The Breastplate, Protection for the Torso

In this video we will explore the functional use of historic torso protection, from the early coat of plates through solid steel breastplates and the full cuirass.
Metatron's KZbin Channel - / @metatronyt
Facebook - / knyghterrant
Support - / knyghterrant
Armorer Jeff Wasson
www.wassonartistry.com
#medievalarmor #livinghistory #coatofplates

[@maurossauro8088]

This might be a bit off topic, but I think lots of people would like to see you do some test cutting while wearing your armour set. Since not many if the youtubers that cover historical fencing generally cover historical armour, we'd like to see how you can move at full speed while in armour. Just a suggestion... And it'd look cool as hell to see you obliterate some bottles/tatami mats while clad in steel. :D

[@JustGrowingUp84]

I second that! Maybe you could also show us a drill or something like that...

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Mauro Degrossoli Good idea, I will definitely keep that in mind for a video down the line. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@maurossauro8088]

+Knyght Errant Alright man, I'm glad you'll consider it.

[@miguellavariel1348]

As an artist I have to say your videos really help to visualize the shapes of the armor. You did a splendid job explaining everything, thank you! :)

[@jennypoussin3866]

Matt (Easton) recommended your channel and he was right to do so! :) Really informative :)

[@rhaivaen]

What a lovely assistant you have, lol.

[@metatronyt]

Hey thank you SO MUCH for the shout :D I appreciate it a lot! I have just finished editing my next video (knight vs samurai) and I am going to mention you there ^___^ it will be online soon. keep up the good work and great video as always :) :)

[@metatronyt]

+Metatron ps: and you look cool in armour with the new beard ^^

[@The_Gallowglass]

+Metatron Kiss him already. ;D *nudge*

[@foxknapp2199]

Metatron its ya boi

[@CoffeeSnep]

Wow. This is a real blast from the past right here! It's like finding a time capsule!

[@thatchannel195]

@@CoffeeSnep ye

[@longpinkytoes]

@14:08 Todd's Workshop has interesting videos that suggest perhaps the stop rib was intended to deflect arrows hitting the breastplate from finding their way into gaps in the visor of the helm, and also that a jupon, while useful for displaying heraldry, also traps arrow shaft shrapnel like kevlar

[@jdzencelowcz]

Great vids, but I really wish there was more on KZbin about Bronze Armor. Highly underrated material.

[@extrastuff9463]

Actually showed up on this channel from the metatron when he referred this channel, watched all the armour related videos and well it was definitely interesting. I've always considered armour an interesting subject matter but have other hobbies that have a higher priority at the moment, I've been aware of various details regarding many of those things for quite some years but there were interesting bits that are nice to see. Also to see the process of putting armour on properly from start to finish for that historical context is a thing I can't recall seeing in detail before on video. I've read descriptions of various stages in the past but it's a lot easier to understand and remember with such visual aids.

[@GermanSwordMaster]

I think its important to note, that the visby CoPs were outdated and démodé by 1361 :) Brilliant vid, as always.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Blank- blade Yes, that is a good and important point that I should have made in the video. The Visby finds are pretty much exclusively from the losing Gotland peasants, and they were wearing equipment very much old fashioned and outdated by the actual battle's date in 1361.

[@extrasmack]

Greetings from Texas. I found your channel via metatron ironically. So far i am loving it. Your presentation style is concise and as thorough as possible in such short segments and everything is neatly documented with no myth or misinformation. This has got to be one of the most informative and underappreciated channels around. Kudos and keep up the excellent work.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Paul Alvarado Thank you Paul, I'm glad that you're enjoying the presentations! Welcome to the channel, and thanks Metatron for pointing you my way, I love his stuff!

[@extrasmack]

+Knyght Errant i too greatly enjoy his in depth. expositions complete with LINGUISTICS no less. imho metatron Matt Easton and yourself form an indispensable triumvirate when it comes to authentic information. I have always been the type to learn/research via more traditional means, but am recently loving the wealth of knowledge available on KZbin of all places. Recently I find myself devouring videos and playlists like a starving castaway. This is what the www is for. A pox on all the other fluff and tabloid nonsense floating around. lol

[@Ammoroth9]

Really good video :) Informative and I enjoyed all the pictures you added so that I actually could see how the historical armour was designed. I also like the fact that you're talking about armour. So many channels talk about historical weapons and do tests on different swords and so on. But this was a good, not to long not to short video with a lot of information and explenation. Keep up the good work :)

[@Domnall1234]

You nailed it. You do a very good job with the mechanics and wear of the armor.

[@jk_actual]

Your videos are amazing man! In-depth, engaging, concise and very informative. Keep up the great work! Hope all is well.

[@baronprocrastination1722]

So someone called domed breastplates 'ugly' today. I feel attacked ;_;

[@TheOneAndOnlyLewis]

Thanks so much, this is extremely helpful for artists!

