The American SPAA Problem

In this Video we go over the American SPAA problem that is Gaijin has not added a new SPAA to fill the gaps in the American ground tech tree for years.
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About: War Thunder has had a problem with SPAA in the american tech tree where we are forced to use the M16 or the M42 Duster all the way to the BR of 7.7 In this video I go over some SPAA units that gaijin could add to the American tech tree
#WarThunder
#WW2Gaming
#AircraftCombat
#TankWarfare
#NavalBattles
#HistoricalGaming

[@Tien-Chi]

Gaijin has not once thought about adding an spaa to the only nation that lacks a rank IV anti air

[@theidiotictroublemaker2281]

Name a spaa that they can be added as rank6?

[@mcpuff2318]

Sweden may have a rank IV spaa but that's in name only. It's also 4.3

[@theidiotictroublemaker2281]

@@mcpuff2318 ohh wait. I did some digging and found out about the spaa with chaffee hill and 20mm turret

[@Tien-Chi]

@@mcpuff2318 It's a good tank destroyer though

[@fancispy6925]

they did for france tho

[@KlaweKlapki]

biggest problem is lack of proper sights for spaa

[@ah-64apache92]

Sure budy if it is such big problem why wont you fix it yourself? Custom sighs are a thing

[@certifiedboylover3428]

@@ah-64apache92why should we have to use third party shit to make spaa useable

[@theandroidsentbycyberlife4093]

@@ah-64apache92 🤓

[@jesusofbullets]

@@ah-64apache92 Because different sights are going to be needed for different calibers and to have to download custom sights for every AA and caliber in game is an absolute chore?

[@justmarc2015]

Guess where to aim, fire, watch the tracers, and adjust. Easy

[@thegamingzilla6269]

There is an M42 duster equiped with the same IR tracker as the M163, which while not the most useful it is helpful

[@casematecardinal]

And the m163 in game isnt even the good version or even historically accurate

[@dashdog1503]

Funny seeing you here

[@jeanmouloude]

@@dashdog1503 wtf are you guys doing here ?

[@dashdog1503]

@@jeanmouloude I could ask the same of you

[@reinbeers5322]

It's not an IR tracker, its radar. Existing M163 is accurate, its not a PIVADS.

[@Bergebis]

A several countries (like Japan and Israel) have significant SPAA gaps that are difficult for Gaijin to fill. Like you've mentioned, the US has plenty of options to fill these gaps, and i think France is in a similar spot. There are so many French AMX-13 and armored car based SPAA vehicles that could populate nearly every gap France has.

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

britian also has a big gap

[@quentintin1]

for french SPAA to fill gaps/give equivalencies to other countries we have -[truck] with 20CA39: what it says on the tin, france had acquired less than a thousand oerlikon 20mm AA guns before war were declared to equip infantry regiments, many were then mounted on trucks with an official notice being published, would be pretty similar to the japanese aa truck -{truck] with 25CA339/40: as above, but a more potent gun, two variants of the gun, the former being a field AA dropped on the back of a truck, poor aiming angles to the front, the second has slightly improved (cyclic) fire rate and a new pedestal mount allowing to fire over the truck cab at 0° -CCKW flakvierling: what it says, a GMC with a 2cm Flak 38 quad mount, ~70 conversions post war -CCKW MG151: same as above but with quad MG151s in a french made turret, roughly the same number -AMX-13/FCM48/Bat-Chat 12t S232: light tank prototype with a turret mounting 4 MG151/20 machine guns in an enclosed turret -Hotchkiss AB320: hotchkiss light track transport, with a turret sporting 2 20mm guns -AMX ELC-30: ELC variant mounting the same 30mm gun as on the AMX-30 DCA in game, but just the one and without radar -AMX-13 DCA 30pt: early prototype of the AMX-13 DCA with the same turret as the AMX-30, but no radar and much, much more like jesus christ there are so many things we could try, prolific doesn't even come close to it, tho most of the rest are radar gun/missile aaa, with very few -if any- mixed systems (i've found only 2, one a VAB with some gun turret with mistrals, the other a M113 with 23mm and strelas for egypt

[@bb-152ussmeta9]

​@datcheesecakeboi6745 the funny thing is that they had actually filled this gap by adding the Ystervark and Skink, but then they fucked it up by pushing the Falcon higher and higher in BR, recreating the gap the Skink was added to fill

[@snugglecity3500]

​@@datcheesecakeboi6745britain also has multiple solutions

[@snugglecity3500]

​​@@bb-152ussmeta9theres also the gap between the stormer and the adats plus the gap created by the stormer being garbage.

[@legozeke246]

I think one that is often missed out but a great option for 7.0 would be the T22 75mm GMC. Essentially it’s a M19 with a autoloading 75mm in place of the 40mms. Firing HE-VT at 1.3 seconds per shot. With no known access to AP it would be purely anti-air with the ability to overpressure the odd opentop that’s dumb enough to push it. Limited ammo storage wouldn’t make it the de facto scourge of the air as with recent changes to HE-VT you have to be fairly accurate. Plus it’d be interesting and different which I beg gaijin to do more of

[@lalad0]

He vt at 7.0.... yes mate for sure !

[@foxmaster6963]

@@lalad0 1.3 seconds and no radar, it wont be op.

