Film Theory: Joker Is The Hero of Gotham (Batman The Dark Knight)

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We've been talking a LOT about the Joker lately, but today we are shifting focus to a different version of our smiling bad guy. The Heath Ledger version of the Joker from Christopher Nolan's Batman movie, The Dark Knight. I rewatched it recently and started to wonder, have we misunderstood this story the whole time? Could the Joker actually be the HERO of Gotham City, not Batman? We shall see, Theorists!
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#Joker #Batman #TheDarkKnight #HeathLedger #DarkKnight #TheJoker #ChristopherNolan #FilmTheory #Matpat
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Credits:
Writer: Matthew Patrick and Zach Stewart
Editors: Dan "Cybert" Seibert, Koen Verhagen, and BanditRants
Assistant Editor: AlyssaBeCrazy
Sound Editor: Yosi Berman

[@Joker-yz8vd]

Petition to put Matt pat in the evil villain pub ⬇️

[@BootupProcess]

You, my good lad, are supporting a good cause.

[@sussyratplayermuchamong3659]

I second that good sir!

[@eldiablo6374]

He should go there

[@junefall4189]

Lmao pinned

[@TheG_Boy]

Ooooh doubling the cringe ? I like that !

[@lensnomad2190]

The scene that Joker was clapping after hearing that Gordon is the new commissioner makes more sense now

[@burjaman11]

and that scene was improvised by Ledger

[@lensnomad2190]

@@burjaman11 oh! Interesting. How do you know that? 👀

[@Captain-Sum.Ting-Wong]

More likely it was just him mocking him...

[@mobilemonkey503]

Yep, and to think that scene was improvised by one of my favorite actors

[@roaringthunder115]

Wow

[@musicsucks5843]

Alfred: some men just wanna watch the world burn Also Alfred: we burned the forest down

[@PoeticSonic]

Duh, obviously he was talking about himself....I bet he did so many bad shit in his service that he makes pain look like a better boy scout than superman.

[@Gavirael]

Music Sucks You got a point there.

[@100Mmore]

never thought of that

[@chonkyboi7542]

Trying to tell him what he was going to have to do to catch joker.

[@musicsucks5843]

@@chonkyboi7542 burning down a forest to catch a jewel thief. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

[@seihanda8792]

Joker : "Gasolines are cheap" People in 2022 : "Nice joke buddy"

[@silvertigerhd7401]

No, people say, "And I thought my jokes were bad"

[@prayasdash]

At least cheaper than guns and bullets

[@JohnathanBlades]

That is not exactly the line

[@hoovyandpoland]

After all, he is a "joke"r

[@puffygasp3982]

"Yeah thats a good one buddy, no wonder why they call you The Joker."

[@fantomperfide5170]

"To defeat evil, I must become a greater evil" -Lelouch vi Britannia the joker took this very seriously

[@John2r1]

Considering the jokers scars are likely a result of combat. Not because of a drunk father or self inflicted for his wife. His ability to tactically plan out operations , knowledge with weapons , explosives and ability to drive a large truck which requires experience and normally a CDL to be capable of . All points to a veteran who came home to find his home being controlled by thugs and mobsters with corrupt officials turning a blind eye to the problems. His wife he speaks of likely killed herself or was killed for outstanding debts to the scum of Gotham. That is likely what set an otherwise peaceful veteran off. And created this version of the joker. As he seems to have nothing but hate and disdain for thugs and mobsters . His actions show this throughout the movie.

[@Toxic_Dominat810]

​@@John2r1I like that theory

[@Ad-fu6tj]

Why so serious?

[@Dabis_adopted_daughter]

Haha

[@Dabis_adopted_daughter]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@nathanberlin5904]

either die a villian, or live long enough for matpat to make you a hero

[@andrelintner9150]

He died a villain :(

[@mihirbiswas8884]

@@andrelintner9150 but lived long enough in our hearts to become a so called "hero"

[@goji-0045]

@@andrelintner9150 wait? Joker died?

[@neonsky77]

@@goji-0045 yep

[@syn_2529]

@@neonsky77 not permanently

[@darkknight7545]

"Out of chaos comes order"- Nietzsche "I'm an agent of chaos"- Joker Well played sir

[@darklord884]

Are you implying that the Joker creates order by threatening civilian lives with bombs? Or by turning an actually righteous prosecutor insane?

[@nuguns3766]

@@darklord884 common enemy unites

[@darklord884]

@@nuguns3766 Did Hitler create order then? The danger he posed united the allies after all, no?

[@jefftag3099]

Does this mean you fight fire with fire?????🤔

[@sorenkarlesson5736]

Jung: the fool is the precursor to the savior

[@Mallen151]

The Dark Knight got me thinking about how values alone shouldn’t define people. I noticed that The Joker achieved things that I strive for. He let go of vices, lives in the moment and doesn’t expect a reward. However, he twisted those values into something horrifying. ‬

[@meilaoshi9439]

“Let go of vices”? He murdered a LOT of people, can’t get any more full of vice than that.

[@delanovanraalte3646]

if you dont know someone's intent look at the aftermath of his actions

[@crescent_midnight7929]

The whole ‘agent of chaos’ thing could be the joker making the metaphors that there has to be a bit of chaos before there can be order, it creates a balance.

[@adad87821]

true and in fact joker did save gotham in the end think about it no corruption no orginzied crime for 8 years till bane shows up so yeah i do belive joker is actually the hero in a messed up but good way

[@zeryuouros4411]

Or maybe, the word "Agent of Chaos" here means Joker was created by the chaos that Batman created and he is here for one mission, to restore balance onto the city.

[@thibvp778]

order in chaos

[@Ordinaloutcast]

Exactly

[@gabrieljordan8015]

Also keep in mind the Joker could have blown up that hospital when everyone was still inside it but instead gave everyone a chance to get out first.

