The Big Four: The Cumbersome Pride of the White Star Line

[@Massev6871]

I am the proud owner of some items of furniture from RMS Celtic which ran aground off Roche's Point light house at the entrance to Cork Harbour. She also had carried survivors from the Titanic back to Europe.

[@edwinsalisbury83]

What are some of these furniture items? Just curious.

[@NOrlando952]

What do you have? Can’t just leave us hanging like that!

[@Brock_Landers]

I would LOVE to have anything from these great ships. White Star Line ships were objects of beauty, almost all being built by Harland and Wolff of Belfast. I would be honored to own anything that came from Olympic or Titanic.

[@BigOldBoats]

This video is fantastic, thank you!

[@NauticalStudy]

I really appreciate it man! It’s funny that you just posted a vid on SS America because that’s what I’m working on right now!

[@brendan5065]

@@NauticalStudy Well. Good to know you all don't compete

[@NauticalStudy]

@@brendan5065 of course not! Comparing yourself to others is a recipe for displeasure. We all have a similar passion and all different methods of teaching about it. In fact, I wouldn’t be opposed to a colab.

[@brendan5065]

@@NauticalStudy Right! Very true. BTW I like your jokes and puns. make the videos intresting.

[@NauticalStudy]

@@brendan5065 that’s my goal! Always happy to hear!

[@vladvictor7256]

Dude, whatever you do, don't stop making these videos. Great quality and potential. I subscribed right after that Titanic joke. Great humor as well.

[@NauticalStudy]

I appreciate that more than you can believe. As you can (probably) tell, I’m still a somewhat new KZbinr, but I comments like that are what keep me going to improvement!

[@vladvictor7256]

@@NauticalStudy Believe me, this is the first comment I've ever posted on KZbin since I discovered it about 15 years ago:)). Judging by the number of subscribers, I assumed you are new to this so I wanted to tell you that any bloke that loves ocean liners and history will eventually get to this channel. Keep up the good work!

[@Gardner0871public]

“Can you think of how long that lasted?” 🤣

[@randomscb-40charger78]

The best part was the sudden transition to the video.

[@jakeoreilly9627]

@@NauticalStudy when you said accidents your not kidding

[@CJODell12]

I always figured Adriatic was the most popular, but I guess Baltic’s numerous heroic exploits helped her popularity.

[@CJODell12]

White Star designed Baltic to be the largest ship in the world. For her to exceed the 21,073 tons of her sister Cedric, she was fitted with an extra 29-foot midsection. Baltic set out on her maiden voyage from Liverpool - New York June 29th 1904. She struggled to maintain the White Star Line’s leisurely-recommended speed of 16 knots on that crossing as the extra weight proved too much for her engines. This led to Baltic being returned to Harland & Wolff to have more powerful engines installed.

[@mikkel.granrud]

I keep coming back to all of your videos. They’re great!

[@CJODell12]

This is still one of my favorite videos that you’ve made. The Big Four deserve a lot more credit than they actually get.

[@tinypoolmodelshipyard]

Agreed, i come back to this and Great Big Moves video on the Big Four. Atleast twice a month. This and Oceanic 2 Eletric Bugaloo are my favorite N.S. videos.

[@CJODell12]

10:06. The full exact quote was ‘I will not assert that she is unsinkable, but I can say confidently that, whatever the accident, this vessel would not go down before time had been given to save the life of every person on board. I will go a bit further. I will say that I cannot imagine any condition that would cause the Adriatic to founder. I cannot conceive of any fatal disaster happening to this ship. Modern shipbuilding has reduced that danger to a minimum’. (Captain Smith, quoted in 'The World’s Work', 1909 (courtesy of Dr. Paul Lee)

[@johannesrubbestad3937]

Celtic: I can not bee scuteled Rocks: Oh you are wrong.

[@CJODell12]

To be fair, I’m surprised it took that to finally end Celtic’s career, after she had survived both a mine strike in 1917 and a torpedo attack in 1918.

