The Arm Harness

In the next video we tackle the arm harness and protection for the upper limbs. We examine the progression of various types of arm, elbow and shoulder protection and then take a look at how to wear a late 14th century English example.
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Armorer Jeff Wasson
www.wassonartistry.com
#medievalarmor #livinghistory #knyghterrant

[@PieterBreda]

Don't get your wife angry or you will sleep in your armour.

[@robaba89]

Armor and khaki shorts haha. Gotta love the future.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

That's very interesting that the Englishes' penchant for fighting on foot actually contributed to their armor being heavier and more enclosing, I'd have thought that a mounted man would have more leeway in regards to armor weight. Though I definitely could see the wisdom of having a longer fauld that reached to your groin when you were mostly messing around on foot with polearms against similarly armed opponents.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+John Huang It's not so much that they wanted the added weight as they wanted the added protection. Fighting on foot can make one more vulnerable, so more protection suited their tactical style. The byproduct of that is a little bit more weight. One thing Toby Capwell suggests is that he believes the English even used a different type of articulation on their sabatons (floating leathers like on my shoulders or fauld) because they still allow good movement after they're caked in mud and gunk.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

Knyght Errant​ Of course, I understood that no one wanted additional weight on their armor just because (LOL), its just that I expected a man-at-arms fighting on foot would prefer the tradeoff of more stamina and mobility for less protection, since he must rely on his own two legs rather than his mounts' four for locomotion. The Knights of St John in the 15th and 16th century seemed to opt for lighter, less complete suits of plate armour, and they were mostly fighting on foot too, defending or attacking ships and forts, although that might be due to other considerations (hot Mediterranian climate, the need for balance on a rolling ship's deck, Islamic opponents being even more lightly armoured, etc). I did read Toby Capwell's piece on the special features of early 15th century English plate armor, its indeed quite fascinating. Thanks!

[@veritasetcaritas]

I still revisit these videos repeatedly, they're just so informative.

[@gerryedwards1174]

'Armour is a trade off between protection and mobility' is even true in the modern usage, applying to tanks and AFV's. Excellent vids. Another sub thanks to Matt Easton here :-)

[@lughfiregod16]

+Gerry Edwards It just sacrifices much less mobility then people seem to think it does.

[@landsknecht8654]

Not really man, full suit of armor can move around very, very, very well.

[@MrAwawe]

@@landsknecht8654 it's still a trade off. Armour offers neither 100% protection nor 100% mobility. Increasing the amount of protection with invariably decrease the amount of mobility (unless you optimise it in some what that's inherently better, such as the change from the coif and skull cap to the bascinet and aventail where the excess mail under/over the plate is removed). All armour will limit your mobility in some way, and will have limited protection, it's in finding the balance of the two that you make a good armour.

[@HessianLikeTheFabric]

@@landsknecht8654 Mobility is not just flexibilty. There will be no creature on earth that moves as fast in armour as they do out of it.

[@landsknecht8654]

@@MrAwawe I mean that might be true for non-european armors and stuff as well as armor that's not chain Mill or more properly put mail armor. But when it comes to European plate armor they have found ways to cover up more of the body without sacrificing Mobility with overlapping plates. As what The Hessian said medieval plate armor is actually more flexible than the human body is, at the very least in many cases. Mail armor offers really good Protection cover any any gaps or every gap of the body and still offer same level flexibility which is excellent. Asfour medieval plate armor for European plate is the best form of metal armor to ever exist arguably speaking.

[@Blarghest]

Yer videos are awesome. Helped my brain alot on the whole subject. Shared your work with the rest of my stronghold. Keep bein stellar.

[@Tarburz]

I absolutely love all of your videos thank you

[@BigZ7337]

Your videos are great, so informative while avoiding being boring. :)

[@mattbrown5511]

Thank you for detailed information on arm protection. Informative at the least and entertaining for most viewers.

[@brandy1999]

Nice video, very informative and well made!

[@aimeefritz9186]

Fantastic content! I'm an artist and your channel is great for learning about armor! Form almost always follows function. Very cool

[@philippe2845]

Great video you’re definitely inspiring and knowledgeable. ⚔️

[@naus6081]

Love your videos man I've learned so much, thank you :)

[@declanmcgavin1414]

Ian you're awesome and these videos are amazing and really interesting I appreciate how much effort you put into them

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Declan Lloyd-Jones Thank you!

[@LARPBeard]

Thankyou! these videos are great :)

[@daaaah_whoosh]

I love how I recently made some kydex vambraces for HEMA and ended up with a shape not dissimilar to the historical one. Side note: I found that the end of the vambrace flares out again not as much to follow the shape of the arm, but instead to allow the hand to rotate (see how the two forearm bones twist around when you do it).

[@LordVltor]

Hello, Knyght. Will you ever be able to make a comparative video about the evolution of English, German and Italian plate armours?

[@luxordeathbed]

Thank you for making these vids

[@thomaskaplan4898]

Great video

[@gabrielthomsen3703]

Great video.

[@DaUsher]

Darn my OCD. The only thing I could think about at 16:55 onwards was why the right sleeve of the doublet didn't come out past the vambrace like the left sleeve did XD

[@rhaivaen]

Sweet to see your "assistant"being so proficient in dressing you into your armour. It means she is very understanding of your "hobby" (whatever you want to call it), would be cool to find out she even has her own armour too :))))

[@ulysses7157]

I love both the arm and leg harnesses, I think they are the most athstectically pleasing armor of the midievl period. Especially with a combination of black colored (useing cloth not leather) bringadin. You can make a main character of a story with that combination of arms.