[@guythat779]

Tbf he likes the chaos, not the attacks And it was incentive for the ppl to try and kill a guy

[@2raw328]

Gabriel Jordan he wanted Harvey dent alone

[@jasonleslie203]

He wanted/needed to get harvey dent alone so he could manipulate him,like he was trying to do to batman

[@velocityx2364]

Gabriel Jordan sadly

[@nickolasbrown3342]

@Wily Wyvern // Metal Dragon Productions how do you know he was gonna blow up the ships? Because he said so? HAS THIS THEORY TAUGHT YOU NOTHING?!

[@km_studios]

This reminds me of a African proverb I read about once: "Until lions have their own historians, the hunter will always be the hero of the story"

[@darklord884]

So the Joker is a lion now? Call MatPat, that's going to be his next theory!

[@atmo-sphere6799]

@Thomas Emilio *and

[@W.S._Ortega]

Oswin Benjamin said this line but slightly different in a freestyle on Sway In the Morning. "Until lions learn to write from their own perspective, every story told will be glorifying the hunter". Preach.

[@RapOperaCentral]

@@W.S._Ortega Damn! Mad props to you for referencing Sway in the Morning while on this channel.

[@diegocaceres7884]

This is weird, we don't like hunters anymore, so are we lion historians now?

[@dawnsmith2585]

Love the way you described Batman... "A lunatic in a ninja costume that jumps off roof tops..."

[@johnfreepunk6664]

“How about I cut you up into little pieces and feed you to your pooches. Then we’ll see how loyal a hungry dog really is” This one quote can perfectly describe the message Joker was trying to convey upon Gotham through the whole movie.

[@WynneL]

Funny thing is, I've read that dogs will wait longer to eat their dead owners if starving than cats will.

[@EvanYoungMusic]

“You’re killing millions...” “... to save billions.” -Ozamandias

[@lungaville1219]

Evan James *Laughs in Pharaoh*

[@stevekujo8716]

DAJA KU

[@fernandocervantes6074]

@@stevekujo8716 with Dio voice insert as well.

[@JT044-iz1cv]

Perfectly balenced...As all things should be.

[@Psalm_23]

@JusticeGraceful its Rorschach not warshack

[@benknight1089]

Joker: *Kills thousands of people” Mat pat: Carefully he’s a hero

[@Aryan_kakar_]

Joker:*kills thousands of people to save millions of people* if want to have something you have to lose something and most of the people that were killed were bad people

[@imperialguardsman135]

@SILVI NUR FAJRIAH 2014 shut up bot

[@expensive-brother]

He killed dozens at most

[@radioactivesupersavage3703]

He is joker saved a lot of parents for paying child support thanks joker.👍

[@lazyboi2373]

Aryan Kakar joker was a manipulator. He lied about his past, his motives, not to mention trying to kill dents girlfriend without remorse. He clearly was a psychopath, but whether or not he was trying to save Gotham was debatable

[@muztahidmustafa1215]

14:20 The BEST Line“We can’t SEE ourselves as the VILLAIN if we think we are the hero”

[@4eyesinthecorner399]

Well this just makes so much sense and gives me even more reason to love the joker as a “villain”. These kind of superhero stories have always irritated me in that the “hero” spends their time fighting crime and putting the bad guys in jail when there’s generally a much larger underlying reason for such crime in the first place. They have all of the resources and means to be able to eradicate crime from the bottom up but get fixated on the more surface level petty crimes that they don’t see the big picture. This take on the story where the joker is actually the “hero” perfectly reflects a lot of the pretences and issues in our society. Also, it totally makes sense to call the joker a consequentialist in his beliefs rather than just a crazy man who’s sole goal is chaos (though there’s no denying that he isn’t entirely sane). We even studied scenes of this film when doing a lesson about utilitarianism is religious studies.

[@LordBloodraven]

Joker's cruelest joke... "I'm gonna make this pencil disappear...."

[@robertbaur3145]

hes a pencil pusher quite the brain teaser

[@wisdommapping9406]

Tada!

[@acdexter3219]

@@wisdommapping9406 Its, ah, its gone.

[@youngefaucet2713]

I remember that part

[@limeangelo6019]

Im gonna make this minority disappear

[@austinfullerton6243]

“You can’t see yourself as a villain when you think you’re the hero”👏🏽

[@stateofopportunity1286]

This explains both Republicans and Democrats perfectly.

[@newportreds6710]

State of Opportunity facts

[@TheMariusDarkwolf]

Almost nobody sees themselves as the villain of the story

[@beasbiswas90]

Simple, Be an anti-hero

[@lucanovellino1010]

That's why I don't like shows or movies where they think they are evil. Nobody thinks they are evil. Others may think it ab them, but they see themselves and what they're doing as heroic

[@therandomguy2441]

Nolan did infact give us the most realistic batman ever. It showed us that dressing as a bat and running over rooftops is not the solution.

[@iamshikhersrivastava]

exactly, Joker is not an agent of chaos or even "not afraid of death" he just wants others to think that he is. This is how he is able to get out of the mob meeting because everyone there thinks that Joker is crazy and will not mind killing himself with them. He created a reputation for himself so everyone thinks of him a certain way to distract from his actual plan (First impression is the last impression). People to label things a certain way so as to not spend mental energy thinking about it, and everyone thinks of Joker as the crazy person who is just doing it for the lols (what Alfred and Bruce think of Joker) and because of this categorization he never acts the way people expects him to, he seems chaotic.

[@adamfield8669]

If MatPat was The Joker’s defense lawyers Joker probably wouldn’t have had a life sentence lol

[@omgitsalia8919]

But I mean he would probably be charged with 2 first degree murder and attempted murder and probably more that I dont remember

[@Aegon1]

omg its alia add arson and technically being a mob boss

[@omgitsalia8919]

Yeah that to and a bank robbery

[@anarchomando7707]

Oh no that man was still be going to the electric chair No wait I truly think it'll be decapitation (from a holy blade such as Wonder Woman's) then burning of the body would And throwing the ashes into space work

[@omgitsalia8919]

@Juggled Lotus lol

[@KingOfCatfish707]

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." This really brings a new twist to that quote.

[@TheAzraf123]

oh boyyyy

[@KingOfCatfish707]

@Octopus Of the nine realms Batman "became a villain" at the end of the movie in order to preserve Harvey Dent/Two-Face's public image. But this video is basically implying that Batman had already become a villain - or at the very least, complicit in Gotham's corruption - without realizing it.

