the BIG wing dilemma, pt 1 (Vision vs CWC)

[@ashleydavis614]

I've back to back flown the Duotone Ventis 8m with a Strike CWC V2 8m(V3 soon). The difference between them is the CWC V2 felt a bit lighter (and is) but the Ventis was a more capable wing when it came to tacks, heineken gybes and 360s. The ventis was also faster. The CWC V2 pulled less on the hands than the Ventis. To me the Ventis just felt like a very powerful Duotone UInit but overall a more capable wing than the CWC V2.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

I def agree! I just was on a 7m Ventis and it reminded me of my 6.5 Unit but a little more solid. I loved it. I’m not sure I can get my hands on an 8m Ventis but I’m crossing my fingers. The 8m v3 CWC arrives this weekend so hopefully Im Stoked to try that back-to-back with the v2. Never been more stoked on light wind 😂👍 thanks bud and I wish you and yr crew an awesome weekend!

[@MarinKariž-d5v]

How’s Ventis top end vs Strike? Can it dump the power effectiveliy like Strike can?

[@kittathay9678]

So great to see some in depth and honest reviews! Keep it coming

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Awww thanks so much bud! I try to keep it real and do my own thang, glad yr digging it. I wish you an awesome day!

[@kitesitenet]

Awesome video Jermy!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Thank you Phil 🙏

[@stkl23]

Exactly the content many people have been waiting for, Jeremy! And congrats on getting test wings from F-One! Your hard works pays off! Looking forward to the next part! One reason to switch to the gen 3 CWC might be the handles. I went from a V2 strike to a V1 CWC on back to back days and the soft handles on the V1 felt way too soft.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

oh man the handles on my old 8m are sooooo soft, I was on it yesterday and it just blows my mind how I never thought that was an issue until I started using stiffer options. big difference. the v3 CWC are even stiffer and thicker than the smaller v3 strikes. Ventis is kinda awesome with the hard handles...

[@stkl23]

@@OCEANBOUND1 Have you had a chance to test the 8m Ventis yet?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@stkl23 only the 7m. I couldn't get my hands on an 8m. it's pretty awesome.

[@christomo]

Excellent film great narrative and enjoying watching it . The strike is a better-looking wing for sure . Look forward to the review on the 8m. I'm thinking about just having a 6m as my biggest wing as i can get going in 14mph with that. I still have my 7m, but I hardly use it now with the new foil wings. Hope you are having a blast in the sunny weather with your crew. Have a great weekend 😊

[@OCEANBOUND1]

thanks bud, and it is a damn sexy wing, especially in that orange. I really don't want to know how low I can go at this point. 12mph is a fine barrier for me. but what are my best options for 12mph? I'm on a mission to find out :P I wish you all an awesome weekend! light winds over here... I hope you have more going on!

[@grahamreed8443]

Please demo a DW board winging. I absolutely love my 86L 6’3” Armie DW board winging and will grab it if the wind is under 20mph (unless I want to jump). It really makes the 60L FG feel like an absolute dog, which is crazy because that board was so much better than my previous boards. It rides amazing on foil and pumps and rides bumps really well. The efficiency gains open up smaller wings (foil and or hand wings). I even won a regatta on mine!

[@awareness556]

I'm on a 6'1 Kalama DW. It's a fantastic all-around board for all conditions but it really shines in light wind. It makes getting up almost effortless.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

oh man I want to. funds are the issue, I just can't pick up another thing right now. maybe in the Fall. I like the DW and 60L quiver, that makes sense to me. my friend does have a 90L Blackbird that I'm due to try. is your Armie board useable for anything else that small or only for winging? super into paddling and pumping on flatwater, since I have a place down the street from my house that would work in.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@awareness556 I'm so close to taking the dive! thank god these things are hard to get in stock. I imagine I'll be riding one in a few months.

[@grahamreed8443]

@@OCEANBOUND1 I am learning the flat water SUP and dipping my toes in DW SuP and DW prone with hand paddles. I can paddle it just fine at my 65kgs. In choppy water it is challenging but doable. Only caught a dw bump prone so far.

