The air crash that changed aviation safety [AH002]

[@peterfitness1929]

My wife and I were on this aircraft, Fokker F27 “Abel Tasman”, exactly two weeks before the crash, flying in to Mackay from Proserpine. We were returning from our honeymoon on South Molle Island. I have a photo of it that I took at Mackay after we landed. We flew on to Brisbane on a TAA Viscount. I remember thinking at the time how lucky we had been, although the weather conditions at the time of our flight were excellent.

[@1735099]

Sad memories for me. Three of the boys killed had been invited to my 13th birthday party which was to be held in North Eton next day. I had gone to school and played football with them for a few years before they headed off to boarding school in Rockhampton in 1960. My parents cancelled the party of course, and the small community at North Eton was devastated by the tragedy.😥

[@aushistory]

We're sorry to hear of your personal connection with this, I hope we didn't stir many bad memories and offer our condolences.

[@moiraatkinson]

I’m so sorry to hear this. To have no less than 3 close friends killed must have been such a shock and I bet you think of them every time you have a birthday. At such a young age too!

[@georgeolson3996]

The danger of approach over smooth water at night has not been mentioned in the posts. I was recently arrived (January 1960) in Brisbane and was rather attuned at age 10 to passenger travel. In December 1960 I had started in Calgary the flown - Winnipeg - Minneapolis - Duluth - Minneapolis - Seattle- Portland- SanFrancisco- Los Angles- Honolulu- Nandi- Auckland- Sydney-Brisbane. I read the reports in the Courier Mail and the Telegraph and listened to radio reports. The danger of the approach over water at night was part of the discussion and that Mackay was dangerous even in daylight for water especially smooth flat provides no reference for altitude. Note San Francisco is to this day a "difficult" approach over "the bay !!!"

[@simonbowden8408]

I think they misread the altimeter by 1000 feet. They were 4 miles out when they hit the sea. At a glide angle of 3 degrees that implies they should have been at 1100 feet. When in fact they were at 100 and then hit the sea on what they thought was the final turn.

[@musicalaviator]

Or had the wrong Altimeter setting. A setting of 980mb with the altimeter set to 1013mb would give nearly 1000ft of difference (too low)

[@miaflyer2376]