[@condor3665]

You are aware theres a shit ton of artillery vics that have bigger hevt shells at a lower br right?​@@lalad0

[@lalad0]

@@condor3665 they all have long reload and bad traverse. the lowest hevt aa is at 8.0 the wz305 and it's prett damn good already while fighting jets. at 7.0 you're in the early jets/ late props era and they get shreddid by any kind of aa.

[@condor3665]

@@lalad0 so take the WZ, get rid of the mobility and the tiny bit of armor it does get (crew completely exposed now), lose 2 crew, half the number of cannons and cut the fire rate by a 4th, and it should still be 8.0 or higher? I can give you 7.3 maybe. Also your first sentence makes it seem like the T22 would have a fast turret traverse like a certain WZ might, but I cant find anything stating a turret traverse speed but I cant imagine you would be lugging around that size cannon with autoloader to fast with 1940s tech.

[@jw1343]

That 50 cal bit is the realest thing- US roof mounted MGs are terrifying

[@thethugpugz7904]

Kpvt r wut u should fear

[@YeeMacghyee]

@@thethugpugz7904 It would be if it was on more than like what, 3-4 tanks not counting the BTR-152s?

[@fulgrimventris8506]

@@thethugpugz7904 KPVTs have magazines that are way too small to really be useful as air deterrent. Theyre great to have as a coaxial on the T-10M though

[@JackIsMe1993]

Hell I'm still using the M16 in my 7.0 setup.

[@huckleberrylol]

dawg

[@typhoon1575]

Can't be blamed. the M19 and 42 have comically exposed turret crew, and the 40mm are difficult to aim at aircraft.

[@Sh4quille0atmeal]

i assume they'd still do great but it just takes some skill. people underestimate what a difference skill can make regardless of the vehicle

[@Tyler-nh6oy]

Sweden T4 aircraft come to mind. Literally 5 fighters, no bombers no interceptors.

[@hurrikane_merp]

I’ve always wondered why there’s such a big gap in US SPAA

[@Paronak]

USA in real life focused on air superiority. didn't have to spend money on developing SPAAs if all your planes shoot down the enemy close air support

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

theres a big gap in alot of trees

[@silvergrid5421]

@@datcheesecakeboi6745 not that big. And if gap exists - the last SPAA is at least normal...unlike misonfigured duster

[@casematecardinal]

Gaijin hates the us, its tech tree and its players

[@EXTREMEYAMUM90]

there is SO MUCH stuff gaijin wont add to USA, such as a default LAV with an autocannon. like why when EVERY other main nation has a no atgm IFV at 7.7/8.0

[@Paronak]

Battlefield 3 LAV. i'm still waiting for it....

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

oh yea lets give the US another vehicle they are the ones who need more vehicles, not britian, france, italy or japan

[@silvergrid5421]

@@datcheesecakeboi6745 maybe they need at least one bloddy 4 rank SPAA instead of another offspring of sherman and piersing??? I'll be glad if gaijin stopped adding SPAAs to France and added some medium/heavy tanks and as well do this to Italy or Germany, and not to add yet another German SPAA, existence of which is at least questionable

[@kousand9917]

​@datcheesecakeboi6745 all nations deserve vehicles, and is it bad if we ask for a fun one?

[@CajunYT]

I think the American problem in war thunder is it is the only tree that does not benefit from the Capture and Lend Lease system and the experimental tanks. Russia heavily benefits solely from the experimental tanks department all while every other tree in the game benefits from the capture and lend lease system. Germany captured a Sherman here’s your Sherman. You smelled the inside of a Sherman or American tank here’s your tank. America captures multiple German tanks in world war 2 and not a single one is in the US tree. Idk seems suspicious

[@DawgIVLife]

There is a difference between captured and used during the war than captured to be tested at aberdeen then sent to a museum.

[@DawgIVLife]

I have never heard of a source that the US ever did that. If you have it would like to see

[@casematecardinal]

​@@DawgIVLife they are adding the sweedish tiger 2. Not to mention there are a lot of tanks that were only ever tested in many different tech trees. But generally the point is that America gets shafted big time when it comes to those sorts of vehicles ie prototypes and captured. If we get them at all they are either an aehistorical tank with the worst features of several prototypes ala t25, the easiest or worst version of a prototype ehichever is the worst, or just a generally nuetered version that also tends to be completely aehistorical.

[@karmdeez911]

gayjin keep shitting on america tech tree

[@creepermariguano942]

@@DawgIVLife the americans used the king tiger

[@duck_iri]

gaijin forgot about the us spaa tree and he forgot about the swedish tech tree

[@Sebmundo]

And the Italian

[@randomstuff4997]

USSR TOO many SPAA, they are also crazy OP

[@misterperson3469]

​@@Sebmundothey introduced the entire Hungarian sub trees very recently what are you on about

[@jammy9033]

gaijin should atleast give us the skink because its an anti air sherman in the hands of the uk

[@deadlywrath.8636]

@@randomstuff4997if you ever used all of them you know half of them are shit

[@jarodwingert5517]

Low BR AA has become a serious problem. There is so much AA that does nothing but camp spawns, and then you have the M53/59 which is almost indistinguishable from an aimbot that can also kill many tanks at its BR. Any SPAA with the Rh202 cannon or derivative of it is insanely strong due to ammo type available, velocity, and tracking speed of the gun; and there are so many tanks with this weapon below 5.7 it's insane.

