't see action in WWII. These things are tough to pin down sometimes.

[@NelsonZAPTM]

​@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb the round was developed in 1943, hence M43. The sks was adopted in 1945.

[@bjdog42]

I agree, can't stand the ergonomics of an AK or SKS. I'm not in love with the AR15 either but I've trained enough with them to use one. I had an M1A long before I got an AR & M1A's "fit" me better. But they'll all work if you train well with them.

[@brianc9374]

I like the sks for what it is. The ak....not so much

[@netravler1]

Agreed.

[@Cruiser777]

I got two rifles with that Cartridge and there are great rifles, the only thing I don't like about it pretty heavy. But they do run like a rape Ape. They have some companies making brass casing 762 × 39. Max ammo there's good and cheap. And Iike always thanks for the The insights.

[@tommcqueen3145]

👍👍

[@danielmacdonald8358]

In the modern day the cost of 762x39 just doesn't have the appeal anymore it's becoming cost prohibitive to have an AK. Don't get me wrong they're fun to shoot and can definitely get the job done but for cost-effectiveness it's going the way of the dodo

[@GarrisonNichols-ow1hb]

👍 I 100 percent agree. The AR15 in 5.56 is the rifle you want when the SHTF.

[@WastelandArmorer]

Its not really any worse than 5.56 from what I’ve seen

[@earth7551]

​@@GarrisonNichols-ow1hb unreliable ar

[@moreme40]

I remember at gun shows in 1999-2000 they would have pallets full of Wolf brand 7.62’s for next to nothing. Those were the gold ol days

[@WastelandArmorer]

@@moreme40 i should have been stacking ammo instead of learning shapes and colors.

[@OhioCruffler]

Have you looked at the 300 HAM'R yet? Basically a stretched 300 BO that works in ARs, can be made from 223 brass, and gives about 300 fps over the BO. It's still fairly new and very niche, but it's probably the best fighting cartridge for the AR platform.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I will touch on the HAM'R in the last video in this series, the "other" AR cartridges. Most of the "other" cartridges fall from the wayside and become orphans pretty quickly. The HAM'R is supported by factory ammo, so it may last.

[@dbmail545]

The .300BO is a one-trick-pony. Only useful as a subsonic cartridge for the AR platform. Boosting its MV is kind of missing the point.

[@unluckycharms9017]

My fighting rifle is an AR in 762X39. I’m sure some of it was luck but it’s sub MOA at 100 with Tula ammo. I realize that sounds like bullshit or a miracle it’s true. I’ll never sell the damn thing lol.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

A well-organized AR is perhaps the most accurate military rifle ever made, no matter the caliber.

[@unluckycharms9017]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb True, I think a lot of people think the 7.62x39 round is inherently inaccurate (I did too) but it’s definitely a lot more the AK that deserves that reputation. Put a stainless steel match grade barrel in an AR and that round is just as accurate as 5.56 apparently.

[@Victoratify]

The 7.62x39 cartridge and weapons for it were adopted for service in 1949 as a single complex.

[@308driver]

20 mill ars produced in the last 20 years alone... Jussayn

[@brockhowell2296]

I think AKs look a lot cooler than ARs do, typically, but just looking at PSA you can get an AR for about $500 whereas their cheapest AK is over $200 more and that seems to be the norm. An AK will definitely get the job done, but it doesn't seem to be as practical when all things are considered.

[@RoadTraveler]

Bump

[@chaunceyhart1346]

No it’s not a sniper rifle, but it’s not meant to be.

[@ErinBunny24]

7.62x39 not a sniper round? Is it not used in snipers? 😂 It is effective out to 400 yards. That is a longer distance than most can accurately shoot. So the sniper performance out of an AR doesnt matter when most people cant even train to shoot that far anyway. Most live in a city and there arent many ranges that go out that far.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

In good rifles the 7.62x39 can be an accurate round, but its trajectory limits it as a long-range cartridge.

[@NelsonZAPTM]

You can snipe with anything you like, but accepted accuracy from 7.62x39 is 150mm at 100m. (6 moa in cheeseburgers) Yes, you can get better accuracy. No it's not a "sniper" round unless you're a gamer.

[@RoadTraveler]

Algorithm

[@GarrisonNichols-ow1hb]

I never believed the myth about the AKMs durability and reliability. The KZbin channel Inrange TV has proven in their mud test that the AK chokes up from heavy wet mud getting into the action. Also the 7.62x39mm has less range than the AR15s 5.56 NATO. There might be more AK type rifles in the world but not on this side of the planet. The AR15 is still king and is the most popular rifle in America. The AR15 is just such a superior rifle in my opinion. If you're going to stock up on ammunition and get one type of gun for you and your family I highly recommend an good AR chambered in 223 Remington/ 5.56 NATO.

[@brassmonkey7566]

?? Is that a little dog on your forehead ???

[@user-ci2mn1oy3w]

oh hell no! You'd lose the 22lr conversion unit. which the N guard uses a lot for training on indoor ranges. the guys MISS with 50,000 rds for every hit that they get. Most hits are randome accidents and over 90% occur within 150 yds. Most hits are peripheral in nature, so the extra weight of a .30 cal bullet is just wasted effort and expense to lug around, make and move into the combat zone.

[@samdone2900]

5.56 ball loads are definitely more effective then equivalent 7.62x39 ball loads. The main draw for me was cheap ammo but 7.62 recoils more and the platforms ergonomics are not as good. Reloading components are not as cheap as 5.56 but can transform the cartridge into a very deadly round. Loads like the SST or Barnes make the caliber very effective for hunting and SD. A good muzzle brake is a necessity for a 7.62x39 Russian. I like one that compensates and has flash hiding properties.

[@sirdanoman]

A muzzle brake is a "necessity" on 7.62x39?! Not a chance. My skinny little kid learned and shoots the best with a 10 inch barrel AK. Sans muzzle brake.

[@michaelestrada2772]

Do you reload for both the 7.62x39 and the 5.56/223? Which one do you prefer? I only own and reload for handguns but I’ve been considering getting a rifle as well. I imagine the 7.62 with its wider bore and heavier bullet would make a more versatile round (hunting and home defense).

[@LUVDOGS1954]

Please define "more effective". In accuracy or wound damage?

[@Gary-kc9hx]

​@@sirdanomanOpinions and Bungholes!

[@samdone2900]

@@sirdanoman I’m not saying the recoil is unpleasant. If you want to get fast split times, and tight double taps then a compensator or muzzle brake will help you shoot faster and tighter.

[@caseybrown5183]

No.

[@arthurjenkins6935]

✋ "Promosm"

[@bobburges3654]

What a waste of time! AK>>AR.

[@davidno1minton997]

Not,to,smart,man

[@Gary-kc9hx]

Stop bragging on yourself😅