The Battle of Surigao Strait Part 2 with Jon Parshall and Tony Tully-Episode 327

[@MrFrikkenfrakken]

Just a note - Lou Conter the last living Arizona survivor passed away yesterday at 102 yrs. RIP to all.

[@therealuncleowen2588]

Awww, man. That's sad.

[@observationsfromthebunker9639]

She has them all, now.

[@wrightsublette1701]

Rest In Peace Good Sir, you have done your Nation proud.

[@parrot849]

Time for a moment of silence in tribute to the passing of the last of a group of genuine warriors in the history of our republic. God speed and may we uphold everything they sacrificed to protect what we take for granted today….

[@PeterOConnell-pq6io]

Not a thumbs up or down one. May he rest in peace.

[@paularchibald7734]

Guys, please take all the time you want for these talks. The conversation is as brilliant as the script! Bravo zulu to you all.

[@keithrosenberg5486]

quote> When Mississippi discharged her twelve 14-inch guns at Yamashiro at a range of 19,790 yards, at 0408 October 25, 1944, she was not only giving that battleship the coup de grâce, but firing a funeral salute to a finished era of naval warfare. One can imagine the ghosts of all great admirals from Raleigh to Jellicoe standing at attention as [the] Battle Line went into oblivion, along with the Greek phalanx, the Spanish wall of pikemen, the English longbow and the row-galley tactics of Salamis and Lepanto. Samuel Eliot Morison

[@ricardokowalski1579]

Solid comment. Many times has the demise of some weapon system been "greatly exagerated". But there is no doubt that carriers killed the big gun battlewagons. 👍

[@mikewesner-ih7dm]

My Dad was on the Destroyer Thorn. He was asleep during the battle when his buddies came and got him. He told me they said, "Joe, Joe you have to see this. When he got topside he said it was like the Fourth of July". He was just 18. He had a book about the Thorn that looked like a high school year book. A very motivated shipmate had put it together. It was one of the few possesion he had at the end of his life when he passed in the spring of 2019. Thanks so much for this series. It means a lot.

[@RY-TIOUSRY]

🗨🚱

[@RY-TIOUSRY]

speechless

[@rembrandt972ify]

Taffy 3 had a huge advantage over Kurita's force. They had an Evans.

[@COACHWARBLE]

i emailed Seth and he sent me a wonderful reply in about 2 days. Amazing. We need a Doolittle Episode. The raid on Tokyo was 2% of his career.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Unlikely

[@aviation1776]

Parshall and Tully for the Win !!!!!! They need to start a podcast on IJN History

[@flparkermdpc]

If the Tully Parshall podcast ever takes form, call it "The Machine Gun Cruisers Speak"

[@seanquigley3605]

I'd tune in for sure....one of the areas I have a big blank space left in my WW2 knowledge base.

[@DalonCole]

I come for the great content I stay for Jon’s shirts abd wallpaper

[@miamijules2149]

Lolol Yeah, we should ask for Jon to wear increasingly trippy shirts…. see how crazy things can get.

[@TaichoCyclist]

Apprecitate the continued effort on this episode gentlemen as it signed off the last major gun battle of WW2.

[@m.r.donovan8743]

Gentlemen, I know that I'm just one more voice added to the litany of kudos and thanks, but here's my note of genuine gratitude to you all for doing this very important work. Bless you all for continuing to enthrall us with the heroism of those who were there.

[@joebombero1]

So much bad news coming in our world and you guys post this! Many thanks from the Philippines (retired from Texas). Like a cool drink of sweet iced tea on a blistering hot day. Many thanks for all you do. Quick shout out for the USS Grampus, Captained by my mother's cousin Robert Pollack Guiler, the rock star of their family. On eternal patrol.

[@ralphregan1473]

Welcome back men. Set, Bill, Jon and Tony; hope y’all had a Blessed Easter! Thanks again for your hard work.

[@michaelwaldmeier1601]

The quattro demonstrate synergistic effects. The sum is greater than the individual parts. The PT boats had limited effects when considering the upgraded technology used in the Ukrainian jet-ski drones with explosives.

