The Battle of Surigao Strait Part 1 with Jon Parshall and Tony Tully-Episode 326

This week Seth and Bill are joined by great buddy Jon Parshall and Jon's co-author and new guest, Tony Tully! The foursome break down the early stages of the Battle of Surigao Strait during The Battle of Leyte Gulf and get into the commanders, the ships and the PT attack before breaking for next week's showdown of the big guns. Tune in and get into the weeds with the guys.
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[@docspacedad]

Bill, Seth, Jon, AND Tony? Let’s gooooo

[@jeffburrell7648]

I know you have limited time to make these episodes but the byplay and interjections of "minor" details that lengthen them bring the battle alive. Thanks to all of the participants for their willingness to share their knowledge.

[@markseyman490]

My good neighbour "Derby" Ray Munroe was a gunners mate on HMAS Shropshire, actually loading the battery during this battle. He said that the radar on the Shropshire was the best there was at the time, it gave them an edge and kept them safe. HMAS Shropshire was a replacement for the Canberra, which was badly damaged by the Japanese attack, at Savo Island but actually sunk by U.S. torpedoes. "Derby" sailed on HMAS Shropshire from its refit at Chatham docks through the Solomons , Leyte, all the way to Tokyo Bay. Thank you for giving the Shropshire a mention, I know Ray was proud to serve on her.

[@vicmclaglen1631]

I exchanged a few letters with Mac Gregory several years ago; he was a junior deck officer at the time on Canberra, and said he was able to step off the deck directly onto the destroyer USS Blue some time after the battle. She wasn't sunk in the action, of course, but was ordered to be scuttled the following day.

[@warrenklein7817]

I wonder why Canberra wasn't run aground and left as an unsinkable gun platform to defend Guadalcanal from the frequent bombardments.

[@vicmclaglen1631]

@@warrenklein7817Perhaps unsinkable, but still certain to have been blown to pieces. After the beating that had been sustained, the right choice was made here at the time.

[@williamcoolidge9884]

I just finished watching The Bloody Hundredth. About 12 minutes in I heard a familiar voice--and then he appeared--Seth Paridon!

[@ColinFreeman-kh9us]

I swear the boys here could yap for the next few days straight and I would still be glued to their presentation. Nice touch withTony, outstanding effort as usual Seth. From Australia

[@richardbennett1856]

Episode 123. This one is up there with the Guadalcanal series.

[@ralphregan1473]

Seth, Bill, Jon, Tony and other assorted guest lecturers: thank you for giving us the modern day version of Victory at Sea (Pacific War), with all the nerd details collected since the war! This will be a treasure for future generations of when the United States was at its peak in cohesion, manufacturing and education. I’m always amazed at how the US Navy was able to teach millions of American men mathematics to do their jobs in aviation, navigation, radar and gunfire, but today believe two plus two doesn’t always equal four. Thanks again!

[@jeffreybaker4399]

I was beginning to think that Tony was a figment of Jon's imagination. Really looking forward to this episode.

[@byronnewman8906]

Happy to see Jon Parshall and Tony Tully. Tony Tully is Coauthor with Jon Parshall of Shattered Sword and partner of the web site "combined fleet" which I have spent many hours viewing.

[@petestorz172]

"Combined Fleet" is an excellent website about the IJN! The uncredited (Tony?) article about the comparative industrial capacity/output is classic and jaw-dropping.

[@warrenhunter4686]

​@@petestorz172q qt

[@davekrab3363]

Yet another classic for the ages. Kudos, gentlemen. Lest We Forget. 🦀 🇦🇺 ✌️

[@ColinFreeman-kh9us]

Go Aussie

[@johnstewart7022]

It's so great to see Tony as well as Jon. I'm still speechless after reading "Shattered Sword".

[@spikespa5208]

I reread it about once a year.

