The Additions to Shadows of Change 4.2

[@ricardomora9913]

I will say that if CA did this shit from the beginning with the DLC, they could have saved themselves a lot of crap.

[@joaogabrieldiniz3299]

Yes, but honestly thank god they didn't otherwise nothing would change and they are in dire need of a near complete restructuring

[@spamstabber]

Well done captain hindsight.

[@Scorpion122178]

this still isn't addressing the real fundamental problems with the game. WH3's issue isn't a lack of content.

[@therasco400]

The Shadows of change DLC problem WAS a lack of content. I also agree that there are problems with the way the game plays though. @@Scorpion122178

[@Chtigga]

They tried to test how far they could go with the fans but they failed dramatically.

[@BigBoneBusiness]

The "no Hag Mothers" and "no beaks" part really, REALLY sounds like Games Workshop putting in the boot and keeping CA from doing what they want. Darktide had a bug that let you make your character shirtless, and it was only fixed and removed because GW forced Fatshark to fix it.

[@Ztygs]

Well, GW obviously knows you can't go into battle without armor. That's why they made the Repentia-wait...

[@FlipityGibett]

No one who plays 40K or AoS likes Tzangors. They get packed into value boxes and they are bad sculpts. Can’t imagine that keeping them looking cool matters to GW.

[@runeh3022]

Kind of happy they are restraining themselves and not making the game a WAP type of close that grows to detatched from the actual lore etc. It ceases to be Warhammer if nobody reasonable keeps a firm hand on the tiller.

[@Genesee.Billiam]

@@LordBruuh yes but it looks like the faction was made up with The Old World tabletop in mind so they are probably tying them to that especially as the TOW are now releasing rules and miniatures and they don’t want it to be divergent 🤷‍♂️

[@TheOriginalPoon]

@@LordBruuh everything in the game has to go through GW first. If lore is getting thrown out the window, its GW calling it. The "creative liberty" came really with campaign mechanics and game design rather than actual factions or independent units and characters. If Hag Mothers aren't coming, and its flat out stated they won't, it is way more likely than not that thats a GW condition and not CA's call.

[@lorenzosacchetto6379]

The absence of Hag Mothers and Ungol units, as well as them not putting beaks on Tzaangors, reeks of GW enforcement

[@nikollasassumpcao8006]

Its literally written, it was bc of GW "... we work closely with The Warhammer Studio to ensure that the content for this era of Warhammer is as faithfully represented in our game as possible." And "...But as ever, we aim to ensure that whatever we do add to Total War: WARHAMMER III is as authentic an experience of the world of Warhammer as possible."

[@JopieA]

Remember, you're not a true WH fan if you don't hate GW

[@shinkenrock]

lol true@@JopieA

[@lorenzosacchetto6379]

preach @@JopieA

[@AintImpressed]

Yes, it is because of GW

[@KazeKoichi]

"The best one of all, Tretch Craventail" - LegendofTotalWar, February, 2024.

[@pzatotalwar]

Don’t you know Tretch is Legend’s favourite Skaven lord that buffs up his favourite Skaven unit, StormVermin😄.

[@timonousiainen354]

who has made sucking an art form

[@Lockerus]

It was most likely written by Richard Aldridge, but passed through a PR or community person. Some people are just not good written communicators, or they need a pass to make sure it toes the company line.

[@squashiejoshie200000]

Personally expect the intro and first paragraph to be written by him, then the rest of it to be written by pr people or compiled from dev comments.

[@johnosburn6814]

@@michaelcoward1902no, toe is correct. Toe-ing as in tip-toeing on a line as to not fall on either side on it, to avoid taking a strong stance. It can also mean to push a line with your toe, to go to the limit of what you can say within a set of confines.

[@flopus7]

Makes sense. You hire PR people to handle your communications. And your use of toe the line is correct. It is not tow.

[@Lockerus]

@@michaelcoward1902 Bruh

[@Th3_Raven]

The Hag Mother lords thing feels very GW rather than CA. I'm just hoping that the new kislev units include an artillery unit at Tier 3, so they have an option earlier in the tree and more non Alliance Recruited variety than just Little Groms. Given the hag heroes and Ostankya that already shoot ranged options from their cauldrons, an artillery troupe of hags shooting dark magic explosions would be fun. This blog update gives me hope, but the value will only be seen when it actually releases.

[@funnyfish1453]

I'd be happy with a Kislevite equivalent of great cannons.

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

@@funnyfish1453 that wouldn't really fit the theme of the DLC very well. with Cathay they've very clearly tried to fit the additional units within the general theme of fitting Yuan Bo, I'd expect the same to happen for Tzeentch and Kislev where the extra units will be to fit the Changeling and Ostankya respectively. so I'd bet on us getting more monsters for Kislev. more stuff themed around their beasts and wilder magic. certainly not some industrial artillery pieces.

[@ryandow6953]

​@funnyfish1453 a grand grom perhaps?

[@Th3_Raven]

@@Eclipsed_Embers I can dare to dream of Hag Artillery, or potentially something like a reskin of poison wind mortars with hags that throw flocks of crows.

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

@@Th3_Raven now that sounds more realistic, more like something we might actually get looking at how Hags are already implemented I'll admit that I myself was anticipating that we'd basically get a Kislev flavour Casket of Souls

[@Nightmare_52]

i frequently have foot heroes standing alongside my infantry as helpful anchor figures with area buffs, i expect the gate master works in the same way and i cant wait to use them as i like infantry armies

[@KnightofBretonnia]

Honestly i'm really optimistic with these changes and the fact they're bringing the quantity (and hopefully quality) of units and lords up to the standard of race packs set by Chaos Dwarfs. i'm also grateful for modders who completely kickstarted my interest in the game again while we were waiting for the SoC update and Thrones of Decay update. The Old World map has been so much fun to play on, I hope Legend gives it a go!