[@ValendianCrafts]

Quite an handsome knight! Good work. ;)

[@johncannon3593]

You touch on shoulder protection a little here, but can you make a video specifically on shoulders? For instance, the when and where of the development of spalders vs. pauldrons (and address gardbraces).

[@derwolf4611]

My thoughts to what you say about leather armour: I think, the picture you show there is one of an rich nobel man who had the money to afford that kind of leather work (lions head) in his armor, but more for ceremonial and showoff purposes then for combat ones. Because, clear thing is, steel is harder and better, my thoughts lead in this direction. Also cause its shown on an ceremonial piece of artwork (grave plate) Great videos, i love to watch them to understand how armor works in some points to craft my own. Best regards, Wolf

[@PackWolfypack]

Could you do a video on the fashion of different armor styles, fashion mean what was in the Vogue, in different eras of the middle ages?

[@alexrechkin7]

Can i ask please, those pictures? Can you share it trough dropbox or google drive? Also really really great job with the videos, awesome work, man!

[@tapioperala3010]

That armor of yours sure comes in handy when you're out "for a little too long with the boys". ;)

[@guestimator121]

Tapio perälä It might help, but not save his ass

[@neilwilson5785]

What is the process that leads to you speaking so fluently about armour? I am deeply impressed by your style, and wish to gain knowledge.

[@douglasfulmer5483]

Please make a video about Gothic armor. As I understand, that is the ultimate evolution of Plate Armor.

[@EconaelGaming]

Could there be faulds going from the breastplate towards the shoulder? (The last fauld could be tied to the shoulder plate?)

[@migzahoy]

where to you buy your harness? it looks realy pro level

[@nixland]

Awesome! Thanks. I am making armor costume for photoshoot but I feel the need to make it more realistic than the fantasy armor :) Is there any plate to protect the neck in history? Thx

[@JamesBrown-qb5ih]

where do you get these pieces of armour? every place I look seems a bit off :) love the videos

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Jamie Brown Thank you. Most of my armor was made by Jeff Wasson (www.wassonartistry.com).

[@nicholasricardo8443]

Where can I find more depictions of the Italian style of just mail protection for the shoulders?

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

2:16 those two mounted knights at the front of the picture. Are those spiky things on their shins meant to be Schynbalds? If so they are pretty cool. If I saw armour like that irl, without seeing this image first, I'd have assumed they were a fantasy design.

[@JafuetTheSame]

maybe you should mention that latter style harnesses have enlargened shoulder plate which overlaps to the breastplate so the armpit is better covered

[@thrawn235]

I would like to know, what you think about the (presumably) later development of larger pauldrons, that close the gap in the armpit and overlap the breastplate a bit. Especially the ones that consist of multiple lames and are therefore articulated. Is there a downside to that construction? Does it constrict mobility to much, or is it just the the better solution ? Also, Ive seen english (and to a lesser extend german armor) that had the gaps in the Arms completely closed by lames. I would like to hear you thoughts about that as well. I wonder how that even works ?!? I really appreciate the time you put into these videos. They are awesome. Keep up the great work.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Sebastian G Larger pauldrons, even with articulated lames can restrict mobility a little more than something small like a smaller spaulder. Even in the later 15th century we still see both styles of shoulder defense present, so I wouldn't say one is empirically better than the other. It always comes down to that trade-off between mobility and protection. Regional differences and tactical differences probably dictate which style would be worn to best exploit it's strengths. My familiarity with lames that completely close the gaps in places like the elbow and behind the knee etc, are in the form of compression lames which are a 16th century thing like we see on the Greenwich armors and other contemporary armors, but that's space age tech to someone from my time period of interest (look at the inside of the elbow on this armor attributed to Henry VIII upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Henry_VIII's_expensive_armour.jpg)

[@todderiksen5975]

Will your armour stop light sabers? In all seriousness, fantastic, Venerable Knyght Errant.

[@CaptainShiny5000]

Hello! Lovely video! I have a question, though. I wonder if the straps on the upper arm limit your ability to flex your biceps in any way. For example - I use an elastic strap on my upper arm for my MP3 player near the point where the upper strap from your armor is located. If it wasn't elastic it would squeeze my biceps quite a bit if I tried to flex it during a workout. It kinda looks as if this could happen with the armor as well.

[@KnyghtErrant]

Thank you! The strap doesn't need to be that tight. The bulk of the load is held by the point at the shoulder, so the strap over the bicep doesn't need to be super tight since it's not really keeping the arm up but more just preventing it from shifting around. I've run and worked out with those mp3 holders, and that strap is a lot more snug than how I set the strap on the armor.

[@PieterBreda]

Nice work. Did they wear the following: aketon/mail/plate? You mention a doublet. Is that something like a gambuson/aketon?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Pieter Batenburg Medieval terminology is very imprecise. I'm just referring to my arming layer as a doublet because it's the most generic term for the garment, but it is in essence an 'aketon.' It's lightly padded and quilted, and can be used for the pointing of armor I'm not wearing a civil doublet under there :) . You can see more detail of its construction and function in these videos: (kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6DXf5-PnL1nm6M and kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4Knfqd8nqmUe6M)

[@KanaiIle]

You could also have mentioned jack chains :)

[@MrJscarfo99]

what about wooden templar shoulders? ithought they were actualy used?

