The Batman's Joker Problem | Video Essay

🎬 The Batman's Joker Problem! In this FIlmSpeak video essay we discuss the new Joker deleted scene from The Batman and why it speaks to a larger problem with the joker.
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Matt Reeves recently released the long awaited Joker deleted scene from The Batman where we see Barry Keoghan Joker in all his...glory? Well, not really. For as incredible of an actor as Barry Keoghan is (go watch Calm with Horses, Killing of the Sacred Deer), his Joker might be my least favorite and truthfully speaks to a larger problem I have with how the Joker's been treated by WB and DC since Heath Ledger's once in a lifetime portrayal in The Dark Knight. Most every iteration since The Dark Knight has been an attempt to recapture the magic of that performance, play into the "crazy," faux existentialism that's become grossly maligned with the character. The point of the Joker isn't his sanity, it's what he represents, what he has to say about Batman, Gotham, our culture. Somewhere along the way whether it was Jared Leto's awful Joker or Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, the true essence of the Joker got lost. Barry Keoghan's Joker is just the latest in a long line. Griffin (@griffschiller) discusses The Huge Problem with The Joker and why The Batman Joker deleted scene is bad. Enjoy!
#TheBatman #Joker #JokerDeletedScene #VideoEssay #Batman #TheJoker #DC #BatmanVideoEssay
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Batman ventures into Gotham City's underworld when a sadistic killer leaves behind a trail of cryptic clues. As the evidence begins to lead closer to home and the scale of the perpetrator's plans become clear, he must forge new relationships, unmask the culprit and bring justice to the abuse of power and corruption that has long plagued the metropolis. The Batman is written and directed by Matt Reeves and stars, Robert Pattinson; Zoë Kravitz; Paul Dano; Jeffrey Wright; John Turturro; Peter Sarsgaard; Andy Serkis; Colin Farrell; Barry Keoghan.
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[@FilmSpeak]

What did YOU think of The Batman's Joker Deleted Scene?? Are you all in on this take on The Joker? Comment below 🤡

[@magicmikeyymike2138]

It's so good but I like Joaquin Phoenix because they doing a mentality illness of Joker but the dark knight joker is cool but it's not perfect to be a joker...many variant of joker try to explore the joker different characters....do you read comics is yes you see the inspiration of joker from the batman if not I don't want to say but this your interpretation

[@interceptingfist5682]

The greatest villain of all time needs a break.

[@r.b.6714]

Absolutely love it. Great acting. I agree with the scene being cut from the film, it wouldn’t have meshed well, however I’m really digging this Joker. I get some people are burnt out, it is what it is I suppose.

[@viewaskew7741]

It was great, you can't have the Batman without the Joker eventually, he's integral to Batman and Gotham as a whole. He's the Darth Vader of Batman, the producers and director would be foolish not to include him eventually. The real question is why do so many people have a problem with the character? Maybe watch less Joker related media if your burnt out, idk or keep torturing yourself like fuck. Hes the most popular villian and polls don't lie. When people tell me they hate the Joker character, i honestly question whether their even a Batman fan

[@heisenberg3345]

My counter argument- Just to make its clear you are the allowed to have your own opinion But the with this video problem is not the joker is a over played character yes I agree it would be cool to final have a Batman who faces someone else but since Heath ledger Joker other actors and writers and actors should have the freedom to make their own unique Joker despite the fact the actor has played similar roles and if they want to draw inspiration from Heath Ledgers joker.Also that is weird when Film Speak said: Barry is to young but if you remember Heath lager was still kinda young when he played the joker. Another problem FilmSpeak doesn’t say is there is nothing alike between Heath Ledgers joker and Joaquin Phoenix’s joker because Joaquin Phoenix does violence out of emotion and Heath Ledgers joker is a smart strategic thinker witch makes Joaquins joker interesting and so great and with the addition seeing the story though his POV and Barry’s joker is scariest looking and it shows how you would act and look if you fell in acid

[@tomtate3203]

I’ve never disagreed more then the statement of “joquean was trying to hard” his joker was more about the illness and the uncomfortableness of it so I think he nailed it perfectly.

[@ananziii]

He did. It was definitely oscar worthy.

[@spawncampe]

Yeah, honestly my only criticism for Joaquin Phoneix's Joker is that he's so unlike the traditional character. Comics Joker and most interpretations are smart and planning, but comes out as crazy and chaotic, being an agent to chaos as Heath Ledge would say. Joaquin Phoenix is totally different, he's damaged by society and literally doesn't have a plan. He intended to commit suicide in the final act but ended up shooting the Murray and unintentionally caused a riot.

[@seanbhoycfc4834]

When a solo Joker film was announced in 2016 with the state of DC films at the time due to the impatience and greed of Warner Bros I was against it until Joaquin was revealed as the new Joker and then I knew it would be worth a watch. Joaquin is my favourite actor and the very best of his generation in my humble opinion because he is very dedicated to his craft. He cares more about the art of the project he's doing than the money. That's why the MCU weren't able to land him for Doctor Strange and other roles. A general DC film couldn't have landed him either. He's not a franchise guy. He said before Joker "They" as in this genre should do a smaller budget character piece on one of the villains. Sadly, Joker's stunning success wasn't enough to get the DC Black label green lit but fortunately Todd Phillips was able to create the vision Phoenix was talking about. A multi million dollar franchise name and character in a smaller budget art house character study. I completely agree. He played a mentally ill man living in a city and living a life where no matter how hard he tries he keeps getting pushed to the brink. We only see glimpses of the Joker he'll be throughout as Arthur doesn't completely embrace the freedom that persona gives him until the final act. I think everything about the film is a work of art while understanding why some wouldn't like it but the most agreed upon thing is Joaquin is phenomenal like in every role he plays. They may be very different potrayals but Heath and Joaquin will never be beaten in my eyes. Again, it's just my opinion. I think we have more terrific Joker performances to look forward to but I can't see the respective performances of Ledger and Joaquin ever being matched

[@MechaSandvich]

It’s a shame too since if you remove all his takes on Phoenix I’d agree with this video 100%. It really feels like he’s not fully looking into it.

[@boomshakalaka656]

He really played the character well

[@kimanirobinson790]

Keoghan's Joker never said anything about "society", or even himself directly. He was solely focused the Riddler, but more importantly, Batman. That's what I liked about it. He never attempts to make any statements about nihilism, anarchism, or any other cliché existential talking points. I got the feeling that the new Joker is in it purely for his own sick amusement. He's just a psychopath and a sadist with a wicked sense of humor. That's barebones Joker.

[@everforward5561]

I mean, that's usually all Joker is ever about. He talks about goal sometimes, depending on the writer, but it's always just a thin excuse for the fact that he just does things because he can.

[@adainjarrio]

That would be a great Joker.

[@Spaced92]

I'm kinda over villains making direct references to society being responsible for their actions and it being anything other than a terrible excuse. Bruh you're a supervillain, in the comics Joker just wants to fuck with Batman and rob banks. Penguin just wants respect and to rob banks, Two-face just has a duality obsession and wants to rob banks, Riddler just wants to outsmart Batman and rob banks, you get the picture their clear mental health problems can be tragic and sad, but it's never a good reason for what they do. I can deal with the latest Riddler because he's still a self absorbed egomaniac more interested in impressing people with his smarts, and something like Ledgers Joker was still mainly obsessed with one upping Batman.

[@dimitrikey3547]

@Kimani Robinson I couldn't agree more

[@plantainsame2049]

@@Spaced92 Is mental health for problems are the reason Face does it Harvey just wants to be your district Attorney big bad harv wants to rob banks

[@yukikanegawa7470]

The Lego joker is great. He's so fun and campy. He doesn't take anything seriously but he's still obsessed with Batman. A Lego Batman who suits him perfectly in how self aware but still serious he is. I don't know how to explain it well but Lego Batman and Joker are great and I'll stand by that. It's more than far from being the worst portrayal a.k.a Jared Leto. It's fun to watch as it's own thing. I'm glad it exists.

[@john_your_drug_dealer]

agreed

[@ABOYBUGS.]

Agreed

[@WalterWhite-pb7wz]

Agreed

[@BlueGuise9]

I'm with you on that!

[@rngnodal9316]

Agreed

[@freddyvalero6532]

Mark Hamill is still the greatest Joker actor of all time. The old timey transatlantic accent and his laugh. The BEST joker laugh of all time.

[@evanpena9721]

No it’s not

[@nemezio9495]

Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are the best duo!

[@amiable_monster]

@@nemezio9495 Were😔

[@coreywinter8716]

It's insane they use de-aging tech on mark hamill for skywalker and not the joker

[@Elutai]

@@coreywinter8716 because he doesnt act as the joker...? he voices it how are they gonna deage a cartoon. and even IF mark did visually act for the joker. they wouldnt need to deage him as joker is made to look ugly and horrific. so realistically the older the better

[@chuck_muckle]

We literally have like 5 minutes of Barry's joker and you're trying to say that there's not enough under the surface. Edit: this comment isn't praising the movie or the scene (even if I like both) it is a criticism of the video. The entire video is nonsensical and is based on nothing that even involves Keoghan's Joker.

[@vmar123]

😭😭

[@alabamii]

fr and it ain’t even in the movie

[@marti2gay423]

Ikr they got time to change stuff, this guy who made the vid is a joke

[@chuck_muckle]

@@marti2gay423 Yeah, it's easy to tell when someone is just riding a hype train for views.

[@roylle6346]

We literally have like 5 minutes of something they say is the joker and some dumb ppl expect us to look pass that atrocity for something under THAT surface 🤣🤣

[@joelholtzman609]

Strongly, strongly disagree about the critiques on Joaquins Joker. They made him uncanny, relatable, and layered in a way not done before, becoming an entity on itself outside the entire Batman universe, completely putting any other Jokers aside. Generally speaking if you wanna stay somewhat true to the comics there is very little you can do in terms of variety in terms of the Joker as a villain opposed to Batman as a protagonist. Thats why after Heaths version its been hit or miss when it comes to reinventing that wheel. The deleted scene indeed didnt add much to the Batman, but I liked his makeup quiet a lot. If they could utilize his appearance in the right way it can become a unique part of the narrative that has not been done before.

