The BEST and WORST Projectiles in Smash Ultimate

[@rainboroad]

i was baffled to see you not discuss peach's turnips, they're an out of shield option, combo starter, combo extender and the stitch is even able to kill, though i understand if the way you measured the effectiveness of projectiles made ranking the turnips incompatible

[@Islanders61]

No, they were in the list and barely didn't make the top 5 for the damaging, combing, and trapping section. Turnips were an easy #6 and it was tough debating between them or Wolf's Laser

[@NotRockMan]

But there’s a lot of RNG with turnips and one or two turnip types probably wouldn’t make them make the list

[@DaquaneJohnson]

Along with what you said, ledge trapping, sniping, two of her throws combo with it, turnip kill confirms, the shield break setups- turnip is so good 😭

[@chickfilasaucegmd]

Same

[@mettatonex7221]

@@Islanders61 Then I think you're grossly overselling Wolf's Laser.

[@starguy26]

Tbh not very impressed Byleth- 2:56 "takes 114 frames to start up, that's over two entire seconds" Smash runs at 60 fps... 2 seconds is 120 frames Byleth- 3:13 "it is the single move on this list that has the most start-up" Ness- 6:59 "to the maximum, at the fully charged version, of 117 frames " B Jr- 11:20 "and therefore literally has no use" Gotta learn that shield break combo with kart Hero- Okay yeah I guess I agree, according to these arbitrary categories with arbitrary rules, in a vacuum kaboom is great... but I don't think you equally looked at the other characters projectiles in a vacuum like that, "do to the restrictions and limitations with the criteria of this list... hero... does not need rng or mp in order to fire this move", like really dude? then why not take away charge shot charging too then? OR LIKE WHY ISNT WHACK HERE THEN?!?? This was just the first third of the video...

[@jackclifton5434]

Okay I got gripes, Junior cannonball is a genuinely useful move but it is NOT a kill move. It’s good for spacing, edgegaurding, breaking shield, protecting your recovery and ledge trapping. Since it keeps a hitbox when it drops it’s unbelievably versatile and it can hit shields twice which breaks them. Also it moves slow enough that it controls stage space surprisingly well. It does kill, kinda, but that’s not at all what it’s used for. It shouldn’t be on the list it rocks I love Bowser Junior so damn much

[@AnRKader]

I mean it’s not super good at any of those things though. It’s never used as an edge guard, only as a way to either force a neutral airdodge or stop a particular recovery route. In terms of spacing it’s laughable, and there is almost never a reason not to just clown car and cancel instead. Shield breaks are incredibly rare as well, if you know it breaks you can just roll before or even after the first hit on your shield. I’ll give you protecting your recovery, as the way it bounces of the stage is kinda nice, but it’s not like you use it every time to get back to stage. (Though I should say I’m not a junior player)

[@10kwithzerobitches20]

@@AnRKader and the three trillion frame startup

[@lucariouwu68]

Also I believe it can be comboed into, if you chase it with a side b or dash attack while uncharged. Kind of like the slow Hadouken

[@Moss_Dude]

Yeah, killing with it is basically the LAST thing on a Jr player's mind when they throw it out. I think he miscategorized PK Flash too, and I'm pretty worried about the rest of the video I haven't seen yet.

[@gearedworm]

Yep its more like a trap than a killing move, and ironicly it's (lack of) speed is the best thing about it, it may not kill but gives you another trap.

[@ankleknuckle]

i think these lists are all pretty solid, but im super surprised no flame arrow. id say its better than wolf laser for free, and while i dont think its better than gyro necessary i def think its on par w tjolt

[@Blockoumi]

I honestly think that bonus fruit and gyro are better than t-jolt. I also think hydrant is better than bonus fruit

[@EmptyHand49]

Flame arrow sends opponents upwards and can't gimp easily like wolf's laser. Thunder jolt's utility on stage makes it better than flame arrow easily.

[@guerrero975]

Flame arrow is a mid ranged kill confirm, everyone disagreeing with you is seriously SERIOUSLY underestimating it-or they don’t understand how neutral goes

[@katamichi8003]

I hate the flame arrows but only because they deserve respect. They're hard to reflect, fast, can easily be spammed, and despite being fire cant be absorbed. Probably not the best but still should be on the list

[@MARSHT0MP404]

tjolt can 2 frame though

[@vick7868]

As high as you ranked Bonus Fruit, I think you're underestimating the first 5 Fruits Pac-Man has, as there were a few omissions when talking about them. Let me explain: Even though they arent something you're gonna see thrown out all the time, Cherry and Strawberry are pretty good for being annoying such as in neutral and when an opponent is recovering and, when recaught, can lead to frame traps and confirms into grab, which helps with positioning and getting some decent damage off the conversion. Orange is great for covering linear spaces in front of Pac-Man without needing to resort to a full charge to Key. It is fantastic for baiting jumps and shields and is just overall a good Fruit to zone and be a general nuisance with. Apple is actually instrumental in setting up traps and area denial, as when used to break Hydrant it sends the thing at a very high yet short arc, which makes it extremely scary when used in a ledge trap. Melon is also very good for ledge trapping, as it sets up another very long lasting, slow hitbox to cover options from ledge or can be recaught and thrown down or up at ledge to pressure ledge hangs or just deny them completely. In short, all Fruits do serve a purpose. The worst of them is generally said to be Strawberry since it doesn't do much that Cherry doesn't but, while I agree, doesn't even make it completely useless. So yeah... there's my thesis lol. Theres more I could bring up about how they are all pretty good when used in Hydrant setups but that is a whole separate thing that a KZbin comments probably wouldn't be able to do proper justice to... yeah I really don't wanna pull the pin on that grenade for now lol. Let's just end with the fact that this is quite easily the best charge projectile in the entire game.

[@Blockoumi]

agreeeeeeed! orange is great in tech situations when the opponent is far away because it covers almost every option. if you F-air and then charge orange, you'll have enough time, before they get up, to throw it. Apple also leads into many combos and has the best hydrant angle. it also goes surprisingly far melon is amazing for traps (specifically at ledge), is a Great moving Wall because of the slow movement and is easy to use as hydrant canon ammunition. I find myself using these fruit more at lower percentages because they vary my play style and are generally more fun

[@maceybeddall2478]

Ratio

[@vick7868]

@@maceybeddall2478 ?

[@Blockoumi]

@@maceybeddall2478 no

[@katamichi8003]

As far as chargeable projectiles go bonus fruit does offer a wide variety of useful attacks. Personally I think a chargeable attack should be based around power over its weak But useful variance considering if we were judging the character by the variety of said attack Hero's menu box would definitely be the best.

[@Magic_Ice]

I don’t like that you included Kaboom. I know it fits your criteria but that’s like saying “K.O Punch is the best neutral special in the game if you can use it whenever” or “Limit Cross Slash is the best side special in the game if you always have limit”. In theory you are correct but these moves are only good because they have special conditions. Also there is no way you put Failnaught, not even the non charged version above Bowser Jr’s cannon shot. Cannon shot isn’t that great of a move but it’s still miles ahead of a move your opponent has to put down their controller to hit.

[@datonemarioguy]

Underrated projectile imo is doc's pill, can be so annoying to deal with, can lead to combos, does rank up some damage, and it can even snipe.

[@mitrimind1027]

It's like a worse t jolt or fireball though.