[@KingOfCatfish707]

@@DB-sd3cw I'm more of a soyboy tbh, but cuck works too.

[@herpderpitypurple73]

Yeah Game/Film Theory's like that

[@fluffball6142]

Joker is the reverse card of " you either die a hero. Or live long enough to see yourself become a villain". Joke is " you either die a villain . or live long enough to see yourself become a hero "

[@kevinnguyen4937]

“You ever die a hero, or live to see yourself turn into a villain.” -Harvey Dent He warned us at the beginning of the movie of this.

[@-Azroth-]

This makes the sentence " *sometimes u have to be the villain to be a hero* " to a whole new lvl

[@jakobbredell103]

Think of Joker as Gotham’s fever. When you’re sick your body “torments” you with symptoms to expel sickness. Joker tormented Gotham to expel crime

[@vergilonachair4487]

Wow. That's. Impressive! Good job

[@cedriclee7110]

simpler solution is more cow bells.

[@Dinosaurianationazation]

At least the villian of the Dark Knight wasn't Light Yagami, or any of the other Kiras from Death Note. Things would have gone WAAAYYY worse!

[@soulkarver956]

@@cedriclee7110 Yeah. Raw cowbell gets the job done.

[@anonco1907]

@Smirking Loli True but I think the point is that the end result is better than before.

[@Ellicess]

One thing you should mention: The Joker also never revealed his intentions because he didn’t want people to follow his example.

[@BBBHuey]

And also to just f*** with them.

[@am_connor4914]

The commentator, i dont think anyone has mentioned the fact that joker even kills his own allies in the first scene of the movie. He kills criminals

[@MrTheVadimpje]

There is a second joker in that film ^^ his brother

[@catholiccontriversy]

The money burning scene, the thing that made me realize how crazy Joker was was when he said "gas is cheap" at a time when gas was at it's most expensive ever and everyone was talking about how expensive gas was.

[@PaperRoute4Life]

We definitely need a deeper dive into the dialogue used in this movie as well. I know a good portion was already explained, but I do feel like there's more to be discussed. I love watching this movie even more now because I finally have 4k resolution and I did see The Dark Knight in theatres in the IMAX Experience which was incredible to say the least

[@mrbonesaw90]

I think you missed the most important part. The Ferries, i think that was the ultimate test for Joker to see if the city was worth saving. If either ferry blew up, it meant the people of Gotham had been corrupted and Joker would've probably given up and let Batman take him into custody with Harvey killing Gordon's family and effectively plunging the city into chaos. Joker let Batman know because the ferries reaffirmed the idea the city could be fixed. Like in Joker's "Everybody loses there minds" speech the idea is that Gotham should fundamentally realize the weight of every single life, from the gang bangers to soldiers. The message in the ferry scene is that the lives aboard are equal regardless if your a petty criminal or a scared civilian. The Joker's line about liking knifes because it allows the Joker to be more intimate with his victim then a gun, he understands the purpose and weight of every single murder he commits.

[@polishdumpling7209]

😶😶😶👏👏👏

[@himynameiskobey.7994]

I have no words...

[@Bradley_Dragon]

@Acid gameplay eh he wanted to rile up the batman. thats why he said it and made sure bat heard it. if he wanted to actually blow both up he had PLENTY of time.

[@prabhnoorhans9765]

That's just smart.

[@TheKarmak]

The Joker's joke was on society. What he wanted was proof that everyone can be a murderer and psychopath like he is. And when that didn't work, he told batman about harvey dent, because he knew if he could have gotham, he'd have at least batman. The Joker is not a hero, not even an anti-hero. He accidentally saved a city when he tried to destroy it, all because he thought it would be a funny joke. THAT is the Joker.

[@justinkongol0]

“Fine I’ll do it myself” -Joker

[@alexisgarcia-pl5on]

justin kongolo speaking of wich you know how i got these scars? - joker

[@captainahab2518]

"but this, does put smile on my face" -Joker

[@varunsvinu]

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru - Joker

[@HeliosimWorld]

"Persona!" -Joker

[@mayabartholomew3402]

Seems like somebody’s sharing Thanos’ family tree

[@nintari6587]

This just makes me like heath ledgers Joker even more. Truly this trilogy was something else.

[@adad87821]

right?even the batman cant match up to the dark knight trilogy

[@SilkandScrooge]

In my mind I assume joker died shortly after we last see him by cutting the string Batman had him hanging with and fell to his death because we don't see him in TDKR. He probably figured he had accomplished everything he tried too.

[@Plymouth_Belvedere]

To sum this up: "Just because you are bad guy, does not mean you are Bad Guy."

[@pyro9251]

Oof

[@Plymouth_Belvedere]

@unknowning unknown Just cause it's old doesnt mean it's not accurate to the character.

[@AMcGrath82]

Zangief literally wasn't a bad guy, though.

[@tomhill3248]

"I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's nobody I would rather be, then me...."

[@thex3635]

Who's BaD ?

[@ccf3195]

It makes so much sense what joker was trying to do. He was actually doing everyone a favor. He got rid of the mob and their money, got rid of the corrupted hierarchy, and broke Batman’s ideology. Batman was the cancer joker was trying to exterminate as prove that everyone can change no matter what you believe in or who you are. In the end they were all helping each other without knowing it.

[@ExAnimoPortugal]

He's not a monster. He's just ahead of the curve.

[@VampRune]

"In my years of fighting crime l learned one thing. Every villain is a hero in their own story..." - Bruce Wayne in Injustice 2

[@fearless4him595]

VampRune Dude, I love the Injustice Storyline.

[@FutureDeep]

They're also a cowardly and superstitious lot.

[@bryantamon8633]

@@FutureDeep or are they? Its all about perspective after all. You may see one thing but others may see something else.

[@dillongaddis1436]

@@bryantamon8633 🤯

[@Cosmalano]

So he’s saying he knows he’s the villain. Maybe in a broader sense the Joker really is just an extremely ill man and Batman can’t kill him because he’s morally opposed to killing an ill person, but no effort to lock him up works, and this quote is his acknowledgment that he’s the villain because he’d rather save his own conscious by not killing the Joker, which thereby allows many people to get hurt as a result.