[@conradswadling8495]

nice work

[@volgg]

WOw! that was informative! thank you so much for this video!

[@MrLazyeyedhobo]

Great video thanks

[@kriegschwert]

Great video Ian, thanks to Matt Easton for sharing it. Now I know why my cuirass doesn't allow me to sit properly. Even though it was made to my measurements, its a bit over sized in both length and width. Lots of good topics on your channel to browse, looking forward to the arming garment one.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+kriegschwert Thank you, I didn't realize Matt had shared it, so thanks to him as well! My old breastplate had exactly the same problem. It was too tall, so it did not terminate where it should have. The result actually made it dangerous, because it was possible for the breastplate to get knocked directly into my throat if I fell forward and bent forward at the same time.

[@mattbrown5511]

Very well presented. I will be subscribing.

[@TheMasaoL]

excellent reference

[@petman515]

yes the cobbled to gather armor you mentioned is a crummy piece of armor its also if i remember correctly he made it from several incomplete suits that where several centenary apart

[@Caradepato]

Thank you for the great video! Metatron sent me ;).

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Tomas Rocha Martins Wonderful, welcome to the channel!

[@Caradepato]

so far, im very impressed. good research, great pictures, good explanation.

[@Izirath]

Did you ever get around to doing a video about mail collars? I miss it!

[@Lady_highrock]

Very nice video, if you don't mind me asking is the armor depicted at 8:19 a historical piece preserved or a faithful recreation of the style? It looks very pretty and I'd like to see if I can find more photos and information about it.

[@ronin1648]

This channel is so good. I just discovered it. However it seems he's no longer uploading videos?

[@OzzyCrescat]

I'm amazed by your equipement. Don't even want to ask the price ;) I see your armour pieces don't have a scratch, do you also perform reenactment fights?

[@Askorti]

Very interesting video. Do you by any chance own any lamellar or scale armor? I'm interested in its functionality and history, but don't know where to look for reliable information that would be free of myths and misconceptions.

[@emaralez]

awesome. thank you for your job! what source is used on 12:45? never seen this bas-relief before... very interesting))

[@KnyghtErrant]

That is one of the panels on the Pistoia Silver Altarpiece, Pistoia Cathedral, Italy. Those panels date to the last quarter of the 14th century. Here's a great album of more images: plus.google.com/photos/100790497411532788238/albums/5943072822025303825

[@sergiodemartinez1415]

Hi Ian, great video! I’m visiting Prague next month and hopefully will get some armor made for me. Towards the end of this video( 16:45) you have a pic a solider/knight displaying his back straps. Regarding his helmet, it’s clear that he wears an open face bascinet with the aventail attached correct? Is this a late 14th C representation? Also were there man at arms/soldiers that wore a similar helmets over just a mail coif instead of the aventail at that point?

[@KnyghtErrant]

That image is of the Pistoia Silver Altarpiece, c1380s. The aventail arrangement would be more typical.

[@sergiodemartinez1415]

Ok thanks!

[@spinnetti]

Might have missed it, but where did you get the armor? I'd like to get some decent fitting stuff I can spar in that looks the part.

[@SuperRichyrich11]

Where do you get this armor from?? I really want that breast plate... the leg and arm harness would be dope too. I'm good on the helmet though.

[@ChateauLonLon]

That fabric covered globos breastplate featured in the thumbnail is very cool! Do you have any idea why fabric-covered plates fell out of fashion? Thanks!

[@Starwarsfan2020]

Hey Ian where do you get a full plate armor made properly and custom fitted

[@longpinkytoes]

@19:19 i believe there is a type of ancient greek armour that uses vertical plates although i have heard it referred to as a skirt, not a fauld, and seems quite functional

[@nicholasricardo8443]

They're called Pteruges and it's not known if they were stiff protection or decorative. Since there are so many of them and they were less stiff at the top where they were fastened you may have been able to sit with them. If they weren't stiff of course you would be able to sit with them like they were a regular kilt or skirt

[@longpinkytoes]

@@nicholasricardo8443 pickle barrel facsimiles seem capable of making fighters accidentally 'tank' sword/axe/mace blows that should have taken the leg

[@nicholasricardo8443]

@@longpinkytoes Yeah the thorax is a really confusing piece of armor because we have very little practical info on how it was constructed

[@longpinkytoes]

@@nicholasricardo8443 the 'useless' frilly bits on knee and elbow cops, and the same effect from bell kettle helms seems to show that diffusing a solid connect can be as good as resisting/bridging it with solid plate

[@Pravdik918]

Great video, found your channel thanks to "scholagladiatoria". I wanted to ask, how would you rate the roman lorica segmentata, since it was made some 1300 years before the medieval plate ? I think it served it's purpouse pretty well :)