[@Wemfsh]

My family came to America on Cedric on her second or third voyage

[@runawaysmudger7181]

Also on April 15th the Baltic turned hard about and headed for the Titanic despite already being over 300 miles away keeping in contact with the Carpathia and the Olympic until Captain Rostron told them to continue on their way to Liverpool as nothing more could be done

[@dennischallinor8497]

The 737's of their day! Wonderful video. I haven't heard or seen anything of Ken Marschall lately, does anyone know what happened to him? Did he retire, we are roughly the same age? Planes are fantastic, ships are majestic.

[@michlo3393]

Seems like he's just retired. He did some consulting work with James Cameron about _Titanic_ and that seems to be the most recent work he's been noted for. That was like, 10-15 years ago now I think.

[@dennischallinor8497]

@@michlo3393 Thank you for that. I knew Ken in the early 70s and a friend of mine commissioned a rendering of the Lusitania from him. He is a perfectionist in his work and a really nice guy. I'll bet the thrill of his life was that time they found the wreck.

[@AlexanderFort]

This is a very interesting video and I appreciate your humor.

[@DSGNflorian]

Some of the contemporary photos were new to me, very nice! Especially the images at 0:51and 0:58, probably taken on glass plates, had amazing resolution for their time and make it fun to study the details of these ships. As you likely will make more ship videos, allow me to point out that, like a lot of people, you confuse the terminology of Gross Registered Tonnage (volume/size) with Tons Displacement (weight). Sadly, even some historians who really should know the difference continue to perpetuate this all too common mistake. Tons Register is a measure of internal volume, i.e. the physical size of the vessel. Not its weight or mass. A ship's weight is expressed in Tons Displacement, since the weight of the ship is equal to the weight of the mass of water it displaces. Because both units of measure use "tons", they are very often confused. Gross Registered Tons (GRT) describes all the enclosed spaces (volume) within a ship's hull and superstructure, while Net Registered Tons (NRT) is the volume of the revenue-earning space, in the case of passenger vessels all the passenger accommodation and cargo holds. On some of the old express liners with powerful machinery, that could be much, much less than the Gross Tons Register number, because of the enormous space required for the engines and coal bunkers. What made the Big Four so profitable for White Star was their moderate speed and favorable ratio between GRT and NRT. Due to their slow service speed of 16.5 knots, daily coal consumption was much less than a 20-knot ship, and the size of the machinery and fuel bunkers was relatively small, leaving a lot of revenue-earning passenger and cargo space within their roomy hulls.

[@cunard61]

It's interesting that none of these ships was ever converted to burn oil fuel. They would have been very economical to have done so, given their speed, and their length of service.

[@EmilyCorradino]

Well, by the time that White Star began converting their ships, the big four were all already pretty old. It just wouldn't have been worth the price of converting it. Furthermore, a lot of firemen lost their jobs because oil burning ships required a different skill set, and less workers. By keeping these ships on coal, these people kept their jobs, and I believe the intent was to keep friendly relations with the people who could potentially strike and grind your ships to a halt.

[@rmsteutonic3686]

I love how abrupt the transition between talking about the number 4 legend to: “the big 4… Also. Depending on when Mauritania and Adriatic were launched, Adriatic could have held the title as largest ship in the world for a few hours. Just saying.

[@EmilyCorradino]

I think the Lusitania was launched earlier that year in June unfortunately.

[@tinypoolmodelshipyard]

Yeah^^ youre right. The Lusitania was already launched and held the title for largest ship in the world. Adriatic never had a chance, her construction delays stamped out her hopes on that one

[@tinypoolmodelshipyard]

​@@EmilyCorradino ^

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@tinypoolmodelshipyard could she have beat the Lusitania to it had she not been delayed?

[@zeruiahwild1]

"So what did we learn? ...That is a great question." Dude you are hilarious and post amazing videos!! Keep it up and I can't wait for your future videos ^^

[@CJODell12]

Although Mauretania was larger in gross tonnage, she came up short of Adriatic in net tonnage, which is commercially usable space, excluding the areas for machinery and engines. Adriatic had a net tonnage of 15,638, compared to Mauretania’s net tonnage of 12,797.

[@teddyduncan1046]

Hitting the coast of NH is impressive since it is only 12 miles long!