[@MrFullmetaljacket]

Hey, I've been seeing some things about ' Hardened Wax Skin Leather' being used for things such as the arms, legs and other places (think it was on Piotr Feret's website for one...). Is this in any form historically accurate? Whenever I try to look for it using standard internet methods, I always end up on weird Fantasy-themed stuff, which looks cool, but is ofcourse not historically accurate. Have you ever found something more substantial on that subject? Anyhow, great videos! Really enjoy watching all of this and your content has been of immense help to me when designing armor and the likes of it (I'm a studying 2D/3D Visual Arts for video games). Keep up the great work!

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes, there are several pieces of extant hardened leather armor from the medieval era. In addition to the archaeological evidence there is also a lot of documentary evidence for leather armor components listed in medieval inventories (often associated with the tournament, but not always). Most surviving leather armor looks nothing like the modern incarnations of fantasy leather armor though. Exactly how the real stuff was hardened isn't known precisely. Here is a highly tooled hardened leather rerebrace in the collection of the British Museum (www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details/collection_image_gallery.aspx?partid=1&assetid=283920001&objectid=47551).

[@MrFullmetaljacket]

Thank you very much! Rather quite interesting. Again, thanks you (especially for the quick reply). Looking forward to more content!

[@dockmasterted]

yes that is it right on the nose my friend.......it just got confusing.......thanks again for the quick response (amazing response for sure)

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Lar Mayotte thanks for letting me know, I'm fixing the other playlist right now

[@theghostly7]

was all of your harness made by the same armorer? Did you have it made at the same time or as an ongoing process? Also, your mail shirt, was that specifically made to fit you or is it something available online? I would like to start putting something together that is half way decent, but having something specifically made for me is not an option at the moment. thanks.

[@Sadeyr]

I have a question not specifically related to an arm harness, but I feel like this is the closest video to it for such a question! I've heard people talking about the 'swordbreaker' on pauldrons, the half-disc looking extension to the top of the pauldron. I am guessing that the name is just a name and this wasn't made to break swords- I AM wondering what it was used for, though. M best guess is extra shoulder protection as well as neck protection to keep a blade from just swinging across, an extra obstacle?

[@KnyghtErrant]

It's called a 'haute guard' or 'haute piece' and real ones typically sit forward on the pauldron. A lot of movies put them way out at the 3 or 9 o'clock position and make them way too big. Real ones may cover out that far too, but they almost always sweep forward toward the front of the pauldron. They protect your throat and face from attacks and are particularly useful from protecting against polearms when you're mounted on a horse, or even in foot combat as you twist your body to hold a weapon in a guard, the haute piece positions itself in front of your throat. Here's a photo I took at an event that shows this happening; scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17157726_1396325443776169_3830353053098890442_o.jpg?oh=dbdc43a1875ce6ad92c2765e8fcae712&oe=59921F3C

[@Sadeyr]

Oooh, awesome! Thanks for the answer, I'll be adding this to my collection of notes, I've wondered exactly what that part of the pauldron was used for, for a while now. It makes a lot more sense when not so far off like you see in games/movies. Thanks. ^^

[@longpinkytoes]

@3:38 upper canyon? would love to have subtitles for your videos :)

[@KnyghtErrant]

Upper cannon. Another term for the upper arm harness is rerebrace. My newer videos have subtitles since I wrote scripts for them, but for the older videos like this there's just no way I can go back and transcribe dozens of hours worth of taking.

[@longpinkytoes]

@@KnyghtErrant i have found youtube videos that clicking the 3 dots says open transcript, and within transcript there was a button for viewers to add/correct subtitles :p

[@johnbrewington2539]

This is a great logical show of why butted mail would be stupid. When you were rotating your shoulder it would generate plenty of torque against the mail to rip it apart if not riveted, like a fat guy in a little coat.

[@feldwebel999]

Ian, so you said you tie the points for the upper arms directly onto the mail hauberk. Would it be possible to use and arming jacket with points and run them through the hauberk as well?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+feldwebel999 Yes it's possible and will work just as well provided the arming jacket is properly fit. I've experimented with both methods and found weaving the points through the mail shirt to be more trouble than its worth when it's just as stable on a well-fitting mail shirt. There are many styles of 14th century armors where the mail shirt sleeves drape over the top edge of the arm harness, so it's probably pointed to the jacket under there.

[@feldwebel999]

+Knyght Errant Thanks, Ian for the fast response! I've been following your posts with great interests. I just received a set of arm and leg harness yesterday from ArmStreet (made in the Ukraine). The fit isn't bad considering it was made from emailed measurements and not fitted in-person - like I see your harness has been. I just wish I lived closer to an armorer. Anyway, I will definitely be getting some type of arming jacket or a waist area support like the one in your other video. Without it the greaves bear the full weight of the rest of the leg harness and sits right on top of the feet. Merry Christmas! Dean

[@KnyghtErrant]

feldwebel999 You're welcome. Yeah, when you get setup with a good method to suspend your legs they should become a lot more comfortable. Merry Christmas!

[@feldwebel999]

+Knyght Errant Again, Thanks so much for the encouraging words and also all the valuable experience you're sharing to the rest of us!

[@Navak_]

adorable squire

[@CamManTheWise]

Off topic, but what is a gardbrace and how does it fit into the evolution of shoulder armor?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Hi! The gardbrace is an additional reinforcement plate that can be worn over (usually pinned to) the front wing of a pauldron to provide an additional layer of protection against a lance. By the 1420s or so, you see big rondel reinforcement plates on pauldrons and then into the 1430s it's more common to see those replaced with a true gardbrace on Italian armors. You can see one a lot better here in this video I did on the Avant armour - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXinimOHpK5goM0

[@sergiodemartinez1415]

Ian, With respect to the rondels & besagews how exactly are they attached to the gap of the shoulder area? Rivets or leather ties? Also would it make any historical sense to wear besagews on a late 14thcentury gambeson/arming jacket along with a cuirass of the same period? I am going for a crossbow man look. thank you.