[@TiMANosaurusRex]

He played a Queek Livestream on the Old World mod a couple months ago!

[@KnightofBretonnia]

@@TiMANosaurusRex I'll have to check it out!

[@boyanpenev9822]

For me, that's basically a return to the (slightly increased) prices from the start of game 3, i.e. Chorfs vs Tomb Kings and Ogres vs Norsca. I'm generally in the "waiting on sale unless it really blows them away." That said, considering pretty much the only lore on Kislev in the "time of Karl Franz" is Realm of the Ice Queen for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and it DOES have multiple named hag mothers, I wonder what GW is up to.

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

GW seems to basically be completely changing Kislev's lore into something pretty much unrecognizable from the old lore the first warning sign was the absolute fixation on bears in TWW3 at launch then there's been some lore tidbits that have basically tried to shove the Ungol vs Gospodar conflict under the rug by having almost all of the units we already have be mixed groups last I heard the Lore of Hags wasn't even a thing anymore so I'm quite pleasantly surprised that we're even getting that if GW is now saying there's only 1 Hag Mother, I guess there's only 1 Hag Mother...

[@vallar57]

While there are multiple named Hags, they aren't *lord* material. Hags help their community, treat with spirits and guard Kislev, but they don't have any authority beyond the respect they naturally command from people grateful/scared of them. An Ungol ataman would be a more fitting lord for the theme, with Hag heroes - which is my guess what we are getting. Basically similar reason why Empire only has Gelt as wizard lord and no generic ones.

[@bongo2282]

I like that they are adding new Lords, Heroes and Units. Seems fair in scope and size aswell. BUT i am disheartened on the fact that they think its only about these in-Battle things not not actual stuff on the campaign map. Apart from Yuan Bo honestly the campaign map mechanics are very lackluster in my opinion. I had hoped they would add more on that side of the DLC.

[@jedimasterdraco6950]

I believe they acknowledged that this was an issue with SoC and they were looking at making the next campaigns better, plus making all three campaigns tied a bit closer together. I do agree things were a bit lacking in comparison to some of the glories we enjoyed in Game 2.

[@willl676]

I enjoyed the Changeling's campaign, however simple the mechanics were. Ostankya was a very meh rehash of Grom's though.

[@monsieurwolf6122]

Yeah, they need to innovate more. Using old mechanics in fine as a small addition where relevant, but there needs to be something unique for each faction that we haven't seen before when it comes to main mechanics.

[@MDMDMDMDMDMDMDMDMD]

​@@willl676sure. Hax are fun, but you aren't really playing Total War as The Changeling.

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

​@@willl676think is theres no chalange, not beocurs you cant die, but beciurs, aslong as yiu dont care for sceams, you culd jsut wait for cults to spread

[@freyrTV]

I like to play every faction once in realms of chaos. Seeing the story from each of the perspectives is cool. And the portals aren't that bad anymore. You can skip the battles with the waves for the most part as well so its allright.

[@Dianbler]

Same, the DLC campaigns are fun to go through at least once. The map is not that bad when you don't have to worry about rifts.

[@benderbendingrodriguez6375]

@@Dianbler I don't understand why CA just doesn't make a sand box mode for that map like modders have. Same goes for the Vortex map in TWW2. It would easily increase the replayability. Especialy if you can play as the other races and factions from previous games like in Immortal empires.

[@clockwark]

What would you say is the best way to experience RoC? I've got about 1,300 hours in WH3. I've only finished RoC once, and it was with the Changeling, which was a massive disappointment when I realized there's really no special objective for him there. I haven't played him on IE yet, but I get the sense that his RoC campaign is just a dumbed down version of his IE campaign. But I digress-- I want a classic RoC campaign, but I keep getting bored. N'kaari is too easy and I just wasn't having fun with Khorne or Tzeentch. I'm not interested in the Cathay, but if you have a recommendation other than that, I'd love to hear it!

[@Dianbler]

@@clockwark just don't play base game factions. The challenging is better at inmortal because it's the exact same campaign. Play warriors of chaos or chorfs

[@atlasstoned]

@@clockwarkchaos dwarfs are great in roc

[@DrRipper19]

I play the realms of chaos campaign if I hate the IE start position of the lord (see: mother ostankya), or if I only want to do a short campaign in the areas of the map that are more fleshed out by it. And then of course there are packs like the chaos dwarfs and champions of chaos that have their own special campaign mechanics on that map that I wish they'd port over to IE. So basically for the same reason that I would have played a Vortex campaign in Warhammer 2.

[@SereglothIV]

I actually played Vortex quite a lot. I'd even say it was a similar amount to Mortal Empires. Mainly when I was playing in Lustria/Southlands. And the narrative DLC campaigns were pretty good there. Never bothered with the base game Vortex race and rituals though, except for the first (and only) time I completed it. Quite similar to the Realms of Chaos really - challenging, unique experience for the first time you play it, but an annoying slog if you're ever to repeat it.

[@DrRipper19]

@@SereglothIV Yeah I really liked the Zanbaijin stuff for instance but honestly there was no reason why it couldn't be ported over to IE. They had a reason for it in WH2 (people without WH1 not having ME) but there's really no reason now.

[@TheRetifox]

More units are welcome, and I am happy for FLC Lord's comeback. However, I thought we would get more about race changes. The best part of WH2 DLC for me, was free re-works for races.

[@gHGhej]

I think that is the true issue right here, mixing FLC, DLC and updates together imo.

