The Big Catch: Tacklebox Analysis

[@Kirobsi]

I wanna say a couple important things that I probably could've done better to indicate in the video. First of all, I read this post cohost.org/applecinnabun/post/6436290-the-big-catch-first during my first playthrough of the game, and it may be the reason I was so aware of the atmosphere and general design philosophy of the Tacklebox. I originally had a much longer explanation here of why I didn't credit that post, but I think that was excessive. Basically, I made some silly decisions (and active indecisions) that resulted in me not crediting it, and I realized within a couple days of publishing the video that I really should have. That post may not be available when you're reading this because cohost died in late 2024 - for what it's worth, I commented on it and the OP said they viewed it as me just adding to a shared conversation. Secondly, I make an argument in the video in favour of the Tacklebox's difficulty, and say specifically that game design trends are typically "about strongly catering to the player." In previous revisions I had made it explicit that this is not an elitist stance, but that got cut in my hyper-condensing revisions. I am all for the Tacklebox having assist options, I think they're an inarguable good - a spinput button, a way to set down a respawn point wherever the player wants, infinite health, slowdown if feasible. My argument pertains solely to environment design and player guidance: the game is about exploration, so it _shouldn't_ cater to a player by giving them a cozy facade of exploration that's really a guided tour. The game is about exploration, so the spaces should feel real and challenging instead of being on the easier end, because that contributes heavily to the atmosphere. I don't think those are possible to change without altering the core of the experience, and _that's_ what I was trying to get at. I am decidedly not saying "this is for the Real gamers out there..... no CASUALS allowed.." because that's shitty.

[@ethantstanger]

came for a tacklebox review, stayed for the ultra-self-aware and meditative script. The way you make your thought process so clear and transparent is very unique and special. Don't really have anything else to say other than that, it just struck me as special

[@blueducky1]

I really enjoy and resonate with video commentaries, and to see one as long and well researched for a game that just came out is a wonderful surprise to be sure. I can't really describe the other side of the argument for the final area's bonus climb. I saw the footholds around the outside and was drawn to it as well. The whole demo conditioned me to climb and explore every crevice, so the thought of returning to Bail and "finishing" the demo didn't even cross my mind. Not to mention I did accidentally spoil myself on the reward for the additional climb by looking at the community page on Steam. It's no doubt a great demo. But I think the only correct way to experience it is to learn it all organically through exploration.

[@Kirobsi]

It's sorta flattering to have this video called "long" given the tendency for「VIDEO ESSAYS」to be an hour or more. It's very difficult to write this much analysis when one is as focused on keeping it succinct, substantial and well-structured as I was, and... yeah, it is quite long from that perspective. Sort of an implied validation of the amount of work I put into it I guess? ^v^; (also "video commentary" is a nice little name c: glad you said that hehe,,) If you haven't, I'd recommend watching the shoogles video I mentioned in my analysis (unless you intend to play Penny's Big Breakaway yourself first). If you liked my video, you'll probably like his. Anyway I'm curious what exactly you mean by "well-researched" o,o the video had fairly little research done, to be honest. I tend to be rather mindful of the veracity of what I say about a given game's contents, so I suppose if you mean that then fair enough, but I didn't really research anything external to the game. Thanks for mentioning the ending thing. I do think it's fitting in the abstract to be pulled into the bonus climb immediately, although personally the hour and a half I spent on it _did_ affect my emotional state in a way that I believe was less impactful than otherwise. For whatever reason it didn't really occur to me that others may be thankful for that climb in a way that I wasn't. Oop. There's no one correct way to experience a game, and while I agree that the ideal way is to be left strictly to one's own devices (except maybe being told about the compass radar if one doesn't notice it themselves!), not everyone would enjoy that despite potentially enjoying the Tacklebox with some other approach. I played La-Mulana 1 with Cheshire's hint-based guide pulled up 95% of the time and it still became my favourite game, even if I can now see the value in playing without it from going through La-Mulana 2 that way. If that sort of thing is what it takes for somebody to like a game, then I'm all for it c:

[@alloyed_notmyfullnamethx]

i want to watch this once or twice more to properly digest it, but, re: intrinsic motivation. one of the things i did on (my pretty short tbh) playthrough was Look Up. and the having the moon be making a :V face at you the entire time was a fun realization to have, hehe. i did spend an inordinate amount of time trying to frame things just so, to make the moon look like it was interacting with silhouettes of all the different areas The Witness-style. anyways, 26:38 ok i rewatched: I didn't get the game to really play the game to the degree i wanted; after enough playtime I seem to be hitting a GPU bug or something that causes the game to hang infinitely, and sometimes crash :(. but, the time I did have with it was still fun~ and I'm actually super impressed with the level of polish and panache on the movement, and the environment design, and the everything else. learning that The Door requires 100% coins to open is actually kind of an unpleasant surprise. I don't mind 100% completion rewards at all, and knowing that the money does have a use in the demo was probably good for my motivation to double back and retry challenges, even when they're difficult, but. I think probably my unspoken, un-thought-of assumption was that the gate would open at an arbitrary any% number of coins, and that if something were legitimately too hard for me right now, i could take a mental note of it, move on, and not worry too much that i was missing something. I don't usually 100% games, so learning that the door is 100% only basically deletes the possibility of me ever opening it in my mind. The first thing that comes to mind are blue coins in mario sunshine, or (to an absurd, extreme level), the korok seeds in breath of the wild. as a sometimes treat they are nice, but as soon as you need _all_ of them the weight of having to trundle through the entire map looking for the one coin you may have missed kind makes intentionally skipping stuff much more scary. (and the thought of adding QOL to make that easier, such as a coin radar, makes that worse in my mind, not better) In terms of the difficulty level, and (I guess) public reception on how unguided it felt. I think of myself as "good enough to play hard games, but definitely worse than the core audience for them", but, I really liked the pacing and level of difficulty! it felt pretty specifically tuned: i definitely found myself in situations where things were tense; I knew the nearest tentacle-bonfire was pretty far away, and that the walk back would be a bit annoying, and that added a nice sense of tension. After a while, you just get the sense of when you should be looking for a shortcut, and I think the game rewarded that instinct pretty well. and besides, most of the areas do have a Golden Path to them, so i never really actually felt "unguided", I could just pick a structure and just start prodding at it. One tiny detail that i liked (and i hope i didn't imagine this) is that the fish seemed to be color-coded to signal their level of difficulty. it's impossible to pick which fish to go after with just that information, but it's a nice little nod after you got one, "yeah, that was supposed to be Red levels of Hard" or whatever. (oh, and before i forget. when talking about "expressive movement", probably a good indicator for that was the fact that I could watch your footage and be impressed and inspired? in the same way you might be when seeing someone do something cool in a creative medium. Cool Jumps!!!)

[@Kirobsi]

I'm a little indecisive on the 100% requirement in the video, because personally I was totally fine with it - was probably gonna 100% it regardless - but I'm aware that it could be pretty bad for some people. And… yeah, not too surprised to see that verified. Thanks for talking about that. I'm interested in your position that the coin radar makes the problem worse - how come? o: (Honestly, after playing Mario Eclipse to full completion, I think I'm a lot more inclined to dislike 100% completion rewards nowadays, especially substantial ones…) For what it's worth I also assumed that the door was any% when I first saw it, even though I had like 400 coins at the time. But as I got closer to 696 it became clear that it definitely was. You're right that most areas have a 'golden path' yeah. For all my praise of the more obtuse level design, a lot of it is very clearly guiding players, at least with the perspective of a second playthrough. That's part of the finesse, as I see it. Level design is built with those sorts of paths, yet it still feels exploratory and ambivalent to the player. I think the symbiosis I mention at 11:58 is responsible for that: pretty much everything in the game contributes to that feeling, so it leaves a strong impression despite each individual element not embodying it _that_ much. "Greater than the sum of its parts," I guess.