Bureau of Aircraft Accidents says: "The Fokker F-27 aircraft was on a regular passenger flight from Brisbane (BNE) to Mackay (MKY) via Maryborough (MBH) and Rockhampton (ROK). The aircraft departed Brisbane at 17:11 and arrived at Maryborough at 17:52. It then took off at 18:12 on the next portion of the trip to Rockhampton where it landed without incident one hour later. Just prior to the landing at Rockhampton, the aircraft was advised of a special weather report which indicated shallow ground fog at Mackay to a height of 20 ft with a visibility of 880 yd, and also that an alternate aerodrome would be required for the rest of the flight. The flight departed Rockhampton at 19:52. On departure the air traffic controller at Mackay was advised that the expected flight time to Mackay was 52 minutes at an altitude of 13000 ft, that Townsville had been selected as the alternate. At 20:17 the aircraft reported at the prescribed reporting point, Charon Point, 80 miles south of Mackay at 130000 ft and gave its estimated time of arrival at Mackay as 20:40. It was advised that Mackay Airport was closed to landings at that time, and the situation remained the same when the aircraft reached the point at which it would normally have commenced its descent to Mackay. The captain indicated that he would continue the flight at 13000 ft and would hold over Mackay at that altitude. At 20:45 the ATC Officer advised the pilot that visibility was fluctuating between 2 and 2-1/2 miles along runway 14/32. The pilot replied that the airport lighting, the city area, and the surrounding country could be clearly seen, but that a belt of fog extending about 10 miles was situated to the southwest of the airport and was moving in a slightly northeasterly direction across the airport. The pilot then requested landing instructions. The aircraft was cleared to make a visual approach with a view to landing on runway 14. He reported on final approach, and at 20:55 the aircraft was cleared to land. As the aircraft approached close to the runway threshold at a height of about 50 feet, the pilot advised that a small patch of fog had suddenly appeared on the approach to the runway. It then flew along the runway at a height of approximately 50 ft and commenced to climb away. The pilot advised that he would look at the approach to runway 32. The ATC Officer next observed the aircraft descending to approach runway 32. It reached a height of approximately 200 ft, but before crossing the threshold it began to climb along the line of the runway, and the pilot requested permission to hold over Mackay at 5000 ft until an improvement in the weather occurred. This procedure was approved. The aircraft continued to hold over Mackay until about 22:00. At approximately 22:02 the ATC Officer noted the conditions improved rapidly and visibility was continually improving. When the aircraft was thus informed, it replied: "Roger tower, will commence let down to approach on runway 32". The aircraft was cleared for a visual approach and was given the wind (calm) and QNH (1019 mb) and was asked to report on final approach. Nothing more was heard from the flight. During the approach the airplane contacted the sea and crashed, some 12 km short of the runway. Probable cause: The investigation was not able to determine a probable cause of this accident. No evidence was found of material or structural defects, fire or an explosion on board, or any commotion or unusual act by any person in the aircraft. It is possible that something happened within the last 2-3 minutes as a result of which the pilot was unaware of his actual rate of descent. This could have been either caused by the instruments not accurately recording the altitude, or by the pilot relying on visual observation of his surroundings without paying (sufficient) attention to the instruments. The accident happened at night with very few visual clues." No mention of duty times and rest periods or whether the crew had any sleep during the daylight hours before embarking on this demanding multi-stop night flight. There's a significant fatigue factor from the loud whining Rolls-Royce Dart-507 engines and from airframe vibration and from frequent hands-on flying on instruments entering a holding pattern and two successive missed approaches and a third attempted approach. Assuming that the 1 year old turboprop had no last minute mechanical snafus, the probable cause would likely include a lack of dedicated instrument scan by the non flying pilot and spatial disorientation by both pilots.

[@charles300566]

I had vaguely heard about the Australian accident that paved the way for cockpit voice recorders, but never known about it. Thanks for the clip. I guess that withouta CVR, the investigators could only make suppositions.

[@arthurthomasware5004]

I joined the Australian Department of Civil Aviation in May 1960 as a Communication (Air-ground) operator and often worked this type of aircraft. My view on the accident was as concluded: wing dipping into the water on a low turn. I suspect this was the same cause when, on New Year's Day 1964, VH-FRI, a Cessna 185 out of Sissano for Aitape, did the same thing. I was in Madang Operations Building (ATC Tower and Aeradio) whilst this search was being conducted. As it was, the pilot, who was the only person on board, was rescued by natives from the water. There was long delay from when he was rescued, until the natives, via a nearby mission, were able to tell us he was safe. Hence full SAR (Search and Rescue) when on right throughout that day.

[@cwlong9667]

Situational awareness and trying to read that altimeter at night! Made my head spin. Thanks for the vid. I have flown on those in the US.

[@johnphillips519]

My father was on duty in the control tower that evening and he knew that his nephew was on that flight😢

[@aushistory]

That must have been such a difficult time for him, thank you for sharing.

[@2760ade]

Definitely loss of situational awareness by the pilots, for whatever reason. Can't think of any other reason for flying into the ocean! Didn't know that Australia pioneered the 'Black Box' though - fascinating!

[@tungstentwohundredandtwent7007]

“Definitely”? How can you present a definite cause for an incident 50 years ago with scant detail and inconclusive investigation at the time? You’re welcome to have a hypothesis, a guess or an opinion but “definitely” is just nonsensical hyperbole in this situation.

