The Best 3D Games on the SEGA Saturn - Part 1

James "The SEGAHolic" takes you through the very best 3D games the Saturn has to offer. The first of a two part series covering 26 games.

[@saturnman9129]

I still love my Saturn. I know the ps1 was the big hitter , but for me it was Sega.

[@SEGAGuys]

It's a special system, it's great to see it having a renaissance in the community today. Thanks for watching!

[@urbanknish]

Every Sega Saturn launch title used 3D polygons. Anyone who claims 3D was an after-thought should not be taken seriously. Launch titles: Clockwork Knight, Daytona USA, Panzer Dragoon, Pebble Beach Golf Links, Virtua Fighter, Worldwide Soccer

[@costumeninja1914]

Agreed!

[@RsiX_soundsUK]

Panzer dragoon was amazing , the effects and movement / animation was smooth and textures look great

[@malcolmar]

And that OST was epic! Panzer Dragoon was an incredible experience when it first can out and holds up very well today.

[@MisterBigMack]

Unfortunately 3D was the big sexy thing back in the mid 90s, but thankfully Saturn had tons of them Sonic R is probably my favourite Saturn game and remember absolutely blown away by the visuals as other publications did at the time Nice one mate

[@tournaline3448]

Athlete Kings is such an underrated game. It still looks beautiful today.

[@SEGAGuys]

It's glorious isn't it? High resolution, rock solid frame rate, detailed visuals ... and that gameplay, especially with friends, is just hilarious. Cheers for watching!

[@DLiberator78]

I still proudly have my Sega Saturn and it a console that is dear to my heart, great selection of 3D games here, can't wait for part 2.

[@roberto1519]

Fantastic system and amazing generation, developers just had so many different ideas and approaches to the then new dimension that 2D games couldn't provide, they were so creative, before the industry became fearful of trying new concepts. Here are some games I think have great 3D on the Saturn, apart from the ones on this list: Grandia, Shining Force III (specially scenario 3 and preferably with Paul_met's border removal patch), Advanced World War (like Shining Force III, has great battle scenes, but the game is in Japanese), Fighters Megamix, GunGriffon II, Sonic World (from Sonic Jam), Valhollian (3D Battles), Wachenroeder (3D Battles), World Cup France 98: Road to Win (last iteration of the Worldwide Soccer on the Saturn, never skips a beat and looks great).

[@nickbond6447]

Nice vid, look forward to part 2 and further videos taking deep dives in Saturns unique 3Dness!

[@TheRetroMartin]

Utterly fantastic choices James. I'll always champion Panzer Dragoon and it's sequels as visual treats! Virtua Cop is an outstanding game. Fighting Vipers too! Love Bulk Slash, tried out the translation when I got a Fenrir. Fantastic game. Hate the Sonic R rhetoric. Amazing game. Enjoyed it from the get go. I didn't know about the shoulder buttons as an "air brake" and I have still finished it several times. Makes you wonder if people who hate it actually bothered to play it!

[@Riz2336]

The 3D on the Saturn was pretty good for it's time, the system really shines with 2D though. Those Capcom arcade ports are near perfection to the arcade

[@nickbond6447]

It shines with additional hardware support mind (RAM)

[@Canadian_Gamer]

I had a Saturn on launch. Let me tell you, Virtua Fighter was such a half-ass port, Sega actually provided a free copy of Virtua Fighter Remix to early adopters which arrived in a paper sleeve.

[@SEGAGuys]

In the UK, we got a dual CD case version of Remix that came in a gorgeous long box style cardboard box. The second disc was the VF CG Portrait disc, you had to register your console to qualify for it.

[@CaseTheCorvetteMan]

Wasn't free everywhere, and i bought my Saturn on launch day. VF Remix was not free here for anyone.

[@Canadian_Gamer]

@@CaseTheCorvetteMan Virtua Fighter Remix was an update of the original Virtua Fighter with higher-polygon models, texture mapping, and some gameplay changes. It was given free to all registered Saturn owners in the United States via mail.