[@LumosTerris]

Imo Zelda's Phantom is one of the best projectiles in the game hands down. The fact that it gives you a few seconds to act between when you set it up and when it activates opens up a whole ton of possibilities that no other projectile has: -It can allow you to cover practically all ledge options if spaced and timed correctly -It's an excellent conditioning tool -Earlier charges are good defensive mix-ups -The second to last charge's hitbox coverage is MASSIVE -it does like 20 percent fully charged?? -*It kills??* -*It can be **_comboed into???_* -It's an AMAZING zoning tool All of that aside, it can even be used to block projectiles and the rare normal move by essentially doing a RAR input, which allows the Phantom (or its shield if it's hit later in the charge) to tank the hits. Either way, if the person using it has a brain and doesn't throw it out every five seconds, Phantom is easily one of the best non-item projectiles in the game. I'm not sure if it would quite fit any of the three categories you listed, but that's more due to the fact that it's so stinking versatile lol

[@kendukin9725]

Shuriken of light is unironically better than gale strike in most matchups lol. I don't blame people for not knowing but it confirms to dashgrab, all smash attacks, etc. when done airborne (sh shuriken vs tall chars is genuinely oppressive, landing shuriken combos even vs short chars tho) and is insanely spammable

[@katamichi8003]

So we're not going to talk about PK Fire? The extremely fast pillar attack that's been in every game, can easily be spammed and is perfect for setting up punishes

[@Magic_Ice]

Eh it’s good but unless you are online it is definitely not on the same level as bonus fruit or Grenade.

[@Blockoumi]

arc fire is ten times better

[@katamichi8003]

@@Magic_Ice I respectfully disagree. Just because a handful of the pros don't play the same way doesn't make it a bad move or character. PK Fire has a spike setup at ledge and off stage, it doesn't wear off like arcfire, and can force most characters into certain positions. It's even useful pocketed or reflected by other characters. At bare minimum it deserves an honorable mention for making Ness a notable character for the past 23 years.

[@Magic_Ice]

@@katamichi8003 1. Lol pk sucked in Melee idk about the other games. 2. I agree PK Fire is a good move. I personally disagree with it being better then Grenade which is frame one and maybe it is in the top 5z

[@katamichi8003]

@@Magic_Ice even I agree that snakes grenade is better a projectile. Of course PSI magnet pretty much turns grenade into candy for the Earthbound boys. I was just making a point that it should have at least been in the video.

[@nachot6592]

"It has no other use" MkLeo: Hold my beer.

[@vitorlol22]

Diddy kong's banana should defenetly be on this list as it at least 3rd projectile in the game. The banana is great in neutral, ledge trapping, forcing interactions, kill confirms and edgeguarding. It's only downsides is that it can't be used in disadvantage (except maybe to get out of the corner), if you don't hit the opponent with it he has one chance to use it before it disapears or in very specific matchups like Villager or Isabell were they can use pocket so that you can't use it anymore

[@vitorlol22]

Also, great video. Expect more people to watch your content and subscribe now that you have a good microphone

[@StoryTeller796]

Eitan Shamah got an answer, and tbh it kind of is questionable. They can be used against you. And while it is a fair reason, bold words for someone within F-smash distance.

[@chordalharmony]

I’m not sold on the disadvantage part with Diddy’s banana. It’s a STRONG off ledge option if it can be set up

[@wiredpotatomail]

Duck Hunt's can is a summonable puppet disguised as a projectile. It's genuinely kind of insane how versatile it is, and it's held back by Duck Hunt's other moves.

[@rude5059]

I think cannonball is better than u give it credit for. After it travels a bit it starts going at a NASTY downwards trajectory that can exploit certain recoveries. Still bad but better than pk flash for sure

[@Spyder-Marth]

Heck yeah

[@lucariouwu68]

I'm a bit confused on whether a move with varying levels of charge is counted at all charges or just full. Failnaught could arguably escape bottom 3 if the first stage is included, and Charge Shot may not be considered one of the best if it didn't have the nuance of multiple stages. But these conflicting conditions make it difficult to discern how directly these moves are being compared

[@Islanders61]

The reason for that is that the different charges of charge shot are the same move just on different stages. They always have the same physical properties, but with failnaught the first and second charge not only differ in strength, start-up, and range, but with their properties as well. The fully charged version cannot be pocketed, inhaled, and can be absorbed whereas the regular arrow cannot. That is the only reason why they were treated as two separate projectiles.

[@Magic_Ice]

@@Islanders61 But then why is Bonus fruit all one move?

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

@@Magic_Ice The bell would still take the same slot regardless so does it matter?

[@Magic_Ice]

@@morphstarchangeling8024 If you can just use bell then it would be absolutely broken. No charge instant bell.

[@BrEaDisgood-r5y]

I was shocked to not find Zelda's Phantom on this list. It may take a while for it to fully charge but you can choose when you want to use it. It gives off major pressure I can't see how you wouldn't be an advantage while it's set up. It can also break Shields, combo into other moves, and kill.

[@bluarrow4505]

The thing is, it’s very predictable and punishable. I’d say it would be a bit better if it worked like other charging projectiles, being able to charge it and then use it whenever you want, but that’s not the case. Not to mention that any kind of damage will force Zelda to stop building it and cause the Phantom to fall, making any projectile beat it out if the Zelda is still charging it. Again, that wouldn’t be an issue if Zelda could just stop charging it and go back to charging it so the entire Phantom isn’t destroyed from a stray projectile but she can’t, so she’s either forced to let a half built Phantom attack the air so she can shield, or let it fall after taking damage. Not to mention, the move is extremely dodge-able, it’s range is very easy to calculate and if you just have the tiniest bit of patience you can wait it out or just shield it if the Zelda is far enough away. The move is also has a lot of endlag, making counters that lunge or give status effects (and other invincible moves) extremely effective against it like Revenge, Wonder Wing, and even Mac’s counter. Overall, the projectile is really only good for trapping and is very mediocre when used anywhere else, like in neutral or disadvantage. Edit: forgot this, but you can also destroy the Phantom, making it so Zelda cant build another one for a couple seconds. Not being able to use a projectile for a few seconds because it got destroyed is a huge detriment to the tool. Say you send out the Phantom and it gets destroyed, and during the time it’s destroyed you send the opponent offstage. Now, you’re left without Zelda’s best ledge trapping option and once you get it back, it will be a little to late to try and use it in the situation.

[@BrEaDisgood-r5y]

@@bluarrow4505 Fair I can see where you come from although it had glaring weakness I think it still better than some moves on the best list. The utility of the move is amazing.

[@bluarrow4505]

@@BrEaDisgood-r5y which ones do u think it’s better than and why?

[@BrEaDisgood-r5y]

@@bluarrow4505 The entirety of the worst list for obvious reasons. Snakes Nikita because Phantom can also be use as a edge guarding tool not as effectively but Phantom has more uses and can be used safely in neutral. Samous's charge shot because Phantom is much better at guarding the ledge due to it being able to hit over and under it Phantom it can also be used to combo something charge shot can't do. And Phantom is basically a wall you constantly have to be aware of while Zelda is also putting pressure on you. I think it's better than some other moves in the combo/damage list but doesn't have the same uses as them. which was the point of the other list. And it's better than kaboom but due to the rules of the video kaboom is the best move in the game with no charge up time.

[@bluarrow4505]

@@BrEaDisgood-r5y there’s no shot you think it’s as good as Charge Shot and Nikita…

[@s3eriousbl9ck26]

I think a scoring system would give y'all the answer you're looking for. Your "arbitrary character" and mockrocks "vacuum" formats are not consistent and you end up going against that rule on certain projectiles. If you'd separate each type of utility into categories and scored each projectile on that you'd get a more objective answer. Also, you might want to separate the categories you call niche. These niche situations happen many times every game and they're different types of utility. Like, area denial/stage control, combo extension, recovery protection, are all different types of utility. You can just score them in those categories as well. That way your arbitrary character format will be more consistent.