[@robertgarland9342]

The more I see or hear about this accident the more I keep thinking that it was pure and simple pilot error. The pilots had the weather forecast in Rockhampton that fog was rolling in at Mackay. Why the pilots decided to continue was anyone's guess but having that information should have been enough to ground the plane in Rocky until either the fog lifted or go again early morning. But they chose to continue and found the foggy conditions at Mackay. Any pilot today would not have hung around mackay for as long as the TAA F27 did and by all rights it should have flown onto it's alternate airport at Townsville.

[@clipwingcub]

Not to mention that many Airlines today have a strict policy of doing just two approaches before diverting to alternate. They were on their third one... We all have learned from their experience!

[@vincenorman9291]

Yes, having experienced similar we would make decision prior to descent. Later with CAT ll and CAT lll, much improvement. Back in sixties with just an ADF/ NDB approach many loses occurred. Scud runners beware!!!!

[@ijoseluis]

It would be very interesting to describe the similar accident occurred with also with a Friendship of the Angolan DTA in the late 60s or early 70s, close to the town of Lobito, ditching with full loss of lives.

[@mahbriggs]

Most likely, they simply flew into the ocean, having lost visual reference. Combined with a sense of "get there itis" as mentioned in the other post.

[@romanlightman4937]

Those Altimeters were crap, easily misread. I flew some older aircraft that still had this type of altimeter. Wouldnt be surprised at all if this was the cause of the crash.

[@peterwakeman9930]

NAC taken over by Air New Zealand loss a F27 into Auckland Airport water. This have 4 people on board not all survived. The number of people on board POB Person's on board becomes more important

[@HistoryintheDark]

In a time before cockpit voice recorders, water crashes were often especially hard to interpret. It could have been literally any of the things you mentioned, or other events we'll never be aware of. Very sad.

[@perpetualgrin5804]

I remember in primary school an excusion to the airport entailed us kids going for a taxi ride in a Fokker Friendship just around the airport. Seems bizarre today 😕.

[@YeahNo]

I remember in preschool we got to have a look at inside a jet including the cockpit. Haven’t been on one since. 🤷‍♀️

[@perpetualgrin5804]

@@YeahNo A man of the sea ?

[@wattage2007]

3:25 “At about 3am in the morning”, as opposed to 3am in the afternoon.

[@blake9358]

Actually Able Tasman was not the first European explorer to reach Australia, that was Dirk Hartog who explored the North West Coast of Western Australia at a location known as Shark Bay in 1616. And it's more probable that the Portuguese predate him, although this has not yet been proven. Englishman William Damper wasn't far behind either. Again the town of Dampier in the Pilbara region of Western Australia is named after him The first Europeans on the Australian mainland were actually Dutch mutineers by the name of Wouter Loos and Jan Pelgrom de Bye in 1629 , they had sexual relations with aboriginal women. Irish missionary Daisy Bates noticed that some Aboriginal children in WA had blonde hair and blue eyes and practiced European agricultural methods. Daisy Bates married Breaker Morant a Devonian migrant to South Australia who was subsequently executed by the British in South Africa for shooting Boer prisoners of war and a Lutheran missionary in South Africa.

[@YeahNo]

Serious question. Was this why in Brisbane we used to joke TAA meant Try Another Airline? Or was it always a thing? I hadn’t previously been aware of this accident.

[@davidwheatcroft2797]

I bet they pushed on below the "break off" height. 3rd attempt at landing. Is classic "Get there it-is." Flying is a DISCIPLINE. Pilots must be conservative. Wise. Patient. Good pilots are changed in their whole life, needing to be in control. Not easy on partners. CAVU skies to all aviators!

[@moiraatkinson]

That sounds a likely cause. By their third attempt, they’d have had a degree of “getthereitis”. I don’t think a boy with a medicine bottle containing a flammable substance would have had anything to do with it - they crew would hardly have invited either him or his medicine bottle into the cockpit during a critical phase of the flight, like landing. I wonder where their alternate was? They carried more excess fuel in those days, so I imagine there was still sufficient to reach another destination. The altimeter was badly designed, but the pilots would have been used to it and careful about avoiding errors, I’d have thought.