[@CaseTheCorvetteMan]

@@Canadian_Gamer quite well aware of what it was and what it is, but it was not free everywhere. That's a fact.

[@CaseTheCorvetteMan]

@@Canadian_Gamer read the rest of where you copied that text from, you left out a critical part of it.

[@arcadehispano877]

Awesome video! I hope you release part 2 soon. Thanks dude

[@slashrose3287]

I disagree with both Wipeout conversion, not the best SS can achieve (Perfect developer surely wasn't a top class team, maybe you can place both conversion in the "decent" area). Also, the indie scene, mostly with XL2 work, has shown in latest years (both with Hellslave and the Unreal demo) absolutely superior 3D achievement for SS, they both deserve to be placed in this video (probably they outclass anything present in the entire video). Also, this video is missing thre of the "3rd generation" SS title: Last Bronx, Zero Devide and Touge King the Spirits 2, true 3D technical showcase for this console.

[@HelloMisterJAMWAH]

I was the only person in my friend group who owned a Saturn, so maybe it was the novelty but I used to have tons of people round my house playing Athlete Kings for pretty much the whole of summer 1996. Even now we do impressions of the characters.

[@Chemical_Ali]

Same here. My PlayStation-owning mates actually loved it and would always look forward to having a go on the SEGA exclusives.

[@tomfum]

Great video again, im happy to own almost all of those games and i need to play more of them. I love the saturn and what it can do. Look forward to the next video

[@SEGAGuys]

Cheers, Tom!

[@AnxMa]

Love the early 2000's graphic engine aesthetics; reminds me of 'Fighting Force' :D I had some xp with Motion Capture and gotta admit even though Sega has always created a seriously fluid and accurate movement animations and overall choreography for games, they set the industry standard with Virtua Fighters. PS. You almost saw me as Leon in these new Resident Evil games :)

[@litjellyfish]

I would say this is mid 90s style, or did you mean more the last batch of Dreamcast games / first batch of PS2 games. Like Devil May Cry. That for me is early 2000 engine esthetics :) I love the style in this movie and in general “unlit” no shading. Where the lighting was “baked” painted into the texture itself and of ever used gauraud shading was used very very subtle. Like the PS2 Megaman 3D games. Die Hard for Saturn etc. I find those games look more modern today that others that used shading etc more. The style often lead to more crisp and contrasted textures that was very clean and had vibrant “clean” colors

[@SEGAGuys]

I remember the early tech demos for VF2 with Pai and Lau doing their moves on Jeffrey stage, and it was mind blowing, the movement was so human and realistic, beyond anything we'd seen before. You're spot on, they really did set the industry standard, the impact of Virtua Fighter sent shockwaves across the industry. Cheers for watching!

[@litjellyfish]

@@SEGAGuys yes. Bring back many memories. When I and the programmer of Combat cars (for Megadrive) was finishing the game in spring 94 we always took a break in the afternoon and went to an nearby arcade where we played virtua fighter like crazy. And also a bit of Ridge racer that had just been released in Europe then. Good times. Wow I realized that is almost exactly 30 years since then now! Wow time flies

[@SEGAGuys]

@@litjellyfishTell me about it mate. If someone could find the “pause” button for life, I’d appreciate it! 😂

[@litjellyfish]

@@SEGAGuys one more credit 😅

[@coffee84]

Great video about my favorite Sega console 👍

[@SEGAGuys]

Glad you enjoyed it Coffee! We're kind of fond of it here too. Cheers for watching.

[@cybersonic8472]

Sonic R actually controls really well with a steering wheel

[@UKDazarusUK]

Some classics in there.

[@segat-800]

Personally, I wouldn't include any inferior ports that show up the Saturns shortcomings vis a vie the PS1. Wipeout looks much nicer on the PS1 for example.

[@maroon9273]

Better brightness/lighting, draw distance and transpericies. Tomb raider ps1 version destroys the saturn. PS1 Ridge racer is better than saturn daytona.

[@costumeninja1914]

@@maroon9273not the Japanese Circuit Edition of Daytona.