[@PingachuWarham]

Yeah but the 3 factions in SoC didn't really need huge reworks, just polishing and QoL which is what we got

[@Hurricayne92]

@@PingachuWarham Yea all 3 were new addition in WH3 it seems way to early to be doing reworks on them. Thrones of Decay will be telling tho with both Empire and Dawi, 2 races that are in sore need of reworks.

[@SunlessSage]

​@@Hurricayne92 Empire doesn't need that big of a rework. The imperial authority and prestige system mainly just needs some tweaks and probably some more uses for those two resources. The Dawi though, they definitely need a proper rework. And honestly, Nurgle could use some tweaks too. Currently their early game is just annoying.

[@TheRetifox]

@@PingachuWarham Tbh, as for Cathey and Tzzenth, yeah. But Kislev is not exactly in a good spot for a new-ish race. Their tech tree is poop, Boris and Kostaltyn are absolute jokes, and their economy is not exactly prime as well.

[@patrickswayze3086]

Lord Kroak, a free legendary hero, came bundled with Gor-Rok, a free legendary lord

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

Kroak actually came alongside the DLC before Gor-Rok. Kroak was released alongside Tiktaq'to and the Prophet and the Warlock DLC. Gor-Rok released alongside the Hunter and the Beast and just happens to start with Kroak as part of his faction effects.

[@superkawaii792]

Kroak and the free legendary lord was also released along with a Bretonia rework, skaven under city rework, free unique lord mount, tweaks to vampire counts, new battle maps. Again. All free. This time they are giving us a sledge…

[@jabool5605]

@@superkawaii792 it blows my mind how much they dumped on hyenas and pharoh but somehow the support for their biggest total war game is left to a skeleton crew, not to mention the poor historical fans who want medieval 3.

[@Tundrawrath]

​@@jabool5605 Corporate greed my Friend

[@RambleOn07]

This isn't corporate greed, it's just incompetence. ​@@Tundrawrath

[@jacobsampsonis7782]

10:45 I know tretch is a meme but if you confederate clan mors you can have some really beefed up stormvermin. Plus his ability is pretty good in tandem with the clanrat summons. He gives a bunch of leadership with it and lets enemies blob up bigger and longer as they make their way to your line

[@Azhalan]

I'll wait until 4.2 arrives. If it features said additions and runs smoothly, I'll likely buy it.

[@marcgw496]

Most likely not going to “run smoothly”. Every patch introduces loads of bugs.

[@jonatanpersson82]

I agree, this additions is a more justified amount of content for the price

[@SpiceCh]

​@@marcgw496 idk why pessimist gather around legendoftotalwar like flies to a shit, but here you are

[@marcgw496]

@@SpiceCh not a pessimist, just realistic expectations. I’m optimistic when it’s warranted.

[@emetanti]

Wait till the next DLC before even considering giving them a penny.

[@AROSP]

I think the positives of this update far outweigh any perceived negatives. SoC was far too light on content, but this update redresses that balance. The bigger thing, imo, is that CA are committing to a minimum offer for DLCs going forwards, a guaranteed amount of lords, heros, and units. I'm impressed with CA here, and happy that the community has made a huge positive impact on TWW.

[@enochianwolf]

shill

[@robosoldier11]

Maybe continue that positive impact and not do the obvious which is buy the DLC cause it got an update. Thats what they expect and we should avoid handing them our dollars until they continually perform quality content as opposed to just throwing money at them cause they gave us a few shiny additions. Exercise some restraint.

[@voyager9959]

​@@enochianwolf Really digga? An objectively reasonable and not unhinged basement take by the OP, and all you do is drop a 'shill'. What a bot.

[@urdaanglospey6666]

@Arosp: Just a clarification. That is NOT what that blog says. It says that DLC's of a similar scope to SoC will receive those amounts. They definitely left themselves an out to release smaller (or larger) DLC's that do not meet that standard. As long as they're priced appropriately, though, that wouldn't be a problem. BUT, given their record, we'll see ;) That said, yes, I'm impressed that they actually do seem to be honestly changing and trying to fix their errors. I'm hopeful. If it releases playtested and polished, I'll be excited.

[@enochianwolf]

@@voyager9959 talk about a bot, ops comment read like the CEO of CA theirself wrote it

[@khankhomrad8855]

RoC is almost berable with the mod that nullifies its main gimmicks (no race nor chaos portals). In that context, the unique mechanics for each of the chaos races added in WH3 and Kislev do work quite well.

[@srtfrostbite]

As legend said, the biggest thing missing here is race specific (not faction specific) mechanic changes. Especially on the Kislev side, the race for followers is pretty barebone for Katarin and Kostaltyn, not even considering the poor fit it has for Boris. It is in dire need of a major shake up, especially if it meant more specialization of units/heroes/lords between each Kislev legendary lord. Without such changes, the DLC doesn't still feel complete. When will be the next time we'll have a chance to change Kislev mechanics? Two years from now? Even later? Never? Edit. Edited for clarity.

[@brightestlight9462]

yeppppppppp

[@BlizzardAcolyte]

The Blessed Dread about to have themselves a GRAND old time decorating these new large units/mounts with arrow shafts and shoeprints

[@Serviner]

Seems definitely like an approvement, id probably still recommend waiting on a sale, but at least its better than before. Now lets hope the free lord is any good lol

[@SereglothIV]

Latest FLC lords for WH2 were pretty darn good (Imrik, Thorek) with amazing campaign mechanics. But so were the DLCs for WH2, and now we've got what we've got, so I guess we just have to wait and see.

[@kabelheinz5721]

Regarding the value question ... i think its not quite there but its definetely better and im now willing to purchase it.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

I think the problem is we're still just comparing it to the pricing of WH3 DLC. The problem is the WH2 DLC was priced far more appropriately. A lord pack used to come with a FLC faction and would be about £8 - often with a 10% preorder discount. So more like £7.20 The new DLC model is basically a 1.5x lord pack, so should be priced at 1.5x too. Which would be about £12. But they're charging about 50% more than that, that's the problem to me. They should have 4 lords / factions to be £20.