[@Rizwaan122]

Joker isn't meant to be relatable though, he's meant to be a sadist who just wants to destroy anything.

[@kingomkar6936]

@@Rizwaan122 didn't you heard video every writer am actor make their joker different

[@joelholtzman609]

@@Rizwaan122 Thats the nutshell of the Joker, but the ''fuse'' can be anything the writer wants it to be. Todd Phillips decided to make Joaquin Phoenix relatable as a Joker and did a great job with it.

[@vietnamd0820]

Also, there is at least one moment when Phoenix’s Joker is funny, like when he punches the punch clock

[@johnnymatteis3452]

It added more then people noticed. It solidified what Patton was portraying. He's tormented. The Joker played with him here. He mind fucked him and it was great.

[@blackwaterproduction289]

I agree with most of what you said, we have a joker fatigue at this point. However, Phoenix's joker is completely different and original, and he really was joker for about 15 minutes in that movie. But he was still completely different from Ledger's and everyone else, his was so original I would say!

[@johnnybravo5969]

Another Riddler? The motivation of characters is a bit same. We need Joker from the animated series. That character chemistry was on another level.

[@1FenFen1]

@@johnnybravo5969 I'd love a Joker who's basically Hamill's. make as dark as you want, but at least have him be a little silly :(

[@Scarshadow666]

Yeah, for most Batman fans, Joker fatigue is probably what a lot of people are going through. However, I would also argue that a lot of audiences are also going through superhero fatigue in general (enough so that series like The Boys are great because they do a lot of modern subversions of the superhero genre, similar to how Alan Moore did with the Watchman at a previous time when superhero fever was seemingly everywhere).

[@jaydovell5425]

exactly!

[@zxdith]

Ever since heath ledger. Apparently that’s the only joker allowed. Because every other joker since has been dissed for “trying to hard” or “copying ledger” like just stop tryna bring ledger into everything. There’s no copying going on here.

[@notoriousedits3277]

i don't think we can say that barry is trying to imitate anyone just from a 5 minute scene, we gotta see more, then judge it

[@komos3719]

Yeah imo it's kind of dumb to make assumptions out of such a molehill

[@notoriousedits3277]

@@komos3719 yeah

[@salvus608]

Yeah Just 5 MINUTES Is just enough. And all of you who agreed with this version already have an opinion.

[@LeSteeler]

@@salvus608 What? LMAOOO

[@cngotham4111]

And at the very least we already know he has a unique laugh which is something

[@orqg5000]

Oh what a terrible, closed-minded take on Phoenix's Joker you have! His Joker cannot be compared to that of the comics, it's a WHOLE different approach to the character, that's rather obvious

[@shalebrown1616]

and yet he complains that this joker is also somehow a copy to previous versions, that its not original enough lol. I feel like this guy is not even listening to his own takes

[@thecynicaloptimist1884]

"His Joker cannot be compared to that of the comics, it's a WHOLE different approach to the character, that's rather obvious" So it's not the Joker. Which it wasn't. It was another character entirely that was shoehorned into the Batman universe. Also, it's ok to disagree with someone without being an asshole. Don't be so fragile.

[@QuietFromMetalGearSolid]

What's the like-dislike ratio for this video?

[@orqg5000]

@@QuietFromMetalGearSolid 9.7K vs 13K

[@QuietFromMetalGearSolid]

@@orqg5000 😐

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

I wish Jared Leto had done the Joker more like his character in the movie The Little Things. A calm sadistic serial killer type, who will occasionally joke around. Kind of gives you the creeps with just how calm and soft spoken he is. Like he could snap at any minute but never does. Really added to the suspense.

[@athenajaxon2397]

yes! He was so gross and creepy in that

[@SuperBabyMario0C]

Lmao because he wasn’t ripped either haha, he had the fat suit pad during that movie 🤣

[@reinaldocaraballo4657]

I really hate this thing that the comic book movies have left on Jared Leto's career as an actor because he like this amazing award winning actor he's won every award there is to win he so f****** talented he's literally one of the greatest actors alive he could do anything and it's sad that that's kind of happened a little things is a perfect example of house that he actually is he's f****** amazing he's so creepy so evil so sadistic dark sociopathic in that movie yet he's funny you know and and there's like this charm about him and the ambiguity of what he says because of the way that he talks his consistent and you really don't know if he's pulling your leg or being honest because you know he's sick and he's totally capable of doing some sick s*** but you're not sure oh my god did he kill this in person or was that guy guilty oh my god I don't know maybe maybe I love that I just love that I really love how they did it because even now I'm not sure if he did it or didn't do it you know that's a great you know and is joker in the Snyder cup the after dark vision I thought it that Joker was great I know it was a short version but the way he talks carry himself the way he looks and the way he laughs I really I really thought it was overlooked I think people just kind of like all whatever but didn't look at it it wasn't like anybody else's version he did a great job but having his his own flavor do it and he said everything he got to do it for a couple minutes sometimes sometimes you people have to sit back far enough to to analyze just see the entire picture to take it and to observe every line every subtle gesture every look I've been movement so that you can understand the entire f****** thing and I think that Jared Leto has had this happen to him a lot in his career being overlooked by the critics and the public mainly due to being in the movies that aren't up to par with his talent granted he has been movies that are celebrated but he has also been in movies with the only thing that's good is him and it sucks when you're the only good thing in the movie because you're invisible winning that award and that sucks for someone like he like d your letter I really does All right I'm done forget it

[@greetswithjudgement4338]

Leto has done amazing things in his works. He’s made great movies far before Suicide Squad and the issue is people don’t know Leto before Suicide Squad and if they did, they knew him as a singer before actor. They knew him as a pervert or creep or a controversial human being. They simply just don’t like Leto so no matter what he does, they won’t give him any credit. But just like Keanu, Brendan Fraiser, Nicholas Cage, Colin Farrell and many more actors who were disrespected during their early careers, Leto is being disrespected the same way. I can name hundred of actors praised these days that were never praised before and I promise, Leto will get his redemption. As for now I don’t take anyone seriously who talks shit about Jared Leto but only seen two movies of his. Suicide Squad and Morbius. Their opinions mean nothing. Requiem for a Dream Mr nobody Lord of War Lonely Hearts Dallas Buyers Club Blade Runner 2049 Fight Club We crashed The little things Chapter 27 Zack Snuders Justice League All fucking great and no matter why he does no one will see or acknowledge it perhaps only when he dies. I am proud to have known his legacy when he began versus now. No one will ever know the talent this daring man holds.

[@K.C.C.L]

​@@reinaldocaraballo4657 he was also in a pop rock band. I think people know the guy is pretty complex😅

[@hatuletoh]

I watched the 1989 "Batman" the other day for the first time in years. Jack Nicholson was SO DAMN GREAT as the Joker because he was really fun, and funny. I'd totally forgotten how enjoyable a FUN Joker could be. It wouldn't work in every Batman film of course, but he was as perfect as Ledger for the film he was in.

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

I kinda agree that Barry’s Joker seems a bit too similar to Heath, but I don’t see how Phoenix’s portrayal is. I think Joaquin put a pretty unique spin on the character, especially since it showed more of his humanizing, sympathetic qualities. Also I’d say Keoghan’s dialogue isn’t much of a “we live in a society” thing, as it’s more focused on him and Batman’s relationship. I do hope we see more of the “fun” elements of The Joker with Barry.

[@DA11AZ]

How? How in the world does he seem similar? I swear ledger joker fan boys just hate any joker that is not him. If they don't take inspiration from Heath they are bad and if they do their copying. Like what the fuck do you want.

[@nanand.r]

that's probably why they cut the scene.. hopefully its a good sign that they're going to fix this new joker issue

[@deadaccountsadly4137]

@@nanand.r there’s nothing to fix so don’t be surprised when he’s the exact same💀

[@wardaddy6374]

Well there’s 3 versions of joker that were originally used in comics and now films. First is the goofy one, second is the brutal psychopath and third is the career criminal. Heath was one of the only ones used in film that showed the brutal psychopath, this new one seems to show the same version. And that’s perfectly fine. We’ve barely seen anything on him so I’m optimistic

[@zoekravitzshusband]

I agree

[@drewsaga101]

I don’t disagree with most of these points but we’re comparing a full film ( that probably had the best takes cherry picked from a bunch ) vs a 5 minute deleted clip and using that to criticize or praise Barry. I think it’s very early to crown or shit on this new take with such passion.

[@johnnynunez6771]

Agreed, while I do really love this interpretation, I personally disagree with the comment on overcompensating with his disfigurement so it's part of his character regardless. After analyzing the scene a few more times I can agree there wasn't much his Joker offered other than the random chuckles & Ledger inspired voice there wasn't much about his character & story. Also didn't like how he basically spoiled both Batman and Riddler's character development. I however did love his back and forth with the Bat himself, their dialogue feels so smooth. They bounce off one another really well especially with this version of Batman who is more straight to the point than we've seen any other interpretation. Still, this gives me hope to see him again even if it's only in this Silence of the Lambs style scene in the future. Who knows if they make him less grotesque or double down on it, it's only a deleted scene so they could make changes to his appearance should he return.

[@jdavidmoreiraify]

agreed. this just feels like a video to shock people tbh "new joker is bad" gets clicks I guess

[@davidw.2791]

@@jdavidmoreiraify Not to mention OP is using a bad shot with blown up colours as the thumbnail, just to draw more eyeballs.

[@luckychips2283]

I agree if anything this was like a demo of what a Joker in this universe could be, but definitely not what he would be.