[@G1itch35]

excellent vid, I've been loving this game and it was nice to hear your thoughts on it. I found your interpretation of the intro to the final sequence interesting. I had a similar bittersweet feeling but also had goosebumps from partial fear. opening the door, going through that room with very odd geometry unlike the entire rest of the game, dragging the lid off the coffin, then falling down the hole and being met with trypophobia walls. I was on the edge of my seat in fear of what this environment means from an anthropological point of view, and felt both sadness and fulfillment at the rising climax of the soon to end adventure. I actually didn't even notice the bonus climb at the very top my first time. As soon as I grabbed the suit, I just walked out of my room, wireless headphones on, then sat down with my dogs and listened to that ending song for 30 mins overcome with emotions. going back to the game and hearing bail's final words were so...respectful? her acknowledgement and sympathy towards your position was so...communicated. Thinking about it now, it reminded me of what I felt from Stephen King's "What Writing Is," which is weird because I have never thought of that since the one time I read it 6 years ago. I don't even read either lol. It's like this whole experience was fabricated to bring you to that one moment in time (I mean technically that's true since it's to make you a fyskari). You pushed yourself while almost completely on your own, and for a brief moment, someone else can completely understand what you are feeling right then and there. You become someone who has walked that difficult path; likewise, you can understand and be understood by someone who has walked that same path.

[@Kirobsi]

This is a lovely comment, thank you a lot

[@G1itch35]

@@Kirobsi yw! :3

[@carrotOnLive]

amazing analysis!! your wording is so elegant, and well thought out. clearly a lot of time and care was put into this. i love this game so much and can't wait for the full release, excited to see what other stuff you may put out in the future

[@Kirobsi]

Thank you c:

[@venomousnat2572]

well done kiwi ^^ you made the game sound really fun

[@fungalcactus8286]

This game blew me away with its movement, vibes, and puzzles (movement puzzles). Though I did play it before some pretty important patches (missing the unique temple music and the unique sproingy area music, as well as inadvertently deactivating shortcuts on closing the game), it was well worth it. I think your analysis lines up a lot with what I thought of the game. Regarding performance, it may help to use the "Retro" graphics option, I think it lowers the internal resolution (it's also my preferred look for the game). I found the final area particularly stunning. The mechanical depth was something I wish I'd explored a little more, but I think having to backtrack if I failed was a deterrent for me. Also love the in-game 3D UI elements. This is rambly, but you did this game justice in your analysis!

[@Kirobsi]

Retro graphics didn't make any substantial difference because my bottleneck is my CPU. Lower framerate means the GPU has to do less work (because there's no frame to render sometimes), so lowering the resolution is effectively redundant. Patches have upped performance considerably since this video (which was recorded on 1.1.0) which has been really nice, I've played it a few more times since. Thanks for the thoughts otherwise, though c:

[@scruffyhawk2775]

Thank you for the unique, neutral take on it. I put about 25 hours into the game, and somehow managed to get Earning Your Scales (despite the skew locations and coins falling through the ground once per blue moon). I will admit that I was put off at times because of the tough platforming segments, and there was plenty discussion on this I saw on Steam, ranging from "the devs obviously played this game a lot, these segments are too punishing" to "don't complain and make them change an actual challenge of a game; get good or get lost". I think some things should be conveyed such as the compass glowing red when there are coins in the area (after 2/3 completion). There are pros and cons to the approach of letting the player find things out through experiment and community, and it can end up making people burn time because they are banging their heads against something they want to figure out for themselves. Filet wants to bring back honest challenge to a genre that may have become easier/simplified over the years, whether because it's easier game design or to appeal to a wider audience. I don't know what will come of this approach, though they seem to know well what they're doing with this project. I just hope that, as a mediocre player, I can hang in there to see all their game has to offer. Plenty I want to say but can't articulate. Overall, I was happy with it. I completed it, but I don't fully resonate with the "get good" mentality. While one or two small things can be tweaked, the movement options are fantastic, as is the tether mechanic. Presentation is phenomenally up my alley. I look forward to a complex 3D platformer when it does come out. If anything, I want to support the game because the style and artwork for it helped pull me out of an artistic slump, and I'm enjoying the drawing/animation process once more.