[@Harmless_Music]

This! There's also a pretty crazy amount of matchups (let alone scenarios) that can happen in any given game, meaning the value of some projectiles either goes up or goes down. Gauging the usefulness of a projectile then starts to become so much trickier than looking at "how good it kills".

[@Spyder-Marth]

VERY good idea. The ratings would definitely be way more accurate and people could have a better idea on what to use each projectile for instead of casting it (and respective character) out because (it isn't fast/strong and it can't start top tier combos like XYZ).

[@nathanturoff3496]

K rool's crownerang should've been on the combo list. It's a great neutral tool, with regular super armor that is separate from his belly armor. Like the other boomerangs, it both goes and comes back, giving it 2 opportunities to hit. It forces the opponent to shield or Roll twice, allowing the k rool to punish that. The coming back hit also combos into many things as it launches the opponent back towards k rool. It can also break an opponent out of an attack on your shield. It does have the side effect of becoming an item if not recovered immediately by the k rool, but a good k rool won't allow this to easily happen and can adapt if it does

[@lukasluna5319]

you are right but i think there are still 5 better projectiles than his (in this "ruleset")

[@jeromeruffin1822]

I'm surprised Duck Hunt's Can isn't on here. It's one of the most versatile projectiles in the game and puts opponents in terrible situations. It can be launched while being grabbed, punishes shield pokes, and it also comes out frame 1.

[@ShinyMew76]

Two things I have to discuss. 1: I was expecting Mewtwo’s Shadow Ball here, it’s a lot faster and more spammable than Samus Charge Shot, it has just as much KO power fully charged and also combos a lot easier. You can spam it a lot faster and it has a lot less lag, although it travels a bit slower, the fact you can run behind it to force you’re opponent to either jump or shield, makes for a much easier punish. Samus Charge Shot travels faster, but has more end lag and startup lag and is not as spammable as Mewtwo’s. 2: This is more of feedback towards the video. I notice when you talked about Corrin’s Neutral B you mentioned you were talking about the moves and not just the projectiles, yet at Super Dedede Jump you mentioned you were only talking about the projectile. It’s a bit of a contradiction, unless the niche moves are different than the normal ones. One last thing, I like how well written these scripts are! They seem like the quality of an actual writing essay, that’s something that is very rare on the internet, so props to you on that! Keep it up! -ShinyMew76, a Rangers (Hehe) Fan and an Avalanche fan

[@ONLY_RR7]

Bro it’s a KZbin comment not an email, why are you signing your name after? Lol

[@ShinyMew76]

@@ONLY_RR7 It was meant to be written well

[@frankjoz2803]

Better than charge shot? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[@ShinyMew76]

@@frankjoz2803 I’m not saying it’s better, in my opinion it’s just a bit more versatile

[@312bigbeanburrito]

Smash runs at 60fps. How does a 114 frame startup take "over two seconds" to complete?

[@animiyashi7137]

Ice Shots being reflected by any attack and hitting the Icies is something that couldn't be justified

[@kendukin9725]

The funniest thing is youve always been able to hit them back but only in ultimate do they actually hurt Icies

[@animiyashi7137]

Which is how this awful nerf killed Icies in many matchups. In theory some developers think dysync ice shots is too powerful so they decided to make the ice shots hurt Icies when these projectiles are deflected by any attacking move expect some energy projectiles, but its not consistent.

[@thunderd7904]

They're still paying taxes for the war crimes they committed in Melee

[@ashlyn40-b5q]

"So Snake cannot be combo'd period." True combos: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@mikohai]

I think Luma Shot is probably the best niche projectile since it's vital to Rosalina and Luma's gameplay and never really used as a projectile.

[@iswiftyfox8997]

I would say byleth is the worst killing projectile because as you mentioned they already have their down b, and yeah I guess if you look at it in a vaccine but most other character can just use a smash attack instead

[@indexRight]

Vaccum-* I see the virus has hit your autocorrect 😔

[@lemguins7031]

I find it interesting that you give Snake's move praise for it's off stage capabilities even at the lack of on stage utility, then immediately say bowser jr's cannon move is bad because it shouldn't be used in place of on stage kill moves, when one of it's best uses is attacking below the ledge from even past center stage, when the shot descends, to set up ledge traps with mechakoopas when the opponent is returning or go for safe gimps on recoveries with proper timing. A bit unfair to disregard a moves best application to say it's bad when it isn't being used optimally. I'd sooner say Bowser jr's Up b is his killing projectile in neutral tbh.

[@SMOG8]

I mostly agree with you but up-b is mostly really bad in neutral unless you get a read or are using it to ledge trap. You are in a really bad spot without the cart in most matchups(especially swordies).

[@Spyder-Marth]

Corrin main speaking. I respectfully disagree with Fang Shot's ranking for a LOT of reasons. 1. It has multiple levels of charge. Distance, power, and speed can be altered (so it isn't always incredibly slow unless the player chooses it to be). This allows for mix-ups as it can completely throw someone off if you shoot a few weak bolts with an occasional beefy one on occasion (or vice-versa). It may not kill that well, but that leads to point 2. 2. It is EXTREMELY good for punishing an air dodge, an air jump, a dodge roll, and any ledge recovery. Why? Because you can *B-reverse* the move at the very start of the attack. You can get close to the ledge and trick your opponent into rolling, only to stun and then chomp them because of a B-reversed Fang Shot. It is indeed slow, but it isn't slow enough to render these tactics out. 3. You said it has no follow-ups... but the chomp and side B definitely are follow-ups. The chomp is obvious, but the side B can be used as a great K.O. or damage-dealing move after an opponent is stunned by a fully-charged Fang Shot. You can even hit them at a wack distance with the blast, *run up to them,* and then hit them with a Side B pin. It's a TRUE combo if timed correctly and within the right distance.

[@Islanders61]

Yes. As a Corrin main in Smash 4, he still has a spot in my heart and I agree that he is very underrated. My thought was just that compared to the other projectiles in the list, Dragon Fang Shot, and the projectiles specifically, does not stand up to the other moves for the reasons put in the video. This does not mean it is useless as all projectiles have use, they are one of if not the best type of moves, but in relation to the others, it does not hold up as one of the best.

[@Spyder-Marth]

@@Islanders61 I know it isn't the best move compared to others, but I still think it was ranked too low and a lot of things were left out in the analysis. It is a good projectile IMO but most people do not know how to use it to its true potential (and barely anyone uses Corrin) so it *looks* really bad in Ultimate, especially since it was nerfed a little compared to its Smash 4 version.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Spyder-Marth One good strategy is Corrin jump backwards and charging Dragon Fang shot while the opponent is approaching Corrin.

[@Spyder-Marth]

@@orangeslash1667 That sounds like a really good strategy! Thanks :D

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Spyder-Marth the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.

[@frontseatdevil7831]

Duck Hunt has a number of great projectiles, namely can. Can is an excellent neutral tool, and in my opinion, is a top 3 projectile in the game. There’s a lot of things missing in this list.

[@Blockoumi]

I think frisbee is better than can. It allows for many follow ups

[@frontseatdevil7831]

@@Blockoumi Yes, but it's very laggy. If you miss it, it's problematic. It's a great projectile, but I prefer can.