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Pravdik 189 Firstly, thank you for coming over! Secondly, I will admit I have not studied Roman armor in nearly as much detail as I have Medieval armor so I do have a knowledge gap there. I will say though, that I've always thought of medieval plate armor as a very different beast from Roman segmentata. The articulation and fit of medieval armor seems to be much superior to the way lorica segmentata was made. The way medieval plate armor interacts with the arming garments makes it very conducive to comfortable wear. Articulation of lames also seems be much tighter and more fluid in the way it moves on medieval armor. I don't have any firsthand experience with Roman lorica segmentata though, so there could certainly be some bias there. Roman armor certainly worked, or they wouldn't have used it, and it's pretty remarkable for its time, but it's similarities to Medieval plate armor are a bit limited in my opinion.

[@Pravdik918]

Thanks for replying :) I think that they also didn't need armour as good as was the medieval one because simply most of the blows were blocked by the shield and the armour was just secondary defense. Also it was pretty difficult to get a hit against a legionnaire in a formation as they proved in many battles. But as it was said before... Different eras, different armours and tactics :)

[@Pravdik918]

I also have to say that my late medieval knowledge is somehow limited :D

[@sarcastichamsandwich5413]

In terms of the coats of plate, what fabric was usually used to hold it into a full garment? I've heard that leather is used, and that because leather was used, this is where people gain the misconception that leather armor (with no plating) was frequent in the European Middle Ages. I'm not sure if that is true or not. Fantastic vid as always. You really offer some insight on armor that I haven't been able to get anywhere else.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Emnuzuse Alor Leather was used on some coat of plates style constructions as well as normal fabric textiles like heavy canvas linen. Leather was used as armor as well, just not in the styles and forms that we usually see in modern entertainment.

[@2bit8bytes]

At 16:48, the pic of the metal display, idk what exactly it is, has the back straps seemingly covered in rivet-like caps. Is that common for actual armor, maybe for a little metal protection so they're less likely to be cut or purely a stylistic choice for the art piece? Also, in your Mail video, you said that mail generally wasn't flat like modern recreations, but usually more 3 dimensional that they'd work to flatten. Ignoring technological disparity/methods, which would be better reinforcement? Is flatter mail more effective or vice versa?

[@KnyghtErrant]

It's not something I've seen in any actual surviving leather straps on armor, it's difficult to say exactly what the artist was going for. Concerning mail, modern mail is so flat that it tends to be too thin as a result and isn't all that difficult to bend. It also tends to make those squared off edges catch on things, and makes it a little less comfortable and probably harder on undergarments. Historical mail would be best described as _flattened_ rather than _flat_ if that makes sense. Some solid rings, which were punched from sheet are an exception to this, but riveted flattened rings generally began life as round wire and were flattened with a hammer after being annealed so they retain rounded edges. I think the historical product is superior. A ring with a round cross section is easy to bend open. A ring with a flatter cross section resists deformation in that plane, and it also presents more surface area to your expected thread than a round ring of equivalent mass. Making the ring super flat, like most modernly made mail doesn't really increase that benefit, and it comes with additional drawbacks that aren't present in the historical stuff.

[@2bit8bytes]

Thanks a lot for the clarification! Just binge watched your videos over the last day. :)

[@2bit8bytes]

Thanks for the clarifications and quick response! (and the great videos which I binged) :)

[@genericfakename8197]

It's cool to compare medieval armour to historical armour. Modern plate carriers are essentially a reinforcement of the ribcage like historical breastplates.

[@stevengood1812]

I saw in a previous video was your shoes how did you find templates I've looked all over and cannot find any

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Steven Good For shoes I use 3 main resources for historical patterning and construction: Shoes and Pattens (www.amazon.com/Shoes-Pattens-Medieval-Excavations-London/dp/1843832380/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451141322&sr=8-1&keywords=shoes+and+pattens) Stepping Through Time (www.amazon.com/Stepping-Through-Time-Archaeological-Prehistoric/dp/9089320040/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451141276&sr=8-1&keywords=stepping+through+time) Archaeological Footwear (www.amazon.com/Archaeological-Footwear-Development-Patterns-Prehistory/dp/9089321179/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451141347&sr=8-1&keywords=archaeological+footwear)

[@godofimagination]

Damn Bashford Dean. Do you know anything else about that harness? I've never seen shoulders like that anywhere else, and the helm is only one of two bascinets I know of not to have an aventail (the other being a munitions grade bascinet).

[@godofimagination]

+godofimagination And the mail looks like a bishop's mantle.