[@Jonnymad1245]

@@jdavidmoreiraify he's not saying that new joker is shit for clicks he explains how Barry is a good actor and they need to let him be in control

[@saraautio5693]

Cameron Monaghan's performance as the Joker(s) is so underrated, it's my second favorite next to Heath Ledger. It might not have a deep message or have a lot to say about society but it's just so well done it doesn't rly have to. Cameron is such an incredible actor and it's rly impressive that he's able to pull off not one, but two performances. Jerome is just so much fun he's hard to not love while Jeremiah is genuinely menacing, without needing over the top makeup or shock factor.

[@jones3887]

Agreed.

[@salvus608]

Underrated means copy all the versions from the comics and movies??

[@saraautio5693]

@@salvus608 That's literally not what I said and it's the same character so things are obviously gonna cross over and be similar otherwise it would be a different character?

[@Yosemite_sam694]

The problem with “deep” messages is their aren’t even deep because the writers are hacks. Phoenix joker can be described as people mean and bad society bad mental illness is bad . It’s really not that deep. Especially since the best they can come up with for his personality traits is, of his laugh is a disease, of he was a clown as a profession , like wow . Fuck off

[@davidroddick91]

What I liked about the Gotham Joker was that Jerome was originally thought to be a victim, but the instant he gave that look, you knew that he was the Joker, before he even spoke, and that he was responsible for the tragedies that surrounded him.

[@user-cx1sp1xc7d]

yeah he did such a good job thru his mannerisms you didn't even have to know the whole context to realise that he was in some kind of way responsible for certain things. i really liked his portrayal i wish we could have seen him play the joker (with DC s approval and all yk)

[@user-wk3on9mt7f]

"Jack and Heath built their character" Jack and Heath also had a FULL MOVIE. Barry had a scene (technically two).

[@inyourwifesas1033]

Barry is Garbo besides I'm honestly tired of the joker Batman has other great villains not just joker joker joker

[@user-wk3on9mt7f]

@@inyourwifesas1033 I'm not saying he's perfect, or good (I'm on the fence personally, but I was on the fence with Robert and Paul before watching the movie). I just think it's a little disingenuous to compare less than 10 minutes, most of which was cut from the movie, against full movies where the Joker was the MAIN ATTRACTION - the Joker here is just a tease. Shit, even Jared's Joker was more prominent in Suicide Squad then Barry's here.

[@johandrytenias1725]

I'm actually sick of people comparing every new iteraction of the Joker with Ledger's, when they all have been very unique and have focused on different aspects of the character throughout the years. Leto's Joker focuses on the abussive boyfriend nature of the character since it is a Suicide Squad movie and Harley Quinn is the protagonist, so he's there to serve her as a character. In the Snyder Cut, even though it's the same performance, the character feels differente because this time he's interacting with Batman, that's all about the dependecy of one another. Phoenix's Joker deals with the mentally ill aspect, and now Keoghan's Joker is exploring the psycopathic/psychoanalysist nature of the character. Ledger's Joker was all about the chaos and anarchy and Nicholson's Joker was more about the theatricality. In won't comment on the tv versions because those had more time to develop various aspects, but in movies they all have brought something unique to the table, but that's hard to see when you keep using Ledger as a reference

[@demonte5305]

Agreed, I saw this video as him venting his frustrations of there not being a different villain featured in Batman movies so he’s taking it out on the other joker performances. “Same performances”??? What is the same in any way about Phoenix’s portrayal compared to what we saw of Koegen’s? I agree that more villains should be featured in the Batman movies besides joker, but I’ve at least been interested in joker portrayals besides Leto’s (anything outside of ZSJL). I feel like 90% of this video is directed towards Leto even though Filmspeaks is attempting to project those character flaws to the other portrayals. I would have to respectfully disagree with his view on this one when it comes to the portrayals themselves. Still a wonderful channel.

[@RecklessRusty]

My sentiments aswell. Describing this Joker as a psychopathic psychoanalyst is perfect.

[@TomE.2unes]

Well said

[@worldsworstartist]

"I'm sick of every new actor who takes on the role being compared to the most iconic portrayal in film history" okay don't watch new movies with the character, easy

[@BroughtCat]

Well said bro 👏 👌

[@lilsquirt6842]

Joaquin Innovated the idea of Joker thoroughly in every sense while fundamentally staying true to Jokers "structure" and it was shown in an extremely unique perspective. There's a reason he's the only other comic book character to have won an Oscar

[@johnnybeatmaker330]

This movie was overated, acting was solid but who really wanted to see the joker just be a normal crazy guy? Like really? My favorite chacter in DC was made into some loser psychopath with mommy issues.

[@coreywinter8716]

He didn't stray true to the structure at all. It was a completely different villian

[@lilsquirt6842]

@@coreywinter8716 A failed stand up comedian that took simply one bad day to break him, who has a multiple choice path and is a symbol of chaos? That’s not true to the character? Lol

[@lilsquirt6842]

@@coreywinter8716 It’s literally adapting the killing joke without the vat of chemicals and it even have an adaptation of the dark knight return’s Joker. Inspirations from the most known and loved 80a Joker comics

[@lilsquirt6842]

@@coreywinter8716 let me guess, you forgot the movie was an origin which means you’re only seeing this joker barely finding the identity and not being organized yet? Idk how that doesn’t make sense to ppl, it’s an origin not a movie of a established developed joker

[@ernest2641]

Arthur fleck got in the fridge because he found comfort in the white light and confines of it, as he described earlier in the movie that he felt better when he was locked up in the mental hospital. If you actually watch the movie and pay attention instead of using it as a vague and undefined point to back up your other point, you'd maybe get the movie a bit more.

[@SirIkeMedia]

The Joker looked like that in the deleted scene because he fell into a pool of acid.... I thought his performance was great. The scene sort of told too much though, so I'm glad it was cut. I like the straight-forward direction that're going with for the villains in The Batman. Penguin is just a thug, Catwoman is just a thief, Riddler is some insane loser, Joker is just a psychopath.

[@Jesse-ho5xz]

barry's joker has a congenital disease that disfigured his face into a permanent smile pretty much since birth, no pool of acid was involved, there's an interview with matt reeves where he states this

[@ElementBruv]

@@Jesse-ho5xz wanna explain the hair loss, marks all over the body, and messed up hands?

[@McNofriends]

A rough first year lol

[@fun13ucket]

@@ElementBruv Batman fucked him up? Seems pretty obvious

[@soullessstarfish2854]

@@fun13ucket Batman gave him chemical burns?

[@odysseusdadon1234]

There's always a guy who makes these type of videos to kill your hype. I really liked this joker.

[@freetime2freeminds]

He'll delete this video soon

[@simpelfrietje4865]

Fr

[@zeynaviegas5043]

i think its ok to see another take, even if i completely disagree with him

[@GamerconProductions]

Don't let this ruin Barry's Joker for you. Be hype regardless. This guy will probably be making a video in a few years once the sequels out saying how good Barry is, and you'll be here to tell him how wrong he was.

[@xaviorperez6096]

I respectfully have a completely different opinion than yours. As someone who's read hundreds on hundreds of comics with this character in them, it feels almost disrespectful to dumb Joker down to a mauled guy with a laugh. Every newer interpretation of the Joker has attempted to make him edgier/darker when in reality, that's just not him. The unsettling thing about the Joker isn't necessarily his looks, but more so his state of mind. The Joker is an unpredictable, cunning, comedic, self-absorbed, and carefree psychopath. I wish they would stop cheaping out by choosing the creepy look. I want directors to let an actor like Barry Keoghan to use their acting chops to display the true horror of the Joker- his mind.

[@jessefontainieohfwob]

I think the fridge moment in Joker is a way to symbolise suicide. Back in the day those fridges were only able to be opened from the outside, so getting inside one was literally deadly. I faintly remember the scene to be vague on whether it was real or not, but i guess thats not the point. It still symbolises Arthur's state of mind.

[@miklac90]

The way Tony Dalton played Lalo Salamanca in BCS would have been a really refreshing take on Joker. Always smiling, charming, and friendly, making him difficult to read. Throwing off people's guard with his demeanour not with just his clownish appearance. But cold, calculating, and void of any empathy or emotions underneath the facade.

[@enemystand2981]

Lalo Salamanca is one of the only late game antagonists iv truly enjoyed as much as early antagonists in just about anything

[@VMadnezzYT]

I personally LOVED Barry's Joker. He was manipulative and terrifying. His wording, calling Riddler's traps "baroque" (meaning medieval esque). The scene (to me) didn't seem edgy, it was disturbing. Joker wasn't portrayed as a crime lord. He was portrayed as a maniac-serial killer. The scarred hands, the disfigured face, and even his voice were so unique and fit the Batman's tone so well. I definitely hope to see more of Barry's Joker in the future

[@chocolatemilk679]

baroque wasnt medieval, it actually happened about a 100 years after medieval times ended. that statement more than likely had more to do with the actual definition of baroque which can be described by: “-Images are direct, obvious, and dramatic. -Tries to draw the viewer in to participate in the scene. -Depictions feel physically and psychologically real. Emotionally intense. -Extravagant settings and ornamentation. -Dramatic use of color. -Dramatic contrasts between light and dark, light and shadow. -As opposed to Renaissance art with its clearly defined planes, with each figure placed in isolation from each other, -Baroque art has continuous overlapping of figures and elements. -Common themes: grandiose visions, ecstasies and conversions, martyrdom and death, intense light, intense psychological moments.”

[@VMadnezzYT]

@@chocolatemilk679 huh, the more you know! Still a very interesting line, nonetheless

[@logankeilty4529]

Same

[@thedoldrums1981]

Definitely a Hannibal Lector type vibe

[@captainterra4581]

I personally LOVED Heath Ledgers Joker. He was manipulative and terrifying. His wording, talking about how he gets his scars (while he has knifes in their mouths as well). The scene (to me) didn't seem edgy, it was disturbing. Joker wasn't portrayed as a crime lord. He was portrayed as a maniac-serial killer. The dirty hands, the disfigured face, and even his voice were so unique and fit the Batman's tone so well. I really enjoyed Heath's Joker I changed a total 4 things in your argument. The guy in this video spends a most of the video saying how people are trying to live up to Heath's performance. Considering how little I have to change in your argument to go from a pro-Barry argument to and pro-Heath argument shows that this stigma still continues. You've essentially just proven his entire point that he explained in this video.