[@100_American_Bison]

I think SPAA in general needs the ability to customize their belt like deciding which rounds in sequence. Another thing I think can be given to help SPAA in general is the use proximity fuse rounds for 20mm and above.

[@DawgIVLife]

you are lucky to find a poxy round in ww2 below 100mm none of these machines had access to proxy irl

[@rikkatakanashi2804]

@@DawgIVLife I think it would be fair that the duster gets he-vt, worse engine and moved to 6.7 or 7.0. It has access to he-vt irl. Hell the m19a1 also has he-vt irl too. I wouldn't mind if gaijin gives it he-vt, nerfs the reload and engine, and moves it to 6.3 or 6.7.

[@DawgIVLife]

@@rikkatakanashi2804 it would be a min of 8.0 with proxy

[@reinbeers5322]

​@@rikkatakanashi2804 No Duster model got HE-VT IRL. That was only a thing on naval vessels and the M247, long after the Dusters were retired from service.

[@armadillo3454]

Another issue that tends to get overlooked is the top tier SPAA for the US which IS NOT the ADATS because it is classified as a TD. Therefore the top SPAA for the USU is only 10.3 and after the missile nerfs is mid at best. My proposal for a new top tier SPAA for the US: SLAMRAAM but not the version with the AIM9X (for obvious reasons)

[@brannonmeador1792]

If Russia can have the steeple at 10.3 we can have 9x at top br

[@xvang9346]

T10E1 can be 3.7 since Germany has wirblewind at 3.7 its basically similarly functional

[@tbone54690]

I was thinking the same thing the wirblewind get two more 20 mils and a more protected crew area but is at a lower br makes no sense

[@reinbeers5322]

​@@tbone54690 T10E1 can fire for longer since it has bigger drums.

[@saika4043]

were telling gaijin since years to add the .50 Chaffee SPAA for mid tier but they simply refuse to do it

[@edxcal84]

There was this ball turret SPAA that had a 40mm Bofors and twin .50 cals, but like you said at the end it lacked turret speed and only carried like 60 40mm rounds in it's turret (Sherman hull for tests), but I still think it would be a nice addition as it's still an SPAA that would be good against both aircraft and tanks. Great video too!

[@Kscopes8888]

love how the first comparison is dont give America a tiger II and swedens getting one

[@sasin2715]

they didn't even capture it, they bought it for fucking TARGET PRACTICE

[@enesberkyavuz4078]

I believe Gaijin left the AA gaps because the real AA of the US is their planes. When I play ground 3.7-6.7, most planes up in the air are usually US planes. Plus, as you already mentioned, the 50 cals. The amount of 50 cals in a match is usually 10 in a full team, and it most of the time will be enough of an annoyance for planes. It forces them to stay high and not let them bomb, and if they do get burnt by the 50s...

[@enesberkyavuz4078]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't add these AAs btw. I would love to see the Chaffee with the 20s.

[@reinyfrost3753]

The problem with relying on planes to do SPAA work is that they are much much more expensive than actual SPAAs, and it also means that you'd hope that your team are bringing useful aircraft to counter enemy aircraft.

[@phantom2hell]

i believe you are wrong........ as a player when i get to take down airplanes task... especially the 15.. it takes me 2-3 matches.. every time.. with the german 6.0 or at 5.0 ... why? us airplanes are sad.. players dont care about and come in a head on with the aa... + they believe that have cannons instead the 4 or 6 50cal... the same time you shot at them with one or 2 heavy 40mm auto cannons.. so the us air line is not so strong.. there........ as well is they face the fast auto cannons like the bosvark... the btrz.... and the same time you have to face yak 9 yak 3 and the bf 109s.. with your poor p51 or the f4u... that are ok.. and fine planes.. but have some limits.. that the enemy can easy get you from.. so.. the us is a nerfed tree above the of the big 3 nations.. dont forget to get on an airplane cost you more than 500points.. when you get on an AA you are on the 70 to 100 points.. so..

[@enesberkyavuz4078]

​@@phantom2hell Don't underestimate the .50 cals against planes, even if you have only 4 of them. When one of them hits the plane's fuel or engine, they usually burn it down. The US planes don't lack in armament in any way compared to other nations. .50 cals even break wings sometimes, and the amount of pilot sniping is just insane with them. As for the AA's, I don't know how other people approach them, but I use rockets to shoot at AAs. Yes, I forgot to talk about the points; you are right about it, there is no argument.

[@enesberkyavuz4078]

@@reinyfrost3753 Yes, the points are 5 times that of the AAs, but achieving that 5 times is not hard. You can easily get 500 points or more by capturing a single point with a light tank, killing two enemies, or getting a scouting and a shooting assist. I believe fighters, with or without bombs, are effective enough for that 5 times increase in points. However, it's true that you have to rely on someone bringing a good fighter aircraft, or be the one to do so. Unfortunately, some people choose not to spawn in an AA vehicle because they don't want to or don't like playing with AA.

[@BCase56]

I had a moment when I typed in chat use the .50 after watching no one use it to shoot the planes that were destroying them when the team lit up the sky right after no plane survived.