[@hughmcdonald3039]

+godofimagination The shoulders are a Bashford Dean abomination which are apocryphal. Not sure about the bascinet. I can recall at least one 14thC great bascinet that doesn't appear to have had an aventail, which is inv. CA 1472-1 in Musee des Beaux-Arts, Dijon - but aside from that I can think of at least 20 other extant examples with aventails or vervelles/vervelle holes, so regardless of whether the bascinet is a true representation, it would be not be the most typical style.

[@robertlukacs4954]

Is Edward of Woodstock’s effigy depicting plate armour or a coat of plates? They look very similar when textile is covering it.

[@KnyghtErrant]

It's impossible to know for sure, but based on the date of 1376 it's very likely that he has a complete late style coat of plates under his jupon.

[@shendoboy]

Awesome videos! This may have been asked before, but who is the maker of your armour?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Junior De Faria Hi, the gentleman who made my armor (with the exception of the helmet) is Jeff Wasson, www.wassonartistry.com

[@ekimr90]

What I want to know about of the coat of plates was why they were riveted to the inside. Perhaps to hide gaps in the armor from an opponent?

[@Player_Review]

What was the steel/iron composition historically used? Did it have any corrosion resistant properties, or did they have to maintain it with oils quite often?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Jeremy Madsen Historical armor composition is all over the map. It ranges from pure iron, to medium carbon steels and even some higher carbon steels that ended up being too brittle. The later into the period you go, the more common heat hardened medium carbon steels become. The only corrosion resistant properties of medieval armor were by virtue of its level of polish. The more polished the surface, the more rust-resistant due to the smoother surface (less places to retain moisture). Armors would have required regular maintenance with use, and especially in the field.

[@Ywaine]

Great video, I must ask, you mention the segmented breastplate from churburg. I know there is some controversy about its age, does anyone have any good sources?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Tommy Fredriksson I've seen earlier datings to the 1360s and 70's, but most people are skeptical of the evidence which was apparently based on inventory records of a 'breastplate' with no description being picked up, so it's nowhere near definitive that it was *that* breastplate. Most people seem to agree that anything pre 1380 is unlikely. I'm no expert, but I'm inclined to agree that pre-1380 is wishful thinking.

[@Ywaine]

+Knyght Errant Thank yo for the answer, I'm thinking about making one like it for my 1380 kit...

[@Secret7Lover]

Dear Knyght Errant, I have a question, suppose a knight wearing a plate cuirass but the breastplate overlaps the plackart would he be able to bend easily?

[@KnyghtErrant]

the plackart should overlap the breastplate not the other way around. On a breastplate / plackart configuration the breastplate itself is usually very short and nests into the plackart like a truncated ball and socket, so it's very mobile.

[@Xirpzy]

Wow everything has a function. Didnt think the stopper was anything more than decoration.

[@jacobe1942]

I am interested in how the technology of the production of plates of steel progressed. Did they take large chunks of smelted iron and beat it down into sheets, or did the make multiple small sheets and forge weld them together?

[@KnyghtErrant]

The former. Smelted iron beat into sheets with the help of things like water-powered trip hammers. If you're really interested in this topic, look for a copy of the book "The Knight and the Blast Furnace." It's the definitive volume on the metallurgy behind medieval armor. The ability to smelt large enough chunks of iron or steel with the use of larger controllable blast furnaces was one of the technological advances that enabled the creation of things like a single piece breastplate in the first place.

[@jacobe1942]

thanks for the tip! only 325 for a used copy on amazon! its been a dream of mine to make a suit historically inspired fantasy

[@jacobe1942]

to be beat out of a single ingot is pretty impressive, to have the patience to keep it from cracking

[@dvklaveren]

Did the plackart exclusively sit in front of the breastplate or are there known examples of breastplates sitting in front of the plackart? I'm noticing a lot of fantasy art with plackart-like designs, but inverted.

[@jasonpayne5686]

Does the top edge of the breastplate hit you in the throat as you bend forward? I cant imagine the historical design would interfere with that forward movement but it looks like it might. Thanks!

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Jason Payne No, but my old breastplate did, which is dangerous. If you fall it could crush your larynx, which would very much defeat the purpose of armor :) That's why getting the proper fit in height is important for a breastplate. The mail collar I'm wearing appears to add a lot of bulk to my neck, so it may look closer than it actually is. One of the key factors that can affect a breastplate hitting you in the throat is if it is too long at the waist. If the breastplate extends lower than your natural waist (belly button line, where we move, not where your jeans sit), as you bend forward, your hips and abdomen would push the breastplate up into your throat. When it ends properly *at* the natural waist, when you bend forward all the motion of your body is happening below the lower edge of the breastplate and so it won't be pushed up. The collapsing fauld ensures that the fauld won't do the same thing.

[@jasonpayne5686]

Thanks!

[@Isaac_howell]

Are there any cases of separate faulds and breastplates? Considering many of the earlier breastplates, like churburg 13, seem to lack protection for this area.