[@Ceiling_Gato]

Ostankya needs to be able to recruit animal units (bats, bears, spiders, wolves). Also more Akshina units (lord, hero, melee unit, elk riders maybe). I still hope for a future Ungol DLC

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

that entire section of them setting expectations (no Hag lords, no beaks for Tzaangors, and no focus on the Ungol vs Gospodar split) reeked of GW just saying no. any focus on Ungols/Gospodars basically has no hope. pretty sure the new lore GW's been making for The Old World has basically all of the units be mixed groups from both Ungols and Gospodars now anyway.

[@Grooviebones]

What you said about the DLC coming alongside and supporting major changes to the races and infrastructure of the game resonated a lot with me. Mainly because I was a big fan of Kislev in theory but on launch and even now they are a blatantly unfinished race with massive holes in their roster meant to be filled by DLC. SoC came out and I realized that Kislev was never going to be finished because alongside not reworking any of the nonsensical Kislev mechanics they made a sub par and unfinished LL that didn't even complement Kislevs core. It felt like a slap in the face to people like me, waiting for the core roster of Kislev to get finished instead watching them release an "alternate playstyle" focused lord that doesn't even work. I hope they consider that these DLC's are supposed to supplement ongoing development of the game and the fixing of long outstanding issues, I don't buy these DLC's to forget about the unfinished parts of the game, I buy them to support development. So that long outstanding issues like Norsca's rework and Empire updates will EVENTUALLY get looked at.

[@bluespart]

I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm happy they've already set expectations with that short "what's not happening" list and that there's now a clear list of what is to be expected in the three lords DLC packs (you know, until they quickly retire that type of pack). We've been shown some interesting stuff for Cathay, but I feel like it's the Kislev side of things (which of course they're showing last) that's gonna be make or break for the update. It's a step in the right direction, but the patch itself will be what matters.

[@urdaanglospey6666]

It was last in the original discussions as well. Then, I'd assumed (and think I was proven right) that it was because they knew it would be mostly disappointing. I'm hoping they're just sticking to the order because the order's been set and not because, again, they know it'll be disappointing. Time will tell.

[@Ratich]

13:02 Chaos Lord of Tzeentch and Exalted Hero of Tzeentch. They exist in the lore don't know about tabletop but that's the most obvious ones to me.

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

I've seen lots of people saying that those are probably being saved for a later Egrimm von Horstmann DLC (and CA probably has such a thing planned, he's a popular character and CA was clearly setting up for the eventual Monkey King DLC, even setting some expectations for what kind of unit the Monkey Warriors would be, so these races are certainly planned to get further DLCs) I'd bet on us getting something like a Tzaangor Bray Shaman instead (which'll also set up expectations pretty neatly for the extra lord and hero for the other 3 gods).

[@Dr.AvenVon]

@@Eclipsed_Embers but then there's the question what role the bray shaman should fill. we allready have multiple spellcaster heroes and lords for tzeentch, why even more now?

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

@@Dr.AvenVon Tzeentch is very much the caster race, frankly I'm not expecting more unit roles for them, I think they have units for pretty much every purpose I can think of, I'm expecting flavourful stuff. as for what specifically it could bring, well it coult bring the Lore of the Wild to the Tzeentch roster (dipping into the other Beastman lores Beasts, Death, and Shadows are also options), a lore that is notably excluded (I assume by mistake) from even the Blue Scribes and to the Beastmen they could bring the Lore of Tzeentch while I can understand why people want the Tzeentch melee generic characters (and I do fully expect them to come... later... in an Egrimm van Horstmann DLC) I feel the need to point out that Tzeentch is the god of magic, there is no reason to hold back from giving Tzeentch more spellcasting lords/heroes. their army abilities even rely on casting spells and therefore would not be usable at all if you brought a melee lord and no spellcasting heroes, which leads me to suspect that there's a possibility that Tzeentch might just never get a pure melee lord just because that would allow a Tzeentch player to accidentally mess up their army by locking themselves out of their army abilities, this might even be the reason that Aekold (who would probably fit better as a LL than the Changeling) was implemented as a LH instead of a LL).

[@prinstyrio0]

That was gonna be my bet, since each monogod misses that version for WoC. It'll be interesting to see what they do for Khorne though who obviously does not have wizards. I really hope they aren't skipping him and adds something new, preferably supportive lord/hero rather than yet more selfish killies. Could be adding the beastmen versions of the monogods as well, a Khorne minotaur hero could be cool to add a monster there and then a beastman lord. That said that leaves Valkia short and I really hope GW lets them pull some of the supportive heroes used in AoS, I believe some did exist in End Times like Wrathmongers, so here's hoping. Would just make Khorne more interesting to play having active abilities for your army or a hero specialized in dealing with wizards.

[@Booklat1]

​@@prinstyrio0for khorne I can see them doing more variations of their melee heroes, instead of sorcerers and their laws of magic, like exalted heroes with halberds or dual-wielders.

[@Koyu_Ruh]

I can imagine the conversation that got us here: "Yeah uh we had to lay off developers so the higher ups can continue to increase their paychecks despite lower income from sales due to lacklust and less content" "Won't that put you in a downward spiral as you will lack the manpower you had before to produce the content on top of making your work force focus on multiple projects at once?" "Nah! Don't be silly, couldn't happen to us. Let's just try to threaten our customers instead and attempt to guilt trip them into buying our stuff regardless. Blame it on inflation!" "Brilliant Sir! Can't see how that could backfire!"