[@Lazerlord5275]

I think Gaijn should give the US tech tree the M6 Linebacker, AN/TWQ-1 Avenger (already in the Japan tree), and a Patriot missile carrier. I think these would provide alternatives to current SPAA’s in the US tree and might even be able to stretch out the tree. I also think that the M163 should be lower on the tree, like 6.7 or 7.0 instead of 7.7.

[@reinbeers5322]

Japan doesn't have an Avenger lol, Type 93 looks similar but it's an entirely different vehicle. Also you're crazy for thinking the M163 is 6.7/7.0 material when the Kugeblitz is 7.0 lol

[@Lazerlord5275]

@@reinbeers5322 my bad on the Avenger, they look very similar, and M163 thing is my legitimate opinion. 20mm AP-I can’t go through any tank armor and to be honest, the plane damage isn’t that great. The Radar could be a redeeming factor but it’s so janky on the M163, the range sucks and the plane really has to be approaching at a close-ish distance in order for you to get a leading line

[@reinbeers5322]

@@Lazerlord5275 The damage isn't great sure, but it fires at what, like 3000rpm? And carries a LOT of ammo. As an AA you don't have to be good at shooting tanks. The radar not being great means its BR isn't greatly affected by it, removing it wouldn't be a huge change if it's that bad.

[@ComfortsSpecter]

Great Presentation Good Work Thank You Man

[@Knot_Sean]

USA could get the Red Queen and Red King AA which were basically tractors with huge guns on em for aa use. British even made a 4” gun that could launch a crap ton of HE-VT 🎉shells a minute. The americans used something similar with a towed 3”?

[@killerstache5321]

This is a good video, I hope someone at Gaijin picks this up because you’ve put forth good suggestions. I’m subscribing for this too, good content!

[@phoenixguild8375]

Swedes have a similar issue, but the BKAN with the proxy-fuse shells can cover that well in several instances.

[@cesar6302]

i was just thinking about this, and you just come out of no were and comment on this , nice!!, also i have to stuck whit the m16 anti air gun pods since the m42 dual 40mm canons are unrelaiable and slow for the br i have to face over 5.0, at 6.7 im already facing jets and if i get the m163 im way beyond my br limit facing even more cold war era vehicles

[@oliverkromann1902]

Radar at that br could be as basic as a direction indicator for planes instead of listen for them

[@lt.lettuce2023]

I was so pissed when the skink went to the uk. The ram is a Canadian vehicle based on the Stuart, us tree. The c2a1 mexas is a Canadian vehicle based on the Leo tank, Germany. The skink is a modified grizzly tank which is based on the m3 Lee. Let's give that to the uk and put it next to the other 2 autocannon spaa at the same br range, USA doesn't need an actually usable spaa past 2.7! This is wrong, by ram I ment m4a5 ram 2 which is based off of the m3 Lee chassis, the skink is actually just a straight up sherman tank.

[@t2av159]

yeah canadian things are all over the place

[@petrkdn8224]

Just because a tank uses some part from the US doesn't meant it has to be in US tree

[@lt.lettuce2023]

@@petrkdn8224 then why is the ram ii in the us tree and the c2a1 mexas in the german tree? Both are Canadian vehicles.

[@petrkdn8224]

@@lt.lettuce2023 I said it doesn't mean to, not it can't be

[@lt.lettuce2023]

@@petrkdn8224 what's your point? USA shouldn't get the skink because they don't need it?

[@ToastRepublic]

After the recent revised br changes, the m114a2, is definitely coming to war thunder, R3 and amx 10p just got upped to 6.0, and the 2 dusters got Grouped with both at 4.0 now. From a very quick search, both of those spaa's have the same gun as the 114, with the war thunder wiki even referencing the American rename for it, the M139.

[@spencerlenz5050]

Didn't the bofors have he-vt? they could just give the m42 duster proximity rounds which would definitely result to it going back 6.7, but also make it VERY effective against aircraft.

[@DawgIVLife]

It would go to 8.0 but also HE VT is a round that was not created for the 40mm till the 70s

[@kousand9917]

​@@DawgIVLifeRaduster :)

[@ethanedwards422]

​@@DawgIVLife Doesn't the Chinese zsu-57-2 have HE-VT at 7.0? A duster with HE-VT would be pretty decent at 7.0, probably even at 6.7

[@DawgIVLife]

@@ethanedwards422the regular ZSU 57 is 7.0 the Wz305 is 8.0 with the proxy rounds.

[@GodKingUvenk]

the sub i ii is a nonfactor is in a br that you need to uptier the 5.0 "only 5.0 is the chi ri 2" and the 4.7 chitos and the heft shell cant even tickle most planes with the amount of filler it has

[@typhoon1575]

Something that annoys me with the M16 and M13 specifically, is that both of them have incorrectly modeled drivetrains. Where in game they behave like tanks, braking the left and right tracks and front wheels. Causing them to lock at low speeds. Despite the fact that the half track is literally just a 4 by 4 truck with the rear wheels swapped out for track drive wheels. They never bothered to fix this even after having added many normal wheeled vehicles to the game.