[@mrj7297]

And i quote: "A villain is just a hero off the other side..."

[@user-qd8cs7nv7p]

No, that'a an anti hero.

[@user-qd8cs7nv7p]

Also, your'e supposed to say who your'e quoring it from.

[@thatcooldudeisawesome876]

What are you a teacher?

[@user-qd8cs7nv7p]

@@thatcooldudeisawesome876 no, Im just smarter. Jk

[@mrj7297]

if that was true, you would have figured out how google works by now, try it! :)

[@tomhopkins7325]

He isn't a monster, He's just ahead of the curve....

[@garymanz3403]

If a person is willing to sacrifice you, he’s the villain. If he’s willing to sacrifice himself, he’s the hero.

[@Gacha_gays]

What if they're willing to sacrifice both?

[@garymanz3403]

@@Gacha_gays then he’s Jim Jones

[@_baller]

I see Batman like that guy who wants to keep his job and just fix certain things slowly, while Joker is that guy who doesn't care about keeping his job he just wants to see the whole system revamped

[@insupportofjunhado]

So Alex Shelley is Batman, Joker is Joey Matthews and Gotham is RoH.

[@lelouchvibritannia4028]

In Code Geass, Suzaku is Batman while Lelouch is Joker.

[@marquisondeck1341]

Literally me at my job

[@gv1685]

Slow and steady wins the race(?)

[@senkkella7664]

@@gv1685 nah

[@SipheDlamini]

That Alfred in Burma bribing leaders had always went over my mind, so clear now... WoW

[@reconx86]

I always thought it was cruel, but I never gave it deep thought as these guys did.

[@royanque8374]

How DID they catch the Joker? By using that Bat echolocator. I thought that was the "burn the forest" thing. But the Joker "stealing" the Mafia money so they can no longer bribe/control the Gotham justice system... Quite spot on. But HEY...

[@edp-gb6yz]

wait what????

[@edp-gb6yz]

@@reconx86 pls explain

[@reconx86]

@@edp-gb6yz Alfred is the real villian in his own story @12:11

[@lorde_spooky]

Slight problem, he explicitly says he only burned his half of the money. He didn't bankrupt the mafia, not even close. Also batman doesn't retire at the end of this film he retires at some other point within the eight years in between films, he's still clearly active at the end of the film.

[@donjon9853]

Can you back up this idea of Batman continuing his activity after TDK?

[@happytrails151]

He burned all of the money. That's the joke. The fire will just spread over the whole thing

[@manwhoismissingtwotoenails4777]

The Joker in this is like a Nihilist with too much fire power. If you notice he has a pretty stable moral code that he sticks to, basically he thinks everyone is capable of the same evils and everyone is only one situation from doing unspeakable things i.e. the boat scene where they'd try to blow one up.

[@Seraph_1m]

“Very sophisticated plans” *plays clip of joker in a dress*

[@colbyberggren3577]

I read this just as he said it

[@ladymercy5275]

Imagine a sophisticated A.I. forecasting system that's connected to swaths of personal data and financial records. You ask it to solve a problem that nobody's been able to so far, like 'saving Gotham' or whatever. What do you think the probability is that it would suggest a plan of action that wasn't so completely bonkers that nobody's tried it, before? If anything, what we've learned here is that nurse cosplay is an undeniable force to be reckoned with. Alternating between that and evil clown make-up just kicks it up to 11.

[@vasanthaarun8602]

Colby Berggren same

[@Vivigreeny25]

*He's s o p h i s t i c a t e d*

[@KiffKan]

@@ladymercy5275 you have WAY too much time on your hand

[@leejohnstone2285]

The Joker: you know what I notice? Nobody panics when everything goes to plan! Even if the plan is horrifying

[@gordonb1367]

The whole point of that speech was always to let the audience know he does have a plan. He isn’t “an agent of chaos” in the usual sense of the word, he’s unbelievably methodical and meticulous in his scheme, he just needs to play into an extremely common fear of the unknown.

[@davidwood481]

So true it's scary

[@mightystellwan1974]

"Introducing a little anarchy, Upside the established order and everything became chaos. Do you know anything above chaos? IT'S FAIR!"

[@SOC675]

because chaos means everything fights for themselves including the schemers of the established order.@@mightystellwan1974

[@bobertthemanyeah20]

That’s why it scares me how smart the joker actually is

[@bdtcrypto1542]

4:10 - "We start carrying semi automatics" - well sounds like they were carrying musket loaders or revolvers before so theres the problem

[@cathiaaskew1106]

Joker: *takes rich people hostage* Batman: *shows up* Joker: and he waddled away waddle waddle

[@stevenmorales7814]

And he came back the very next day, bam bam bam batty bam

[@cathiaaskew1106]

steven morales Hehehe I completely forgot why I made this joke

[@andrewaftontheandroidhedge2780]

@@cathiaaskew1106 it was funny tho

[@rachelguderjahn2231]

Till the very next day! *bomp* *bomp* *bomp* *bamp bada bamp*

[@WhyForWhatNow]

Got Any Graaapes?

[@adam346]

"i'm just ahead of the curve" - Joker

[@golazo1266]

He really wasn't kidding lols

[@trollof229antthevariable9]

Oh shiiit. 😂😂😂😅

[@jiahajime5815]

The fact that Batman hates a lot

[@johntaylor8463]

Aw for fuck sake, you lot will be pro Bateman soon enough

[@NoCharName]

I bet it was a bell curve.

[@elizawulf8180]

Mat could have stated that this interpretation of Joker is more in line with the philosophy of Anarchy, which is akin to chaos because it seeks to abolish/undermine/disrupt hierarchies in favor of returning power/control to communities. (Ideally in an egalitarian manner...and not harming said communities)

[@dafilmqueen556]

You mean Lonnie Machin aka Anarky is exactly how MatPat is describing Heath Ledger's Joker?