[@simonbas6]

Having read the blog post already, still remains to be seen if its worth. I like whats on offer for cathay though, could be fun

[@PeterButchens]

Colour me surprised they actually listened. I might even buy this DLC now. Especially with the additions to Cathay (even if some of them are just reskins) to make them less bland.

[@DannyJP29]

I'm playing mother ostenkya in the realms of chaos campaign and having fun. Because at least she's in kislev then.

[@sokar_rostau]

2:58 Another very basic thing that should be kept in mind with leaks is that plans change. Hag Mother Lords might have been something that were suggested in a meeting on Monday afternoon, the idea is scrapped on Tuesday morning after talking to GW, and a person who attended the Monday meeting but didn't get the Tuesday memo leaks outdated info on Tuesday night. 10:45 Is it really insane to point out that most of the Legendary Heroes are, in fact, better than Tretch? 22:50 It sounds like he's meant to be used between the melee and ranged lines, going where needed to add his buffs in the same way that Necromancers have their out-of-combat regen aura. I think a lot of people tend to forget that each unit in every roster is designed with a purpose, even if it's just fodder, and that the game is intended to be played with armies of mixed units that compliment each other to maximise the faction's strengths while minimising their weaknesses. Just because you can use some wizards mounted on warhorses to tank half an army, doesn't mean that you should. They have those combat stat's so they can survive and escape low tier enemies, or survive long enough against high tier enemies until help arrives. [Doomstacks are fun but if you make 10 doomstacks to steamroll the map on Legendary and then complain the game is too easy it's on you. I'd like to see more NPC factions rarely producing them because suddenly discovering that Luther's army is nothing but Terrorgheists and Necrofex's is always fun (just not too frequently)].

[@Soggy2002]

The missing sentence from the Moon Bird (23:37) - "Grand Cathay haven’t had any flying single entity monsters in their roster before now, so new strategies will become viable in battle"

[@klonvomhaus]

I like that you are keeping track of what was correct and what wasn't, instead of spreading misinformation for the sake of the Algorithm.

[@blakeares3424]

You probably know by now Legend, but they stated what the new lore and flc will be in the email they sent out today. The lore will be the lore of hags and the flc will be an ice sled for Katarin.

[@MatteV2]

Imrik the GOAT. If we get anything close to Imriks FLC release, imma be a happy player

[@Dianbler]

Not a word of reworks, thought. Let us hope the Empire and Dwarf reworks are coming

[@PropheticShadeZ]

i dont think they understand how much focus the community wants on campaign mechanics, and how silly you can get once the player completes the campaign, like if i win the game as chaos, let me trigger the endgame crisis as myself, and buff my characters into deamon ascended op craziness, if ive won the game, its not like balance matters at that point

[@newyorkchungus150]

Franz is my favorite campaign and I do not think he needs a rework. Maybe something to spend prestige on late game.

[@Dianbler]

I would argue that the entire elector count system needs a pass. It's very obnoxious in its current iteration. Also, reworks does not necesarilly mean change the established formula, it could also mean: make this more fun. @@newyorkchungus150

[@PingachuWarham]

That's for Thrones of Decay, give it some time

[@urdaanglospey6666]

@@newyorkchungus150Agreed! All factions/races that have a special currency need a way to spend it after they've bought everything. There needs to be an "infinitely purchasable" option for every race. Vampire Counts run out of uses for their Kisses and I know there's at least one more . . .

[@stealthsquirrel4900]

Always appreciate these types of videos from Legend or others that let us get a grip on what has become a truly sprawling, massive game, in Immortal Empires. It can be difficult to know what the hell is going on if you aren't digesting every leak or news break. Appreciate your work Legend.

[@thehonestaspy102]

Whats being offered here is a promising start for sure, the lack of Hag Mothers and the pivot away from Ungols is a big disappointment and lessens Kislev for me but this definitely feels like a GW decision rather than CA (because there's no way CA would pass up the easy reskin of a Hag Mother lord). I must admit what I really want to see though are bigger reworks for the older factions who either feel bland (Dwarves) or broken/unfinished (Norsca) and continued work on improving the AI in battles and on map. Obviously I still hold out hope for ladders becoming a constructable in sieges rather than every unit pulling a magic ladder out of their pants but seemingly CA still doesn't want to do this.

[@rhystaylor851]

Like you mentioned, the lack of actual impactful race reworks (compared to past DLCs) is sad. I had a lot of hope before SoC for ToD reworks but now if this is all the reworking they're doing with a DLC...yeesh. Rip Nurgle

[@acdoob]

I think the reworks are done basically. The reworks were aimed at Warhammer 1 races. I'd assume if they saw any issues with anything they'd fix it but otherwise, we aren't getting much. Plus I think they don't have a big team working anymore. I think there were layoffs and they are probably moving resources over to another game.

[@rhystaylor851]

@acdoob my point is if this is all the reworking they are doing this sucks. I was very hopefully because one of the headlining features of the next few DLCs was "race reworks"

[@samhobbs9116]

​@@acdoobDone? Tell that to Empire, Dawi and Norsca. All are trash. VC need something pretty big and juicy as well. Only orcs and chaos are fine from game 1

[@acdoob]

@@samhobbs9116 you do realize that they did them already right? They aren't going to do a rework of a rework. Except norsca now that I'm thinking about it. I haven't played in a while.

[@owlismyfavouritecolorflame2325]

​@@acdoobyes we are and yes we should, if the old races are straight up less fun than the new races, why buy them?

[@zipscool]

A step in the right direction, but at the same time, this is absolutely content that should have been in the DLC pack from the get-go. I guess we'll just have to see if they can keep the momentum going for Thrones of Decay.

[@emetanti]

Its CA, they will shit the bed again.