[@KnyghtErrant]

There are no survivals of separate faulds, but they likely existed, as there are listings in inventories for a 'paunce of plates' separate from the breastplate. There are also examples of breastplates worn without faulds earlier on, as the mail is protection for this area.

[@Isaac_howell]

Knyght Errant Thank you, excellent video as always

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

+Knyght Errant Isnt it interesting that coat-of-plates in the 14th century were generally equipped with some form of backplate, but people did not in general wear independent solid backplates until much later?

[@KnyghtErrant]

John Huang Toby Capwell and Robert MacPherson have speculated that it may have been manufacturing issue. Solid one-piece backplates are a very different animal than Coat of Plates construction. Back defense tends to be much thinner than its corresponding breastplate. Trying to shape a large single piece of thin metal tends to lead to a lot of warping and twisting even before heat treatment gets involved. As single solid piece breastplates started to pop up in the last quarter of the 14th century, it seems that the advantage to having more robust defense of the front of the torso outweighed the disadvantage of not having a backplate, at least until the technology caught up. For example, a mounted man-at-arms is a lot more worried about his chest than his back. To him, the new fancy breastplate may have seemed like a better option than a full coat of plates. The earliest forms of uncovered backplate (i.e., not riveted to a foundation layer a la CoP design) take shape as hinged 'saloon doors' that cover a portion of the back, or backplates made from multiple pieces and buckled. So they were working on it, but it took longer to get right than the front half. By the time the solid one-piece backplate was perfected, it became the standard.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

Knyght Errant Gee thanks, wasnt expecting such a comprehensive answer so rapidly!

[@manyheadedmishaps6182]

126th! More importantly, could a globose coat of plates still concievably function if the textile were removed, or would it just fall apart. I'm trying to find some excuse to give a D&D character plate armor with a great helm...

[@KnyghtErrant]

UnimpressiveGoo the textile is structural in this case. The breastplate itself could possibly be salvaged from it and be re-strapped, but the rest of the armor would fall apart.

[@manyheadedmishaps6182]

Grrr... Alright. Thank you!

[@Whathellllll]

Can you please tell me the datation of the Pistoia's silver altar piece?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Whathellllll The silver altarpiece of Saint James was completed in different sections over a very long time. The particular photos I showed in this video are from the lateral sides of the altar, are attributed to Leonardo di Ser Giovanni, and thought to have been completed between 1361 and 1371.

[@Whathellllll]

Thank you!

[@jamessarvan7692]

In the era when coat of plates were prominent, did some knights still choose to use only mail, or was it already outdated to do so then?

[@KnyghtErrant]

The era of the coat of plates lasted a good long while. When they were first being developed in the last half of the 13th century the mail hauberk was still very common. In the first part of the 14th century, you still see plenty of full mail hauberks. As time goes on the hauberk as the primary defense becomes less and less common. Certainly by the second half of the 14th century, wearing a mail hauberk without a coat of plates over it would be the exception, and in no way would have been considered typical of the knightly class. There are still occasional images of full hauberks that late, but they're outliers.

[@jamessarvan7692]

+Knyght Errant thank you very much for the response. Would you say that mail could still be worn as a primary defense in the middle of the 14th century by poorer infantry soldiers?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes, absolutely would still be used by poorer soldiers. They didn't have access to the high end stuff, so out-of-date armors would be much more common among the lower classes.

[@PzAz04Maus]

How would you spell the "Globos" plate?

[@KnyghtErrant]

globose

[@jacksonguillory8114]

@@KnyghtErrant q1qaz2wsx3edc4rfv5tgb6yhn7ujm8ik9ol0p

[@Sadeyr]

Not really a breastplate, but how strong would leather that is hardened be in comparison to the other forms of armor; gambeson, mail, plate, etc- Would leather be better protection than a gambeson? Or well, with the knowledge we have access to, would it? I know with leather is difficult to know too much about in that time period, with most of it being gone at this point, but I've not even seen like.. modern-day stuff tested much. I'm not a big fan of it, but my friend thinks it would handle more than a gambeson could, if hardened. I'm unsure! Fantasy tends to hype up leather a lot more than I've ever actually seen it be able to manage, but I'm far from an expert.

[@QBLHqblh]

facts

[@mr.fourier6806]

Is your armour hardend? Was this historically done?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes, my armor is hardened via a full quench and temper. We have evidence for historical plate armors being hardened by at least the 14th century, when it was still relatively rare and likely relegated to high-end pieces. Historical hardening was sometimes accomplished through a full quench and temper or a slack quench depending on location and time. Over the course of the 15th century it becomes more common. Even when hardening was well known it is not universal though, many well known pieces are low C steel or nearly pure wrought iron. Interestingly, in some cases hardening was attempted on armors of steel with less than 0.3% C content, so the effects were negligible but tried anyway, telling us that at least some craftsmen didn't have a full grasp on the science behind the process but they were experimenting.