[@captainmaxel1223]

I wanna be honest. This is the first video of yours I've seen and the first 7 minutes talking about how every Joker since Jack and Heath has been the same feels more like a personal opinion rather than anything factual. Restating the same statement over and over I thought you'd have a previous video establishing this point or maybe it's in a bunch of tweets I don't care to look up. Either way, I couldn't feel more disconnected with this video simply because you're SAYING each one is boring, tryhard and the same, but what I'm SEEING are wildly different interpretations of the same character. I think I can somewhat understand the oversaturation of the Joker and his popularity, but that's about it.

[@T33JAY619]

Well said I agree

[@nf4866]

Yeah, I don't know where he's getting joaquin and the new joker are somehow copying heath. I guess the newest one has a vaguely similar voice, but Joaquin was a totally different interpretation than I've ever seen of the character. Heath did a great job at being a quintessential comic book based action movie villain, with a little social commentary thrown in. Joaquin was a very grounded depiction of what it takes to break someone who might never have been dangerous. The new one looks like more of a thriller style villain. More interested in trying to undermine Batman's moral foundation... from the very little we have to go on.

[@Vinny_Great]

COMPLETELY AGREE! My dude

[@dogmower]

fr he keeps repeating himself and reusing words, it doesn't feel like a video essay tbh

[@deliberation6022]

He seems to be in the same group of people who really cant make up their minds. People want something new and they get 3 wildly different jokers, Pheonix's and Leto's SS and Snyder film Joker. Pheonix's was received a lot better than Letos but it still had mixed review...because it wasn't 'the Joker.' People instantly started comparing it to Heaths and making claims about what the joker should be and what it isn't. Ok well then how about this new 2022 Joker, seems different but not to the extreme as Leto's or maybe even pheonixs...and yet people complain its too much of a copy of Heaths😐 even though we literally have only seen a 5 minutes deleted scene and barely anything from the ending. I dont even see it as a copy of heaths personally.

[@coreycasciano3255]

Barry is gonna be a great Joker, he is an underrated actor and I feel definitely has the acting chops, also people apparently hate his laugh but tbh I actually liked it 🤷‍♂️

[@BlueGuise9]

Me too! Far better than Leto's Blackadder laugh!

[@Poket_gmr]

I disagree, respectfully of course. I’ve only seen him in a few films and although he’s not a bad actor by any means I don’t see him as a good Joker and to be honest that’s not even his fault. That’s going to be majorly in part to the idea people and makeup behind the scenes. I’m hoping I’m wrong because a joker that just does things because is great but the backstory so far is weak in his motivations for causing trouble. The look for sure is as bad as Leto’s which was atrocious (again, not the actors fault) so here’s hoping they change some things and especially the makeup/costume. I wouldn’t mind him staying behind bars the whole time honestly so we don’t have to witness a bad Joker moment outside of this scene.

[@BlueGuise9]

@@Poket_gmr I know what you mean. The way those films were written stagnate quite a bit, and so the characters don't work as well as they should.

[@Poket_gmr]

@@BlueGuise9 Absolutely! I will do my best to remain hopeful though because so far I've liked almost everything else about this franchise from the one movie. Cheers!!!

[@K0KARN]

It’s hard comparing a character that gets a butt load of screen time against Keegan’s who had like 2 minutes, just wait and see and then we can compare

[@martinbabich1920]

You say that one of the problems with Barry Keoghan's Joker was that he was typecast, but Jack Nicholson was also typecast. He came from The shining where he played a crazy character

[@tripleaaakers9071]

I loved Barry’s interpretation, him almost romanticizing their anniversary, only him knowing what Batman truly feels about the killings, and how he’s messed up after falling in acid burning his skin is all very new and comic accurate. While I am tired of seeing the joker Barry’s looks very interesting and new.

[@timbeckley9972]

Matt reeves has said in interviews that this version of joker didn't fall into acid, he was born that heavily scared,

[@mimah1015]

You took the words right out of my mouth.👍👍

[@grimtam1859]

It kinda of reminded me the joker that ripped his own faced off in the comics

[@JLoStu42]

Couldn't agree more

[@JarrenHunt]

@@timbeckley9972 That could change at any point still if it so serves the story.

[@Emerald3ME]

I always thought they should aim more for Mark Hamil's Joker. Like the Arkham games give an almost perfect template for a comic accurate joker. Granted casting for the joker has always been extremely difficult.

[@markbasilejr9808]

considering the comics almost 100 year history there is clearly no single comic accurate represetation and given the film and shows influence on the comics any adaptation will eventually be comic accurate.

[@Beatlelover21]

I think everyone’s ignoring the best anime to joker which is Zach Galifianakis in the Lego Batman movie I feel like that was such a fun take and it was very refreshing

[@christianalexander579]

Mark hamil is done playing joker

[@redisthecoolestcolour]

I personally, didn't love Heath's performance, I found it a bit much, but the character? Wow... I was blown away by how smart he was, how much he had calculated and understood who he was manipulating and how easily he lied to cover that knowledge up. How easily he slipped under the skin of both Bruce and Batman. My jaw was on the ground as you watched his plot unfold, it was so damn clever and I didn't feel dumb for missing things.

[@jacksondavies3595]

Wow, I'm suprised that this comment hasn't been hated on.

[@pioneernut7487]

Ledgers joker is joker. I dont like phoenixs joker at all

[@SwellStuff483]

Every point you made is exactly why I thought Leto’s scene in ZSJL was so great. He wasn’t just trying to be in-your-face crazy like in Suicide Squad. Instead he was actually taunting Batman, genuinely getting under his skin and calling him out on his bullshit. Its honestly felt like such a breath of fresh air compared to every other Batman-Joker interaction because it something different from “We live in an society” (which is ironic since he actually says that line lol).

[@willcooper8028]

I thought this new version felt extremely fresh. Yes, I picked up on the Ledger influence, but it still didn’t feel anything like Ledger. He felt young and modernized without becoming ridiculous like Leto. Granted, it is cartoonish, but it’s honestly far less cartoonish than Dano’s Riddler. To be honest, I simply don’t see this comparison you keep making. This version felt so incredibly different from what came before it that I almost felt it was too much. Do you really look at Barry and think, “well that just feels like Ledger?” If you do feel that way, maybe you should provide more evidence, because I frankly don’t see it at all.

[@quinncasey317]

I agree completely with you. He says over and over that he his essentially copying Ledger but he provides no evidence

[@Angel-Otk]

For most people scars = Ledger I guess💀

[@gregoryzaharas2435]

You're totally right. Barry's portrayal feels unique but still is half baked. The Joker persona is still forming in these scenes. This and the fact that he and Batman have a kind of an intimate relationship will lead to a great showdown.

[@JoshuaGraham8383]

@@quinncasey317 Some manerisms and voice tone, but other than that he's pretty unique in his own ways

[@gabebartlett9680]

Also on the makeup point, I think he is missing what the point of it is. Barry’s Joker has lived with a disease since he was born where he can’t stop smiling so he’s been ridiculed and looked down upon since he was young. This forms him into a different kind of Joker imo and it’s definitely different from others. I don’t know if he’s had acid burns or not since he does have other scars around his head and also the green hair. But I think he’s just looking at Barry’s Joker on a surface level and not diving deeper into it

[@jamestaylor3715]

This video may as well have been called “why every joker is shite unless it’s Heath ledger” give Barry a break you’ve had barley 5 minutes of his interpretation.

[@KD-yb4xu]

Tried to hard to be like Heath

[@sunnex474]

@@KD-yb4xu and that’s bad? It worked

[@KD-yb4xu]

@@sunnex474 Something more original would've been more refreshing. Thats why Heath was so good because it was NOTHING like any joker before him. This sounds like a cheap imitation. Hope I'm wrong

[@BadMoody420]

@@KD-yb4xu Or maybe Heath’s Joker was a perfect portrayal of the character? And Barry’s take will take inspiration from that but have him focus more on causing chaos for the sake of Batman instead of the calculated anarchy to corrupt Gotham like Heath’s Joker.

[@noa941]

@@KD-yb4xu get off his dick jesus… if the actor takes inspiration off of heath hes a copy. if they act like their own joker then hes not as good as heath. make up yall minds

[@hamletfisherman5740]

Monaghan’s joker was amazing for sure, very unique and mesmerizing. His smile was spot on, creepy and rigid, like a mask.

[@user-cx1sp1xc7d]

Right, he did such a good job thru his gestures and even hsi physical appearence. I really wish he got more attention and the credit he deserves.

[@Yo-pz1em]

The deleted scene has a silence of the lambs vibe…like how the rest of the movie had se7en and the saw vibes. I truly believed Joaquin’s acting was excellent. It showed early signs of mental illness via trauma. Now that he is without his meds plus all his added trauma…and his liberated new life…he could become something incredibly terrifying. That could easily fit into the Batman…but looking at the deled scene… it now can’t be done.

[@thatjoshwright5577]

I think this scene felt much more natural than the scene in the theatrical release. I really like how this Joker is essentially a master manipulator. He’s very analytical, and he can manipulate Batman easily. I agree that Joker is being forced into way too much media, but I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t love Barry’s performance here. It made perfect sense to me that Bruce would go to another serial killer to profile riddler, and the shift of the power dynamic in this scene built so much tension. Joker felt like a threat behind 2 inches of protective glass and I love that idea. Matt reeves’ vision for these characters are just so compelling, and I can’t wait to see what comes next for these characters.

[@kingcrustytut7544]

agreed, i liked his portrayal. This video is interesting, but i dont agree with his entire take.

[@thatjoshwright5577]

@@kingcrustytut7544 I do agree that they need to stop the joker train and give other characters a chance on the silver screen though.

