The Animation Industry is COLLAPSING

[@NoTheRobot]

Please share / hit the like button on this video so we can spread the word! 🙏 This video took me a long time to put together to get my facts & sources as accurate as possible. That being said, I'm only human (despite what my username might suggest) and I recognize that this situation is more nuanced than can be discussed in a single, 25 minute video. Things are changing rapidly, especially with the unions in negotiations as of posting this video. There can be a bright future ahead for animation, but only if we collectively push towards that future. *Regarding AI:* Frankly, this topic requires its own dedicated video because there's a lot of misinformation when it comes to what "AI" actually means and what it really does. I'll start writing that video, but in the meantime let me know what your thoughts are on AI / Machine Learning / Diffusion Models below!

[@JumperTV33]

Well I’ll like the video, but you severely overestimate how many people I know.

[@johnylitalo4163]

I'm just prejudiced against corporate giants, studio and network executives, tycoons and moguls and artificial intelligence because of their greed, lies and sins and I don't trust them, I don't care about them and I don't love them.

[@robertwurzburg6777]

Cartoon Saloon is an Indie Studio and they won an oscar for the Secret of the Kells.

[@NoTheRobot]

@@robertwurzburg6777 It was nominated but it lost to Pixar's Up. Great movie though!

[@jesterfeathers]

After the AI datasets stop being trained on copyrighted work, I couldn’t care less if AI exists. It’s just another form of competition, which is part of life. I actually think AI will make human-made art more valuable, because I don’t think most customers will want assembly line, manufactured entertainment; not because of any perceptible quality difference but on principle alone.

[@justinedc16]

My professor has been trying to tell us to make our own companies instead of being an employee for those big companies

[@skidfrog]

Not the best advice. ( and I worked as a professor as well as a supervisor in various departments ) It's true that once in a while someone comes along that is both an artist AND a good business entrepreneur ( Guillermo comes to mind ) but if you have both in abundance you have a chance. Otherwise....get in and learn the work first .

[@blinkx1070]

That only works until everyone else does the same. When there is suddenly 50,000 new animation studios, you'll be back to the same situation unfortunately.

[@why.do.I.even.try.]

​@@blinkx1070I doubt even 1% of those new 50k studio will survive more than 3 years. The truly talented, either in art or business, or even better in both, are always going to come on top, so if someone's a good enough judge of their capabilities and believe that they objectively stand a chance, they should go for it. It does suck for the rest of us though.

[@skidfrog]

@@why.do.I.even.try. .....That's what I was getting at.....there are a select few who can do it. My advice is rather than spend money on renting a studio space......spend it on finishing a great short film that attracts attention . IP is always worth something.....money wasted on renting a space you end up leaving anyway is just wasted money .

[@why.do.I.even.try.]

@@skidfrog Yepp I agree with everything you've said. I'll also get a day job to support my art so I'll be able to freely work on my pilot episode. I have no issues working long hours, so long as I enjoy what I do. I'm in it for the long run, and above all for my own enjoyment!

[@TimH-pu2dd]

I retired from the industry last year, questioning whether I was doing it prematurely. Your video helps me relax and trust I made the right choice. I started in 1980, back in the days of hand-drawn cel animation, and survived the transition to CGI back in the 90s. I’ve worked just contract-to-contract since 2006, just trying to hang on as long as I could. Very grateful to have made it this far, and I’m continually blown away by the magnitude of the talent filling the industry today, which far exceeds mine.

[@amyleah08]

I have so much love for animation, and I really respect you for sticking with it for so long. Thank you for your contributions to animation

[@johnsonbangura3074]

Thanks for your service, are you fully retired or are you doing a different career?

[@mariapholguin]

Omg that's so cool

[@canobenitez]

is there any hope for 2d?

[@DoveJS]

@canonbenitez I'm not OP but 2D is perfectly viable it just won't happen unless it's mostly or completely digital. That said, studios switched to 3D because 2D animators created a union in the USA while 3D animators hadn't, at least to my understanding, so the executives will almost never bother because they're stingy AF and determined to pump everything out at a breakneck speed. Please correct me if I'm wrong, @TimH-pu2dd

[@PikaPetey]

I spent the greater part of a decade of my life learning the very difficult craft to be an animator..... only to get slapped in the face

[@MBThomas]

That’s saying a lot coming from you. When even PikaPetey is depressed by the industry, we’ve fucked up as a species.

[@CryptTheNecromancer]

I've been working hard to try and get into the industry, now I'm hearing it may never happen. I can relate to this.

[@doopiss]

Bro you make Cool Cat Undertale Brainrot

[@PikaPetey]

@@doopiss Bro, shit i post on this youtube channel isn't what I send to studios for applications. chill.

[@doopiss]

@@PikaPeteyendlessly making parodies in a style that isn’t unique is the real reason why your job is threatened by AI lets be real. That’s why a computer is able to do your job

[@stephaniec3022]

Corporate greed is killing animation. It's not the fans, it's not the artists. It's the greedy CEOs and shareholders. I hope that supporting indie artists (like super popular ones: Ramshackle, Lackadaisy, and The Amazing Digital Circus) will help the animation industry, and I hope the animators guild strike helps them win against the big companies

[@mcruz4571]

If what you say were true, that the fault lies with "the corporations" then.....where corporations do not exist everything should work perfectly...right?....under this logic indie productions should be the most popular in the world...after all, indie productions go directly from the artist to the public....right?....na.....at the end of the day the market rules, demand rules, indies would be popular If people paid to see them and this doesn't happen... in the end it is always the public that decides.

[@zettovii1367]

​@@mcruz4571 It's not like the audience has control over what gets created though. The decisions about what content is greenlit are ultimately still made by publishers. The only exceptions being of course the independents, when some of those have gotten popular as of late, which could suggest the public may actually be compelled to seek out better quality, if anything.

[@hohnmcransi54]

​@@mcruz4571False dichotomy, corportations can be a problem without being the only problem. Also do we want to talk about the sheer amount of money dedicated to a matketing budget that can sometimes outstrip the entire production budget that these corporations have that indie studios do not? Your points are fake and so are your jordans.

[@aurematic]

greed is killing e-ve-ry-thing

[@verilyze]

And you are not greedy you are also disliking it because of money Dont pretend you give a damn about animation If you did then you would thrilled for ai to surpass the threshold So accept you are troubled by your earning not by the medium itself

[@RichardServello]

There’s a big problem now with the whole concept of sharing your work because you never know who’s gonna see it. Now you also never know who’s gonna scrape it and steal it.

[@TheDr502]

Yeah, art theft sucks, but it's worth the risk, IMO. How else will anyone see your work if you don't put it out there?

[@GabrielleTollerson]

exactly

[@cyberblueangel]

And/or feed it to AI :/

[@calebs4755]

@@cyberblueangelthats what data scraping is

[@alzamonart]

And that's why I Glaze/Nightshade all artwork I publish on social media these days. Might not be the best thing against AI grifters but it's the best we've got so far.

[@mintman325]

Corporate suits will never understand artists. I patiently waited a decade for The Boy and The Heron. It was worth every minute. If you say to the average American, “I’m going to work on this project for the next decade.” They’ll look at you like you’re crazy.

[@moscacrackreina4457]

no, they will say: "Only that? I have been trapped in my shitty job for 40 years and i need 20 more to be able to retire, oh wait, oopsie doopsie i dont have a retirement plan, i shouldn't have voted for a world of free market and conservatives, what a life, huh?" i am sorry. i shouldn't have done this.

[@blinkx1070]

Japanese animators are also horribly overworked and underpaid as well.

[@JanusHoW]

The corporate suit and the artist are complete and total opposites.

[@0plush]

Look up Atrocity Guide's video on The Overcoat if you want to see the ultimate extreme end of this. The video specifically is called "The Animators Who've Spent 40 Years on a Single Film". The amount of passion is insane.

[@tobyzilla]

I literally vision people in business suits as greedy and corrupt people

[@user-ww3jz3ql5d]

Here in Brazil, all the studios are like "Indie Studios." There is no animation industry, so we fight every day for every single production we can achieve. There is no budget, even considering Brazil is the second biggest market for streaming and TV business. But Netflix canceled the Kids and Family business here, and all other TV and VOD did the same. We only have productions of True Crime, Reality Shows and "Novelas". But we kept doing what we could. We produce animated promos, bibbles, and full development of shows, and travel around the world to sell the content and get financing to produce here. But like every place right now (besides Canada), we are struggling to find money to produce our content. And it's looking harder and harder ...

[@Grynz]

pelo menos voltamos a ter editais

[@123goldenlily]

If you get a projector/portable movie screen you could play indie projects on it, but you would still have to find places to play them

[@valeywamiel3217]

Eu sou um animador iniciante, espero que as coisas fiquem melhores pra gente aqui, o Brasil é um país bem criativo, quem sabe daqui uns anos a gente não ultrapasse as grandes empresas

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@Exsulator2]

6 months later, has anything changed?

[@TangsTails]

Many of these big Hollywood studios don't have creative people at the top, which doesn't make any sense for a creative business. It's like if Van Gogh was managed by a muppet. My hope is that indie animators, like myself, can form the animation studios of the future and allow human creativity/happiness to thrive while still being a profitable business. I think Cartoon Saloon is a good example of a studio already doing this.