[@davidwheatcroft2797]

@@moiraatkinson "Get theritis" is one of several.......had to move my aerobatic Renegade from Summer field back to home and hangar. Had to wait till nearly Sunset for the wind to die down....now getting dark; rushing; undo tie-downs; remove chocks; start engine; taxi out; full power - engine stopped. Had forgot to turn on fuel despite orange flag hanging in front of my face!

[@moiraatkinson]

@@davidwheatcroft2797 you’re a pilot? Must be lovely to have your own plane! What a long list of things to do as soon as you decide to fly - I’m glad you eventually remembered about the fuel though 😯

[@davidwheatcroft2797]

@@moiraatkinson Thanks. I didn't. As I went to full power, the engine quit! A few seconds later and would have smashed up the plane.......I flew RAFVR at University, so got my instrument rating etc......building the plane, a nightmare. Mistake on every page of manual. Parts missing. But, yes. First flight - take off; climb; turn; turn again onto downwind; power back to cruise. A bit right wing heavy but no holding he stick needed. Super sensitive - 360 degree roll in 3 seconds. My own plane.......sadly, the local girls unimpressed. And aerobatic! Rent an aerobat plus pilot for an hour. Will change your life - become a demi God, unfettered by gravity......zero G really weird! Best wishes!

[@moiraatkinson]

@@davidwheatcroft2797 you made it yourself ?! Wow - the local girls are missing out! I’m impressed at any rate, but as I’m a grandmother that’s not really what you want 🤣. Are you able (ie licensed) to carry passengers on a plane you built yourself, or does someone have to check it’s airworthy? Sorry this is getting off topic - I can’t get over the fact you built yourself a plane! My dad built a boat from a DIY kit, but the worst that can happen there is it might leak.

[@danieleregoli812]

Spatial disorientation?

[@robertspeed9370]

This doesn't have enough credit.

[@davidpearn5925]

I suspect the fire crew were to report RVR - runway visual range (how far on yards they could see whilst on the runway. There is a stipulated figure for an approved approach to land.

[@RidiculousRocketry]

Interesting video. I like your presentation cadence and style.

[@aushistory]

Glad you liked it!

[@AirBlairNZ]

NAC F27 in video. From New Zealand

[@duncanupjohn1481]

Noticed that too.

[@criticalmass181]

I'm slightly confused, now. I used to play in a Fokker Friendship wreck, at Essendon Airport, when I was a kid. As far as I can recall, it was the Able Tasman. The plane was quite real. As far as I can remember it had the nose art of the Tasman. My father, who'd lived in Essendon, well before the airport was built, always said that that plane had landed at Essendon, and had a gear failure, rendering the craft damaged beyond repair, thus it was scrapped there and then. I recall that, a Bristol Freighter, and half a dozen Canberra bombers. Great times!

[@aushistory]

Perhaps another aircraft took the name; we can't find any record of a F27 crashing at Essendon. The Mackay crash was definitely the first Australian F27 and named Abel Tasman.

[@criticalmass181]

@@aushistory Thanks for looking it up. I must have my wires crossed. There was an F27 there, though. Extremely fire damaged, but there, nonetheless.

[@Splodnik]

@@criticalmass181 your F27 was probably the 'Sir Henry Abel Smith', VH-FNE, which was burned in a hangar fire at Essendon Airport in 1971

[@criticalmass181]

@@Splodnik Great work, Splodnik! I tried looking up what it may have been, with no luck. The 'Abel' part is possibly what i'm remembering, but obviously have the rest wrong. It's been well over four decades since I saw the plane. Thanks.

[@pollytelford1566]

Your aircraft was possibly an ex Queensland Airlines (QAL) F 27 "Sir Henry Able Smith" (Governor of Queensland). VH _FNE. This aircraft used to operate as Flight 120 Brisbane to Mackay via Bundaberg. It used to depart Brisbane about 20 minutes before the TAA 538 flight.