[@simon0044]

I’d argue that some of those games look better than any ps1 3d games

[@SEGAGuys]

The unique way each console handled 3D gave games on each system such a stylised look. I'd agree that on 3D games built for the Saturn architecture, they stand head and shoulders above many PS1 games ...VF2, Last Bronx, Sega Rally, Virtua Cop 2, etc. Cheers for watching!

[@costumeninja1914]

@@SEGAGuyswell said

[@WWammyy]

I managed to aclimate to the controls on Sonic R however the main issue is fixed on the PC version as the charachters handle like cars u can simply remap the accelerator to a button instead of up* and that way the charachters handle so much better. A patch for the Saturn version to do this would be good

[@jmcclain8237]

Owning a Saturn and a PS1 . I was so disappointed with the Saturn. Not because it was bad, rather because it was a missed opportunity.

[@EricaBennett-du1ls]

Magically ‼this 😀🤘🏼

[@simonrobinson1566]

Great episode. You should control Sonic R by pressing B to accelerate and the d-pad to turn. That way works great - the developers should never have introduced the dodgy mechanic of pressing forward to go forward that made so many hate the game.

[@SEGAGuys]

It really is a fun game, and it reviewed well back in the day too! It's funny though, when you play it now it's a quick play through to find all the coins and secret routes, but see when it was new? Man, it felt like it took ages to find everything. Cheers for watching, Simon!

[@chrishowson2031]

Fucking great vid! 👍 oh and fair play for making the high jump in Athlete Kings, can never do it, hilarity ensues 😂

[@SEGAGuys]

Cheers, Chris. 😂 Athlete Kings is all about hilarity isn’t it? Especially when playing with friends and you accidentally hit “action” while frantically pressing the run button. Cheers for watching!

[@bradleymcavoy3432]

I have a refurbished and modded Saturn plus a copy of Tomb Raider and it LOOKS and SOUNDS Better that the PS1 version, ( Wish I had the Action Replay Cart but I’m not sure that would make it run better.) but it helps to have the right kind of TV! 🙄

[@Tommi1981]

I would like to try Nights. Are there any similar games? Strange if not.

[@SEGAGuys]

Nights is pretty unique in the Saturn library, there’s nothing quite like it on the system … or any console that generation to be fair. Thanks for watching!

[@Tommi1981]

@@SEGAGuys Thank you

[@f16madlion]

I found lot of what you were saying was not being shown on screen and was not doing the commentary justice , like the refractive water in tomb raider the colour changing track in sonic r it would have been interesting to see it though.

[@SEGAGuys]

Great feedback, I’ll take that on board for future videos. Thanks for watching.

[@benitoelwerito]

Quick question. When you say that Tomb Raider was primarily running on VDP1, it got me thinking: Considering that this is a fully 3D game with environments that have terrain with slopes, divots, and angles, how could VDP2 have helped offload some of that work from VDP1? I don’t see it, but maybe I haven’t put enough creativity behind it? 🤔

[@SEGAGuys]

There could have been some creative use of it, perhaps in the floors or ceilings of areas. Virtua Cop is a fully 3D game, yet the rookie team who put together that game used VDP 1 and 2 together to clever effect (see Pandamonium’s documentary on Virtua Cop for more on that if you haven’t already). The caveat to that is that the SEGA internal teams, even as rookies, would have more insight into the inner workings of Saturn compared to Core Design, who would very much have been learning on the job more or less with the system. Last Bronx is also a good example of VDP2 being used to create 3D looking 2D background elements/ceilings. Cheers!

[@MoonScythe1]

VDP2 could have been used to provide the templates for the 3D playfield for both the ground and ceiling (when in the mansion and tombs). Slopes, divots, and angles could have then been drawn as a 3D object by VDP1. This would also allow transparent water to be drawn by VDP2. Think the 4th stage in Panzer Dragoon 2.

[@benitoelwerito]

@@MoonScythe1 Ah, I see. Using VDP 1 to draw only the necessary obstacles (divots, angles, even small hills) while VDP 2 handled the rest of the floor. I could see that working well.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

@@benitoelweritoand then the framerate drops in the hills or caves. Better invest time in optimizing that code. For the water VDP1 would need to render to 2 frame-buffers ( and clear both of them every frame). Just memory was expensive back in the day.