[@ZombifiedNappa]

Regarding the question about the Realms of Chaos map, I play it once for each unique campaign. Once for Champions of Chaos, once for Chaos Dwarfs, and twice for shadows of change because the Changeling was so boring that I couldn't muster any more energy to go through it again as the Jade Dragon. I do those campaigns mostly because I expect a story in the small map and a sandbox experience in IE.

[@SereglothIV]

That's what I was doing with WH2 DLCs, but for WH3 I haven't bought any yet, so I don't know whether I'd bother or not.

[@Genesee.Billiam]

I feel like the smaller scope of the realms of chaos for an empire or dwarf campaign could be pretty fun so I might check that out as far as a value offer.

[@lergat]

The additions are an improvement, but for me it's not enought for the price.For me it would be fair for the price of the CoC.That's being said I am a bit surprise of the positive reception from the community for this additions, I thought it would be more mixed. I don't say is a bad or good thing is only my impression. PD: For one of the Legend questions, I like the extra and more detailed map of the realm of chaos in one first more story driven campaing with the dlc additions. Later I only played Immortal Empires. At least before, since SoC was announced I uninstalled and didn't play since.

[@Sandriu]

I mean, i like the additions, they help cathays roster a lot. But all these months for a bone giant reskin, a griph reskin, a phoenix reskin and a dark elf hybrid guy reskin. I hope the mechanics make up for it

[@jureissicpork4432]

I mean ain’t all flying birds Phoenix reskins? Hippogryphs are also griffon reskins. Zombie gunnery mobs are zombie reskins. You see where im going?

[@ThatOneMan830]

In fairness, animation reskins over certain unit skeletons has been a thing since before the first Warhammer game. It helps save heaps of development time and cost while still allowing an aesthetically unique unit to exist

[@Sandriu]

@@jureissicpork4432 I said I liked the additions, I just don't believe 6 months were needed to develop this addons

[@Sandriu]

@@ThatOneMan830 I said I liked the additions, I just don't believe 6 months were needed to develop this addons

[@ashesofaranea]

@@Sandriu it does take quite awhile to develop stuff like this, gotta see in-game if the quality holds up, it sure could have had more content if the total war team was bigger overall

[@cjwarrington177]

I imagine that since the series is "finished" (in the sense that there are no more main-line entries in production), the overall dev team has been reduced significantly. Hence the longer turnaround.

[@Stonewall28]

I like the honesty and transparency. Maybe a good sign of things to come. Hopefully…

[@TheRewasder97]

We will have to see the additions to the other factions, but it looks good. This ammount of content with proper reworks of the outdated faction, a Legendary Lord FLC and interesting mechanics for the new factions. That would be optimal. I agree that the price should be 20 rather than 25, But I still get most of my stuff from IG at a nice discount.

[@coaiemandushman1079]

7:07 THANK YOU! That's what i've been trying to say but I could not find my words for it.

[@bluefire1659]

I played realm of chaos twice and didn't finish either campaign. Since then I haven't thought about it until it was mentioned in this video.

[@TheBoxGhost_tm]

You're not missing anything. The challenge of RoC was good but they were grindy, unfun, and unrewarding about 90% of the time. The tower attack/defense battles were boring or frustratingly BS (I'm looking at you Tzeentch).

[@Frido9090]

only fun part about RoC was the op spell for each lore with that storm of magic mechanic

[@Konstantinos_Mpas]

I agree with you, about the price, they added a few new or reskinned stuff, (I'm personally ok with the reskin), but it doesn't quite close the gap to the 25 USD pricetag. It's definitely an improvement the fact that CA started to take fans opinion into consideration though, the thing is, that in WH 2, I bought every single dlc, regardless the race, some of them never touched them in game, now I will consider buying, only the DLCs that are about races I like. But then again, maybe not too many people are going to do the same thing as me, so it might be beneficial in the long run for CA. At least now, as I said, I will consider buying some of their DLCs

[@bewawolf19]

They haven't started taking fan's opinion, it is just PR until they can spike up the price again. Try trusting them when they stop actively cutting out content to release as day 1 DLC's. They even still lock blood behind a DLC, hardly a company that cares about their community beyond viewing them as a cash cow to be drained.

[@chrishicks1975]

My understanding was that they were doing 4 DLCs/year (in line with the seasons), but thrones of decay (this winter) was delayed so they could re-work shadows of change after the backlash it received

[@joelewis9349]

I played through all roc campaigns but most of those playthroughs were more than a year after launch.

[@riptorn7444]

Really excited to see what else Tzeench will get

[@hannibal5158]

I think it’s worth 20 dollars max when compared with vampire coast and tomb kings

[@nicpardon1057]

Absolutly worth it

[@MasterChud88]

It's a fantastic value with creamapi.

[@thaliatherasdotter9175]

Huge improvement, I love how they have set a minimum content guideline to follow from now on, but it still feels a bit short-changed for the $25 price. I guess $20 would be feel better on the pockets. I guess I'll buy it after all, but only when it's on at least a nice 25% discount. I still have to see the final product delivered and working before committing any money to it though. CA kinda lost all the credibility it had with me.

[@maximal99334]

Not only is this enough, it is actually more than I was ever hoping for! Big thumbs up!

[@tonarinookami]

If they keep up the trend we will have a Legendary Hero that is a melee hero for each of the dark gods. We gotten the Khorne and Tzeentch. Next one will be for Nurgle then the last one will be Slaanesh.

[@curtisnewmanjr]

You know, LegendofTotalWar, I say I agree with what Richard Aldridge is saying, because after the next blogpost which is Tzeench, I'm praying that the blogpost for Kislev will show someone a whole lot better. Two weeks from now will the blogpost for Kislev show up, but we'll get there.

[@Alesha1701]

I think it's worth it. It has a lot of single entity cool monsters, whereas in WH2 it's often were just reskinned infantry and you had like 3 new units per race.