[@fxviridis]

Interesting way of ranking. I certainly wouldn't do it like this just because I think something like Samus' charge shot is a better damaging move than something like ROBs gyro, so like it fills both roles amazingly. And if you're only ranking the projectiles themselves, without taking the characters kit and requirements for the use of the projectile into account, wouldn't max Aura Sphere be better than charge shot? Wouldn't Kaboom also be the best damaging projectile because you could spam it? Like I just think that it's impossible to properly rank these moves without taking the in game context of the moves into account. Also Tjolt is better than Grenade imo. Literally invalidates half of the cast and does too much for Pikachu even outside of neutral, such as recovery, kill setups, camping, edgeguarding, conditioning, approaching, etc. Plus I think a lot of people screw up in the Snake matchup by not using grenades for themselves, also Snakes disadvantage is so awful in the first place that grenade only makes his disadvantage average at best, and also means you can bait grenade during combos, not to mention that you can space moves to not hit a held grenade (unreliable but worth mentioning). Also Peach's turnip should 100% be on the damaging projectiles list. Not a lot of trapping use like Gyro but does an absurd amount of damage and sets up for kills just as well, with the added benefit of the chance to pull turnips that do insane damage and kill mad early

[@StoryTeller796]

Huh, I will have to try out your strategy against Snake. you do make a great case for Peach. Tjolt literally needs either a reflector or something to power through it to stand a chance of fighting Pickachu, honestly Ratchet and Clank would be the perfect counter-pick to Pickachu just on the principle that the two of them would have low hitting moves and guns galore to punish Pikachu if he so much as tries to approach. Of course, they would also be broken against Little Mac because of the mobility options they would have, so yeah. And lastly, that is what he tried and semi-failed to critique the moves on, is how they individually affect each of the Smash bros cast. Which, while is a unique way of ranking them, is just that. A mere novelty for us who want a different ranking system.

[@Harmless_Music]

Yes! More people should be using Snake's grenades against them. Similarly, a lot of characters would benefit from Diddy Kong's banana peel, as smash attacks universally are KO moves, and banana peel allows for smash attack follow ups guaranteed. There's also the combo benefits that any fighter can take advantage of. Similarly, turnip offers very similar benefits, and it's been proven as there's plenty of clips of players grabbing a turnip from an opposing peach, then doing a combo or such with it.

[@fxviridis]

@@Harmless_Music Honestly I think a big reason why Tweek doesn't place top 3 at everything post quarantine is because people learned the matchup (using banana) after summit. Obviously there's more to it than that but probably the largest contributing factor imo

[@Harmless_Music]

@@fxviridis Oh yeah, I wasn't even talking about Tweek specifically but that's also true lol I think the power of being able to deploy banana, let alone have it on hand is what makes Diddy Kong a pretty scary fighter to go up against imo. Even if you catch banana for yourself, that requires a read just to have an opportunity for some kind of punish. But knowing the matchup makes that a bit more feasible, no doubt.

[@lukasluna5319]

yes i agree with you on the chargeshot it is mostly used as combo tool

[@SourSalty]

Lucario's aura sphere is an amazing kill comfirm move, and it's a good killing projectile(with aura of course)

[@maugos]

As a Corrin player I really don't see Dragon Fang Shot as being that terrible. The top five you chose are definitely better projectiles, but I really enjoy how Dragon Fang Shot works. For one thing I tend to find it great for tricking people into coming near me. I'll purposefully miss with the projectile, the opponent will get near, and then I'll bite them with the charged jaws. The stunning effect is also great for either its intended purpose of creating an opening, forcing an opponent to deal with it, or reassessing my situation allowing me to reposition. The fact that it's two different attacks that are both chargeable is super useful in playing mind games. It feels very much like a great combination of both offensive and defensive qualities. That said, a lot of the flaws you point out are true. Not the greatest projectile, but personally, wouldn't rank it so low.

[@shadowraith10]

Where is Remote bomb? Why is no one talking about Remote bomb? Let me paint this picture for you... Imagine you're facing pikachu...You finally get fat rat off stage and catch his jump and he's falling low enough his up B isn't enough, and then suddenly a remote bomb from himself is used to launch himself back to stage to recover, and the cycle starts again with nair loops over and over. Beyond this, pikachu being able to detonate a bomb he places into down air off stage would be goddamn brutal... Let's do another example. Little mac with remote bomb... Little mac's aerials have very low knockback BUT... I bet... If he had a droppable projectile like remote bomb... he could combo with it into offstage side b, and then use it to blow himself back to stage... boom, mac is instantly a lot better. He can even edge guard now with a remote bomb.... Are we catching the picture now? Remote bomb deserved a spot on this list as one of the best. I wanna say remote bomb is honestly slightly better than Gyro given it's extra use in disadvantage on top of neutral and advantage state as well.

[@gumimoon3906]

Although this video was phenomenal in terms of each projectile ranking and uses, I'm kinda baffle how he didn't mention how good Joker Eiha is. It's honestly a great wall and dps in the game

[@Islanders61]

I agree, it is an amazing tool, but I just don't think it ranked among the top 5 for this list. I think its small hitbox and end lag make it a little more situational than some of these. It is great in the neutral, but not really many other places.

[@ShinyMew76]

@@Islanders61 How would you rate Sepheroph’s Side B? It’s spammable, it’s fast, has great reward, scares the opponent and forces a shield to come out which can be punished for a shield break or grab.

[@bananaplane5494]

Joker gun is better than eiha but it is only good for b-reverses and movement in general not as a projectile

[@gumimoon3906]

@@bananaplane5494 I'm a joker main, I know that is good but side B ramps up so much damage that I abuse it every game I play

[@StoryTeller796]

So far, I have seen arguments for both Ness' PK Flash being usable on Mockrock's channel, though I do still agree with it being bad though. Bowser Jr's cannonball, on the other hand is less meant to do what every other projectile typically does, which is what you listed with Combo and KO potential, and is definitely much more meant as a pressure tool, since you can reasonably charge it up to a version where it does a lot of harm to the opponents gameplan, especially when mixed with the Clown Car's capability of just breaking through whatever wall your opponent has set up, be it long disjoints or any projectiles. And the Cannonball, at any charge, can cancel any projectile. Byleth's Failnought? Canceled. Samus' Charge shot? Canceled. The Sun? Canceled! "Things were being canceled so fast people thought it was Twitter!" So yeah, despite it being one of the worst projectiles in the game when we pit it against anyone who's got something to counter it, especially reflectors or pockets since those one-shot Jr, or at least send him to 63% from zero, to call it the worst KO projectile, or even the worst projectile in the game, when it can and probably will destroy past any other projectile is kinda dubious. Of course, all of this is to be taken in a Nuetral scenario where the opponent is spamming projectiles at one end of the stage and Jr can chuck a cannonball at the problem and be done with it, which while isn't the most impossible thing in the world, to set up into it you would most certainly need to use all of Jr's mobility options, which would would either need him to be high enough to get on stage or force him to grab the ledge and then get back up onstage and run as fast as possible towards safety to avoid the projectile spam by someone like Samus and her Down Special bombs. Or, if you are being walled out and using a cannonball will leave you wide open and susceptible to being hit. So, despite the fact that the projectile is usually a redundant piece in Bowser Jr's gameplan, it still isn't the worst. It can be used like Snake's Nikita or like Byleth's Failnought, it can even be used like a hard counter to projectiles in situations where you have to stand your ground, though if you want something that can actually KO opponents or set up into KO's, you are kinda out of luck. Oh, and I think I forgot to mention, when it first hits a shield, it doesn't actually make the cannonball disappear. Instead, it drops down with a second blow to most certainly either break it or just hit the opponent up into the air. Which would give Junior a lot of breathing room, which gives opponents a choice in challenging or not challenging it with a shield. Do I shield, and hope that I can am at a correct distance to avoid the second hit, or do I take the damage? Characters with reflectors can bypass this question altogether with the answer of "Reflect go brrrrr", which puts in a "Gun" to this game of Rock-Paper-Scissors for junior to manipulate and exploit for his victory. Still, as Kian Doshi said, this is a great informational Smash video that actually presents us with a realistic setting of how the competitive scene works. I have heard every other arguement for the good characters, and while I would place charge shot higher because of how it was described to me and because of how powerful it is, I still agree with the placement. Oh, where do I begin with how bad and how sad Mii Gunner is. Like seriously, what were the devs thinking when they made that move!? It feels clunky, it oftentimes gives the opponent the advantage for free with how trapped Mii Gunner is, and it isn't even a good pressure tool. Of course, the though of getting hit by any move is something that every player has been psychologically conditioned to avoid at all costs and it still does keep opponents still, though it is practically only good if someone wants to JV4 you since, like I said before, it literally hands the opponent the advantage state with how trapped Mii Gunner is in the animation. It might as well be the best trapping tool in the game against the character that uses it. R.O.B. is our hype guy on the microphone! And here is where I disagree with you with the Shuriken of Light. It is an incredible tool to spam at the ledge, since it will stun the opponent longer than Mii Swordfighter, unlike Mii Gunners Lazer which traps Mii Gunner long enough to give the opponent the advantage for free, and also at high percents it can waste projectile-users time and be either a KO move or to at least set up into the possibility of it. It is a sadistic tool meant for people who have an easy time getting the opponent to those high percents or putting them right at the ledge and enjoy their salty tears as they watch in absolute horror as the opponent incessantly spams the one move that is just so good at trapping the opponent either in hitstun or in a situation where just one wayward Up Air can lead the opponent just close enough, INTO THE BLASTZONE! MWAHAHAHAHA! *Hack* *Cough* So, anyway. The bonus fruit is a beautiful Palette of colors meant to create a wonderful painting of Victory and Entertainment. "Corrin!" ... "Pikachu!" Oh yeah, the top tier rat. I know how great that projectile is. Anyway, Pokepark is a great game serious, and Pickachu in the Animation series is a wonderful little silly character that is just so well grounded, he reminds me of Ratchet from Ratchet and Clank. Bullet Seed should be reworked. I know how great Grenade is as well.

