THE BIG CARD GAME TALK feat.

[@VenatorXVenator]

I figured it out, Rarran hates yugioh because it has semi-colons.

[@ErosIRL]

Bro hates complicated language

[@shwedoo-6035]

@@ErosIRL Complicated language is the result of their inability to explain it in simple terms. It's just incompetence, not something to be proud of.

[@ErosIRL]

@@shwedoo-6035 some things can’t/shouldn’t be boiled down and easily digestible. Idk if Yugioh or coding apply but I don’t think what you said is entirely true

[@masterduelzero1795]

​@shwedoo-6035 this one honestly makes no sense to me. Yu-Gi-Oh already has a lot of text, something Yu-Gi boomers and anti-Yu-Gi-Og people already complain about. So then why are you asking for more text? Semi-colons and colons basically act as a keyword just much shorter.

[@grimrapper5202]

​​​@@shwedoo-6035yeah just make simple language that easy to understand like "When summoned, destoy all opponent card. This card effect cannot be interrupt by card effect" because we prioritize people who can't read rather than TCG principle in general You either got made-up keyword like mtg and slap 5 of them on 1 card or just up to 3 unique effect with different benefit/cost balance for each card (and another 2 for pendulum, but nobody likes pendulum anyway) Imagine calling a 25+ years game as " incompetence", but needed a dictionary of made-up keyword in order to play the game and an entire new format to keep the game alive 😂

[@safanmalik7978]

I would never be upset if the podcast goes longer than 1hr 30 min. Go for 4 hrs I’ll still listen to all of it.

[@shanekarazuki]

5 hours of Yugioh yapping is just calming for some reason. Other TCGs are nice so long as I'm familiar. Lol

[@yuricahere]

rarran guest starring in YGO content has been one of the best redemption arcs

[@bijuutamer729]

Rarran going from hanging out with just Stevie is already a redemption arc

[@budderk1305]

you don't need to be redeemed by ugeeoh

[@byeguyssry]

33:38 To elaborate: Toast played Yogg-Saron which casts a random spell (could be any spell in the entire game) for each time you've cast a spell this game (which in this case was around 15), which randomly cast Mindgames, which summons a copy of a RANDOM minion from the enemy deck, which happens to pull Mecha-Thun, which, on death, wins the game if you have no cards in hand, in deck, or on board (furthermore, the opponent didn't maindeck Mecha-thun. It was added by a card that randomly adds 5 minions of legendary rarity to deck). Then Yogg randomly casts Myra's Unstable Element, the only card that destroys your entire deck, then randomly casts Cataclysm, the only spell that discards your hand and destroys all minions on field.

[@adewilyan8030]

Thank you for the explanation, truly once-in-planet's lifetime magical chance!

[@jorda8915]

This was in wild too which meant that it included a much bigger pool of spells and legendaries than standard which made the chances of this even smaller.

[@sladevalen]

Digimon TCG needed an official simulator so bad. I've only been able to play with friends when it released but the gameplay is so much fun and needs to be easier to get access to

[@geek593]

Me but with Shadowverse Evolve. We need an EDOPro.

[@Geffelboy]

Digimon TCG just got an unnoficial automatic Simulator. look up DCGO its great fun

[@TechnicalHiccup]

There is actually an unofficial simulator now made Hoang Zero

[@djeldj]

Issue digimon is getting power crept faster then yugiohs is crazy

[@four-en-tee]

So does Cardfight Vanguard Zero is alright at best

[@wantsomecandy9531]

"Nah Im good bro" is still the best stuff ramranch ever said

[@wantsomecandy9531]

Btw (1:21:56) Legends of Runeterra is in the Leagueclient since a week or some shit like

[@wilhelmbecknee5870]

Am I crazy? This is the best episode of the cast. I don't even play hearthstone or runeterra and I was so tuned in the whole time. You guys need him on more, it was so cool seeing you guys talk about all these other card games at this level with someone whose keeping up. Please bring ramran on your podcast again

[@elainasjournal5734]

Rarran is simply a very good talker, very entertaining, and he also knows a lot of stuffs. A perfect guest for the cast, I would say.

[@adewilyan8030]

​@@elainasjournal5734 agreed, feels like he perfectly filled the middle spot to bridge the comically farfa and josh's competitiveness, the mix of both worlds

[@colorfulmoth]

Yeah, I always end up coming back to this one. Honestly, this is the episode I liked the most. Really hoping for a part two discussing rotation

[@elainasjournal5734]

Same, I keep listening to this episode specifically since almost everything they talked about here are timeless and very enjoyable. Really really want to have Rarran on the podcast once again.