[@joaomartins7175]

This is fabulous! Keep it up! Immediate subscription of course

[@IIegacyy]

Hi im a year late, but if anyone is wondering the reason why chinese people think 4 is related to death is because in cantonese (my mom is from hong kong) 4 sounds like the word ''die'' or ''death''.

[@RADICALFLOAT_95]

I actually genuinely agree with you and finally some one who l found in the comment section that actually is also Chinese ❤😂🎉.

[@Brock_Landers]

RMS Celtic was an icon of her time, being the biggest ship in the world, the heaviest, and the best built ship at the time.

[@therandomytchannel4318]

We need cruise liners in the 20,000 ton range again, your not getting me on one of those huge 100k+ behemoths

[@cronos222]

I've been watching quite a few of your videos and what makes them better than most is your witty and entertaining while still being informative commentary . Seriously . Well Done Sir !

[@WLDB]

God I love the humour in your videos. So many other channels trying to cover this stuff are a little dry. Keep it up!

[@chrismaccool9097]

Which ship did Captain Smith himself command in 1908.?

[@CJODell12]

This wasn’t mentioned in the video, but Adriatic actually reopened the Southampton-Cherbourg-New York service in September 1919. In June 1920, Olympic returned to service in Southampton and the two serviced the route until December 1921, after which Adriatic was moved back to Liverpool, with the arrival of Homeric and Majestic.

[@mflashhist500]

I have just discovered your channel and am working through the vids, quite impressed so far I like your informative and entertaining style, keep up the good work!👍

[@champinunkel4256]

I love your Videos and your humor is gorgeous XD. Could youn make a video about the german trio of superliners Imperator Vaterland and bismarck later Berengaria Leviathan and Majestic?

[@ridleyscurry2480]

I love this guys commentary

[@rottenroads1982]

I am going to say this: Isambard Brunel has a very stylish Hat.

[@gilletteobette535]

Lusitania was launched 3 months before the adriatic, so there was never a chance for her to be the biggest ship.

[@stuff4115]

Something interesting is Adriatic was launched the same day as the Mauretania

[@tinypoolmodelshipyard]

Thank you. I'm glad Im mot the only one who caught that !

[@auramint]

So Celtic survived what killed Britanic, Lusitania, and republic? Oh wow

[@patrickracer43]

No one: White Star Line ships: "I haven't rammed anything in five minutes!" *rams a tugboat*

[@anthonylowder6687]

The Celtic was the 2nd ship to exceed the Great Eastern...the first was the Oceanic of 1899 previously mentioned.

[@ImBaNT]

The Oceanic was only bigger in length, the Celtic was actually the 1st ship in the world bigger than the Great Eastern in GRT

[@CJODell12]

Celtic was the first to exceed Great Eastern in length and tonnage.

[@Fishycheese99]

Anyone notice how izambard brunel looks EXACTLY like Alec Baldwin?

[@DanDauzacker]

Loving your videos! Great voice, Great pronunciation and puns xD

[@alexis_ian]

Very informative video!

[@Local-Of-The-Mitten-State]

Love this channel

[@anormalcommentor9452]

Very informative! I loved this video :)

[@Valizan]

Subscribed because this was hilarious and informative. Bravo!

[@scottjackson5173]

I enjoyed the frequent references to the Olympic class. Which was the hoped for "super big four." The unrealized dream of J. Bruce Ismay. The REALLY FUNNY PART, is that had Ismay allowed Thomas Andrews have his head? (Not gotten in involved is issues he was unqualified to administrate) I suspect that the Olympics would have been known as the big four. After the catastrophic loss of Titanic? Harlan and Wolfe, never built another liner, so large.

[@HyperVegitoDBZ]

So large, being the key word here.

[@cleverusername9369]

Should it not be pronounced "KEL-tic? I thought "SELL-tic" was just the Boston NBA team

[@chris928901]

not to nitpick but I always thought the correct pronunciation of the word Celtic was "kel-tic" and that "sell-tic" as in the Boston Celtics was the incorrect pronunciation. This video is fantastic though, thank you.