[@PredatorKillsAlien]

I'll bet you never thought that by making these you would be helping someone work on something for a WWII story, did you?

[@gnomeemporer873]

Midget Tosser what you on about?

[@basilb4524]

what's the difference between a brigandine and a coat of plates?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Modernly, when referring to a brigandine, we generally mean a construction with smaller, more numerous plates that often opens in the front, but these definitions are very fluid and often have counterexamples. All we know is medieval people did differentiate between the two in some inventories and what exactly they meant by each name is not known.

[@Eternaldream00]

Why didn't you get a full cuirass with a backplate? Would that be out of period?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Eternaldream00 Short answer, yes that's exactly why. Long answer: There's unfortunately no evidence for solid backplates in the 14th century as of yet. There is evidence for back defense in the form of coat of plate construction as well as some smaller plates that may wrap around to the back (like Churburg #13) or possible hinged 'saloon door' plates that protect a small portion of the back, but a full solid backplate isn't really supported until the 15th century. A solid breastplate, over mail shirt with no rigid back defense is all over artwork in the 14th century. My armor needed to be able to be plausible for the late 14th and early 15th century (my living history group sometimes does scenarios on either side of the turn of the 14th/15th century) so because of that I elected to skip the backplate. There are plans in the future to get a full cuirass, but it will only be appropriate for the 15th century onwards.

[@Eternaldream00]

Thanks for the long reply. I wonder why that was, didn't romans and greeks already have backplates?

[@annedebroeck2451]

I was wondering, looking at depictions of French men at arms in the 14th century, they often wore a padded jupon over their breastplate. My question is: would they still wear a gambeson underneath the breastplate then?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Under plate armor, the arming garments are typically quite thinly padded and as time goes on not really padded at all even if they remain quilted. So jupon or not, the arming doublet / aketon underneath isn't particularly thick.

[@annedebroeck2451]

@@KnyghtErrant That's interesting. Would they have worn an arm harness underneath the jupon, since I can't imagine that it would fit underneath. Would those breastplates have had a backplate too if the aketon was that thin? I can't find a lot of info on this.

[@annedebroeck2451]

@@KnyghtErrant Also, if they had no backplate, would they wear a mail shirt with long sleeves?

[@jared925]

Did faulds ever come farther down the body than they do on your armour? The faulds on Matt Easton's armour from scholagladiatoria almost completely cover his groin. Is that normal or just a personal choice of his? Matt Easton's armour: s80.photobucket.com/user/matteaston/media/100_4445.jpg.html

[@godofimagination]

+Jared McClelland He made a video talking about how the English preferred to fight on foot, and therefore had longer faulds.

[@jared925]

thanks. I must have missed that video

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Jared McClelland Yes, both long and short faulds are represented in artwork and on survivals, even within English examples of the turn of the 14th / 15th century. By 1415, most representations on English funeral effigies show a longer fauld than during the late 14th century. Matt Easton's cuirass is of a style that would be a decade or two in the future from when mine would be 'cutting edge' tech. Mine would be more fashionable for the twilight of the 14th century, and largely considered older by Agincourt in 1415.

[@jared925]

Knyght Errant Thanks. I haven't decided whether I want faulds or not but I definitely use your info to help me decide.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

+Knyght Errant Was it possible for a man-at-arms to fight on horseback with the style of faulds worn by Mr Easton, or was it made specifically for fighting on foot like Henry VIII's tonlet?

[@erikgranqvist3680]

I know its grossly late for a comment. I think, though, that you could fiddle around with the straps lf the breastplate, så that you could get it on without help. Different length of the straps would be one thing. The reason I say that is because I think that soldiers are, and hace allways been, practical. Someone in the middle ages would think "wouldnt it be nice if I could armour up on myself in a pinch?" However, I have absolutley no facts supporting this. It's just a very loose theory I have played around with for a while.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Erik Granqvist It's never too late for a comment! :) You could set it up in a way that the criss-crossing shoulder straps could be thrown on overhead, in an emergency I suppose. The problem is that the weight of a breastplate is designed to be almost exclusively supported at the natural waist. The shoulder straps are not really the load bearing straps. Because of this, the breastplate's waist strap is the strap that needs to be fastened as tight as you can stand. This of course needs to be done behind your back. If you put it on with the shoulder straps already done, you will transfer the weight of the breastplate to the back and shoulders. Can it be physically done? Certainly, it's just not how they were designed, and it won't quite sit, feel or wear correctly. Corrazinas, coats of plates, and later cuirasses also often featured buckles centered in the back.

[@seanrea550]

+Knyght Errant not to mention that soldiers would be as a unit so armoring up could be done by squads as well. task that need assistance could be handled by the squad mates.