[@minabasejderha5972]

Someone needs to explain utility lands to Farfa.

[@Doombacon]

I think lands are interesting mechanically as long as the format has mechanically interesting lands, which is pretty typical in current mtg. Having to balance between being able to tap for the right colors, having enough lands that come into play untapped, and lands with powerful utility effects is an actually cool deck building challenge.

[@adewilyan8030]

Best video on the channel by far! Each cast does their job so well. Although the subject is kinda massive (I played most of them), we can still hear Ranran's opinion from a casual perspective, Josh as competitive, and Farfa directing to make it flow perfectly. Well done guys!

[@NaughtyNina1240]

Rarran is the 2nd youtuber that I know who is named after a card game, but not the primary card game they are playing. 1st one is MBT.

[@LordSteeleCastleClashPsteele68]

Marincess Blue Tang?

[@aswadg4mer360]

Mono blue tron is a deck i think not a card

[@WordoftheElderGods]

@@aswadg4mer360 Close enough.

[@killuafan4365]

Rarran's name is based on a card game?

[@crisscore157]

​@@killuafan4365yugioh

[@four-en-tee]

I've been saying this for about a year or so now (and the whole custom games discussion in this video kinda touches on this), but this game desperately needs a larger homebrew scene.

[@JonNuclear]

Glad to see so more guests recently, love these episodes Also love to see the Chaotic mention, also crazy that only Rarran had even heard of it, that game was MASSIVE back in the day even if that time did not last long. It had a super cool approach to how you got digital cards with their codes, also was one of the very first online battle simulators ever

[@Otzkar]

"theres no maxx c in coding" memory leak?

[@FashionBarbie]

Integer Overflow feels closer.

[@Ragnarok540]

Bugs?

[@four-en-tee]

​@@Ragnarok540 Bugs are basically the equivalent of missing timing.

[@awqweird]

The reason why flood gates recieve less hate in magic is that theyre usually more specific hate cards, generally less powerful and cost mana.

[@awqweird]

The existence of the extra deck in yugioh also causes problems where you rely on it for your answers to things so you feel less good putting generic removal in your main deck than in magic where mid range/control decks in magic are more likely to have answers to things.

[@LorisEnsatzuken]

Plus color locked (so not as easy to splash) and most of the worst are very old and locked away thanks to rotation from the formats where they would be impactful.

[@awqweird]

@@LorisEnsatzuken yeah like the colorless ones are like chalice of the void, gravediggers cage or pithing needle that are all way more specific and older format like you said

[@geek593]

There's also a cost to them.

[@awqweird]

Also of note the format full of spells that cost 0 and 1 vintage, flood gates were better in it and cards like thorn and lodestone golem are restricted

[@NinaNinaM24]

45:45 I was panicking so hard here thinking my pc was shitting itself.

[@MelosWoodlanders]

Same haha

[@maxa7535]

I know he was just on, but i think you should have MBT back on for if you have an episode about rotation. Seeing as he tried to implement one and it got dropped, he could provide some insight into yugioh specifically bring rotated and the challenges had here that wouldnt be in other TCGs

[@FlareBlossom]

wait so it got dropped? sooo basically MBT tried to prove that rotation can happen in yugioh and he failed/ proved the opposite? has his opinion changed about rotation in yugioh then?

[@geek593]

@@FlareBlossom The only thing he proved was that he can't keep a series going for very long and that he has a habit of marketing good ideas wrong. If he hadn't said a word about it being planned to be a rotating format and instead showed it off as a curated format that showed how the game can be fun with strict and deliberate card curation it would have been a lot less contentious. The format was extremely fun to test in but he stopped working on it three sets in because it wasn't getting the views of traction it needed to justify working on it. So the main premise of the title never actually happened because it would only happen had him and his team worked on it for almost a year. Still doesn't stop people from saying "x is why rotation could never work". To me it sparked my interest in Yugioh's potential if Konami actually went the Magic, Pokemon, and Vanguard route and designed for self contained lower power formats instead of chasing the eternal format power creep off a cliff. Less options can be better for a TCG.