[@rickstervdb]

The Glide 220 rear stab has been the best value for money spent so far for light wind winging. I’m calling it my Session Saver. It’s fantastic. Cracked the 8-10 knots with it paired with the HA1325 on a 95 mast. 77l board 6.5m d-lab.lm 77kg. Next challenge the 6-8 knots which will cost a lot more dollars.

[@stevencarter6350]

Finding 6m V3 if too vertical tip dips so pump more horizontal. Pump small, fast anticlockwise circles, don't feel much power in hands but weirdly builds speed. Guess it builds apparent wind and forward pull. Very different to Ensis 6.2m I had, but same bottom end once pump figured.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

I just copied your suggestions into my notes, I hope to hit all the methods and compare how they work on the different versions. the circles seem to be the best method for the CWC, If I could incorporate teh flutter into that, or just a little faster, that could be worth focusing on. the 7m was def different than my 5.5m. I look forward to trying the 8m v3 soon...

[@wildhogget69]

Great video and great review as always, I just love my 8m Strike CWC it gets me going every time and I am 85kg AXIS 1050 at 8knts

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Awesome bud, thank you! And I still love my 8m CWC. I'm excited to comment on the versions back-to-back... more soon. I wish you n amazing weekend!

[@Tobeon2]

8 knots?? 👀😳.. Dayam, you can pump!! I

[@scottaplamondon]

Great video. I am in Southern California and we need a light wind wing. I am about 6 3 and 215 and have tried all of the wings out there except the vision. I had the 7m v3 cwc and returned it. It felt heavy and slow to react and the soft slippery handles drove me crazy. I had the 7m North Mode and that was better but the wing has a huge leading edge and strut. I had the 8m CWC last year as well and it was to heavy to fly in light wind and I was constantly getting back winded on my Jibes. I currently have the 6.5m Duotone DLab and I really like that wing but the wing hits the tips more than most other wings due to its size wing tip to wing tip. I am waiting to try the 7m Ventis DLab which is smaller wing tip to wing tip than the 6.5m I have. I think that I am really going to like the longer front handle as well. I will let you know as soon as I get to try it. It awesome watching your videos so please keep posting. Let me know if you ever make it out here and I can introduce you to all of the great wingers in SoCal. Thank you, Scott P

[@OCEANBOUND1]

thanks so much for these words bud, truly appreciated! I have already tried a Ventis 7m, and it's pretty sweet. the longer handle is prolly my favorite part. I was riding one handed powered up like it was a boom. freakin sweet for powered jibes. I can't wait to hit waves with it. I will compare it at some point to the 6.5 Unit I have, although it's a v2. which DLab 6.5 do you have? this year or last year? a DLab Venits is prolly the most ultimate scenario I can think of. more soon on the Ventis. And dude, so kind... SoCal here I come! I just gotta work out the timing :P Seriously, I'd love to hit some spots ad meet some people. where abouts are you based?

[@dolcevitaspain9029]

I had newcwc 3 6m felt heavy and sold it. Did not like it compared with v2 which is more easy and fun.

[@pheelers1831]

I use Cab Mantis wings right now, 6&5m but I see a lot of new North light wind wings out there i'd like to try those.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

right on bud, I love the Mantis. I didn't mind the vision either, but the Mantis is more about what I'm feeling lately. I don't think I ever see North wings around here, but I've had them on my list for a long time now.

[@awareness556]

I've had the 7m CWC for over a year. I use it a lot. Primarily for wind under 10 mph. If the wind is consistently over 10 mph, I switch to my 5m WASP. I don't own a 6m. I also switch foils. Under 10 mph, Axis PNG 1300. Over 10 mph, Axis HPS 980. For me, the 7m CWC is not practical with small foils.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

right on bud. I do love the 8m I have, I love power but for things like racing I was much better off on wings that have tighter canopies and can go upwind better. the new CWC Strikes can def do that better, the compromise is the low end. but there's got to be a low wind trick, I'll work on it. I really have that 8m so I can hit waves if they are there but the wind is light and I don't want to use my biggest foil. I'm not sure if the new CWCs work into the same calculations. hopefully I can try in some bumps soon! Thanks bud and I wish you an awesome rest of your weekend!