[@joangibson859]

Wonderful. As Regent of the Woodburn Chapter WVDAR in Morgantown, WV, it was my/our honor to nominate Forest Jackson (Jack) Bowman for the NSDAR's Historic Preservation Medal a year ago. As WVU Student Body President in 1959, Jack learned of the soon scrapping of the USS West Virginia (Mountaineer Battlewagon, WeeVee). He contacted the Navy to get "something significant" for the WVU campus. They offered the mast, but stipulated that we were responsible to get it from Washington state to Morgantown, WV. After a lot of phone calls and the help of US Senator Randolph and Congressman Staggers, the B&O RR agreed to ship it for free. It arrived in Morgantown on March 17, 1961, but was not erected until May, 1963 (the end of my freshman year). Not only did Jack receive the award, but the NSDAR President General asked that she present it to him on the opening night of the DAR's 132nd Continental Congress on the stage on Constitution Hall in Washington, DC. It happened. The mast stands sentinel over the downtown campus. Every Pearl Harbor Day, a ceremony is held at the mast . That mast has served to keep the story of the USS West Virginia alive in the State. The bell near the mast is from the first USS West Virginia, renamed the Huntington, to free up the name. This ship's bell is in Charleston, WV.

[@jayjohnson9996]

No you guys didn’t just leave me hanging like that. You telling me that I have to wait another week to hear how part 2 of the battle went. It’s a good thing that I already know the outcome of this battle because you guys would have had me in the hospital with all this anticipation. Let me stop I love you guys for what you do because I’m also a geek and I love to hear and read about the United States pacific naval battles. Y’all doing a fabulous job and please keep up the good work. I am definitely your # 1 fan from day one!!!

[@slimeydon]

Awesome episode as always! Welcome Tony. I come for Jon's shirts and stay for the history.

[@richardbennett1856]

I watch for the wallpaper. Great to have Tony. Now we know The Rest of the Story.

[@flparkermdpc]

So YOU are the author of that clever quip linking shirts and history. My tee shirt drawer does that, too.

[@GeraldChildress-cr6kt]

My dad was a seaman first class on the WeeVee and was there. Really enjoyed this podcast.

[@richardbennett1856]

This is the definition of naval nerding out. I want more. This is up there with Episode 123, So glad that Tony joined ya'll. Open Fire!!!

[@Iamkcs2c]

Guys 1:03:40 - Tony illustrates (as a normal part of conversation) one of the things I love about content from true historians - he acknowledges the difficulties in interpreting things. He has (a translation of) the record, but warns not to assume that the record / translation is definitive. The translation could be vague, or use idiosyncatic language, or the guy who wrote it could have been wrong. So much depth in the content you provide, explaining why things happened and the larger situation. Like last weeks discussion of center force lacking aircover (which i had heard before) and putting in the context of massive air losses during the air battle of formosa that caused the shortage

[@mikebryant2900]

Jesse Coward was skipper of USS Sterrett during the Barroom Brawl off Guadalcanal. He learned that lesson firsthand in the world’s toughest classroom.

[@v.mwilliams1101]

Always look forward to Tuesday mornings but this week is going to be very long. Thank you for Sharing and to Tony for joining in.

[@annrn6148]

I couldn't agree more. I wanted to wait until next week, so I watch the 2 episodes back-to-back. But I couldn't wait 😏

[@mollybell5779]

Finally got around to reading Shattered Sword. What an excellent, well written, comprehensive book. And it's a thrill that you have both the authors sharing their knowledge with us. Great show, as always. Can't wait for part 2, next week. 😁❤

[@smanderville1]

Wonderful guys! I can't wait for the next episode!

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

Gentlemen always a pleaure to see your outstanding content.

[@Jpdt19]

This is going to be so good. Thank you so kuch Bill, Seth, John and Tony!!!

[@joerainey4460]

Best cliffhanger yet in an episode. I was chomping at the bit, waiting for the cruisers and battleships to go and I get cut off and Seth says tune in next week. Left me hanging. I may get up at four in the morning to look at next Tuesdays episode.

[@jayjohnson9996]

Man I know how you feel!!!!

[@jayjohnson9996]

Man I know how you feel.

[@saenole66]

Surface action with PTBoats, destroyers, cruisers and battleships wow! Can’t wait until next episode.

[@Thumpalumpacus]

So glad to see Tully here too! Welcome aboard, Tony.

[@michaelhollman9470]

Merch idea - authentic Jon Parshall shirts!

[@Jpdt19]

I'd buy one!

[@annrn6148]

🤣🤣 I'd buy one & wear it proudly!