[@shayan7579]

the joker movie also plays into this. joker kept parts of his past personality that wanted to make people happy all along. which is why he insists on masking his man as clowns and why his actions sometimes look more like magic Tricks than evil scemes.

[@josephpena6181]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@varadakolkar229]

The best thing I like about the Joker is that he doesn't have supernatural powers and yet he is a supervillain.

[@eschelar]

That's actually the key to why he is the best villain and why batman is the best hero. Neither has powers. Instead of making them more powerful, they made them more interesting. Moriarty is also somewhat timeless for the same reason and it was vital for Doyle to make Moriarty to provide a good villain for Holmes. We don't actually like good superheroes. We like relatable superheroes that overcome through provoking and genuinely unsettling villains.

[@Nobody-bh9ew]

Same with Bruce Wayne

[@stevetheweebgamer6939]

As Megamind said to Tighten: Oh you're a villain alright, just not a *super* one! O yeah what's the difference!? (epic entrance) *PRESENTATION!*

[@fatimazz]

@@stevetheweebgamer6939 wow...

[@matthewealy7420]

@@eschelar although I'll agree that the joker is one of the best villains, I don't agree that batman is the best super hero. Maybe for Gotham level villains but once you get to justice league level baddies, the only reason batman is so successful is plot armor by the writers.

[@Angel-pv6nr]

You know, it's amazing what you can get done when you don't concern yourself with right and wrong. -Joker

[@vegitoson4218]

Then we can do what we want. Without the restrictions of other people and their rules.

[@montaholic3120]

nice edgelord quote, it's not like as if he never said that or anything

[@Sylinnilys]

I think he did, from another source.

[@KoolMonkE]

OKAYYY, but if I say Thanos was right, I'm the bad guy.

[@montaholic3120]

@@KoolMonkE No offence God but you are the bad guy for believing that half the universe should die for a problem that doesn't exist

[@cashthecurator666]

I really like this theory. It makes Joker seem like a more insane and sadistic version of V from V for Vendetta.

[@C.Ross_Faded]

RIP Heath Ledger. Absolute legend bro. With him at the helm Joker could do no wrong. He definitely holds a special place in all of our hearts. This theory is nice cause it adds a level of dignity to his already awesome legacy. Besides Joker he had such a diverse and dynamic acting career, I don’t mean to digress but I loved him as Casanova. But personally he was the Joker I was exposed to, grew up with and I’m grateful. That talented man gave this character his all and it shows, absolutely amazing performance and wonderful theory. Also I’m glad you hired the man who made that popular theory. I love seeing my boys cop the bag, hope y’all are doing well. Anyways, sorry for the rant if you read this far have a blessed day you wonderful child of light. I love you.

[@dream_walker9726]

I know this comment is old but I’m currently recovering from issues my anemia and medical troubles and this has literally made my day.

[@sgtmajor5700]

In the original “Batman” Joker announces “This town needs an enema”

[@Newt2799]

Dang I didn't know the town was constipated

[@fordelianas5469]

means cleansing Gotham of its chaos & scourge Also for us viewers it's cleaning out the shit lol

[@kevinkoger5749]

Psywriter 😔😔😖😖😩😢😫😭😭😭

[@noonenowhere877]

@@Newt2799 I mean metaphorically it is definitely clogged up with shit.

[@aLwE17]

​@Psywriter 1989 Joker said "This town needs an enema", you're probably too young to know about it. Here's the scene. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2K3oZhjmceDh6s It's another way of saying "this town needs to flush out the shit out of its system so it feels better".

[@nxmad1153]

Everyone in Gotham: Gotham cannot be saved. Joker: Fine i'll do it myself

[@noneofyourbuisness6244]

He actually said: "hold my beer"

[@connieshoes9564]

Dead meme my friend

[@pacerknight6866]

@@connieshoes9564 "Dead meme because I said so"

[@mikkitoro8933]

You could also say, "You can't rely on anyone these days, you gotta do everything yourself."

[@josephpena6181]

​@@mikkitoro8933 Joker always say this in cartoons

[@kg2131]

This video was right on everything except for one aspect. Batman wasn't just stopping a,few petty crimes here and there, he was trying his best to track down the leaders and mafia bosses but it was taking to long.

[@dreikelvin]

Considering how intellectual Nolan's dark knight trilogy is, this actually makes perfect sense. The joker is - just like in a card game - the perfect hero card you can play in order to win. Very well researched.

[@jasoncruz7805]

Joker: *blows up hospital * Mat pat: such a nice guy

[@neilsosa842]

the hospital was evacuated and Matpat said he is not a good person

[@damiengermosen5367]

11:27

[@kyronminnock7282]

Yep

[@zarrar736]

Neil Sosa not really, 50 people went missing during that explosion

[@zarrar736]

Neil Sosa how do you explain deaths of hundreds of other casualties during his stunts , plus when he bombed an entire police station along with prisoners to get out , oh and what about when he bombed the judge or poisoned the commissioner ... ill wait

[@saltyrattoes689]

“You’re crazy” “nO iM nOt”

[@Cajek2]

Batman is responsible for crime? Uh... I don't think he is. Those criminals are responsible.

[@vampuricknight1]

@@Cajek2 he's not responsible for the crime, only the escalation of it. Even in the comics whenever Batman's villains have a meet up they OFTEN talk about how the only reason they have gone as far with their evil plans is because batman pushed them to that degree of desperation. An example, at one point Mr. Freeze tried to freeze the world as part of a larger scheme... he stated he only attempted that because he knew batman would stop him (because deep down he knows the implication would be dire for humanity and he is not really a "bad guy morally") and that his "real goal" was just to secure stolen funding/materials along the way to keep his wife alive... which he also accomplished. In that same comic poison ivy remarks that while she's tried multiple times to wipe out humanity to make room for her plants she'd ideally be willing to settle if humanity would just stop destroying the rain forests/polluting and allowed her to grow plants capable of defending themselves there. Since she knows batman will stop her anyway she feels pressured to step up her threats so that people take her message seriously should she ever HAPPEN to win.