[@caspertheghost6084]

I found with the f-one sails like to be pumped in a triangle

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Interesting! That makes sense with the trailing edge. I’ll make sure to try that next time I’m on one!

[@snugkillsit]

Great work as always and can’t wait to see the final outcome! I’m the guy with that one review out there on the CWC V3. Initially it wasn’t as positive as I had hoped for a seamless transition from the old CWC but overall I still liked the improvements a lot. It’s just so different from the old one. Now that I’ve got 10-15 sessions on it and have had time for my body to adjust, I really love it. I would NOT recommend sizing down but I think I can now get on foil in the same or similar wind as before with LOADS of other improvements to enjoy along the way. I can absolutely keep it on foil better in light winds. Honestly, I consider these handles as hard coming from the old one which I love but they still have a slight give which helps my forearm burn compared to a full hard handle. This new wing requires more back hand input for sure to keep it flying high but catching the tips is now a non issue for me. Boosting, upwind, powered riding, handle passing, are all greatly improved over V1/V2 for sure! Hopefully F-One decides to just let you keep the damn thing!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Dude! Thanks so much for circling back! Stoked yr digging the wing! I can feel it’s potential, I just need some time on it. I have the 8m in hand so I plan to spend some time in the next few weeks comparing the two versions. Hopefully the light wind sticks 🤞 More soon, but seriously, awesome you circled back. Your are the v3 Strike OG! I really appreciate it. And I wish you an awesome weekend!

[@snugkillsit]

@@OCEANBOUND1 It was such a commitment to just buy the thing but here in WY we have 6 months of winter and I couldn’t spend half my season waiting around for a new wing to arrive. Would love to try the Ventis tho, I bet the handles open up some new moves and ease of transitions.

[@lnbadi]

Hey my dealer told me to pump the cwc v3 mostly with the back hand. Works like a charm. Also it needs few but strong and intense pumps to catapult you up 😅

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Love this! I already started a little list of recommendations I’ve found on the web, so I just added your dealer’s recommendation. Preparing to give this a thorough test back-to-back with my current CWC… I want the new ones to be better so bad! It’ll be interesting. The v3 8m lands in my hands Sunday… so hopefully we will get a lot of light wind in the next few weeks!

[@__nathan___]

@@OCEANBOUND1 Hey could you share this list of techniques you've collect please? This sounds wonderfully helpful. I'm pretty new winger with a v3 8m and I can definitely stand to get better at pumping. Also thanks for calling out the craziness of manufacturers saying you can go in 6 kts. I need at least 13/14 mph to get going

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@__nathan___ will do bud! it's a rought list right now, I'm gonna go into the methods we try when we demo the 8m CWCs back-to-back

[@jorgeroman6723]

Love your videos.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

and thanks so much!! truly appreciated, and super stoked you dig them!

[@rolavi66]

Interested in ventis 7m review. Looking forward to the next update. I Ride Mostly Duotone slicks SLS. Swapped 6m CWC for 6m SLS last year and was happy. Thinking of adding 7 Ventis or selling 6m SLS and getting 6.5 Slick 23. Wish I could I could demo but can’t do really appreciate your updates.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

it's coming! the 7m Ventis has been flown, I think it's awesome. I have a v2 6.5 Unit and it reminds me of it but feels a little more solid. def high performance. I'm obvi getting rid of the 6.5 but I hope to ride them both soon, I may do a video comparing them, who knows. thanks bud and I wish you an awesome rest of your weekend!

[@rolavi66]

So I went out on my new 7m Ventis yesterday. Nice wing definitely going help my low end. Like the wing. However, I still need to learn how to pump it. I feel I could still get out of the hole as quickly with my 6m Slick SLS with effort and efficiency. Such a different pump technique from SLS that I will need to dial in the different approach to head offwind more and bigger slower pumps. Thanks.