[@BarKeegan]

This is the way, creator owned first

[@jmhorange]

Disney was a creative led indie studio in the first half of the 20th century that differed from Warner Brothers and MGM in that they were executive led studios. Disney was the last hold out on unionization which led to the historic 1941 strike. Executives are not the bad guys. They often provide the necessary means to make sure what artists do is profitable (Even Disney, who prized art over the welfare of his artists had a business minded brother who prevented him from bankrupting the studio many times). Any leader of a studio, creative or not that doesn't have respect for their workers and their craft is the problem. Sure a creative led studio with 8 people, yeah the boss is probably friends with all of them, and will look out for them, but will they look out for their employees when it's a 100 people, 200 people? We need to hold studio owners accountable for their workers and also realize unionization is our right to stand as equals with our employer, not a burden or mistrust of the studio. We should not worry about whether studio leaders are artists or not.

[@noahbossier1131]

Makes sense it seems like they can’t compete against TikTok. It sounds like they are giving up on making scripted tv shows. They want toy sales in the 80s

[@SpoopySquid]

The CEOs' job isn't to foster creativity, but generate revenue for shareholders

[@noahbossier1131]

@@SpoopySquid I know but AI isn’t even profitable it’s not making a profit and once the bill comes in the AI companies will jack up prices

[@SlobZombie]

Sidenote : i love how beautiful and creative the 1940s animators strike signs are

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@CircuitArcade]

​@@SCHOOLERstylemost tame bot spam I've seen 😂

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

@@CircuitArcade YOU HAVE ZERO VIEWS HAHA!!! 🤣🤣🤣

[@geikosera]

I saw Cartoon Network shut down and dismantled from the inside and it was heartbreaking. 😿

[@mayoshixi]

Dang, it is beyond depressing how animators still continue to struggle in the face of corporate greed even to this day... Animated films have always been pretty much my favorite art form my entire life, with its capability to tell stories without the limitations of our comparatively boring real life world... Movies like Wall-E, How To Train Your Dragon or The Fantastic Mr. Fox moved me as a kid, and still do so as an adult... I don't want to imagine a world without animated films created by humans passionate about their craft, just because some guys in suits feel like having another private jet.

[@Sherif-the-Watcher]

True, facts facts facts

[@NoTheRobot]

🫰🫰🫰

[@furcomedia2089]

time to go to the indie animation movies

[@DavidWheeler85]

i hear you people always complain about corporate greed corporate greed.. but you dont realize its UNION GREED that is ruining everything

[@furcomedia2089]

@@DavidWheeler85 conclusion, capitalism is ruining everything

[@barbi111]

These big Studios can't see their problem. They are thinking their problem is cost and make things more effective and faster, but the real problem with them that they don't listen to what their customers WANT.

[@NoTheRobot]

Unfortunately to give them what they want would cost money, which is their least favorite thing to do

[@barbi111]

@@NoTheRobot Fact

[@vincenthoule5643]

They won't make a comeback with 2d animation.

[@noahbossier1131]

@@NoTheRobotit’s because private equity

[@-JaggedGrace-]

I don't think they even KNOW what their customers want tbh. All they really seem to understand is that sequels and spectacle draws crowds more reliably. But they don't know why people get attached to characters and stories, or how to honor them in a way that doesn't piss off their audience.

[@lasercraft32]

I hate how animation (and art in general) is NEVER treated with the respect it deserves, throughout history there's been nothing but disrespect. I will take great pleasure in watching all of these future AI animated movies flopping once they realize that people hate AI. We'll be able to tell, and people will not like it.

[@MamaMOB]

Art doesn't deserve respect. Not any more respect than say the cheeseburger a cook makes. Art is just a product to be sold to the masses. Otherwise they can keep that shit to themselves.

[@allanredhill8682]

​@@MamaMOB there is def truth in treating your art like a product. However comments like this read less like a reality check and more like self righteous bitterness. Artists have been absolutely pissed on by literally everyone at this point - be it out of jealousy, greed etc. People will do literally everything to avoid fairly compensating artists for their work (and dont get it twisted art IS work). All the while companies want to gaslight us into being happy of being exploited because art is our passion after all, so we should be lucky right? Im fed up with this shit and other people being so damn tone deaf about it ^^

[@bobjoe5851]

@@MamaMOByou are pathetic

[@luciel234]

​@@MamaMOBJust admit that you're shit at drawing if you're going to resort to insulting art as a medium of self-expression and as the cornerstone of all global culture.

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

Animation doesn't get the recognition it deserves largely because since the '60's animation was consumed by the public as cartoons for kids on TV (which was mainly a vehicle for advertising) which were mostly adaptations of sitcoms (The Flinstones was modelled after The Honeymooners, Top Cat was modelled after The Phil Silvers Show etc). In the US cartoons and comic books were seen as "kid stuff," as opposed to the higher regard of such in Europe, and not taken seriously with the age old "I don't want it done well, I want it done Thursday!" ...

[@bonyan127]

3D Animator from Vancouver here, and I can say that its just as bad in Van right now as the rest of the world. Majority of artists have been unemployed for months and many for over a year. Older veterans have been forced to leave the craft they've worked their whole life to master and try finding work in another industry, while fresh graduates look lost and hopeless thinking they've made the wrong decision to follow their dreams of becoming animators. The lucky few who have been hired to work on a project are being underpaid (as the studios are aware of how many people are starving for a job) and are only given 3 month contracts with no guarantees. They've also developed anxiety from feeling "rusty" after months or a year of not being able to work in production and not given any leeway to get adjusted to the pipeline again. They dread coming to work knowing they could be replaced at anytime if they are underperforming no matter how valid the reasons are. Don't believe the hype of work being outsourced to Canada. It's bad here right now and it'll keep getting worse based on how things are shaping up. The world will be lucky if the current VFX and Animation industry is still around 10 years from now.

[@primus0348]

3D artists and Animator from Ontario here, honestly...its fucking sad with what's happening with us Artists, both 2D and 3D, Digital and Traditional, i love this Job but its so sad how it is being treated by these Corps, its really sad...

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@marcelopadillacastillo4683]

You are 100% spot on. I worked for 3 years in the Vancouver anim industry. The salaries are trash considering that Vancouver is the most expensive city in Canada. We get underpaid and overworked. I’m quitting the industry, it’s not worth it considering the skill needed to do the work.

[@theintrovertedaspie9095]

​@@SCHOOLERstyleGood.

[@timtam3730]

As much as people give Illumination a lot of flak, they're like the only animation studio that has ever come out and say no to AI and they did it using a Super Bowl AD

[@meomeo3510]

As a Canadian 2D artist who was laid off (and most of my fellow Canadians I know in the industry who have been laid off for almost 1-2 years now, some seeking alternative careers), it’s not going great here. There is no work here either right now. The reason we are huge as service studios is also because the Canadian dollar is worse than the US dollar, same time zones and same language. However, Canadians have started to stick up for ourselves and demand more pay, which has made Canadian studios more expensive. A lot of animation 2D industry workers here in Canada didn’t make a living wage until 2020 due to being paid by frame instead of salary. People in the Canadian animation industry have a fear of unionizing because of fear of becoming less desirable to big studios in the US, because we cannot support a Canadian led industry because we don’t have the same kind of financial investment as the big US studios. We are even seeing more work that would typically go to Canada go to other cheaper countries. So it’s a weird situation to be in here also. I wish that there was more work available for everyone. Sucks that animation is so tough right now across the globe. I wish we had more animation investments that weren’t driven solely by the big US companies

[@user-iu1ru1qz7u]

You said it yourself, Canada only had an animation industry because it cost less while being nearby. This means that production in the USA, with their idiotic unions and salaries was simply TOO EXPENSIVE. Which means the stupidest thing Canadians can do is.... demand a union and higher salaries! Yet that's exactly what every idiot in our industry is peddling, feeling entitled to it just because they want it. Getting paid per frame is brilliant, it means the ceiling of your earning is your own ability, it also removes the trash from your team. If you can't make a living working per frame, you simply aren't good enough, and if we pay you a salary it only means you'll be dead weight for the rest of the team to carry. Canadians are way too attached to progressive woke ideals and never once think of working harder.

[@edenxela]

​​@@user-iu1ru1qz7u Imagine that single frame takes you 10 or more hours only for $25 Taking it as an example, I'm not sure how much they pay per frame in Canada) There's some things that are complicated, even for more skilled folks

[@skitterly]

I heard that the US was starting to outsource to Canada because of American unions. Hmm, I wonder if if they can coordinate to improve North American animation overall

[@user-iu1ru1qz7u]

@@skitterly not starting, it's been that way for a long time. Costing less is blessing for Canada, and just about the only reason work gets sent here(while being nearby, and time zones and language).

[@Daimando]

@@skitterly Unions should be worldwide.

[@TrancorWD]

I'm ex-Blue Sky, we could tell things were changing long before the official acquisition and then shutdown... Its just sad disney went that route... Doesn't change the fact this has been a ripple moving through animation studios since before rhythm and hues went bankrupt. Ai on top of all this now is a complete mess, because they are still going to need people to fix it if its used as an entire "production" team, When it should just be prepping and processing tools, we were cutting all the corners we could pre- and post-sim for shots (by making automated pipeline tools)

[@-JaggedGrace-]

Disney is scum now, and I have not bought any of their stuff in years

[@kootunesscrewy]

I hope you can stick with indie...