[@RunItsTheCat]

OMO

[@brody2090]

Im just ahead of the curve

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Cajek Batman is not responsible for crime, he is the incentive that drove crime, which is why his retirement was indeed the solution to crime in Gotham. I thought this was so obvious Film Theory would not ever find themselves covering this. I guess I was wrong. Regardless, that was kind of the entire point of not only Dark Knight, but Dark Knight Rises.

[@DungeonMaster07]

this is probably the most accurate analysis on this channel.

[@vincentleeadams]

This is one of your best, if not your best movie theory episode. Bravo!

[@EvilParagon4]

"Hey MatPat, could you sponsor us?" "Sure Honey, I'll mention how you can buy explosive materials for cheap!"

[@calebsatterfield1935]

Ima just buy some gunpowder and dynamite for that orphanage. Thanks Honey!

[@bs2202]

@MARK PEARSON why so serious

[@lurker6918]

@MARK PEARSON just from reading your comments I can tell what type of person you are, and the Joaquin Phoenix joker is at the same level as heath ledger's joker in my opinion, but it's still hard to compare them when they are in 2 very different styled movies.

[@lurker6918]

@MARK PEARSON Omg I'm so tired of hearing the words "I didnt like it because it was sad", thats literally the point, thats was what the director was going for. What did you think you were going to watch? And wdym he sounds gay? That's his voice in the movie, just because someone has a higher pitched voice doesn't suddenly make them gay, and the way that he acts and dances is just how he is, I mean he is crazy after all, why would you expect him to act like a normal person would.

[@broly425]

That's a great way to get placed on the FBI watch list

[@DocMustafa]

The correct term for joker is not “villain,” he is the “anti-hero”

[@osiris8680]

Anti-Villain

[@mrpopo9444]

@@osiris8680 anti-vigilante

[@osiris8680]

Gmz_ g14 Bravo

[@tylerborg7668]

just like omar in the wire. they even have some of the same ideals about it not being about the money, but to send a message.

[@TheDictismiT]

I don't think you know what anti-hero is lol

[@nexusinc.4367]

These and many other points are what Gordon talks about several times with the Batman. Best investigator ever

[@notmebeingme461]

At first I thought he only took half, but after rewatching the scene he doesn't just take the money he takes their man power as well.

[@josephpena6181]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@muhammadalifazmi8037]

That literally proves that " *Not every hero wears cape* ". "I wear a smile, big smile"

[@Alonzi.]

Well the incredible summed that up real well. Cape = airplane death

[@babygenjo5714]

UrbanRose cape = 0 sight

[@lovrohabus3548]

ah yes allmight

[@jacksonstein809]

Not every cape wears a hero.

[@JeskaDax]

What if a kitchen apron is just a cape worn backwards - and the heroic feat is feeding people that are hungry?

[@alexyandfriends]

In alfred’s story he makes Colonisers sound like the good guys while ignoring what they were really doing. Damn

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

Alexy AND Friends Not even ignoring it. Being totally matter-of-fact about it.

[@liquidphilosopher1816]

@Manuel Camelo Satan would agree with you

[@SkarletteD]

I was thinking about it, and through that, it really wouldn't be hard to pull comparisons to what's happening in Gotham to real life gentrification you know, making things look good and doing very superficial fixes but leaving the impoverished behind and comparing gentrification to colonization and idk how well it actually stands within the movie, but an interesting thought none-the-less.

[@someweirdo1486]

"You can't see yourself as the villain, when you think you're the hero"

[@music79075]

Alfred's story?

[@AaronLakes-ge9su]

My opinion he was the hero and Batman is fighting anarchy, escalation, and the important villain his ego so when that is dealt with he rises to be the hero Gotham needs again 🤟🤘🤟🤘😎❤

[@Daniel-jk6ve]

A major problem is that Batman never suggested retiring in Dark Knight. He became more vigilante (and violent against even the cops) than ever. Joker forced Batman to come down to his level.

[@me-myself-i787]

He did suggest retiring. He said to Rachael something along the lines of, "Harvey Dent is going to stop Gotham's criminals, and then they will no longer need me."

[@NostalgiaMan]

Dang this was a good look at this movie. I like the Joker more and more as time goes on.

[@lakers4life71]

Front page comment

[@herbnfizz4113]

idk why, i hated Batman ever since the first movie came and now i have my reasons

[@jayjaygaming8625]

You’re the guy that always comments on SSSniperwolf’s videos!

[@brodybingham6808]

all my joker videos I watched today you were there.

[@luthfeesenpai4933]

@@brodybingham6808 cmon man good thing he wasn't key epic

[@lordcorgi6481]

"Most of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions."

[@saliheygoren]

İt seems good intentions isn't enough

[@fellowpassenger_54-67]

@@saliheygoren true, but what is enough are good intentions and the will to uphold and go about those good intentions in the right way

[@rebelcybran5850]

Dr. Grant : With the best intentions? Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.

[@Ray-ly9lj]

Even with good intentions or not, ppl can still cause catastrophes and lead to more

[@michaelmiller6050]

@Ryan Alex just about to elude to that myself

[@SasuNaruL0vR80]

My favorite Joker moment in Dark Knight was when he's talking to Batman saying "When the chips are down, these "civilized " people? They'll eat each other." Which is actually more true than most think; we act civilized but when everything goes to sh*t, as we see in almost every apocalypse-type movie, people turn on one another. It's self preservation at its core.

[@mranderson8401]

Honestly I'm gonna say this theory might actually be better than the movie itself Like having a twist that the Batman is the evil one it's a type of story I like I've grown up watching Batman And I've very few times been surprised by scary movies regular movies I could predict movies that I know nothing about see a little bit of a movie and predict the ending so this theory is actually amazing and I love it it actually brought a smile to my face thank you

[@marsagul846]

Ra’s al Ghul: Gotham is incurable. Joker: Hold my beer.

[@beasbiswas90]

The one who turned the like count to 101!

[@OK11_]

* hold my smile

[@joshuapooner4142]

More like hold my gasoline.

[@ThreesiXtydegreeS]

More like hold my pencil, the Joker doesn't drink

[@arcguardian]

@@ThreesiXtydegreeS he drank at the rich ppl event.