[@eren-yv6pn]

@@thatjoshwright5577 true, but joker could always remain a looming figure in the background tho, cause he is too much of a fan favourite villan for batman

[@maximeteppe7627]

I think there are interesting elements in both scenes, but both scenes really dragged and overstayed their welcome. The main issue being that the makeup is way too heavy and disgusting, as result you can't show him - and the result is that you end up with very limited options for shots to include. the dialogue is on the nose and could have been trimmed down as well. What I liked in the post edit scene that inexplicably was out before the credits was how much joker understood riddler's deal and vibed with him. similarly in the deleted scene, he quickly points out that it's a very personal quest (which I find at the same time smart and cowardly, given how tied together incel types and neonazi terrorists are IRL, and how easy it is to draw parallels between those and The batman's riddler)

[@starhunter9085]

*I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@AdamAdam-md4mi]

This guy seems to just enjoy being a contrarian. Love a lot of his points, but idk if he even actually believes his own takes anymore tbh

[@ojdidit9144]

Kinda like hitop films

[@flamingdoge6242]

Yeah, it kinda seems that way to me. Like, no hate on the guy himself (if he’s reading this), but I find it weird how he unironically thinks Black Widow is one of the best MCU movies of all time, and that NWH is a “satisfying mess”

[@AdamAdam-md4mi]

@@flamingdoge6242 Yeah. I genuinely love some of his videos. Like Safin as a great Bond villain. I even myself have fairly controversial opinions. I enjoy The Dark Knight Rises over The Dark Knight. I think Toy Story 2 is better than the others. I vastly prefer Mads Mickelson’s performance of Hannibal over Hopkins, but sometimes it just feels like he is intentionally trying to be oppositional. Still a fan though!

[@FF-ch9nr]

he even contradicts himself occasionally in this video, he wants a unique new twist on joker, but when jokers like joaquin's version tries something new and focuses more on mental health instead of being this cunning anarchist, he says "ohhh no thats not what joker is supposed to be about... hes supposed to have these same qualities that are similar to the comics like ledger , hamill, nicholson...and theyre all supposed to have fun blah blah" lol like dude do you want a new take on joker or not?

[@brendanl1108]

Yeah agreed. It's like some of the takes are simply to be the devil's advocate or get people upset.

[@RoadtoNowhere73]

I liked this joker very much. He perceived accurately many key aspects of the riddler from the case file very quickly, and then applied these to Batman’s disposition and pushed his buttons like only joker can. Great!

[@GlennDavey]

14:20 aww I love hearing people down the line still talking about Heath like this. Grew up with him on telly and I still just can't get over his loss after he made his masterpiece.

[@evandoorlay6762]

I do see your point, although I gotta disagree with you I thought Joaquins joker was a very different take on the character!

[@loraleivinyard2843]

Honestly there’s no comparison to either or . he didn’t try to be heath ledger at all really. just a broken man roped into insanity but calmly accepting that it’s where he is now and embracing it. while Jared’s and Barry are trying too hard to be well “ooo I’m just crazy ooooo I like murder and doing these quirky crazy people things” but not even delving into a character besides that just a crazy crack addict

[@thenorthfox2609]

This

[@NoxL0w]

@@loraleivinyard2843 The First time i saw Barry's joker, I thought that this one was gonna be more whimsy like the arkham games' Joker or at least closer. But the makeup might be too much. It seems like Barry's Joker likes to play with batman. But it was 5 min. I hope the next film the joker stays in the shadows, like a puppet master pulling the strings.

[@wemustdissent]

Yeah same I dont get the comparison draw between Joaquin and Ledgers Joker, they are totally different.

[@tjpowell234]

Trash doesn't equal different. Boring movie trash interpretation... that's facts. Nothing like the joker didn't look like him either. I'd take Leto over that dumpster fire

[@141jahh]

Joaquin’s version of the Joker wasn’t meaning to say “He wants to be heard”. It has a very different take to the whole “we live in a society”.

[@thetallgrass]

Nope

[@Aphorim]

nah, literally that film could've been titled anything else, no need to even put the Joker there. Hell, a clockwork orange, already did that. And it I agree, Heath's Joker was so good it's kinda swallowed the creativity of what the Joker can be. The comic book Joker by Scott Snyder's run on Batman is a perfect example.

[@paveantelic7876]

like what for example?

[@xootedjay]

i feel like the majority of people don’t like something just because someone else said they don’t like it and some how made sense describing why they don’t like it. i loved this joker and got chills seeing him on screen again. same way how i loved the flash movie. people just be ungrateful..

[@cloudbyx9970]

i think the guy making this video is mad that it's not Heath. Barry only had 2 minutes screentime like give him a chance goddammit

[@relicojustice2623]

Agreed with most said here, except pretty much everything to do with Joquean’s version. His version was the furthest thing from copying what came before, to the point where he was barely even “The Joker”. Say what you like about the interpretation, but he was not rehashing any previous version.

[@deion9195]

Totally agree with you

[@DaDinkler]

Yeah he was copying Taxi Driver instead lmfao

[@DaDinkler]

@Javier Mendoza The movie is very clearly inspired by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy to the point where I almost want to say its an homage. I wasn't saying the characters are EXACTLY the same but it's clear what they were trying to do.

[@DonkeyBoyVids]

@@DaDinkler it's definitely an homage and tbh I wish more movies would homage classic or older Hollywood genres and films. It was a very enjoyable watch as a fan of the Batman characters and Scorcese's filmmaking.

[@DaDinkler]

@@DonkeyBoyVids Really as a fan of the Batman characters? It has almost nothing to do with Batman it was like an homage to those movies but with a crappy Gotham paint job over it.

[@dagent47]

"If Joker was written well, it could say something interesting things about mental health and the institutions that don't help" .....was I watching a different copy of Joker or something?!

[@marsh_exists5252]

Fax dude. Joker was one of my favorite movies of all time and when he started saying the points that he did, I was getting pissed lol

[@Komraidean]

It was a ok film

[@jessicapinkman-hd4bw]

warner bros ceo: let's force in the joker random employee: why not any other villains? warner bros ceo: there are other villains?

[@loserliam2362]

I think that his prosthetics actually get in the way of Barrys acting

[@masamune2984]

Man, I don’t think I’ve disagreed with so many points in a single video in quite awhile. Then again, I should have known. Twitter and terrible journalists have taught me that anything that starts with “We need to talk about...” is going to be “really, really...bad.”

[@paulwoodford1984]

Never take anything this guy says seriously. He’s f ing clueless. hope his channel gets deleted

[@2kolbe010]

How can you say barry is a “bad joker” based off 5 minutes of screen time(maybe longer)?

[@sirjordancarter]

How can thousands of people say it's good?

[@sirjordancarter]

Go watch the "im tha joker baby" video and tell me if it's good acting or not. Do you need 2 more hours to decide?

[@Twisteditup]

maybe cuz it was a horrible 5 minutes? lol

[@darthmortem585]

@@sirjordancarter Joker Baby is literally the best interpretation of the character and if you disagree you aren't really a gigachad

[@PuunPuunpp]

His opinions on Joker really earned him the clown badge ngl.

[@jakegetsreel4024]

I really agree with what you said about the jokers dark sense of humor. That’s what I liked about Nicholsons Joker. He only did stuff because he thought funny.

[@sharkbiteshitposts5506]

I’m just jokered out dude… there’s been so many jokers and there’s so many villains who need the on screen representation. LIKE PROFESSOR PYG WOULD BE SO GOOD IN THIS UNIVERSE.

[@FilmSpeak]

Hahahaha Professor Pyg would SLAP

[@termlesstooth]

or mad hatter!

[@sharkbiteshitposts5506]

@Paraone Ngatai Fr.

[@sharkbiteshitposts5506]

@@termlesstooth TRUE

[@johnnymanning2952]

dudeee the perfect crime and mystery hell yeah

[@farewellnico7080]

I personally really liked the Joker's role in this film, specially in the deleted scene, It gives you a glimpse of how much respect Batman has for him asking for his opinion, like he aknowledges the talent behind his enemy, also loved how much the Joker can read right through Batman's mind, like he knows him better than him. To me it was pretty cool

[@Ghost_-nz5dy]

I wouldn’t say respect more like he knows that hes faced worst than the Riddler so he sees the joker as a valuable asset but respecting him yeah there’s no way lol

[@farewellnico7080]

@@Ghost_-nz5dy I mean he respects his abilities, of course he doesnt agree with him

[@darkknightx0992]

@@Ghost_-nz5dy he respects his intellect, not what he chooses to do with it.

[@KipplingCroft]

I think Mark Hamill is one of the great Jokers. The reason Joker is perhaps one of the best villains ever is that he is smart, calculating, and evil, yet with a moral code (warped and ever-changing as it may be). Joker presents himself as an agent of chaos and mayhem but really the man is never without a plan. The only difference between him and say someone like Lex or the Riddler is that he is more than willing to throw a monkeyrench into his own plans to serve him in some other way i.e. kill Batman, spite a rivel cover his escape. Hamill, Ledger, and Nicholson all portrayed smart, conning, and flamboyant Jokers whose insane actions and behavior all served a purpose. They were not crazy for the sake of being crazy.

[@FreeHugzUwU]

I personally also am getting "Joker Burnout" as a kid I loved Batman so much he has SO many cool villain's to face off against. Off the top of my head easy there is: Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Manbat, and Killermoth. I would love to see these characters on the big screen. I find Joker (2019) to be a genuine masterpiece and the memes it spawn are fantastic I think Phoenix did an excellent job because the movie was trying to be it's own thing and I respect it for that but I completely see the criticism toward it.

[@the.realesttttttt]

Phoenix did an amazing job at Joker and did not “try too hard”. On top of that, you said that maybe it was the writing that let him down. No. This movie was amazing and there is no way you can convince me other wise.

[@goc43agp]

Literally one of the most unimpressive and uninspired movies I’ve seen, so poorly written and so disappointed that “woke” culture keeps hyping it without real knowledge of film making

[@dave-ed2vd]

@@goc43agp The irony that you are talking about people not knowing anything about film making, while you yourself clearly don’t understand what was unique about The Joker and what made it a great film 😂 There’s a reason Phoenix won the Oscar and why it was nominated for best picture and a bunch of other categories. But you probably think you know better than actual film makers and the academy lol.