[@maxa7535]

@FlareBlossom my understanding was it was more of a time issue. The time needed to meticulously refine sets and formats was more then he anticipated and more work then could reasonably be asked of a small team. A mega company like konami would have the resources but at the end of the day MBT is just one guy

[@NeoBoneGirl]

People think it didn't work because Yugioh for some inextricable reason doesn't work with rotation? It was pretty obviously cuz people were watching and it wasn't worth it to keep maintaining

[@DotonDomu]

I really like the chemistry between rarran and joshua, maybe we see a podcast between them in the future that goes much deeper into different cardgames in general. Also farfa, please don't say when a podcast needs to end. It feels less "organic", if there is a good show don't end it too soon or kill the vibe. If you guys are too busy please reschedule it, quality over quantity, at least for me. Don't worry too much about how much is a podcast going to last, if a podcast is good people are going to watch/listen to that 3+h. Maybe not everything in the same day but they will listen to it. Keep up the good work guys!

[@ThetrueKidGoku]

Can't wait until Joshua Schmidt rates Heartstone cards soon on Rarran's channel

[@marmal612]

56:52 One thing that MTGA has that MD or HS doesn't is its draft. You don't only keep the cards you draft for your collection, but their rewards are cards and gems (premium currency) so the game rewards your ability by "going infinite" and keep collecting cards and wildcards.

[@apeflight5553]

​@rickmel09 Arena is not draft (and you don't keep the cards)

[@apeflight5553]

@rickmel09 That's just facts. It's not a draft mode. Call it whatever else you want but it has very little in common with draft.

[@wogna96]

​@@apeflight5553 Why is it not draft? It's called like that in the client and everybody else calls it that way. Also you 100% keep the cards.

[@apeflight5553]

@@wogna96 Doesn't play like a draft so it's not a draft. It's a limited format, but that does not equal drafting. A draft includes passing around cards to other players and getting cards back. Also, unless they changed it, HS Arena is a Phantom event, you never kept your cards from that.

[@wogna96]

@@apeflight5553 Ohh i think I know were the confusion comes from. I was talking about MTG Arena, which is the primary client for Magic. Sorry, my bad.

[@Jaybugkit]

Fantastic discussion about card games in the later half, especially comparing resources and their clients. Rarran’s point about pulling existing players away to other card games is big because for me while I never spent money on Shadowverse I invested a lot of time and it was hard to stop playing until the end and I’m still waiting on its reboot. Yugioh I’ve invested time and having the physical connection as well. That’s why even though I played Runeterra and enjoyed it, it didn’t pull me away for as long from Shadowverse which I loved competitively

[@elainasjournal5734]

SVWB waiting gang

[@joshdavis6830]

I have to say, as someone who has spent money on Arena and Master Duel, the Master Duel economy and crafting system are much more reasonable. I can spend $100 a month on Master duel and it feels worthwhile, and that's not the case for MTG Arena. Being able to craft down a deck to finish another is particularly key in Master Duel's affordability

[@joshdavis6830]

On floodgates in Yu-Gi-Oh! vs magic, in magic the cards that out floodgates are typically very playable in other situations and make your main deck anyways. Blood Moon does shut the game down, but if you play basics and draw them it does nothing, and everybody has a main deck out to Blood Moon. Also most Stax pieces don't shut you off from playing the game the way a Skill Drain or Barrier Statue statue do, even staples like Thailia and Chalice of the Void are only extremely good against certain matchups, who usually deserve the hate. Games are also longer, giving you more time to draw your out. Playing Cosmic Cyclone feels way worse than playing Boseiju Who Endures, and you'll have more time to top deck into it.

[@ramadhanbenny6640]

ur rate can still be as low as 1 per 20 packs, and not even one you can use💀

[@xCorvus7x]

1:00:01 In the YGO handheld games, Tag Duels don't mean double the handtraps since from each team, only the player whose turn it is (or was last) gets to use cards. It's as if each team only had one seat at the table: if your turn rolls around, you take the seat and stay there until your teammate's turn.

[@KixMusaid]

this is by far the best episode yet

[@traplover6357]

1:30:34 Farfa's worst take that cut Rarran's cam 😂

[@gbatista20]

I loved Duel masters, it was very easy to understand, every nation(color) had unique playstyles, the evolution mechanic was awesome and was fast paced. The first 3 sets where broken and the laters just added some useful cards but still was fun times

[@Atestinal]

I've never played that Disney card game, but the idea that they gave "dead" cards in hand some utility sounds really cool. Rarran and Farfa talked about how new players might get overwhelmed trying to get into ygo. I'm not a new player, been playing since the near the start, but I took a break in 2022. I've been considering jumping back in, started watching ygo content again, but honestly the catchup on what I've missed has kind of been putting me off. Even before my 2022 break, I was falling behind a bit. Not trying to be critical or promote set rotation or anything, just sharing my current experience.