[@KnyghtErrant]

Besagews are actually the next video, so that's timely :) Mine are simply laced to my mail via a riveted leather tab on the back. That's the simplest way to do it, but sometimes we see them hanging directly off the spaulder or pauldron, and sometimes they are integrated directly into the shoulder armor. In artwork of the late 14th century you often see crossbows in the hands of essentially fully armed men-at-arms whose armor differ little from the other men in full harness, or you see them in very little armor at all. Either way, besagews were just barely coming back into use at that point in time even with the knightly class, so it may be a little strange to use the configuration you're describing.

[@sergiodemartinez1415]

Much appreciated! Looking forward to the next video. Rock on!

[@bobsbigboy_]

where do you get your armor??

[@longpinkytoes]

@6:32 searching 'besicues' only got a quote from shakespeare, and a myarmory article thinking they had spelled it wrong. word please?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Besagew. kzbin.info/www/bejne/inqohZ6qq9yLfKc

[@longpinkytoes]

@@KnyghtErrant thanks! i even tried that spelling, google has Failed The City xD

[@neutralfellow9736]

About 1:47; there are depictions of them used in battle though; 2.bp.blogspot.com/-kT4CQdHt6Qo/UirlTdExFeI/AAAAAAAAEDM/AjztVnJ-jug/s1600/Crusade.jpg I assume that the surcoat would be more than enough for the purpose of showing heraldry, it seems to me that it indeed had a protective purpose just like the "sode" of the samurai armor.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Neutral Fellow No one is suggesting they weren't used in battle. They are most certainly depicted as being worn in battle. Most current scholarship's analysis of the evidence, specifically from inventories suggest they were of no defensive value since most were listed as being made of things like parchment and other defensively benign materials.

[@neutralfellow9736]

+Knyght Errant Oh, that surprises me. I thought that they were a result of the danger posed from downward strikes to the shoulders and were some kind of proto-pauldrons. Their position and shape surely implies that. But if they were listed as made from anything else than metal, I guess they would indeed be nearly useless for protection. The only thing that comes to mind is that they were some kind of additional padding to absorb impact or an attempt to deflect downward blows from the shoulder to the side. Well, thank you for your answer and for educating me, I sincerely thought they were plates of metal until now.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Neutral Fellow I actually just found that out myself as I was doing the research for this video. Blair, in European Armor states that they were "invariably made of flimsy material quite unsuited to any defensive purpose," which I found surprising and then I started to dig a little deeper. Unfortunately none survive (that have been found) and there are no contemporary descriptions of their express purpose. If they were exclusively made from flimsy things like parchment, or thin bits of leather as Blair and a few inventories suggest, then any defensive purpose would have been purely incidental. If there were some made of more robust materials then they very well could have been used for defense first, and display second. The sources most people are aware of associate them with the former. The real point of all this though is that the jury is still very much out on the purpose of ailettes, so I'm in no position to say that they were definitively used for defense or just heraldic display. You'll see people who are very passionate about both positions, whereas everyone can agree a shoulder cop or spaulder was obviously primarily intended for defense. I didn't want to leave ailettes out of the video altogether because they're all over artwork, but it was important to be clear that they are a subject of debate unlike the other armor I've covered.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

Knyght Errant You didnt have any besagews on your arm harness, didnt they appear already by the mid 14th century? Thanks

[@KnyghtErrant]

+John Huang You see besagews pop up briefly around 1340 as English effigies show the transition from rondels to a more standardized spaulder style. Then they go away and don't come back on effigies until about 1410 on the most modern harnesses for that time.

[@ChrissieBear]

How do you spell the name of those small rectangles used for heraldry?

[@IHaTeCookie05]

IoKnight ailette

[@LavaDrink]

@knight Errant , is your arm harness directly attacked to the mail?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes, the shoulder points to the underlying mail.

[@grantlandsmith]

It occurs to me that if the pauldron was extended inward, flaring out-and-up over the breastplate, a better solution to the mail exposure might be afforded.

[@fukyomammason]

I know that stealth and plate armor don't exactly go well together, but do we know if any attempt was ever made to decrease the amount of clatter made when moving? For instance: by lining the offending edges with cloth or leather padding.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+CallMeCactusSok All the examples I can think of that involve lining or padding armor was purely for defensive reasons / comfort, any sound dampening would have been purely a side-effect. I'm just not sure there's any good reason to worry about the noise armor makes, the sound of a fight is far louder :)

[@egm01egm]

+Knyght Errant An ambush, reconnaissance?

[@fukyomammason]

Grimdark I imagine you'd leave your plate armor behind if you were going on recon. As for an ambush, that was more or less what I had in mind when I asked the question. That, and I'm trying to create at least quasi-realistic armor for a roguish character I'm writing, and I wanted to know if there was any precedent.

[@egm01egm]

As I know russ lammelar armour plates sometimes has glued pieces of skin on inside side to reduce noise.

[@fukyomammason]

Grimdark Interesting...so there is some historical precedent for the practice. Good to know.

[@Zemar16]

How much does such a Plate armor cost?

[@OrmTostesson]

Quick question: Would slicing the string on your shoulder hinder your arm movement a lot (let's say you're not wearing a helm with an aventail)? It seems like a big enough target to justify trying to slice it.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+OrmTostesson It wouldn't disable your arm, it might let the shoulder cop bounce around a bit. There are much better suggested targets when fighting a man in armor that I wouldn't think it was too much of a concern. I'd be interested in trying to have someone attempt to cut my points while I'm actively fighting back and defending myself to see, but I really think it would be difficult to even do that the effect isn't worth the effort.