[@fxviridis]

Jesus fucking Christ this comment has more active frames than Snakes uptilt

[@StoryTeller796]

@@fxviridis I like to think of myself as a very active person.

[@thunderd7904]

20:05 - Shuriken of Light is definitely not a top 5 worst contender. It’s a really good tool to force approaches since you can get two in a short hop and is great for conditioning the opponent to jump over them. It’s almost like a slightly more spammable Wolf laser that trades some damage and the close range hitbox for much better range and annoyance factor. While it really doesn’t have any use outside of neutral, I think it excels there and would definitely be used if Chakram didn’t exist in a slot that allows you to also run Gale Strike at the same time.

[@frankjoz2803]

Wrong

[@thunderd7904]

@@frankjoz2803 care to provide an argument as to why?

[@axr1798]

@@frankjoz2803He was right, gale stab might not be his best neutral special, biggest L of the video by far.

[@Ace_Jxyner]

Awesome video! I’ve been waiting for a video like this for a while. Although I do agree with many of these choices and the points you brought up, I disagree on a few points discussed throughout the video. To discuss my thoughts, I’ll be using the same criteria set at the beginning of the video to be fair and consistent (not taken in a vacuum, but in the context of any character). Throughout my discussion I’ll also be assuming that whatever projectile I’m talking about will replace whatever move was in the character’s slot previously (for example, Fox Laser replaces any other character’s Neutral B). In chronological order, Ness’ PK Flash, while agreeably not a great killing projectile, does have other uses other than those mentioned in its section of the video. PK Flash is a really good platform tech chase option. It can cover every tech option if positioned in the middle of the platform unless the character is super small and doesn’t get hit when they roll to either side or the player waits for a split second to be invincible during the explosion. Both instances are very niche, but even considering those two niches, it still provides great pressure since there is very minimal end lag after releasing the explosion. On release, the explosion is frame 14 with 21 frames of endlag (35 total after release) which is fast enough to create additional platform pressure with aerials or smash attacks or any other move a character might have. PK Flash is also useful on shield break. Fully charged PK Flash true combos into grab (considering the character’s grab is fast enough) or a fast move like a tilt, smash attack, or other special move. A character can use that by getting even more damage from combos if they’re at low percent, or if the opponent is not quite in the percent range for a designated fast kill move to kill, you can stack on that additional damage to get the kill (this specific niche can be remedied by just charging a smash attack on shield break instead of trying to be fancy, but this is still a good application of PK Flash nonetheless). Secondly Bowser Jr. Cannonball is also agreeably one of the worst projectiles in the game, but as I’ve seen many other people talk about in the comments before posting this one, Cannonball does still have other uses aside (rarely) killing. As you mentioned with Pikachu Thunder Jolt, Cannonball can help with recovery by covering the stage and forcing opponents to respect it. This logic fails if the opponent is already off stage chasing you, but unless a character has a way to stall/stay off stage like Sora or Pac Man, they still have to worry about it as it descends to the stage/ledge. Uncharged Cannonball actually does pretty good shield damage and can be used to pressure a shield break after you use a decently strong move on an opponents shield or vise versa. Slight charge Cannonball can even break almost full shield (opponent was shielding in neutral for a small amount but wasn’t hit on shield with anything so their shield is slightly smaller than full shield). If spaced properly and conditioned correctly, slight charge late hit Cannonball can catch a character dropping shield thinking that it won’t hit them again like K Rool Cannonball, or just pop shields if they continue to hold it. Another uses for Cannonball is edgeguarding. It can be used in the same vein as a charge shot or other straight moving projectile with the added bonus of having a hitbox while it is descending which can hit low recoveries. For the first projectile I disagree with being on the list at all, it’s Corrin Dragon Fang Shot/Bite. If the whole move is being taken into account; for any character to have this move would be a blessing. It provides a solid b reverse option, a strong kill move (the Bite), a stunning projectile which CAN be used in neutral (though it may not be as effective as a character’s other options, it does provide a niche similar to ZSS Paralyzer), and an edge guarding and ledge trapping tool.. I just disagree with the placement of this move. Being able to stun an opponent is a huge advantage for any character to have which is why Pac Man Bell and the aforementioned ZSS Paralyzer and ZSS Down Smash are so good. The uses of the projectile itself (not including the Bite) range from a small stun to get a grab or quick tilt combo starter, to a large stun which offers a free kill confirm into a strong aerial, smash attack, tilt, or grab. Though this move is not great, I, once again, disagree with its placement on this list. A projectile I might’ve put on the list in its place would probably be Yoshi Up B Egg Throw. Again, since we’re considering the whole move on any character; having Egg Throw as a recovery to replace Up B on any character other than a character with a super big double jump would be a huge down grade. Disregarding the move as a recovery, the projectile itself isn’t good either. It’s a small move that does 6% damage and is -30 on shield, and it can be easily reacted to and avoided or attacked through since it doesn’t have a lot of priority similar to King Dedede Gordo. The whole move is 55 frames with 16 frame startup, meaning it has 39 frames of end lag with little to no benefit. If I am wrong about this, please reply, because I’d like to be enlightened, but I have little faith in this move/projectile. Now for a move that I don’t necessary disagree with its placement, but more so what I think was an oversight given the rules stated at the beginning of the video… I don’t think Ivysaur’s Bullet Seed wouldn’t be as bad as people think and on any character it might actually be really busted. As mentioned in a video about Kirby copy abilities by Phan7om, Bullet Seed can be used as a combo finisher to rack up a lot of damage which might be more than a character might be able to with just a standard combo. Given that a character has a move that can consistently be used to send opponents directly above you like Kirby and Falco Up tilt, Shiek Ftilt, Chrom landing up air, or a variety of character’s up throw/down throw; this can be used to rack up damage super quickly with little effort and allows for other moves to not stale and be fresh to do more damage/knockback later on. And finally, I feel like if you were going to talk about Dedede Up B, you could’ve also talked about Yoshi Down B as they have very similar properties, but I understand why it might’ve been left out as to not make the video repetitive. Though I disagreed with many things about this video, I still respect the opinions and still absolutely loved the video. It was super interesting and entertaining to watch and I look forward to more videos like this and just more videos in the future as I love the type of content created on this channel!