[@SuperCrazf]

Good that they are fleshing out Cathay considering how little we knew about them before this game came out, but i don’t know if it’s enough to fix some of the issues the game has

[@theStamax]

I do hope they keep these kind of posts up (fingers crossed). Seems like they got better community managers / more communication freedom now (though it could be much better still). Aside from the extra content, I really appreciate the thought process explanation and mentioning why they can't or won't do certain things. It's so much better than never getting any info on why certain things aren't done (though again ... they could expand this section and address more stuff). On another note, I'm somewhat concerned about the dlc content plans. While the amount seems about right (tbh including inflation I do think it's worth 25 now), they won't be able to do this past 1 or 2 dlcs per faction. There is just that point where you have enough generic lords, heroes, etc. So my concern is them pidgeonholing themselves into a certain format. I think what they oughta do is, at some point turn down the amount of content added and instead focus on the faction reworks so many already need (ideally we'd get both of course).

[@lunarman9363]

I think it looks like this'll do the job. I'll wait to see if the Kislev & Tzeentch offerings are up to par (Kislev in particular really need that Ostankya-appropriate lord and another low-tier infantry option), but I think I'll be happy to buy this even if I'll sigh a bit at the price. I will be setting this as the minimum baseline for the future ones though...

[@rossjackson8259]

Most importantly it shows once again that bullying works, and that passivity is the best way to ensure you never get what you want

[@tretchchadtail]

10:34 peak of the video

[@minze202]

It wouldn't be surprising if any PR-Speech nowadays is halfmade with Chatgpt. It hauntlingy often sound like corporate speech. XD

[@shetlandapache949]

What i hear is we are getting some reskins and new start locations but very little actual new content

[@snowpereira]

I think it depends if they new Lords actually provide different gameplay as stated and the new units are not all variants ( shield,dual handed nonsense to pad the number count )

[@uriclothbrok2682]

I think that if this amount of content was given to each faction from the start as well as 1-2 new lores of magic, it would’ve been more difficult to complain. I still think another infantry unit that is more “celestial” should’ve been added here. Obviously Monkey King will add a lot, but Cathay infantry needs a lot of love.

[@MantismanTM]

Realm of Chaos should be brought into IE and because there is no settlements in the Realms of Chaos, "something(s)" should draw the player to the Realm of Chaos, because the "something(s)" can only be found in the Realm of Chaos, making the Realm of Chaos relevant again.

[@heuclmeucl-heucl5351]

This might be drowned but i only wanted to voice that i enjoyed the realms of chaos recently, the map is not dissimilar to the old world, in many way i thought it felt more challenging then immortal empire, and with the new building it's really not that hard to prevent rift from wrecking your econ, and playing with faction that don't compete in the race for souls is even more fun.

[@TheDetonation]

So far so good as far as the new additions go, I'll likely buy it? Not sure. It was one of the few DLC I didn't purchase when I got the trilogy on Steam a couple months ago.

[@Stand_By_For_Mind_Control]

RE 'who plays RoC': I'm playing a Chaos Dwarves campaign on it but ONLY because there's no portal crap for them. That's my condition I'm not doing that again ever. It's amazing how much LESS fun that mechanic is than the Vortex campaign in 2.

[@Fatalitix3]

8:50 Well I am playing it right now, but only to unlock Boris, I wish there will be another way in the future...

[@franz9744]

I'm curious about Tzeench and Kislev but I would like to know if CA will solve the issues with the CoC DLC on the Khorne missing unit in the WoC roster. Finger Crossed.

[@coaiemandushman1079]

11:45 they did say 'more DLC more often' So that was a fucking lie

[@yvindlavold5741]

Gate Master should have been part of the free update. CA could have gone "this was cut in the original release, but we managed to work on it and release it anyway", and they would have gotten tons of good PR. Selling cut content later just looks bad. Gives me the same vibes as the camel cataphracts in Rome 2.

[@SalemPulsifer]

It moves the content from "not enough for 25$/€" to "enough if you are a fan of the factions". I like Cathay and Kislev (I'm lukewarm for everything chaos-related, except the Chaos Dwarves that I love), but not enough to pay 25€/$ for this. But if they release the same content for Throne of Decay as Dwarves and Empire, which are part of my favourite factions, I will probably purchase it. Yes, we are far from the DLCs from the second opus, "Just get the content; it's great", yet I'm okay with it.

[@vilidious]

Those are just addressing DLC price point. But to me right now the question is if TW:WH3 is even worth my time or money. New units, lords etc. just add different fruits on the cake, but the cake itself is actively becoming spoiled. I want them to: First, fix the engine and everyday irritations like missile units not shooting when told to do so, or units not disengaging when told to do so. I want the game to be fun and feel like the armies mean something, instead of feeling like the shiniest character/unit wins the day. Second, every update must be an improvement... no more breaking the game in some parts, or abilities not even working as said in release notes... it's called having Quality Assurance. Last, I'm not really even sure if CA is worth giving money to. I don't know what it's gonna take for me to want to fund a childish bully and habitual liar.

[@Raving94]

looks ok for a start need to see what ca will add for tzeentch and kislev but im a little disapointed that there is no mention of a rework for cathay hero skill trees and ivory road

[@superpandabee9177]

Cautiously optimistic. Likely still waiting for a sale though

[@flameingdeath1833]

Lore of Hags was confirmed in the email they put out along with the additional FLC being Katarin getting her sled which I know a bunch of people were screaming for since launch

[@Oh-Deer-God]

As someone who regularly rags on companies for delays - though I'm sure nobody at CA will read this - it's absolutely a meme. I've never been legitimately angry at a brief delay.