[@goc43agp]

@@dave-ed2vd yeah it was nominated for the same reason black panther was nominated and if we’re gonna talk about the academy as a reference let me remind you that rami also won for his fairytale portrayal of the shitty movie bohemian rhapsody and also Coda and green book are Oscar winning films, there’s a reason the Oscars are about celebrities and drama and hold no prestige in comparison to other film awards festivals, Joaquin is a great actor, but that wasn’t even top ten Joaquin Phoenix performance

[@goc43agp]

@Javier Mendoza I don’t call out “woke culture” just for trying to hate on it, what I mean is not because it’s fanbase say it’s good or profound it actually is

[@dave-ed2vd]

@@goc43agp Ok this all makes sense now. You just have shit taste 😂🤷🏼‍♂️

[@ThomasWilliamson]

As much as I love Heath's joker, I love Joaquin's just as much... if not more. I feel his portrayal was the most unique version of The Joker we have ever seen, to the point where it's almost too different. But that is okay because for me the the film and Joaquin's performance are truly amazing and can be appreciated without being connected to Batman's continuity. Haven't seen enough of Barry Keoghan's portrayal yet to give an impression, but generally I'm hopefully that he will bring something new. I hate to do it but I had to hit the dislike button!

[@littledudefromacrossthestr5755]

That movie was boring af

[@VinsHourOne]

Heath is the 🐐

[@seanchurch694]

Imo when it comes to which joker was better between Heath and Joaquin’s iterations of the character depends on what you like about the Joker in general. The Dark Knight is a story about Batman and Joker, where as Joker is a story about exclusively the Joker and is also told from his pov. Both are great tho.

[@maineman5757]

We live in a society.

[@unknownvoid2321]

@@littledudefromacrossthestr5755 when people say this I feel like you only watch movies only for fight scenes and even if they are action movies you don’t even pay attention

[@redbones6046]

"This is the problem with casting a young actor who's enamored with Heath Ledger's joker" Koeghen didn't even audition for the joker though, he auditioned for the riddler...

[@kahopukehau]

This makes me miss Heath Ledger even more ☹

[@Flamechucks76]

How one can make a 5 minute video on a scene that's supposed to be reflective of a Clarice and Hannibal conversation is amazing to me. The fact that we haven't even seen what this dude can do without such a focused direction makes me feel like you just want to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. There's also the issue of a try hard performance. Like.....what the fuck does that even mean? What limits are we putting to determine what a try hard performance even is? Are we saying that Willem Dafoe's performance as Goblin is try hard? Joaquin's Joker isn't even supposed to be giving off that type of vibe so I feel like the issue is that you can't disassociate between what Heath has been able to do, and in your mind no one can pull it off better so you feel like the character is stuck in a perpetual state of never being able to be one upped and thus you judge all interpretations back to the basis of what you feel this character should be. Key point being, this is what you feel the character should be, because much of the praise in this video given to that performance shows me that you can't view other sides of it because you are so enamored with it, and that's fine. But to shit on a 5 minute clip on what is ultimately a scene supposed to reflect a Silence of the Lambs type of scenario shows me that you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to the aspect of interpretation. You're gathering all the wrong info and can't supplement the idea that these different takes fit the worlds that have been built around them. I think I feel like you're inability to view the Joker as anything other than what Heath Ledger did is what's making you not like the different takes on the character since then. No two Joker's are alike in this regards, and the most common similarity is what, how evil they are? How maniacal they are? Are we even talking about the same character here or is the issue that you couldn't get the time to shit on a take prior to watching it because it was thrust upon you with no prior knowledge? We knew who was playing Joker before TDK and Joker and the internet as well as many fans had much to say before the performance was even watched. Here we have a situation where the character comes completely out of left field so people who are more inclined to shit on how it's going to be played have no room to judge as the character interpretation is out there now. You said a lot about this being a WB problem but to me it came off like the issue is entirely of your own doing. And it's funny because the gush you put on the Ledger performance is exactly why studios feel inclined to chase after the same high as before. You're literally part of the issue here without realizing during your entire diatribe.

[@epiclad93]

How one can make two whole damn paragraphs on a 20 minute KZbin video is amazing to me.

[@iamvoicelessmusic]

Congrats on ticking everyone off regarding Joaquin's iteration of Joker, pal. I agree with everyone else in that Joker was VERY well-written, and was absolutely a perfect film to open discussion on society's treatment of mental health patients.

[@iamvoicelessmusic]

​@Mr. M A comic accurate Joker, no. But a bad Joker in general? I'd disagree. I think the biggest thing that differentiated Arthur from other Jokers was that he wasn't a psychopath. He had empathy toward those he cared about, and only attacked those who had wrong him. This isn't to justify his actions, but it was a stark contrast to the other Jokers who would kill people on a whim. I personally loved and appreciated this version of Joker, and love the idea of his laugh being a psychological disorder. That being said, I can see why some people don't like him. I guess it would be similar to a Batman who was willing to kill, which obviously would be a controversial take on the character.

[@akjackson009]

Joker was boring as hell.

[@idrinkmilk282]

@@akjackson009 tell that to the top 250 films of all time list its firmly planted in

[@littledudefromacrossthestr5755]

@@akjackson009 ikr

[@akjackson009]

That list didn’t consider what is boring to me and that is clearly the movie Joker.

[@jamlym4974]

Heaths Joker: "That wasn't exactly what I had in mind when I said I wanted to inspire people."

[@Gray-weeb]

I plan on writing a story called "Batman: Resolutions", the main villain of the story will be Joker wreaking havoc on Gotham city once again. I am a huge fan of the Joker, and seeing this video I can agree and I am glad that you told me how Heath did the Joker: Heath created the Joker with no source. For me, that's how I'm going to do the Joker in my story, I'll make a backstory, what he represents, and what he intends when wreaking havoc on Gotham. Thank you for helping me figure out how to make a Joker, I'll still draw inspiration from "The Dark Knight" but I will follow the principles that I create for the character.

[@Nichrysalis]

Agreed that it has been becoming a performance pissing contest, HOWEVER, I think that point becomes moot when we've had so many amazing performances as a result of that. If anything, the real Joker criticism is that it prevents Batman movies from branching out to other villains and themes. I liked the deleted scene because it was a good characterization of a developing joker, but it definitely doesn't help progress the movie if that scene was not cut. I don't think your criticisms hold any weight unless we see an absolutely terrible performance in the future. Which in all likelihood, seems pretty improbable given the current circumstances.

[@noahedwards3090]

Agreed. It’s not about how the joker is played, but the fact that he’s just simply overused. I do believe that the Joker doesn’t NEED to be Heath Ledger inspired, however I don’t think that Phoenix’s Joker is too close to Ledgers. Also of course the joker in The Batman is going to be dark and closer to Ledger that’s the tone of the movie. If the Joker was closer to Jack Nicholsons Joker it wouldn’t fit in the movie. Again the main issue is how the Joker is played it’s his overuse.

[@KarimDavisFilms]

I cannot really say that I agree with you on most of your points but please note that I think you have created an amazing video and you have my upmost respect! Keep up the good work my friend!

[@mastereppsreturns6586]

I firmly believe you haven't watched Joker (2019) There is simply no way one could watch that and think it's similar to Heath Ledger.

[@bryantbarreracarmona7228]

You cant throw around "edgelord" and "tryhard" as a justification for a moment in film being bad. Of course all jokers are the same to an extent (they are all literally the same character). I get that there are different interpretations, however there is still some similarities all jokers are bound to share. You also miss the context of your criticism almost completely: The Joker shown in The Batman is a young version of the character who has not blossomed into Pattinson's most important villain. Your take on the copying Ledger's makeup is down right just silly--its makeup and its bound to get messy. I understand that it can be tiring to see the same character brought on every film, however the Joker is without a doubt an essential addition to a Batman lore. The director wants to plant seeds into his new world of villains, that is why the Penguin is in the film--to plant a seed for a future film. You shift the blame over to Warner Bros. But they have been loose with the direction of the film and leaving it up to Matt Reeves. This film was not like a marvel movie with specific cameos and crossovers planned, this seems to be all Reeves.

[@smashcutproductions8340]

I couldn't agree more

[@eren-yv6pn]

i couldn't have said it better myself dude, good job

[@no1ram]

frrr this whole vid is just comparing one joker to the rest acting like there can only be one good perspective of the character

[@cwizard]

good take

[@dsbeats5657]

Yeah honestly it just seems like he had a vendetta against this new joker if it wasn’t Heath ledger you know and I’d love to see different takes and adoration‘s of the characters and just seeing what directors and actors do with a character because honestly my favorite take of the character is probably Joaquin phoenix and he’s not even really the joker because he’s just more of a mentally ill man that’s on the breaking point

[@rowanjoy419]

I never understand why people like the joker, I mean the original. He is not that deep. He is smart and calculating. I think people were in love with the idea of him, (comes of as crazy but he has planned everything).

[@Urmum-zk5de]

The explosion was improvised it was meant to blow up straight away but didn’t just showing how good heath ledger was as joker

[@jokesonyou5629]

I couldn't disagree with you more I think we're getting ready to get one of the best interpretations of the joker we ever had

[@brianschehl8534]

I'm with you here. Can't wait to see what he can do with more time.

[@GenericInternetter]

Joaquim Phoenix's Joker was truly amazing. It was the one that felt most human and relatable. It really put a different spin on the character, the only version worth watching since Ledger's.

[@shr00mzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

I thought his Joker was cringy

[@christianalexander579]

That was not the joker

[@RandomizationShow]

It was an awesome movie but, yeah, that was not anything even close to the Joker

[@danzigvssartre]

That movie was edge lord garbage.

[@ThePopbanks007]

@@danzigvssartre FINALLY, someone with taste. That movie was TRASH.