[@wadeenyart9676]

Seth, Bill, Jon, and Tony. A great episode. The way you all interact, play off one another, and respect each other along with your knowledge of the subject and the unbridaled enthuseasm each of you show made the hour and eight minutes go by like 10 minutes i couldnt believe it had already been an hour. I absolutly cant wait for next week to get here. I agree with another commenter who said yet another classic for the ages. Kudos, gentlemen. This will be a treasure for future generations. TY for preserving our history in this manner. PS This was my introduction to Tony and I am a instant fan of his, bought his book while i watched the episode!!!

[@ALRIGHTYTHEN.]

Revenge is also quite delicious when it's served piping hot.

[@christopherj.osheav5807]

Holy smokes! All hail to Jesse O and his bad boys. Gripping, fast paced, informative dialogue. Another terrific episode. Thanks for the memories.

[@petestorz172]

The IJN had a design philosophy what they would usually/normally be smaller in number, and thus needed each ship to be qualitatively superior. so, e.g. the Fusos were 23 Kn when the usual battleship speed was 21 Kn (except for the Queen Elizabeths). The Fusos had twelve 14" guns when ten was more common (until the USN Pennsylvania and following 14" classes). The Fusos' secondaries were 6" where the USN BBs had 5"/51s. Fast-forward to WW2, the Fusos and following class Ises were too slow to steam with IJN carriers. Had the Fusos stayed with the "Center Force", they would have slowed it significantly. So detaching Fuso and Yamashiro made sense on that level. Very glad to see/hear Tony. His book is excellent and very recommendable!

[@klsc8510]

This and Taffy 3 are the naval battles from the Pacific that I love the best!

[@expertmarksman16]

Yes! I kindly pray you cover the WV action report of the battle, yes, I mean the part where it’s actually written in the log how the gunnery officer “chuckled” reporting the first salvo hits.

[@fredhayes145]

My uncle, a chief radar technician, was aboard USS Phoenix at this battle. Unfortunetely, I didn't learn this until after his passing.

[@ph89787]

I've been listening to this particular battle on the audible version of Vincent O'Hara and Trent Hone's book Fighting in the Dark: Naval Combat at Night 1904-1944.

[@MrFrikkenfrakken]

As a Louisvillian thank you Bill for the mention of CL/CA-28, very proud of her service. Great show guys.

[@davemurphy7126]

Holy cow what a line up!!!!

[@anselmdanker9519]

Great presentation thank you 😊

[@tonybanke3560]

Getting more people involved. Nice!!!

[@brushhogg1]

Ooooh nooo! To Be Continued.... like when Pappy on Baa Baa Blacksheep had to land on Bouganville with malaria. Dammit Seth I was on the edge of my seat...😢

[@scottgiles7546]

You want it to be over already???? (Those are the choices after all)

[@brushhogg1]

Some of these unauthorized podcasts really get me going, with Seth and Bill telling it, I can see it happening and I get overly excited, my wife worries about it....

[@user-hw1qo2mu9e]

This is awesome thank you Bill Seth Jon and Tony.

[@dummre83]

Damnit. I have to wait a week.

[@liberalsockpuppet4772]

Been watching older episodes. Bill, glad your voice and breathing seem better.

[@txtifosi]

Tony is my son’s godfather. What a special talent he and Jon possess and share.

[@ianando9459]

They know what they are talking about. Interesting historians . For you Yanks earlier in the Pacific war the SW in 1942 in Midway and Bismark Sea saved AUS . The blood and treasure expended hasn't been forgotten . Hence AUS went from UK to USA focus from 1942 onwards Hence your closest ally since From AUS

[@barrygeekler6458]

Always outstanding, thank you Gents!

[@michaelcoe9824]

Another Thankyou from Oz.

[@gordonbutler5142]

Casually adding the world's leading expert on the subject at hand is quite the flex for this podcast/channel.

[@DickVanaria-wo9jg]

Good afternoon. All your podcasts are fantastic. I have learned so much from them. Two of my friends think the same. Thank you for being patriotic

[@riftraft2015]

Another great episode guys. 👍 Seth, Bill, Jon, & Tony.😊 🇺🇸 Thank you. 🇺🇸

[@billechols7136]

Great show gentlemen.

[@mxrc179]

This team only gets better. Kudos, men, on your alliance with such great experts on your show! You never cease to amaze me also with you candor, humor, and humility.