[@NauticalStudy]

It's one of those American vs. British thing, I'm a freedom-loving patriot so that's what I've really been exposed to, thanks for the feedback still!

[@FallenPhoenix86]

@@NauticalStudy It isn't a UK/US thing, theres a "Celtic" football club in Scotland with the same pronunciation as the Bostonian basketball team, the Scottish club is also about 60 years older.

[@NauticalStudy]

@@FallenPhoenix86 Well if you’re British then what’s the right way to say it?

[@FallenPhoenix86]

@@NauticalStudy Both are, it just depends on context. If you said "K"eltic in reference to either sport team you'd be wrong, if you said "S"eltic in reference to culture or language groups you wouldn't be wrong but you would get strange looks from pretty much anyone.

[@davidmccann9811]

In the 19th century (and long after) British people pronounced the word Celtic with a soft 'C' (Seltic), which is why the Glasgow football team and the ship were both called that. But during the last 50 years or so British academics have decided that the word should be pronounced with a hard 'C' (Keltic) instead. Which is why we now use both in the UK.

[@anormalcommentor9452]

Also at 3:59 , that is the RMS Britannic (1874), not Germanic :)

[@thejagotishow]

Yes, you’re right.

[@orange-sailor]

let me tell you the next island from the nantucket island was Martha's vinyard the island that played amity island from jaws(1975)

[@daleeasternbrat816]

My father came over from ireland wilt my grandparents on the Baltic in 1921.

[@anthonycalbillo9376]

They sure liked the 'ic' endings.

[@NauticalStudy]

White star line tradition! Cunard line had all of their ships end with 'ia' endings up to the Queen Mary too

[@anthonycalbillo9376]

@@NauticalStudy thank you, I didn't know about that. So, RMS Queen Mary broke tradition.

[@NauticalStudy]

@@anthonycalbillo9376 Absolutely! They haven't really followed either since the merger...

[@anormalcommentor9452]

@@NauticalStudy I believe Cunard's rule was originally something else since their ships seemed to be named after places for a while,s such as the PS Africa and the PS Europe

[@NauticalStudy]

@@anormalcommentor9452 a lot of their vessels were named after Roman provinces (ie, Mauritania, Lusitania) even White Star had done that, the RMS Medic was named for Media, a Roman province in Syria. Cunard started naming it after places in I think the 1850’s with the Arabia. I think the Russia was the first deliberate instance of the ‘ia’ though. But I know they had a lot of ships like Palestine and Tripoli so you may be correct

[@torquetrain8963]

Reciprocating steam engine powered ocean vessels are still the Kings of torque and strength. Size, power, prestige. It doesnt matter..... even the most common and primitive of us men.......these piston steam engines are the pinnacle of power.

[@FallenPhoenix86]

I can hear the entire Nimitz class laughing at that notion.

[@toddkurzbard]

Cumbersome? They were well-loved, well-appointed, popular vessels. In what way were they "cumbersome"? They also influenced the design of the later OLYMPIC class.

[@ditto1958]

Was White Star just cursed, or did they have serious issues with safety? In general it seems as though ships ran into each other way too often in those days, but still, White Star ships had more than their share of accidents.

[@DerpyPossum]

i’ll be taking that with a grain of salt if i were you. i bet there were quite a few lesser-known lines with just as many incidents.

[@juanesmirez]

Actually only 5 ships of White Star sunk on their management the others where lost in war or by other companies

[@rmsteutonic3686]

@@juanesmirez correct

[@starrsmith3810]

Looking at White Star Line’s record with ships………I don’t think it’s either.

[@mimoslavija]

great video

[@williamgottlieb8723]

If the RMS Celtic was traveling in place of the Titanic on that fateful night, the iceberg would have sunk.

[@idontknowwhatimdoinghere]

XDDDD

[@CJODell12]

The Virgin Titanic vs The Chad Celtic?

[@maggiehall9545]

Well well I have to say I like all things maritime and you give a good account on the subject. How unfortunate then that you that you have such scant regard for England.

[@Local-Of-The-Mitten-State]

“In Chinese culture, the number 4 represents death, destruction and curses… … Anyways, I’m gonna talk about The Big Four, a class of White Star Liners that weren’t too famous but deserve their own video.”