[@TheBermudaMan]

Honestly, I think raising Heath Ledger's performance on a golden pedestal is doing more harm than good. Videos like this one aren't helping, taking down almost every other actor who's portrayed the character while continuing to praise Ledger's Joker as an invincible demigod just because he...well, died. Leave these guys alone. They're doing just fine.

[@ChrisTrikollos]

Guys it's a deleted scene. The director probalby knows that it can get better so let's just wait till an actual release.

[@cloudbyx9970]

That's what im sayin it's deleted for a reason

[@ChrisTrikollos]

@@cloudbyx9970 I know man. You thankfully understand. Most people sadly don't understand and then judge right away 😔

[@seanbhoycfc4834]

The funny thing for me is: I've always wanted a scene like this between Batman and the Joker. There were rumours that Nolan would have utilised Heath's Joker in a silence of the Lambs way like this in Rises. If not for tragedy we could have potentially seen Bale's Batman go to the man who pushed him and Gotham to the absolute limit. Since Ledger's Joker was all about anarchy, upsetting the established order and mocking the rules that make people feel safe and in control so wouldn't have agreed with Bane ruling the City through fear and false hope. Obviously, there's nothing to suggest this was guaranteed had Ledger lived but would have loved to have seen it. But getting this as a deleted scene when the newest Batman and Joker's history together is only spoken of is peculiar. I think this scene could have been an absolute masterstroke if it was used after certain events. As a deleted scene though, it only shows Barry has a lot of potential as the Joker and we see what Reeves was talking about when he said his Joker was inspired by the Elephant man. Even though I wanted the spotlight firmly planted on the Riddler and I also backed Dano for a long time to help reinvent the character which I feel he did wonderfully. I don't understand this being a deleted scene. What was the point of having him shrouded in darkness in the final cut then? I don't hate it at all I just feel it could have been so much more than a deleted scene. Makes me think of being kind of happy when Todd Phillips announced no deleted scenes for Joker's home release. Sometimes these scenes create too many questions. I still loved the film and if Reeves sticks to his guns by having the Joker play no real part in a sequel then maybe we'll look back on this a bit differently as though he's the Joker and Batman passes through Arkham a lot so it could just simply mean it's only natural he and the Dark Knight would interact at times even if he's not the main villain. I just find it confusing at the moment though

[@JC-jt3ug]

I was thinking a batman silence of the lambs type film would be amazing

[@adamsucy6452]

When Reeves talked about his influences for the Joker, I was so excited. The idea of bringing some sense of sadness to the characters disfigurement is something new, and paired with the gleeful way he talked to Riddler in the actual movie I was excited for more. Shame that the deleted scene kicked in the opposite direction. Great comment, really neat read.

[@gladiator_games]

Agree

[@no1ram]

damn that’s an essay

[@starhunter9085]

*I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@honeycombc]

Sometimes a character is defined by the actor who plays it. Heath Ledger defined the Joker… in The Dark Knight. He fits into the Gotham that film portrays. He runs alongside the powerful corporations Nolan typically depicts in his films, and he is the perfect counter-balance. He causes the scales to top. Joquean Phoenix defined the Joker… in Joker. He fits into the Gotham that film portrays. He lives in a world where half the citizens are seen as lesser and unworthy. The film puts the viewer in the position of these citizens while showcasing those who are oblivious to it, such as The Wayne’s, and Murray. Jack Nicholson defines the Joker… in Batman. He fits into the Gotham that film portrays. That world is comical, it’s unrealistic. It’s a cartoonishly glum and colourless city, only defined by the people who live in it, and those who live in it typically blend into the background. But the Joker stands out, he brings colour to the city to contrast Batman bringing darkness to the city, each representing Hope and Fear in spectacularly opposing ways. Each version of Gotham, and subsequently their Joker, is defined entirely by how their chosen actor plays them, especially contrasted within the City they exist in. That’s why Barry Keoghan’s Joker is yet to be defined, because all we’ve seen of him is from behind a pane of glass… but his performance is already striking enough that we can take a jab at how he’s going to contrast the bleak, overcrowded Gotham that we saw in The Batman. That’s why I have immense hope for him. (Jared Leto’s Joker is colourful and crazy… within a colourful and crazy world. He doesn’t contrast, he doesn’t make a statement the *society* he exists within. He is simply another card in the deck instead of someone defining Gotham City and contrasting it’s components. He is ultimately empty as an antagonist. But we all knew that…)

[@jacobdemorrow9568]

Amazing points. it’s a shame Jared Leto couldn’t have played a type of joker closer to the his Snyder cut version in that film. It was a far superior performance and direction even though we only got ~5 minutes of it

[@JLoStu42]

Well put, I'm hopeful for Barry's Joker and the contrast he will provide. I think Ledgers focused on understanding people and their killer instincts when pushed to it. I think Keogans way more focuses on Batman and that he understands HIM. I think this is going to be a much more intimate joker in a most unsettling way, and I'm here for it.

[@ostensiblegoosethief1305]

I'd like to see a joker ask someone to stand on a white cross on the floor, then a giant rubber anvil falls and fails to injure them and a henchman apologizes and says they couldn't afford a real anvil and then the joker just beats the henchman to death with a giant mallet and apologizes to the captive for the inconvenience and lets them go

[@sophiecooper1824]

Exactly, the comic book Joker we know and love . Fuck realism , let him have party gag items, let him have laughing fish or his trick gun that says "bang" let him have the bleached skin . Mark Hamill is still my favorite and why i stick to animated movies when it's about Batman

[@ostensiblegoosethief1305]

@@sophiecooper1824 yeah definitely, I mean it's in the name ffs, have him give someone a trick can of nuts that's actually full of buckshot or something

[@lordmeamcraft2231]

Dude aint no way you made a 22 minute long video essay on a 5 minute long deleted scene

[@kingvidster5637]

I have to say that the deleted scene was really good and actually got me excited. This is going to be a very good joker as the design first of all is more twisted, more acidic. I also like his voice and laugh because it feels uneasy. Not scary more uneasy. The creepy part of this joker is his appearance. I believe Barry has big potential in the role.

[@zeynaviegas5043]

agreed with almost everything. i actually dislike the appearence. for me its the only thing that's "try-hardy".

[@kingvidster5637]

@@zeynaviegas5043 Well to each their own. At least its a fresh new design that we did not get before.

[@wayothefro3249]

@@kingvidster5637 It's not exactly fresh, Gotham has already done the deformed Joker look with Jerome and I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the inspiration for this version of the Joker.

[@2kolbe010]

I dont think the joker will be the next villain. I think he will be the last.

[@200camels2]

Creepy is uncanny valley, you don't need to be deformed to do that. You can be disturbed listening to a serial killer fondly or nonchalantly recall a murder. They are so calm while going into details about how annoyed they were with a victim for scratching them as they fought for their life. You can have the Joker give a laugh at an inappropriate time or thing. Ledger's Joker stabbed a mobster in the eye with a pencil, while calling it a magic trick and making a pun, in front of the mob. For a moment you think he might actually do a magic trick before he actually stabs the guy as the Joker is a clown, but then he breaks this convention by doing a violent act with something that is usually fun and light-hearted. It's not only the surprise, but taking a silly predictable act and distorting it. This scene is shot with good lighting, is fast, no blood, and no screaming from the person who just got stabbed. To the Joker it's as if it didn't even happen, and he just did it to get the mobs attention. Now, imagine instead you had the Joker laugh maniacally as that guy rolled around on the floor screaming before being carted off. Would that actually add anything, or would it distract from the rest of the scene? I think it would take focus away from the Joker and the absurdity, and only highlight the pain he caused and his evilness. The Joker is more than this "evil", you don't need it to be darker and more twisted for it to be better.

[@NickWright]

I actually thought this joker portrayal - at least physically - is one of my favorites since Ledger (no comparison to Ledger). I'm also a fan of that actor since seeing him in "The Killing of a sacred deer" so maybe I'm biased. But that makeup job is incredible!

[@greyhelmantics9678]

the killing of a sacred dear is incredible. But he's also in Eternals which is absolute garbage, so I'm still skeptical

[@jaebrowne6780]

@@greyhelmantics9678 eternals was only garbage due to writing

[@john_your_drug_dealer]

same

[@Burialofagod]

That make up job made an ugly actor who does not look like joker or have any of the right mannerisms of the joker look even uglier. And not in the correct “evil anarchist the world is ugly” way. He looks like he has down syndrome and he did a horrible shitty job at facial acting, voice acting, and acting altogether

[@NickWright]

@@Burialofagod Classic DCU characters should be CONSTANTLY reinvented with new, creative styles. Jack Nicholson was the first truly iconic character. Then Heath Ledger, whose style was vastly different than Jack's. Then we had to suffer through a few Heath copycats for the last decade. Now we finally have a NEW twist on him while still keeping the fundamentals. He's still deformed - this time they've really focused on that and made it a major thing. He's still a criminal mastermind. He's still sarcastic and antagonizing toward batman. Now he's just more monstrous and menacing looking. It sounds like you just want more repeats of past deliveries.

[@oaktree149]

I Think I Like the Joker Best When isn’t “Crazy”. I Like It When He Uses Flamboyant Comedic Theatrical Insane Gestures as a Cover for Someone Who is at their Core, a Completely Calculated and Sane Man Who is just Evil Incarnate.

[@Lazyla]

I love that you pointed out Jerome and Jeremiah, you could immediately tell Jerome was meant to be the Joker right in the interrogation scene. The mannerisms were so unique and perfectly manufactured for a new type of the joker that hasn't ever been seen before. He stands out above Joaquín's and (especially) Jared Leto's Joker, because it is so original even when taking inspiration from Heath Ledger. Absolutely incredible performance, wish we got to see more of it.

[@user-cx1sp1xc7d]

Absolutely agree. The fact that he was able to convey the character in such a unique manner without even having the established characteristics (yk the green hair, the suit or even the name) proves how talented and how right he is for this role, its such a pitty he doesnt get the attention and appreciation he deserves, after all he is in my top 3 and he could have done such a good job if only he was casted in a actual dc movie or better yet the one in wich Rob is Batman.