[@dave3156]

Finally a USN answer to the Battle of Savo Island! Great job by the DDs and their torpedoes. Thanks Seth, Bill, Jon, and Tony for an interesting and exciting two segments on this battle!

[@drlull]

Many..MANY thanks to Seth..Bill..Jon and now to our newest best bud Tony Tully for a back to back episode on one of my favorite sea battles that ive tried to study for years. So many new details brought to light its almost akin to relearning the battle all over again! Thank you all for a enlightening and most entertaining talk..Jon, Tony , I certainly hope to see you 2 gentlemen back again soon!

[@mkaustralia7136]

You guys are unbelievably cruel making us wait a whole week when you could have released your post lunch session last week. 😂😂😂😂 As usual, a great episode. Thanks so much for having Tony along too. His deep expertise shines through.

[@miamijules2149]

Agreed! Isn’t there some Constitutional prohibition against this kind of treatment?!

[@sundiver137]

@@miamijules2149 Something about "cruel and unusual punishment"?

[@McFFMICP]

Capt Toti, THANK YOU for the pronunciation correction of "Forecastle"!!

[@helenel4126]

A full broadside every 40 seconds. I'm sure the ghosts of Nelson and Jones were impressed. Thanks for correcting the pronunciation of foc'sle.

[@jetdriver]

Another awesome episode. That week long break obviously sharpened everyone up 😂. But seriously thanks to Jon and especially Tony for being a part of this.

[@stevewindisch7400]

Another great episode. Reading chapters of old books covering this battle many years before, I had gotten the false impression that the old battle wagons had done nearly all the damage with some help from the PT's. I guess that theme of "revenge" was too strong and appealing to leave to bare facts alone. But it turns out, the DD's were the prime factor for victory... as they miraculously were again the next day at Samar. Looking at the complete Leyte experience... we see the US Navy vindicated in nearly their entire force structure and makeup. Fleet subs scouting and sinking enemy major warships as was their original intent. PT boat flotillas harrying enemy formations at night, their perfect usage. Destroyers pouncing from the flanks in the dark with deadly shoals of torpedoes, and bravely charging or laying smoke in defense during the day. Cruisers and battleships crossing the "T" in a mini Jutland-style battle line. Huge successes with carrier air attacks. Everything the Navy spent so much money and resources on did what they were meant to do... except for the fast battleships who through no fault of their own, missed the bus. How much did that matter for their future in the force?

[@rrrancher1287]

The irony is the Japanese doctrine and ship design were for the kantai kessen, decisive battle. What the USN did to the IJN was exactly what the IJN pre war plans called for to defeat the USN.

[@brandonhutchins1353]

Yessss been waiting 7 long days for this.... glad to see you guys are stretching out the leyte episodes

[@Stew-kv8nw]

You can tell that these four gents thoroughly enjoyed doing the last two episodes. Well done. I highly recommend Tony’s book on the battle- good and well written read.. I also wholly endorse the veiled shots at Halsey at the end. Nice Segway to the next set of videos

[@Jakal-pw8yq]

I was just looking at my phone, couldn't sleep, and lo and behold! I forgot, it's Torpedo Tuesday! Thank you guys so much for all the hard work that you put into these broadcasts for us all! 🇺🇲⚓️💯👍

[@TheBurr75]

Torpedo Tuesday I'm stealing that😂😂

[@Jakal-pw8yq]

​@TheBurr75 Well, I stole it from somebody else, so it's all yours, dude! I thought it was a pretty good title, so maybe we should suggest it to Seth and his boys!🇺🇸⚓️💯😉

[@mehere8-32]

Thank you Gentlemen, an enlightening discussion. Cheers from Ulladulla Australia.