[@s3eriousbl9ck26]

Yea between Samus charge shot, Byleths arrow, and Snakes Nakita you went back in forth on how much you prioritize use in Neutral over edge guarding, which at some points you called... niche. It's just inconsistent.

[@Hugo-yz1vb]

Rico: "Kaboom?" Skipper: *"Yes Rico. Kaboom."*

[@artimist0315]

You just completely underrated corrin's dragon fang shot. It's not amazing, but it is definitely a viable secondary usage projectile, like peanut pop gun or paralizer. It can be confirmed into, and in general is just a good way to catch jump, that always have guarantied follow up. Shuriken of light also shouldn't be there, it is a good neutral tool, definitely better than the joke mii gunner's second neutral b is, it is just outclassed by chakram and is therefore never used. It is just spammable, not easy to avoid and in my opinion better than the links normal arrows, din's fire or falco laser. I also think you overrated thunderjolt, it is a great move but definitely the worst of you pick, mostly due to its startup.

[@SpyderBey]

Yes yes yes

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

As a Corrin main I vouch for Dragon Fang Shot. It's especially good at punishing opponents who get too close to Corrin considering that you can go from the small shot to the big bite really quickly. Also can aid in projectile wars as it's, well, a projectile.

[@Spyder-Marth]

@@dabluepittoo-aqua4213 Yep. It gets Corrin out of a lot of situations and it's EXTREMELY good for punishing. It even has a follow-up which is Side B. Does nobody know this? Even other Corrin players have no idea about this... Gosh why did Cosmos have to drop this character? I'm honestly mad now. But anyways, it seems like a lot of people throw Corrin in the trash because "another FE char" and/or "not as fast as others," while completing missing a ton of good things about this character.

[@AnRKader]

All I have to say about t jolt is just watch an Esam match. T jolt is oppressive beyond belief, and, much like pikachu himself, just because it’s hard to use properly doesn’t mean other people are overrating it

[@artimist0315]

@@AnRKader I'm not saying they are bad, but banana isn't even on the list. T jolt is a great projectile, but not the best in the game.

[@AverageDoctor345]

I mean, Gunner's Laser Blaze is just better Falco laser. It travels faster, further, and deals more damage. The only thing it loses out on is 2 less frames of startup, but this isn't the kind of move you should be using at close range so that extra startup doesn't really matter.

[@Ace_Jxyner]

18:11 I’m not the only one that realized that it says Neutral B Laser instead of Down B Gyro.. right? Lmao pretty sure it was just a mistake, but still a very good discussion about Gyro.

[@angeldude101]

Given all the Aegis footage used, I was kind of hoping to see how Blazing End and Ray of Punishment/Chroma Dust would do. Given Kaboom's spot, I figured Blazing End would get buffed from the ruleset ignoring it removing Pyra's attacks, but I guess it wasn't enough to get into the top 5 damaging projectiles (or it _was_ enough to get out of the _bottom_ 5 damaging projectiles).

[@HunteroftheNorth]

Little editing mistake. When you showcase Rob's Beyblade the title screen say's neutral B - laser.

[@thunder4374]

You should make a video making the best character by combining moves from different characters. For example you could have pyra down air and ivy up air

[@rude5059]

Did diddy’s banana not count for the second category?

[@Islanders61]

It did, but my thought was that since it can be picked up and used by both players, it is considered a worse projectile in the grand scheme. The banana itself might be better than Wolf's laser or ROB's gyro, but that fact that it can work against you hurts it. It still would make the top 10 though

[@rude5059]

@@Islanders61 I get that, still think the reward of a free smash attack at any percent for a low-commitment projectile far outweighs the risk

[@Harmless_Music]

@@Islanders61 ROB's Gyro disappears when you shield it. Is it still top 5 in your opinion? Genuine question.

[@Islanders61]

Yes, I think so. I think the best parts of the move are its trapping, stage control, and combing ability. It is a great move to throw out in neutral, but the fact that is disappears after shield does not drop it on the list since that is not its main use.

[@Cristeve]

If you don't actually consider the RNG a important factor, then Peach's Bob-omb should've been at least the second best killing proyectile, it goes extremely fast, kills super-early and as it is an item, you can smash-throw it for extra damage or throw it normally in many directions wherever you want or z-drop it

[@cruisetomiami375]

for the second list there are jus soo many good projectiles that couldve made it like flame arrows, turnips, jokers gun or bowsers fire breath and dedede gordo and yoshis egg😵‍💫 just so many

[@chordalharmony]

Gun isn’t a projectile, but yes otherwise

[@Moss_Dude]

I agree with most of the comments here, this list had some "pretty hot takes" to say the least. Ignoring everything on it I disagree with, Ptooie absolutely should've been mentioned for its use in basically every aspect. I can kinda understand though, there's a lot of people saying similar things so maybe you should've just included an "honorable mentions" section.

[@AwesomeMooseSmile]

If we're going to talk about Robin's Elwind, then I think the standard mii gunner up B is a little better. Sure it doesn't spike, but it kills pretty early around at about 90-110 off stage, and because of it's high launch rate it's really useful for gimping opponents since it's a fairly safe edgeguarding move as it sends you up pretty high, but I guess that's it's only real downside, that it has a lot of end leg because of how high you go up, unless you grab the ledge.

[@Tobykachu]

How can you simultaneously say that Snake’s cypher is saved by providing him protection whilst recovering, but then say that Dedede’s stars providing him protection is irrelevant to the list?

[@MetaTrixx]

This man put in work

[@Islanders61]

Thanks Trixx!

[@josephmiller7075]

In the context of Bowser junior's kit, the cannonball isn't bad. Firing off 2 uncharged cannonballs and a mechakoopa is very good for ledge trapping

[@kiandoshi7740]

The best and most informative smash vid ever

[@Harmless_Music]