[@simonmorris6182]

I'm sure they wouldn't have been entertaining kids at that point because they would have been under a heavy workload landing etc

[@moiraatkinson]

Liked and subscribed 😊

[@Bronson2024]

I wonder if there was icing reported in the area? Also, my dad who was a Naval Aviator and a flight engineer on a PBM-Y seaplane, and a private pilot warned me early on when I was learning how to fly, that the sky and ocean can look exactly same at night and the daytime, and Its very easy to lose your depth percepion and coupled with some vertigo fly right into the ocean. What ever happened it happened quick- no mayday.

[@peterfitness1929]

I would have thought that icing would be extremely unlikely, given that Mackay is in tropical North Queensland.

[@johnyoung1128]

@@peterfitness1929 You can get icing in the tropics as air temperature reduces with altitude. The worst icing conditions occurs at a temperature just above zero centigrade.

[@tedsmith6137]

You called this the 2nd worst commercial crash by death toll. What was the worst? I believe this was equal worst commercial crash, sharing that dubious honour with the DC4 crash at York W.A.

[@aushistory]

You are correct. When compiling info, a military crash snuck into our notes - but this incident is equal first with the York DC4 incident.

[@juliusnepos6013]

Yeah this and that crash of a DC-4 are jointly the deadliest commercial air crashes of Australia. The Bakers Creek Air Disaster is the deadliest overall air crash in Australia

[@markmulligan571]

sounds like mechanical failure and low altitude stall to me. Check maintenance records for problems?

[@bartrazin]

Funny how most foreigners say Schiphol Amsterdam whilst not even being on Amsterdam grounds. Schiphol is entirly situated in the municipality of Haarlemmermeer. Hoofddorp,Badhoevedorp en Nieuw Vennep are a coupe of towns in that municipality. However it does clearly say AMS on your ticket if you fly to Schiphol,so i do not blame them. It is sad what the fate was of one of the worlds oldest aircraft manufacturer. Great video!

[@perpetualgrin5804]

My Dutch father taught me what KLM stands for.

[@ronnieince4568]

Bartrazin -not only do they get Schipol wrong but invariably they pronounce Fokker wrongly! !.I had a airline captain friend who on distant approach was told "You have traffic on the right -a F28 " to which he replied to the Controller "Thank you -I have always wanted to say this -I've got the little Fokker in sight "!!!

[@bartrazin]

@@ronnieince4568 Well, i´ve read the book¨I always get my sin¨by Maarten Rijkens. When JFK was in a meeting with Joseph Luns he asked him if he had hobbies to which Luns answered¨I fok horses!¨. Hilarious!

[@lesleyb5591]

I think it's not unusual for big airports to actually be outside the places they're named after as it normally wouldn't be possible to land planes in the middle of a big city. For example I believe Glasgow Airport is actually in the town of Paisley whilst London Stansted Airport is in the county of Essex.

[@JBofBrisbane]

The three-pointer altimeter indicates 100s, 1000s and 10000s of feet. Better options have been developed since.

[@michael.h.bradley1865]

misinterpretation of the altimeter ?

[@MegaBloggs1]

did it run out of fuel??

[@peterlovett5841]

Cowboy approaches were not unknown on the F27 fleet at the time and especially on the multi-leg flight up the Queensland coast. I have watched a similar approach in 1999 in Tasmania (from the ground) that led to the captain of the aircraft being grounded for a period of time. That time it was in a Saab 340. Three point altimeters should not have been a problem in a properly conducted instrument approach.

[@stupadasol5911]

In 1964, an F-27 crashed in the Bay Area of San Francisco. The cause of that crash was ruled a murder-suicide when both pilots were shot by a passenger.

[@aushistory]

Wow, that's pretty intense!

[@bigcheezmoe]

Yup, pilot error. Maybe a digital altimeter might of save them.