[@heldaneurbanus5135]

It's interesting that in Japan side-fastening breastplates (do or dou) were developed to try and avoid this issue. Particularly for the common foot soldier (ashigaru wielding matchlocks, spears or other polearms, or bows). Back-fastened armour was also known to have extra-long straps so a samurai could fasten them himself and tie it off across the waist. Your work is truly fantastic. I knew a little already but have learned so much from you. Particularly hard-to-come-by details.

[@Gloin79]

Why can't we see the rivets coming out of the upper lame of the faulds?

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Gloin79 The rivets are slightly counter sunk into the lame and then polished flush. If I showed you a close-up photograph you would see the faint outline of the rivet head polished to the level of the rest of the lame. This was pretty common on survivals of the 14th century when the rivet head had no decorative purpose. It's one less place a weapon can catch.

[@Gloin79]

Okay thanks! I forgot to ask what the steel thickness was of your breastplate.

[@luciacochrane-davis9940]

I’m amused by that textile-coated three-piece globular breastplate - it looks like dungeons and dragons boob armour from the front. Petition to replace all boobplates with that thing?

[@patliao556]

Why not a backplate at the point in history where your armor was prevalent? They had the technology, clearly, to form large plates for armor, I'm curious as to why breast and back only seems to have become a thing toward the end of the Middle Ages, especially since so much of knightly combat seems to have ended with one opponent on the ground, or otherwise in a position where he wasn't necessarily presenting his front to his enemy.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Cook Unfortunately, there's just no evidence for solid backplates prior to the 15th century. There are segmented back defenses as they existed on coats of plates. There is also some evidence for hinged plates that wrapped around the side of the torso a bit and possibly covered at least portions of the back (similar to Churburg #13 but with actual hinges). But for whatever reason, there's just no smoking gun for the existence of true solid backplates in the 14th century yet. There is however, ample evidence for solid breastplates being worn over a mail shirt and padding without a backplate, so that's what I chose to go with as my kit needs to be usable for pre-1400 scenarios. Just as an aside, obviously plate is better protection than mail, but we modern people also tend to look back on armor and not give mail in combination with padding the credit it deserves as actual protection. People tend to look at my harness, and exclaim that I've neglected to defend my back. My back *is* defended. It's by mail and textile, it's just not protected by plate.

[@patliao556]

+Knyght Errant Thank you for your prompt response, I don't usually expect to get one for youtube comments, and your knowledge is much appreciated. I didn't mean to imply that the back is utterly unprotected, merely that in an age where the longsword, a weapon designed to thrust through pliable defenses, seemed fairly popular, it seems bizarre to me that the fighting nobility of Europe would elect to protect their backs with only mail or, as you say, partial plate protection. I don't know, seems like wearing only your front SAPIs-- not a great idea. Then again, I also admit that I don't fight in medieval harness so maybe these folk knew a thing or two that I didn't. Anyway, great video, great channel.

[@xinfinity8532]

+Knight errant 1) Can a top quality breastplate withstand a musket from 1700 2) Do Knights wear all 3 layers of armor, breastplate, mail, then arming jacket 3) Why are arming jackets thinner than gambesons and do arming jackets offer protection 4) Do you practice HEMA

[@KnyghtErrant]

1. I don't know about 1700, but in the 16th century it was a hotly debated topic just as it is today. There are plenty of examples of 'breastplates of proof' that were tested with gunfire and passed the test. In Dr. Alan Williams' _The Knight and the Blast Furnace_ he relates some anecdotal information from 16th century soldiers. Humphrey Barwick, in 1590, an experienced soldier and veteran, states clearly that in 'proof armor' a musket will kill a man inside 100 yards, in common armor at 400 yards, without armor at 600 yards. In the 17th century a cuirassier's armor could be as thick as 4+ mm and requires around 2000J of energy to defeat it. Muskets at close range were capable of delivering that much energy (with corned powder up to 3000J at close range). Pistol proof for sure, but musket proof depends on range entirely and impact angle etc. If the conditions favor the shooter, the musket will penetrate. 2. In some form usually, yes. The mail might be a full shirt or voiders or sleeves, depending on the type of plate armor being worn over top. 3. A true 'gambeson' is usually intended to be a stand alone piece of protection or in many cases an outer layer often worn _over_ mail armor. Modernly we tend to use the term to mean a lot more than it was used for in period. An arming jacket, or aketon, need only be a base layer for more protective armor and not be armor itself necessarily. If you wear a thick padded gambeson under plate armor you will not be able to move. Some arming garments include specific areas that are more padded (like the back for instance if not worn with a backplate), but the parts under plate armor have no reason to be excessively thick if the armor is made right and of good quality. 4. Yes, but not as much as I'd like.