[@mikegriffin4020]

PERshing

[@FinalWX13]

Scythia is the ship my ancestors came on lmao

[@randomrazr]

no pics of interior?

[@DerpyPossum]

9:43

[@deamicisfrank1308]

what music do ya use

[@jonathanwhitaker6877]

Don’t diss England it’s an incredible country.

[@kzeich]

Yeah, why did he say that? I thought it sounded so random, out of place.

[@JLR-z8u]

The drama with white star liners…

[@cdostudio5079]

Your amazing dude!! I’m giving you a shoutout on my channel!!

[@NauticalStudy]

You have no idea how much that means to me. Thank you so much for your support. You just made my day!

[@cdostudio5079]

@@NauticalStudy no problem

[@jagmiddleton]

the great eastern was and still is revolutionary . the first ship to have a double hull designed by an engineer who was himself a revolutionary had this ship hit the iceberg that caused titanics sinking she would have survived and sailed into new york no problem.

[@JohnJohn-yl4ko]

Jhin: one... two... three... FOUR

[@Sebi076]

Great video, nice jokes haha

[@ady4208]

What is the name of that song at the outro

[@galatheumbreon6862]

Kaiser waltzer or emperor waltz

[@DerpyPossum]

“The Wedding Dance”, a popular tune during the turn-of-the-century.

[@virtahepo]

Are you sure RMS Celtic was named after the football club (pronounced "seltic" like you did) and not the Celtic peoples?

[@NauticalStudy]

I'm an American, I suppose in reading the script I had become accustom to the basketball team name

[@theoneandonlypurpl]

I pronounce Celtic as "Kel-tic".

[@Jopsyduck]

so, the celtic class only outlived the olympic class by 2 years at most... huh.

[@CJODell12]

The four ships had a combined service life of 110 years.

[@michlo3393]

I've read somewhere that _Celtic_ and _Cedric_ were pronounced Keltic and Kedric. But I can't remember where I read that and perhaps nobody cares.

[@WR_Aviation3758]

The adriatics whistle sounds ghostly

[@dustyr112]

Kitties!!

[@CJODell12]

Did you mean to say "truly interesting" at 0:57, because you said "uninteresting".

[@subtwo_elmo468]

I’m the 998 like

[@could_possiblybe_thane07echo]

Im the 999th, who will be the 1000th like?

[@apc6861]

I think the the big four is ugly seeing it sailing away from you it looks good but sailing at you it looks... Ugly

[@kidmohair8151]

well....at least I can agree with your pronunciation of Baltic and Adriatic but Seedric? and Selltic...nope, can't do it, sorry.... Saidric, and Keltic

[@DerpyPossum]

apparently “seedric” and “selltic” is how the White Star Line crewmen pronounced it.

[@kidmohair8151]

@@DerpyPossum well...some people...harrumph

[@ChrisCooper312]

Try going to Glasgow and telling them you don't agree with how they pronounce the name of one of their football teams.

[@kidmohair8151]

@@ChrisCooper312 are you crazy? If I should ever have a death wish, I might try that...and it ain't just Glasgow, try disagreeing with any scot

[@drownplayz]

a

[@aarosundvall]

Heh, Peshing.

[@BattleSeriesXTheMulitVerse1975]

ss atlantic and titanic disasters

[@CycIic]

I hate and love this class, celtic looks quite good with her design, but the baltic... They did the baltic badly, she did not deserve to have that tiny of funnels and that big of a hull. The celtic is more balanced though.

[@charlietbarnes4842]

Well England 🇬🇧 Britain is a beautiful country v simular infact tp America but its known to hav not much luck wiv weather but a charm u won't find anywhere else in the world u clearly must not hav visited maby u should

[@DerpyPossum]

Adriatic supremacy gang

[@TIMOTHYESKINNER]

Balearic Sea...

[@Valortte]

Ss republican

[@Toast0808]

Celtic is pronounced KEL-TIC not SELL-TIC. 🙄

[@DerpyPossum]

The ship was pronounced SELL-tic, as stated by its crew.