[@grathian]

Awesome post, Tully's book on Surigao is a must read. But... 1:07:45 "Do you want to be fighting Yamato in Pennsylvania?" I don't either, but because Yamato was designed specifically to withstand hits in her vitals from these particular BBs, and to penetrate them at any range. Your reasons cited (ammo state and fire control) are red herrings. Even after Surigao, while they were certainly low on ammo, they had enough for another surface engagement - certainly far more than they expended in the action just completed. Czarnecki on NAVWEPS cites Morrison to the effect that remaining ammo was: WV 107 AP, 175 HC; MD 192 AP, 445 HC; CA 177 AP, 78 HC; TN 327 AP, 268 HC; MS 189 AP, 543 HC; PA 360 AP, 93 HC. As for fire control, all were superior to Yamato, with either M34 or Mk19 directors, Mk8 range keepers and Mk 3 radar or Mk 8 fire control radars. Remember that it was using Mk3 with visual bearings that Washington put down Kirishima at Guadalcanal.

[@Mumakil42]

Many thanks to Mr. Tully! Loved the insight and information. Hope to see you again.

[@tonyvancampen-noaafederal2640]

I would have cringed 20 years ago at the pronunciation of some of our USN shibboleths, but Jon and Tony bring so much to the table that I have no problem giving them a pass on this one. Thank you Capt. Bill for your gentle and gracious correction. I'm also enjoying the technicalities of the BB fire control radar discussion. Even in 1985 when I was learning the basics of RADAR the Mk3, Mk8 and other radars of the period were still topics of discussion and the primary illustrations of the 'Fire Control Problem' show cased the awesome and amazing Mk1A computer. Thankyou for a great discussion!

[@toroon]

love your show. I thought I had some knowledge of WW2 history. My ignorance is constantly being exposed. Love it. Ignorance is not bliss!

[@fredhayes145]

Thanks. My uncle, CRT Thomas P Hayes, was present aboard USS Phoenix. Never talked about it to me or my father even though we were both veterans. These episodes help to fill in imporant details.

[@gregcollins7602]

Oh boy I've been waiting all week for Torpedo Tuesday! I'm thrilled to hear of Fuso true sinking. When I read Tony's book I was familiar with the breaking in half version and was really mad that this lie has been passed on for so long. Did anyone happen to catch Drachinifel yesterday? He had an great and exciting post war history of the IJN Takao. I think Jon will really like it. I had to mention Captain Toti in the comments.

[@christopherj.osheav5807]

Well done, gents. Another compelling episode. Gripping story telling.Two thumbs up. Thank you.

[@TheBruceGday]

I love, love the 1944-45 WeeVee! The thumbnail for this episode sets my heart a flutter! One of the ships I truly wish had been saved as a museum.

[@davemachoukas6175]

Another excellent presentation. Thank you, gentlemen. Bravo!

[@BlackHawkBallistic]

"the only thing Fuso was capable of rejoining, was the bottom" amazing 😂 The bit about Kirishima getting the absolute bejesus beat out of it, while mentioned before, never gets old. Good ol Willis Lee

[@Coolbreeeze5858]

Gotta thank Seth and skip and their guests for this podcast and their wealth of knowledge I have used for my “self phd” in the pacific theater. I have thoroughly enjoyed listening to you fellas.

[@dougm5341]

Perfect timing fellas. Thanks for the drop…

[@firebird7653L]

My grandpa was aboard CL46 USS Phoenix during this action and said that he recalled the Japanese shells going overhead had a rhythmic knocking sound like they were turning end over end. He remembered thinking "this is quite the show".

[@jamessimmer725]

Please don't worry about concise except in the introductions. We enjoy this as much as you do!

[@fex77k]

Amazing two episodes! I look forward to any guests you guys feature.

[@richardbennett1856]

Seth, Im so happy this is in 3 parts. Another episode to relish. Use wipes, you guys.

[@henkvandergaast3948]

As usual.. the pod of the week!

[@mithrigar]

One of your best episodes ever.

[@expertmarksman16]

They mentioned the “chuckle” … loved it all.

[@Mildly.Squeued]

As I am still reeling from Jon's shirt, I am tickled to see both Anthony and Jon are both on todays panel - go getem boys ! Damn, im 2 weeks behind, cool, got 2 more episodes then. 12:59

[@ganndeber1621]

Another excellent well presented and informative video. Nice one

[@jonrolfson1686]

Your recounting of the part played by the US Navy cruisers in the Surigao Strait fight casts a light on the Royal Navy’s attitude toward the potential danger offered by the ARA General Belgrano, formerly USS Phoenix, in 1982. As venerable as Surigao Strait fight veteran Belgrano/Phoenix was by the time of the Falklands War, the British quite properly continued to take that ship’s potential seriously.