Okay, so to preface this comment: I have respect for the amount of work you put into the video, from finding clips to cohesively organizing a thought process for this. Editing is hard work. Making an entire video is even harder. However, I have some massive problems with the video in general, from the information given, to some of the analysis provided, as much of it feels like misinformation. At the very beginning, the video is prefaced under the following: "These moves will be ranked as if they were on an arbitrary smash bros fighter. This does not mean they will be put on a specific character, but this video will look at how good the move would be if placed on any character in the cast in order to get the best ranking system." However, as the video proceeds, this particular guideline becomes less and less important, if not completely ignored. Wolf's lasers are compared to their importance in letting Wolf himself (and only Wolf) pressure with aggressiveness behind the laser, or force committal from the opponent. Pikachu's t-jolt literally has the phrase "it can only be used by Pikachu" used in its analysis, completely throwing the guideline out the window. At some point, the entire point becomes moot. Projectiles feel like they're listed purely on the user's place on common tier lists. Attributes of good projectiles feel overshadowed, because they're on characters perceived to be "low tier", or because they're only talked about on how good they are on a perceived "high/top tier". The idea of having global guidelines and niches to rank projectiles (kill moves, combo moves, etc) is a good idea on paper... but, along with excluding the projectile's place on a character and their moveset, it just doesn't work. Like you analyzed during the video, projectiles are so much more than just "how early they kill". Frame data, how safe they are on shield, how much space they deny (incredibly important, we'll get to that in a bit) are just as important, some more than others depending on what they do for a character. But with the guidelines you've provided, we're stuck only looking at kill power and how many opportunities you get to shoot/hit with the projectile. In this case, Mii Gunner's second side special, Stealth Bomb, should always be #2 at the very least, due to how early it kills (70-80% at battlefield plat or off-stage, 90%+ everywhere else), how fast the projectile is, and the setups possible with it. Or better yet, why not talk about Mii Gunner's third neutral special, Grenade, which almost always guarantees a 2 frame, all but guarantees tick throws on shield, and more? Imagine a character with kill throws, that now get tick throws from Grenade, or get a massive edge-guarding boost from it. It becomes impossible to gauge a projectile on its own, with the guidelines you've presented (which aren't even followed). Even if we were to continue establishing guidelines, niches, and more categories for projectiles, you missed the single most important category you could have used: Area denial. Projectiles are all about it. When you shoot a projectile and run behind it a la Guile's sonic boom in SF to apply pressure, you're also denying the space in front of you in doing so. Projectiles are scary not simply because of their kill power, or range, but because of how effective they are at denying space. In a fighter like Smash, where movement and airplay is emphasized more, this becomes even more important. This video completely misses that important aspect of space control, and as such, completely misses the point of projectiles. (And if we're going to still rank projectiles on their own, without being put on their character, Bowser Jr.'s neutral b placement is a massive anomaly. Imagine Bowser Jr.'s neutral B put on Puff. Suddenly, Puff has seventeen new ways to edge-guard her opponent. The projectile lingers for a very long time, and drifts downwards off-stage or when used in the air, meaning it can gimp opponents very effectively in conjunction with Puff's air speed and aerials.) As an aside, there's also some odd things in the video presentation wise that just feel hard to follow. On the first list, for example, ranks start at the third worst projectile, then jump to the third best, then go to the second worst, etc. It just feels really jarring to follow, and as a result, the analysis feels very scattered. This is just my opinion, though. Anywho, I just hope this helps improve the quality of future videos.

[@Islanders61]

Hey! Just wanted to reply to you to give some follow-ups and clarification so hopefully you can understand the video better. As for the guidelines in which I ranked the moves on the arbitrary character, I do try and consistently use this throughout the video. I may mention why it works with a given character's moves but that is only to point out why the move works for well. With Wolf I pointed out his good air speed and frame data to show how well it would work on a character with similar attributes. For Pikachu, the quote I said meant that T-jolt can only be used by Pikachu in the sense that it cannot be picked up and used against him like an item such as ROB's gyro. For the categories they were ranked it, refer to the intro of the video. The ranking of these moves was not based solely on that category, but rather that was a way to categories projectiles so they are ranked amongst similar moves. These are suppose to be the main use of the projectile, but many more are possible and they were ranked on all factors, but just their category's namesake. Thank you for replying though and trying to help out my making the videos next time. I just want to make sure that you understand aspects that were a bit confusing!

[@Harmless_Music]

​@@Islanders61 Hey, happy to see this response. I think part of the issue then becomes in that, if there's this many clarifications needed for the content provided, then it's just something to look out for in the next video. Being extraordinarily clear on the topics you're talking about is a very hard task in and of itself, but I'm glad you're taking good steps in working on that. Happy to hear you're being receptive of the comments provided. Keep up the good work in that sense.

[@SMOG8]

Bowser Jr.'s cannonball is not meant for just straight up killing. It is best used when one player is offstage because it is difficult for most characters to avoid and when Bowser Jr. is above the stage it grants him a landing option because it keeps enemies away from the ledge. It also deals huge shield damage and can hit multiple times through shield. If you space it right you can instant break shields if the opponent does not know how to dodge it correctly. I think that you just don't know how to use it correctly.

[@Baconbomber123]

Just a very small correction, but Snake's grenade does 1-5% depending on throw strength when hit physically hit by the nade, and the roughly 9% on the explosion, so it's not a guarenteed 18%. Very small distinction from your friendly neighborhood Snake main. Awesome video, love your content bro, keep it up!

[@bananaplane5494]

With Isabelle brown b you can sometimes force the opponent to shield and grab them. If I’m wrong I’m not an Isabelle main but I believe this works sometimes

[@booogagaming5223]

I don't think ivysor neutral b is a projectile and snakes cipher is good for blocking ledgetraps 2 frame attempts, fall off ledge spikes along other things. while still a bad move, i cant tell you how many times cipher has both annoyed me and saved me. Cipher is one of the only projectiles that can do this, i feel like yoshis down b projectile, much like king dedede stars is equally deserving as number 1 spot, so i would put those 2 as the worst niche projectiles.

[@G_Light500]

So with Bowser Jr. A fully charge one can do fat damage on shields. My roommate constantly almost breaks my shield with one shot

[@sebastian11037]

Yo, Ganons projectile is busted!!!

[@maxpogfrog]

Pretty good video, only complaints are the music being way too loud in comparison with the Mic, and also the comparison of samus’s lowchargeshot to mario’s fireball, as I feel it’s more comparable to falco, and wolf’s lazers. edit: forgot to mention but 18:11 is the section for gyro, yet laser is shown instead.

[@kaedenle]

6:26 medium charge shot is +4. Most samus' will go for it over fully charged because fully charged is more laggy, both on hit and on shield.

[@creeda.5337]

As a mii swordfighter main i was kinda mad when shuriken showed up but then got kinda sad when he wasnt wrong. I might drop swordfighter

[@tumultoustortellini]

you can hit the nikita to disable it. Most characters can sneak in a hit and still recover. It's not even close to the best edgeguarding move (mii gunner grenade launch neutral b)

[@ketz_165]

You haven’t played a good snake then if it isn’t oppressive.

[@tumultoustortellini]

@@ketz_165 I play pit and lucina, honestly I might be privledged

[@Harmless_Music]

@@ketz_165 Nah. Even against good snakes, nikita is good but by no means oppressive. Even with vertically launching recoveries, a single mixup or change in off-stage recovery can let you get back to ledge and avoid nikita pretty well. It's still a great move, but I'd argue Mii Gunner Grenade is way, way worse, since there's very little counterplay when off-stage. (I'm probably biased, though.)

[@dacrazypenguin7562]

One projectile: Duck Hunt can. Lol. It's the most versatile projectile in the game

[@righthandman408]

Huh, I'm wondering where you would put Sephiroth's Flare/Mega flare/Giga flare on killing projectiles.

[@Islanders61]

I would say it is alright. It is not that useful in neutral, but can be very helpful at ledge trapping, but since it is not that versatile, it does not make the top 3

[@Coach_Ax]

Nice video but how is fire arrow not top 5

[@VideoCentral-bh9tf]

This list kinda sad imo. No remote bomb in top 5? Lazer blaze and shurikin of light in bottom 5? Bowser Jr cannon worse than PK flash? And also no fully charged aura sphere?

[@Spyder-Marth]

Also Corrin's Fang Shot being considered as bad yet it has some of the most punishing uses ever? It even has a REALLY good follow-up: Side B, but that wasn't acknowledged.

[@VideoCentral-bh9tf]

@@Spyder-Marth we should play sometime

[@VideoCentral-bh9tf]

@@Spyder-Marth I wanna see what your FE characters got

[@Spyder-Marth]

@@VideoCentral-bh9tf that'd be nice! I am currently out of town so I will message you when I get back home. We should be able to play then.