[@MRkriegs]

Imagine u have not played at all since 2005...

[@JerrySpringerl]

Can we have timestamps on these please?

[@leviathan5207]

Be the change you want to see in the world :)

[@TrixKitt]

The worst part about the Legends of Runeterra talk is they did add a button in the league client, but it was like this week, months after killing the game

[@MRkriegs]

Is the game worth trying out? Is it free to play? I play league and Hs/Yugioh

[@esrohm6460]

i have to say that on a basis are lands in mtg may be bad, but due to them being real cards, instead of just mana crystals of something like that, and them also being treated like real cards, unlike energy in pokemon, is there a lot of unique design space. creature lands being a perfect examply as they are literally creatures that are lands when you need mana for other spells. but now the best energy system i have ever heard of is digimon with its mana crystal like system. but instead its that you can cast anything you want but for every mana crystal you spend but do not have thats mana the opponent gets. it has still the non out of hand spiraling effects of no mana but also not the frustrating i can't cast my spells of mana

[@Folfire]

Well that's part of the reason I take these opinions generously. It is very different for someone unfamiliar with the game to talk about lands, because in their mind, lands are ONLY lands. Wizards itself has recognized lands that are only lands are bad, so their design has now turned to make the worthy lands things with utility. The moment YGO players talk about lands as ONLY lands, then I hear them but do not take those opinions harshly, they simply "don't know what it means" in terms of design space.

[@MansMan42069]

​@@Folfire If the fix for the problem of lands being nothing more than "just lands" is to make lands that aren't just lands, that begs the question why Basic Lands are still a thing at all. Why intentionally keep a land type that's self-admittedly bad? Why not just make Non-basic lands the base level?

[@leadpaintchips9461]

@@MansMan42069 Because the space that they occupy is necessary. They might be 'bad', but they are the baseline that every other land is improved upon. They don't have deck limits, they don't have additional costs.

[@yoggalo1766]

@@MansMan42069 because basic lands have the upside of being really hard to interact with

[@SoupServerdCold]

“Wildcards” are for magic. You can get a pack that’ll have them randomly and they come in all rarity’s 55:43

[@SoupServerdCold]

Or after buying so many packs you get “wildcards” for free. It’s like 4 packs (uncommon) , 6 (rare), 8-10 (mythic)

[@rufuspilula247]

59:00 To be fair, YGO Tag duels can be fun, but it depends on the format and the era. And they were extremely popular between 2007 and 2014 because of the Tag Force video games. They literally have hundreds of thousands of downloads across several "high seas" websites, some of them (TF 3 and TF 5) almost reaching 1 million downloads. Also, Farfa got the rulings wrong, although the OCG and TCG had completely different concepts of tag duels so maybe that's the difference. In the actual tag duels in OCG, they literally meant you "tag out" between players in a team. So team mates share the field/gy/banishment, but only 1 hand/deck/extra deck are "active" at a time, and you swap them with your team mate as your opponent ends their turn. Meanwhile in the TCG they introduced an alternate tag duel format later on which had a different rule, where both team mates have their hands available at the same time meaning you could literally have 10 hand traps to prevent the first team from playing. But I'm pretty sure in neither of them you started with 16000 LP.

[@PharaohofAtlantis]

I wish I could write 40,000 words here on Lands vs Mana per turn vs "Inking" (also see Flesh and Blood) vs the Tug-of-War style resources. It's so so interesting.

[@geek593]

"Auto mana shifts the stress over to card design while lands shift the stress onto the player." is the best way I've heard it described.

[@daveclarke1990]

The excitement of getting an Ace in poker comes from the possibility of getting a 2 or 3. Having lands be dead draws increases the tension of each draw and the excitement of drawing what you need. When every card is a deck is an Ace or a face card then you never get the frustration of drawing a 2 but drawing an Ace is never that exciting. What @geek593 calls stress could just as easily be called excitement.

[@MansMan42069]

Spongebob: "𝓣𝓱𝓮"

[@EFDNora]

​@@daveclarke1990Thats so much Stockholm syndrome omg, like no its frustrating

[@PyckledNyk]

As a CS grad, the conversation Josh and Rarran had for a brief moment about programming languages made me happy lol I was taught programming with C++ for better or for worse, and it made it easier to learn subsequent languages. I think Python may be my personal favorite since it’s basically C if it were written by someone who isn’t a STEM major haha

[@veszeljko7645]

Python's obssession with Mapping/Dictionaries is absolutely beautiful, such a simple concept and some dude based a whole language around it and to add on top of that, made it very readable

[@dvsavocs5290]

@@veszeljko7645 python based

[@Lcngopher]

Magic the gathering arena has implemented a format called gladiator that was a singleton format the community created. They dont have it as a main format you can just play against randos but a deck can be built as a gladiator deck and played against friends. Occasionally they run a mid week event using the format

[@Shadowbot074]

Been loving these longer episodes with guests. Some interesting topics this week.