[@philipmiller2618]

It's easy to see that Tully really gets into this kind of discussions of battles. He'd be very interesting to hear in a event. Well done.

[@dankelly2147]

The wait was well worth it! Outstanding job

[@fabiomarangon2748]

FINALLY someone explained to me what the hell happened to Fuso! I've been searching for months and I heard all kinds of different theories, from 'her magazines blew up and she broke in half' to 'several magazines blew up and she broke in three' to 'she lost all power and was dead in the water and Oldendorf's battleships dismantled her'. I had given up hope about learning what had actually happened. Thank you, people!

[@SamAlley-l9j]

Thank you Bill Seth Jon and Tony.

[@parrot849]

Another outstanding episode gentlemen, seems like you all four just get roll’n in conversation when the episode comes to it’s inevitable close. Time flies when ya hav’n fun! Personally, being retired, I could wile away a whole morning with a steaming mug of Java in y’alls silent presence, just soaking in the conversation…

[@Christopher-os7eo]

Once again gentlemen…outstanding!

[@therealuncleowen2588]

One can only imagine how long those moments waiting for the order to open fire must have seemed for the American battleships. There was some vengeance taken on this day. I can't hear of the WV without thinking of the three men trapped in a compartment for weeks as the ship lay on the bottom at Pearl Harbor. No known technology of the time could save them. How terrible and sad. May they rest in peace. Regarding revenge, i have known about the broad picture of the Pacific War since I was 11, 41 years ago. For some reason it was only about 15 years ago that I finally pictured in my mind that Pearl Harbor was strewn with sunk and damaged ships in various stages of salvage throughout the war. (I've never been there, it had simply never occurred to me, duh). Therefore the Midway task forces in particular will have sailed past all this as they headed out to confront Nagumo's force. Has here ever been a major battle fought where the need for revenge was so clearly visible to one of the forces as they salied forth?

[@garrettwood201]

Mogami is probably the single unluckiest Cruiser in history. Involved in multiple battles, largely contributes in a negative aspect to her own forces, involved in multiple collisions with friendly units that led to the loss of her own sister ship and eventually herself. Her class as a whole is one of the very few times an entire class of ships is credited with a negative kill ratio (as in she sank more friendly units than enemy).

[@richardrigling4906]

Another outstanding discussion. Thank you

[@alexkalish8288]

That was one of your best battle narratives. It was so clear and vivid. I had read of the action but now have a completely different view of this battle. It was a great execution as Grant would say.

[@johnmarlin4661]

Tuesday mormings are looked for by me to enjoy your videos and talks . Thanks guys !!

[@philb7789]

Another awesome episode. Next week is going to be EPIC!

[@mdcampbell7360]

Well done again gentlemen, I can hardly wait for the well known but always inspiring tale that next week will bring.

[@michaelwolf564]

Gentlemen. Rivetting episode. Thank you.

[@jimporter6084]

Thanks so much guys, been waiting all year for Suragua and Samar. Leyte Gulf on October 25th was their finest day.

[@sailordude2094]

Great naval history, thanks all, BZ! You mention the Desron 54 Commander named Coward. I knew of another WW2 hero named Coward, British N.C.O. Sergeant Major Charles Coward. They made a film (heavily fictionalized and humorous) called The Password is Courage, the book he authored was a great read. I wonder if that last name inspires heroism? Thanks for the detailed history all!

[@garyhill2740]

We had "fixed the s'ploders". That is an internal technical terminology used by Naval Ordnance engineers! Lol. My favorite. Another awesome episode!!! One of the greatest ironies is how beautifully the attack on the Southern Force was executed, in contrast with Halsey failing to engage the Center Force in a similar fashion.