[@BeeWaifu]

There's a Sherman SPAA prototype with enclosed turret that was built and tested momentarily. I forget the name but it's somewhere in my books (Specifically one recensing all the British, US, and Commonwealth vehicles. The sherman has 17 pages all to itself.)

[@DawgIVLife]

T52 and the T36? Both of those vehicles are pretty limited on the amount of ammo it carried and also iirc the traverse on the turret would not be great for SPAA duties.

[@BeeWaifu]

@@DawgIVLife That's it. T36 Skink. That's the one I was thinking of.

[@Sh4quille0atmeal]

my suggestion is to remove the dusters (M19A1 and M42) and just fill in the gap with some effective prototype SPAAs (ostwind 2, zerstorer 45, etc..) or ones that were actually used/in production. the examples you gave in this video seem pretty good to me.

[@ComfortsSpecter]

The Technique of Parity Is only Viable in Warthunder because of It’s Limited Selection and Intense Rank Compression Very Limiting Factors in Achieving The Perfect Balance of what Vehicles Can Fairly Fight others In a Perfect World, Every Real and-or slightly Funni Vehicle would’ve Be Available and Balanced Precisely That Is The Goal Quite Beautiful

[@TheWertsam]

Nice video, man. I would like to hear your opinion about CAS planes for soviet union at 8.3-9.0

[@BOKCGrizzlyWarlord]

Another option is perhaps the foreign South American variants of the M113. Some of them have 20 or 25 mm autocannons. A Chilean or Dutch variant would perhaps be suitable

[@donovanchau3483]

With the M114 since it was used for recon, do you think it should be given the scout ability? Paired with the APDS round it could be an alternative light tank to the M18 and M41A1 giving you an autocannon option over a conventional cannon. The APDS has 50mm of pen so it’s kinda usable.

[@GustSergeant]

Honestly, if the M42 Duster got its proximity fuze HE shell that it had in real life, that would help boost its efficiency quite a bit as an AA platform.

[@DawgIVLife]

Then it would also go up to 8.0 with the WZ 305

[@silvergrid5421]

@@DawgIVLife Imagine gaijin doing this, taking away even duster, leaving US mains with choice of M16 or M15 until 7.7

[@thegamingzilla6269]

M42 never had proxy, as 40mm proximity shells were a thing made by the navy and even then it was only limited use.

[@GustSergeant]

@@thegamingzilla6269 really? I thought I read somewhere that they had them.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@GustSergeant its a misconception, the idea is people reading about 40mm exploding on light folliage in vietnam its due to highly sensitive impact fuseing but some people think (without reading) it was due to proxy fuses (early versions had similar issues) that caused it.

[@Person22222]

i think that if spaa gets a buff in general and they add more amercian spaa, along with gaijin nerfing CAS by giving it a ground spawn and increasing the spawn point cost of planes especially with bombs ground will be fair.

[@martinhulin]

6:13 the MG151 is a 20mm cannon, the 50. Cal used by germans was the MG131

[@tigerbesteverything]

the best way to fix the american spaa line is just to give the duster proxy rounds, or it's tracking radar. But the easiest way to play spaa against air is to play on console, since you get arcade aim and even tracking (and yes it's broken as hell).

[@killroy05]

Ive always wanted to see tge Cadillac GAGE Commando

[@endlessbacontreats9916]

i thought i was the only person who saw how under powered the american spaa is since i never see anyone mention it. one thing that amazes is almost all spaas get an some form of a full ap belt but america suffers with most getting one or two crap ap rounds in between he

[@reinbeers5322]

There's a few you didn't include that could be far more potent. There's no specific name for it, but there exist pictures of an M2 halftrack with the "thunderbolt" turret from an Elco PT boat - 4x 20mm + 2x .50cals. T85E1 - quad 20mm on a Stuart-derived T65 chassis. XM246 - a competitor to the M247 Sgt. York, which it lost the competition to. Essentially a Gepard at home. Early M163s weren't fitted with the tracking radar (or it was removed and used as an IFV). Likely 7.3 material. AN/TWQ-1 Avenger, and its various configurations. There was at least one prototype of the Raduster - a Duster with a similar tracking and ranging radar to the M163. GLAADS - a research testbed for a low altitude air defense system. Twin 25mm guns.

[@DawgIVLife]

I took a look at most of those before making the video and many of those either would be the same BR like the avenger and Chaparral or for example the Half track with the Thunderbolt system really doesn't fix the problem of American having SPAA that are easily gunned out by cannon CAS. XM246 would be a nice addition to 8.3. At the end of the day It would be cool to get all of the SPAA but these vehicles are mainly support vehicles and not hype vehicles to gaijin.

[@reinbeers5322]

@@DawgIVLife the Thunderbolt turret is vulnerable yes, but no more than a Wirbelwind with its open topped turret and 16mm of armor on said turret. In return, you get even more firepower than one of the most infamous SPAAs in the game. Sounds like a fantastic 4.0-5.0 SPAA. The T85 is pretty vulnerable too, but again - 4x 20mm on a rotating turret is hard to argue with, and basically every other SPAA at these BRs is open topped.

[@NotQuiteAllHere]

Frankly, giving the Duster Proxy shells and moving it up is a good idea.