[@blazeofglory4053]

Film Theory: The Joker is actually Megamind.

[@nixian_zwaylus]

noted.

[@thekrazyhatter5063]

Oh no you dinit

[@1Weirdo]

The joker is actually John Wick one of the mob there once saw him kill a guy with a pencil.

[@thekrazyhatter5063]

@@1Weirdo oh hell no disrespecting the joker like that No you dinit

[@1Weirdo]

@@thekrazyhatter5063 All it takes is 3 bad movies.

[@Pureevilcapitalistgoatman]

"Gasoline is cheap" Oh the irony

[@otrenigmaandy7443]

I have always loved the character of the Joker, and I love this video and theory! An awesome breakdown of those 2 Batman movies. Love the channel Mat Pat

[@WEJones144]

I like the fact that dogs are the opening example of escalation by the bad guys and later on the joker describes himself as a dog

[@InitialPC]

oooo good catch

[@lskdjfaksjdf6923]

I too like dogs :)

[@nikkinewbie6014]

Yeah - that Dude at the beginning is like “My dogs are hungry!” Part of Joker’s world view is that people have a dog eat dog mentality. Joker set out to prove that people will destroy others to protect their own best interests and there is no social responsibility to community. Batman’s / Bruce’s contention is that there are still good people in Gotham - like the vast MINORITY 😕 of the Gothamites on the boat that voted against blowing up the criminals. And there are some good police as Gordon remains unfailingly selfless throughout the Trilogy. There’s also the scene where Joker threatens to cut that same mobster up into little pieces and feed him to his hungry pooches which again signifies the point that the dogs will not be loyal to their master when push comes to shove. It’s a pretty descriptive graphic 😳. One wonders if he did exactly that. Either way, Joker has those dogs working for him at the end in the skyscraper when he sics them on Batman. Even the police have their dogs that chase Batman after he tells Gordon to “call it in”. At that point I’m reminded of exactly what you said about Joker comparing himself to a dog chasing cars - so it’s almost like the Joker is personified by those police dogs which have switched loyalties like their masters as they chased Batman to his Batpod - and into that eight year long retirement. Joker won. Yeah Nolan has a whole “dog eat dog / there’s no such thing as real, lasting loyalty” motif going on in this movie. It’s brilliant because humanity already accepts that a dog can be and most often is the MOST unquestionably loyal form of life on the planet - but you have the Joker subverting that idea and putting humanity on trial by saying we’re no better than a pack of hungry dogs. So why should Batman be putting himself out for Gotham? That’s what Joker is basically saying to him in the interrogation room at MCU.

[@dashspeed9523]

Theorists 2 seconds after this post: Dogs are people are the same?

[@brianmcdonald7017]

Also how he puts his head out of the car window like a dog.

[@leejohnstone3051]

The Joker: people are happy when everything goes to plan. No matter how horrifying the plan is

[@MySerpentine]

He's not wrong

[@leejohnstone3051]

@@MySerpentine The Joker: if I was to kill a gang banger or blow up a truck full of soldiers nobody says anything but one ole mayor gets killed. Everybody loses there minds. Me: that's a clever for the scenes where you have one boat full of prisoners and the other boat full of innocent people. If the innocent people blows up to boat full of prisoners nobody will say anything but if the prisoners blows up the boat full of innocents then everyone loses there minds. There is method in the Joker's madness

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Lee Johnstone That is exactly what it is. The Joker is a genius, even if he is extremely sickening.

[@leejohnstone3051]

@@angelmendez-rivera351 his plan to clean up Gotham was sickening but it worked. The Joker also show Batman in order to make Gotham crime free you must kill otherwise what's the point. You can't clean up the city without breaking a few eggs

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Lee Johnstone Exactly. I think the thesis of the movie is that sometimes, there is no good, ethical choice to be made to fix the problems, and not fixing them is not any more ethical either.

[@AstralEmpyrea]

MatPat: *says the joker's real intent* The Joker: finally. Finally someone understands me.

[@josephpena6181]

😂😂😂😂

[@nickgates4259]

13 years, 50 rewatches, and dozens of analysis videos later im still finding new ways to think about this movie

[@TheXman779]

If Heath Ledger survived, not only he would've been in "The Dark Knight Rises" but the theory of him being a the real hero of Gotham probably would've been explored.

[@alext399]

it probably would’ve been like in Joker 2019, where he has a bunch of followers

[@volbound1700]

He was supposed to be in the Dark Knight Rises in some form. I think he was connected to League of Shadows. Surprised there isn't movie theories about that.

[@jeux2322]

@@alext399true I reckon we would of got a scene of people in joker masks rioting at the end of the movie

[@Oddgamer0917]

@@volbound1700tdk rises was amazing but it still had some issues and sadly most of them were because of the unexpected death of heath ledger. They had work with what they could.

[@Ty-vj4wg]

@@volbound1700I heard the plot would stay the same but when Bane frees all the criminals from jail, Joker would become the second main villain.

[@pixelflip7200]

So jokers story is like a twisted version of handsome jacks

[@cb-bz1wy]

I just said the same thing 😂🤘

[@Holsp]

Don't you mean Joe?

[@primusprinplup1352]

Holsp Joseph Mother

[@jpowel]

@@Holsp Yeah, he probably meant Joe. By the way, did you hear Joe has ligma?

[@roboknightt04]

Whats that story about?

[@FranzForde]

Matt: Game theory? I love that show! Me: I know you do.

[@sighenel6038]

I think it's almost obvious that batman and the villains wanted the same thing: peace! It's just that batman doesnt want the villains' harsh methods. The villains were harsh but effective. Batman was sympathetic but has slow progress. This has been shown in the movies multiple times everytime batman doubts himself.

[@darencolby1916]

At first I was like “eh kinda stretching on this one but I really like it” Then you busted out the Alfred connection and my mind was blown

[@salade5324]

yeah the part about burning the forest makes total sense

[@cfdaboss882]

I don't get it .-.