[@illidan2425]

In my opinion, Cameron Monaghan's 'Joker' was one of the best interpretations of the character. Jerome Valeska as an antagonist is written almost perfectly and his Joker was more akin to the comics which still hasn't been done fully yet.

[@DeathSurgeonKid]

Absolutely! He's probably my fav live action Joker, too bad that he gets overlooked so often.

[@mohabalserafe3795]

I agree aside from Heath ledger joker Cameron Monaghan's he is the only one who made the character so great and yeah the performance of Phoenix was great but I don't give a shit how many times he wins the Oscar for his performance in this movie alone that's not the joker that I wanted to see yeah the movie takes place in a different universe but I would rather watch the dark night movie again over this

[@captnkaptn]

I found the "2 brothers aproach" with him quite goofy, but Monaghan definitly has the Joker energy I wanted to see, to the point where I disregard the storyline aspects that I didn't like just for the sake of the actual character portrait being superb.

[@mohabalserafe3795]

@@captnkaptn the only reason why they did that 2 brothers approach was because warner brothers didn't want the studio that made the arkham series to refer to Jerome AKA the joker as the joker for some so I guess things got missed up in the end and ended up creating a story of there own

[@inyourwifesas1033]

He was meh to me

[@MikkR6]

No one’s really ever tried to “recreate” heaths joker, phoenix imo is the best joker. Berrys joker wasn’t being an edge lord. And every version of the joker is completely different and imaginative

[@bless1984]

What you need to understand is that The Batman is a really grounded, realistic film. The deformity and scars are possibly the realistic results of Joker falling into the vat of chemicals. Unless you know another way of how acidic chemicals affect the body..... without negative effects.

[@kye698]

This is why they never should've gotten rid of dislikes

[@lep2525]

The idea of Jared Leto's Joker being a modern gangster could have been a really unique take if they had actually portrayed it that way

[@thankyoujodi]

They really half assed that one ehh?

[@Lizard2176]

Imagine if they just had a light hearted joker, no edgy philosophy. Like he acts like Todd from breaking bad, is pleasant, friendly, and just tries to make people laugh, but has no sense of humanity. Not in a self pity way like Phoenix, where he can’t understand people, just in a way where he is ruthless and has no guilt. I guess kind of like he was in Dark Knight Returns. Having a charming and warm Joker who is devoid of empathy would be a good foil to the new batman who is awkward and cold but deeply cares about people.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

Even Jack Nicholson's portrayal of Joker shared a lot of similarities with the idea of Joker being somewhat like a gangster. Although with clear differences. So it's not as if the concept doesn't work. That film simply didn't get it right

[@starhunter9085]

*I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@christianmorrow807]

Smh exactly my thought, wish he would’ve just been like the og gangsta joker from the comics. Less maniac and more crime crowned prince

[@2kolbe010]

In reeves interview, he said skmething on the lines of, “he isn’t the joker just yet”. Remember batman is still young. Yes there could’ve been more villains to put there but joker is the most famous. Also, I don’t think the joker will play a big part until much later down the line. Reeves knows exactly what he is doing.

[@rileylogan1031]

Yeah it would be interesting with barry's joker if he's just in arkham for most of the movies helping batman with cases until the last movie and he brakes out and does crazy stuff

[@jakubszamaek2380]

They’ll put him in a purple suit and everyone will praise it in 3 years

[@wingedferret5713]

People forget that the joker is an idea that is open to any possible interpretation

[@cloudbyx9970]

We only got few screentime of him bro chill 💀💀💀

[@spiritdetective90]

The problem with the joker is that there is no problem, everyone has an opinion about how the character should be portrayed and who he should be portrayed by, I mean come on, many of you hated heath ledger when he was cast and hated his look, then the film came out and all of a sudden everyone loves heath. This scene is a perfect representation of how Batman and Joker are not just plain rivals but more peers. They’re two sides of the same coin. And yes I’m all for a Joker that has Hannibal Lecter, Freddy Krueger, and Pennywise aspects to him, makes him look and act more frightening.

[@nobleskywalker4639]

Joaquin phoenix was the farthest thing from the actual Joker character even more so than Leto. He just had a better movie

[@djghostface292]

Thank you, someone in this comment section is literally trying to tell me Joaquin was 100% accurate to the Joker💀

[@Inigo004]

Joaquin was an amazing Joker, but his movie is shockingly bad

[@nobleskywalker4639]

@@Inigo004 I disagree he was the furthest thing from the Joker but his performance, character and movie is amazing. Its just not... Joker

[@jayrichard2970]

Agreed. I think he could be more of a precursor to Joker than the actual Joker….the movie was good but I don’t see him as the actual Joker.

[@nobleskywalker4639]

@@jayrichard2970 even then Gotham did the precursor Joker better than Joaquin's movie did. Again Joaquin's perfomance and character in the movie he is in is great.

[@garydevans4782]

The cut scene feels like it’s just from a completely different movie, it’s so boring and predictable compared to how amazing the rest of the Batman was

[@apechilly]

While I agree with the the statement that too many actors try to achieve what heath did in the dark knight I don’t think we have enough evidence to say the same about Barry’s performance. He was on screen for about a minute in the actual film and the deleted scene was only 5 minutes. I’m going to wait until we get more substance from his interpretation of the joker to form my full opinion and I’d advise others to do the same imo

[@anonymousR7]

I'm glad to see most of the comments disagree with most of what you said. Throwing Cameron Monaghan, Barry Keoghan, Joaquin Phoenix and Jared Leto all on the same boat, implying that they're all copying Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger seems odd. Fans are not "Joker'd out" just because there have been many portrayals in recent years. There's been that many Jokers because we love the Joker. And we love Batman, that's why in the same amount of time, the Batman has been played by Christian Bale, Will Arnett, David Mazouz, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson and Kevin Conroy (among others). You say that Keoghan's Joker was predictable, but I certainly didn't predict that the next time I saw the Joker in an interrogation scene, it'd be Batman seeking help from the Joker, Mindhunter style. If the Joker was truly unpredictable in each iteration, wouldn't that become predictable? Is it predictable because we predict that the Joker will be crazy or mentally damaged? Is it predictable that the Joker will try to get under Batman's skin? Isn't that who the Joker is? If we expect Batman to always thwart Joker's attempt to seduce him to the dark side each time, wouldn't the Batman become predictable too, and "boring" as you said? Moreover, you've fallen into the same trap that every single critic falls into whenever this type of content gets out, which is to film a nearly half-hour long video deconstructing a five-minute deleted scene. Not that you'd read this far, but maybe you should sit the next Batman film out if it includes the Joker?

[@inyourwifesas1033]

That's okay everybody doesn't have to agree with him

[@bleedinggreen2518]

@@inyourwifesas1033 Ok. but almost nobody does. This is just plan stupid.

[@Goobywoobygoo]

Idk how you see the Batmen as being sufficiently different but think Joaquin is ripping off Heath.

[@jwatts94]

Yeah, that made no fucking sense

[@Thelastsonned]

Honestly

[@EntourageBand_]

IMO the absolute best way they could do the joker is get a comedic actor and/or stage actor who wants to play a dramatic role and place them into the joker's role. They'll have the natural charisma that comes with their respective roles and use it to make their Joker into the twisted showman that he is.

[@justaguy2005]

Joquean Phoenix shows a slow decent into madness and I think the fridge scene could be for when he feels overwhelmed he wants to be in tight spaces with only himself

[@alexlazzerly3677]

I don’t have a problem with the performance, I just think the design is way over the top, and distracts from the acting. Matt Reeves wanted him to be someone struggling with a disease where he can’t stop smiling, and that was really interesting to me. Just Barry Keogan with a permanent smile would be really unsettling. I don’t see why they also felt the need to add so much other types of deformities and scarring that seems like it’s trying too hard. Sometimes less is more.

[@mcgrewfamily]

the joker literally falls in burning acid of course his skin is going to be burnt up and he will be missing hair. Him becoming the joker was recent in this universe so he will still have signs of that it wasn't overdone it was accurate to the start of joker.

[@alexlazzerly3677]

@@mcgrewfamily Joker’s origin has been changed many times. Matt Reeves has said that this interpretation of the Joker was born with the smile, not the vat of acid. If you can find a quote that contradicts this, then great. But even still, I think the design is overdone. Just my opinion.

[@FilmSpeak]

Yeah the design is just TOO much. Like let the actor shape the performance, not the prosthetics.

[@mcgrewfamily]

@@alexlazzerly3677 I literally said everything was due to acid but the smile💀

[@alexlazzerly3677]

@@mcgrewfamily Oh I didn’t know Reeves confirmed that he fell in acid too. Either way my original point is I don’t think falling in acid was necessary at all. Just like Heart Ledger’s joker was just a dude in war paint, Barry Keoghan with a permanent smile and some makeup would have been creepy enough.

[@Zsswimmer1]

I'm ao looking forward to this interpretation of Joker. That deleted scene made him out as a pretty scary guy and looks like he has Leprosy or something. I wish the Joker was sidelined for awhile but if he's gonna be in there, I like this one. I feel like it felt fresh to me, idk.

[@lusidrain]

Exactly

[@grognackthedestroyer1177]

he just fell into a vat of acid so that's why he's deformed

[@Zsswimmer1]

@@grognackthedestroyer1177 we don't know that about this universes' Joker though. That's his comic origins sure but I wouldn't be surprised if these are birth defects or something Edit: Google searching shows articles saying its a birth defect

[@emilycanfield2634]

I thought it either looked like he fell in acid(though I heard they aren't doing this story) or Batman has beat the living shit out of him so many times he's literally deformed. Or he's been caught in his own crazy stuff(has blown or cut himself up)

[@ashaw3737]

I agree it felt fresh without being forced/obnoxious, like Jared Leto's Joker...and very well acted