[@OrmTostesson]

Thanks for the answer! Maybe you could do that in a future episode, a mock fight with explanations of weak points, strong points, feasible/practical targets etc.

One thing I never got for the arm is where and how they are fixed on the armour. Yes, there is a lace that we can see, but from where that lace cames from? I have seen some versions with straps to secure the shoulder plate, and then again, I have no clue of how they work in relation with the armour - where and how they link to the armour. Can someone please clarify that for me?

[@KnyghtErrant]

The lace in my case is attached to my mail shirt. In other styles of harness the lace can be attached directly to the underlying arming cote.

Intresting. The lacing is attached to the mail rings directly, or there is some kind of... leather or metal riveting to receive the lacing? (sorry for the poor english. As you can guess, this is not my primary language)

[@KnyghtErrant]

There is a leather tab on the shoulder plates, but on the other side the point passes directly through the mail rings. On harness where mail is not present there, eyelets would be sewn directly into the arming doublet to receive the points (laces).

Many, many thanks, mr LaSpina!

[@johndumbeltion1693]

Does you arm move up and down between the humerus and shoulder ? Why have flexibility at that point ?

[@KnyghtErrant]

If the arms are configured with a short rerebrace like in this video (before they were rebuilt) as you abduct your arm, since the top of the spaulder is point tied to a fixed point, if the armor can't collapse there it will restrict abduction unnecessarily. They've since been changed, this is what they look like now kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXrLgKyglJytqLM

[@scarecrow2097]

Do you think a gothic gauntlet or any gauntlet that has the vambrace connected to it maybe could give more protection than a simple gauntlet that covers only the hand? Or there is no difference?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+the scarecrow A gothic gauntlet has an extended cuff, but it still fits over a proper vambrace. The advantage to a gothic style extended cuff is that you have more coverage and less of a chance of a weapon to sneak in under the cuff. The more challenging aspect is that it requires articulation in the cuff. Gothic gauntlets have articulations that allow wrist flexion, extension and ulnar and radial deviation, whereas an hourglass gauntlet cuff is generally static.

[@scarecrow2097]

+Knyght Errant its kinda anachronistic but i was planning to buy a set of chainmail armor and articulated gauntlets.The mail is a quality one but the only Gothic style gauntlet I came across is a deepeeka one which is sells as battle-ready but in reality is not. Yet gauntlets take a lot of money when it comes to custom made. Should I take the cheap ones or there are armourers there who could make articulate gauntlets for 250-800(max) ?

[@j_d_gamer2091]

While putting on his armor he looks like Pixelated Apollo in his first couple episodes of Kingdom Come.

[@062241kdp]

What gauge Steel was used in historic armor? What gauge is yours and Who is the manufacturer. Thanks

[@KnyghtErrant]

Thickness on historical armor varied quite a bit, even within the same piece. For example, an Italian cavalry breastplate could be over 3.5mm thick in the center, and drawn out to less than 1mm by the edges around the armholes, whereas a munition infantry breastplate might only be 1.5mm thick. Helmets vary quite a bit as well, often being thickest above the brow. Visors could be extremely thick if intended for jousting, but relatively thin otherwise. Limb armor is usually thinner that breastplates and helmets etc.. Modernly it's harder to achieve proper differential thickness because we start with uniformly thick rolled sheets of steel, but even so the gauge of the starting material depends on the specific part. A helmet or breastplate might start around 16 gauge, and be raised thicker in places or dished thinner in others. Things like sabatons might be as light as 22 gauge..

[@062241kdp]

Knyght Errant thank you. Can you say who made your armor?

[@SnakeWasRight]

If you could make a plate helmet in the age of maille, what's to stop you from strapping one of those plates to your shoulder or forearm? Was this unthinkable or unfeasible at the time or was it simply not used as a standard? Did people simply not see the need for it yet? Or was it too expensive? What could have been the limiting factor?

[@KnyghtErrant]

The ability to create large numbers of suitable plates of iron or steel was limited, and the priority for armor in almost all periods of time goes to the head first. It seems as technology improved and more plates could be had, the natural progression of reinforcing the trunk happened next, followed by the limbs until the reverse progression happens in the age of gunpowder. It wasn't until the 14th century that blast furnace technology caught up to the ability to manufacture large enough plates of quality steel or iron to make things like single piece or multi-piece breastplates. A lot of the earlier helmets are of riveted construction, so made from smaller pieces of steel, shaped, and riveted together. What drove the push in technology is up to interpretation. Was it better arms rendering the mail less effective? Couched lances punching through hauberks? There are lots of potential causes.

[@SnakeWasRight]

Knyght Errant Interesting, I guess the Romans had plate long before the age of Vikings, so the norsemen could have armored themselves with plate, but didn't because the shield was the primary heavy armor, maille was sufficient against the weapons of the time, and any plate you did have would preferentially be used for the head? Was plate more difficult or slower to manufacture, or were larger plates the technology that needed to evolve? Or was there just not enough iron production itself?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Roman Lorica Segmentata is a very different beast when compared to medieval plate armor. It's manufacture was expensive and it was apparently difficult to maintain and eventually fell out of favor as the Romans returned to Lorica Hamata (mail shirts) in the place of Segmentata some time in the 3rd century. Even during its relatively short period of service (in the grand scheme of Ancient Rome), mail was still present the entire time. We're also talking about very different cultures over time, so there was no opportunity for an unbroken line of progressive improvement in metallurgy from Rome to the Vikings or other Germanic cultures. A notable study published in the book 'The Knight and the Blast Furnace' shows correlation between the size of the iron bloom smiths were able to produce from larger and better blast furnaces to the proliferation of plate armor in the 14th century. The larger the bloom, the larger the plate that could be hammered from it, etc..