[@braxat52]

There is a point to make on the "throwing them away" part though. They were using the gems to bribe the local leaders, which means the gems had to have a certain value within their society. If you were just throwing them away as stones, handing it to childrens as trinkets, etc, you could very well end depreciating their relative value to the point were they would mean nothing to the leaders Alfred was trying to bribe. There is a certain anime called "C: The power of soul and possibility control" that uses a somewhat similar plot at a certain point. Some characters gather a shitton of local currency and start dropping it in the middle of cities from choppers, unloading it on stores, etc. This causes markets and the local population to panic, to the point their local currency devaluates to 0 as everyone tries to exchange their currency into foreign ones fearing some kind of foul play (which was indeed being caused by some random magic stuff happening in the background too, but both go hand-in-hand).

[@montycantsin8861]

@Andrew Cox I was buying in to the theory, until you pointed out the other plot points. You're totally correct and this Film Theory is bunk. Gotham's (and batman's) justice was slow and seemed ineffective, but it never committed the moral wrong of hurting the innocent to get things done. That moral wrong remained on the mob. And the Joker just went crazy with the cheeze whiz in that regard. He didn't care who he hurt. The scene where joker murders the fake batman vigilante (in hockey pads) on video, which he then sends to the news, and THEN drops the guys corpse on a rope outside the window of the Mayor's office, that illustrates the utterly amoral behavior of the joker.

[@Goole1947]

@Andrew Cox Joker wanted the mob as well as Batman gotten rid of. As stated the existence of Batman made the mobs stronger to fight for the police. Therefore he had to rob the bank and begin his whole elaborate plan to cure Gotham once and for all of both of them. It would be easy for Batman to stop the mobs but who's to say criminals wouldn't come back stronger because Batman still exists.

[@ErikfromEarth]

Plot twist: The Joker was wearing hockey pads the whole time.

[@jaidahweaver3439]

*what gives you the right?!*

[@flo-vs6kq]

i dont get what that should mean

[@LauWo]

Vastly underrated comment @ErikfromEarth xD

[@formedmilitia1880]

flo then obviously you haven’t seen the movie

[@abic9048]

I’M NOT WEARING HOKEY PADS

[@geepantoja7287]

I love listening to this content keep up the good work, ya definitely been doing ya homework

[@vivo-df3gq]

"To defeat evil,you must became greater evil" :lelouch

[@orlenespinal5788]

“Every villain is the hero of his own story”

[@panickbutton7010]

I mean i can think of at least 10 villains that are far from heroes of their story

[@rookieluffy1758]

Handsome Jack's words echoing every where If you think about it jack was the same too he wanted to cleanse pandora

[@cigame249]

Trust me my friend, when you said that you will got -70% ppl said "oh the hero who burn city" -30% joking on you

[@lordwar4585]

@@panickbutton7010 list them here

[@Oscar-vi4uf]

YOU'RE THE BANDIT, AND I'M THE GODDAMN HERO!

[@stray999]

MatPat: “Joker is the hero of Gotham” FBI: 👀

[@israelherrera4037]

69 : so did you hear about joker

[@zelno9579]

@AMIR HAKIM MUDA HASIBUAN 2014 i speak london

[@toxint]

Zelno that's absolutely beautiful xD

[@scarletthread4921]

“Wait, that’s illegal”

[@Nichodo]

@AMIR HAKIM MUDA HASIBUAN 2014 FBI OPEN UP!

[@ashim3607]

I have a theory, if Dark Knight part 1 was about league of Shadows, part 3 was about league of shadows then maybe part 2 was also about league of shadows. Maybe joker was a member of League of shadows and trying to do the leagues work in his own way. But after joker failed, the league went back to their original method in part 3. Maybe his exceptional hand to hand fighting skills that we see at certain scenes was taught to him by the league.

[@deltacharlieecho4732]

I want to make this point, being an agent of chaos doesn't mean that you're chaotic. The joker operates as an agent of chaos in hopes that returning to a chaotic state will force Gotham to define what is really valuable when defining your systems of order. Joker is a true anarchist, understanding that chaos is a natural state that allows for the natural development of order; and also understanding that order for the sake of order leads to a general state of unrest and social chaos. Where most characters in the batman universe are absolutists, joker is a relativist and he understands that you can't have a healthy world without both chaos and order.

[@CharleyBSmith]

Alfred's story kinda sounds like a discount robin hood

[@Valencetheshireman927]

I think the story was more to do with Burmese poverty rather than colonialism.

[@hiss7024]

He doesn't hand them out to kids tho. He dumps them in the river. Alfred saw some kid holding one of the stones, that the kid found in the river.

[@ninjaturtles4348]

HISS even better remove the stones entirely from the economy

[@yevenlu3243]

Funny thing. I'm Burmese. Hah.

[@laurituomiaro2050]

Great, now I love Heath Ledger's joker even more.

[@jamesmartinez9377]

Was this a complaint or a compliment?

[@khajiitkorner918]

@@jamesmartinez9377 I believe it was sarcastic complaint, more as a joke than as an actual bad thing

[@jamesmartinez9377]

@@khajiitkorner918 i was expecting an r/wooosh

[@khajiitkorner918]

@@jamesmartinez9377 nope I'm not like that unless the person in being overly ignorant or a jerk. Which you are not being, have a nice day.

[@jamesmartinez9377]

@@khajiitkorner918 thank you

[@calebtylershepherd21]

I often wander if Phoenix’s Joker was locked up in that insane asylum the entire time, and nothing that occurs during that movie ever actually happened. Perhaps his mother had him committed, and Thomas Wayne had something to do with signing off on it. So he’s locked up in a padded room for such a long time that he in-visions a story in his mind of revenge that paints him as an antihero, that the public embraces. Then, the therapist at the end asks what’s so funny? That’s when he says the infamous line “You wouldn’t get it”. Think there’s a few people who have touched on that idea. I think it’s an interesting way to rewatch it with that in mind. To me that’s what makes a great film when you can read into it different ways. Films like the Shinning, and such. Anyhow, great content. I’ve thought of this way of looking at the Dark Night as well. These movies have such great rewatch-ability for the many different ways you can choose to view it.

[@CruddySpark115]

“See I’m not a monster…I’m just ahead of the curb”