[@Boxyfennec]

i used to play HS then got into yuigoh after quitting HS and magic for yugioh. As someone who keeps up with content for all card games this is awesome

[@saitougin7210]

1:26:00 Hm, so the mana system in Lorcana is essentially almost the same as in "Monopoly - the card game". There you can also decide wether you want to play an event card for its effect, or to just use it as the money value printed on it and put it into your bank.

[@Yousefbarakat310]

When Rarran said, "What is a floodgate?" I started questioning my life choices.

[@footballzwt]

building your landbase right is arguably one of the most important things to go from good to great in magic because you have to know what your curve should be in terms of when you need what colors, how many of any given color you are likely to need, how many turns in a row you need to hit land drops to hit your curve correctly, is it better to get flooded or screwed, etc. It definitely can be, and has been, done better from a fun perspective, but from a skill perspective I think lands in magic add a lot of depth in a boring skill that has the same feeling as doing your taxes or learning the most basic line of a new YGO deck. Then there is also utility lands that are not primarily mana producers but take that oh so important land drop, so you have to convert the theoretical advantage from deckbuilding into actual wins by playing the right cards at the right time not just play a land on your turn because it is a land. I fully understand people not liking lands because they are boring and on the surface seem to just make the game worse but there are a lot of intricate advantages that a good player gets from the lands so it is an integral part of the game's skill not a throwaway mistake that can/should be fixed.

[@petrri323]

I would argue that understanding the true depth and impact of lands is what marks someone as being actually decent at MTG. Even more-so in eternal formats like Legacy and Vintage where Strip Mine, Wasteland, and other busted utility lands are prevalent. I would liken the land drop in Magic to the Single Normal Summon allowed on a YGO turn. Ostensibly it seems to be less impactful because you are only able to do it once per turn; however, the reality is that you can only do it once because it's BROKEN. So being able to best utilize that single allowed action to its fullest potential is a mark of a good player.

[@tanthientruong3820]

first time listening to a whole episode because i do enjoy just hearing about other card games and such. seems like you guys still have more thing to talk about when rarran come back

[@Dustinbvb96]

Great episode! Rarran was a great guest as well :)

[@Kralex121]

"I'm sure it got inspired from somewhere" "Duel Masters" :D "What's Duel Masters?" "Exactly." :(

[@HouseBeoulve]

CHAOTIC MENTIONED!!!

[@the7deadlysins13]

Loved this episode, would love to see Rarran featured more on Heart of the Cast.

[@sinfinite7516]

Can you guys put those timestamp sections that other podcasts do that highlight each topic your going over?

[@Rahochusosu]

1:32:40 They could just open the test server for a limited time and then close it, people have all the cards there but after they close it they have to go to the real game to play as always. I've played a MMO that does this for new updates so they can get more data on the new patches and people just play it because they want to try the new things before other people.

[@westhescrub]

Wizard101 did this and I loved it when I used to play.

[@NouMPSy]

The WOW TCG had the most fun land/mana system, where any card could be put facedown and used as a mana, but then you had to make the decision to make that card no longer available to be played normally for the rest of the match. Added a nice layer of strategy and thinking

[@benvarley2927]

Can you please change todays topic to todays guest?

[@Goldenfire49]

I personally still think the best mana system in a card game was Duel Masters. Any card potentially becoming mana made you think a lot about if x card was gonna be needed later or not.

[@elainasjournal5734]

Plus, since any multi-color card would just be better than mono-color card when put into mana, so they made those multi-color card can’t be used immediately on the turn they put in mana. It’s really well-designed.

[@four-en-tee]

I havent personally played anything like Lorcana or Digimon TCG yet, but Cardfight Vanguard has an excellent resource system. The only thing holding back that game is the nations/clan system (not necessarily from a balancing standpoint, but from a product standpoint; its hard as fuck to construct sets for Vanguard because, much like Yugioh, a set may just have nothing in it for a certain type of player).