[@Gail1Marie]

I learned to fly as a kid, back when there were still some airway beacons in operation. I often wonder if pilots today could fly with needle, airspeed, and ball?

[@bigal3940]

13 degrees Celsius temperature and fog, What?

[@zozzamozzi]

Could be wrong, but always thought this crash was the crash that led to the first crude flight recorders being developed. CVR's came much later. Any one know of a crash investigation that used flight recorders before 1960 ?

[@trooperdgb9722]

Several flight recorders of various types were in fairly wide use much earlier...a French one was invented in the late 1930's for instance. Finnish, British and American units somewhat later. So while an Australian (David Warren) invented a very much better one in the late 1950's, it was by no means the first... When you combine his very much improved unit with Australia being the first country to officially REQUIRE Flight data recorders..its not hard to see why many think it is an "Aussie invention". Its a shame the campaign to name Canberra Airport after him failed... but it appears at least a major building in the airport precinct WILL carry his name.

[@zozzamozzi]

@@trooperdgb9722 Thanks Trooper clearly flight recorders were slow to develop perhaps because of the technical difficulties.Read a few crash reports from the US from the 40's and 50's but no mention of flight recorder information at all in these.

[@davidharris2519]

spatial disoriention

[@danobrien3601]

I always thought it was a trick of the runway lights appearing on the water. Under certain conditions this can happen

[@grahamthebaronhesketh.]

It happened at Stornaway Scotland too Lear jet or something similar.

[@acegikmoii]

If the aircraft were fully configured for landing, and relying on a visual approach at night, they may have been flying low and slow, dis-orientated by no visual point of reference, and realising at the last minute that they were about to land on the water, pulled the nose of the aircraft sharply up and stalled the left wing which resulted in the aircraft impacting the water.

[@pollytelford1566]

TAA Director of Engineering , John Watkins developed a theory centered upon a " brown bottle " discovered in the cockpit after recovery from the sea. The theory hinged upon the the assumption that it belonged to one of the schoolboys from Rockhampton Grammar School (RGS). Evidence given to the enquiry by Mr Elkins, who operated a taxi service in Rockhampton and who provided the coach transfer service to Rockhampton airport from the city and return for TAA is rarely mentioned. He testified to the enquiry about a person who claimed to be an ex US Marine and who was in an agitated and vocal condition. In evidence it was claimed that the person did not like the US Marine Corps. What if the bottle was the property of this man and not the property of the pupil of RGS. Instead of the bottle containing " acetone , toluol, ether fluids scrounged from Grammars Chem lab" the bottle contained chloroform.

[@gavinboot4810]

A calm night,,fog on ground but whole town lit up for reference,,it isnt that hard to keep a plane level,,assuming the tower had some radar that would have alerted to being low even if altimeter unsure,,and no landing lights on to help figure it out,bizarre,,captain sank this ship,,

[@aushistory]

No radar. Radar wasn't introduced in Australia until 1959 in Sydney and Melbourne (Essendon), and then Canberra, Adelaide, and Brisbane in the 60s. By the 90s the east coast was covered from Cairns to Adelaide, plus Perth and Darwin.

[@gavinboot4810]

@@aushistory thanks much reply from source,,never expect that,,if it was a slow kinda level descent more of the plane would have survived,,this thing went hard in,,

[@mohammadjawidnoorulhaq873]

I guess they went too low.

[@susan19751]

i live in Mackay, Australia, Queensland

[@57Jimmy]

CFIT. Lost situational awareness.

[@alexanderevanska4274]

Hind sight has saved thousands of lives. Shame, aforethought could have saved thousands more.