[@SuperFunkmachine]

I argue that massed archers/crossbows are forceing some kind of semi solid trunk armour, the coat of plates and brigandine that make one almost proof against bow and crossbows. Even if pieced the arrow / bolt with have given you a much lesser wound.

[@SnakeWasRight]

Is there a reason there are no besagews in your set? Also, what happens if an enemy knight tries to untie or cut the knot holding the arm harness on, would that take that knight out of service?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Besagews fell out of favor in the mid 14th century and then didn't reappear until the beginning of the 15th century. Why that is, is unknown. Untying the points wouldn't really be viable in a battle situation unless your opponent was already disabled and separated from his line. Cutting the points is a possibility. If that were to occur, the spaudler would have the opportunity to flap away from the shoulder if it somehow became completely severed, but the arm harness is still strapped in place (and potentially pointed) elsewhere. It would not immediately take a man-at-arms out of service.

[@SnakeWasRight]

Knyght Errant Thanks, and as I read this, I can see the aventail (?) is protecting the shoulder ties. Just seemed a bit flimsy to me at first.

[@mrredeef]

I really like later pauldrons better, especially gothic with lots of segments, if correctly placed you can do "From the roof" stance with ease.

[@mrredeef]

+mrredeef The mail being held on your arm by your pauldron is also giving you weight to lift when you try to lift your arms higher.

[@mrredeef]

+mrredeef But when it's all said and done, your suit is historically accurate, and with most weapons you dont need to strike from the roof, especially the poleaxe, you can do plenty of damage without lifting your hand above your ear.

[@mrredeef]

+mrredeef I think I wanna see you get something off the top of your shelf wearing your mail, breastplate and full arm protection.

[@PieterBreda]

I guess all this armour had to bespoke/custom-made for every person. Just a bit too small or tight and it would hurt to wear it or just wouldn't fit. And that I a period without machines. No wonder it was so expensive. Mail and aketons could be made to fit several persons but I wonder if this would work for plate.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Pieter Batenburg There is a class of armor referred to as 'Munitions Grade' which is much less refined and more of an off-the-rack sizing to outfit large numbers of men-at-arms. But high end armor would have been fitted specifically to the wearer. A top quality armor in period could be the equivalent purchase today of financing a house or buying a very expensive sports car depending on how wealthy the wearer was.

[@almusquotch9872]

Is it worth having chain mail underneath the plates, don't the plates already provide enough protection? If the mail only covered the gaps the armor could be lighter.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Almus Quotch Specifically with my harness, my entire back is a 'gap.' I don't wear a backplate, so I have to wear a full shirt of mail under my harness. If I were wearing a full cuirass (breast and backplate), I would wear discrete sleeves of mail and a separate skirt for exactly the reasons you describe.

[@MaMastoast]

+Knyght Errant Instead of wearing entire sleeves, coud you not have specific pieces of chain attached to the gaps in the plate? So it would simply only be there to close off the gaps.

[@nightslayer78]

Why do you need plate on the arms? Since the main point of adding plate was to add protection from stab wounds that mail can't protect, wouldn't be extremely hard to get a landing thrust on the arms?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Plate is also far more resilient as protection against cuts, polearms and missile weapons. Having plate on the arms makes cuts against an armored opponent a huge waste of time. Keep in mind that even after plate protection for the limbs became normal, targets like the inside of the elbow and the armpit are considered prime thrusting targets. That's a far smaller target than a whole arm or leg, and even with plate armor they thought them vulnerable enough to protect indirectly with the fans on the outside of the elbow/knee or rondels in the armpits.

[@nightslayer78]

Knyght Errant That makes sense, thank you.

[@annedebroeck2451]

I wanted to ask you, why do the men-at-arms in this manuscript from around 1370 not wear an arm harness, only mail sleeves? What could be the reason for this? manuscriptminiatures.com/media/manuscriptminiatures.com/original/620-12.jpg

[@KnyghtErrant]

Armors were worn in all kinds of different configurations depending on all kinds of factors from what role they will be fulfilling on the battlefield to economic factors. An arm harness is fatiguing, no matter how well it fits. Some times it is better to be lightly equipped and accept the additional risk at the benefit of superior mobility and fatigue management. It's also not uncommon to see mounted men-at-arms wearing lighter configurations of armor (no shoulder defenses at all except mail, light barbutes instead of heavy armets with wrappers etc..) when serving in a light cavalry role next to troops much more heavily equipped who are configured as heavy cavalry. Every configuration is suited to an optimal role, and subject to availability of equipment.

[@fredward7476]

Can we see your armor in action? Any sparring vids?

[@KnyghtErrant]

I don't have any fighting videos in this armor, but I do have a few videos where you see the armor in motion with mobility demonstrations. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYO1Z3xjd7F-mLM

[@fredward7476]

Thank you. I now realize you probably aren't in a hurry to get your armor scratched or dented.

[@MaxTheGamingMan]

anyone knows the exact year the images at 2:50 and 3:06 come from?