[@tfk884]

​@kootunesscrewy working on indie? That is hilarious. What people outside of the Animation industry doesn't understand is that it takes a minimum $120,000/year salary to survive in California. NAME ONE INDIE STUDIO WHO CAN PAY THAT MUCH. and don't even try to say "then move out of california". Everywhere else in america is literal redneck cities.

[@TrancorWD]

Honestly, gaming has proven indie works, bout time for animation & film/production

[@JWPanimation]

I'm Blew Sky myself, wishing you the best.

[@MBThomas]

"All I want to do is the thing I love, doesn't everybody?" That line is from Cat's Don't Dance. One of my favorite movies, as a child the only thing that came to my mind whenever I'd watch it is "HAHAHA Funny Aminals!" I was 5 when that movie initially came out. As an adult, I look back on this movie and see a bit of myself in it and how I just want to do something that makes me happy for a living. Looking at all this news from the mainstream animation industry puts a tear to my eye, I can only hope we go through with this strike and send those three-piece suit wearing assholes a message.

[@llynhunter]

You saw Cats Don't Dance:The greatest animated film of all time is Iron Giant done by Turner Studios rigt after that. I bet you didn't get to see that film as a kid. Warner Bros. killed its distribution when it bought Turner Animation. If you haven't seen it, go get a copy to watch, now. Also, a strike will do nothing. It didn't stop work from going overseas in the late 80's; it will not stop AI from coming.

[@annien.1727]

Oh, I LOVE that movie! It's one of my favorites! I resonate highly with Danny. He's like me in a way: optimistic, ambitious, determined to fulfill your dream. Even when everyone else quit, he didn't. He kept on going, despite what everyone said. He fought hard to do what he loved, and I plan to do the very same! Even now, I'm fighting to save Disney from ruin and also save the animation industry from collapsing. I know it's almost impossible to fulfill such a Herculean task, but Walt Disney once said, "It's kind of fun to do the impossible".

[@MBThomas]

@@llynhunter First of all, I have seen the Iron Giant. I didn't see it in theaters because it didn't initially catch my eye. But I agree that the movie is great. Just because I prefer a movie that came before it doesn't make me any lower than the average movie watcher. You know, I expect this level of pessimism to come from an edgy teenager. But after checking your work, I guess something must have happened in your life that result in every bit of hope you used to have being drained.

[@MBThomas]

@@annien.1727 Personally, I think Walt would be more impressed with the rise of independent animators. I KNOW he hated the idea of unions and probably planned to bankrupt UPA at some point (this is just a theory, mind you), BUT I rarely hear stories about him talking shit about his competitors (WB, Walter Lantz, and Fleischer). While a lot of people tend to give it the side-eye, indie animation is definitely making the rounds on the internet and inspiring others to make their own cartoons, myself included. If you want to help save Disney, that's fine. Just know that they are playing a hand on why we're striking in the first place.

[@emmadilemma4177]

Cats Dont Dance was one of my biggest inspo as a kid wanting to dapple into animated movies as a dream job because i love drawing cartoon characters present day, though right now im just left with "Well what now" feeling because college/mentorship feels pointless to me and i have no experience in Indie projects either but on a small plus side i am just doing that rn, drawing cartoons for myself and Warcraft commissions that put a smile on people's faces and art charity auctions to quote a meme "Its Not Much but its Honest work"

[@ItsMeFern2019]

When I was a kid I wanted to grow up to be a professional artist/animator, and now as an adult being a self-taught amateur seems like all I'll ever be. There's hope through Indie Animation but the big corporations ofc don't care about their workers or making something with real effort. Animators can be given a project that they'll pour weeks of work into only for some higher up to cut it with no justice to the people who worked on it. Now they're taking any chance they can to completely replace humans with AI all for the sake of cheap corner-cutting. It's so SO discouraging.. I hope that someday being an artist will be a livable long-term way to work. :(

[@jomo2483]

This is why Miyazaki still makes movies at 80. He created his own thing. That's the way you beat the suits. Especially the modern CEOs who only care about bonuses and stock prices. No job is safe.

[@heitorsantoslima9289]

I mean, Ghibli is the exception to the rule. They still operate by the rules of corpo shenanigans, they make ads, shorts, music videos, heck, Ghibli was under Tokuma Shoten ownership for te majority of its existence, which was a major communication conglomerate well deep into schemes, probably yakuza involvement and financial wars. Ghibli today is the property of one of the biggest TV channels in Japan and I don't know if this channel is owned by another conglomerate. They aren't as independent or non-commercial as they seem.

[@NelsonStJames]

@@heitorsantoslima9289 Definitely an exception to the rule. Even in America when you see a successful movie of any type that has a decent budget and is not a franchise or remake, it's directors who have been in the game for a long time and reached a level of autonomy that beginning filmmakers don't have. Odds are you won't see another Miyazaki in Japan for a very long time.

[@heitorsantoslima9289]

@@NelsonStJames Yeah, he also had the privilege of starting in animation in a time where this wasn't a work for freelancers, but people got worker's right (Toei and early TV anime - Part 2: the rise of gekiga anime (1966-1968) - Animétudes) so he had a degree of security that animators don't have today. Considering the struggle animators deal in Japan today, having an average of 3 years in the industry and leaving due to exhaustion... we won't see another Miyazaki for a veery long time.

[@Tfichtenbaum]

Miyazaki told Disney off when they wanted to edit his film princess mononoke ....that's is balsey as heck

[@heitorsantoslima9289]

@@Tfichtenbaum Actually, Miramax, more specifically Weinstein. And more specifically, he and Toshio Suzuki wanted to see the cut Weinstein would do just to reject it out of curiosity, but Steve Alpert talked them out of it.

[@Yntsire]

The pandemic has taught me many things: - Creative labor is so valuable, people will do literally anything they can to not fairly compensate the creators for it. - Employers, execs, c-suite, etc abosolutely *DISPISE* the fact that they have to comepnsate you *AT ALL* for your labor. - The people at the top making the decisions are in a endless race-to-the-bottom to give thesmelves/investors/c-suite as much profit as possible before jumping out with their golden parachute and leaving cleaning up their bad decisions someone else's job. - Despite how much they comically hoarde wealth like dragons the execs, c-suite, investors, and other monied groups treat money/resources like its fake Monopoly money. And the big one: - The harder a company/industry pushes against unionizing, the more you have to gain and they have to lose if you form a union.

[@rumfordc]

if greed is the only problem, and you aren't greedy, sounds like you should take out a loan and become an employer. then you can pay the animators as much as you want :) right?

[@fudgen.a1249]

I’d also like to add that there will always be people, even those under you or in a generally worse position than you, will think all of this is okay,and will actively try to fight you, or anybody, on bettering the situation in any capacity, even if said improvements benefit them as well.

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@Skitskl33]

​@@rumfordcmost Ceos at entertainment companies don't have to take the risk of starting a business from the ground up like Walt Disney did. They get hired in, so kinda dishonest to compare them to entrepreneurs.

[@rumfordc]

@@Skitskl33 kinda dishonest to pretend i ever said "ceo" anywhere here. either take the risk in paying someone else for their "invaluable" labor or dont, the title you choose is irrelevant.

[@ariadnemeo7360]

I honestly can't wait to see a Indie animation studio win a Oscar Edit: this thing exploded, so I'll drop a link to the indie animation I've made with my twin kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5u7YqimZ5idbsksi=hMYHPWQJAKpOnQ4S

[@Sketchnificent]

That’s gone be the biggest middle finger to the big corporate companies and I can’t wait to see it.

[@yamataichul]

The Oscars are the corporate version of prestigious honoring without the express permission of true visionaries

[@blinkx1070]

That would require every major studio to not release a movie that year unfortunately

[@SkyRocket159]

Who cares about the Oscars nowadays

[@ariadnemeo7360]

@@SkyRocket159 hahahahah true XD

[@DavvyKat]

Even if the animation industry is like this right now, I can’t give up as a creator yet. I will continue to draw and make my own stuff and make good animations. I hope one day, the animation industry will rise from the ashes. To all creators out there, please, I implore you, don’t give up.

[@bluwasabi7635]

sage advice

[@lorettabes4553]

Let's do it together!

[@ITBEurgava]

Come up with your own projects and start small. If it fails, you fail fast, and move on to a new one. It's what Extra Credits taught me.

[@Ssskullkrusher]

Thank you.❤

[@Meraxes6]

Skilled human artists will stand out more than ever in the future. Stay strong 👊

[@amyleah08]

How to Train Your Dragon is by far my favorite western animated movie (if I started talking about Japanese animation I'd never stop). Everything about it is beautiful; the animation, the voice acting, the score, the editing, the writing, the story, the themes, the character models, the *animation.* The film came out when I was 2 years old, so I literally grew up with it and I still have the dvd to this day. As a neurodivergent person, Hiccup's story resonated with me on such a deep level since I was little, even if I didn't really know why. I love the movie so much that I could write an entire essay about it.