[@C_Harold]

as far as game balance goes it sort of makes sense for the nation with arguably the best fighter-bombers available to not have very good SPAA since theoretically CAS pilots should be able to shoot down planes, unfortunately that also means that dogfights over the battlefield are way too easy to get 3rd party'd by good spaa in spawn areas. I would love to see the 6x .50cal chaffee in the game as i think it would be even better than the M19 and M42 just based on gun velocity and armor

[@DawgIVLife]

T77 is still open top and it still would get gunned out by gun cas. Also the P47 is in a lot of other tech trees as well it’s not just America that has really good CAS if anything each nation has something

[@C_Harold]

@@DawgIVLife the Armor on the T77 would be enough to keep out 7.62 and small caliber HE rounds from planes which i feel is the main killer when im in an M19 or M42, also the P-47 is in a lot of other trees but America gets (in my opinion) better CAS planes at every tier where they dont have an SPAA like 5.7 to 6.3 where the USA has the AM-1, the AD's and the A-1H not to mention every good fighter USA gets has rockets and bombs. Just for the record I'm not really in favor of USA not getting any more SPAA but ive heard before that it was because the USA Air tree is so good. I would be thrilled to get the T77 or that .60cal one as those would be cool and unique!

[@TutterTactics]

I find that oddly the quad 50 works pretty well up to the m19 frankly my issue is the high tier stuff. there's a lot of viable prototypes for the US AA tree if gaijin would just take the time to care. Stuff like the Bradley Linebacker, IM SHORAD, and the Avenger could be easy additions to add to the game. What people also need to understand is once you start going into that high tier we really start seeing countries change in their doctrine. US has always kept a air superiority doctrine mind set meaning something like the Panstir or ITO or Flakrad dont really exist for America. If gaijin really cared to balance it out perhaps countries that lack mobile AA capability should get a cheaper A2A loadouts for planes.

[@fiakes7488]

I see the radar of the last vehicle only being a search radar.

[@DawgIVLife]

It’s a tracking radar just how good it would track is the question

[@lukeraven9155]

I like how he didn’t even show the Italian tech tree

[@DawgIVLife]

The Hungarian tech tree is quite nice

[@lukeraven9155]

@@DawgIVLife it did give Italy a zsu 23-4 witch is the radar unlike the sadam

[@kousand9917]

He didn't, but Italy has the R3, Leopard 40/70, and ZSU-57 so there fine

[@wardaddyiii5100]

I saw one with a 30m Vulcan as American SPAA but not sure on the information

[@M60A3]

Being stuck with the m42 for so long is kind of what made me stop playing the us tech tree

[@familyfehl9975]

Thank you!! The SPAA is so painful in this tech tree. I'm an American main and hate not having something usefull in uptiers

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

half the tech trees dont have any good spaa

[@silvergrid5421]

@@datcheesecakeboi6745 french 40mm spaa has better pen, better shot speed. Better acuracy. Don't forget amx 10p Germany .....just f u Ussr - btr152d/ Praga GB - Skink for god sake Italy - r3 t20 maybe not that great after br change but still way better China - I can't remember name but it's another ~23mm spaa Japan - yet another 20mm guest from future Swedish - ye.... actually not that great Israel - no tanks at 4 rank at all Not half at all. And comparing to other 'main' tech trees US is litteraly in uncompleted state from begining, and at the same time Germany had been granted with fully enclosed flakpanzer(not actually existent)

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

@@silvergrid5421 wow you dont play any other country right? the skink is literally one of the worse spaas out of all them

[@martijndaems6503]

Thanks for your content❤ ❤love war thunder Please add more spaa for isreal as well and apc (namer) with 30mm

[@robotic013]

One think Gaijin can do is just make the M42 duster a higher br and give it proxy rounds like it did irl

[@americanrice8600]

US used 40mm bofors for a long time, got better when we got proximity fuse ammo in ww2

[@Knot_Sean]

40mm ammunition didn’t get HE-VT available till about 1958-62, Well past ww2.. The proxy fused shell’s used a fuse that was 57mm’s large? Getting it down to the size capable of fitting to a 3” round was hard enough and HE filler had to be sacrificed sometimes. With the invention of transistors and shift away from vacuum tubes allowed shells to get much smaller from 3” to 60, 57, 42, 40. I’m pretty sure as of 2024 we have proximity .50” s though going below like 30mm’s it gets much harder to fit all of that in there, And makes AHEAD much better.

[@thatoneguy9843]

I love how you adress the relativly minor usa gap but not the super ultra mega spaa gap that is sweeden.

[@DawgIVLife]

maybe because the video is about america and not sweden yes they have a gap

[@thatoneguy9843]

@@DawgIVLife Naw bro. Loved the video, and I totally agree with you. I just wanted to make a joke, sorry if it didn't come off as funny as I intended.

[@seanalbertporal5711]

One of the things that piss me off is how they keep on nerfing the penetration valur of AA vehicles in US, we know its an AA not tank destroyers but why if its what its pen would suppose to be why nerf it?

[@nyx3988]

I have a idea 0 armor pen round for spaa that are higher than 4.0

[@roketsnail34]

Gaijin about to give germany the 50000th spaa without ever considering US since it doesnt have even a rank IV anti air:

[@debugden9172]

I've been wanting the T77 for like 6 years...