[@Kirobsi]

Thank you for the thoughtful comment! I dunno that my video is neutral though, I'm _very_ positive on the game hehe,, Difficulty is a tough subject in this case, because (as mentioned in my pinned comment) I think the actual world/level design being so challenging is a key reason that the game can execute the atmosphere it seems to aim for. I think the game absolutely should have assist features though, like a way to save your position so you don't _have_ to redo whole sections. And maybe I'm just unimaginative regarding how it could marry its atmosphere with more accessible design, I dunno. That "get good" perspective that you mentioned others spouting is a thoroughly uncompelling read of the game, in my eyes. Presenting the game's challenge as its central point just misses the mark, it feels so obvious to me that the Tacklebox is using difficulty as just one means to an end, to cultivate a truly exploratory atmosphere. I'm not sure I said this as explicitly as I could have, but the soft extrinsic motivations in the game feed into this idea: you're not really playing the game to beat it, you're playing the game to fiddle around with its mechanics and in its spaces. Before a player knows about the numbered door, it's fairly self-driven. The philosophy of its level design skews naturalistic and obtuse, it expects the player to engage with it as a 'real' space in a way that I don't see in other games. The difficulty is a large factor in that, making the spaces seem ambivalent to the player's existence because it takes real thought, observation and ingenuity to clear them. This is complemented by the self-driven nature I described to create a distinct atmosphere of and drive for exploration, exploration which is akin to the self-driven curiosity and types of challenge that scaling ruins in real life would include. Of course it _is_ designed to be beaten, but it's a great facsimile that I don't see elsewhere. When I say in the video that "almost every part of the Tacklebox is oriented towards the same goal," what I just described is that goal, or at least this is how I interpret the game. So yeah, it feels reductive to just go "this game is for the Challenge. you have to Get Good." It's not, it's about exploration and slow meditative play. I remember seeing someone describe the game kinda like it's a rage game, but which induces a sort of zen that nullified any frustration they'd feel - _that's_ how I see this game, and what all this stuff I've described builds towards. It's mechanically punishing but it's very understated about it, I guess. How can failure be a failure if there's no externally-defined "success" to contrast and contextualize it? This makes the numbered door a bit of an issue, because it probably makes a lot of people feel obligated to 'beat' the game instead of engaging with it for its own sake, thus creating/amplifying frustration because failure _is_ contextualized. What you say is true: "it can end up making people burn time because they are banging their heads against something." But I think that can only really happen if someone is viewing it as a game to beat, because otherwise "banging one's head" is just _the point of the game._ So it's not really a frustration, if that makes sense? You're here for that process, it's not a road block to your actual goal. It's not impossible to be frustrated even then, but I get the impression that very few people view the game as I did in this way, and that if they _did_ they would've been less prone to that frustration. I found the numbered door over half way through my first playthrough and I think that fact, combined with my early reading of the game as literally having no end goal/state at all, did a lot of good for my experience. This felt pretty rambly and maybe redundant with the video, but hopefully it offers some insight! Also, I definitely agree on the compass. Seems super unlikely that anyone will pick up on that themselves. Yeah, not sure what to expect from the full game. I'll probably enjoy whatever it is a lot. Hopefully you (and lots of others!) do too c:

[@fernandoportal5422]

I love thisd"demo".It also has some rare fps lag spikes on my pc

[@Kirobsi]

Yeah, performance is still kinda rough, although the most recent patch the other day (1.2.3) helped a good bit. The hitches you mention are likely caused by the game loading and unloading areas, which is the most common type of lag spike and seems pretty much universal no matter the player's specs. Could also be something else, though!

[@fernandoportal5422]

@Kirobsi yeah I noticed an improvement and I'll play Yo Noid two thanks to this video

[@eniigma2943]

great video! I enjoyed it very much. The only thing which I have to say, which i’m sure you understand too, is that the game was designed to deter players who dislike the exploration aspect of the game. You say somewhere that it’s very hard to keep the players hooked if there isn’t much inventive to play besides collecting coins and exploring (in the early game). I do think that this was intended, however, due to the overall layout of the game. I must say though, I have not personally played the game so I cannot comment; I have only played similar games where exploration is seemingly the only objective. But anyways, thanks for keeping me entertained once again Kiru.