[@AdamsHadEnough]

I got so fed up with wingtip drags in this sizr range that I got the 2023 Gong Superpower with boom. The thingnhas a wingspan of 342cm less 20cm than a 6.5 it replaced. I think the Superpower has come a long way from that one you tried some time back on your channel.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Right on bud! Which one v3 did you have? The wingtip thing got better for me, I’m getting a little more used to it and it really only happens now when I’m underpowered and pumping like a mad man. And LOL about the super power. It was def an early model and a novelty to try at the time… I’ve def changed my tune and have come to appreciate Gong as a reputable brand! If they old their products in the states I’d prolly have a Cruzader right now! Thanks bud and I wish you an awesome day!

[@rossbikeking]

Hey, Dood you have to try the Duotone Ventis we have the 7m Ventis and it's way better than the F-One's floppy soft handles are old hat and have been superseded with stiff handles. And its so more apparent with light wind wings you need 100% percent of your pumping to go into getting on foil not losing pump in the slop of the handles on the CWC's, Also the Ventis is way more efficient through the air than the CWC's so translates to faster riding and staying on foil more I can't rate them highly enough I have access to all the wings at my shop and the Ventis hands down wins outright.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

teehee I totally agree, love the Ventis. I'm just gonna drop that there. more soon!

[@flightjunkie808]

Good luck on your quest to find the best big wing! I’m looking forward to hearing what you decide. In my opinion big wing are for learning and racing. There is no doubt that you go faster with a big wing. The most important factor in big wings in my opinion is weight and how light they feel when flying. If money wasn’t a factor I think the new composite materials that Ocean Rodeo and Duotone use probably make these the best big wings. But, I have longevity and damage repair concerns. Other than for racing I find small wings so much more fun. I’d rather ride a downwind style board with a bigger foil and use a small wing. I can do 15 mph on a 2.5m wing on the MA1750 and I cruise at 12mph with a top speed of 20mph on that foil at 80kg. My go to wing is the XPS 4.6m and I can do 8mph on that. Keep frothing! 😎🤙

[@OCEANBOUND1]

sup bud! I love your methods. I think my everything will change when I get a DW board, but I'm probably not getting one of those this year so I'll rock a big wing another season. But I also love being on smaller foils with a ton of power in my hands. How's that 1750 do at going rail to rail and turning? I just tried a 1525 for the first time, it was pretty crazy how little I needed to get up on that. so the big foil def breaks my hard lightwind bottom, it's cool to know I can go lower than what I'm used to without having to work a lot harder. and btw I'm super into lightness, if I could afford the DLab Units or Ventis, I would 100% ride them. I only use my wings for one season, so I'm not super worried about longevity. the people around here that have them have proven that they last a full season and seem to be better off than the non-DLab wings.

[@michaelrichter7734]

The small foil adds a lot to the big wing test- there was a chance you would not get up at all. From footage Cabrinha wins but the wind might have dropped. Excellent discussion in the comments thought I'd chime in late to get you up to 60. Thanks OB!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Thanks bud! I know the wind came down, slightly, like 1mph, possibly more. And yeah, silly decision to take my 925… it’s a light wind wing and I should have treated it like all light wind sessions. I think I was full of hope. Ohhh well. Thanks bud and I wish you an awesome day!!

[@michaelrichter7734]

@@OCEANBOUND1 5.5 in for repairs so Inverted test yesterday here, 4m wing in 10-15 with 1475ma. Looked like I was skunked but 'I'm here' fun session the stall speed on that foil is so low- so friendly. Glide on!

[@nicoduvivier1561]

Exactly like you said underneath 10 knots with the CWC 2, 7 qm isn’t worth the struggle 😊

[@OCEANBOUND1]

I def agree, at least with my gear. I just rode a bigger foil in light wind the other day, I actually got up in less wind than I’ve ever gotten up in, but the foil was hard to have fun on. Maybe in some small down-the-line kinda swell but there was no crazy carving or radical maneuvers happening. Fun starts OVER 12 knots or do.