[@sammydray5919]

Also doesn't help that Bushi is a garbage company when it comes to managing the game. Rebooted the game twice before it even reached its 10 year anniversary and almost killed the game multiple times. Freaking hell 😮

[@jaeaik]

What I learned from this podcast is that Josh is cracked at basically every card game he touches LMFAO.

[@definitelynotmany4972]

1:55:20 Skulking Winner and Sticky Hands are good examples of floodgates on Hearthstone. If you were playing Weapon Rogue and someone used Sticky Fingers, your deck no longer works. Same with Jade Druid and Skulking Winner

[@pozertron]

Lands don't have to be blank cards (Basic Lands) there are non basic lands that serve the same purpose, only they come with secondary effects that can make or break a duel. Be it more than 1 mana, the ability to make your attack unblockable, draw cards, destroy other lands, board wipe lands, blanket protection lands. Those are the kinds of effects you could have on a land and it's essentially a free card as you don't pay anything to play a land.

[@MansMan42069]

Begs the question why basic lands are still a thing at all

[@pozertron]

@@MansMan42069 Most search effects, only search for basics, as Non-basics are kinda broken. Also non-Basics usually have drawbacks, like coming in tapped, or requiring you to bounce another land you control back to hand when you play them.

[@MansMan42069]

@@pozertron Makes you wonder why non-basics are printed broken when they could just be printed fairly and still be more than "just lands".

[@pozertron]

@@MansMan42069 powercreep

[@apeflight5553]

​@@MansMan42069There's enough complexity elsewhere, some basics are completely fine.

[@saitougin7210]

41:00 Yu-Gi-Oh Omega has a lot of customization options, if you want that in Yu-Gi-O. And they constantly expanding it. (Okay, maybe not constantly, but you get the idea.) Trinity format, Enki format etc.

[@tbaggins5349]

I also watched arcane because i play runeterra. I think yall nailed it with the problem with the game. Legitimately it is the single BEST visual experience ive ever gotten from a card game.

[@randommaster06]

More than anything, playing multiple card games is the best thing any TCG player can do. On rotating formats, it's a social contract between the devs and players. the players agree that the main format puts a timer on cards while the devs agree to manage a smaller format. If either side breaks that contract, you end up in power-creep hell.

[@regista4]

Great discussion, the LoR part really made me sad though. In terms of fundamental design it really felt like they'd taken the best bits of Magic and Hearthstone and got close to perfecting it with the innovations mentioned like spell mana and how they handled priority. They did so much else right too, it's such a shame they couldn't get the monetisation or the marketing right. I wish it worked because most other card games are so expensive to play but there just was never enough incentive to spend money and that only got worse once they added Path of Champions - it was a really cool mode but it took even more people away from competitive so there was even less reason to buy cosmetics. Now waiting for an official digital client for Lorcana 🙏

[@colorfulmoth]

Ok, after finishing the episode, I must say that I'd love another episode discussing card game theory with Rarran.

[@MansMan42069]

Card Game Roundtable with Josh, Rarran, Professor, and other creators/players would be a wonderful thing

[@Yutsa_TCG]

I wish you talked about Altered. It is a new tcg releasing in september. It has pretty much lorcana mana system, a pretty innovative gameplay and an official client where you'll be able to use your real cards (they all have unique QR codes). I d love to hear your opinion on it

[@naqib_2365]

1:18:52 Farfa brings up a great point here that I don't think gets talked about enough when LoR's troubles as a free to play card game are discussed. Here's my take: Free-to-play games that are monetized solely by cosmetics that do not have any in game benefits are a largely unproven monetization model. Riot proved it could work with League of Legends. But I think they didn't really analyze why it worked with LoL. LoL has a gameplay style where everyone is incentivized to play a handful of champions instead of playing with anyone in the entire roster. Most of the time a player is better of playing their main rather than going meta. This builds a sense of loyalty to the main. Players really feel like they are their main in game. That motivates players to buy skins for their main. And once you buy a skin, you can look at that skin all game. Even if you have a kda of 0/17/0 and spend more time dead than alive, you can still appreciate you elemental Lux, k/da akali or pool part gragas the entire 45 minutes. That's not the experience with skins in LoR. If you are a Lux fan, you draw her card at turn 5 and then look wistfully as you get killed by an aggro deck before you get the chance to play her. Or you do win the game but playing well and winning the game requires you to not play your expensive 5 drop and instead play another card. Or best case scenario, you drop her on turn 5 and win on turn 8 and you got to see the skin you paid money for a grand total of 3 turns. Skins are just not as valuable in a card game like LoR for this reason. I think this proves that f2p monetization with only cosmetic skins that don't effect gameplay can work, but the gameplay needs to facilitate that monetization. It's a model that can't just be tacked onto any game. If LoR was designed more so that the champions are there on the field from start to end, their health is the players health, and the whole deck revolves around them, the champion skin monetization might have worked. Games like Flesh and Blood, Pokemon or Duelyst or even Hearthstone is closer to this. But with the game they made, this monetization model just didn't work.