[@KnyghtErrant]

2:50 - Tours BM MS 08, folio 299v, c1320 Spain - www.enluminures.culture.fr/documentation/enlumine/fr/BM/tours_010-03.htm 3:06 - Funeral brass of William de FitzRalph d. 1320, but the brass may date to later - www.themcs.org/armour/knights/Pebmarsh%20St%20John%20the%20Baptist%20William%20Fitzralph%201323%2020.jpg

[@MrBurny546]

Do you know since when full arm protection was used on the european mainland? I know, that on the British islands, full arm plates were used much earlier as on the european mainland. Around 1350 every english knight seems to wear some of these, while the french and german counterparts do not seem to wear anything like that......

[@KnyghtErrant]

+MrBurny546 Well, it's going to be different for each region even within the European mainland. For example, in France fully articulated arm harness seems to be common by the 1380s, showing up a couple decades earlier in smaller numbers. Probably a little later in Germany. The specific style I'm wearing in the video is very peculiar to England though and doesn't really show up on the mainland at all.

[@MrHusang23]

Those effigies are so weird. The guy is wearing a helmet, but also has a helmet under his arm at 4:10. The others are holding their legs in a cross-like shape, like they are walking, but they are obviously laying on their backs, which means that pose is more than uncomfortable. Why did the sculptors shaped them like this?

[@KnyghtErrant]

The helm is worn in addition to the bascinet when needed. At this point in time, they were designed to be worn _over_ a bascinet. In that particular effigy you can see little vertical projections on the left and right sides of the bascinet he is wearing. It is speculated that these help seat the helm properly when worn over it. If you'd like to see how this configuration works, check out my 'Great Helm' video here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXm1maepnc-jftU&t As far as crossed-legs, some people speculate that the position of the legs on an effigy are symbolic of certain achievements or characteristics of the individual portrayed.

[@MrHusang23]

@@KnyghtErrant Thanks! I've already watched the Great Helm, after my comment, so I already knew that:)

[@MegaSweeney123]

Shields were used for heraldric display and had function... Considering every other bit of kit has function, why would this be an exception? Because they're wooden and covered in hide? Weren't shields wooden and covered in hide? My speculation is they were a sort of proto-pauldron that became unnecessary with the advent of the spaulder/gorget combo. Or at the very least, a piece of transitional armour that had more effective alternatives.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger There are records of sale and inventories from the late 13th and early 14th century that indicate at least some ailettes were made from things like parchment, thin leather, or textile. These would not offer any substantial defense. Blair states in European Armor, "It used to be though that their purpose was to protect the head and neck against cuts from the side, but this view can no longer be accepted. The many references to ailettes found in early 14th century texts show quite clearly that they were invariably made of flimsy material quite unsuited for any defensive purpose." But if you read earlier historians they will disagree. The point is it's still a debated topic, with nothing truly definitive. Most modern writers agree they were not defensive, but a healthy number of people think that they were. That being the case, I'm not in a position to say definitively that they are one thing or the other, but I didn't want to leave them out entirely.

[@MegaSweeney123]

Knyght Errant just for the thought exercise, as you say armour is a trade off between flexibility and protection. Something doesn't have to be made of hardened iron or steel to provide some slashing protection. But, at this early stage, perhaps they didn't have the technical skills to make flexible protection for the shoulders that STOPPED incoming blows, so they went with flexible protection that just made it more difficult to cut at the collarbone/neck. I mean, parchment is pretty much treated rawhide, it's barely analogous to paper haha For some reason, I don't know how common it is, but at least more historians than the past are saying impractical great helm crests were actually worn into battle (rather than tourneys).

[@KnyghtErrant]

They definitely had the technology at this time to use iron or steel shoulder cops or rondels (more likely iron at this time). Iron is not capable of being hardened, and low-carbon steels of the time weren't really capable of being significantly hardened either, but they're far more effective than parchment and they had the tech (and used it). They exist concurrently to ailettes and are much better suited to protective purposes. Parchment is considerably thinner than virtually all other treated animal skin products. I don't think it's addition would offer much protective value compared to what was already being worn. Compared to the heavily quilted/stuffed gambeson being worn under the hauberk, I can't imagine parchment being the difference between a crushed shoulder or just a really bad bruise. I don't have a dog in the fight. I don't *want* aliettes to be defensive *or* decorative. But the evidence suggests to me that they were likely more for display, and any defensive function was purely a side-benefit. They knew what protected them from cuts and what didn't. Having far better material alternatives available, I don't think they would opt for parchment or light textile in their place. Even something like a substantial piece of hardened leather would provide far more defensive properties than parchment and they still could have painted it, but they chose lighter materials in the documentary evidence we have. Your suggestion that crests were worn into battle actually supports the position that ailettes were not defensive. If they were willing to wear a piece of kit purely for heraldic display (like a helm crest) into battle, why would the ailettes need to be anything more than little crests for the shoulders? Take late 14th century plaque belts for example, they're a show of wealth and a means for display; A ticket to getting captured and ransomed instead of killed because of who you were, they're not defensive. Perhaps like a lot of armor decoration, ailettes served a similar purpose.

[@MegaSweeney123]

Knyght Errant yeah, I brought up the crests in the sense of their impracticality (catching incoming blows and the like), but I can definitely see flaunting who you are as a difference between being ransomed and killed. Although, in the Near East, where great helms sort of originated by Europeans, or at least their use was most frequently used (as I understand), I see that sort of social defense to be less likely. I dunno, I don't have any real personal attachments to ailettes, just I don't get why you'd wear something purely decorative into battle (even surcoats had the disguising/temperature control functions learned from the Saracens). But, that's not to say that wasn't the case. It's just got to take more than essentially the 'ceremonial' suggestion to convince me, as that's the default "we can't figure out what this was" statement (like ancient Egyptians wetting sand).