[@perrycorn6173]

Maybe they saw the moon reflection on the surface of the ocean if it was smooth and we’re is oranted and turned upside down and flew into the water

[@rich3124]

The clue lies in the attempted low level turn. It seems probable they were still actively tracking inbound (probably using an ADF). It is likely they couldn't see the runway at that distance because they crashed 5nm from the airport, too far for it to be seen in fog. One assumes they were unaware of their dangerously low altitude. The lack of an emergency radio call would also suggest they were unaware of their dangerous situation. Hence I think the altimeter confusion seems most likely.

[@pascalcoole2725]

I'm VERRY familiar to the Fokker F27. What i'm missing here is the cockpit configuration. I know at the time there was no mandatory GPWS but for such an airline a RADALT would not be to uncommon. Flight into smooth water also is a known danger (a colegue of mine managed this way to smash a helicoptor into the sea, it's not a good thing for ones curiculum)

[@rosssmith6205]

I am a retired TAA E&I LAME. The F27 was my first licence which I received in 1969. There was no such thing as GPWS then, and no rad alts were fitted to any TAA a/c in 1969. Did rad alts even exist in 1959? The only F27 I worked on that had rad alts was VH-EWP which was a flying laser depth sounder a/c operated by the Royal Australian Navy and based in Cairns. I also noticed that no mention is made of the "crash axe" that was a great topic of debate after this accident.

[@pascalcoole2725]

@@rosssmith6205 Thanks for the information Ross. Refering to the oldest config i was familiar with which was G-BVDS a -200

[@paulholterhaus7084]

Too many attempts to land AND too much waiting to land time........Invites accidents.......Paul........Retired ATP

[@jeannotschumacher1024]

Sounds believable

[@Eric_Hutton.1980]

I thought that the collision of United Flight 718 & TWA Flight 2 in 1956 was the reason for CVRs and flight data recorders. At least in the United States. By no means am I an expert in aviation history.

[@aushistory]

The legacy of the Grand Canyon collision in 1950 was the creation of the single FAA to oversee all civilian and military flights within the US. Prior to then, each had their own air traffic control and there were a series of near-misses and collisions involving civil and military aircraft.

[@JBofBrisbane]

The CVR was an Australian invention. Up until this accident, there was resistance towards it in the industry, mainly about "privacy issues". The RAAF simply said "All our aircraft are expendable"(!)

[@gandalf87264]

You would need to give a whole lot more information for me to even begin to speculate on the cause of the accident. What was the fuel quantity in the tanks. What navaids did they have? Could there have been wing or static tube icing? It may be possible with a ground temperature of 13c. I can think of hundreds of scenarios.

[@michaelhayden5264]

As I understand the last communication from the pilot was his advice that he was leaving 8000ft on descent. As for navigation aids the Fk27 would have been equipped with a radio compass/ADF, DME and possibly a VHF Omni Direction Receiver and a VAR ( another for of radio aid no longer used). The ADF and other flight instruments such as altimeter and directional guidance were usually duplicated one in front of each pilot. It was a tragedy, but the aviation industry learnt from it. The other crash around that time, VH-TVC the Vickers Viscount that flew into a severe electrical storm resulted in weather radar being fitted to all large passenger planes.

[@allenwheatley1900]

13 degrees celcius is 55 degrees farenheit.

[@jeffrenman4146]

I think it was pilot error… Simple. They were not paying attention and killed everyone… When a pilot is irresponsible it's like murder basically… It still happens. One of the things that makes me think this is because there was no radio transmission. I'm assuming the radio was working I wonder if they checked what was left of it… Aviation crashes are still happening far too often thanks to negligence from pilots to mechanical to design itself. Far too often

[@FRLN500]

You must be an Olympic athlete. You can sure jump to conclusions.

[@jeffrenman4146]

@@FRLN500 if I said the rudder fell off you would say the same thing… It's an opinion if I can't have one… Neither can you.

[@DrakeN-ow1im]

Your expertise in this matter is what, exactly? Have you any aviation experience, an ATPL endorsed on multi engined aircraft perhaps? Commercial air transport is still the safest form of mechanised transport by a large margin of passenger miles incurred. Perhaps you might like to read up on the statistics regarding transport to and from airports.