[@ph89787]

Funny story. I had a mini-reenactment of this battle on World of Warships with my Fuso charging the opposing team's West Virginia. It went about as well as expected. Also for the air attack earlier. Enterprise: Hey Mogami, long time no see. Mogami: OH GOD WHY?!?!?!?

[@richardbennett1856]

Not again!! Look, the Luck Vampire is nearby. This won't end well, boys!

[@Perfusionist01]

Again, a really fine episode. Thanks! The biggest lesson for me was the Japanese command structure. Most previous descriptions of this action treat Shima sa a follow-on to the Southern Force and Shima comes off as incompetent for his actions. I'm really looking forward to next week!

[@ald1144]

Last time I was this early Nishimura still had all his ships.

[@richardmardis2492]

Daylight savings is finally working for me in Arizona, you start an hour earlier- I can finish an episode before work👍

[@evanl8656]

YES. IT'S HERE.

[@Big44mag]

Great group. Best history talks I have listened to!! Thank you all

[@davidwatson2399]

Fantastic 😍

[@davidbrian2570]

Just beginning to watch from SC. I have a suggestion for a future show or two....WW2 was the most captioned war with photographs. Many of these photographs many of us who seen them over the years, have no idea whom some of these Marine's and soldiers were? Many photo's some very famously seen through last 70+ years, there is no name, did they survive, units, campaign's etc... I'm sure Seth has a lot of insight on many of these photographs of the unknown (to us) and it would be so awesome to put names with the faces.

[@vincentthurman8472]

Jon's shirts are amazing! Lol...puts a smile on my face or as the captain says "makes my heart flutter"! Btc/sw retired

[@jimb9063]

Brilliant, thank you. Got to agree with Jon, love the look of IJN ships, and the names, and....

[@christophermancini7380]

I've been looking forward to the gang's discussion of Leyte Gulf, especially this show and next week(presumably) on the Battle off Samar. I have always heard that naval tacticians' ideal situation was to "cross the T"where you can bring all of your guns to bear broadside while the enemy can only engage with his bow guns. I'm not aware of too many occasions where this happened since the age of sail? What in my opinion made this battle especially compelling was that most of Oldendorf's battle line were Pearl Harbor survivors, such as the battleships West Virginia, California, Tennessee, Maryland and Pennsylvania. However, Nimishura's fleet was already heavily damaged by the torpedoes of the pincer of destroyers, the Mark 15 torpedoes finally working.

[@Dynasty0612]

Next week is the Battleship showdown of Surigao Strait. Samar is in two weeks. I think.

[@sulevisydanmaa9981]

1) VELLA GULF 2) SURIGAO 3) Jutland

[@brendanlowrey4248]

The highlight of my week!

[@caifrank7425]

Surigao Strait Battle 1944 Pennsylvania BB-38 , Tennessee BB-43 , California BB-44 , Maryland BB-46 , WestVirginia BB-48 and Mississippi BB-41 Vs Fuso and Yamshiro : the Last greatest and biggest Dreadnoughts Battle during the History !!! 5 old WW1 US Dreadnoughts saved at Pearl after 1941 , and Repairing , Updating all of them , that's Unbelieveable Miracle in just 2 or 3 years during the War , looks like two different ships between 1941 and 44 , but all of those 5 old Pearl Dreadnoughts were the Same Ship hull , which means FDR have a very powerful WarShips Repairing and Updating technology during the WW2 , isn't it ? （ and just thinking about the USS Yorktown CV-5 repaired in 3 days under the Nimitz order for the Midway 42 , why the US navy have such a so powerful ship Recovering Tech during the WW2 , I don't understand about it for a long time ）Surigao Strait 1944 , it's the Greatest Naval Art by Admiral Oldendorf , just like another Classic Jutland in the Pacific WW2 , Well Done Admiral !!!!!

[@stevewindisch7400]

Excellent episode, as we are used to by now :) Especially cool for those children of the 1960's like me who joined "The Cult of the PT Boat" back when their exploits and ideal of incredibly brave, swashbuckling, non-conforming sailors captured the naval popular culture. In later years we realized their actual victories were not as numerous as the movie and TV hype made us believe... But what could equal that anyway? And the amazing examples of courage remain.