[@RY-TIOUSRY]

WHITE WISKERS, SHATTERED RAZORS, SURIGAO STRAITS truly entertaining foursome, sharing laughter and lively commentary. This podcast perfectly captures camaraderie at its best-a wonderful showcase of friendship and educational insight.

[@RY-TIOUSRY]

Indeed.

[@RY-TIOUSRY]

Abundantly informative KZbin at its best! ty!

[@kellyhovis2090]

Every episode, I learn something new.

[@MIKE-se8ye]

Thank you gentlemen. Most excellent conversation as always.

[@denniswiemer72]

Had a number of delays in getting to watch this, but now that i have…fantastic! Thanks for bringing this.

[@CraigMommer]

Thanks for your outstanding program. I am reminded of being a teen building models of ships and waiting my chance to join the navy only to join the army instead. But in retrospect, my decision went on for thirty years, retired as a major and enjoyed my experiences. BUT, am waiting with dread your discussion of Admiral Halsey and the rest of the story. He has always been one of my hero's so try ad be kind! As I can tell you with experience, a good and sound plan often goes to hell with the first shot!

[@robertzimmerman6772]

Thanks again fellas. Well done and much appreciated.

[@Bubba-tx1vx]

Big thanks for all your efforts and time !

[@DanColley-qy3wi]

Verbose !!! That is the word you were trying to remember. No offense was ever intended. The wordy parts are the parts that contain the REALLY informative gouge. They are my favorite 7:15 parts of the podcasts. They add substance that couldn't possibly be "surplus". SEMPER FI.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Thanks, and yeah, sometimes its hard to just pull words out when you're on the spot.

[@DanColley-qy3wi]

Another choice might be "loquatious"

[@maximillianvermontsuperbik2624]

Brilliant expert analysis and discussion. TY

[@kensvay4561]

I checked the time difference between Australia Qld time and the east coast of the US because I really wanted to see the finale here. US east coast is minus 14 hours behind us so I am surprised to see this. Hurrah! Here we go!!!

[@aussiedonaldduck2854]

G'day from The Gap Brisbane, I also loved this episode.

[@v.mwilliams1101]

This week was long enough waiting for part two, but now another week for Taffy 3. Good thing Tues mornings are booked. Thank you Tony and Jon for joining in (and the wall paper who has its own presences). Excellent, as usual

[@bughunter1766]

I never thought about that before but that's a great point. Seeing them all the time would fuel that desire for revenge for a lonngg time.

[@OMMgreenshirt]

My Tuesday routine includes watching the newest episode but I must say it was great to do a Saturday binge watching episodes 326 & 327. For me it really made a difference to get the whole picture of what happened and it certainly helped making chores around the house go by quicker. Well done guys and stay the course.

[@therealuncleowen2588]

"Suddenly there was a great deal to see." Lol, the man who wrote that has the spirit of a newspaper reporter.

[@keithmoore7607]

Thanks for this Podcast gentleman. I've always been interested in history, especially WWII. I found your podcast about 6 weeks ago and have gone back and viewed every episode. Immensely educational as well as entertaining. Like many of the comments have already stated, I very much look forward to your next episode. You guys with your guests do a great job with adding new details to very familiar battles. Curious as to whether you'll transition to the ETO once you complete this series. I'm pretty sure you'll continued to have the audience.

[@jefff4848]

My father was a 5" gun crewman on the Tennessee. Im starting to think perhaps the reason he never spoke of this battle was because the DD's nearly stole the show. Well done lads

[@wgowshipping]

Oldendorf's force could have easily shifted from Surigao to the entrance of Leyte Gulf to meet Kurita. The fire control is an issue, but this would be daylight and Kurita would have to come into the Gulf in a formation akin to Nishimura. Plus, Oley had his cruisers and two destroyer squadrons that had not engaged in Surigao.

[@zedoktor979]

Very excited for this episode!

[@carrabellefl]

Thanks! Another Tuesday morning productively spent.

[@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar]

Thank you

[@Titus-as-the-Roman]

I was at staying at Carrabelle Beach in 2005 when Dennis came ashore, we only got a glancing blow, it was interesting.