[@VideoCentral-bh9tf]

@@Spyder-Marth nice, nice

[@snomroms4749]

Good lists overall besides worst kills. The mini version of ok flash is pretty good now after the buffs. Bowser he’s while still very niche has great shield damage and edgegaurd. Byleths uncharged is fine nothing good but the full charge is useless cause nearly every f smash kills before 65

[@lukasluna5319]

i loved this video really well done! the clips were really good just on some moves they didn't appear in the clip and snakes nuetral b is spelled wrong other than that I'd say samus charge shot is overall used more as a combo than a killing tool but that is just how the player uses it so ... thank you for this vid!

[@smoceany9478]

why do you count only fully charged byleth arrow but all forms of charge shot?

[@Blockoumi]

because it's considered a different projectile by the game. ness can absorb full charge but not normal arrow

[@smoceany9478]

@@Blockoumi oh, i didnt know, thanks

[@peterduprey7286]

The best niche projectile should be Mewtwo’s Disable, because you can kill at 70 with it with a fully charged down smash.

[@ketz_165]

Disable doesn’t fit the criteria in this list of being a side effect of the main move.

[@peterduprey7286]

But disable IS the move.

[@peterduprey7286]

But disable IS the move.

[@peterduprey7286]

But disable IS the move.

[@peterduprey7286]

But disable IS the move.

[@L00D__]

How is Mega Man not on this list? Not even as a mention?? His Metal Blade is one of the best item projectiles due to the combos/setups/kill confirms/pressure that it has

[@mbot1901]

I would say failnaught is also useful for mix ups by canceling it in the air or turning around with it

[@Islanders61]

I agree, but the fully charged version cannot do either and that is the move that was ranked in the video

[@mbot1901]

@@Islanders61 Oh okay I see

[@LuigiGreenFire]

As a Gunner secondary y Corrin Pocket i think Gunner laser (and Sword Fighter Shuriken) is worst that Corrin neutral B. Because can kill offstage or help to combo or make some edge traps (Roll or regular get ups)

[@maximeminassian6002]

Plus Dfs can murder your shield or you in general whereas Gl is almost always pointless

[@slatebeard]

I strongly disagree with snakes cypher as a bad projectile. You can use cypher aggressively to protect snake while going for upair. It basically makes snakes upair invincible since the moment he uses up air out of cypher, cypher will instantly disrupt anything the opponent will try to do to hit snake

[@Dino_Burger]

I hate how everyone always hates on bowser juniors cannojball, you just put it in the wrong category. As you said, it doesnt really kill or do that much damage, its meant for stage control at a distance

[@sethlast9024]

Shuriken of Light killed this man's grandma bro why he diss it that hard.

[@MARSHT0MP404]

8:54 incorrect. magic burst is the best edgeguarding tool if you have max mp. kills at 25 and invalidates every recovery and ledge option unless the opponent is far enough from the ledge, in which case theres a cool trick called waiting

[@Phun-Bun]

I'm gonna have a tall glass of "I don't give a fuck and use the worst projectiles anyway."

[@SiMgUrL1721]

Why didn't he talk about how Luigi's and Mario's projectile games are still some of the worst in the entire game? To this very day, Luigi still only has one projectile in "Ultimate". Mario may still have up to three projectiles in "Ultimate", but both his Cape and FLUDD moves are still extremely difficult to use as both effective Edgeguarding and Projectile tools. In the competitive Smash scene, I bet that almost nobody even uses Mario's and Luigi's fireballs since their fireballs are still slow, weak, and ineffective overall.

[@apple_axolotl6239]

How the islanders doing this season? Oh, oh wait...

[@hewhoinvadeshomes2272]

Great content looking forward to more

[@gaminggod8861]

is sephiroth's neutral special a good or bad projectile, and would it count toward killing or damage?

[@tripplordofinconvenience9953]

Kill

[@Islanders61]

I would put it as a killing projectile since that will be the main use for the move. As for how good it is, it depends on the circumstance. In neutral, it is too slow and laggy, but as a ledgetrapping tool it is great.

[@matthewhoward2189]

No shakanetsu? mad damage? shield break setups? Combo potential?

[@onlookerofthings6029]

18:13 Why'd you put ROB's neutral b on the title card?

[@Islanders61]

Genuine mistake

[@martingil1190]

Does greninja’s substitute doll count as a projectile? It does no damage but has interesting body blocking properties

[@Islanders61]

No it does. Since it cannot be reflected or pocketed it does not count

[@thederpyduckpond8926]

Bro how could you not include Mega Man? A.k.a. Projectile: The Character-

[@Rehp1cLLiB]

Question: How come u counted all versions of charge shot but not fail not? The uncharged is yes, no where near as much as the fully charged version when it comes to damage or killing.But still is not bad at doing damage or killing.It also covers the whole stage, good edge gaurding, VERY LONG RANGE and good at making your foe do something ( It can be canceled very fast so yes, it could be for example pulled out to make your foe jump and you punish for the foe doing it. It’s also not that slow due to it being the uncharged version and of course it would be faster. Sure it has its weaknesses but I don’t think it’s the 3rd worse in the whole game. Once again sure it’s not in top 3 or even top 10! But just not bottom 3.

[@Islanders61]

The reason for that is that the different charges of charge shot are the same move just on different stages. They always have the same physical properties, but with failnaught the first and second charge not only differ in strength, start-up, and range, but with their properties as well. The fully charged version cannot be pocketed, inhaled, and can be absorbed whereas the regular arrow cannot. That is the only reason why they were treated as two separate projectiles.

[@SetoMiga]

love lists like these!

[@AnRKader]

Imo whack is the best projectile in the game. Imagine having constant access to that kind of pressure

[@truefighter2420]

What's the name of the song at 20:15

[@Islanders61]

Wii Shop Channel

[@smoceany9478]

18:12 that says robs laser

[@otakujiji]

Thoughts on Ridley's neutral B?

[@Islanders61]

I think that this move is alright but has some big downfalls. It is very slow to get all of the moves out which means it is reactable. Also, if Ridley is hit in the start up frames, he takes extra damage. It is an alright edge guarding tool, but not much more

[@bluarrow4505]

I would say the best niche projectile is Banjo’s secondary neutral b, the Breegull Blaster. From a distance, it’s not very good, only inflicting flinching damage. It’s only use from a distance is to maybe interrupt a charging move, like Charge Shot, DK’s Punch, and Zelda’s Phantom. Up close is where the projectile shines. The projectile will pop opponents straight up from close to medium range allowing for many combos. You can do a few ladders in the air like breegull-breegull-uair/nair/bair, or cancel it to perform kill confirms like breegull-uilt/breegull-wonder wing/breegull-fsmash. The move turns Banjo from a mediocre mid tier that can’t kill very early, to a pretty good high mid tier that can kill at sub 100%

[@Hamudi518]

pichus projectile is litrally a better version of pikachus

[@froggy1069]

Pk freeze is also pretty strong

[@squishybearguts2321]

PK Freeze is the greatest kill projectile of all time. No debate.

[@colingamer5073]

Not really.

[@StoryTeller796]

@@colingamer5073 Well, it is a great KO projectile at high percents when it is impossible to break out of it, or at least better than Byleth's, the best is debatable though because of the one fact that there are others that can rival it.

[@power0029]

It’s predictable horizontal trajectory and moderate startup hold it back unfortunately

[@squishybearguts2321]

@Dr Power predictable if you dont know how to use it

[@power0029]

Squishy Bearguts no actually. I mained Lucas in 4 and the start of Ultimate. If your opponent has a single brain cell, they’ll just recover low and there’s really nothing you can do about it. Down smash, f tilt, and especially Thunder are far better options.

[@jackyfudge5115]

Is neutral supposed to be misspelled for rob? Also it says Laser but you talk about Gyro lol

[@HockeySSBU]

When you realize your main doesnt have a projectile (puff)