[@awesomepantsfilms]

Bro you’re making me feel old 💀 It’s also one of my favorite western animated films (there’s only a few more I like as much), I’m glad it connected with you like that. I feel the same way about it.

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@sleepybleghh]

Indie studios like GLITCH and Lackadaisy among others are creating amazing work because they are artists not held back by the CEOs of big corps. If anyone here somehow hasnt checked out many indie shows u should definetly catch up theyre amazing! some of them that i recently watched were monkey wrench and ramshackled !

[@prowolf633]

It is not the end of the animation! We need to keep fighting and showing it support until it gets the better treatment it deserves! Parts of this include unionizing the animation guild, finally firing David Zaslav, bring back all the animated content he cancelled and shelved, possibly get Cartoon Network a new studio building, and making Disney have their cartoon shows (especially Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur) last much longer than 3 or 4 seasons.

[@NoTheRobot]

Yes! Like I said, the animation industry will survive but we need to take decisive action now

[@PlayStonkers]

Good luck with that. I spent forty years of my life trying to be a cartoonist and ultimately learned it's not worth it. Dreams don't come true, the average person hates cartoons and the people who make them, and there's no point in fighting the masses. I gave up on everything and now my only goal is staying alive while making another dime-a-dozen crappy KZbin show. There's no hope, there's just what the masses want. It's depressing, it's miserable, but it's life. What more can I say? Just accept defeat. It's easier that way.

[@Swampert384]

@@PlayStonkersWith an attitude like that, it’s not surprising you’ve found yourself in this position. I’m sorry to say it, but a huge part of one’s prospects and aspirations is their attitude. The real issue with cartoons is typically the writing above all else, not the animation. And when you have shows like Bluey showcasing what good writing and good animation can do when brought together, it’s clear to see they’re not hated. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself, “Do I concede, or overcome the obstacles in my path?”

[@Swampert384]

As long as these shows don’t go the route of The Simpsons and have too many seasons, you’re right. And yes, definitely show David Zaslav the door.

[@PlayStonkers]

@@Swampert384 I was on the other side. I was in the world where I believed there was no way to fail and was convinced I would show the world that I could make it no matter how much they all said it was stupid. It wasn't so much an issue of mindset, but just not the right person, place, or time.

[@jessewinchester]

Animation is more than escapism. Quality storytelling has offered humanity a profound opportunity to reflect on who we are. Solid vid. 💙

[@Mx.muffin]

EXACTLY. Animation and everything else creative is the epitome of the human experience. It's truly what makes us human, as you see throughout all of human history how creative we really are

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@crandria2001]

I am commenting to help the algorithm. I don't usually comment but as an artist I feel like this is really important.

[@NoTheRobot]

Appreciate the comment & boost!

[@jaypixelguy]

Me too. This is important for aspiring artists to watch 😢

[@Bandy-artz]

​@@NoTheRobot True

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@SkullDixon]

The lockdown on portfolio material, because the company killed a production, is such a huge crime. This is why I find that its important to try and keep copies of your work, even if the company policy says not to do that.

We just need new indie studios. There was a heavy rise in the number of freelance/indie studios are the infamous 1941 Disney strike... I think, even with the bleak state, and GenAI and all, it's still possible to band together and make new indie studios.

[@MeganRoseGreene]

thank you for shouting out production workers. we’re often the first to arrive last to leave, and often get ignored in discussions of workers’ rights.

[@AMWCYt]

As an aspiring Animation Artist and Part of the creative collective, I know it's hard to say that the Animation Industry is on a brink of Collapsing, but I think it's high time to support the Indie Projects and support the Strikes by IATSE and The Animation Guild and the Animation Artists every way possible. Because, if we can't act now, the animation as an artistic media will die from suffering by capitalism. It's now or never. Thanks for explaining this. We have the power and voice to change this whole matter. Let's do this. We're all in this, Together.

[@owl9130]

I'm thinking of working for Flying Bark Studios. They've started working on 2d animations and they're the most amazing animations I've seen. Their main inpirations are apparently mappa and trigger. Although they arent as popular or well known, I want to be a part of that.

[@AMWCYt]

@@owl9130 yeah. The Flying Bark Studios. The Studio behind Rise of the TMNT, Glitch Techs and Marvel's Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Yeah, that's a Great Animation Studio when it comes to 2D Animation.

[@SCHOOLERstyle]

🤣 i create better animations on my channel than AI generated junk 🤣

[@PotatoOfAwesome]

This is an existential nightmare that's persisted for about a year now. Whether or not I'm being irrational or reasonable, I am incapable of giving up even if I wanted to. As much as it sucks to trudge along not knowing whether it'll all be in vain, I'll stick around.

[@bealns7356]

Good! I'm with you!!! I love doing this too much to give up now! It's going to be us who are willing to stick it out even when it seems impossible

[@Ninja52157]

Same here.

[@Paradox-vu9ro]

I’d rather live in poverty than give up the one thing I have left to live for. I will keep creating because it is my passion, not my job. This is my life and I will continue to live it the way I want to.

[@oshea_entertainment]

I've always wondered why it seems as though fans of an IP know more about how to handle said IP than the actual companies owning it😅

[@NoTheRobot]

Sometimes the execs have never heard of the IP that they get assigned to work on

[@skidfrog]

if you worked in the industry you'd understand......companies own the IP....but individual execs often suddenly think THEY are the creative geniuses and fire the original creative geniuses

[@noahbossier1131]

@@NoTheRobota lot of executives seem to hate animation. A lot of them are trying to get out of animation and get into live action. They never wanted to work in animation and wanted to be in live action.

[@andrewgrant6612]

Shareholders............they have to answer to them first.

[@noahbossier1131]

@@andrewgrant6612 yeah and a lot of these shareholders don’t invest in industry they flip houses and they want to sell the stock when it’s high to invest in different stock. It’s basically private equity

[@meowing_wolf]

I’ve been interested in animation my whole life but had struggled with mental health for so long that I could never make much progress with simple still images, let alone a lengthy animated feature. I’m getting to a much better place mentally and don’t feel the same intense strain I used to when I draw, and I’m hoping to keep it going so I can actually make animation as a career. Learning about the current state of the animation industry is disheartening for sure, but knowing that there are people out there who deeply care about preserving human jobs like you does help. Thank you for informing me about this, and keep up the good fight.

[@Fairygoblet]

Just make sure that you continue to bolster your mental health, as the industry can be quite stressful from what I've heard. I believe in you :-)

[@harrydunkwu7655]

Producers are very key players in this mix. They are the mediators of the business between Execs and Artists. We must implore them to uphold integrity and not sabotage the creative arm of the animation industry!

[@geikosera]

Producers are untrustworthy...

[@TheEvolver311]

​@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue Animation is probably the only form of graphic art that has only ever really existed as an industry

[@TheEvolver311]

@ithurtsbecauseitstrue set building, scripting, acting, etc...actually all have roots in stage acting. Most of the stuff involved in film makes preexisting film by centuries or multiple millennium. Even movie scoring is rooted in opera and theater. It's funny people forget that these things existed prior the prestige and money the film industry has now. that acting as a profession prior to film/TV was viewed as low class, with actors often being lumped in with prostitutes and criminals. No animation is really the only facet that was whole cloth born in and because the film industry existed already. Tbf cameraman etc..obviously needed cameras to exist so those 2 facets lol

[@TheEvolver311]

@ithurtsbecauseitstrue it's because you implied I need to "move back to the creators" were I'm saying that as an art form animation only exists because the film industry birthed it, while all the other stuff pre-existed and would have continued to exist if motion pictures were never created. So animation is a unique art form for many reasons but not the least of which being that it only exists because of business interests.

[@TheEvolver311]

@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue so you spent a few paragraphs to say it doesn't matter if what I said isn't accurate it feels good

[@GIRGHGH]

Every part of the entertainment industry is collapsing right before I'm prepared to join in... it's really scary but it makes me really determined to fight against wrong practices from day one.

[@Dexter01992]

"We need to ask ourselves what kind of sad world do we live into, where the automatization of jobs is a threat to the livelyhood of those who can't afford to lose it, instead of a tool to reduce the burden of work for everybody to benefit from?" - A quote I've seen when this whole AI mess begun in 2022.

[@primus0348]

i never saw it as a mess until this year with SoraAI, now i am aware of how bad things can be with this Tool being used in the wrong hands

[@ProjectKhopesh]

Entertainment on the whole is suffering from poor executive decisions, from bad economics to sociopolitical agendas to poor writing. These were avoidable problems, but decision makers simply won't pay attention to the market. It will definitely be interesting to see how it all settles out. AI is the monkeywrench in the system, to be sure, and it's not really even helping indie productions either. Maybe some computer assistance is useful, like the physics system in Cascadeur, but ful-on generative SORA-style stuff isn't really going to be controllable (or ethical) enough to be usable.

[@makingthestorybetter]

Animation industry isn't collapsing. Hollywood is and this is a good thing. With technology advancing and people growing tired of garbage from big name studios, a smaller team of animators and film makers will be able create the same projects that take a thousand people. While Hollywood is collapsing, places like Austin and Utah are growing.