[@ettoreozzy9932]

In magic people really hate floodgates as well. But I think there are different types and different impacts on them which is why they aren't that hated... Also I think nothing is more hated in magic than land destruction which is not really a floodgate but also doesn't let you play. Like a Thalia effect (non creature spells cost 1 more) is less hated than a Blood Moon (non basic lands become mountain). Thalia has a much less impact on you than Blood Moon since you can still play your cards but at a higher cost. And Thalia is usually more easy to remove than Blood Moon - specially since Blood Moon might make so you can't even play cards if you are not playing any red cards. Also cards like Rest in Peace (exile graveyards and cards go to exile instead of grave) don't really hurt "normal" decks that much as in Yugioh, since in Yugioh everybody is using a bunch of effects in the graveyard not only just on the field/primary cast of the spell. So the decks that get shut down hard by a card like Rest In Peace are usually degenerative graveyard decks that are playing a bit unfair so you kinda had it coming and also already have a plan to try to deal with graveyard hate in your sideboard - like enchantment removal or a blue spell bounce so you can combo off after returning to the hand the graveyard hate card. Other effects like Deafening Silence (players can't cast more then one spell per turn) are kinda like Thalia where they are hurting you and most normal decks get affected by it but it's not that effective and so it will only be used against a combo deck that will really get hurt by it. So people don't really complain that much about it.

[@akuda226]

yknow funny thing about Shadowverse is that we're moving to a new game called Shadowverse worlds beyond in like....june or july, basically a whole new client while the old game is gonna be in an eternal maintenance mode basically, but its basically a whole new game, better UI design (bc heres the thing, Shadowverse was made with mobile first, then PC bc Cygames is mostly a mobile game company, unlike HS which was PC first then mobile,so thats why it feels so closed in terms of UI) so idk, maybe Rarran will like how the game looks in the new client

[@hurrdurrmurrgurr]

Since Rarran is really into Slay the Spire he has to try Monster Train, the competitive mode where you're racing a bunch of other players to clear the board first is exactly what he's looking for.

[@crisscore157]

It would be so nice if you would get snnuy on the podcast too, as main runeterra creator And another fun fact about runeterra. Not only did they make the game massively f2p, but they even stopped you from p2w too much. They put a limit on how many wild cards you can buy per week or month (cant remember the cooldown). Even if you wanted, which you didnt need to bc it was so f2p, you just couldnt buy an infinite amount off wild cards to make any deck instantly. Even their versions off a battlepass didnt help much. I think they cost like 10 bucks (maybe 20, cant recall), they have a nice amount off nice stuff (like 3 skins, a good amount off rare cards and other stuff) and they stay for 3 months. So you cant buy them often, its 4 per year, they are pretty cheap and have imo a good value. They might not be as free as in master duel, but i mean, the game itself is literaly free af, so yeah.

[@definitelynotmany4972]

43:59 Another problem is that for time Wizard, people need to build 1 deck, and they are done, compared to the actual format where they must buy cards constantly.

[@SnappzGM]

I like how they are talking about runtara being in the league client and the just did an update that put that button in. Like 2 days ago

[@jonathanbenzin3780]

As someone who learned the game of yu-gi-oh upon master duel’s release, I can say that it is indeed possible to get into the game from scratch. You have to walk through the fire but it can be done

[@xCorvus7x]

31:56 In YGO this variance also exists but maybe it stems more from misplays, so if your opponent is good this is significantly less likely to happen. I remember clapping stun players in Master Duel events simply because I don't surrender immediately and eventually they make mistakes. E. g. one opponent had 200 LP left and summoned Freki in Attack position to mill me but they also had Skill Drain up, so Shrouded Albion just attacked for game under TCBOO and Rivalry.

[@Touffy029]

I loved Legends of Runeterra, the turn structure and mana system is really good. Where LoR failed was marketing (it wasn't publicized at all), card design (which in my opinion at least, got less interesting and balanced as time went on), but above all monetization: it was very player-friendly, to the point where you could easily own every single card as a f2p player without much effort. They wanted to monetize only around skins and collectibles, but obviously it just didn't work out economically.