[@Ralph-yn3gr]

You know, this is one of the only battles I can think of where a destroyer does what destroyers were built to do: protect a force of battleships operating in coastal waters from enemy torpedo boats. Even 50 years later *Shigure* charging around pinning PT boats with searchlights and driving them off with gunfire worked exactly as Admiral Fisher envisioned it would.

[@davidlavigne207]

Wonderful discussion by all of the participants. I wanted to comment on Bill's mention of a turning movement in relation to a land battle. I think the Japanese plan was more akin to a trait of many of Napoleon's battles. He often would engage the enemy flanks with turning movements in the hope of weakening the center. Then he would launch a coordinated assault on the center, such as he tried at Waterloo. The "Center Force" of Kurita being the naval version of the "Old Guard" moving in for the decisive attack on the "weakened center" to deliver the coup de grace. That's my humble opinion. I appreciate that Bill thinks outside the box though for a former submariner. Good work by all. Can't wait for part two!

[@SmedleyDouwright]

Jon continues with shirt excellence.

[@petestorz172]

Great hairstyle and facial upholstery, too!

[@MichaelWalker-de8nf]

🤘🏻Metal as always, fellas ♥️

[@Gregolec]

John, you're 300% center bullseye with pagoda kink!

[@OMMgreenshirt]

I have and read Mr. Tully's book "Battle of Surigao Strait" several times and it is a great read. What is also great is to listen to the author speak about his book. In my view it makes the experience more special. Thanks again!

[@williamharvey8895]

As a former FC, I just loved the need talk of magnetrons, and klystrons, radar ranges. It was beautiful ❤

[@patrickherbert1651]

A good old fashioned cliffhanger! I can’t wait until next week. Fantastic education and wonderful entertainment.

[@jammininthepast]

Thank you for your terrific pod. Bringing us both authors of "Shattered Sword", Mr. Tully and Mr. Parshall, is an excellent source for this compelling history. Seth, Captain Toti, Jon and Tony thank you for sharing all of your hard work with us. Side note: I've read "Shattered Sword" twice and pull it out for reference. Superb book. Great show, much appreciated.

[@carrabellefl]

Thanks! Another eager anticipated Tuesday

[@lagoodman3349]

Thank you for a good episode.

[@mehere8-32]

Absolutely enthralling story. Thankyou from Ulladulla Australia. Arunta I believe was the first Tribal built in Australia, named after the Arunta People of Central Australia. Cheers Gentlemen.

[@michaelcoe9824]

I read many J E Macdonald novels as a teenager and I think that he called our Tribals, "young cruisers"!

[@jimrobertie8759]

Man, I could listen to you guys for hours!

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Good thing because we talk for hours.

[@kemarisite]

"Machine gun cruisers", USS Boise and Phoenix were Brooklyn-class, with five triple turrets, while Denver and Columbia were Cleveland-class with four triple turrets.

[@Steve-dg3md]

Great video guys. The PT Boats are greatly underestimated by the Japanese. 😅

[@ricardokowalski1579]

Great content

[@johnferguson1455]

PT Boats were just Friggin cool…100%

[@rfreitas1949]

Though they really sank more Japanese barges than anything else

[@Jakal-pw8yq]

​@@rfreitas1949 Considering what the Japanese use those barges for that still a pretty good accomplishment.😊

[@johnferguson1455]

@@rfreitas1949 Agreed. They were far more effective as coastal interdiction of barges and some rather daring raids than fighting large ships. They were not without their occasional successes though…😁

[@gregcollins7602]

Jon always dresses for Torpedo Tuesday. It's like he is always in the Pacific somewhere. Can't wait for part 2.

[@robertzimmerman6772]

Cliff hanger..... oh my.

[@Pilot-hr1rp]

I have a 1/350 Fuso in my living room. Those ships are outrageously beautiful and the definition of navy kink

[@Cometkazie]

Bill's maps really add a lot. Another really superior episode. At least Tony knew why a BB would have depth charges. Welcome aboard, Tony

[@cragnamorra]

Another sterling episode folks. Fun to see Tony in the mix. Really lively discussion and interaction. "Greater than the sum of its parts" is the phrase here. Great dynamic.