[@neogoterra]

Quite looking forward to next week's episode, the battle of Samar is one of my favorite naval battles, eager to hear you cover the story about the little DE that fought like a battleship.

[@mikemartin3028]

Great episode guys. I look forward to the next one. You all have a blessed day.

[@73Trident]

Brilliant guys absolutely brilliant. Thank you for everything involved in making these episode happen.

[@KurtPellas]

You Guy´s rule, as allways.

[@genenoud9048]

Thanks Skipper, i was thinking why dont he teach them how to say it right...thank you thank you

[@josephgilorma6979]

Agreed. As an old tin can sailor I was slightly annoyed, but the good Capt Toti saved the day.

[@genenoud9048]

@@josephgilorma6979 I was starting to think that subs had a different name for it

[@thebigrisk34]

Love hearing stuff about fighting Mary never knew that it was probably Mary that hit the bridge of mogami keep up the great work

[@smanderville1]

We will cut you some slack for wearing the same clothes😂😂. After last week's cliff hanget, it is a pleasure to watch this episode. This has rapidly become one of my favorite podcasts. Keep up the great work!

[@patrickshanley4466]

Excellent guys 👍

[@brushhogg1]

Tony made a good observation in Surigao pt 1 about the Fuso and Yamashiro being the same vintage as the Texas. Anyhow, just watched a video about the Texas' experienced captain listing the ship on purpose to gain gun elevation and so pounded some valuable inland targets supposedly out of range at Normandy... very kewl

[@spidrespidre]

Great show, guys

[@matthewnewton8812]

Imagine being named Coward in the military and constantly having to prove that you’re 2x as brave as everybody else just to break even. Now contemplate the fact that this guy is known for his bravery in spite of that. Guys like him are how we won that war. I’m convinced of it. All the industrial capacity in the world means nothing if the crews you put on those ships don’t have the huge hearts that they did.

[@miamijules2149]

Yep.

[@riftraft2015]

Great show guys. 👍. Thank you.

[@parrot849]

Captain Todi, thanks for speaking up and mentioning the issue of the pronunciation of the word forecastle. Each time I hear someone say the word as it appears in text (4-castle), it’s like fingernails on a chalkboard. Same with people pronouncing marine corps as marine corpse! I wonder how these folks ever learned to verbally identify a knife? Also loved everything Tony Tully had to say during the two episodes, but…, I seemed occasionally to have a hard time hearing him. Don’t know if it was a problem with his home computer mic or that he is so soft spoken together with the fact his voice has a tendency to trail off at the end of a sentence, or just that maybe my hearing just plain sucks. Although i never have a problem hearing you, Seth, or Jon. Anyway Tony was an awesome guest; what treasure chest of information and facts concerning the subject matter.

[@vike50brian]

Great ep as always guys. Thank you!

[@waterboy6087]

iirc HMAS Shropshire and similar 8 inch RN/ RAN cruisers had ammunition which produced a large gunfire ‘flash’ which probably helped the IJN target her.

[@davidlavigne207]

Thanks for describing what was essentially revenge for all of the night fights from Savo Island onwards during the many battles off Guadalcanal. Finally the U.S. Navy had learned the lessons of night fighting and the students had at last become the masters. Thanks for correcting us land lubbers on the pronunciation of forecastle as fo'c·'sle which is how sailors refer to the forward part of the ship Captain Totti. This was a very excellent deep dive into Surigao Strait.

[@miamijules2149]

Seriously? Lol You’d think after decades of school, a couple of BAs and a damn law degree I’d come across that little tidbit but nope, never not once. Never stop learning is right…. damn right, indeed. Thanks.

[@davidlavigne207]

@@miamijules2149 You're welcome. As Stephen Maturin, the particular friend of Lucky Jack Aubrey, both the main characters in the Patrick O'Brian tales set during the days of sail says "Sailors are sadly given over to jargon." LOL

[@tomneises6178]

You guys are so awesome!

[@tracyedwards5400]

Would like to see more of Tony. He is sharp!

[@davidwatson2399]

Thanks guys 😁👍

[@raucousindignation5811]

Finally! Part 2! Hooray!