[@DarthBiomech]

On one hand it's good, on the other hand if the big industry collapses, big projects will also go extinct. Studios have lots of bad stuff going about them, but the thing that sucks is that nobody else can provide you with quarter of a billion dollars to make your bombastic epic project either.

[@her_ama_ni]

Facts

[@miriades]

@@DarthBiomechwell it doesn’t bother me if there is no epic bombastic projects for a while either, most of them are crap nowadays. Indie will not hurt at all with new fresh ideas and with technology progress, few will be able to do the work of thousands.

[@DarthBiomech]

@@miriades > most of them are crap nowadays. So is most of indie (No really, you didn't even heard of like 99% of indie animations, because for 90% of them they're known by like five people tops, the rest 9% are also unknown, but less fairly so), your point? Epic bombastic projects are crap because they're meddled with by the executives and producers, not because they're epic and expensive. It isn't "for a while", it's "never", if the major studios all will go away. What crowdfunding Kickstarter is going to collect 100 million dollars for an animation series?

[@R.A.A04]

this is such an important discussion. animation has my dream, working and creating within the industry has been my goal. i started my animation degree with a lot of naiveté, but as i'm growing closer to graduating, i realise how much the industry is truly collapsing. but it's not making me scared, but making me realise what my true calling is (as cringe as that sounds). with whatever privilege and knowledge i have been blessed with, i will work my hardest to make even just a corner of this industry more stable for its workers. i want to create an environment where creativity and originality gets rewarded, where talent can be strengthened and artist/ workers get fricking paid without having to rip apart their wellbeing to even see the money. i'm going to make it happen. i have to.

[@DoodleBricks]

Absolutely FANTASTIC video man! As an aspiring animator who’s going to university to learn it this September, I’m definitely concerned about the future of the art, but I just KNOW that with people like you at the helm of this movement, we’re gonna make our mark and keep our places in this space. That’s why I’m so excited about indie animation from people such as Glitch Productions. I personally want to get into the indie space now and I’m so excited to see where it goes. The harder we get pushed out, the harder we push back 💪

[@okayso1747]

Canadian animator here: Yeah, working conditions for your favorite shows are paying animators and artists appallingly low prices, even with the tax credits provided. It doesn't help that we also have no unions, and any attempts to unionize have been met with *aggressive* opposition funded and supported by big client studios. (Aka Disney, WB, Univerals, etc.) There's a common expectation that, out of all the young animators that start up in the business over here in Canada land, only a third of them stay in the industry. What's sad is, the lowest paid workers are working on scenes that get immortalized and talked about for years to come, and yet the people that worked on them are just barely able to afford rent. And here's the kick in the mouth: the decisions that make x shows suck are overwhelming cause by Low buget, no time to polish off writing or boards, and corporate appeal to selling the most homogenised content to as many people as quick as possible. If you want to see better content at this rate, purchase individual episodes/series/movies and related merch. Don't waste your money subscribing or letting data analytics gather info on your dumbass parents playing youtube kidslop like coco melon for eight hours to entertain the children they clearly hate.

[@noahbossier1131]

Yeah it’s because of the accessory baby trend that they dump them in front of iPad because they only wanted instagram baby

[@noahbossier1131]

I meant to say they are dumping kids on KZbin slop because they don’t care and never wanted kids they wanted a accessory baby for instagram likes and picture time. And the rest of the time they dump on iPads since they don’t care

[@bluwasabi7635]

lol! KZbin kidslop is such a great term. Question for you: How do you purchase individual episodes?

[@Demopans5990]

Just like with manufacturing, outsourcing is a very short term decision. Chinese manufacturers actually can be pretty high quality, if you are ready to pay. Try to link up with fellow animators and form a studio. It might be a painful few years, but as American talent is hollowed out, that will only leave you guys, if companies do not want to deal with Chinese studios

[@sexywarriorwomen]

@@okayso1747 omg. I’d love to say you are wrong, but I can’t. It’s crazy cocomelon is going to release a feature length film?!!!!!

[@That-One-Frog]

I've always wanted to be a programmer. I also loved AI for the last year. Until this month. I realised how serious this was getting. I have four years until i graduate. AI can easily take over coding till then, as you said. Same with the animation industry. I don't want to watch AI generated stuff. Behind all the movies, there's love and passion. AI can't replicate that. I don't want millions of people losing their jobs that they love. This problem is no joke, and we must take action. Thanks for making this video, I'll share it and do my best for it to reach out to more people. I hope this gets seen by many more.

[@That-One-Frog]

@@solarydays Sorry, I think I wasn't clear enough. I only wanted to be a programmer. I didn't really get deep into coding just yet, I'm still in high school.

[@suddenshotty]

Programming is not going to go away.. Sure, AI can make code, but who's going to tell it what to write? A company that has no idea what their system is run on are going to have problems... It's why firing leading developers usually cause chaos as the higher-ups find out just how much work was actually done. Keep up learning programming. It's a good way to get in the animation/film industry and allows you to switch careers much easier than an artist would have if things go to hell.

[@3DMVR]

Just dont speak if yall know nothing you clearly cant program if you think thats happening soon or if you think product owners will be able to magically code shit, ai will speed shit up and up the workload

[@ljthesage]

Tbh I don't think anybody should be worried about Ai, even digital artists and I'm an artist my self. Of course it would take alot of jobs obviously but artists would adapt. My perspective is if you're already good at drawing or animation or coding it would make your job faster where instead of spending weeks on a project you're just spending a couple days at best tweaking the ideas of the Ai. Think of it like Jarvis and Tony stark Jarvis was Ai but Tony was still solving the problems tho using his help

[@ljthesage]

@@solarydays lol before you get emotional on me like I said it assists cos I'm pretty good at drawing myself but no matter how descriptive I get it sometimes lacks some stuff like positioning or whatever so I have to go in and fix it myself or sometimes just use Ai as a tool to brainstorm and recreate whatever it gives me in my own way. Now I'm not saying it won't take jobs I'm just saying artists can also make use of this tool cos like it or not it's here to stay

[@niwiri8669]

So I am a Student in Animation right now. And i am not really scared when Animation Collapses. The Problem are often Managers with a short Vision. They only see the Money, but for me Animation is a Story in it self. You Craft it with your own hands, to Create something Beautiful, for others. The most Manager just see the Money and efficiency, the Talk about ai, but have no idea how to use it properly. The want to replace knowledge with Ai Halluzination, but i think a better way to use ai is for example for a more efficient Workflow in UV Mapping, or Retopology. For the most Time Consuming parts, of Animation. When Animation Collapses, it could be a Blessing for Animators, then maybe it gives Life to new Studios with better Work Conditions.

[@toffye]

As a kid my biggest dream was working on the cartoons that I loved watching everyday, but every year the conditions of the animation industry kept getting worse. But that never stopped me from wanting to animate, if anything it made me want to do it more, solo publishers and indie studios are definitely the future of animation and I can’t wait to see what we create!

[@JcibA113]

As someone who works in the Canadian animation industry I really appreciate you adding to this conversation in such a meaningful way.

[@kierrag9180]

As someone who is wanting to become an animator... thank you for helping keep aware of these issues. Its a tough world out there, but I always appreciate my seniors for keeping me informated of things I don't even know that I don't know. I wanna stay in the best position possible to keep the magic alive.

[@lasercraft32]

We seriously need laws protecting against the misuse of AI.

[@theanonymspysandwich]

When the corpos say jump, politicians ask how high. Not gonna happen.

[@importon]

"We need laws preventing the use of typewriters so I don't lose my job as a calligrapher" -You in the 1800s

[@lasercraft32]

@@importon Typewriters don't steal other people's work though. That's the difference.

[@terranova8890]

Laying off a bunch of people to start hiring again next year should be fucking illegal, corps are truly despicable.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

They are so despicable indeed.

[@miriades]

Agree

[@makintoshxd]

As someone who is gonna major in animation I hope all the best for the Industry. Its sad the see how artistic and creative jobs have always been abused by corporate minds that only desire to put forth earnings instead of creative innovation.

[@Toastcat890]

indie is the future

[@13sinra13]

Yes it is!

[@JellyOnAPancakeAyyyy]

Hopefully

[@sunla]

AI is not a tool. It's a replacement that uses the work of every scraped artwork. This needs to become illegal. GenAI isn't being used as a tool.

[@Silver77cyn]

Well said.

[@Window4503]

That’s what people don’t get. They think AI is this brand new thing that’s independent of humanity when it’s just a parasite.

@@Window4503 I hope the fad passes over like NFTs.

[@Window4503]

It’s hard to say since it’s touching every industry and field except for purely physical crafts/sciences. What’s in our favor is that 1. The people creating it don’t understand the intricacies of each field/craft and don’t care to learn, they’d rather just rip work than make sure the output is masterful. 2. AI doesn’t understand meaning at all and can’t assign meaning to things to create novel ideas without help. 3. These are still companies. Meaning that should said companies get heavily politicized, people may leave them to regain control of their own voice should any censorship happen (like not being allowed to use certain keywords or getting biased writings about an event).