[@xinfinity8532]

Knyght Errant Thanks once again Ian

[@xinfinity8532]

You should consider watching Conquest Knights in armor and Conquest Weird weapons of middle ages

[@Cheetorblz]

@@KnyghtErrant I have greatly enjoyed watching your videos. You mention above 17th century armor of 4mm. What thickness is your armor, and is it typical of the depicted time period? I always imagined plate armor to be thick and heavy, yet your armor appears fairly light? Thank for your time.

[@allangibson2408]

@@Cheetorblz Armor varies wildly depending on what it was designed for. Armor for tourneys, since it was only worn on horse, was much thicker than foot combat armor. Royal tourney armor was 5 to 13mm thick to protect against lance strikes. 1 to 2 mm was more common for foot combat armor - enough to protect against swords and hand axes.

[@mrredeef]

I mean, I've heard alot of talk about "Dont mix armor styles." and "Follow the original forms." but I've never really seen a versus test, and you have to realize that armor evolved alot of the centuries, and even though a piece of armor may not be perfectly functional... All of the 15th and 16th century styles did have to go through less functional stages before refining themselves. And so, if a modern person were to try and make an evolution in plate armor, you would assume that some of the stages would be a little wonky as they got to their refined form. Therefore I would not discourage people from straying from refined forms such as the milanese, the gothic, or the english. I would instead encourage armorers to play around and then try to refine what they have.

[@mrredeef]

+mrredeef I think alot of the high-waisted designs are only mandatory for horse riding. I've got a breastplate that goes an inch below my belly button, and when I sit down it cocks up higher, but i've slept in it no problem. However I definately could not ride a horse wearing it.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+mrredeef It can actually be dangerous if your breastplate is too long. You mention yours riding up a little as you sit down, imagine falling down instead, with force, to your knees and bending forward. It can actually drive the top edge of the breastplate right into your throat if it's too long.

[@hughmcdonald3039]

Thanks for another great vid Ian. Was your decision about which direction to overlap the fauld informed primarily by the silver altar at Pistoia? (which incidentally if you haven't found them, my photos of it can be found here: plus.google.com/photos/100790497411532788238/albums/5943072822025303825) The other example which comes to mind with the same style is on the choir stalls (chorgestühl) in Madgeburg cathedral (the same venue which houses the St Maurice effigy). This wood carving depiction dated to 1363 shows a central pointed fauld with the same overlap direction as in both the Pistoia altar and your harness. I've got photos from my visit there in 2013 though none posted online, please let me know if you'd like copies so I can dig them up.

[@KnyghtErrant]

+Hugh McDonald The direction of the overlap for the fauld was a topic of discussion that Jeff Wasson brought up when we were in the planning stages of this armor. It was mostly informed by the design of the faulds on the Pistoia example. It's one of the only examples where the fauld clearly overlaps in that direction, so we decided to give it a shot. I was unaware of the 1363 example in Madgeburg, if you don't mind I'd love to see the photos! Yes, I'm very familiar with your Pistoia album, I began drooling over them as soon as you posted them on the archive, they are invaluable! Thank you!

[@AwakenedSaxon]

5:34 TWO CHAINZ

[@apoccooking4364]

I've seen a few historical albeit fantasy films where the mail collar is worn over the breastplate. Is there historical evidence for this, or is it more likely something done for the sake if the actors whose armor may not have been made specifically for them? It kinda bugs me to see it because it just- it doesn't look right. But I could see if the breastplate was some form of incorrect size (maybe too long for the actor, even when the geometry of the piece is correct?) and having the mail collar under was just too uncomfortable for them to wear properly, that being an adequate solution, given the danger is fairly minimal.

[@KnyghtErrant]

It depends entirely on the specific configuration of armor being worn. By the early 15th century in England for example, the fashion seemed to shift to the mail collar being worn over the breastplate to accommodate the new great bascinet and possibly removal of the breastplate's stoprib from this point on. Here's an example of a knightly effigy in Gnosall dating to the first quarter of the 15th century where the collar is now above the breastplate - lichfieldlore.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/gnosall-effigy-2.jpg?w=584

[@jdzencelowcz]

My armor, well, if I could afford to make it (yes, I'd make it myself), I'd have 2: one where I'd go bronze crazy, scale & splint over leather, & one where I'd go mail crazy, flat riveted mail from head to foot under linen gambeson, leggings, & coif that would cover my whole head, there'd just be 2 eye holes, & slits for my nose, mouth, & ears; & of course mail gloves.

[@ChicagoDB]

jdzencelowcz mail under a gambeson??

[@dickdanger8735]

Where did you purchase your dublit

[@KnyghtErrant]

I made the doublet

[@dickdanger8735]

@@KnyghtErrant could you plz make a video going into more depth about the breastplate without the extra plates on the bottom