[@jacobcoates7987]

Did Rarran forget he played yugioh with cimo?

[@senatheEND]

When Josh mentioned dual Masters I lost my mind I'm still playing dual Masters via Their online client dual Masters plays It by far has the best Mana system

[@J_BYYX]

Spellweaver is probably the best one at having dedicated "land" cards.

[@Nightshroud8]

I really wish Master duel would let us decraft legacy pack cards cause it turns into shiny bulk that no one interacts with

[@justusdinut7662]

I loved CHAOTIC!!! The Lizard Faction was awesome

[@zengamer321]

now we need another podcast episode with mbt to talk about magic. it feels criminal to talk so much about magic without MarincessBlueTron

[@bigbobbybutters7562]

Man. Looking at Lorcana, I wish Duel Masters took off in the west. It's very fun.

[@lifequality]

Duel Masters was the best. Well maybe not the best but it was and still is in Japan, such a great idea for a TCG. Considering it never left in Japan, why not risk another re-release? Not Kaijudo or such a thing but a propper DM release.

[@sammydray5919]

God I remember playing the Duel Masters GBA games back in the day lmao. Good times. I was horrible at it but it was fun though

[@boosh7948]

DUEL MASTERS MENTIONED!!!

[@saitougin7210]

58:00 Officially YGO doesn't have a 4player Commander format. However, there is this dude out there promoting very passionately his "Domain Format" which is according to him "essential Commander Yu-Gi-Oh". www.youtube.com/@yugiohcommander

[@nicolmanninc3578]

Might be my favorite episode so far as a dude that loves alot of card games this is cool yall gotta get some other card game guys on too

[@SpearMKW]

typing stuff as im watching the vod -Yeah i crafted a bunch of cards like Pot of Greed for the 2004 Challenger Cup which i'll sadly never get to play again. -The main reason i know Kripp is because of another creator i know called Masmorra accidently taking his bag at the 2015 WSVG Lan lmao (i am an AoE2 player at heart).

[@EvilShadex101]

Ironically enough they made the in-client LOR button AFTER the game died

[@temetyly]

If and when digimon gets a client, I'm so in. Just off the IP alone, it's embedded in my childhood heart right next to pokemon with the series and games, but the mechanics sound super interesting to.

[@dimmusdongus6596]

Runeterra's death was very funny because the community kept screaming at them to: - Either not do Rotation or keep Eternal competetive perpetually - Monetize their skins better And Riot just responded with a bunch of articles that were like "Yea we hear you. We don't care", and then jettisoned the entire team and threw a party for the button

[@denzelnatha9075]

Cool to know josh is a software engineer, makes sense to me ygo is like a really complex software with no proper documentation so the only way to learn it is through other people who use it

[@AceL.]

Funny how they added a button to LoL client after this Podcast, as Josh says on 1:23:00

[@TheDragonlordfire]

Chaotic was an exceptional game. So interesting.

[@arrowofkira5658]

Slay the spire is the best card game of all hands down and i hope Josh is really trying it out. They even announced StS 2 next year.

[@francescolofaro8258]

what was Farfa talking about when he said "pre-siding in tag duels"? Because tag duels are just bo1 with no side lol

[@Jahavagoff12]

I would like to see Josh's commander deck Deck building can be unituive for commander

[@Rhakimdar]

The sad part of runeterra is that they now have a lor button in the league of Legends client. I feel like they took way to long to establish these kinds of things that coulda kept it alive and tie it in with league rewards is another fantastic idea. I refuse to believe a card game can only be profitable if they heavily restrict cards and rely on sunk costs

[@sploshsqwash]

Rarran as a cardgame regular?? Bring him back for another round and talk about good card design again

[@bijoulink3479]

Back to back bangers my boys

[@DaemondMandiGrey]

8:56 Someone needs to ramens about chaotic recode

[@AKidWithGlasses]

Floodgates arent any worse than high negate boards that can be setup through handtraps. To be fair, i hate handtraps so its probably a hot take.

[@nabeelhussain1372]

Ramranch?!

[@MansMan42069]

RawrXD

[@RoyalBlue93]

I think Raran and Josh would love the new Dragonball Fusion World if they are a big fan of Lorcana

[@raystrife234]

7:55 you heard it here folks. Rarran's got beef with Coder

[@Duelerama90]

Low-key, I was hoping Elestral would be mentioned. So many TCG content creators are appealed by it; yugitubers, especially.