[@wiepkejan]

Nice, thanks for sharing! I had a blast just now with my cwc 8 m. V2. With 10 knots on a lake in the netherlands. Hang loose!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Awesome, nothing like being out in the light stuff! I’m stoked to do the back-to-back battle with the two 8m versions. Seems like some people prefer the older one, so I wonder where I’ll land. Keep on winging bud and I wish you an awesome weekend!

[@wiepkejan]

@@OCEANBOUND1 love your positive vibe! I can imagine that the CWC V1 is more like the ultimate lightwind power monster and CWC V3 gives more upwind and speed performance.

[@dolcevitaspain9029]

I bought cwc 3 fone 6m and did not like it, feels heavy compared to strike 2. So I sold it and got a v2 much lighter and more fun, also handles v2 are slimer and more confortable

[@OCEANBOUND1]

I totally agree on all fronts. I'm going to stick with lighter wings for now on. The smaller v3's were great for my progression this past year but were way too heavy in general. They have a lot they can improve upon this year so I'm hopeful it will be a better wing. Maybe I'll be riding that Origin or a Swing. who knows!

[@marcoremia5602]

HI !!! Thanks for your test!! i'm 80 kg with my 8mt cwc 2 2400 72 cm mast and 300 cut tail i can go in foil with 7 kn.... for sure it is not my dream go with those conditions....but sometimes it is better then nothing.. I was soo excited for the new cwc 3...but i was stopped about the comments.. if i use the 8 it is because I need to go with ligth wind...and untill now i do not hear the cwc3 it is better for this.... so waiting for your comparison

[@OCEANBOUND1]

oh how I miss the 2400. that is def a way to go lower, and this particular sesh I rode the 925, thinking we'd have slightly more winds but the 1325 would have been the better bet. lessons learned. the back-to-back should be coming up in the next few weeks, it arrives on Sunday and I'll put it right to work as long as I have lighter winds! thanks bud, I wish you an awesome weekend!

[@martinomovies]

Maybe just get the 7m V1 on sale. I did. I love mine.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

right on bud! def on the table. more good stuff to come, as long as the winds are light enough, lol. I wish you an awesome weekend!!

[@aclarke9479]

Interesting video….looking forward to the Ventis review. I got my hands on one at a windless demo day so no water time but the wing looks great and feels great with the handles that I personally love. F -One seem to be losing traction as they hold onto the fabric soft handles, I have tried those down the beach and I would never buy an F One wing until they make some decent hard handles. IMO hard handles are superior in all aspects of riding pumping etc. F One have great products and I think if they did a hard handle wing it could be a game changer in the market, I know F One riders love their soft handles but its a hard no from me. They seem out of touch with where the sport is going……I might get it hard in the comments but thats my take. I ride Duotone Unit’s and they just work on all fronts. F One please make wings with hard handles if you read these comments!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

lol, I think we think in similar ways! I'm all about the hard handles. the current v3 handles on the smaller wings are fine, they are the best options so far and I can totally live with them. but for these larger wings... it's obvious that the hard handles are just better, the way to go. these F-One fans are very loud and passionate, but their arguments are getting thin as the whole industry moves to something harder. I love the brands like Airush and Duotone that have modular handles... I think a brand like FOne should offer both if they insist on keeping the soft ones. I love the Ventis btw, already had a session on it and it's great. the front handle is longer and you can ride powered one handed like a slick... totally sweet. more soon, I wish you an awesome week ahead wherever you are!

[@northyvids]

The issue with the Units though was aren't they a PITA to flag out and ride (as per prior video). I'm using v2 Strikes...I might go Swing next as I'm concerned about v3 low end I only want to ride lumps and waves and swell. The new Armstrong XPS also looks good though?!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@northyvids I just saw my first XPS the other day, indeed it looks great. reminds me of the strike or unit, super tight canopy. I don't think you can go wrong with that one. the new Swings will be interesting! I really hope to get on one soon and compare back-to-back with the Strike!

[@laser162003]

Is that kitermike holding a wing 👀

[@OCEANBOUND1]

hahaha why yes it is! my intern.