[@benitoelwerito]

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Garbage collection to the rescue.

[@chungkingexpress94]

3D wasn't added to Saturn as an afterthought, but that's kind of semantics. Real 3D polygonal capability was added to Saturn late in its development. Hideki Sato is on record saying that originally he did think Saturn would need to be a sprite-based machine because the console dept had no expertise in 3D game making and he couldn't just pull thay expertise from the arcade division. They were going to go with pre-rendered 'fake 3D' but when they saw Playstation's final specs they decided to add the second SH processor to push Saturn into being a polygonal 3D. This really isn't much different than "3D was added late as an afterthought" unless you're focused on the word afterthought. It was something Sato had thought a lot about, so it wasn't random, but it was also a capability that was added late. The "myth" isn't really far from the actual truth

[@SEGAGuys]

@@chungkingexpress94 yeah, we’ve seen the Sato interview, our brothers at Sega Saturn, SHIRO! did an excellent translation video of the interview 10 months ago where Sato clears things up. Fact remains, the myth was challenged correctly and isn’t semantics. As the years pass and more and more KZbinrs come to the Saturn and their knowledge base is formed by the lies and “why Saturn failed” videos of years gone by, the myth is told as “the Saturn had a second graphics processor added at the last minute”. Which is factually incorrect. Both VDP1 and VDP2 existed in the design, they were unaltered. The second SH2 increased geometry calculations and essentially allowed more sprites to be pushed when creating the psuedo-polygons, but NO-ONE goes into that point when they say, “the Saturn had a second GPU added at the last minute”. So no, it’s not semantics. It’s ensuring history is reported factually.

[@chungkingexpress94]

@@SEGAGuys Your point about SH2 being added to push more pseudo 3D sprites is incorrect, at least as far as the Sato interview goes. With VDP1, VDP2 and SH1 they were already set to push tons of pseudo 3D sprites and had a geometry engine they liked and were nearing completion of the console's design. THEN they saw PS1's final specs and Sato added the SH-2 processor. SH-2 was not added for pseudo 3D, that was already taken care of. SH-2 was added to push the Saturn to be able to go beyond pseudo 3D and render real time polygons in a competitive way. So the idea that an additional processor was added at essentially the last minute to keep up with PS1 is essentially true. Had Sato been mulling over the idea of real time polygons in a console for a while? Yes. But they weren't going to release a console with that capability until very close to the end of the development. I've watched the Shiro Interview video multiple times to make sure I'm getting this timeline and the details correct.

[@Athiril]

Virtual On is missing. Many of those 3D games have slow camera movements and the action itself feels sluggish with slow moving characters and slow to respond to input especially compared to 2D titles, though not true for Virtual On

[@SEGAGuys]

Part 2 😉

[@craigwilliamson6344]

Sega!

[@SEGAGuys]

Right back at you Craig! - "SEGA!" Cheers for watching.

[@soaremicheledavid6020]

Sega Saturn feels like an unifineshed product, great design with much potential but not utilizing the true power it had. Dreamcast was what Saturn could been, the Dreamcast has graphics that can destroy PS1 & N64.

[@maroon9273]

The hardware was never meant to be on this console except the vdp2. I wish sega would've had yuzuki/lockheed martin or nvidia to design its hardware. Or even accepted offers from 3do/Panasonic or sgi chipsets.

[@keaton718]

Poor Saturn, lol. Saturn games feel like brain damaged version of Playstation games.

[@maroon9273]

All thanks to rushing the console out including the suprise launch. Neglecting developers and refusing to give them proper sdk, documentations, engines and tools. Even the 3d games look like unfinished pc games. Only thing saturn edges the ps1 is its background rendering and Polygon models like sonic r, quake including all lobotomy games released on the saturn, Decathlete, last bronx, dead or alive, world series baseball 98 and panzer dragoon series.

[@oldbordergeek]

As a n64 kid i must admit both gimme headaches with their shady aliasing 3d and shacky visuals