[@jeffrenman4146]

@@DrakeN-ow1im sarcastic a little you seem …I have been flying for 40 years how long have you been in aviation?

[@creeib]

The orange black box.

[@Gail1Marie]

I suspect it's called a "black" box because the inner workings were mysterious (much as Top-Secret programs are called "black" programs today).

[@3laci]

C. F. I. T. in this case into water......

[@perpetualgrin5804]

It's extremely dishonest to call it a ' Black box ' when it's orange. Shameful conduct. 😆

[@lardyify]

Should have diverted to his alternate. Sounds like get-home-itis to me.

[@Gail1Marie]

Absolutely. I had an instructor tell me that crashes were usually caused by three factors. On one flight, our electrical system died (had to prop the plane at a remote airfield). Then a spider got down the pitot tube and affected the airspeed. Finally, a potential thunderstorm was forming at our home airport within an hour of our arrival time. Nope, nope, and nope. I got as close to home as I could, and spent the night at a Holiday Inn. Always carried a toothbrush, change of underwear, T-shirt to sleep in, and deodorant. No delay was worth my life.

[@brendonrutherford5118]

Interesting video but the final statement of merely asking people for their opinion on what may have happened is nothing short of being blatantly idiotic for want of a better description!! None of us watching this video can rightly base any assumption as to the reason of this tragedy unless we have had access to all the various & different facts & figures that are needed to even summise a possible scenario of what may have transpired.!! Its all mere & utter speculation & therefore not worthy of a tin of crap!! I'm presuming that there would have been a Court of Inqury & therefore any outcome as authorised by that said court is & can be the only legitimate explaination & sadly right or wrong!! The Mt Erebus (Air NZ, DC-10-30 (circa Nov. 1979) is a classic case whereby the Court of Inquiry probably got it wrong & where Air NZ top management lied through their bloody teeth!! That now famous statement by Judge Mahon of the Court of Inquiry whereby he uttered , An Orchestrated Litany of Lies was so spot on. (yeah right) Air NZ senior management inclusive of the then current NZ Prime Mister (otherwise known as "Piggy Muldoon") were rotten to the core & Morrie Davis did the best & only honourable thing that he could do which was to simply resign forthwith!! Muldoon was such an arsehole of a dog & one wouldn't waste the effort required to boot this mongrel right up his arse!! Air NZ tried to blame it on pilot error but it was & always will be Company Error in the form of probably incorrect way-points etc loaded into the comuter system etc, etc!! The Captains home soon after the accident was raided, nothing of financial value including money, jewellery etc was stolen but aviation orientated documents, air maps etc, etc were most definitly taken or probably stolen. Thieves normally look for financial rewards & don't usually steal air maps & the like as they have no real monetary value. I suspect this was a planned Air NZ inside job ordered by the Top Brass to cover their filthy arseholes!!

[@dafyddllewellyn6636]

Good Heavens! You're actually being logical about this! In the 1980s I was in charge of an F27 series 100 - i.e. the same version as the aircraft in this discussion - VH-CAT, which had been purchased by the Dept of Civil Aviation for the purpose of calibrating ILS systems. It was subsequently purchased by CSIRO for atmospheric research. It had the later-type altimeters installed, the crew are supposed to cross-check their readings on any approach to land. The altimeters have independent static systems. CSIRO had an approval to operate the aircraft down to 100 feet above the ground when necessary, but this was only done in visual conditions by day, and the very experienced crews were well aware of the "glassy water" hazard. That aircraft is preserved in a museum in Adelaide.

[@Rocket-hb6jh]

Trans AUSTRALIA Airlines not ‘Australian’.

[@richyrichk]

Skipping too many approaches in low weather at an airport when alternates are available is long held from this and similar.

[@williamnelson4633]

Very good 👍

[@robertcoleman4861]

R.I.P.💐🌹🌺