[@Z4KJ0N3S]

The M16 absolutely slaps. I honestly don't even care about having a "better" SPAA than that until we get to like, 7.0+.

[@r6sm043]

most spaa in general above 3.7 are either dog shit or have been nerfed to high hell(especially saclos missle spaa, the Roland's and 2s6 are so frustrating to play now) , imo anything that has a cannon calibre higher than 20mms should have either proxy or flak rounds (if there was a round made for that series of guns but on a different chassis i.e the wz305 and the zsu-57-2)

[@HMSHOOD1920]

Gaijin would never do that.

[@AlbionAirsoft]

Can it goose, go back and play the damn skunk and say that again!

[@brokengamer9675]

If they cant be bothered to add new SPAA then they could add HE-VT or Proxy fuse to the M42 that when used puts it at 5.3/5.7

[@DawgIVLife]

No that would put those vehicles at 8.0

[@brokengamer9675]

@@DawgIVLife no it wouldn't lmao, at most 6.7 because they don't have a radar and because they lack fire rate and turret traverse, they have to be compared to the Srgt York which is 9.0 with everything I just said.

[@DawgIVLife]

@brokengamer9675 yes and the WZ305 which has proxy rounds on a radar less ZSU-57 is 8.0. Once again the video is about how all nations should have parity not just make one of them OP which proxy shells at that low of a BR would do.

[@thegamingzilla6269]

M42 never operated proxy tho

[@brokengamer9675]

@@thegamingzilla6269 it uses dual Bofors 40mm canons which indeed did have proxy and VT.

[@k4tana_9]

Yeah this feels like it needs to be addressed. The only option for people playing up to rank 5 US is to either drag the M16 up to their br, which really starts struggling against jets, or use the M19 or Duster, which frankly, are absolute dogshit to learn for people that have never played them before. Despite the variety of prototypes and lesser known anti air that gaijin could add they still just give all the obscure, wood mockup vehicles to Germany.

[@jackgamer6307]

There needs to be "free" SPAA for ground RB, like drones or nukes.

[@hukorich8401]

oh noo, why there are no more 80 SP shit which i would research and play not moving a inch from spawn?

[@TrepidDestiny]

So the real world explanation is that the US has always relied on air superiority as opposed to close range air defense vehicles. Hence why most of the vehicles listed were just prototypes or test vehicles. The Gaijin answer is: "MmmmmmBecause? stfu and buy a premium plane for air defense."

[@Paronak]

the problem with WWII-era USA in real life, they focused so much on air superiority they never had to worry about shooting down enemy close air support. the best USA SPAA is a Corsair or Hellcat.

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

Problem is people that make that argument will also flip their lid when you tell them that according to that logic USA should be able to first spawn in unloaded planes. Or for the case of people saying "tanks might be bad but your CAS is good" when you tell them that according to their logic USA should be able to first spawn fully loaded CAS. Because they're idiots and don't understand game balance. Just because a nation has (x) thing that is good doesn't mean it's ok for their (y) thing to be shit. Especially when (x) requires doing well with (y) to even use it.

[@devlintaylor9520]

So players who arnt good at air battles are at a disadvantage playing US ground? That doesnt seem like sound logic. Add more AA or Let planes be grindable with ground battles

[@Paronak]

@@devlintaylor9520 dont play US then.

[@devlintaylor9520]

@@Paronak Im having plenty of fun in US without planes, but its silly to act like there isnt any problem. CAS should be grindable with ground battles, or they should add more AA

[@cwb7143]

The M42 wasn't bad, but at it's BR before the fucking nerf was decent. But they nerfed the fire rate, and I went WAAAY down in my ability to kill.

[@junior77254]

It would help to put clips of the vehicle u re talking about instead of another vehicle such an abrams

[@hyrumzaugg5749]

He literally did...?

[@jameswalker2081]

They gave britain the skink because it was a Canadian vehicle and Canada was a Commonwealth county

[@manuelzito3052]

Otomatic 11.3😢

[@arctan4547]

id rather the t85a2 (quad M3 cannon) for 6.7 m3's are one of the best 20mms in the game

[@billlhooo6485]

m1 AGDS gaijin when?

[@Spectrumlx]

BALANCE? IN WARTHUNDER? Nah you got it

[@oskarsander5921]

0:20 bro forgor Italy 💀💀

[@tsuaririndoku]

I think the reason why we don’t have much US SPAA is because in the war US doesn’t have much of the air superiority issue. I mean, what’s the point of building a moving AA guns when USN can covers you with Fighters.

[@treyclyn9184]

As someone who plays axis nations I support the AA gap when facing P51 and CAS spam 😊

[@blackopscw7913]

salty german main :) cry

[@treyclyn9184]

@@blackopscw7913 jokes on you I only have Japan and Italy fully researched. Germany, Russia, and France up to 6,7

[@silvergrid5421]

@@treyclyn9184 I support any actions leading to your kind of players to actually learn how to play instead of gaijin tying US player's hands behind their back to even match for you. It sounds even more pathetic knowing that you are having same planes as US has and on top of that having better AA

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

Literally every nation spams CAS. Most nations actually have better options for CAS than USA in most places. Stop acting like USA is the only nation with an air tree and the ability to spawn them in RB.