[@ReiseLukas]

No technology is good or evil, what matters is the people who use it and what they choose to do with it that matters

[@Sketchnificent]

This is a great video. I’m an artist myself I specialize in digital art, animation and just recently I started doing 3D modeling. At first when I saw the rise of A.I. I was kinda mad at it and I felt I had to prove myself worthy, but now I’m not even worried about it anymore. I know my worth this is a good thing this is going to push creatives to push out more original ideas/content and with ai on the rise I will say this to artist our value just shot up tremendously. After a while the general public is going to get tired of seeing ai. Pretty soon these big companies are going to be coming to us for something new and fresh.

[@c.malicious]

I agree. It's going to force a reevaluation of what we define as "art" which can only be a good thing. I have faith in people, and I really don't believe the potential with AI is as infinite as people think. That said, as someone who graduates in November with a Bachelor's in Character Animation, I'm a little worried that companies will move that direction for a few years, drying up the jobs... Hope I won't be paying student debt on what amounts to a hobby... 😂

[@RichardServello]

It’s not just animation. I’ve worked in vfx for 20 years and have barely worked for the past year.

[@NoTheRobot]

EDIT: My reply here feels rude in hindsight and I’m sorry if it came across that way. Leaving it up for context though: My video is specifically focusing on the animation industry, so dismissing it by saying that other areas are also affected, while accurate, doesn’t help us in the animation industry. This is to advocate for the animation artists that get drowned out in the larger conversations regarding the film industry as a whole.

[@mfbias4048]

@@NoTheRobotweird response to someone saying they share your grief,

[@tigerfestivals5137]

​@@NoTheRobotRichard isn't being dismissive, he's just pointing out that it's also happening in the VFX industry. You're assuming a lot.

[@RichardServello]

@@NoTheRobot excuse me. Who’s dismissing? I’m saying we are also struggling and you’re telling me to fuck off. Lost a sub here dumbass.

[@RichardServello]

Oh and I worked on spiderverse last year. So I’m also part of animation, dick.

[@pfchan9052]

Im an international 3D animation student here in Vancouver, Canada. And I graduate in a few months, getting my post graduate work permit as well that only lasts 3 years… I’m super worried about how this will affect me getting a job that will allow me to apply for residency here. And it breaks my heart as well because I have many mentors who are super talented who are also stuck in this situation. I already suffer with my confidence in my own work and seeing so many lay offs and so many people jobless is making me panic and loose sleep trying to grind my animations… it’s gotten to the point where I don’t really enjoy animating as much as I did before. I feel like no matter what I do, I will still get replaced. I don’t find working for these companies alluring neither. I am hoping that by the time I graduate or by the half part of my 1st year on my work permit ,everything will be okay and that I’ll be able to have fun with the grind again. I love this art, I don’t see myself doing anything else….

[@adampockaj3157]

One silver lining a lot of people aren't talking about is the way that generative AI works is very problematic legally, especially on large scale film and television production with massive legal departments. Not only is the art it's trained on stolen (which is a legal grey area already (and legal departments of film and television production companies tend to avoid legal grey areas)), but there's also the way AI art generators work. When you use an AI art generator, it doesn't just use your computer's local resources to do what it does, it sends your prompts to a server the AI company owns where it draws from all the art on the entire internet to create an image, then send it back to you. So if any film/television production uses AI art generators to make, say, backgrounds for a show, then all of those pieces of production art will also just...exist, on the server of a rival tech company. Everyone that works on a show has to sign an NDA saying they won't show or talk about whatever they're working on. These Gen AI companies aren't signing an NDA. If anything, it probably says in their terms and service that they can use any art that's generated using their software however they see fit. That's an IP nightmare for any production. I know some CEO's are licking their lips thinking about how much money they're going to save, but when the lawyers start looking into it, its going to be a lot more problematic than they realize

[@jesterfeathers]

Well said. 💯👌 I made a video addressing this AI legal aspect on my channel, but I hope this topic will pick up among popular channels/creators

[@DarthBiomech]

> When you use an AI art generator, it doesn't just use your computer's local resources to do what it does, it sends your prompts to a server the AI company owns where it draws from all the art on the entire internet to create an image, then send it back to you That's sadly not how AIs work actually. Well, non-cloud-based ones, anyway. The way they work is that you spend computing days and weeks of compressing those terabytes of stolen images into a single multi-GB file, basically one giant equation, that stores probabilistic relations between words and pixel arrangements, and the AI engine uses _that_ to generate its images. The AI itself doesn't plagiarize any art, but it was created using stolen content none the less. But everything can and does run off a single machine w\o internet access. But there's a silver lining: US court deemed that you can't copyright AI-generated content. Meaning that companies might avoid employing AIs since they can't hold content made with in their money-making hostage.

[@CorralSummer]

if u use stable diffusion it can run locally on your own computer.

[@TruthBeToldTP]

The solution is simple... Companies will have their own servers and AI trained to customize their own prompts and outcomes. They are not going to use the same $25 subscription that mortals purchase 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@amethystimagination3332]

That’s what I’ve been thinking about, because once the bill comes due (and it always does eventually) these ai bros are gonna be fucked legally speaking. It doesn’t matter how good their crime algorithm is, the mouse’s copyright lawyers are better and they will sue you into oblivion over way less than what the ai is doing.

[@lemonzalea]

Me an animation major: 💀💀💀💀

[@NoTheRobot]

It’s scary for sure, but keep sharing your own work online - that’s your best defense right now!

[@StuffByDrew]

Real, my Anim professor said they were teaching right now because they’re frustrated with the industry

[@dinorpg]

Me an animation animator: 💀💀💀💀

[@arkanimation9833]

Same! Watched all these job posting shrink and fast over the last couple of months.

[@carlosmiret35]

@@NoTheRobot the fact that someone is telling you this, is by itself a signal of concern (for all of us, of course) already. We keep learning and sharing 🤞💪

[@vincenthoule5643]

AI will get worse at hollywood. When we will see animated movies with AI, I will be out. I refuse to watch animated movies with AI. Sony animation used AI for Spider-man across the spiderverse without affecting animators etc.. Will dreamworks use AI badly it concern me ?

[@Mr.Mirage_YT]

Where they used ai in spiderverse can u tell? in which scenes

[@vincenthoule5643]

@@Mr.Mirage_YT for the angle of camera. AI was used as a tool for the animators.

[@Dappis]

@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue the "ai" (really just an algorhythm trained on data created by the animators themselves) was used to predict where to place sketch lines and such on 3D models, it automates a process the animators themselves wanted automated, one of the few ethical uses of AI in animation

[@Mx.muffin]

​@@DappisWhich is what AI SHOULD be used for.

[@ketchupjonmustard4514]

The corporate greed is unreal. I find it weird that the word "business" is typically paired with "People fired" "at the end of the day all they care about is money" "greed". I agree we are going to see more amazing indie movies.

[@bzl.productions]

Incredibly well captured state of the industry. This was informative, empathetic, and properly alarming. I've been a visual artist and designer my whole life, inspired by productions like Naruto, Samurai Champloo, Treasure Planet, Inside Out, Chowder, Spongebob, Aqua Teen, and Ghost in the Shell. Recent works that have captured my heart are Spider-Verse, Arcane, Rick & Morty, Midnight Gospel, Bravest Warriors, My Hero Academia, AoT, and literally anything Alberto Mielgo creates lol. That said, the range of depth, comedy, storytelling, and provocation that these titles achieved were ALL made by passionate artists. People with a skill and a dream. And like for many others, these stories inspired me to pursue a career in this unpredictable industry, to create and dare to leave my mark with my own art. So hearing how corporations are snuffing out the flame of creative to chase a dollar disheartening but also the very framework which allows for us creatives to dig deeper, to grow wiser, expand, and rise to create something beautiful. So again, thank you for sharing this news so eloquently. Situational awareness at a juncture like this is paramount (no pun intended haha).

[@drawwing]

There was a Hanna Barbara strike in the early 80s and it resulted in Animation going to Korea. Recent history has shown that the studios are gonna do what they can to cut artists out. This is a very scary time to work in Animation. My big fear is most of the Animation industry is now made up of artists that entered the industry post 2008 and they are not aware of the bigger picture that is the highs and lows of our business.

Exactly. I'm not optimistic on the potential strike. EVERY SINGLE strike by the modern guild (as founded in 1953) has been a failure. Heck, even the Disney strike didn't do much... as a little thing called "World War II" caused many of the striking animators to strike against... well... bigger foes.

[@superstitch5618]

Honestly, as a lifelong animation fan who wants to create animated projects someday, this is horrifying. These corporations just don’t care about the artistic integrity of animation and only care about profit. As evident with the massive layoffs, over reliance on popular IP, outsourcing as a to cut costs and using AI to make things easier for them (but would only end up making future projects feel soulless). Ya, these problems NEED to be call out. And I’m also a bit worried about the future of DreamWorks, their my personal favorite animation studio and they’ve been Disney’s longest rivals in the industry, so it would REALLY suck that Comcast could potentially shut them down purely because their studio is not as successful as their own studio Illumination.

The outsourcing thing has been a problem for a long time now... The Simpsons' ink & paint has long been done in Korea.

[@superstitch5618]

Well I mean for big name animated film studios like DreamWorks to no longer fully animate in-house for the sake of cutting costs.

@@superstitch5618 In terms of theatrical releases, fair point. I was more or less thinking of the television/direct-to-video-and-or-streaming industry.