[@Kirobsi]

It's not so much that it's designed to deter players, rather that it's designed to appeal to a niche of players, if that makes sense. But ye, that framing difference aside, that's correct. Through my layers of revisions to the section in question, I may not have said clearly enough that I take no issue with people not clicking with the game. It just seems that a lot of people _misunderstand_ what it's going for and suggest things that would make it a completely different game, so I mostly addressed that over anything. But yeah, it's fine not to like its direction, so long as they understand what it is. Also, call me Kiwi! hehe,, and thank you c:

[@iTheBeep]

very well-done analysis. I appreciate how thorough it was i don't like exploration much, i'm more of a linear enjoyer; but i'll just have to see for myself, years later when the full game goes on sale for like.. 70% off lul (i got too many damn games!!)

[@ShadwSonic]

Kind of surprised that Yo Noid 2 led into Big Catch from a development standpoint, even if it makes sense. Who'da thunk a lame ninja game (remember, the original Yo Noid was a reskin of such) would eventually lead to this masterpiece?

[@jplay9710]

This game looks fun & dynamic - and hopefully once performance and stuff is improved it looks like it will be a slick experience with the movement options. Not as engagingly goofy as Noid 2 though. Still watching the video so haven't seen everything you discuss yet. I do hope that the final game has more final motivation (like you're talking about here) - and also that it doesn't have a janky boss fight using all new mechanics for the first time (the worst thing about Noid 2).

[@xlovergirlx]

Ur voice pretty 🎉

[@ShadwSonic]

Odd... my own computer is by no means a spring chicken, yet it ran smooth as butter.

[@Kirobsi]

My bottleneck is very much my CPU. It's also a CPU that is only moderately better than like... an xbox 360's, as far as I understand. So that might be why o: (playing on the 'retro' graphics setting also helps the GPU load, but as that isn't my bottleneck it makes a fairly insignificant difference for me personally. Even still, you can see it spike to 80% GPU usage with 'retro' in the second framerate clip, which is... wild) My PC was fairly underpowered when I got it in 2017, so nowadays it's kinda pitiful

[@crisps6357]

I tried my best to like this game there's lots of potential here, smooth movement, and the gameplay in the beginning felt promising and fun. But i feel the movement options weren't clearly defined and for a platformer the character feels really slow you can spin jump, backflip, and wall run. But ground movement is seriously lacking not to mention the sections in this game are seriously punishing, having to redo them after falling at a precise hook jump is incredibly tedious. the game overall is good quality but it just really isnt for me ill try out pseudoregalia instead and see if i'd enjoy a game like that instead

[@Kirobsi]

It's unfortunate that it didn't click with you. I'd hope at least that my video offered some new insight and/or appreciation for the game in spite of that though o: From what little I've heard as someone who never played Pseudoregalia, it seems like it's less divisive, so you'll probably have better luck there.

[@ImRedprint]

I feel like the game knows what it is and wants to be. Focusing on movement and collectables the tacklebox environment reflects such. By knowing what their focusing on the audience who appreciate platformers are already interested and those who enjoy more complex gameplay will put their foot in the door also. these games function on the player wanting to simply play and learn. You want to get good at the movement and you want to collect all the coins and in the main game there’ll be outfits/side quests/ etc to fully flesh out these massive environments giving the more casual player something to self motivate. Players that need consistent instructions or guidance, this game just purely isn’t for them, you have to be willing to learn through trial and error & I say it’s about time theres a game that doesnt hold your hand and lets you figure it out. Nothing in this game is unfair or too hard a few extra fishingrods in areas (pond tower) wouldnt hurt but making the player reclimb something 20 times teaches them valuable timing and movement control. I love this game and wouldn’t change a thing if just to make it easier for half hearted players. Plenty of other games out there.

[@underlarry8204]

please dont use the final tower as broll, i skipped thru a bunch of the video because it dont wanna have it spoiled

[@Kirobsi]

I don't want to be callous and I empathize with the desire to avoid spoilers, but I _do_ give a spoiler warning at the start, specifically saying that the viewer would ideally play the game as blind as possible and that watching would "dull most major surprises." In hindsight I definitely could've worded that stronger, will keep that in mind going forward. Still, if you're worried about spoilers it's probably best to avoid analyses in the first place, as much as I feel like a bit of an asshole saying so. Hopefully it wasn't too bad for you, at least. Also, besides the dedicated section where I discuss the final tower, I only show two clips of it. I believe I tried to make them fairly unimpactful, in case someone watched half the video and then decided to play the game for themselves, but maybe I'm misremembering.