[@GOODENOUGH69420]

​@fire_drake12.arc.24 no it's different cuz murica

[@stansearcheslife6363]

Japan just sitting there lmao but ngl war thunder should make more folder spaa and so you can choose one of the 2 spaa in the folder or continue

[@stagiergnome6122]

I mean, they could just make the AA Sherman a tech tree vehicle

[@SuperTrb0]

The Americans should get the Advenger, and the M6 Linebacker. There is an SPAA version of the Stryker SHORAD as well.

[@DawgIVLife]

Most of these would go into BR brackets that already have a SPAA like the Linebacker would just be 10.0 with the LAV Advenger would be 9.3 with the Chaparral and the Stryker Shorad tbh would get the same treatment as the Adats and be considered a TD

[@skyrimn00b98]

Gaijin doesn't want real balance. They would probably be happiest with the US looking good on paper, but BR tiered in such a way that they lose every match.

[@Wuerger]

USA CAS is the main reason why the other nations got more spaa in lower brs…

[@AmaterasuOjo]

Correct.

[@Iden_in_the_Rain]

I run into more German and British CAS than US, though

[@Error-5478]

American planes are designed to work at higher altitudes. The US CAS falls apart as soon as someone brings in a spitfire or a Russian fighter.

[@Parkourboy86]

cas is opressive with most nations

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

Stop acting like no other nation has CAS. Most other nations actually have better CAS options at the same BRs.

[@HarveyAndToddTheWraith]

I'm not sure about those AA you mentioned but I agree that US need more AA

[@DawgIVLife]

its really all they have left

[@HarveyAndToddTheWraith]

@@DawgIVLife I remember I looked it up some time ago and there was a couple of US AA (prototypes of course) that could be added, not sure what BR and I don't remember exactly which one but there was something

[@SoulSl0th]

Just give us the Sherman AA variant

[@Delta-uv6dk]

Agree w you, the US needs more SPAA to fill the gaps that exist and give more options

[@JustAJetEnjoyer]

this is the exact reason i stopped grinding america, as well as the sherman spam. america needs more SPAA.

[@randomuser5443]

It doesnt get good till 10.0 with the lav

[@jasperhunter8386]

womp womp

[@reinyfrost3753]

@@randomuser5443M247 is pretty good and sits comfortably at 9.0. The M163, on the other hand, isn't that good (even for 7.7).

[@commanderkris93]

​@@jasperhunter8386 yap yap yap

[@CrustaceanAllergyEnjoyer]

​@@reinyfrost3753I miss when m247 was a ground unit destroyer when it had ap, the snail even gave me a talisman for it, just begging to be abused along with xm1

[@Knispel_Kurt]

Every other nation has AA just to defend themselves from 1000 lb rain

[@mcpuff2318]

Sweden doesn't have any proper SPAA between 4.3 and 8.3, worse than the US situation. Yes sweden has Lvkv 42 as a rank IV SPAA but it's still 4.3 like the M42. There is the ZSU-57-2 at 7.0 but that's basically a semi-TD and that's still a big gap down to 4.3. Swedish options for that gap would mainly be TriKA and various finnish gun trucks

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

the zsu is still an spaa, also thats standard britian has a gap of 5.3 and 8.3 and in total only has like 2 good spaas in game

[@Iden_in_the_Rain]

@@datcheesecakeboi6745 ZSU-57-2 doesn’t count as an SPAA, it’s essentially impossible to shoot things down with it unless you dump literal hours into figuring it out

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

@@Iden_in_the_Rain that's called a skill issue it 1 shots planes

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

@@Iden_in_the_Rain if we wanna exclude bad SPAAs then guess how many britian gets? 1 maybe 2

[@Iden_in_the_Rain]

@@datcheesecakeboi6745 and? If it doesn’t hit then you’re screwed, which is why fast-firing SPAA will always be better.

[@notazombie...notatall8577]

The answer for that is pretty simple, the same reason why gaijin hasn't added WW1 and pre WW2 vehicles, LAZINESS! To give America any of that they need to develop a new vehicles or a new platform, same for ww1/pre ww2 vehicles, it demands time and effort to develop a brand new and unique model for a vehicle, with a interesting design and uniqueness. Why do that when i can just copy and paste another Leopard or T-80 for a nation that doesn't need it. I absolutely hate how gaijin biggest efforts are put in top tier tanks, planes etc, they think that way they'll force more people to go there and get the "bRaNd nEw" stuff, well it just doesn't work for me, above 8.7 doesn't exist for me.

[@DawgIVLife]

They don’t do WW1 because there is zero money in it.

[@saltysteel3996]

US SPAA line is so bad.

[@cccc285]

War thunder will never let spaa be useful as that would make tank rb almost semi playable. We can’t have honest fair non toxic matches where people don’t abuse CAs. More often than not my tank ground battles always turn into air battles by the end of it. Such a shame it only depends on who stays on the ground and doesn’t hide in a plane the whole match is what wins the game

[@Namkify]

Ah yes, even more cold war stuff in the ww2 BR

[@DawgIVLife]

tbh why does it matter

[@angryeliteultragree6329]

NO GIVE ME THE US TIGER 2

[@Falcon.993]

I use the m6a1 as my AA

[@loneirregular1280]

Honestly the best SPAA would be the amazing fighters they have.