[@superstitch5618]

I know.

[@toddkurosawa1994]

It's no coincidence that there are mass layoffs just before upcoming basic agreement negotiations -- a strategy to weaken union leverage to strike.

[@NoTheRobot]

🎯🎯🎯

[@noahbossier1131]

@@NoTheRobot I think it’s important for people to recognize how animation is important

[@TheEvolver311]

​@@noahbossier1131 People don't think art is important generally it's why arts programs are usually the first to go in schools facing budget cuts

[@JamesJimmaHarding]

Hazbin Hotel put indie animation on the map, Lackadaisy proved that indie developers can indeed bring back DCAU-level great animation

[@RebbyCraft]

17:11 Support indie animation is the solution at the condition that amateur animation is included too People, remember that Top 3 animation countries are the exceptions, not the norm in the international scale

[@jonnyjordan1669]

as an artist myself I must admit I have spent a great deal of time worrying about this. Luckily, these corporations are seeing the loss of interest from viewers from the lack of innovation they have been showing. people do value art created with love by humans. Art is human expression and that's what makes it connect with people. I'm very sad for the artists having their dreams ripped away from them but I'm hopeful that new indie studios will rise up and help take the power away from these greedy companies. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to watch empty content made by AI. Animators need to fight this and keep their hope up. artists will find a way to succeed in doing what they love. People value things made by people even if the ai is good at it. vote with your dollar people!

[@SmollRuby]

i guess when big cooperations won't do anymore then indie is the only way

[@SmollRuby]

@AsylumLunatic-ig5jh what are you talking about

[@SmollRuby]

@AsylumLunatic-ig5jh oh that makes a bit more sense.

[@valasdarkholme6255]

​@AsylumLunatic-ig5jhIndie videogames are generally better than AAA videogames and have been for like a decade. Often they run on patreon crowd funding during development. Low budget yet still better. Perhaps we need an adaptation of that business model for animations.

[@SmollRuby]

@@valasdarkholme6255 YESSSS

[@TheEvolver311]

​@@valasdarkholme6255that will never happen unless you are already a known successful animator.

[@SiliconRiot]

VFX workers and Game workers are facing the same issue. It’s time for the creatives to stand up for themselves.

[@Liberatios]

AI may be instant, but an artist's work is eternal. Forever lasting thorough time.

[@Squigglies]

The history of art is the history of businessmen trying to control and / or get rid of the creative voices who make it. In other words, this is an unprecedented change in our medium, but by no means a final one. Our best bet is to not cave in to reactionary behaviour and fearful stances. Stand united, and please take care of yourselves - so long as we hold on to our craft, our self worth and each other, we will emerge with a better future, both for ourselves and the work that we love so much.

[@MajatekYT]

2019 really was the best year for corporations and the new start of the worst years for workers. Not just the animation industry, but every entertainment industry including videogames and any employee with disabilities (as working from home was something many got to experience for a brief moment only for it to be ripped away from them). 😞

[@ComposerKuandohan]

I would recommend making a short talking about IATSE having protections against AI in writing so it’s easier to share around. Among all of the topics you brought up, I personally feel like that, by far, is the most important to share.

[@NoTheRobot]

Yup I'll be splitting this video up into shorter chunks for Shorts / TikTok / Instagram!

[@alexandercuenin]

Thanks for putting this together. I have been an animation student for some years now, about to wrap up my time at Animation Mentor. I've been seeing all this happen but it's great to see all the pieces put together like this, really helps bring clarity. To all other animators out there, we gotta stick together! We'll get through this storm- and hopefully there will be sunshine on the other side.

[@areakastudios6704]

There’s nothing we can do. If we complain, they call us weirdos and call security. If we don’t say anything, they continue to ignore us. This industry isn’t looking good and I pray that I might one day have a chance to take part in this industry without worrying about my ideas being shut down or ignored.

[@Aerodune]

As an aspiring 3D Artist, I will not let this stop me. I'm commenting so that more people can see this, Don't give up we will break through this.

[@qnebra]

Well, first show of Disney Animation Vancouver, called "Iwaju", was animated by Cinesite. Don't be surprised if their next show "Moana 2" also have significant portions of animation provided by external vendrors, like Cinesite.

[@NoTheRobot]

Not surprised honestly, most animated TV series outsource at least one part of their pipeline. Moana 2 is going to be a really interesting experiment for Disney to see if they can get away with lowering the quality of their animation even further for a theatrical release

[@rittataylor_2000]

If funny how western anime fans have repeatedly called out Japanese animation studios for their toxic work culture and how they're working animators to the death just to end up seeing American studios doing the same or sometimes worse to their own animators I guess capitalism works the same for all countries

[@skidfrog]

I remember being required to attend a meeting where example company bragged that they were hiring 250 people a year. I asked did the size of the company grow in those years but they admitted the company was still exactly the same size . Like the Robot says......those jobs are short term contracts only and not a long term reality . I met one person who was hired away from Illumination and let go just one week later. Those are not jobs.....they're band-aids

[@renlaidao]

He is right, a few weeks ago in Malaysia, There is an animation company I used to work call (I think this company owned an animation company name long time ago I used to work there) suddenly became the first stock-listed animation company in Malaysia, If I not remember wrong one months ago, a Malaysia politician mentioned on the local news that “animation and video game industry in Malaysia is booming”, same time as the Big brand animation and gaming company layoff news came out

And that's a side effect of the outsourcing pointer. I don't think the animation medium is on recession... just the mainstream stuff from LA and the Canadian studios... Overseas/indie animation is booming.

[@gargantuanlilipout427]

Layoff has been a recurring in the entertainment biz long before any of this a.i hoohah. I came from (indie) game environment, saw the early comics/manga portal(s) succumb, before the likes of Tapas or Line's Webtoon became huge in North America (and the rest of the internet), and… had the misfortune to venture into this shythole in Glomac square in Petaling Jaya, Malaysia. cj & andrew are two sly fcks who are exactly part of the problem by normalizing the culture of staying late instead of genuinely coming up with something that may _actually_ help improve THEIR OWN employee retention rate, rather than telling everybody they simply ain't working hard enough. Cj in a closed meeting room saying shyt like "maybe it's part of your upbringing" as if I consented in my contract for him to say whatever garbage he felt like saying about my parents. I always heard the folks in production floor saying stuff about them, but it was only on my last days that I learned their real sick outlook on things. Pretty sure they are now very proud of their "hardwork" getting ipo deal and whatnot after benefitting on top of the broken backs of those artists who had to sleep onsite due to inhumane deadline. You think these two ARE successful? After they gloat about how much they hate their previous job as well before becoming -entrepreneurs- scheming ässhöles themselves. Just look at their Glassdoor rating. Not to mention their salary payment loophole scandals. I think most of people I ran into from my time there had left the animation altogether. I always loved the Malaysian experience with the food and everything else. But not this one.

[@animShenanigans]

This has been happening since 2012 when studios shifted work to Canada, New Zealand and the UK chasing tax subsidies. Offices were already opened in India and China to take advantage of the difference in currency. There are talented animation artists across the globe and COVID demonstrated that we can work together remotely. Independent artist run remote studios could keep the innovations in animation moving forward.

Well, outsourcing has been done for longer than that... Japanese and Korean subsidiaries have been around since the 60s.

[@animShenanigans]

True. 2D and Television has been outsourced for a long time. The big shift for 3D happened in 2012 but the signs were there around 2008 as studios began opening offices overseas. Part of this was the push for stereoscopic films coupled with VFX films going from 200 VFX shots to over 1000 VFX shots per film. It doubled workload in postproduction but client studios want more for less always. The straight bid process also contributes to razor thin profit margins and many studios going under or being consolidated. It is quite a mess

[@kiuche5607]

I cant even start to explain how happy i am at seeing indie studios and animations pop up and not neeeing of bigger corporations, to put an example glitch studios. I've seen how nice the people are in these environments and how are their experiences working and its just makes me hope one day ill be able to be part of it maybe share my stories to the world, that just would be a dream come true honestly.

[@schwartztastick]

All the risk is on creatives and all rewards go to the executives. Artists need to get out of this brutal cycle, but how? Otherwise it's going to continue, like a series of abusive relationships.

[@Azillia]

Crazy while this is happening, indie animation is growing Hazbin hotel, helluva boss, all of glitch productions (Digital circius, murder drones, ect.) And any others that idk about

[@sugy747]

Student loan to repay, self-business that flopped, no job, living in a small apartment with my mother... What a time to be alive!

[@BlackPanther-n4j]

From which country

[@sugy747]

​@@BlackPanther-n4j France, and its 30% VAT

[@Zeoytaccount]

I got started in concept art right after the pandemic - immediately jumped ship and went 180 into business by 2023. I draw more personal work now than I ever did back then. I’d highly urge all artists to go indie.