[@jiado6893]

Not feeling great about the Celestial Lion. Now we have an in-universe excuse for how Cathay can just asset flip Chaos units, with the Empress going "Wo-Lolo." It's cool the General gets it as a mount, but I'm not sure why he still doesn't get the big drums as a mid-way option. They come with HIS expansion pack, and that giant hammer looks like it's meant for smacking them. (Unimportant, I know).

[@fiveforbiting]

Not sure this is all worth $33 CAD, but I will certainly pick it up at any >20% discount. The fact is, no matter how many units are added, any individual dlc only carries so much value and replayability. Especially without substantial campaign reworks. CA also has to remember that I can play BG3, Darktide, Elden Ring and Helldivers 2 without further investment. A dlc with 15 new units per race still wouldn't be worth $100. More isn't always more valuable to a person. Better, IS always more valuable.

[@elliott4870]

Honestly it’s a wait and see at this point but looking at pure numbers of what’s being added I’d say I’m cautiously optimistic

[@therealikitclaw8124]

Damn I fell asleep. Gotta watch the entire thing again.

[@MrHellboy112]

8:30 touched realms of chaos only a few times, to speedrun some win campaign with *put race* achievements (its way faster than immortal empires)

[@joedatius]

This is certainly a big improvement over what was launched and im glad its all free added content. As much as i hate how CA handles its DLC, This kind of added content to make a DLC feel more like the price reasonable is sadly pretty hard to come by

[@TheYannir]

I'm pretty sure they have someone whose job(part of it, not the whle job) it is to write these blogs who then sends it to whoever it's supposed to be from to add some personal touches. Which is why they all read the same but some of the hints and jokes change styles.

[@marc-andrebujold4930]

Honestly, I like playing realms of chaos campaign for new races (Chaos dwarfs for ex.) because with the more fast-paced and shorter overall campaign, I get to actually complete my game before getting bored.

[@drunkwizard2362]

I would say its worth more like 15-20 and not 25

[@bar_jumper1312]

Great update love the content

[@athalik]

I'm concerned this might become a recurring trend; where CA releases a DLC, gauge how it performs on sales, and then release additional content for it if it is "successful". If this bolsters sales of Shadows of Change enough - which it will, because it is a good update - some executive is going to propose this as an effective strategy going forward. The ultimate result will be the continued release of DLCs that lack the content to match a ridiculously inflated price, because those features might be released in the future, depending on whether or not it is successful. Another downside to this is that we might actually miss out on content if this strategy is adopted, because a DLC might underperform and is thus abandoned. It's a sad state of affairs, when you have to look at something that should be a positive with cynicism, but that's the harsh reality of the vast majority of the AAA gaming industry today. Good update though.

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

CA has already laid out expectations for future lord packs quite clearly with fixed minimums for Legendary characters, Generic Lords nad Heroes, units, and RoRs if they meet that promise all should be fine if they fail to meet that promise and try to pull what you suggested, they're not getting that trust back, it won't work a second time

[@athalik]

@@Eclipsed_Embers I hope so! Maybe I should let myself be more optmistic sometimes :)

[@bewawolf19]

@@Eclipsed_Embers They'll get the trust back. Do you remember what DLC's use to be, with the peak of Medieval kingdoms? Now they got the fanbase accepting scams such as day1 DLC plus dlc for things such as having blood in your game featuring a blood god. CA has been boiling the pot for over a decade now.

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

@@bewawolf19 I didn't get into Total War until the last days of Warhammer 1 so... no I have no idea what DLCs Medieval had. I had been led to expect that Shogun 2 was basically the very peak of Total War (personally I found it incredibly boring, DLC included, but that might just be me) and even back then they were already doing Blood Pack stuff so I just figured that that was something CA had always been doing since the start.

[@bewawolf19]

@@Eclipsed_Embers They have been cutting content for years, and whenever they find something hard to implement they just yeet the feature. Their earlier games had some of the best value for money you can get and they actually innovated. They then claimed the Saga series was what they were going to use to innovate and come up with new ideas, and it soon devolved into beta testing for half-baked titles that they repeatedly abandon shortly after launch with empty promises. Things such as Day 1 DLC's I believe started with the chaos warriors in the initial release of Warhammer where they claimed they just accidentally near the end made enough content to release an entirely separate DLC for the game whilst also missing playability for factions such as Brettonnia. Coincidentally how the warriors of chaos worked was just a repeat of already existing game mechanics from previous titles. The day 1 blood DLC I think started in Attilla or Rome II where they claimed they were charging you seperately to have blood in your wargame to get a lower rating/avoid germany's regulations. It's the blatant nickle and diming, then outrage happens, then they apologize and don't actually change anything. Shadows of War is just the newest iteration of this long tradition of CA.

[@AdminGENIUS]

It feels like it still lacks a free LL to reach the balance between Price and customer value. And it does not adress major bugs or irritating stuff in the game (siege battle bugs like the "permeable" gates or capture points on wall or towers range ; slow AI Turn ; isle events crashes...). It is a good direction, but still a bandage on a wooden leg.

[@ItsKlawtastic]

So is it largely a bunch more reskins and cut content that that hadnt quite been cleared from the recycle bin that they finished off?

[@rossjackson8259]

It seems like enough for me, if they stay/improve the amount of hotfixes for things that break this seems like adequate value/quality

[@Kondzitsu]

Personally, I always played the Realms of chaos on each new race first to know the story. I get bored in sandboxed and the story can be pretty cool.

[@SpiceCh]

I agree. Realms has some really cool things to it

[@TrapsterJ]

Like you asked at the end, I’m not sure that if all this was released initially, would it have been valued any different. Maybe it’s because I don’t really play Cathay or bought the dlc, and it’s not as drastic evident for content as a race pack, but I’m still skeptical.