[@therealuncleowen2588]

I just listened to the description of the damage that the Fuso took from the Enterprises air attacks. Dear Lord but war is hell. All that damage, and yet they kept going forward. I put myself on Fuso for a moment and just tried to imagine, a bomb wipes out an entire gun crew in an enclosed space, then a depth charge goes off, spilling avgas and causing a fire. The gun crew must have been a grisly scene worthy of a lifetime of nightmares. Splashes of red blood, body parts and chunks, some unidentifiable and some probably all too identifiable blown around, the smell of burning flesh, perhaps the screams of a survivor who wished they weren't alive. Heaven knows what horrors. Sometimes I forget that scenes like that happen again and again in war and the men who witness them can't just have a drink and a nap and try to forget about it. In peacetime any event 10% that bad would be the central event of entire careers. In WW2, ships didn't even return to port sometimes after that kind of damage. I have no love for the wartime IJN, but I will concede the guts it took to keep going after that kind of "minor" damage, medium damage. Christ, there must have been a few men who saw that in their sleep for decades after and yet it's half a sentence in a narrative. "Fuso suffered minor damage from air attacks by aircraft flying off Enterprise." On a personal note, one item I'll surely never scratch off my bucket list is mentioned here when they jettisoned the burning aircraft into the sea.

[@sulevisydanmaa9981]

WERE U THERE ? VIVID VISUALIZATION ? a reincarnation ?

[@philipmorrill8636]

Great episode! 4 box looks good on you guys.

[@artisticglow7486]

My new favorite channel! Great information, really enjoy the back and forth among the participants. Everyone brings something to the table here. I never realized how badly the IJN's destroyer ranks were depleted by this point in the war, and how that negatively impacted IJN's ability to conduct offensive operations and defend the capital ships later on. Without adequate DD support, US submarines just savaged the IJN's heavies in '44: Taiho, Shokaku, Kongo, Shinano, Atago, Takao, Maya, Unryu.

[@karlr750]

I've been looking forward to this episode. There is very little information online about this particular battle.

[@brianthompson6721]

You need to read Tony's book on the battle. It's the most detailed account out there.

[@Bob.W.]

The lucky Shigure. Turns up at almost every battle.

[@sulevisydanmaa9981]

@Bob.W. finally went to davy jones' famous locker, HARA Tameichi no longer aboard; was Yahagi s capt @ Yamatos demise. Read the book if not yet. Yamato damashii !!!

[@jbatina]

My father was on the Mississippi at this time. I spend a lot of time searching for info on this battle. Thanks guys.

[@COACHWARBLE]

Jimmy Doolittle episode please!!! JON!! JON!! JON!!

[@astraltraveler2725]

Great episode!! I'm really looking forward to next week's follow up episode.

[@sailordude2094]

I'm a Navy veteran and worked on radars, I love the discussion of WW2 radar tech! Thanks! BTW, it's wild that the Commodore was once the same rate as me when enlisted, an ET. lol Thanks for the great history tales!

[@mkaustralia7136]

Love that Seth ignores New Jersey’s ineffective shots at the ships fleeing Truk in the intro. Biggest ships were cruisers!

[@davefinfrock3324]

In reference to Truk "cruisers". A training ship smaller even than the 3500t IJN light cruisers. Also, the BBs at Truk took the Japanese under fire at well over 30k yards. Chances of hitting were poor, to put it mildly. At Surigao, the main battleline opened up at around 22k yards at Yamashiro, a much different situation. WeeVee scored first salvo hits, quickly followed by Rebel T and the Prune Barge. The other old BBs didn't contribute much. Pennsylvania never had a firing solution and did not engage. Mississippi fired only one salvo at the conclusion of the action. Maryland attempted to range on WeeVee's shell splashes, but with little result. The differences in fire control between the fully modernized ships as opposed to the more lightly refitted ships was stark.

[@danielkeating1201]

Question...the wonderful music that begins each podcast...from where does the music come ?...a movie...a television series...Thanks in advance.

[@ronjkarl]

Thanks for your thorough and fun repporting.

[@73Trident]

Great episode guys. Thanks.

[@m.r.donovan8743]

I had no idea that Capt. Toti had been enlisted (which no doubt made him a much better leader as the black shoe had been on the other foot). Thanks to all four of you for a terrific episode. I really enjoyed the "nerd out" on the radar set capabilities.