[@ariadnaltos]

The third point, outsourcing, is a hard thing for me to analyze. From the perspective of someone living in the US I understand that it is pretty bad. But in my case I'm from Spain, and Spain has started with the tax game in the animation industry. That means that more studios outside of Spain are opening headquarters and more Spanish studios are receiving more work (as they work in service instead of their own productions). I understand that from the perspective of someone in the States this sucks. And of course in Spain the payment is not as high as the one for animators in the US. But the thing is... The culture of the US has been spread around the globe. It's really influential and when people outside of the industry in Spain think about animation they think specifically about USA animation (Disney, Pixar, DreamWorks...). Sooner or later outsourcing was going to happen because other people in other countries want to work in animation too, and USA studios and companies are the biggest investors in this industry. But please understand, we want to make our own projects, not just to work for US projects, and we've been working on our own projects for years. Maybe the outsourcing game will change if people start actually supporting and watching more stuff than the one made in the US. But if the USA continues conolizing the animation market of every other country, the big productions will need workers from other countries as well. For example, in Spain we have Skydance Animation. They're in LA as well, but it is in Spain where most of the 3D artists and animators are working. I don't defend outsourcing and I'd rather see more original productions in my country and in other places. But the nature of the USA animation industry makes it harder.

[@Luizanimado]

I work with animation for a few year now, I'm actually quite positive about the industry, I was talking to a friend of mine the other about that, me and him was expressing about how reasonably easy is to find work today. So I'm not very worried about animators finding work, even with layoffs, they will probably be fine as long they share their work pretty well, I think maybe studios will change a lot, I don't see a future where studios have regular workers, I think in the end animators will work only as Freelance, and that comes with thei advantages and disadvantages. One advice I would give for animators, make a name for yourself, your work is more important than working for a studio, and learn how to negotiate.

[@JohnSmith-wg3pl]

Where are you?

[@Luizanimado]

@@JohnSmith-wg3pl Where Am I living? I live in Brazil

[@minixlemonade]

@@LuizanimadoAhhh there it is. Lol dude getting a job in the US is really hard rn. I’m jealous

[@Luizanimado]

Yeah, but here's the thing, you don't need to work on US, there is a lot of studios hiring to work remotely, that's why I'm saying working as freelance can be better, I'm not a good example since I kinda have my own clients, but my friend for example, he works on many different studios, sometimes at the same time, from US, canada, Dubai, you know, different places. We have to get out of our bubble sometimes.

[@carlamoss89]

@@Luizanimado yes but a lot of international studios don't pay what is considered a living wage for other countries where cost of living is higher. people aren't just making this up out of nowhere, it's a reality.

[@Alzor_AM]

Commenting to feed the algorithm, great video. As an animation student it brings me great despair watching the state of the industry right now, I myself have decided to die on this hill regardless fo the future, its what Ive been doing since I was little, animating in Pivot. Hope that if a strike forms it brings with it the necessary reforms to overcome this mountain, still have hope for indie studios.

[@NicoleHam]

More videos like this! We need more youtubers to talk about this, spread awareness, and hopefully get the public to save our industry and be with us on the path onwards!

[@LouisTLW]

I was hoping to learn animation to get my entire family out of this money problem, but animation is also my passion. With AI on the brink to domination, I don’t know what to do at this point.

[@nikibogwater6598]

Commenting for the algorithm! I'm not an animator myself, but the art has had a huge impact on me as a storyteller and casual artist. I genuinely don't know who I would be without all the beautiful animated films that have been shaping me for as long as I can remember. Movies like Beauty and the Beast, The Prince of Egypt, How to Train Your Dragon, and shows like Fullmetal Alchemist and Avatar: The Last Airbender aren't just fun entertainment to me, they've helped me see new perspectives, learn valuable lessons, and further my own creative pursuits. I don't ever want to live in a world where this kind of art is shipped off to be sucked dry by AI and corporate overlords.

[@thecrispyacorn]

The future of good animation is in KZbin creators and a select few studios like A24

[@KrunchWorld]

Amazing digital circus, helluva boss, hazbin hotel, ramshackle

[@noahbossier1131]

@@KrunchWorldI agree

[@KrunchWorld]

@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue dam, that's some hot takes you got there my friend

[@KrunchWorld]

@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue I get where you're coming from. I really do like amazing digital circus though. It just clicks with me somehow.

[@theseanwardshow]

My view is that protections against AI are only going to harm the workers in the long run. I see a tipping point where AI technology gets good enough to create content for the masses at the same time as Hollywood is totally debilitated by another strike. Technology companies who are not beholden to the Hollywood unions fill the void with content made by small teams using AI, and the strike drags on so long that by the time it's over, it's just too damn expensive to make it the old way in light of what the small teams are able to produce. The old Hollywood system will crash. The corporations will lose a lot of money, probably get acquired by the tech companies, and otherwise continue on. And all of the creatives in Hollywood that insisted on protectuons against AI instead of running with it will be left holding the bag.

[@NoTheRobot]

When we say “protections against AI,” what we specifically mean is protections against the HUMANS that will use AI as an excuse to displace their workers. I’m all for artists adopting AI / Machine Learning models into their workflows and taking advantage of emerging technology, and I agree with you that Hollywood is reaching a tipping point. But the same protections that the writers earned against greedy studio executives are merited here as well. We should be ENCOURAGING artists to try using AI tools (ethically) at these studios, not threatening to lay them off without fully understanding what the tools actually do.

[@Chepicoro]

Artists will be the first to go but eventually everyone will get replaced it is inevitable. I worked at a factory controlling the inventory, I knew I could automate most of my work so I moved to work on construction... Eventually blue collar workers will be replaced. If North America refuses to use AI others like China Will use it. Be optimistic we could live in a post-scarcity world.

[@pinkbloodanimation]

It's like Godzilla and King Kong decided to team up and wreak havoc on our beloved cartoon cities. But hey, at least we'll get some epic animated disaster scenes out of it!

[@jamesharding322]

Anime and classic animation from the 1987-2006 golden age of cartoons are the way to go now! Only time will tell how things pan out for Indie animation

[@alexmazvi]

Indies are the powerhouse with the potential of replacing every AAA studio, either on games or animation. Big companies have lots of unnecesary expenses and taxes that end up affecting the creators, and are also used to focus more on gain than on the art, lots of the time deviating from the original script (often when making movies or games about comics, books, etc), sometimes blowing up the project in their faces (because it ends up sucking really bad).

[@aaronbono4688]

AI is not going to replace performers, it's not even going to really make much of a dent in the programming industry. I know this because I've been using it to do software development and it creates a lot of garbage. In fact studies are finding that groups that use AI assistance to help write code are seeing a degradation in code quality. Companies will not be able to swallow that bitter pill when hackers say hey I can exploit that garbage code.

[@darksidegryphon5393]

Hey, I can exploit that garbage code! :3

[@aaronbono4688]

@thatvexiol yeah whatever, one new technology after the other in the past has made people say things like this and it does mean you have to work hard to stay up to speed but people remain relevant. Already the bubble hype of AI is starting to tarnish and people are realizing that it sucks in many ways.

[@flowerbloom5782]

@@aaronbono4688could you elaborate on how it sucks?

[@aaronbono4688]

@@flowerbloom5782 with images you have people with six fingers or things that are completely out of proportion and don't make sense, with video you have someone walking with their legs going through each other... All you have to do is Google search "why ai sucks" and you will see tons of articles about it. The real problem is how people are going to be complacent/lazy and use what AI spews out without going and doing their research to see what's right and what's wrong, something that's already a problem with our media.

[@aceandson]

Good video! Great points! I'd just like to point out that the "animation industry" -which is a very real thing -is just a part of "animation production" in general. Folks who like animation as an art form might look beyond these studio products with a long history of exploiting the artists who make the work you love. There's a vibrant array of films being produced by artists here on KZbin and for festivals throughout the world. Supporting your local film festival is just as important, if not more, than your Disney+ subscription for ensuring artists can continue to add to the archive of interesting work. These independent artists and studios have been hit even harder by the current corporate slowdown. Commercial work has dried up (not just for animators), TV series which often serve as 9-5 jobs for individuals and collectives are at a standstill, and independent film production on the whole is very slow -likely due to macro trends like interest rates. Be kind to artists, be ruthless to corporations.

[@sodapaula]

As an animation major, I’m now questioning my career path 💀

[@biblesforbreakfast]

I think we need new virtual studios. Less focus on capital and more focused on just giving artists a place to work and create. With many work from home jobs so cost of living and working hours can be more realistic. Nobody can afford to move to LA and pay $3,000 a month for themselves to live in a shoebox while only getting contracts for working 2 months of the year. Stabillity and flexibility is what we need as animators and artists. Also with work-from home jobs we are more open to having a family and can arrange our living situations around spouses also finding work. Current grunt non-sense only works if you are feasible being a bachlor or bachlorette for good. Like most Gen-Zs I think a lot of us would like our lives to be something more meaningful than I went to work, I went home, I slept two hours, I ate a PP&J, I went back to work.

[@giuliabonadraws]

Thank you for this video. I'm a junior storyboard artist from Europe, and I am so scared. I do believe that the industry will survive, and as you said I do believe that many more indie studios will emerge and keep the craft safe! What scares me though is that for people who are moving now their first steps in the industry like me, it feels impossible to get in... and that, I fear, it's only going to get worse. Small studios don't need juniors, if they can have mid and seniors for the same price! Right? So I find myself completely frozen in front of my tablet, wondering if i should change career... to do what, I don't know. One thing I'd like to say though: the international animation community is amazing! Stay strong and beautiful, friends!