[@MegaSweeney123]

Like, ceremonial in lieu of other ideas doesn't cut it for me, if that makes sense.

[@ko-yw4sv]

15:11

[@MarekDohojda]

You should make a video of you trying to sneak up on someone in your full plate ;)

[@lughfiregod16]

+Marek Dohojda You can do it if you move _very_ slowly.

[@MarekDohojda]

So in about 3-4 days you can sneak up on someone who is 100 yards away?

[@lughfiregod16]

Marek Dohojda I mean a slow walk. The problem with plate armor is that moving causes a sound a bit like tapping tin cans into another. So you have to move with slower movements, so that you minimize the sound of that clanging.

[@MarekDohojda]

I know :) You gotta admit it would be fun to see if it could realistically be done. You would have to move ridiculously slowly, but maybe just maybe you could do it.

[@lughfiregod16]

Marek Dohojda Have you ever seen that sideways suffle-step that shooters do? It would look a lot like that.

[@LemonRibs]

how much did ur armour cost?

[@notsoprogaming9789]

why would the armor start at elbows n stuff?

[@IHaTeCookie05]

NOT SO PRO GAMING because they are joints and if they get damaged you cant use your whole arm

[@jedhaydney4176]

In the depiction of the knight at 3:11, why is he standing on a dog?

[@TanitAkavirius]

Do you know of any quality armorers in Europe?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+TanitAkavirius In the realm of armorers focusing on historical work, you have guys like Per Lillelund Jensen and Albert Collins in Sweden, Piotr Feret and Jacek Matera in Poland, Jiri Klepac in Czech Republic, Jan Schrader in Germany. Lots of competent armorers in Eastern Europe as well. There are of course a lot more than that, but that's just off the top of my head. You also have some more off-the-rack options at places like Matul's, Lorifactor, Kokosh's Manufacture and other similar places that aren't quite as custom.

[@landsknecht8654]

Where is your back plate?

[@KnyghtErrant]

There's no evidence for solid back plates in the late 14th century. Rigid back defense only comes in the form of smaller plates, like those found on coats of plates, or possibly smaller hinged wrapper plates, but true backplates aren't documentable until the early 15th century. There is ample evidence for the wear of solid breastplates without a backplate over a mail shirt as as I've done here for the late 14th century though, and since my harness needs to be appropriate for the 1380s, this is the configuration I went with. I'm in the process of getting a cuirass with breast and back, but that will only be for wear post 1400. Here's an example of how a solid breastplate would have been worn around the 1380s (lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZiqTESZvICI/UnoJRZUz68I/AAAAAAAABQ4/m1SrE0h-ZI4V01avDZMJTJW0TCSkhMKzgCL0B/w913-h685-no/IMG_7032.JPG)

[@demos113]

Best wife ever! :)

[@TheCompleteMental]

the armess

[@whowantsabighug]

Knyght Errant ft. Long Suffering Laydee Errant.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

Authentic shorts?

[@theCreativeAssemblymachinimas]

I cannot but ask: do you wear armor even in those intimate moments with your wife? I think that could be a kinda new way of making it out

[@Matias-nr6rm]

13:00 I hope those shorts are historically accurate

[@KnyghtErrant]

ca.1392

[@jeremiahyusufov9388]

So there was leather armor

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes. Leather armor is well documented. It just doesn't look much like the modern fantasy concept of it.

[@TheMasturCheef]

I always find it a bit weird when people who help in videos are not introduced and don't say anything...

[@Giloup92]

I think it was the same in 14th century....

[@KnyghtErrant]

+TheMasturCheef She's shy enough about doing what she already did ;)

[@TheMasturCheef]

Oh, okay :)

[@bakters]

+Knyght Errant Actually, if you look at how things work in theater, people who don't say anything are not even named in the script. I don't think it hurts your videos. The focus stays on you and what you are trying to say and show. Nothing wrong with that.

[@MegaRaven100]

Not giving folks who contribute, often for free, any recognition in person is NOT cool. Typical class arrogance and lack of respect. I found it very uncomfortable. It felt like a 5 minutes to a divorce moment. I could smell her resentment. Neither smiles even once. Now they might very well have the worlds best relationship (what do I know about these two individuals? Nothing!) but body language is the most honest language. Your medieval attitude sucks. Those that contribute do deserve some recognition. Not just the already appreciated stars. You say it kept the focus on the what was being shown when to me it made it uncomfortable to watch (cringe moment) and took away from the lessons. A friendly 'thank you to my wife' would NOT ruin the lessons!

[@thelonerider5644]

I was surprised it was so loud ...rattle rattle. guess the enemy would hear u coming?

[@KnyghtErrant]

There's nothing sneaky or quiet about fully armed men-at-arms.

[@PieterBreda]

So no car-jacking but armour-jacking. Had to kill the dude in the armour first.

[@abelbabel8484]

+Pieter Batenburg Better yet, keep him alive and sell him back to his own. Don't even have to spend the ransom on an armour because you already have his. :)

[@PieterBreda]

As in double the profit. But first you had to capture the dude in the high-end armour toting a very sharp sword and a nasty warhammer. Oh wait, I know the answer. Where are my serfs? Men, capture the big bastard in the armour and deliver him to me.

[@logical-functionsmodel9364]

+Pieter Batenburg Just don't run out of serfs, they can be quite expensive to acquire.

[@10THPROPHET]

She isnt a fair lady unless she helps her lord don his armor

[@lukesimms2392]

Hard to see people living out it dream 😂