[@tdubmaui]

Wouldn’t it be better to get a proper light wind board (barracuda shape)? Then you don’t have to deal with huge wings.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

I still like riding big wings for some things. In general I like to ride with a lot of power in my hands. It’ll be a shift to go with smaller wings than I’m used to, totally curious how that will play out.

[@gerritraupach9059]

Great video! Have the 7 and 8 CWC v2 which pump perfect in light wind and excuse short strong wind moments on the lake. Handling is easy. If pumping obviously gets difficult with V3 (like v3 5 sqm is much more difficult to pump then v2), why chose it for light wind!? In light Wind i want to get out easy and fly, upwind performance has second ranking for me and no use if I don’t get out of the water…. Seems V3 wings are missing half a square meter compared to V2, but when flying they have better performance (Relevant in strong wind). Regards Gerrit, f one fan…(but expecting the cruzader 7 XL hardboard next week😮😊)

[@OCEANBOUND1]

thanks bud! and I totally agree with you about the light wind stuff. why go for a big v3 if it doesn't work in the same winds?!? I can say that I like riding powered up, and last year we were wing racing locally, and you'd think that Strike CWC 6m would have been amazing but they were pretty bad at pointing hard upwind. the flatter designs are def better at that, and I suspect that the FOne racers are pushing the development. so it brings up the question, what do you use them for? If I'm using for racing, then the new ones are appealing. just light wind, obvi the older ones are better. but what's good in the surf? that could be the deciding factor. I had not been up on the Gong universe lately, I didn't know about the Cruzader, but I just looked at them hard and def interested in a 6ft. The price is right. I wanna know what you think of yours! LMK!

[@snowpigpow]

Get yourself a long skinny board and you will no longer need to find the best 8m wing. The magic is real!

[@tom-foil]

That's true as well

[@solentfoiler5969]

I would also agree... Try and get a demo before you decide on the 8m...

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@snowpigpow oh man I want one. so bad. it's prolly the next thing on my list but I need to save $$. what size do you have? do you only use for winging?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@solentfoiler5969 right on, that's a great idea. thanks bud! I'm not ready to pull any triggers yet! what size is yours? wing only?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@bluemalkin rock on bud! I do like to ride juiced, another reason a 7m is more appealing than a huge 8m. its hard to keep up with this stuff. do you have a dw board? what size? wing only? taking notes...

[@youdigsurf]

Actually i think the contrary what mess the merging and cause jam is people merging at the last moment, you must go with the flow and merge where there is space. The issue with people merging at the last time there is alway this guy that try to force even if you let one guy merge in front of you.i wonder if there is study about it ,same goes for insertion , i will try to find out. Btw there is a new dilemna for you swing v3 with a longer trailing edge 😅 for the vision there handle seem straight and central bladder too , i heard that the best hard handle were those pistol handle. Ps: you were right about zipper merge, it’s seem to have been a debate for long time, apparently in some state they are starting to indicate when people should merge i do early merge then the lane merge is indicated tho, it’s surely the most efficient way when people are behaving in a smart manner which is totaly not the case in france 😅 people use emergency like to skip everybody else , force their way in etc. For me the smartest behavior i’ve seen on the road is probably in germany , that why they have no speed limit zone… give that to frenchman and they will f everything up.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

lol I love this comment! thanks for going there with the merging. I live in Massachusetts, where most around us call us Massholes due to our aggressive driving. I spent some time in Germany, and that's where the zipper merge really got slammed into my head. In general, most people I observed do that there, and it's so much quicker and efficient. if you wait till that last minute, no one can screw you. you can't really get ahead of anyone else, but you sleep easy knowing there was efficiency in the process. that particular situation in my video is well known to everyone around here, two lanes merging just before the Sagamore bridge and everyone tries to get into the left ("fast") lane cause it's easier. but that just makes the right lane so much faster. I'm getting a new 5.5m Swing sent to me soon, where there will be sessions of back-to-back demoing of the Swing and the Strike. I can't wait. right now it's appropriate to be testing light wind wings, cause that's all we have right now, light winds... But I'm stoked to do that Swing video! in the next few weeks it'll happen. Swing looks like a good design.